Disagree with the age of 12. That age is relevant to the safety of the vaccine, not correct strategy toward dealing with the virus. There is certainly an age point where immune system effectiveness is better enhanced with a vaccine. The teen years are not those years.Booray said:You outline two ways to get to "herd immunity": take the vaccine or get the disease. There is absolutely no question that for anyone over 12 years old, the safer path is to take the vaccine. While that may be particularly true for those with relevant co-morbidities, it is not untrue for those without. On top of that, we get there faster with the vaccine.whiterock said:yeah, it's been badly abused for political means. those in charge of pandemic response have worked desperately to not just change its meaning, but actually undermine its credibility as a valid concept. Political cadres have worked overtime in support. Same for the notion of natural immunity from surviving the disease.Sam Lowry said:
"Herd immunity" is a term that's suffered a lot of abuse. We're not nearly there and not likely to be any time soon.
It's not a threshold. It's a process. The more immune people in a population, the harder it is for a pathogen ti find a viable host. That slows the rate of transmission. Most sources suggest 70% is where mathematics start impeding the pace of transmission. When we add up the vaxxed plus the known survivors plus reasonable estimates of unknown survivors, we are comfortably beyond 70%.
And each new infection is a de facto vaccination, so we will eventually reach 95% immunity if we don't vaccinate a single new person. And since the unvaxxed tend to be in demographics which are at minuscule risk of death from the disease in question, that process should not pose a serious national health health policy crisis.
But the people who have power in such things are loathe to let it go. And the left is addicted to virtue posture. So here we are.
So the fact that the government is asking-not forcing-people-to take the safe, effective route to end the pandemic is not tyranny. Its not a power grab. Its not virtue posturing. Its just common sense.
Realism About Vaccine Hesitancy
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144 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by quash
muddybrazos said:There is absolutely a question about the long term safety of the vaccine.Booray said:You outline two ways to get to "herd immunity": take the vaccine or get the disease. There is absolutely no question that for anyone over 12 years old, the safer path is to take the vaccine. While that may be particularly true for those with relevant co-morbidities, it is not untrue for those without. On top of that, we get there faster with the vaccine.whiterock said:yeah, it's been badly abused for political means. those in charge of pandemic response have worked desperately to not just change its meaning, but actually undermine its credibility as a valid concept. Political cadres have worked overtime in support. Same for the notion of natural immunity from surviving the disease.Sam Lowry said:
"Herd immunity" is a term that's suffered a lot of abuse. We're not nearly there and not likely to be any time soon.
It's not a threshold. It's a process. The more immune people in a population, the harder it is for a pathogen ti find a viable host. That slows the rate of transmission. Most sources suggest 70% is where mathematics start impeding the pace of transmission. When we add up the vaxxed plus the known survivors plus reasonable estimates of unknown survivors, we are comfortably beyond 70%.
And each new infection is a de facto vaccination, so we will eventually reach 95% immunity if we don't vaccinate a single new person. And since the unvaxxed tend to be in demographics which are at minuscule risk of death from the disease in question, that process should not pose a serious national health health policy crisis.
But the people who have power in such things are loathe to let it go. And the left is addicted to virtue posture. So here we are.
So the fact that the government is asking-not forcing-people-to take the safe, effective route to end the pandemic is not tyranny. Its not a power grab. Its not virtue posturing. Its just common sense.
Moderna launches clinical trial testing whether its Covid vaccine leads to miscarriages or stillbirths in pregnant women https://t.co/wNjKfUInuU
— Daily Mail Online (@MailOnline) July 14, 2021
I will wait for a little more research to be done before advocating children to inject this vax.
Long term. How long? The mRNA in the vaccine lasts 72 hours in the human body.
The study you refer to is a legitimate study of how the vax might affect a fetus during that 72 hours (144 for a second jab). So long term is nine months, and less to some extent given what we can learn in utero.
And, as Booray notes, kids under 12 aren't being vaccinated anyway.
The story is a little unclear but it looks like Moderna is trying to find a thousand women who got vaxxed before they knew they were pregnant. I know there is no express recommendation as to vax or not for pregnant women ("consult with your doctor") but if I knew I was pregnant I'd hesitate to get vaccinated. Pregnant women appear to have a little different response to the vax. But the women who got the jab before they knew do offer a good look at outcomes. Stay tuned.
Just hedge your statement by saying there is a question, but it is about relatively short term safety of the vaccine in pregnant women.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Um, so when he said "what an amazing team here at Baylor," you thought he was referring to God and not the medical professionals treating him?J.B.Katz said:
If he lives, it would be nice if he also thanked the medical professionals who saved his life in addition to thanking God.
Oi vey.
The thing to say 'oi vey" about is that Reeves denied COVID from the pulpit and preached vaccine resistance and then ended up in the ICU fighting for his life after contracting COVID.Mothra said:Um, so when he said "what an amazing team here at Baylor," you thought he was referring to God and not the medical professionals treating him?J.B.Katz said:
If he lives, it would be nice if he also thanked the medical professionals who saved his life in addition to thanking God.
Oi vey.
If he lives, and I hope he does, he owes the team members who treated him at their own personal risk a big fat apology.
Vaccine and COVID deniers like Reeves also cost the medical system dollars and beds. I really don't expect a guy like Reeves to come out of this humbled and encourage ppl to get vaccinated. But that's unlikely.
I understand why you are trying to change the subject, given that he complimented the very medical team treating him in the tweet you posted stating he needs to thank the medical team that treated him.J.B.Katz said:The thing to say 'oi vey" about is that Reeves denied COVID from the pulpit and preached vaccine resistance and then ended up in the ICU fighting for his life after contracting COVID.Mothra said:Um, so when he said "what an amazing team here at Baylor," you thought he was referring to God and not the medical professionals treating him?J.B.Katz said:
If he lives, it would be nice if he also thanked the medical professionals who saved his life in addition to thanking God.
Oi vey.
If he lives, and I hope he does, he owes the team members who treated him at their own personal risk a big fat apology.
Vaccine and COVID deniers like Reeves also cost the medical system dollars and beds. I really don't expect a guy like Reeves to come out of this humbled and encourage ppl to get vaccinated. But that's unlikely.
I suspect most of the medical team has been vaccinated and of course has nothing to worry about.
Then none of them go to Reeves' church.Mothra said:I understand why you are trying to change the subject, given that he complimented the very medical team treating him in the tweet you posted stating he needs to thank the medical team that treated him.J.B.Katz said:The thing to say 'oi vey" about is that Reeves denied COVID from the pulpit and preached vaccine resistance and then ended up in the ICU fighting for his life after contracting COVID.Mothra said:Um, so when he said "what an amazing team here at Baylor," you thought he was referring to God and not the medical professionals treating him?J.B.Katz said:
If he lives, it would be nice if he also thanked the medical professionals who saved his life in addition to thanking God.
Oi vey.
If he lives, and I hope he does, he owes the team members who treated him at their own personal risk a big fat apology.
Vaccine and COVID deniers like Reeves also cost the medical system dollars and beds. I really don't expect a guy like Reeves to come out of this humbled and encourage ppl to get vaccinated. But that's unlikely.
I suspect most of the medical team has been vaccinated and of course has nothing to worry about.
Lucky for him the medical professionals treating him didn't practice what he preached.
"We should live in a fact based world"
Impossible in a world where the Media is driven by the Internet, and the Internet runs on 'likes' and what's 'trending'.
Impossible in a world where the Media is driven by the Internet, and the Internet runs on 'likes' and what's 'trending'.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
The media isn't driven by the internet. It's driven by what the consumer will pay for or read/watch/listen to consistently enough to draw advertisers.Oldbear83 said:
"We should live in a fact based world"
Impossible in a world where the Media is driven by the Internet, and the Internet runs on 'likes' and what's 'trending'.
Everyone complains about the news media, ignoring the role they've played in shaping the modern media. Does most media suck? Absolutely. But that's only because society's tastes suck. We say we want unbiased news, but only tune in consistently to sensational/partisan crap.
These companies are laying off good journalists in favor of sensational, shock jock personalities because the shock jocks draw eyeballs while good journalism draws flies. It's the same reason all of ESPN and Fox's sports writers have been laid off while jackasses like Stephen A. Smith, Skip Bayless and Colin Cowherd rake in millions.
Yep, we will not get to it. With Covid I don't believe it's a concept that will actually ever exist.Sam Lowry said:
"Herd immunity" is a term that's suffered a lot of abuse. We're not nearly there and not likely to be any time soon.
I know multiple people right now Fully-vaccinated that have it, when I went to QT yesterday, mind you I don't go to the store much, but usually just to work, not a single person in there including employees had on a mask. I had one on, I'm the only one.
Great Britain is having a huge explosion of the Delta variant. Many of those getting it are vaccinated.
Our biggest hope is this finally mutating down to a less serious illness. It will always be with us, hopefully just in the form of a bad cold, not a deadly disease.
I can tell you from where I live and work, black folks do not like to wear a mask either. For some reason white conservatives are the boogy man when it comes to vaccinations and masks in the media, on the street it is a different story.midgett said:All these posts about the unvaccinated and vaccination hesitancy is clear evidence that you are racist.Sam Lowry said:
Thanks for posting. It's definitely food for thought. A few issues I notice:
-It's not clear how effective natural immunity is, and it's hard to tell without knowing how many have been infected. I know many people have decided not to be vaccinated after infection, but I question his presumption that they're acting on their doctors' advice. If anything I'd presume that most doctors would recommend vaccination anyway.
-Acknowledging slight risks contributes to vaccine hesitancy, but that's true with all vaccines. A certain amount of hesitancy is reasonable and rational. The elephant in the room is the widespread, irrational fear based on misinformation. That's a product of politics rather than science.
-An unvaccinated person's risk of encountering the disease is not necessarily decreasing. It was for a while, but in some areas it's increasing again due to low vaccination rates. Hospital admissions are starting to reflect this.
-The fact that we're not going to eradicate the virus doesn't necessarily mean we should treat it like a seasonal flu, at least not yet. This virus evolves differently. Flu itself can be extremely dangerous and may call for a more aggressive reaction when a new strain appears.
Blacks have a high rate of vaccination hesitancy.
You need to cease with these racist posts.
Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF
(I think this is how liberals do it.)
Surveys can say whatever they wish, but in the real world, hispanics and black folks both are not wearing masks at all where I live. Trump is no longer an excuse. It makes for an easy out, but it is woefully inaccurate at this point.
Asians of course lead the way in vaccination percentage in the United States.
followed by whites by about 15%
followed by blacks by an additional 15%
hispanics are about halfway between blacks and whites.
That is reality.
followed by whites by about 15%
followed by blacks by an additional 15%
hispanics are about halfway between blacks and whites.
That is reality.
Oldbear83 said:
"We should live in a fact based world"
Impossible in a world where the Media is driven by the Internet, and the Internet runs on 'likes' and what's 'trending'.
There are too many people who believe this bull*****
We can find objective truths.
We can agree that the earth is round, there have been humans on the moon, 9/11 was not an inside job and kids were shot at Sandy Hook. But we somehow have to ask the internet who won the last presidential election. And find out some are persuaded that the generally accepted answer is wrong.
It is easy to blame the media, it's what our leader did, but to do so is to shirk the responsibility we each have to sort out the bull***** And it is not all bull*****
We just need to use our bull**** detectors:
"According to the American Philosophical Association, critical thinking is "the process of purposeful, self-regulatory judgment." When we do critical thinking, we are reasoning, evaluating, and making decisions based on evidenceand doing so in a way that, according to the APA, "always seeks the truth with objectivity, integrity, and fair-mindedness.""
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
You can add Clay Travis to that list.bear2be2 said:The media isn't driven by the internet. It's driven by what the consumer will pay for or read/watch/listen to consistently enough to draw advertisers.Oldbear83 said:
"We should live in a fact based world"
Impossible in a world where the Media is driven by the Internet, and the Internet runs on 'likes' and what's 'trending'.
Everyone complains about the news media, ignoring the role they've played in shaping the modern media. Does most media suck? Absolutely. But that's only because society's tastes suck. We say we want unbiased news, but only tune in consistently to sensational/partisan crap.
These companies are laying off good journalists in favor of sensational, shock jock personalities because the shock jocks draw eyeballs while good journalism draws flies. It's the same reason all of ESPN and Fox's sports writers have been laid off while jackasses like Stephen A. Smith, Skip Bayless and Colin Cowherd rake in millions.
quash: "We can find objective truths."
We can, but too many today ignore them. You yourself have done that, quash, as have I.
It's easy to play on emotions and ignore harder, less pleasant warnings from the real world.
We can, but too many today ignore them. You yourself have done that, quash, as have I.
It's easy to play on emotions and ignore harder, less pleasant warnings from the real world.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
It's completely opposite where i live. Only black people and yankee transplants from NY are wearing masks. It's amazing how many black folks wear them around even outside.Forest Bueller_bf said:I can tell you from where I live and work, black folks do not like to wear a mask either. For some reason white conservatives are the boogy man when it comes to vaccinations and masks in the media, on the street it is a different story.midgett said:All these posts about the unvaccinated and vaccination hesitancy is clear evidence that you are racist.Sam Lowry said:
Thanks for posting. It's definitely food for thought. A few issues I notice:
-It's not clear how effective natural immunity is, and it's hard to tell without knowing how many have been infected. I know many people have decided not to be vaccinated after infection, but I question his presumption that they're acting on their doctors' advice. If anything I'd presume that most doctors would recommend vaccination anyway.
-Acknowledging slight risks contributes to vaccine hesitancy, but that's true with all vaccines. A certain amount of hesitancy is reasonable and rational. The elephant in the room is the widespread, irrational fear based on misinformation. That's a product of politics rather than science.
-An unvaccinated person's risk of encountering the disease is not necessarily decreasing. It was for a while, but in some areas it's increasing again due to low vaccination rates. Hospital admissions are starting to reflect this.
-The fact that we're not going to eradicate the virus doesn't necessarily mean we should treat it like a seasonal flu, at least not yet. This virus evolves differently. Flu itself can be extremely dangerous and may call for a more aggressive reaction when a new strain appears.
Blacks have a high rate of vaccination hesitancy.
You need to cease with these racist posts.
Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF
(I think this is how liberals do it.)
Surveys can say whatever they wish, but in the real world, hispanics and black folks both are not wearing masks at all where I live. Trump is no longer an excuse. It makes for an easy out, but it is woefully inaccurate at this point.
...And Benghazi happened because of a you tube videoBooray said:They "are not concerned by the possibility." They think the possibility is reality. When it is not.Canon said:Booray said:Canon said:Booray said:
Tough to convince people that believe the vaccine is a microchip carrier. The United States of Dumb.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/51-percent-unvaccinated-individuals-think-183243969.html
Not really, no. Just extrapolative. Tattoo or microchip, it's the effect that people don't particularly want, rather than the specific technology. They don't like the idea of being literally branded like cattle for their choices. Their lack of trust in government, which gives lead to extrapolations like this, is the fault of no one but politicians who collude with tech giants and the Davos set.Quote:
Rumours took hold in March when Mr Gates said in an interview that eventually "we will have some digital certificates" which would be used to show who'd recovered, been tested and ultimately who received a vaccine. He made no mention of microchips.
That response led to one widely shared article, under the headline: "Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus".
The article makes reference to a study, funded by The Gates Foundation, into a technology that could store someone's vaccine records in a special ink administered at the same time as an injection.
However, the technology is not a microchip and is more like an invisible tattoo. It has not been rolled out yet, would not allow people to be tracked and personal information would not be entered into a database, says Ana Jaklenec, a scientist involved in the study.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648
The really interesting thing is, the left seized on the microchip misconception to claim those people are rubes, instead of correcting them and saying the ACTUAL proposed plan was a TATTOO with special ink.
Why not just correct the misconception? Well, it's easier to cast your opposition as stupid rather than admit they did base their objections on a legitimate concern.
Neither the tattoo nor the microchip exist in connection with the vaccine. That is an objective fact not subject to debate. We should live in a fact based world
And I never said they did. But the data on what Gates proposed, what exists (quantum dot tattoos) and the fact he has addressed the idea with researchers are also facts. A government run by Democrats makes concern over potential use of this tech a viable thing and definitely destroys the notion that people concerned by the possibility are rubes.
We walked on the moon; it wasn't a soundstage in Hollywood. 9/11 was not a false flag operation. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Children were actually killed at Sandy Hook, 81 million US citizens voted for Joe Biden in 2020. The vaccines are safe and do not contain microchips or other tracking devices.
That's really good. I work in East Arlington and have quit asking people to put on a mask when they come into the office. I really wish it were that way here. I had a lady get mad at me cause I took both shots. Told me it was a government conspiracy. She is a black lady. I work in a poor neighborhood, attitudes may be different here. Obviously they are. I am just trying to stay well and not spread an illness.muddybrazos said:It's completely opposite where i live. Only black people and yankee transplants from NY are wearing masks. It's amazing how many black folks wear them around even outside.Forest Bueller_bf said:I can tell you from where I live and work, black folks do not like to wear a mask either. For some reason white conservatives are the boogy man when it comes to vaccinations and masks in the media, on the street it is a different story.midgett said:All these posts about the unvaccinated and vaccination hesitancy is clear evidence that you are racist.Sam Lowry said:
Thanks for posting. It's definitely food for thought. A few issues I notice:
-It's not clear how effective natural immunity is, and it's hard to tell without knowing how many have been infected. I know many people have decided not to be vaccinated after infection, but I question his presumption that they're acting on their doctors' advice. If anything I'd presume that most doctors would recommend vaccination anyway.
-Acknowledging slight risks contributes to vaccine hesitancy, but that's true with all vaccines. A certain amount of hesitancy is reasonable and rational. The elephant in the room is the widespread, irrational fear based on misinformation. That's a product of politics rather than science.
-An unvaccinated person's risk of encountering the disease is not necessarily decreasing. It was for a while, but in some areas it's increasing again due to low vaccination rates. Hospital admissions are starting to reflect this.
-The fact that we're not going to eradicate the virus doesn't necessarily mean we should treat it like a seasonal flu, at least not yet. This virus evolves differently. Flu itself can be extremely dangerous and may call for a more aggressive reaction when a new strain appears.
Blacks have a high rate of vaccination hesitancy.
You need to cease with these racist posts.
Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF
(I think this is how liberals do it.)
Surveys can say whatever they wish, but in the real world, hispanics and black folks both are not wearing masks at all where I live. Trump is no longer an excuse. It makes for an easy out, but it is woefully inaccurate at this point.
Rawhide said:...And Benghazi happened because of a you tube videoBooray said:They "are not concerned by the possibility." They think the possibility is reality. When it is not.Canon said:Booray said:Canon said:Booray said:
Tough to convince people that believe the vaccine is a microchip carrier. The United States of Dumb.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/51-percent-unvaccinated-individuals-think-183243969.html
Not really, no. Just extrapolative. Tattoo or microchip, it's the effect that people don't particularly want, rather than the specific technology. They don't like the idea of being literally branded like cattle for their choices. Their lack of trust in government, which gives lead to extrapolations like this, is the fault of no one but politicians who collude with tech giants and the Davos set.Quote:
Rumours took hold in March when Mr Gates said in an interview that eventually "we will have some digital certificates" which would be used to show who'd recovered, been tested and ultimately who received a vaccine. He made no mention of microchips.
That response led to one widely shared article, under the headline: "Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus".
The article makes reference to a study, funded by The Gates Foundation, into a technology that could store someone's vaccine records in a special ink administered at the same time as an injection.
However, the technology is not a microchip and is more like an invisible tattoo. It has not been rolled out yet, would not allow people to be tracked and personal information would not be entered into a database, says Ana Jaklenec, a scientist involved in the study.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648
The really interesting thing is, the left seized on the microchip misconception to claim those people are rubes, instead of correcting them and saying the ACTUAL proposed plan was a TATTOO with special ink.
Why not just correct the misconception? Well, it's easier to cast your opposition as stupid rather than admit they did base their objections on a legitimate concern.
Neither the tattoo nor the microchip exist in connection with the vaccine. That is an objective fact not subject to debate. We should live in a fact based world
And I never said they did. But the data on what Gates proposed, what exists (quantum dot tattoos) and the fact he has addressed the idea with researchers are also facts. A government run by Democrats makes concern over potential use of this tech a viable thing and definitely destroys the notion that people concerned by the possibility are rubes.
We walked on the moon; it wasn't a soundstage in Hollywood. 9/11 was not a false flag operation. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Children were actually killed at Sandy Hook, 81 million US citizens voted for Joe Biden in 2020. The vaccines are safe and do not contain microchips or other tracking devices.
He gave six straight facts. That are still true.
That Benghazi line was propounded for less than two weeks. Anybody that still believes it is up there with birthers and hookers.
Are you on Team August?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
It's always cute to see how hard quash tries to sell himself as a regular guy,
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
So if the Obama admin pushed it for longer than 2 weeks, only then it's a lie? Or is that another one of your exceptions... kind of like how you're against for qualified immunity unless it's a Capitol Cop?quash said:Rawhide said:...And Benghazi happened because of a you tube videoBooray said:They "are not concerned by the possibility." They think the possibility is reality. When it is not.Canon said:Booray said:Canon said:Booray said:
Tough to convince people that believe the vaccine is a microchip carrier. The United States of Dumb.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/51-percent-unvaccinated-individuals-think-183243969.html
Not really, no. Just extrapolative. Tattoo or microchip, it's the effect that people don't particularly want, rather than the specific technology. They don't like the idea of being literally branded like cattle for their choices. Their lack of trust in government, which gives lead to extrapolations like this, is the fault of no one but politicians who collude with tech giants and the Davos set.Quote:
Rumours took hold in March when Mr Gates said in an interview that eventually "we will have some digital certificates" which would be used to show who'd recovered, been tested and ultimately who received a vaccine. He made no mention of microchips.
That response led to one widely shared article, under the headline: "Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus".
The article makes reference to a study, funded by The Gates Foundation, into a technology that could store someone's vaccine records in a special ink administered at the same time as an injection.
However, the technology is not a microchip and is more like an invisible tattoo. It has not been rolled out yet, would not allow people to be tracked and personal information would not be entered into a database, says Ana Jaklenec, a scientist involved in the study.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648
The really interesting thing is, the left seized on the microchip misconception to claim those people are rubes, instead of correcting them and saying the ACTUAL proposed plan was a TATTOO with special ink.
Why not just correct the misconception? Well, it's easier to cast your opposition as stupid rather than admit they did base their objections on a legitimate concern.
Neither the tattoo nor the microchip exist in connection with the vaccine. That is an objective fact not subject to debate. We should live in a fact based world
And I never said they did. But the data on what Gates proposed, what exists (quantum dot tattoos) and the fact he has addressed the idea with researchers are also facts. A government run by Democrats makes concern over potential use of this tech a viable thing and definitely destroys the notion that people concerned by the possibility are rubes.
We walked on the moon; it wasn't a soundstage in Hollywood. 9/11 was not a false flag operation. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Children were actually killed at Sandy Hook, 81 million US citizens voted for Joe Biden in 2020. The vaccines are safe and do not contain microchips or other tracking devices.
He gave six straight facts. That are still true.
That Benghazi line was propounded for less than two weeks. Anybody that still believes it is up there with birthers and hookers.
Are you on Team August?
Are you team, "but Trump told people to drink bleach" and/or team Russian collusion?
Maybe you're team mask mandate and/or vaccination passport.
No kiddin'Oldbear83 said:
It's always cute to see how hard quash tries to sell himself as a regular guy,
The sad thing, sometimes I think he actually believes himself to be a Libertarian
Were I live is similar. to muddy. At Kroger and Lowe's outside even at the park walking trails there are lots of black folks both old and young still wearing a mask.muddybrazos said:It's completely opposite where i live. Only black people and yankee transplants from NY are wearing masks. It's amazing how many black folks wear them around even outside.Forest Bueller_bf said:I can tell you from where I live and work, black folks do not like to wear a mask either. For some reason white conservatives are the boogy man when it comes to vaccinations and masks in the media, on the street it is a different story.midgett said:All these posts about the unvaccinated and vaccination hesitancy is clear evidence that you are racist.Sam Lowry said:
Thanks for posting. It's definitely food for thought. A few issues I notice:
-It's not clear how effective natural immunity is, and it's hard to tell without knowing how many have been infected. I know many people have decided not to be vaccinated after infection, but I question his presumption that they're acting on their doctors' advice. If anything I'd presume that most doctors would recommend vaccination anyway.
-Acknowledging slight risks contributes to vaccine hesitancy, but that's true with all vaccines. A certain amount of hesitancy is reasonable and rational. The elephant in the room is the widespread, irrational fear based on misinformation. That's a product of politics rather than science.
-An unvaccinated person's risk of encountering the disease is not necessarily decreasing. It was for a while, but in some areas it's increasing again due to low vaccination rates. Hospital admissions are starting to reflect this.
-The fact that we're not going to eradicate the virus doesn't necessarily mean we should treat it like a seasonal flu, at least not yet. This virus evolves differently. Flu itself can be extremely dangerous and may call for a more aggressive reaction when a new strain appears.
Blacks have a high rate of vaccination hesitancy.
You need to cease with these racist posts.
Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF
(I think this is how liberals do it.)
Surveys can say whatever they wish, but in the real world, hispanics and black folks both are not wearing masks at all where I live. Trump is no longer an excuse. It makes for an easy out, but it is woefully inaccurate at this point.
This is unlikely to reduce vaccine hesitancy among those who are waiting and watching. There is probably another subset among the not yet vaxed group that is just apathetic and not paying attention to anything.
2/ The new figure means CDC has now received more reports of deaths following Covid vaccination than ALL OTHER VACCINES COMBINED IN THE 30-YEAR HISTORY OF VAERS.
— Alex Berenson (@AlexBerenson) July 21, 2021
It is not clear why more than 6,000 death reports were added to VAERS in a week. Perhaps @CDCDirector can explain.
What started as a virus has mutated into an IQ test.
Rawhide said:So if the Obama admin pushed it for longer than 2 weeks, only then it's a lie? Or is that another one of your exceptions... kind of like how you're against for qualified immunity unless it's a Capitol Cop?quash said:Rawhide said:...And Benghazi happened because of a you tube videoBooray said:They "are not concerned by the possibility." They think the possibility is reality. When it is not.Canon said:Booray said:Canon said:Booray said:
Tough to convince people that believe the vaccine is a microchip carrier. The United States of Dumb.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/51-percent-unvaccinated-individuals-think-183243969.html
Not really, no. Just extrapolative. Tattoo or microchip, it's the effect that people don't particularly want, rather than the specific technology. They don't like the idea of being literally branded like cattle for their choices. Their lack of trust in government, which gives lead to extrapolations like this, is the fault of no one but politicians who collude with tech giants and the Davos set.Quote:
Rumours took hold in March when Mr Gates said in an interview that eventually "we will have some digital certificates" which would be used to show who'd recovered, been tested and ultimately who received a vaccine. He made no mention of microchips.
That response led to one widely shared article, under the headline: "Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus".
The article makes reference to a study, funded by The Gates Foundation, into a technology that could store someone's vaccine records in a special ink administered at the same time as an injection.
However, the technology is not a microchip and is more like an invisible tattoo. It has not been rolled out yet, would not allow people to be tracked and personal information would not be entered into a database, says Ana Jaklenec, a scientist involved in the study.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648
The really interesting thing is, the left seized on the microchip misconception to claim those people are rubes, instead of correcting them and saying the ACTUAL proposed plan was a TATTOO with special ink.
Why not just correct the misconception? Well, it's easier to cast your opposition as stupid rather than admit they did base their objections on a legitimate concern.
Neither the tattoo nor the microchip exist in connection with the vaccine. That is an objective fact not subject to debate. We should live in a fact based world
And I never said they did. But the data on what Gates proposed, what exists (quantum dot tattoos) and the fact he has addressed the idea with researchers are also facts. A government run by Democrats makes concern over potential use of this tech a viable thing and definitely destroys the notion that people concerned by the possibility are rubes.
We walked on the moon; it wasn't a soundstage in Hollywood. 9/11 was not a false flag operation. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Children were actually killed at Sandy Hook, 81 million US citizens voted for Joe Biden in 2020. The vaccines are safe and do not contain microchips or other tracking devices.
He gave six straight facts. That are still true.
That Benghazi line was propounded for less than two weeks. Anybody that still believes it is up there with birthers and hookers.
Are you on Team August?
Are you team, "but Trump told people to drink bleach" and/or team Russian collusion?
Maybe you're team mask mandate and/or vaccination passport.
I never, ever, even by implication, carved out an exception for Capitol Cops. I challenged you to explain how the officer denied Ms. Babbitt her civil rights (the predicate for a sec. 1983 suit) and you never did. QI doesn't even arise without that predicate. Abolish QI.
My opposition to the last administration was clearly expressed in terms of policy positions (trade war, tariffs, sucking up to dictators, believing communists over Americans, things like that). And I praised them when merited. As one of the few people around here who read the Mueller Report in its entirety I would only go so far as attempted collusion; but the much better case was made for obstruction.
You appear to have a mistaken assumption about my position on masks. Let me say it one more time for you: "Give us information, not orders." As to vaccine passports I have said, repeatedly, that I will be glad to participate in private apps, where I can exert some control over who gets my medical info, that allow me access to businesses or whatever. I'm flying internationally in a couple of weeks without a vaccine passport. Huh.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Because it became political.J.B.Katz said:
What started as a virus has mutated into an IQ test.
muddybrazos said:There is absolutley a question about the long term safety of the vaccine.Booray said:You outline two ways to get to "herd immunity": take the vaccine or get the disease. There is absolutely no question that for anyone over 12 years old, the safer path is to take the vaccine. While that may be particularly true for those with relevant co-morbidities, it is not untrue for those without. On top of that, we get there faster with the vaccine.whiterock said:yeah, it's been badly abused for political means. those in charge of pandemic response have worked desperately to not just change its meaning, but actually undermine its credibility as a valid concept. Political cadres have worked overtime in support. Same for the notion of natural immunity from surviving the disease.Sam Lowry said:
"Herd immunity" is a term that's suffered a lot of abuse. We're not nearly there and not likely to be any time soon.
It's not a threshold. It's a process. The more immune people in a population, the harder it is for a pathogen ti find a viable host. That slows the rate of transmission. Most sources suggest 70% is where mathematics start impeding the pace of transmission. When we add up the vaxxed plus the known survivors plus reasonable estimates of unknown survivors, we are comfortably beyond 70%.
And each new infection is a de facto vaccination, so we will eventually reach 95% immunity if we don't vaccinate a single new person. And since the unvaxxed tend to be in demographics which are at minuscule risk of death from the disease in question, that process should not pose a serious national health health policy crisis.
But the people who have power in such things are loathe to let it go. And the left is addicted to virtue posture. So here we are.
So the fact that the government is asking-not forcing-people-to take the safe, effective route to end the pandemic is not tyranny. Its not a power grab. Its not virtue posturing. Its just common sense.
Moderna launches clinical trial testing whether its Covid vaccine leads to miscarriages or stillbirths in pregnant women https://t.co/wNjKfUInuU
— Daily Mail Online (@MailOnline) July 14, 2021
I will wait for a little more research to be done before advocating children to inject this vax.
Moderna is required to do this by the FDA if they want full approval. You make it sound like they are worried, or think there might be issues with pregnancies, but they actually think there is no chance of that, but they still need to do due diligence.
Jacques Strap said:
This is unlikely to reduce vaccine hesitancy among those who are waiting and watching. There is probably another subset among the not yet vaxed group that is just apathetic and not paying attention to anything.2/ The new figure means CDC has now received more reports of deaths following Covid vaccination than ALL OTHER VACCINES COMBINED IN THE 30-YEAR HISTORY OF VAERS.
— Alex Berenson (@AlexBerenson) July 21, 2021
It is not clear why more than 6,000 death reports were added to VAERS in a week. Perhaps @CDCDirector can explain.
This is misinformation. The bottom tweet sounds like wow, what a surprise, maybe someone could explain this but hasn't yet. Not true.
And you make it sound like these are covid caused or related deaths. False.
Quote:
When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.
Good for moderna but if you're a woman and take this vax while pregnant you're out of your mind. They don't want you to even eat sushi or drink a lot of caffeine but you'll take a vax with who knows what in it. Good luck with that.Porteroso said:muddybrazos said:There is absolutley a question about the long term safety of the vaccine.Booray said:You outline two ways to get to "herd immunity": take the vaccine or get the disease. There is absolutely no question that for anyone over 12 years old, the safer path is to take the vaccine. While that may be particularly true for those with relevant co-morbidities, it is not untrue for those without. On top of that, we get there faster with the vaccine.whiterock said:yeah, it's been badly abused for political means. those in charge of pandemic response have worked desperately to not just change its meaning, but actually undermine its credibility as a valid concept. Political cadres have worked overtime in support. Same for the notion of natural immunity from surviving the disease.Sam Lowry said:
"Herd immunity" is a term that's suffered a lot of abuse. We're not nearly there and not likely to be any time soon.
It's not a threshold. It's a process. The more immune people in a population, the harder it is for a pathogen ti find a viable host. That slows the rate of transmission. Most sources suggest 70% is where mathematics start impeding the pace of transmission. When we add up the vaxxed plus the known survivors plus reasonable estimates of unknown survivors, we are comfortably beyond 70%.
And each new infection is a de facto vaccination, so we will eventually reach 95% immunity if we don't vaccinate a single new person. And since the unvaxxed tend to be in demographics which are at minuscule risk of death from the disease in question, that process should not pose a serious national health health policy crisis.
But the people who have power in such things are loathe to let it go. And the left is addicted to virtue posture. So here we are.
So the fact that the government is asking-not forcing-people-to take the safe, effective route to end the pandemic is not tyranny. Its not a power grab. Its not virtue posturing. Its just common sense.
Moderna launches clinical trial testing whether its Covid vaccine leads to miscarriages or stillbirths in pregnant women https://t.co/wNjKfUInuU
— Daily Mail Online (@MailOnline) July 14, 2021
I will wait for a little more research to be done before advocating children to inject this vax.
Moderna is required to do this by the FDA if they want full approval. You make it sound like they are worried, or think there might be issues with pregnancies, but they actually think there is no chance of that, but they still need to do due diligence.
quash said:Rawhide said:So if the Obama admin pushed it for longer than 2 weeks, only then it's a lie? Or is that another one of your exceptions... kind of like how you're against for qualified immunity unless it's a Capitol Cop?quash said:Rawhide said:...And Benghazi happened because of a you tube videoBooray said:They "are not concerned by the possibility." They think the possibility is reality. When it is not.Canon said:Booray said:Canon said:Booray said:
Tough to convince people that believe the vaccine is a microchip carrier. The United States of Dumb.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/51-percent-unvaccinated-individuals-think-183243969.html
Not really, no. Just extrapolative. Tattoo or microchip, it's the effect that people don't particularly want, rather than the specific technology. They don't like the idea of being literally branded like cattle for their choices. Their lack of trust in government, which gives lead to extrapolations like this, is the fault of no one but politicians who collude with tech giants and the Davos set.Quote:
Rumours took hold in March when Mr Gates said in an interview that eventually "we will have some digital certificates" which would be used to show who'd recovered, been tested and ultimately who received a vaccine. He made no mention of microchips.
That response led to one widely shared article, under the headline: "Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus".
The article makes reference to a study, funded by The Gates Foundation, into a technology that could store someone's vaccine records in a special ink administered at the same time as an injection.
However, the technology is not a microchip and is more like an invisible tattoo. It has not been rolled out yet, would not allow people to be tracked and personal information would not be entered into a database, says Ana Jaklenec, a scientist involved in the study.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648
The really interesting thing is, the left seized on the microchip misconception to claim those people are rubes, instead of correcting them and saying the ACTUAL proposed plan was a TATTOO with special ink.
Why not just correct the misconception? Well, it's easier to cast your opposition as stupid rather than admit they did base their objections on a legitimate concern.
Neither the tattoo nor the microchip exist in connection with the vaccine. That is an objective fact not subject to debate. We should live in a fact based world
And I never said they did. But the data on what Gates proposed, what exists (quantum dot tattoos) and the fact he has addressed the idea with researchers are also facts. A government run by Democrats makes concern over potential use of this tech a viable thing and definitely destroys the notion that people concerned by the possibility are rubes.
We walked on the moon; it wasn't a soundstage in Hollywood. 9/11 was not a false flag operation. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Children were actually killed at Sandy Hook, 81 million US citizens voted for Joe Biden in 2020. The vaccines are safe and do not contain microchips or other tracking devices.
He gave six straight facts. That are still true.
That Benghazi line was propounded for less than two weeks. Anybody that still believes it is up there with birthers and hookers.
Are you on Team August?
Are you team, "but Trump told people to drink bleach" and/or team Russian collusion?
Maybe you're team mask mandate and/or vaccination passport.
I never, ever, even by implication, carved out an exception for Capitol Cops. I challenged you to explain how the officer denied Ms. Babbitt her civil rights (the predicate for a sec. 1983 suit) and you never did. QI doesn't even arise without that predicate. Abolish QI.
Okay cool. So you think that the capitol cop that killed an unarmed woman shouldn't have qualified immunity and should face a jury for his actions. Gotcha.
My opposition to the last administration was clearly expressed in terms of policy positions (trade war, tariffs, sucking up to dictators, believing communists over Americans, things like that). And I praised them when merited. As one of the few people around here who read the Mueller Report in its entirety I would only go so far as attempted collusion; but the much better case was made for obstruction.
LOL.... you state "policy positions" then list "believing dictators, believing communists over Americans, and things like that"....those items and "things like that" are not policy positions.
Squish, you're just another triggered Trump hater that trying to pass himself off as a Libertarian. Maybe you actually believe you are one, who knows.
You appear to have a mistaken assumption about my position on masks. Let me say it one more time for you: "Give us information, not orders." As to vaccine passports I have said, repeatedly, that I will be glad to participate in private apps, where I can exert some control over who gets my medical info, that allow me access to businesses or whatever. I'm flying internationally in a couple of weeks without a vaccine passport. Huh.
Unfortunately there has been very little truth about Covid from the get go, I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do.Sam Lowry said:
Very little truth there at all, unfortunately.
Britain has had draconian measures all along and the vast majority of adults there have the shot and their death rate is still the same as the United States.
India looks pretty good on paper, a deeper look shows that when compared to expected deaths in a year it is evident their deaths are 10X those that have been reported from Covid. Mexico is similar, a death rate reported about the same as the US, real deaths likely far exceeding those officially reported.
Quote:
Jun 30, 2021 COVID-19-related deaths in Mexico likely exceed the confirmed toll ... said previously that fatalities likely far exceed the official count, ...
And you could report the same with most countries to be honest. This terrible illness was always going to kill a bunch of people. You get the shot, Covid evolves to something that the shot obviously doesn't cover.
It became a political football early on when officials weren't sure what it really was. Now a full year and a half after it got started, it still rages on and will continue to rage on.
We want to operate under the illusion we can control it. In a free society where people live real life, you simply can't. I think that is the issue most can't wrap their head around, it isn't something that can be controlled. Just like so many other facets of life.
NopeQuote:
I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do
If ppl had taken the vaccine, we wouldn't be experiencing a surge in cases.jupiter said:NopeQuote:
I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do
That's why Republicans are all of a sudden urging vaccination.
Too little too late for that effort. Just read these threads where some conservatives who generally have common sense are OK w/ vaccine skepticism.
We're abt to have another hard period & Republican "leaders" like Ron Johnson are in the driver's seat of that race to the bottom.
Oh yes, use an outlier, a totally isolated country that is surrounded by nothing but water, as a control variable.jupiter said:NopeQuote:
I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do
Of course if you live on an island where entrance can be completely restricted, you can restrict spread.
Europe and the United States do not have that luxury.
Well I should say we don't chose that luxury. Should we completely shut down the border and completely restrict flight in and out of other countries, that would work. Not going to happen.
New Zealand and what other outlier example you come up with, does not compare to the United States.
J.B.Katz said:If ppl had taken the vaccine, we wouldn't be experiencing a surge in cases.jupiter said:NopeQuote:
I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do
That's why Republicans are all of a sudden urging vaccination.
Too little too late for that effort. Just read these threads where some conservatives who generally have common sense are OK w/ vaccine skepticism.
We're abt to have another hard period & Republican "leaders" like Ron Johnson are in the driver's seat of that race to the bottom.
The unvaxxed are overwhelmingly not in GOP demographics.
It is truly amazing how lefties create the pseudo reality they need to make themselves feel better than others.