TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

We all know what he means by "socialists."

BLM is "socialism". Anyone not like him = "socialists."

Socialists don't have one job, they usually have 3 or 4, that's why they wants socialism, because capitalism has only ever screwed them over.

There is an entire economy built around keeping poor people poor. If you don't know that, then you're not paying attention. I escaped it by pure luck and an insane amount of blessings. I know people who had more talent and who work harder than I do and have half as much to show for it.

But anyone who has read his posts knows he's racist. It's a decent idea to type it out every now and again.

I forget how soft old white men who have been sniffing their own farts for so long they think they weren't born on third can be.

---

Because of people like you, the word racist no longer has any meaning. And apparently only black people are poor. You and Waco1947 are two of the most hateful white men (towards white men) I have ever encountered in my 57 years of life. You should just be happy to be here!

---

Yes, it's always fun to hear old white guys blame others for "ruining" racism.

Let's be honest, it never meant anything to an old turd like you.

Add this to the warehouses of things you don't understand: I don't hate you. I pity you. I truly feel sad for you. You lack of introspection means you miss out on a chance to do a lot of good in the world. If I hated you, or even worse, if I was indifferent to you, I wouldn't bother with you.

---

Why am I required to do good for the world?

---

I'm not at all surprised you would ask that question.

---

Answer it.

Why am I required to perform service for others? Why am I required to worsen my own livelihood for equity?

---

I thought you were a champion of Jesus NT teachings? "Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." You don't believe that part, I guess.

---

Context. What Jesus said before that part you quoted was "If you would be perfect", meaning Jesus was warning that on our own strength we cannot be perfect.

There is a strong difference between a requirement and a virtue.


You don't believe that part, I guess.

---

'That part's' not written there. So, in effect you're excusing not making an effort to live a virtuous life. If that's not what you are saying, then why shouldn't Doc follow Jesus reported statement and live a virtuous life without relying on his own strength. Of course, I guess you could say we don't know what Jesus really said.

---

Thanks, but I will go by the testimony of the Apostles. First-hand witnesses matter to me.

And if you bother to read all sixty-six books of the Bible, you will learn that the appropriate action differ according to the situation. Scripture also tells us that Jesus rebuked Judas for complaining about the cost of the oil Mary poured on Jesus' head, as Judas claimed it was better used to help the poor.

Many people seem to be like Judas, so sure of their own wisdom they have no attention to spare for God.

---

1. You don't have testimony from the Apostles. Only much later written accounts of oral stories. 2. You just demonstrated the inconsistency and contradictions in the NT. 3. The overall theme of the stories about Jesus teaching is one of empathy for others. You can't ingore that for convenience of an argument.

---

Your rant demonstrates only your bias against Scripture.

And no, those are not 'inconsistent' or 'contradictory', you seem to think so because they do not say what you want them to say. Hence my reminder that Judas did the same thing.

I will fall back on two thousand years of scholarly evidence from men and women of faith. You may depend on your pride.

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe, I'm just following the logic.

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

We all know what he means by "socialists."

BLM is "socialism". Anyone not like him = "socialists."

Socialists don't have one job, they usually have 3 or 4, that's why they wants socialism, because capitalism has only ever screwed them over.

There is an entire economy built around keeping poor people poor. If you don't know that, then you're not paying attention. I escaped it by pure luck and an insane amount of blessings. I know people who had more talent and who work harder than I do and have half as much to show for it.

But anyone who has read his posts knows he's racist. It's a decent idea to type it out every now and again.

I forget how soft old white men who have been sniffing their own farts for so long they think they weren't born on third can be.

---

Because of people like you, the word racist no longer has any meaning. And apparently only black people are poor. You and Waco1947 are two of the most hateful white men (towards white men) I have ever encountered in my 57 years of life. You should just be happy to be here!

---

Yes, it's always fun to hear old white guys blame others for "ruining" racism.

Let's be honest, it never meant anything to an old turd like you.

Add this to the warehouses of things you don't understand: I don't hate you. I pity you. I truly feel sad for you. You lack of introspection means you miss out on a chance to do a lot of good in the world. If I hated you, or even worse, if I was indifferent to you, I wouldn't bother with you.

---

Why am I required to do good for the world?

---

I'm not at all surprised you would ask that question.

---

Answer it.

Why am I required to perform service for others? Why am I required to worsen my own livelihood for equity?

---

I thought you were a champion of Jesus NT teachings? "Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." You don't believe that part, I guess.

---

To answer the original question: I find your idea of welfare to be enabling bad behavior for humanity resulting in a net loss of equity over time.

I want to help people help themselves and solve the problem. I don't want bandaids.

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

"There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others."

So you disagree with Nietsche? You disagree with Freud?

Oldbear83 said:

---

"There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others."

So you disagree with Nietsche? You disagree with Freud?

---

I disagree with a lot of people, but usually in the context of a specific position. I don't disagree with everything Nietsche ever said.

Care to be more specific?

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

Nonsense. We're not here by accident. We're here by natural processes. Things matter because we have determined they matter, either through an evolutionary process that allowed for formulation of religion to answer those questions, and now we have evolved beyond the need for superstition and mysticism to understand why things matter. You don't have to have religion to explain the unknown and understand why things matter.

I don't want to force others to equalize humanity. Do you give money or assistance to your church, and through them or directly to those in need? Do you not recognize there those who are less fortunate through no fault of their own? Do you not recognize that without some minimal social safety net and cooperative effort there will be chaos a world of 8 billion? As Jesus reportedly said, For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also?

You say you have plenty of empathy. Show it.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

We all know what he means by "socialists."

BLM is "socialism". Anyone not like him = "socialists."

Socialists don't have one job, they usually have 3 or 4, that's why they wants socialism, because capitalism has only ever screwed them over.

There is an entire economy built around keeping poor people poor. If you don't know that, then you're not paying attention. I escaped it by pure luck and an insane amount of blessings. I know people who had more talent and who work harder than I do and have half as much to show for it.

But anyone who has read his posts knows he's racist. It's a decent idea to type it out every now and again.

I forget how soft old white men who have been sniffing their own farts for so long they think they weren't born on third can be.

---

Because of people like you, the word racist no longer has any meaning. And apparently only black people are poor. You and Waco1947 are two of the most hateful white men (towards white men) I have ever encountered in my 57 years of life. You should just be happy to be here!

---

Yes, it's always fun to hear old white guys blame others for "ruining" racism.

Let's be honest, it never meant anything to an old turd like you.

Add this to the warehouses of things you don't understand: I don't hate you. I pity you. I truly feel sad for you. You lack of introspection means you miss out on a chance to do a lot of good in the world. If I hated you, or even worse, if I was indifferent to you, I wouldn't bother with you.

---

Why am I required to do good for the world?

---

I'm not at all surprised you would ask that question.

---

Answer it.

Why am I required to perform service for others? Why am I required to worsen my own livelihood for equity?

---

I thought you were a champion of Jesus NT teachings? "Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." You don't believe that part, I guess.

---

Context. What Jesus said before that part you quoted was "If you would be perfect", meaning Jesus was warning that on our own strength we cannot be perfect.

There is a strong difference between a requirement and a virtue.


You don't believe that part, I guess.

---

'That part's' not written there. So, in effect you're excusing not making an effort to live a virtuous life. If that's not what you are saying, then why shouldn't Doc follow Jesus reported statement and live a virtuous life without relying on his own strength. Of course, I guess you could say we don't know what Jesus really said.

---

Thanks, but I will go by the testimony of the Apostles. First-hand witnesses matter to me.

And if you bother to read all sixty-six books of the Bible, you will learn that the appropriate action differ according to the situation. Scripture also tells us that Jesus rebuked Judas for complaining about the cost of the oil Mary poured on Jesus' head, as Judas claimed it was better used to help the poor.

Many people seem to be like Judas, so sure of their own wisdom they have no attention to spare for God.

---

1. You don't have testimony from the Apostles. Only much later written accounts of oral stories. 2. You just demonstrated the inconsistency and contradictions in the NT. 3. The overall theme of the stories about Jesus teaching is one of empathy for others. You can't ingore that for convenience of an argument.

---

Your rant demonstrates only your bias against Scripture.

And no, those are not 'inconsistent' or 'contradictory', you seem to think so because they do not say what you want them to say. Hence my reminder that Judas did the same thing.

I will fall back on two thousand years of scholarly evidence from men and women of faith. You may depend on your pride.

---

Your rant demonstrates only your bias against Scripture.
I have not bias. I recognize it for what it is.

And no, those are not 'inconsistent' or 'contradictory', you seem to think so because they do not say what you want them to say. Hence my reminder that Judas did the same thing.
It's inconsistent and contradictory for precisely for what it says. You need to retake your Baylor OT and NT courses. They will tell you as much. It's where I first heard that the Bible is full of contradictions. At least the Religion Department is honest enough to admit that, or at least was when I was there. It's where I first began to seriously question what this was all about.

I will fall back on two thousand years of scholarly evidence from men and women of faith. You may depend on your pride. Rather, consider if you would be better served to break away from the ignorance of 2000 years ago, and the intervening years of clergy self interests in developing and maintaining a religious institution born out of human ignorance and propensity to mysticism for understanding the unknown.

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

You and I both wait for the act, not the threat, to discuss it. When the attempt is made we can talk.

Also, as noted above, I have often discussed SCOTUS opinions. The Democrats hate the result in Citizens United and I have always said it was a First Amendment two-fer for speech and association; while I like the outcome my focus has consistently been on the reasoning to reach it. Naturally, that makes me a Democrat lapdog...

---

I'm reconsidering my position on Citizens United. $800 million has been spent in the Georgia senate contest. This is out of balance. Free speech for an individual is admirable. However, when one person gives $100 million it drowns out the individual's freedom to speak. A West Texas oil man funded a state senate contest for the Teea Party.
I'm rethinking it. Something is out of balance

---

What's out of balance is the number of things being purchased, not the price being paid.

If we limited our government in a meaningful way then there wouldn't be any value in a Senate or House race. Make taxes simple with no deductions. Leave most regulating to the states. Shrink the military to homeland defense, not empire defense, etc. When there's nothing to gain personally from government then the price goes waaaay down. Added bonus: more public servants, less politicians.

---

At least on this, we agree. Yeah, I'm basically a Libertarian in many ways still. Lol.

I heartily accept the motto,"That government is best which governs least;" and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which I also believe,"That government is best which governs not at all;" and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have. Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient.

Thoreau, Civil Disobedience

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

Oldbear83 said:

---

"There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others."

So you disagree with Nietsche? You disagree with Freud?

---

Nietzsche was a philosopher with some good ideas, many of which were distorted by his sister in her rendition of his works. I disagree more with his sister. Philosophy is an exercise in rational thought as a solution in and of itself to existential questions. It's outlived its usefulness, except to applying rational thought to scientifically derived evidence. Most of Freud's work has been discredited in the field of psychology. It didn't hold up to scientific scrutiny. The main thing that has held up is his view that mental illness is a disease, and take on psychological defense mechanisms - denial, repression, projection, intellectualization, and rationalization. We see those displayed here every day in your posts, and on the floor of congress yesterday.

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

I don't want to force others to equalize humanity.

Do you not recognize that without some minimal social safety net and cooperative effort there will be chaos a world of 8 billion?

---

Why don't you want to force others to equalize humanity?

Is it because it's deeply unfair?

LTbear said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I don't think this is a fair statement, but I'm jumping in and haven't read this entire dialogue. But your statement here seems to suppose that "meaning" must be given or bestowed by some higher power/ authority. Plenty of people I know find meaning or create meaning in their lives completely absent of religious faith, and there is no struggle in doing so. It may be from their role as a parent, from their careers, or from their service to their communities and humanity at large. All of them find meaning in serving something greater than themselves. If your faith gives you meaning, that's great, and I fully respect it, but it's misguided and a bit myopic to suggest that your source of meaning is the only viable one.

---

Show me where I state my "source of meaning" and also where I assert it is the only viable one, please.

FWIW, TS and I have have had this conversation off and on across many threads for a long time. Nothing new here.

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I find meaning in life is what we give it. We can find it through the evolution of religious beliefs, or now that we have better ways of understanding the universe, through an appreciation of the universe for what it is, and that we have the ability to understand it, and an appreciation of the others we share it with. The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda. Many atheists throughout history have lived meaningful lives. History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion.

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubtedly a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

Asserting " The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda" falls into the category of opinion in the same way that asserting one can have a meaningful life without religion does.

curtpenn said:

---

LTbear said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I don't think this is a fair statement, but I'm jumping in and haven't read this entire dialogue. But your statement here seems to suppose that "meaning" must be given or bestowed by some higher power/ authority. Plenty of people I know find meaning or create meaning in their lives completely absent of religious faith, and there is no struggle in doing so. It may be from their role as a parent, from their careers, or from their service to their communities and humanity at large. All of them find meaning in serving something greater than themselves. If your faith gives you meaning, that's great, and I fully respect it, but it's misguided and a bit myopic to suggest that your source of meaning is the only viable one.

---

Show me where I state my "source of meaning" and also where I assert it is the only viable one, please.

FWIW, TS and I have have had this conversation off and on across many threads for a long time. Nothing new here.

---

I said at the beginning I hadn't read the entire dialogue. Your statement can be read to imply that meaning in life cannot be found without a god, since you say that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaningless. If you do not intend to imply that meaning in life can only come from a higher power, then we agree.

LTbear said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

LTbear said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I don't think this is a fair statement, but I'm jumping in and haven't read this entire dialogue. But your statement here seems to suppose that "meaning" must be given or bestowed by some higher power/ authority. Plenty of people I know find meaning or create meaning in their lives completely absent of religious faith, and there is no struggle in doing so. It may be from their role as a parent, from their careers, or from their service to their communities and humanity at large. All of them find meaning in serving something greater than themselves. If your faith gives you meaning, that's great, and I fully respect it, but it's misguided and a bit myopic to suggest that your source of meaning is the only viable one.

---

Show me where I state my "source of meaning" and also where I assert it is the only viable one, please.

FWIW, TS and I have have had this conversation off and on across many threads for a long time. Nothing new here.

---

I said at the beginning I hadn't read the entire dialogue. Your statement can be read to imply that meaning in life cannot be found without a god, since you say that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaningless. If you do not intend to imply that meaning in life can only come from a higher power, then we agree.

---

Most everyone needs meaning. Some paths are better than others. No path is free from human folly and danger. I contend that an orthodox Christian point of view offers more meaning and less danger than atheism (among others). Just an opinion, but isn't that why we are here on this platform?

curtpenn said:

---

LTbear said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

LTbear said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I don't think this is a fair statement, but I'm jumping in and haven't read this entire dialogue. But your statement here seems to suppose that "meaning" must be given or bestowed by some higher power/ authority. Plenty of people I know find meaning or create meaning in their lives completely absent of religious faith, and there is no struggle in doing so. It may be from their role as a parent, from their careers, or from their service to their communities and humanity at large. All of them find meaning in serving something greater than themselves. If your faith gives you meaning, that's great, and I fully respect it, but it's misguided and a bit myopic to suggest that your source of meaning is the only viable one.

---

Show me where I state my "source of meaning" and also where I assert it is the only viable one, please.

FWIW, TS and I have have had this conversation off and on across many threads for a long time. Nothing new here.

---

I said at the beginning I hadn't read the entire dialogue. Your statement can be read to imply that meaning in life cannot be found without a god, since you say that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaningless. If you do not intend to imply that meaning in life can only come from a higher power, then we agree.

---

Most everyone needs meaning. Some paths are better than others. No path is free from human folly and danger. I contend that an orthodox Christian point of view offers more meaning and less danger than atheism (among others). Just an opinion, but isn't that why we are here on this platform?

---

Sure. And my opinion is different. I find these topics interesting, which is why I occasionally chime in.

curtpenn said:

---

Most everyone needs meaning. Some paths are better than others. No path is free from human folly and danger. I contend that an orthodox Christian point of view offers more meaning and less danger than atheism (among others). Just an opinion, but isn't that why we are here on this platform?

---

Your opinion: "curtpenn said:

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness."

Never understood why Christians have the opinion that their opinion is the only one with meaning.

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

I don't want to force others to equalize humanity.

Do you not recognize that without some minimal social safety net and cooperative effort there will be chaos a world of 8 billion?

---

Why don't you want to force others to equalize humanity?

Is it because it's deeply unfair?

---

There are some things are enforced in order to maintain order. Force in general, is counter productive. Isn't it better to persuade people to work cooperatively, and willingly for equal opportunity?

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I find meaning in life is what we give it. We can find it through the evolution of religious beliefs, or now that we have better ways of understanding the universe, through an appreciation of the universe for what it is, and that we have the ability to understand it, and an appreciation of the others we share it with. The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda. Many atheists throughout history have lived meaningful lives. History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion.

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubted, a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

Asserting " The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda" falls into the category of opinion in the same way that asserting one can have a meaningful life without religion does.

---

Quote:

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubted, a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

---

If you accept your premise of a self centered viewpoint, that would apply to the religious also. Every individual as an entity interested in its own well-being determines what they want to accept as truth, either through religion or otherwise. Dangerous and deceptive conclusions arise out of ignorance.

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I find meaning in life is what we give it. We can find it through the evolution of religious beliefs, or now that we have better ways of understanding the universe, through an appreciation of the universe for what it is, and that we have the ability to understand it, and an appreciation of the others we share it with. The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda. Many atheists throughout history have lived meaningful lives. History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion.

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubted, a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

Asserting " The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda" falls into the category of opinion in the same way that asserting one can have a meaningful life without religion does.

---

Quote:

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubted, a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

---

If you accept your premise of a self centered viewpoint, that would apply to the religious also. Every individual as an entity interested in its own well-being determines what they want to accept as truth, either through religion or otherwise. Dangerous and deceptive conclusions arise out of ignorance.

---

"Dangerous and deceptive conclusions" arise out of dangerous and deceptive premises.

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Most everyone needs meaning. Some paths are better than others. No path is free from human folly and danger. I contend that an orthodox Christian point of view offers more meaning and less danger than atheism (among others). Just an opinion, but isn't that why we are here on this platform?

---

Your opinion: "curtpenn said:

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness."

Never understood why Christians have the opinion that their opinion is the only one with meaning.

---

All opinions have meaning. Not all opinions are true or well informed.

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I find meaning in life is what we give it. We can find it through the evolution of religious beliefs, or now that we have better ways of understanding the universe, through an appreciation of the universe for what it is, and that we have the ability to understand it, and an appreciation of the others we share it with. The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda. Many atheists throughout history have lived meaningful lives. History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion.

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubted, a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

Asserting " The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda" falls into the category of opinion in the same way that asserting one can have a meaningful life without religion does.

---

Quote:

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubted, a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

---

If you accept your premise of a self centered viewpoint, that would apply to the religious also. Every individual as an entity interested in its own well-being determines what they want to accept as truth, either through religion or otherwise. Dangerous and deceptive conclusions arise out of ignorance.

---

"Dangerous and deceptive conclusions" arise out of dangerous and deceptive premises.

---

Doesn't ignorance yield faulty premise?

Just a personal update. I had surgery yesterday, which went well but I am at 20% strength right now, meaning I will read everything but post little. Same opinions, just less mojo juice to post them with any hope of coherency.

Thanks to all.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Just a personal update. I had surgery yesterday, which went well but I am at 20% strength right now, meaning I will read everything but post little. Same opinions, just less mojo juice to post them with any hope of coherency.

Thanks to all.

---

Didn't know you had surgery. I'm glad you are doing well.

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

You don't believe in god, so what is your scientific reason that requires me to share?

---

It's your attitude. No empathy for others. It's not one that comports with what are supposedly the teachings of Christianity. I seem to recall you claim that as your faith.

---

But you don't believe in that, so tell me your scientific reason why?

---

Sure I believe in empathy. It's an evolutionary trait for group support and survival. You tell me why you don't believe in empathy.

---

I have plenty of empathy.

You believe that we're an accident. If you're truly a scientist then you should believe nothing matters and there is no point to existence. We're all going to die anyways. Your idea of empathy is simply your brain tricking you, even so much that you desire force on others to equalize humanity.

This is you fulfilling a biological desire that your IQ can't overcome.

---

What a total distortion. The natural rise of life does not require nihilism. At all. Good grief.

---

I was being sarcastic, good grief. You do realize TS is a nihilist? He doesn't believe in god and thinks the universe just came into being all on its own, therefore there is no point to anything other than your minds own creations. This isn't what I believe.

---

Fine.

There is still a beautiful point to living, TS thinks so, too.

There are a scientific reasons for doing good for others.

---

I wouldn't be alive if I didn't believe there was a point to life. I believe in Jesus, I care for humanity. I plan to adopt one day in fact: the ultimate form of welfare.

---

You don't have to believe in a religion to find a point to life. It can be found, without the dangerous connotations and deceptions of religion, through finding beauty in the amazing fact that cognizant life can be found in tiny remote corners of a universe with the ability to appreciate it, and appreciate the brief time we are here.

---

Your struggle to find meaning in a totally materialist framework is completely understandable. Never understand why you can't just accept that the logical endpoint of atheism is meaninglessness. Of course, if you accepted that life had no point, then you could arrive at truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions.

---

I find meaning in life is what we give it. We can find it through the evolution of religious beliefs, or now that we have better ways of understanding the universe, through an appreciation of the universe for what it is, and that we have the ability to understand it, and an appreciation of the others we share it with. The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda. Many atheists throughout history have lived meaningful lives. History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion.

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubted, a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

Asserting " The idea you can't have a meaningful life without religion, is religious propaganda" falls into the category of opinion in the same way that asserting one can have a meaningful life without religion does.

---

Quote:

---

That "History is punctuated with truly dangerous and deceptive conclusions that came from religion" is undoubted, a true statement. My point is, understanding existence from a completely self-centered viewpoint whereby each individual determines their own "truth" does nothing to preclude said "dangerous and deceptive conclusions".

---

If you accept your premise of a self centered viewpoint, that would apply to the religious also. Every individual as an entity interested in its own well-being determines what they want to accept as truth, either through religion or otherwise. Dangerous and deceptive conclusions arise out of ignorance.

---

"Dangerous and deceptive conclusions" arise out of dangerous and deceptive premises.

---

Doesn't ignorance yield faulty premise?

---

That is a very interesting question. Off the top of my head, I'd say it could go either way.

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

We all know what he means by "socialists."

BLM is "socialism". Anyone not like him = "socialists."

Socialists don't have one job, they usually have 3 or 4, that's why they wants socialism, because capitalism has only ever screwed them over.

There is an entire economy built around keeping poor people poor. If you don't know that, then you're not paying attention. I escaped it by pure luck and an insane amount of blessings. I know people who had more talent and who work harder than I do and have half as much to show for it.

But anyone who has read his posts knows he's racist. It's a decent idea to type it out every now and again.

I forget how soft old white men who have been sniffing their own farts for so long they think they weren't born on third can be.

---

Because of people like you, the word racist no longer has any meaning. And apparently only black people are poor. You and Waco1947 are two of the most hateful white men (towards white men) I have ever encountered in my 57 years of life. You should just be happy to be here!

---

Yes, it's always fun to hear old white guys blame others for "ruining" racism.

Let's be honest, it never meant anything to an old turd like you.

Add this to the warehouses of things you don't understand: I don't hate you. I pity you. I truly feel sad for you. You lack of introspection means you miss out on a chance to do a lot of good in the world. If I hated you, or even worse, if I was indifferent to you, I wouldn't bother with you.

---

Why am I required to do good for the world?

---

I'm not at all surprised you would ask that question.

---

Answer it.

Why am I required to perform service for others? Why am I required to worsen my own livelihood for equity?

---

I never said you were required to do anything for others.

Your premise is disgusting, if predictable, however. Your faith requires it. But honestly, the American ideal requires it. You pay taxes because we need roads and private investment would not do that. To be quite honest, doing well for others pays off in the long run. Adam Smith admitted as much, why can't you?

We all benefit from a society where we invest in each other, and where meritocracy is an actual thing. But if there is not a truly level playing field, then meritocracy cannot truly exist. The ultimate freedom is only truly possible in a society that is equitable.

How many Einsteins were lost because they were born in the poor, rural, south? How many future leaders were lost because they were born to parents that, suffering from mental illness and could not afford their medication, dragged their family down with them?

It takes only a bare minimum of imagination to see the limitless benefits of giving a **** about other people.

It would cut into your conspiracy twitter time, though, so I'm not holding out a lot of hope for you.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

We all know what he means by "socialists."

BLM is "socialism". Anyone not like him = "socialists."

Socialists don't have one job, they usually have 3 or 4, that's why they wants socialism, because capitalism has only ever screwed them over.

There is an entire economy built around keeping poor people poor. If you don't know that, then you're not paying attention. I escaped it by pure luck and an insane amount of blessings. I know people who had more talent and who work harder than I do and have half as much to show for it.

But anyone who has read his posts knows he's racist. It's a decent idea to type it out every now and again.

I forget how soft old white men who have been sniffing their own farts for so long they think they weren't born on third can be.

---

Because of people like you, the word racist no longer has any meaning. And apparently only black people are poor. You and Waco1947 are two of the most hateful white men (towards white men) I have ever encountered in my 57 years of life. You should just be happy to be here!

---

Yes, it's always fun to hear old white guys blame others for "ruining" racism.

Let's be honest, it never meant anything to an old turd like you.

Add this to the warehouses of things you don't understand: I don't hate you. I pity you. I truly feel sad for you. You lack of introspection means you miss out on a chance to do a lot of good in the world. If I hated you, or even worse, if I was indifferent to you, I wouldn't bother with you.

---

Why am I required to do good for the world?

---

I'm not at all surprised you would ask that question.

---

Answer it.

Why am I required to perform service for others? Why am I required to worsen my own livelihood for equity?

---

I never said you were required to do anything for others.

Your premise is disgusting, if predictable, however. Your faith requires it. But honestly, the American ideal requires it. You pay taxes because we need roads and private investment would not do that. To be quite honest, doing well for others pays off in the long run. Adam Smith admitted as much, why can't you?

We all benefit from a society where we invest in each other, and where meritocracy is an actual thing. But if there is not a truly level playing field, then meritocracy cannot truly exist. The ultimate freedom is only truly possible in a society that is equitable.

How many Einsteins were lost because they were born in the poor, rural, south? How many future leaders were lost because they were born to parents that, suffering from mental illness and could not afford their medication, dragged their family down with them?

It takes only a bare minimum of imagination to see the limitless benefits of giving a **** about other people.

It would cut into your conspiracy twitter time, though, so I'm not holding out a lot of hope for you.

---

That's rich

Oldbear83 said:

---

Just a personal update. I had surgery yesterday, which went well but I am at 20% strength right now, meaning I will read everything but post little. Same opinions, just less mojo juice to post them with any hope of coherency.

Thanks to all.

---

Get healthy! Mojo has never been an issue for you anyway. Here's to hoping you're back to needing my constant correction on here soon!