RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Real Answer: Irrational fear and desperate need to control the lives of others.

---

Who has a desperate need to control the lives of others? And, how do they conspire to implement their diabolical plan?

---

Obviously you haven't been paying attention these last 15 months.

---

for a scientist, he doesnt appear to be very good at observation.

"Don't just look, observe.. Don't just swallow, taste.. Don't just sleep, dream.. Don't just think, feel... Don't just exist, live..."
Ritu Ghatourey

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

Viruses respond to evolutionary pressure. Most tend to become less deadly so as not to kill off the host before spreading. In this case the virus spreads unusually well for an unusually long time before symptoms appear. It also takes an unusually long time to kill after symptoms appear. So the evolutionary pressure is less. There's already evidence that some variants are more deadly. They also evolve to become more transmissible, and there's evidence of that too.

4th and Inches said:

---

cms186 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance they get the virus and the more chance that the Virus mutates again

---

lol, virus gonna virus

Which one have we have successfully stopped? Flu? Chicken pox? Common cold?

People become asymptomatic carriers of these viruses but the virus is still around

---

Smallpox and polio come immediately to mind.

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

cms186 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance they get the virus and the more chance that the Virus mutates again

---

lol, virus gonna virus

Which one have we have successfully stopped? Flu? Chicken pox? Common cold?

People become asymptomatic carriers of these viruses but the virus is still around

---

Smallpox and polio come immediately to mind.

---

and you would be wrong good try though

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

Viruses respond to evolutionary pressure. Most tend to become less deadly so as not to kill off the host before spreading. In this case the virus spreads unusually well for an unusually long time before symptoms appear. It also takes an unusually long time to kill after symptoms appear. So the evolutionary pressure is less. There's already evidence that some variants are more deadly. They also evolve to become more transmissible, and there's evidence of that too.

---

You forgot one critical factor. It rarely kills, especially if it isn't helped by other comorbidities, and there's only speculation variants are more deadly, and even those are by minute factors. In fact there's a better case to be made that the virus was deadlier last March through May, and has been steadily declining in severity ever since.

India will reach herd immunity by rapid spread, not vaccines. It's just not logistically possible to vaccinate a Billion+ people with a fast spreading virus. But ratios of severity, even with new strains, continue to decline.

muddybrazos said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Only 40% of ppl in my state vaccinated.

That's because of awful leaders. All of whom are vaccinated.

In this case its, "Do what they do, not what they say."

---

you live in Mississippi?

---

Intelligence of Mississippians is underestimated

J.B.Katz said:

---

Only 40% of ppl in my state vaccinated.

That's because of awful leaders. All of whom are vaccinated.

In this case its, "Do what they do, not what they say."

---

JB is probably getting the truth, or close to it, on the true number vaccinated

I'm hearing 100,000,000 Americans are vaccinated

That's around a 30% true number

Fake news wants to make us feel we're alone in being unvaccinated and guilt trip its' jab on us

Standard operating procedures

Best "antibodies" are true antibodies after catching it which we all probably have already but .... how much money can Pharmaceutical Companies make from that?

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

cms186 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance they get the virus and the more chance that the Virus mutates again

---

lol, virus gonna virus

Which one have we have successfully stopped? Flu? Chicken pox? Common cold?

People become asymptomatic carriers of these viruses but the virus is still around

---

Smallpox and polio come immediately to mind.

---

and you would be wrong good try though

---

I guess it depends on what one means by "stopped."

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

cms186 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance they get the virus and the more chance that the Virus mutates again

---

lol, virus gonna virus

Which one have we have successfully stopped? Flu? Chicken pox? Common cold?

People become asymptomatic carriers of these viruses but the virus is still around

---

Small pox, chicken pox, polio ...

Common cold and chicken pox typically are not fatal nor do they produce lingering morbidity.

We won't know where mutations will take this virus if it continues unchecked.

---

try again, those viruses are still out there

Outbreaks are common in Africa and the Middle East. Some wild and some from vaccine strains

---

Not quite. The vaccines are effective, and if everyone were vaccinated polio would be totally eradicated, it is only present in a couple of areas in Asia. Small pox has been eradicated.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Real Answer: Irrational fear and desperate need to control the lives of others.

---

Who has a desperate need to control the lives of others? And, how do they conspire to implement their diabolical plan?

---

Obviously you haven't been paying attention these last 15 months.

---

Ok, I'm listening. Tell me who has a desparate need to control the lives of others, and how do the conspire to accomplish their conspiracy?

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

And, without human intervention the natural course, whatever that is, will lead to more unecessary deaths aroung the world.

It's almost painful how you lack the ability to do scientific research but still apparently consider yourself a "Scientist?"

You draw conclusions and stop any research at that point! Do you not realize that's simply anti-science?

It's really comical how much of a Scientist you aren't

You probably don't even comprehend what I asked here?

Sad

D. C. Bear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

cms186 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance they get the virus and the more chance that the Virus mutates again

---

lol, virus gonna virus

Which one have we have successfully stopped? Flu? Chicken pox? Common cold?

People become asymptomatic carriers of these viruses but the virus is still around

---

Smallpox and polio come immediately to mind.

---

We had eradicated measles in the US until anti-vax nuts in CA brought it back.

Whopping cough, chicken pox, mumps-had all of those by the time I was 5 but kids were vaxed and never had them.

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

And, without human intervention the natural course, whatever that is, will lead to more unecessary deaths aroung the world.

---

Vaccines + antibiotics are largely responsible for increasing the average lifespan from 30 in the early 1800s to where it is today. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/magazine/global-life-span.html

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

And, without human intervention the natural course, whatever that is, will lead to more unecessary deaths aroung the world.

---

Vaccines + antibiotics are largely responsible for increasing the average lifespan from 30 in the early 1800s to where it is today. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/magazine/global-life-span.html

---

NY Times ^^^

Our new science?

Hilarious idiots

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

Viruses respond to evolutionary pressure. Most tend to become less deadly so as not to kill off the host before spreading. In this case the virus spreads unusually well for an unusually long time before symptoms appear. It also takes an unusually long time to kill after symptoms appear. So the evolutionary pressure is less. There's already evidence that some variants are more deadly. They also evolve to become more transmissible, and there's evidence of that too.

---

You forgot one critical factor. It rarely kills, especially if it isn't helped by other comorbidities, and there's only speculation variants are more deadly, and even those are by minute factors. In fact there's a better case to be made that the virus was deadlier last March through May, and has been steadily declining in severity ever since.

India will reach herd immunity by rapid spread, not vaccines. It's just not logistically possible to vaccinate a Billion+ people with a fast spreading virus. But ratios of severity, even with new strains, continue to decline.

---

You're confusing lethality of the virus with severity of outcomes. It may kill a relatively small percentage of patients compared to some other viruses, but if it kills a higher percentage than some others and if enough people get it, it can become a leading cause of death (third most common in 2020, to be exact). That's not rare by any measure. Death rates are declining for various reasons, including better treatment and especially vaccines. That's a separate question from the inherent lethality of new strains. And even if a variant only increases transmissibility, that's a problem in itself.

br53 said:

---

It's funny when it comes to abortion liberals scream my body my choice but over a vaccine they want to force everyone to get it and carry around paperwork. Hey if you took that much precaution over a virus try wearing a condom or taking birth control.

---

Apples and oranges.

Vaccine not only helps you, it helps everybody. More ppl vaccinated means fewer cases means ppl who cant be vaxed because they're got some kind of immune disorder or are undergoing chemo are less vulnerable.

So it's both an individual good and a public good.

That's why it's not a controversy that public schools require that kids be vaxed and why most ppl don't argue with that.

Whereas an abortion only affects the woman and the father, if he's even involved. I know some ppl think forcing every woman who gets pregnant to give birth contributes to the public good; I think there's an equally good argument that making women, inc victims of rape and incest, give birth has a negative impact on society; ppl who are well-equipped and eager to raise kids don't have abortions. We already have more kids in the foster system than we can adequately care for. But my overweeming view here is that the govt simply has no place in the woman's decision about what to do if she gets pregnant and the govt should butt out.

Making a woman carry for 9 months in a country where there's no guaranteed access to healthcare for her after the kid comes or employment support or access to child care she can afford is also significantly different than requiring somebody spend the 15 minutes it takes to a free shot in order to come to work or get on a plane. You're saddling the woman with an unfunded liability the extent of which is impossible to predict (suppose the child is disabled and needs 24/7 care from a parent) and then telling her she can give the child up for adoption if she can't support it. That's inhumane.

My employer set up the appt and gave everyone shots and then said anyone who didn't get a shot by X date might face termination. That still offers a choice. You don't want the shot? Then find another job.

Carlos Cruz said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

br53 said:

---

It's funny when it comes to abortion liberals scream my body my choice but over a vaccine they want to force everyone to get it and carry around paperwork. Hey if you took that much precaution over a virus try wearing a condom or taking birth control.

---

Whereas an abortion only affects the woman and the father,

---

I think you are forgetting about the unborn child that gets chopped up or burned in the womb or gets his brain vacuumed out of his skull because he is found to be inconvenient.

---

Most pregnancies are terminated before 12 wks but thanks for the predictable hyperbole.

I suppose you're one of the goons who want to charge women who experience miscarriages with murder?

TexasScientist said:

---

Drug Pitched to Trump for Covid-19 Comes From a Deadly Plant

The chief executive of My Pillow, a Trump donor, claims oleandrin is a miracle cure for Covid-19. But no studies have shown that it is safe or effective, and the shrub it's derived from is poisonous.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/20/health/covid-oleandrin-trump-mypillow.html

The unsubstantiated claims alarmed scientists. No studies have shown that oleandrin is safe or effective as a coronavirus treatment. It's unclear what dose the purported treatment would have, but ingesting even a tiny bit of the toxic shrub the compound comes from could kill you, experts say.


Why Mike Lindell Can't Stop

The MyPillow tycoon has lost business pumping up Trump conspiracy theories, and probably lost his chance at a political future. But he believes he's on a divine mission to overturn the electionand he's not alone.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/06/15/mike-lindell-mypillow-trump-election-conspiracy-494302

One day in mid-May, after a rally in South Dakota to promote his new website, Mike Lindell, the pillow magnate and indefatigable election-conspiracy promoter, barreled into his company headquarters, sat himself down at a long table in a conference room he uses as a makeshift office and slid a dropper under his tongue.

The dropper was full of oleandrin, a plant extract that he toutsalarmingly, to scientistsas both a preventative and "miracle" cure for Covid-19. He squeezed.

"Look at this I can never get the virus," he said, near the beginning of the roughly six hours I spent with him over two days at MyPillow. "It's impossible for me to get it."

---

The drug comes from a deadly plant?!?!?! No chance for me. In fact, I'm swearing off oxygen because I now it can be deadly.

That "from a deadly plant " thing may be the dumbest statement ever.

J.B.Katz said:

---

br53 said:

---

It's funny when it comes to abortion liberals scream my body my choice but over a vaccine they want to force everyone to get it and carry around paperwork. Hey if you took that much precaution over a virus try wearing a condom or taking birth control.

---

Apples and oranges.

Vaccine not only helps you, it helps everybody. More ppl vaccinated means fewer cases means ppl who cant be vaxed because they're got some kind of immune disorder or are undergoing chemo are less vulnerable.

So it's both an individual good and a public good.

That's why it's not a controversy that public schools require that kids be vaxed and why most ppl don't argue with that.

Whereas an abortion only affects the woman and the father, if he's even involved. I know some ppl think forcing every woman who gets pregnant to give birth contributes to the public good; I think there's an equally good argument that making women, inc victims of rape and incest, give birth has a negative impact on society; ppl who are well-equipped and eager to raise kids don't have abortions. We already have more kids in the foster system than we can adequately care for. But my overweeming view here is that the govt simply has no place in the woman's decision about what to do if she gets pregnant and the govt should butt out.

Making a woman carry for 9 months in a country where there's no guaranteed access to healthcare for her after the kid comes or employment support or access to child care she can afford is also significantly different than requiring somebody spend the 15 minutes it takes to a free shot in order to come to work or get on a plane. You're saddling the woman with an unfunded liability the extent of which is impossible to predict (suppose the child is disabled and needs 24/7 care from a parent) and then telling her she can give the child up for adoption if she can't support it. That's inhumane.

My employer set up the appt and gave everyone shots and then said anyone who didn't get a shot by X date might face termination. That still offers a choice. You don't want the shot? Then find another job.

---

Your argument is flawed because although I get vaccinated it doesnt mean that I cant get COVID and still pass it on to others. The government has no place telling people to get a vaccine when they dont know all the side effects and what long term issues it may cause. What if it causes fertility issues? Your argument concerning abortion carries zero weight. If she is worried about having a child that is disabled or not being able to care for it she should get on birth control (many different options), make sure that her partner wears a condom, or abstain from sex. There is nothing inhumane about it. These people that you are saying cant afford birth control and healthcare have no problem owning 75" televisions, Luis Vuitton purses and having the latest smart phone. You liberals cant have it both ways, those days are over.

Carlos Cruz said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

br53 said:

---

It's funny when it comes to abortion liberals scream my body my choice but over a vaccine they want to force everyone to get it and carry around paperwork. Hey if you took that much precaution over a virus try wearing a condom or taking birth control.

---

Whereas an abortion only affects the woman and the father,

---

I think you are forgetting about the unborn child that gets chopped up or burned in the womb or gets his brain vacuumed out of his skull because he is found to be inconvenient.

---

Most pregnancies are terminated before 12 wks but thanks for the predictable hyperbole.

I suppose you're one of the goons who want to charge women who experience miscarriages with murder?

---

A child's heartbeat starts often times before the woman knows she is pregnant. Not that it matters. It is still a human being.

I would not charge anyone for miscarrying. Abortion is not a miscarriage. Abortion is violent act committed against the unborn most often for the sake of convenience.

---

^^^ If someone can't add up what this post says and reach the conclusion of murder one, well, they'd have to just be another clueless democrat

J.B.Katz said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

br53 said:

---

It's funny when it comes to abortion liberals scream my body my choice but over a vaccine they want to force everyone to get it and carry around paperwork. Hey if you took that much precaution over a virus try wearing a condom or taking birth control.

---

Whereas an abortion only affects the woman and the father,

---

I think you are forgetting about the unborn child that gets chopped up or burned in the womb or gets his brain vacuumed out of his skull because he is found to be inconvenient.

---

Most pregnancies are terminated before 12 wks but thanks for the predictable hyperbole.

I suppose you're one of the goons who want to charge women who experience miscarriages with murder?

---

I have never heard of ANYONE say a miscarriage = murder. Can you link to anything by anyone who has said this in a legitimate discussion? I'm guessing no but I'm patient so I'll wait.

(I'm guessing typical lib overplaying their hand)

TexasScientist said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

cms186 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance they get the virus and the more chance that the Virus mutates again

---

lol, virus gonna virus

Which one have we have successfully stopped? Flu? Chicken pox? Common cold?

People become asymptomatic carriers of these viruses but the virus is still around

---

Small pox, chicken pox, polio ...

Common cold and chicken pox typically are not fatal nor do they produce lingering morbidity.

We won't know where mutations will take this virus if it continues unchecked.

---

try again, those viruses are still out there

Outbreaks are common in Africa and the Middle East. Some wild and some from vaccine strains

---

Not quite. The vaccines are effective, and if everyone were vaccinated polio would be totally eradicated, it is only present in a couple of areas in Asia. Small pox has been eradicated.

---

wrong but that is normal for you If you ignore the dozen or so outbreaks in Africa that happened in the last three years then it's all isolated in Asia.

If they were truely eliminated, why are we still giving our kids vaccines for these things? If it is gone, why are we still giving the shots to prevent something that doesnt exist?

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

cms186 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance they get the virus and the more chance that the Virus mutates again

---

lol, virus gonna virus

Which one have we have successfully stopped? Flu? Chicken pox? Common cold?

People become asymptomatic carriers of these viruses but the virus is still around

---

Small pox, chicken pox, polio ...

Common cold and chicken pox typically are not fatal nor do they produce lingering morbidity.

We won't know where mutations will take this virus if it continues unchecked.

---

try again, those viruses are still out there

Outbreaks are common in Africa and the Middle East. Some wild and some from vaccine strains

---

Not quite. The vaccines are effective, and if everyone were vaccinated polio would be totally eradicated, it is only present in a couple of areas in Asia. Small pox has been eradicated.

---

wrong but that is normal for you If you ignore the dozen or so outbreaks in Africa that happened in the last three years then it's all isolated in Asia.

If they were truely eliminated, why are we still giving our kids vaccines for these things? If it is gone, why are we still giving the shots to prevent something that doesnt exist?

---

bad scien(ce)(t)ist

According to an algorithm developed but UT Southwestern, 21.5% of the population of the U.S. have been infected with COVID. I, and every member of my family, are included in that number. That is an estimate 71M people. According to USAFacts, 53% of our U.S. population have had at least one shot. 45% of the U.S. population have had both shots. If 50%, which I believe to be a high percentage, had COVID and got at least one vaccination, that means that over 63%+ of our population is protected by either antibodies or the vaccine. The facts are - we are very close to herd immunity. The statistics bear this out.

Now, let's review some other data.

1. If variants were going to make a big impact you would see a jump in infections and/or deaths. To date, that has not happened.
2. The CDC will not mention how protected people are that had COVID as they want everyone to get the vaccine. Early results from studies show antibodies, although perhaps low in the blood stream, are present in bone marrow meaning that after one year, maybe longer, you have the antibodies.
3. If you have had COVID or taken the vaccine, there is a less than a 1/2 of 1% chance you will get it a second time. AND, even if you do, there is no real evidence that it will be a severe or fatal case.

It is entirely possible that a new variant will come out and change things, but that has not happened, yet. The Delta variant (India) is now more than 10% of all cases in the U.S., but infections are not going up, hospitalizations are not going up and deaths are not going up. Those are the facts. Afraid they might? I get that, but don't start projecting. Just look at the facts.

It is over unless something changes the dynamic of this pandemic. Like it is today, it will be with us maybe for a long time, but nothing like it was in 2020 and early 2021.

By the way, I am 65 years old and my Dr. signed me up for the Plasma treatment. On my 5th day of infection, I had plasma with antibodies from other people put into my body. I left the treatment with a severe sore throat and fever. I woke up the next morning with no symptoms exceed extreme fatigue. For me, like Donald Trump, it worked like a miracle. The one thing about plasma, in order to have a chance to work it must be taken early in the infection cycle.

br53 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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br53 said:

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It's funny when it comes to abortion liberals scream my body my choice but over a vaccine they want to force everyone to get it and carry around paperwork. Hey if you took that much precaution over a virus try wearing a condom or taking birth control.

---

Apples and oranges.

Vaccine not only helps you, it helps everybody. More ppl vaccinated means fewer cases means ppl who cant be vaxed because they're got some kind of immune disorder or are undergoing chemo are less vulnerable.

So it's both an individual good and a public good.

That's why it's not a controversy that public schools require that kids be vaxed and why most ppl don't argue with that.

Whereas an abortion only affects the woman and the father, if he's even involved. I know some ppl think forcing every woman who gets pregnant to give birth contributes to the public good; I think there's an equally good argument that making women, inc victims of rape and incest, give birth has a negative impact on society; ppl who are well-equipped and eager to raise kids don't have abortions. We already have more kids in the foster system than we can adequately care for. But my overweeming view here is that the govt simply has no place in the woman's decision about what to do if she gets pregnant and the govt should butt out.

Making a woman carry for 9 months in a country where there's no guaranteed access to healthcare for her after the kid comes or employment support or access to child care she can afford is also significantly different than requiring somebody spend the 15 minutes it takes to a free shot in order to come to work or get on a plane. You're saddling the woman with an unfunded liability the extent of which is impossible to predict (suppose the child is disabled and needs 24/7 care from a parent) and then telling her she can give the child up for adoption if she can't support it. That's inhumane.

My employer set up the appt and gave everyone shots and then said anyone who didn't get a shot by X date might face termination. That still offers a choice. You don't want the shot? Then find another job.

---

Your argument is flawed because although I get vaccinated it doesnt mean that I cant get COVID and still pass it on to others. The government has no place telling people to get a vaccine when they dont know all the side effects and what long term issues it may cause. What if it causes fertility issues? Your argument concerning abortion carries zero weight. If she is worried about having a child that is disabled or not being able to care for it she should get on birth control (many different options), make sure that her partner wears a condom, or abstain from sex. There is nothing inhumane about it. These people that you are saying cant afford birth control and healthcare have no problem owning 75" televisions, Luis Vuitton purses and having the latest smart phone. You liberals cant have it both ways, those days are over.

---

Evidence suggests that if you are vaccinated you won't get COVID or pass it along to others.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

Viruses respond to evolutionary pressure. Most tend to become less deadly so as not to kill off the host before spreading. In this case the virus spreads unusually well for an unusually long time before symptoms appear. It also takes an unusually long time to kill after symptoms appear. So the evolutionary pressure is less. There's already evidence that some variants are more deadly. They also evolve to become more transmissible, and there's evidence of that too.

---

You forgot one critical factor. It rarely kills, especially if it isn't helped by other comorbidities, and there's only speculation variants are more deadly, and even those are by minute factors. In fact there's a better case to be made that the virus was deadlier last March through May, and has been steadily declining in severity ever since.

India will reach herd immunity by rapid spread, not vaccines. It's just not logistically possible to vaccinate a Billion+ people with a fast spreading virus. But ratios of severity, even with new strains, continue to decline.

---

You're confusing lethality of the virus with severity of outcomes. It may kill a relatively small percentage of patients compared to some other viruses, but if it kills a higher percentage than some others and if enough people get it, it can become a leading cause of death (third most common in 2020, to be exact). That's not rare by any measure. Death rates are declining for various reasons, including better treatment and especially vaccines. That's a separate question from the inherent lethality of new strains. And even if a variant only increases transmissibility, that's a problem in itself.

---

That's so twisted from actual viral outcome and process I don't know where to address.

Greenbear said:

---

According to an algorithm developed but UT Southwestern, 21.5% of the population of the U.S. have been infected with COVID. I, and every member of my family, are included in that number. That is an estimate 71M people. According to USAFacts, 53% of our U.S. population have had at least one shot. 45% of the U.S. population have had both shots. If 50%, which I believe to be a high percentage, had COVID and got at least one vaccination, that means that over 63%+ of our population is protected by either antibodies or the vaccine. The facts are - we are very close to herd immunity. The statistics bear this out.

Now, let's review some other data.

1. If variants were going to make a big impact you would see a jump in infections and/or deaths. To date, that has not happened.
2. The CDC will not mention how protected people are that had COVID as they want everyone to get the vaccine. Early results from studies show antibodies, although perhaps low in the blood stream, are present in bone marrow meaning that after one year, maybe longer, you have the antibodies.
3. If you have had COVID or taken the vaccine, there is a less than a 1/2 of 1% chance you will get it a second time. AND, even if you do, there is no real evidence that it will be a severe or fatal case.

It is entirely possible that a new variant will come out and change things, but that has not happened, yet. The Delta variant (India) is now more than 10% of all cases in the U.S., but infections are not going up, hospitalizations are not going up and deaths are not going up. Those are the facts. Afraid they might? I get that, but don't start projecting. Just look at the facts.

It is over unless something changes the dynamic of this pandemic. Like it is today, it will be with us maybe for a long time, but nothing like it was in 2020 and early 2021.

By the way, I am 65 years old and my Dr. signed me up for the Plasma treatment. On my 5th day of infection, I had plasma with antibodies from other people put into my body. I left the treatment with a severe sore throat and fever. I woke up the next morning with no symptoms exceed extreme fatigue. For me, like Donald Trump, it worked like a miracle. The one thing about plasma, in order to have a chance to work it must be taken early in the infection cycle.

---

People like to build fear around potential outcomes while ignoring the actual outcomes.

D. C. Bear said:

---

br53 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

br53 said:

---

It's funny when it comes to abortion liberals scream my body my choice but over a vaccine they want to force everyone to get it and carry around paperwork. Hey if you took that much precaution over a virus try wearing a condom or taking birth control.

---

Apples and oranges.

Vaccine not only helps you, it helps everybody. More ppl vaccinated means fewer cases means ppl who cant be vaxed because they're got some kind of immune disorder or are undergoing chemo are less vulnerable.

So it's both an individual good and a public good.

That's why it's not a controversy that public schools require that kids be vaxed and why most ppl don't argue with that.

Whereas an abortion only affects the woman and the father, if he's even involved. I know some ppl think forcing every woman who gets pregnant to give birth contributes to the public good; I think there's an equally good argument that making women, inc victims of rape and incest, give birth has a negative impact on society; ppl who are well-equipped and eager to raise kids don't have abortions. We already have more kids in the foster system than we can adequately care for. But my overweeming view here is that the govt simply has no place in the woman's decision about what to do if she gets pregnant and the govt should butt out.

Making a woman carry for 9 months in a country where there's no guaranteed access to healthcare for her after the kid comes or employment support or access to child care she can afford is also significantly different than requiring somebody spend the 15 minutes it takes to a free shot in order to come to work or get on a plane. You're saddling the woman with an unfunded liability the extent of which is impossible to predict (suppose the child is disabled and needs 24/7 care from a parent) and then telling her she can give the child up for adoption if she can't support it. That's inhumane.

My employer set up the appt and gave everyone shots and then said anyone who didn't get a shot by X date might face termination. That still offers a choice. You don't want the shot? Then find another job.

---

Your argument is flawed because although I get vaccinated it doesnt mean that I cant get COVID and still pass it on to others. The government has no place telling people to get a vaccine when they dont know all the side effects and what long term issues it may cause. What if it causes fertility issues? Your argument concerning abortion carries zero weight. If she is worried about having a child that is disabled or not being able to care for it she should get on birth control (many different options), make sure that her partner wears a condom, or abstain from sex. There is nothing inhumane about it. These people that you are saying cant afford birth control and healthcare have no problem owning 75" televisions, Luis Vuitton purses and having the latest smart phone. You liberals cant have it both ways, those days are over.

---

Evidence suggests that if you are vaccinated you won't get COVID or pass it along to others.

---

cruise ship of vax only passengers and crew gets positive covid cases while at sea

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

Viruses respond to evolutionary pressure. Most tend to become less deadly so as not to kill off the host before spreading. In this case the virus spreads unusually well for an unusually long time before symptoms appear. It also takes an unusually long time to kill after symptoms appear. So the evolutionary pressure is less. There's already evidence that some variants are more deadly. They also evolve to become more transmissible, and there's evidence of that too.

---

You forgot one critical factor. It rarely kills, especially if it isn't helped by other comorbidities, and there's only speculation variants are more deadly, and even those are by minute factors. In fact there's a better case to be made that the virus was deadlier last March through May, and has been steadily declining in severity ever since.

India will reach herd immunity by rapid spread, not vaccines. It's just not logistically possible to vaccinate a Billion+ people with a fast spreading virus. But ratios of severity, even with new strains, continue to decline.

---

You're confusing lethality of the virus with severity of outcomes. It may kill a relatively small percentage of patients compared to some other viruses, but if it kills a higher percentage than some others and if enough people get it, it can become a leading cause of death (third most common in 2020, to be exact). That's not rare by any measure. Death rates are declining for various reasons, including better treatment and especially vaccines. That's a separate question from the inherent lethality of new strains. And even if a variant only increases transmissibility, that's a problem in itself.

---

That's so twisted from actual viral outcome and process I don't know where to address.

---

I know the feeling.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Question - why does anyone care if someone else gets the vaccine?

---

Answer: herd immunity and variants.

---

Herd immunity works with people getting sick. Again, why care? Either the vaccine works, or it doesn't. If you have had the vaccine, it does not matter if the person next you is sick.

---

It emphatically doesn't work with people getting sick. It matters because vaccines don't just work or not work. They may protect the great majority of people, but there are always some who can't take them or can't benefit from them.

---

And as you said, with people getting sick, new variants (and more dangerous) may render the vaccine ineffective, preventing herd immunity.

---

Viruses typically mutate and weaken.

---

This one isn't typical.

---

Without further human intervention, it will act accordingly. The natural protein process is the future of Covid 19.

---

Viruses respond to evolutionary pressure. Most tend to become less deadly so as not to kill off the host before spreading. In this case the virus spreads unusually well for an unusually long time before symptoms appear. It also takes an unusually long time to kill after symptoms appear. So the evolutionary pressure is less. There's already evidence that some variants are more deadly. They also evolve to become more transmissible, and there's evidence of that too.

---

You forgot one critical factor. It rarely kills, especially if it isn't helped by other comorbidities, and there's only speculation variants are more deadly, and even those are by minute factors. In fact there's a better case to be made that the virus was deadlier last March through May, and has been steadily declining in severity ever since.

India will reach herd immunity by rapid spread, not vaccines. It's just not logistically possible to vaccinate a Billion+ people with a fast spreading virus. But ratios of severity, even with new strains, continue to decline.

---

You're confusing lethality of the virus with severity of outcomes. It may kill a relatively small percentage of patients compared to some other viruses, but if it kills a higher percentage than some others and if enough people get it, it can become a leading cause of death (third most common in 2020, to be exact). That's not rare by any measure. Death rates are declining for various reasons, including better treatment and especially vaccines. That's a separate question from the inherent lethality of new strains. And even if a variant only increases transmissibility, that's a problem in itself.

---

That's so twisted from actual viral outcome and process I don't know where to address.

---

I know the feeling.

---

Yeah dippy boy, you are the feeling, the feeling of mental masturbations around here

You say a lot of nothingness, that's his definition of what you wrote ....... nothing of value!

About all you do here

4th and Inches said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

br53 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

br53 said:

---

It's funny when it comes to abortion liberals scream my body my choice but over a vaccine they want to force everyone to get it and carry around paperwork. Hey if you took that much precaution over a virus try wearing a condom or taking birth control.

---

Apples and oranges.

Vaccine not only helps you, it helps everybody. More ppl vaccinated means fewer cases means ppl who cant be vaxed because they're got some kind of immune disorder or are undergoing chemo are less vulnerable.

So it's both an individual good and a public good.

That's why it's not a controversy that public schools require that kids be vaxed and why most ppl don't argue with that.

Whereas an abortion only affects the woman and the father, if he's even involved. I know some ppl think forcing every woman who gets pregnant to give birth contributes to the public good; I think there's an equally good argument that making women, inc victims of rape and incest, give birth has a negative impact on society; ppl who are well-equipped and eager to raise kids don't have abortions. We already have more kids in the foster system than we can adequately care for. But my overweeming view here is that the govt simply has no place in the woman's decision about what to do if she gets pregnant and the govt should butt out.

Making a woman carry for 9 months in a country where there's no guaranteed access to healthcare for her after the kid comes or employment support or access to child care she can afford is also significantly different than requiring somebody spend the 15 minutes it takes to a free shot in order to come to work or get on a plane. You're saddling the woman with an unfunded liability the extent of which is impossible to predict (suppose the child is disabled and needs 24/7 care from a parent) and then telling her she can give the child up for adoption if she can't support it. That's inhumane.

My employer set up the appt and gave everyone shots and then said anyone who didn't get a shot by X date might face termination. That still offers a choice. You don't want the shot? Then find another job.

---

Your argument is flawed because although I get vaccinated it doesnt mean that I cant get COVID and still pass it on to others. The government has no place telling people to get a vaccine when they dont know all the side effects and what long term issues it may cause. What if it causes fertility issues? Your argument concerning abortion carries zero weight. If she is worried about having a child that is disabled or not being able to care for it she should get on birth control (many different options), make sure that her partner wears a condom, or abstain from sex. There is nothing inhumane about it. These people that you are saying cant afford birth control and healthcare have no problem owning 75" televisions, Luis Vuitton purses and having the latest smart phone. You liberals cant have it both ways, those days are over.

---

Evidence suggests that if you are vaccinated you won't get COVID or pass it along to others.

---

cruise ship of vax only passengers and crew gets positive covid cases while at sea

---

How about a link to specific case you are referencing?