LTbear said:

---

Kyle said:

---

So far, 97 people have died. Each day, 102 people die in automobile accidents.

We're at least 15,000 deaths away from reaching H1N1 totals, and 20,000 away from annual influenza totals.

Was it worth it to destroy tens of millions of lives as well as our economy?

Was it worth it to try and win an election?

What will put a bigger strain on health care, 5,000 Wuhan Virus cases or a 20% unemployment rate?

---

I thought Republicans were the "pro-life" party?

---

The Democrats certainly celebrate Death in many forms, whether a baby or a career ...

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

The exponent models are looking more and more far fetched even as we see the rapid expansion of cases and deaths even in the most hard hit areas.

ATL Bear said:

---

The exponent models are looking more and more far fetched even as we see the rapid expansion of cases and deaths even in the most hard hit areas.

---

Because of the lack of testing we'll never know how many had it, and so we'll never know the actual US mortality rate. This will allow for plenty of 40-60 hindsight and "I told ya so".

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

So it's local and state officials' fault that their constituents are selfish and/or dumb?

Oldbear83 said:

---

LTbear said:

---

Kyle said:

---

So far, 97 people have died. Each day, 102 people die in automobile accidents.

We're at least 15,000 deaths away from reaching H1N1 totals, and 20,000 away from annual influenza totals.

Was it worth it to destroy tens of millions of lives as well as our economy?

Was it worth it to try and win an election?

What will put a bigger strain on health care, 5,000 Wuhan Virus cases or a 20% unemployment rate?

---

I thought Republicans were the "pro-life" party?

---

The Democrats certainly celebrate Death in many forms, whether a baby or a career ...

---

I don't like most of the Dems either. But hypocrisy is always worth pointing out.

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

So it's local and state officials fault that their constituents are selfish and/or dumb?

---

It's any official who issues a rule without a vote by the citizens, which costs everyone something and some their careers, without any prior consideration of the cost or personal commitment to share the cost themselves.

Just 2 years ago I was laid off from my job, so I know what it's like to lose your job through no fault of your own, and so I work hard to protect the jobs of my people. Some judge who never faced being laid off, being downsized or so on, is stone-faced to the cost of their decisions.

It may be necessary to have issued such orders, but how convenient that the people who make those decisions, whether judges or congressmen or politicians in general, do not take on the slightest cost to their own pain.

It's not about party either. I don't see any Republican donating half a year's salary to help those who lose their businesses or jobs, nor a single Democrat.

To my mind we need to remember that all of them have shown cowardice and personal greed. The 'best' of them make fine speeches, but not one of them has stepped up and put their own money behind their decision.

quash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

The exponent models are looking more and more far fetched even as we see the rapid expansion of cases and deaths even in the most hard hit areas.

---

Because of the lack of testing we'll never know how many had it, and so we'll never know the actual US mortality rate. This will allow for plenty of 40-60 hindsight and "I told ya so".

---

Agree. The problem I have is even adding a factor of ten to the trends still puts us way off from hitting even the low end of the models.

I'm sure new case counts are limited by testing, but deaths are likely close to reality. CNN right now has a headline about crossing a "deadly pandemic milestone" as we crossed 100 deaths in one day. While certainly tragic, in the scheme of mortality forecasting it's still a blip. Show me a day or 3-4 days that we jump from 100 deaths to 4,000 and then you have my greatest concern. In random environments like viral spread, you should/would see large jumps in data and swings. We've really not seen thus far any unexpected growth.

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

chuckle

Yeah 83

'Break it down ' for old Waco47. Give him a reason to stay awake for an hour or two . Jello time is a long way off .

---

That's all you got? Name calling -and demeaning? You got nothing. You're a coward not to post a rational argument that is open to criticism. I put out there for your verbal abuse. You are afraid.

---

Canada, being rational and a long time member, understands the inherent pointlessness of making much effort to refute your silliness.

Real life has reached a Colbert Report-level of satire.

Oldbear83 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

So it's local and state officials fault that their constituents are selfish and/or dumb?

---

It's any official who issues a rule without a vote by the citizens, which costs everyone something and some their careers, without any prior consideration of the cost or personal commitment to share the cost themselves.

Just 2 years ago I was laid off from my job, so I know what it's like to lose your job through no fault of your own, and so I work hard to protect the jobs of my people. Some judge who never faced being laid off, being downsized or so on, is stone-faced to the cost of their decisions.

It may be necessary to have issued such orders, but how convenient that the people who make those decisions, whether judges or congressmen or politicians in general, do not take on the slightest cost to their own pain.

It's not about party either. I don't see any Republican donating half a year's salary to help those who lose their businesses or jobs, nor a single Democrat.

To my mind we need to remember that all of them have shown cowardice and personal greed. The 'best' of them make fine speeches, but not one of them has stepped up and put their own money behind their decision.

---

You know that county judges and mayors are elected, right? They face being laid off every election, and that is when voters get their say, not on emergency declarations. We are not a 100% democracy. Yay.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

So it's local and state officials fault that their constituents are selfish and/or dumb?

---

It's any official who issues a rule without a vote by the citizens, which costs everyone something and some their careers, without any prior consideration of the cost or personal commitment to share the cost themselves.

Just 2 years ago I was laid off from my job, so I know what it's like to lose your job through no fault of your own, and so I work hard to protect the jobs of my people. Some judge who never faced being laid off, being downsized or so on, is stone-faced to the cost of their decisions.

It may be necessary to have issued such orders, but how convenient that the people who make those decisions, whether judges or congressmen or politicians in general, do not take on the slightest cost to their own pain.

It's not about party either. I don't see any Republican donating half a year's salary to help those who lose their businesses or jobs, nor a single Democrat.

To my mind we need to remember that all of them have shown cowardice and personal greed. The 'best' of them make fine speeches, but not one of them has stepped up and put their own money behind their decision.

---

You know that county judges and mayors are elected, right? They face being laid off every election, and that is when voters get their say, not on emergency declarations. We are not a 100% democracy. Yay.

---

I know that judges, like congressmen, do not impose on themselves the cost they levy on ordinary people who generally have far less in their bank accounts. I know that judges are commonly re-elected over and over, because voters seldom remember anyone below the level of POTUS or Governor.

And no, "laid off" does not fairly describe a judge who loses an election. Most people laid off do a fine job, but are simply thrown out by a bureaucracy. The same cannot be said of most judges who issue decrees; they are not to be confused with working judges who handle family law or criminal courts.

ATL Bear said:

---

The exponent models are looking more and more far fetched even as we see the rapid expansion of cases and deaths even in the most hard hit areas.

---

It's very interesting to debate the chances of exponential spread and all the factors that play into it.

Meanwhile the virus continues to spread exponentially.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

The exponent models are looking more and more far fetched even as we see the rapid expansion of cases and deaths even in the most hard hit areas.

---

It's very interesting to debate the chances of exponential spread and all the factors that play into it.

Meanwhile the virus continues to spread exponentially.

---

Incrementally, not exponentially.

Sigh.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

So it's local and state officials fault that their constituents are selfish and/or dumb?

---

It's any official who issues a rule without a vote by the citizens, which costs everyone something and some their careers, without any prior consideration of the cost or personal commitment to share the cost themselves.

Just 2 years ago I was laid off from my job, so I know what it's like to lose your job through no fault of your own, and so I work hard to protect the jobs of my people. Some judge who never faced being laid off, being downsized or so on, is stone-faced to the cost of their decisions.

It may be necessary to have issued such orders, but how convenient that the people who make those decisions, whether judges or congressmen or politicians in general, do not take on the slightest cost to their own pain.

It's not about party either. I don't see any Republican donating half a year's salary to help those who lose their businesses or jobs, nor a single Democrat.

To my mind we need to remember that all of them have shown cowardice and personal greed. The 'best' of them make fine speeches, but not one of them has stepped up and put their own money behind their decision.

---

You know that county judges and mayors are elected, right? They face being laid off every election, and that is when voters get their say, not on emergency declarations. We are not a 100% democracy. Yay.

---

I know that judges, like congressmen, do not impose on themselves the cost they levy on ordinary people who generally have far less in their bank accounts. I know that judges are commonly re-elected over and over, because voters seldom remember anyone below the level of POTUS or Governor.

And no, "laid off" does not fairly describe a judge who loses an election. Most people laid off do a fine job, but are simply thrown out by a bureaucracy. The same cannot be said of most judges who issue decrees; they are not to be confused with working judges who handle family law or criminal courts.

---

County judges are different. And they can get turned out just because a county flips parties. And they have to live with their decisions; unlike Coongress, where they exempt themselves from the laws of the hoi polloi.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

So it's local and state officials fault that their constituents are selfish and/or dumb?

---

It's any official who issues a rule without a vote by the citizens, which costs everyone something and some their careers, without any prior consideration of the cost or personal commitment to share the cost themselves.

Just 2 years ago I was laid off from my job, so I know what it's like to lose your job through no fault of your own, and so I work hard to protect the jobs of my people. Some judge who never faced being laid off, being downsized or so on, is stone-faced to the cost of their decisions.

It may be necessary to have issued such orders, but how convenient that the people who make those decisions, whether judges or congressmen or politicians in general, do not take on the slightest cost to their own pain.

It's not about party either. I don't see any Republican donating half a year's salary to help those who lose their businesses or jobs, nor a single Democrat.

To my mind we need to remember that all of them have shown cowardice and personal greed. The 'best' of them make fine speeches, but not one of them has stepped up and put their own money behind their decision.

---

You know that county judges and mayors are elected, right? They face being laid off every election, and that is when voters get their say, not on emergency declarations. We are not a 100% democracy. Yay.

---

I know that judges, like congressmen, do not impose on themselves the cost they levy on ordinary people who generally have far less in their bank accounts. I know that judges are commonly re-elected over and over, because voters seldom remember anyone below the level of POTUS or Governor.

And no, "laid off" does not fairly describe a judge who loses an election. Most people laid off do a fine job, but are simply thrown out by a bureaucracy. The same cannot be said of most judges who issue decrees; they are not to be confused with working judges who handle family law or criminal courts.

---

County judges are different. And they can get turned out just because a county flips parties. And they have to live with their decisions; unlike Coongress, where they exempt themselves from the laws of the hoi polloi.

---

Where I live people change spouses more often than county judges. Just one reason the lockdown orders came from county judges, always.

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

Those people disobeying are arrogant and selfish.

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

chuckle

Yeah 83

'Break it down ' for old Waco47. Give him a reason to stay awake for an hour or two . Jello time is a long way off .

---

That's all you got? Name calling -and demeaning? You got nothing. You're a coward not to post a rational argument that is open to criticism. I put out there for your verbal abuse. You are afraid.

---

Canada, being rational and a long time member, understands the inherent pointlessness of making much effort to refute your silliness.

---

Oh heck no. Canada does not "refute" rather he demeans and name calls. "Old fella take you pills and go to be," That's stupidity

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

chuckle

Yeah 83

'Break it down ' for old Waco47. Give him a reason to stay awake for an hour or two . Jello time is a long way off .

---

That's all you got? Name calling -and demeaning? You got nothing. You're a coward not to post a rational argument that is open to criticism. I put out there for your verbal abuse. You are afraid.

---

Canada, being rational and a long time member, understands the inherent pointlessness of making much effort to refute your silliness.

---

Quote:

---

I said said:
45 does and says stupid stuff and the media reports it. It is45's fault.

---

Canada response "chuckle"
Silliness. The media reports 45's stupidity and then 45 gets mad because point it out..Canada is not 'thoughtful."
He's ad homenin attackers.

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

Those people disobeying are arrogant and selfish.

---

You would know.

You were warned repeatedly that this could happen. Weeks, months, years, even decades in advance generally, and more recently to this specific exact sp threat. Acting then could have cost you pennies . You callously ignored every warning.

Worse, not even did you fail to act , even more unforgivably, you completely failed to prepare.

You learned ziltch, zero ,nothing from the 2008 financial crisis which blew up in a similar fashion.

You never saw that coming either. Now you're blaming us for the lockdowns because you have to deal with the consequences? Remind me again why I should care what you have to say? Was it worth it to YOU? You have noone to blame but yourself, why should we listen to you now?

I see Jupiter is channeling his inner Stalin.

Oldbear83 said:

---

I see Jupiter is channeling his inner Stalin.

---

you would know.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I see Jupiter is channeling his inner Stalin.

---

you would know.

---

Yes, I have been fighting Stalin types for a long time, I certainly recognize the behavior.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

Those people disobeying are arrogant and selfish.

---

You would know.

---

Quote:

---

.

---

Yes, he has been fighting arrogant and selfish types for a long time, He certainly recognizes the behavior.

This is fun!

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

Those people disobeying are arrogant and selfish.

---

You would know.

---

Quote:

---

.

---

Yes, he has been fighting arrogant and selfish types for a long time, He certainly recognizes the behavior.

This is fun!

---

You be you quash, and I will be honest, as I always am.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

---

Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

---

You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

---

Those people disobeying are arrogant and selfish.

---

You would know.

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Quote:

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.

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Yes, he has been fighting arrogant and selfish types for a long time, He certainly recognizes the behavior.

This is fun!

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You be you quash, and I will be honest, as I always am.

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That's certainly how you do you: spotting all those lies.

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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My gut tells me that, necessary as it may be, having county judges issue the shut-down orders is an act of political cowardice which will backfire.

People who pay no personal cost for such decisions should not be in charge of those decisions.

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Actually it is an act of political courage that governors and local leaders have to take. Because frankly no one above that level is leading at all.

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You say so, I see different.

Time will tell.

But I pay attention to what people say and do, and already there are some restaurants serving seated patrons in defiance of the ban here in Harris County, and already there are people ignoring shelter-in-place orders in California and Pennsylvania, because the Governors in those places are great in front of TV cameras, but lousy at really understanding what their orders cost regular people.

Not saying I agree with the defiance - I am self-quarantining for 2 weeks because my wife was in Hong Kong caring for her mother, but like I said I look and I listen and it's easy to issue edicts like you are some kind of King, and not make provision for the cost to ordinary people. There is going to be push-back, and that will have its own effect on the virus spread and consequences.

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Those people disobeying are arrogant and selfish.

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You would know.

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Quote:

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.

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Yes, he has been fighting arrogant and selfish types for a long time, He certainly recognizes the behavior.

This is fun!

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You be you quash, and I will be honest, as I always am.

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Not to defend quash, but it's possible he's not purposely telling lies. He seems to not know the difference in his opinion vs fact.

Like all the other wacky libbies, quash sees what he believes instead of the other way around

Waco1947 said:

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curtpenn said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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chuckle

Yeah 83

'Break it down ' for old Waco47. Give him a reason to stay awake for an hour or two . Jello time is a long way off .

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That's all you got? Name calling -and demeaning? You got nothing. You're a coward not to post a rational argument that is open to criticism. I put out there for your verbal abuse. You are afraid.

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Canada, being rational and a long time member, understands the inherent pointlessness of making much effort to refute your silliness.

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Quote:

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I said said:
45 does and says stupid stuff and the media reports it. It is45's fault.

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Canada response "chuckle"
Silliness. The media reports 45's stupidity and then 45 gets mad because point it out..Canada is not 'thoughtful."
He's ad homenin attackers.

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Old fella...let me explain it to you. ( wipe the breakfast crumbs off your glasses and put them on )

A. Half your posts are illegible .... after years of reading such confusion it is no longer worth my time to interpret your intent .

B. You misspell words frequently and your grammar is often garbled . After years of this any rational individual would say " Hey, I need to PROOF my post. " But you don't.....because you are not rational . Doubt you are fully lucid more than 3 or 4 hours a day .

C. Most of what you post is in the obvious attempt to be noticed. A lonely guy like you will often attempt to generate negative attention....if that is his only available option.

D. A meaningful exchange of ideas with you is simply impossible. Have watched at least three dozen individuals attempt it with you over the years.......always the same bizarre, fruitless mess.

Now will any of this actually penetrate your medically induced fog ?

Not a chance in the world.

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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The exponent models are looking more and more far fetched even as we see the rapid expansion of cases and deaths even in the most hard hit areas.

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It's very interesting to debate the chances of exponential spread and all the factors that play into it.

Meanwhile the virus continues to spread exponentially.

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Incrementally, not exponentially.

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Exactly. My frustration with the modeling / predictions are:

1. Governments are responding with draconian measures regardless of actual local impact, pointing to worst case. A sophisticated reaction would be more of a step response. But we're in "monkey see, monkey do" land. But as quash noted, if you under-react, you lose. If you over-react, you can alway play the "if I didn't then millions would have died and we never know how bad it would have been."

2. The models are shockingly unsophisticated. Forecasters pick some assumptions and put them in relatively simple models. They are not great at accounting for diversity around density, climate, population demographics, social determinants of health, socioeconomic factors, etc. So if you take the worst inputs from the worst situation and simply change the denominator, your doomsday numerator frightens.

3. The model certainly cannot account for things like "Kiss a Chinaman" day that supposedly occurred in Italy, which I'm sure helped slow the spread of the virus.

The virus is spreading but not at an alarming rate across the country. Sure, there are dense areas where there is rapid spread, and shockingly areas with high Chinese populations were hit harder first, especially on the coasts where there is more international travel. None of that should surprise anyone.

Absolutely fascinating.

Meanwhile the virus continues to spread exponentially.

Sam Lowry said:

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Absolutely fascinating.

Meanwhile the virus continues to spread exponentially.

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Hold on...February 2021 is a long way off.