Waco1947 said:

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Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt

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And yet, here you've been trashing a person - Trump.

HashTag said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt

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And yet, here you've been trashing a person - Trump.

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Focus on positives is a rare quality to see

(category 1)

Bearitto said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Bearitto said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt

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So you are now talking about Eleanor Roosevelt. Ha!

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Notice the small minds who discuss me and not the ideas. You rank up there in smallness

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Now you are discussing me. Ha!

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You asked me. I answered.

Waco1947 said:

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Bearitto said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Bearitto said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt

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So you are now talking about Eleanor Roosevelt. Ha!

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Notice the small minds who discuss me and not the ideas. You rank up there in smallness

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Now you are discussing me. Ha!

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You asked me. I answered.

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And in consistently petty manner, Waco. You don't even see that your own quote condemns you.

Waco1947 said:

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Bearitto said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Bearitto said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt

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So you are now talking about Eleanor Roosevelt. Ha!

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Notice the small minds who discuss me and not the ideas. You rank up there in smallness

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Now you are discussing me. Ha!

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You asked me. I answered.

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I didn't ask you anything. But I will now. Why are you lying?

Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

Bearito "So you are now talking about Eleanor Roosevelt.". There is a question. You left off the "??"

Waco1947 said:

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Bearito "So you are now talking about Eleanor Roosevelt.". There is a question. You left off the "??"

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If it had been a question, I'd have asked it. Stop lying.

Username checks out said:

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Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

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I think he has done okay. In a crisis (when looking in hindsight) there are always things that could have been done better.

I have been impressed with the individuals that have stepped up to contribute. Some of the billionaires that Bernie has been attacking as if they are enemies of the USA have contributed medical supplies and food in an unselfish manner. I have one high school friend that had some apartments and he told the management company to not collect rent for April and May. The challenge of getting through this crisis is a team effort and should not be used as a blame game for politics.

Username checks out said:

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Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

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Trump's performance is mostly irrelevant. This is not his fault, it is on his watch, two different things. The CDC has made missteps, which I predicted early on, but there's not much room for the president to do anything about that.

He has made some ridiculous statements along the way but that's part for the course with this guy.

quash said:

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Username checks out said:

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Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

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Trump's performance is mostly irrelevant. This is not his fault, it is on his watch, two different things. The CDC has made missteps, which I predicted early on, but there's not much room for the president to do anything about that.

He has made some ridiculous statements along the way but that's part for the course with this guy.

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Thanks for the thoughtful response. Agree with opinion on his statements. Do you think his daily pressers are having any effect, good or bad? My take is that we might has well have a surrogate give them for how little he's contributing.

Username checks out said:

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quash said:

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Username checks out said:

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Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

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Trump's performance is mostly irrelevant. This is not his fault, it is on his watch, two different things. The CDC has made missteps, which I predicted early on, but there's not much room for the president to do anything about that.

He has made some ridiculous statements along the way but that's part for the course with this guy.

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Thanks for the thoughtful response. Agree with opinion on his statements. Do you think his daily pressers are having any effect, good or bad? My take is that we might has well have a surrogate give them for how little he's contributing.

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Let me guess. You didn't like Trump before the pandemic and you won't him like after the pandemic.

Username checks out said:

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quash said:

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Username checks out said:

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Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

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Trump's performance is mostly irrelevant. This is not his fault, it is on his watch, two different things. The CDC has made missteps, which I predicted early on, but there's not much room for the president to do anything about that.

He has made some ridiculous statements along the way but that's part for the course with this guy.

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Thanks for the thoughtful response. Agree with opinion on his statements. Do you think his daily pressers are having any effect, good or bad? My take is that we might has well have a surrogate give them for how little he's contributing.

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You're just repeating the latest Talking Points - CNN and MSNBC want to stop covering because it might help his election prospects. Can't make this stuff up - middle of a pandemic, and the press is worried about playing politics than informing the American people.

Don't bother with "surrogate" meme - the wingnut libtards have 5K posts about Trump and Kung Flu.

Username checks out said:

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quash said:

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Username checks out said:

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Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

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Trump's performance is mostly irrelevant. This is not his fault, it is on his watch, two different things. The CDC has made missteps, which I predicted early on, but there's not much room for the president to do anything about that.

He has made some ridiculous statements along the way but that's part for the course with this guy.

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Thanks for the thoughtful response. Agree with opinion on his statements. Do you think his daily pressers are having any effect, good or bad? My take is that we might has well have a surrogate give them for how little he's contributing.

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I couldn't say. You're new around here but I have said many times I don't watch network news. Too many hot takes, too much opinion mixed in. I prefer long form reporting on almost everything.

The exception is disaster type reporting. I used to switch from Shep Smith on Fox to HNN, but was told recently that Shep is gone.

One problem I have with the daily briefings is that they are daily. Some days there's simply nothing worth reporting on. When there is I hear about it or read about it somewhere else. No reason to push two hours of actual news off the air.

As to a surrogate, no. The president doesn't need to appear daily so there's no need for a surrogate, either. When there is something both new and significant trot out the appropriate department head. If it's really big hold a presidential presser.

But not daily.

quash said:

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Username checks out said:

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quash said:

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Username checks out said:

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Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

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Trump's performance is mostly irrelevant. This is not his fault, it is on his watch, two different things. The CDC has made missteps, which I predicted early on, but there's not much room for the president to do anything about that.

He has made some ridiculous statements along the way but that's part for the course with this guy.

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Thanks for the thoughtful response. Agree with opinion on his statements. Do you think his daily pressers are having any effect, good or bad? My take is that we might has well have a surrogate give them for how little he's contributing.

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I couldn't say. You're new around here but I have said many times I don't watch network news. Too many hot takes, too much opinion mixed in. I prefer long form reporting on almost everything.

The exception is disaster type reporting. I used to switch from Shep Smith on Fox to HNN, but was told recently that Shep is gone.

One problem I have with the daily briefings is that they are daily. Some days there's simply nothing worth reporting on. When there is I hear about it or read about it somewhere else. No reason to push two hours of actual news off the air.

As to a surrogate, no. The president doesn't need to appear daily so there's no need for a surrogate, either. When there is something both new and significant trot out the appropriate department head. If it's really big hold a presidential presser.

But not daily.

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I like it daily, at least during this time (the worst 2 weeks).

Trump does better when he makes a BRIEF statement and introduces Fauci/Birx/Pence. He shouldn't attack the press, no matter how stupid or insulting they are (fat chance)

Osodecentx said:

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quash said:

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Username checks out said:

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quash said:

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Username checks out said:

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Skimmed the thread. Are there actually people out there that appove of Trump's performance in this crisis?

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Trump's performance is mostly irrelevant. This is not his fault, it is on his watch, two different things. The CDC has made missteps, which I predicted early on, but there's not much room for the president to do anything about that.

He has made some ridiculous statements along the way but that's part for the course with this guy.

---

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Agree with opinion on his statements. Do you think his daily pressers are having any effect, good or bad? My take is that we might has well have a surrogate give them for how little he's contributing.

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I couldn't say. You're new around here but I have said many times I don't watch network news. Too many hot takes, too much opinion mixed in. I prefer long form reporting on almost everything.

The exception is disaster type reporting. I used to switch from Shep Smith on Fox to HNN, but was told recently that Shep is gone.

One problem I have with the daily briefings is that they are daily. Some days there's simply nothing worth reporting on. When there is I hear about it or read about it somewhere else. No reason to push two hours of actual news off the air.

As to a surrogate, no. The president doesn't need to appear daily so there's no need for a surrogate, either. When there is something both new and significant trot out the appropriate department head. If it's really big hold a presidential presser.

But not daily.

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I like it daily, at least during this time (the worst 2 weeks).

Trump does better when he makes a BRIEF statement and introduces Fauci/Birx/Pence. He shouldn't attack the press, no matter how stupid or insulting they are (fat chance)

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Ann Miller taught us that "less is more."

Before the media decided Trump was worth every hour of every day we used to get him in smaller chunks. That Trump was charming and often even thoughtful.

This will never happen but Trump should try the "less is more" approach. It would starve certain media outlets of their daily bleah.

Kyle said:

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So far, 97 people have died. Each day, 102 people die in automobile accidents.

We're at least 15,000 deaths away from reaching H1N1 totals, and 20,000 away from annual influenza totals.

Was it worth it to destroy tens of millions of lives as well as our economy?

Was it worth it to try and win an election? What???

What will put a bigger strain on health care, 5,000 Wuhan Virus cases or a 20% unemployment rate?

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Yes, it is worth it.

For every death from Kung Flu, 1,215 people have lost their jobs due to the hysteria.

That's a lot of people without access to health insurance, health care, and at significant risk to lose their homes and struggle to feed their kids.

Kyle said:

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For every death from Kung Flu, 1,215 people have lost their jobs due to the hysteria.

That's a lot of people without access to health insurance, health care, and at significant risk to lose their homes and struggle to feed their kids.

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Folks have not lost their jobs due to hysteria, you dolt.

They've lost their jobs due to an act of God that would have very likely killed millions if America hadn't enacted the same strong containment measures that virtually every country in the world has.

Anyone that can look at what's happened in Italy, Spain and New York and still think a burn through/herd immunity plan was a viable option is a science-denying moron, and there is no kinder way I can say that.

bear2be2 said:

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Kyle said:

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For every death from Kung Flu, 1,215 people have lost their jobs due to the hysteria.

That's a lot of people without access to health insurance, health care, and at significant risk to lose their homes and struggle to feed their kids.

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Folks have not lost their jobs due to hysteria, you dolt.

They've lost their jobs due to an act of God that would have very likely killed millions if America hadn't enacted the same strong containment measures that virtually every country in the world has.

Anyone that can look at what's happened in Italy, Spain and New York and still think a burn through/herd immunity plan was a viable option is a science-denying moron, and there is no kinder way I can say that.

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Yep, it was real stupid for pelosi to tell people to go to China Town, Cuomo tell people to go out and eat, Biden accusing Trump of Xenophobia, the Washington Post telling it's readers that the flu is a much bigger threat, Schiff and Schumer wasting time on a BS impeachment, Pelosi trying to slide left wing pork into a stimulus package...

Yep, if those idiots would've taken the threat seriously when Trump declared a public health emergency and restricted China travel... maybe we would have lower infection numbers.

Kyle said:

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For every death from Kung Flu, 1,215 people have lost their jobs due to the hysteria.

That's a lot of people without access to health insurance, health care, and at significant risk to lose their homes and struggle to feed their kids.

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I understand the point you are trying to make. But it has a major flaw. You also need to compare to what that result would have been had the schools, cities, states and, to a lesser extent the federal government, not taken the steps that have been taken. At the same time, I am not sure you could calculate that result, which is why we have had the abundance of caution. Or as you call it, the hysteria.

My bad. Unemployment numbers higher than expected. For every Kung Flu death, 1,302 people have lost their jobs.

The problem with the "what would have happened if we did not destroy the economy" is a problematic because every single prediction about the pandemic has been wrong by an exponential factor.

And, we still have not reached to total deaths from H1N1. How long were we in quarantine? When did we start? I cannot remember because it has been so long, but you probably know.

Kyle said:

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My bad. Unemployment numbers higher than expected. For every Kung Flu death, 1,302 people have lost their jobs.

The problem with the "what would have happened if we did not destroy the economy" is a problematic because every single prediction about the pandemic has been wrong by an exponential factor.

And, we still have not reached to total deaths from H1N1. How long were we in quarantine? When did we start? I cannot remember because it has been so long, but you probably know.

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We'll reach that number (17k) by midday tomorrow, we'll probably be at double that number by Tuesday or Wednesday, and no amount of your incessant whining will stop it.

HashTag said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Kyle said:

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For every death from Kung Flu, 1,215 people have lost their jobs due to the hysteria.

That's a lot of people without access to health insurance, health care, and at significant risk to lose their homes and struggle to feed their kids.

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Folks have not lost their jobs due to hysteria, you dolt.

They've lost their jobs due to an act of God that would have very likely killed millions if America hadn't enacted the same strong containment measures that virtually every country in the world has.

Anyone that can look at what's happened in Italy, Spain and New York and still think a burn through/herd immunity plan was a viable option is a science-denying moron, and there is no kinder way I can say that.

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Yep, if those idiots would've taken the threat seriously when Trump declared a public health emergency and restricted China travel... maybe we would have lower infection numbers.

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Too bad our president wasn't strong enough to ignore the idiots, eh? Pretty sure all 33 times Trump downplayed the Kung Flu he was doing so to be more downplayier than the Dems.

Kyle said:

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The problem with the "what would have happened if we did not destroy the economy" is a problematic because every single prediction about the pandemic has been wrong by an exponential factor.

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Flat out wrong.

Models work based on which factors are used, how much weight is given, etc. "Given these conditions... we can expect..." Many of the models I saw, when graphed, had at least three lines projected based on the data they were using. Guess what? Even if one line was point for point correct people could still charge them with being wrong.

And here you are.

quash said:

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HashTag said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Kyle said:

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For every death from Kung Flu, 1,215 people have lost their jobs due to the hysteria.

That's a lot of people without access to health insurance, health care, and at significant risk to lose their homes and struggle to feed their kids.

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Folks have not lost their jobs due to hysteria, you dolt.

They've lost their jobs due to an act of God that would have very likely killed millions if America hadn't enacted the same strong containment measures that virtually every country in the world has.

Anyone that can look at what's happened in Italy, Spain and New York and still think a burn through/herd immunity plan was a viable option is a science-denying moron, and there is no kinder way I can say that.

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Yep, if those idiots would've taken the threat seriously when Trump declared a public health emergency and restricted China travel... maybe we would have lower infection numbers.

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Too bad our president wasn't strong enough to ignore the idiots, eh? Pretty sure all 33 times Trump downplayed the Kung Flu he was doing so to be more downplayier than the Dems.

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Actually he did you blind bat.... he formed coronavirus task force, has worked with manufacturing companies to make ventilators and masks, declared a national health emergency to open funds from federal, has held 2 hour (or longer) press conferences every damn day to keep the public informed and answering bs questions from reporters that hate him....

You're just being a political jack off. Hell, schiff and pelosi are more concerned with another BS committee to start another BS investigation.

Time for you to grow up squash

quash said:

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Kyle said:

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The problem with the "what would have happened if we did not destroy the economy" is a problematic because every single prediction about the pandemic has been wrong by an exponential factor.

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Flat out wrong.

Models work based on which factors are used, how much weight is given, etc. "Given these conditions... we can expect..." Many of the models I saw, when graphed, had at least three lines projected based on the data they were using. Guess what? Even if one line was point for point correct people could still charge them with being wrong.

And here you are.

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We always knew the actual results would be used by one side or the other as proof of their starting assumptions. Deaths are below projections, so some people say that means we over-reacted, but if they had been greater than expected, others would say that meant we "did not take it seriously".

I see it like a car wreck. No one wanted it, there's not much you can do once it is happening to you but hold and hope for the best,

And remember the people you could depend on when it mattered most. Everything else is details.

HashTag said:

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quash said:

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HashTag said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Kyle said:

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For every death from Kung Flu, 1,215 people have lost their jobs due to the hysteria.

That's a lot of people without access to health insurance, health care, and at significant risk to lose their homes and struggle to feed their kids.

---

Folks have not lost their jobs due to hysteria, you dolt.

They've lost their jobs due to an act of God that would have very likely killed millions if America hadn't enacted the same strong containment measures that virtually every country in the world has.

Anyone that can look at what's happened in Italy, Spain and New York and still think a burn through/herd immunity plan was a viable option is a science-denying moron, and there is no kinder way I can say that.

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Yep, if those idiots would've taken the threat seriously when Trump declared a public health emergency and restricted China travel... maybe we would have lower infection numbers.

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Too bad our president wasn't strong enough to ignore the idiots, eh? Pretty sure all 33 times Trump downplayed the Kung Flu he was doing so to be more downplayier than the Dems.

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Actually he did you blind bat.... he formed coronavirus task force, has worked with manufacturing companies to make ventilators and masks, declared a national health emergency to open funds from federal, has held 2 hour (or longer) press conferences every damn day to keep the public informed and answering bs questions from reporters that hate him....

You're just being a political jack off. Hell, schiff and pelosi are more concerned with another BS committee to start another BS investigation.

Time for you to grow up squash

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Both of you are being political jackoffs in this thread by playing the same silly blame game that goes on in every other thread on this board.

The fact is politicians on both sides of the political aisle were caught off guard here and several did and said some really dumb things I'm sure they really regret.

But I don't blame people for being wrong early. This is a novel virus, and even the scientists needed some time to wrap their heads around what we're dealing with. I do, however, blame those who have elected to remain wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence. Those people are the real problem.

Nice virtue signalling there, bear2be2

And way to play the hypocrite-but-hiding-it by throwing blame just seconds after admitting the people making decisions did so with incomplete information, and with the recognition that the 'experts' were wrong in their own initial projections.

Oldbear83 said:

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Nice virtue signalling there, bear2be2

And way to play the hypocrite-but-hiding-it by throwing blame just seconds after admitting the people making decisions did so with incomplete information, and with the recognition that the 'experts' were wrong in their own initial projections.

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What are you babbling about? Unless you're one of the science-denying dip****s I'm talking about, and your butthurt protestations to every post I make make me wonder, move on. And if you are one of those clowns, debate the content of my post.

I'd love to see you defend the logic of ignoring data to avoid having to admit you were wrong and spreading wrong-headed nonsense that's now been proven to be such.

bear2be2 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Nice virtue signalling there, bear2be2

And way to play the hypocrite-but-hiding-it by throwing blame just seconds after admitting the people making decisions did so with incomplete information, and with the recognition that the 'experts' were wrong in their own initial projections.

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What are you babbling about? Unless you're one of the science-denying dip****s I'm talking about, and your butthurt protestations to every post I make make me wonder, move on. And if you are one of those clowns, debate the content of my post.

I'd love to see you defend the logic of ignoring data to avoid having to admit you were wrong and spreading wrong-headed nonsense that's now been proven to be such.

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You are a damned hypocrite, just as bad as the people you attack, but you want to sell yourself as an objective observer.

The mask don't fit, mister.

Yes, I'm partisan, but I go after both sides when I see something really out of line, excepting the ones who ignore any attempt at reason - it just wastes effort trying to reason with a mad dog.

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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Kyle said:

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The problem with the "what would have happened if we did not destroy the economy" is a problematic because every single prediction about the pandemic has been wrong by an exponential factor.

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Flat out wrong.

Models work based on which factors are used, how much weight is given, etc. "Given these conditions... we can expect..." Many of the models I saw, when graphed, had at least three lines projected based on the data they were using. Guess what? Even if one line was point for point correct people could still charge them with being wrong.

And here you are.

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We always knew the actual results would be used by one side or the other as proof of their starting assumptions. Deaths are below projections, so some people say that means we over-reacted, but if they had been greater than expected, others would say that meant we "did not take it seriously".

I see it like a car wreck. No one wanted it, there's not much you can do once it is happening to you but hold and hope for the best,

And remember the people you could depend on when it mattered most. Everything else is details.

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As I ponder the many sides of this situation, this is one I cannot really wrap my head around. I acknowledge I don't have a great alternative or answer.

Experts make doomsday predictions. Nations react based on those predictions. Turns out, predictions and experts very wrong. Excuse is well if we had not done anything maybe our predictions would have been true. In this case, those same experts were telling us it is not big deal the month before.

How does a leader make an optimal decision and hold experts accountable for their predictions? In corporate American, expert gets fired. In academia / government, you revise the prediction.

Again, I don't have a great solution. I would advise us all to be skeptical when experts give us doomsday scenarios where Wuhan Virus, global warming, etc.

Predictions weren't 'wrong'.

Social distancing is working .

15,800+ deaths so far. Could have been much higher.

I'd say yes.