Rawhide said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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jupiter said:

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Quote:

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I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do

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Nope

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If ppl had taken the vaccine, we wouldn't be experiencing a surge in cases.

That's why Republicans are all of a sudden urging vaccination.

Too little too late for that effort. Just read these threads where some conservatives who generally have common sense are OK w/ vaccine skepticism.

We're abt to have another hard period & Republican "leaders" like Ron Johnson are in the driver's seat of that race to the bottom.

---

So you for mandatory vaccinations of all Americans? You think the gov't should be allowed to force people to accept vaccinations?

---

I think employers should be able to require vaccination. Mine does.
I think vaccination should be required to use public transit.
I think vaccination should be required to fly.
I think you go to the grocery and other businesses at your own risk but that THEY, not ******* customers, should decide how much risk they want their ees to endure.
I think ppl who opt not to get vaccinated should also sign a release that says the local E.R.s and hospitals can choose to not admit you if you get COVID
I don't think ppl admitted to ERs w/ COVID symptoms shld be allowed to refuse a test. That results in underreported cases, which Republicans are using to claim the problem's not as big as it is.
I think ppl, especially politicians, who promote false info about vaccines/vaccination should face sanctions for public endangerment. WI Sen Ron Johnson would be at the top of my list.
I think Republicans who don't support vaccination and other public health measures, esp those working hard to undermine those efforts, are blowing smoke out their asses if they are claiming what they're doing supports ecoomic recovery. Because it does the opposite. Republicans have hurt our recovery by promoting paranoia that resulted in us squandering a surplus of vaccines & now some are trying to backtrack, like DeSantis, but its too little and too late.

Oldbear83 said:

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I think you have a rigid and biased perspective.

I believe you 'think' less often than you post.

---

I think you're being too nice. I believe she doesn't think at all and lives her life based strictly on emotion and no logic.

Oldbear83 said:

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I think you have a rigid and biased perspective.

I believe you 'think' less often than you post.

---

I think you're the dumbest ******* on here and that's a tough competition.

J.B.Katz said:

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Rawhide said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

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jupiter said:

---

Quote:

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I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do

---

Nope

---

If ppl had taken the vaccine, we wouldn't be experiencing a surge in cases.

That's why Republicans are all of a sudden urging vaccination.

Too little too late for that effort. Just read these threads where some conservatives who generally have common sense are OK w/ vaccine skepticism.

We're abt to have another hard period & Republican "leaders" like Ron Johnson are in the driver's seat of that race to the bottom.

---

So you for mandatory vaccinations of all Americans? You think the gov't should be allowed to force people to accept vaccinations?

---

I think employers should be able to require vaccination. Mine does.
I think vaccination should be required to use public transit.
I think vaccination should be required to fly.
I think you go to the grocery and other businesses at your own risk but that THEY, not ******* customers, should decide how much risk they want their ees to endure.
I think ppl who opt not to get vaccinated should also sign a release that says the local E.R.s and hospitals can choose to not admit you if you get COVID
I don't think ppl admitted to ERs w/ COVID symptoms shld be allowed to refuse a test. That results in underreported cases, which Republicans are using to claim the problem's not as big as it is.
I think ppl, especially politicians, who promote false info about vaccines/vaccination should face sanctions for public endangerment. WI Sen Ron Johnson would be at the top of my list.
I think Republicans who don't support vaccination and other public health measures, esp those working hard to undermine those efforts, are blowing smoke out their asses if they are claiming what they're doing supports ecoomic recovery. Because it does the opposite. Republicans have hurt our recovery by promoting paranoia that resulted in us squandering a surplus of vaccines & now some are trying to backtrack, like DeSantis, but its too little and too late.

---

What do you think about the large number of black people that refuse to get vaccinated?

Rawhide said:

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quash said:

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Rawhide said:

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quash said:

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Rawhide said:

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Booray said:

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Canon said:

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Booray said:

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Canon said:

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Booray said:

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Tough to convince people that believe the vaccine is a microchip carrier. The United States of Dumb.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/51-percent-unvaccinated-individuals-think-183243969.html

---

Not really, no. Just extrapolative. Tattoo or microchip, it's the effect that people don't particularly want, rather than the specific technology. They don't like the idea of being literally branded like cattle for their choices. Their lack of trust in government, which gives lead to extrapolations like this, is the fault of no one but politicians who collude with tech giants and the Davos set.

Quote:

---

Rumours took hold in March when Mr Gates said in an interview that eventually "we will have some digital certificates" which would be used to show who'd recovered, been tested and ultimately who received a vaccine. He made no mention of microchips.
That response led to one widely shared article, under the headline: "Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus".
The article makes reference to a study, funded by The Gates Foundation, into a technology that could store someone's vaccine records in a special ink administered at the same time as an injection.
However, the technology is not a microchip and is more like an invisible tattoo. It has not been rolled out yet, would not allow people to be tracked and personal information would not be entered into a database, says Ana Jaklenec, a scientist involved in the study.

https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648

---

The really interesting thing is, the left seized on the microchip misconception to claim those people are rubes, instead of correcting them and saying the ACTUAL proposed plan was a TATTOO with special ink.

Why not just correct the misconception? Well, it's easier to cast your opposition as stupid rather than admit they did base their objections on a legitimate concern.

---

Neither the tattoo nor the microchip exist in connection with the vaccine. That is an objective fact not subject to debate. We should live in a fact based world

---

And I never said they did. But the data on what Gates proposed, what exists (quantum dot tattoos) and the fact he has addressed the idea with researchers are also facts. A government run by Democrats makes concern over potential use of this tech a viable thing and definitely destroys the notion that people concerned by the possibility are rubes.

---

They "are not concerned by the possibility." They think the possibility is reality. When it is not.

We walked on the moon; it wasn't a soundstage in Hollywood. 9/11 was not a false flag operation. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Children were actually killed at Sandy Hook, 81 million US citizens voted for Joe Biden in 2020. The vaccines are safe and do not contain microchips or other tracking devices.

---

...And Benghazi happened because of a you tube video

---

He gave six straight facts. That are still true.

That Benghazi line was propounded for less than two weeks. Anybody that still believes it is up there with birthers and hookers.

Are you on Team August?

---

So if the Obama admin pushed it for longer than 2 weeks, only then it's a lie? Or is that another one of your exceptions... kind of like how you're against for qualified immunity unless it's a Capitol Cop?

Are you team, "but Trump told people to drink bleach" and/or team Russian collusion?

Maybe you're team mask mandate and/or vaccination passport.

---

I never, ever, even by implication, carved out an exception for Capitol Cops. I challenged you to explain how the officer denied Ms. Babbitt her civil rights (the predicate for a sec. 1983 suit) and you never did. QI doesn't even arise without that predicate. Abolish QI.

Okay cool. So you think that the capitol cop that killed an unarmed woman shouldn't have qualified immunity and should face a jury for his actions. Gotcha.

My opposition to the last administration was clearly expressed in terms of policy positions (trade war, tariffs, sucking up to dictators, believing communists over Americans, things like that). And I praised them when merited. As one of the few people around here who read the Mueller Report in its entirety I would only go so far as attempted collusion; but the much better case was made for obstruction.

LOL.... you state "policy positions" then list "believing dictators, believing communists over Americans, and things like that"....those items and "things like that" are not policy positions.

Squish, you're just another triggered Trump hater that trying to pass himself off as a Libertarian. Maybe you actually believe you are one, who knows.

You appear to have a mistaken assumption about my position on masks. Let me say it one more time for you: "Give us information, not orders." As to vaccine passports I have said, repeatedly, that I will be glad to participate in private apps, where I can exert some control over who gets my medical info, that allow me access to businesses or whatever. I'm flying internationally in a couple of weeks without a vaccine passport. Huh.

---

---

Don't misstate my position please: QI only arises if there is valid sec 1983 claim. You haven't met that burden.

Hey, if you think sucking up to dictators is good policy then you are free to believe whatever you want. We'll just have to disagree.

I like the way you just run right past the part where I said I praised them where merited. You're so bipartisan...

Then

Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 06:45am
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

Quote:

---

Results from this analysis of 46,307 trial participants build upon and confirm previously released data and demonstrate strong protection against COVID-19 through six months post-second dose. From the 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 in the trial, 850 cases of COVID-19 were in the placebo group and 77 cases were in the BNT162b2 group, corresponding to vaccine efficacy of 91.3% (95% confidence interval [CI, 89.0, 93.2]).

Thirty-two cases of severe disease, as defined by the CDC, were observed in the placebo group versus none in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating that the vaccine was 100% efficacious in this analysis against severe disease by the CDC definition (95% CI, [88.0,100.0]). Twenty-one severe cases, as defined by the FDA, were observed in the placebo group versus one case in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating 95.3% efficacy by the FDA definition (95% CI, [71.0, 99.9]).

---

Now

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

Quote:

---

TEL AVIVAbout half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.

Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government. Children under 16, most of whom haven't been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.

The government this week expanded its vaccination campaign to include all 12- to 15-year-olds after a jump in infections among schoolchildren in a town in central Israel. It has since quickly spread geographically and to other groups of the population.

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

Then

Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 06:45am
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

Quote:

---

Results from this analysis of 46,307 trial participants build upon and confirm previously released data and demonstrate strong protection against COVID-19 through six months post-second dose. From the 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 in the trial, 850 cases of COVID-19 were in the placebo group and 77 cases were in the BNT162b2 group, corresponding to vaccine efficacy of 91.3% (95% confidence interval [CI, 89.0, 93.2]).

Thirty-two cases of severe disease, as defined by the CDC, were observed in the placebo group versus none in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating that the vaccine was 100% efficacious in this analysis against severe disease by the CDC definition (95% CI, [88.0,100.0]). Twenty-one severe cases, as defined by the FDA, were observed in the placebo group versus one case in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating 95.3% efficacy by the FDA definition (95% CI, [71.0, 99.9]).

---

Now

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

Quote:

---

TEL AVIVAbout half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.

Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government. Children under 16, most of whom haven't been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.

The government this week expanded its vaccination campaign to include all 12- to 15-year-olds after a jump in infections among schoolchildren in a town in central Israel. It has since quickly spread geographically and to other groups of the population.

---

---

Doesn't your last paragraph make the case for requiring the vaccination of children?

https://kvia.com/coronavirus/2021/07/21/7-fully-vaccinated-el-pasoans-died-of-covid-in-past-2-weeks/

EL PASO, Texas The El Paso Department of Public Health disclosed Wednesday that seven El Pasoans had died over the past two weeks from Covid-19 despite having been fully vaccinated.

However, officials said all of the deceased did suffer from underlying health conditions and included:

• 1 man in his 50s
• 1 woman in her 50s
• 1 man in his 60s
• 2 women in their 60s
• 1 man in his 70s
• 1 man in his 90s

Despite those seven vaccinated deaths out of roughly 30 virus fatalities reported since July 8, officials stressed that getting vaccinated is still the best way to protect against Covid-19.

"The important thing to remember is we need not to forget that any vaccine is going to see a breakthrough case and depending on the person, the pre-existing conditions, and other factors associated to the patient, might make it more prone to develop complications and pass away," El Paso City/County Health Authority Dr. Hector Ocaranza told reporters during a briefing on Wednesday afternoon.

Ocaranza added that while none of the vaccines will make a person 100% immune to the coronavirus, getting vaccinated does greatly decrease your chances of having severe symptoms, being hospitalized and dying.

Health leaders didn't indicate which vaccine(s) the seven deceased victims had received. (I wish they would release this information.)

Osodecentx said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

Then

Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 06:45am
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

Quote:

---

Results from this analysis of 46,307 trial participants build upon and confirm previously released data and demonstrate strong protection against COVID-19 through six months post-second dose. From the 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 in the trial, 850 cases of COVID-19 were in the placebo group and 77 cases were in the BNT162b2 group, corresponding to vaccine efficacy of 91.3% (95% confidence interval [CI, 89.0, 93.2]).

Thirty-two cases of severe disease, as defined by the CDC, were observed in the placebo group versus none in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating that the vaccine was 100% efficacious in this analysis against severe disease by the CDC definition (95% CI, [88.0,100.0]). Twenty-one severe cases, as defined by the FDA, were observed in the placebo group versus one case in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating 95.3% efficacy by the FDA definition (95% CI, [71.0, 99.9]).

---

Now

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

Quote:

---

TEL AVIVAbout half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.

Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government. Children under 16, most of whom haven't been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.

The government this week expanded its vaccination campaign to include all 12- to 15-year-olds after a jump in infections among schoolchildren in a town in central Israel. It has since quickly spread geographically and to other groups of the population.

---

---

Doesn't your last paragraph make the case for requiring the vaccination of children?

---

I think you would want to look at the children under 15 (or whatever age cutoff) who have died or been hospitalized and see if they have any comorbidities before making that call. If children lacking comorbidities get infected but have no serious symptoms and do not require hospitalization they may not need a vaccine and be better off with natural immunity. Children with comorbidities may be a different story. Not my call but seems like you would want to see that data before dosing your kids.

https://kvia.com/coronavirus/2021/07/21/7-fully-vaccinated-el-pasoans-died-of-covid-in-past-2-weeks/

Quote:

---

LOS ANGELES (CNS) -- A relentless surge of COVID-19 cases continued Thursday in Los Angeles County as another 2,700 cases were reported, with the percentage of infections occurring among fully vaccinated residents steadily rising.

In fact, during the month of June, 20% of all newly reported COVID infections in the county occurred among people who had been fully vaccinated. That was up from 11% in May and 5% in April. But Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer said the increase is normal given the continued rise in the number of people who are getting fully vaccinated.


She also stressed that fully vaccinated people who become infected generally have extremely mild cases -- a benefit the vaccines have always promised.

"Very few of them ended up hospitalized, and even smaller numbers ended up passing away,'' Ferrer said. "So yes, if you are fully vaccinated you have a lot of protection, which is what the vaccines have always been best at -- protecting people from serious illness and death. And these vaccines, even with the Delta variant, are holding up really well.''

---

I cannot help but wonder.. is it the vaccine that helps these people avoid hospitalization or is it that they have no comorbidities and/or they are getting better treatment from Doctors in the early stages of the disease and they is why they avoid the hospital.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/07/23/pfizer-shot-just-39-effective-against-delta-infection-but-largely-prevents-severe-illness-israel-study-suggests/?sh=432e456f584f

Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, But Largely Prevents Severe Illness, Israel Study Suggests

Long read some clips below

Quote:

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Recent data from Israel's health ministry suggests Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine is far less effective at preventing infection and symptomatic illness with the Delta variant than with previous strains of coronavirus, a finding that conflicts with other research indicating high levels of protection against the contagious variant as countries around the world struggle to contain new waves of infection.

A full course of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was just 39% effective at preventing infections and 41% effective at preventing symptomatic infections caused by the Delta Covid-19 variant, according to Israel's health ministry, down from early estimates of 64% two weeks ago.

The figures, based on data from an unspecified number of people between June 20 and July 17, are significantly lower than previous estimates of the vaccine's efficacy against other variants, which initial clinical trials found to be 95%.

The Israel findings also conflict with several other studies assessing the vaccine's performance against the Delta variant, which indicated only slightly diminished degrees of protection against infection and mild illness (between 80% and 90%), including peer reviewed research from Public Health England published Wednesday.

The vaccine still provides very high levels of protection against hospitalization (92%) and severe illness (91%) caused by the Delta variant, the ministry said.

In a statement, Pfizer and BioNTech noted that while real-world data from Israel show vaccine efficacy in preventing infection and symptomatic disease to decline six months post-vaccination, "efficacy in preventing serious illnesses remains high."

It is possible Israel's findings diverge from other studies in reflection of the fact they have had access to vaccines for longer than most other parts of the world. In other words, it is the most up to date and accurate assessment of the Pfizer shot against Delta. However, the Israel health ministry has not revealed the data behind their results and there are a number of issues in the way the study appears to have been conducted that could create uncertainty. The study did not, for example, take the steps needed to rule out alternative explanations for the lower efficacy, such as bias in who is tested for Covid-19.

The Delta variant appears to be at least moderately resistant to many of the vaccines in widespread use, especially after just one shot. A recent study found the Johnson & Johnson shot to be just 33% effective at preventing symptomatic illness caused by the variant. (as a J&J guy that pretty much that sucks for me.)

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Quote:

---

I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do

---

Nope

---

If ppl had taken the vaccine, we wouldn't be experiencing a surge in cases.

That's why Republicans are all of a sudden urging vaccination.

Too little too late for that effort. Just read these threads where some conservatives who generally have common sense are OK w/ vaccine skepticism.

We're abt to have another hard period & Republican "leaders" like Ron Johnson are in the driver's seat of that race to the bottom.

---

So you for mandatory vaccinations of all Americans? You think the gov't should be allowed to force people to accept vaccinations?

---

I think ppl who opt not to get vaccinated should also sign a release that says the local E.R.s and hospitals can choose to not admit you if you get COVID

---

I know you think you are being smart here, but by far black Americans have the lowest vaccination rates.

So you are taking it to a new level with underserved population groups with this bigotry.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Quote:

---

I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do

---

Nope

---

If ppl had taken the vaccine, we wouldn't be experiencing a surge in cases.

That's why Republicans are all of a sudden urging vaccination.

Too little too late for that effort. Just read these threads where some conservatives who generally have common sense are OK w/ vaccine skepticism.

We're abt to have another hard period & Republican "leaders" like Ron Johnson are in the driver's seat of that race to the bottom.

---

So you for mandatory vaccinations of all Americans? You think the gov't should be allowed to force people to accept vaccinations?

---

I think ppl who opt not to get vaccinated should also sign a release that says the local E.R.s and hospitals can choose to not admit you if you get COVID

---

I know you think you are being smart here, but by far black Americans have the lowest vaccination rates.

So you are taking it to a new level with underserved population groups with this bigotry.

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

jupiter said:

---

Quote:

---

I believe one of the biggest myths is that we could stop a virus. You can't stop a virus. The deaths and illnesses were going to occur no matter what we do

---

Nope

---

If ppl had taken the vaccine, we wouldn't be experiencing a surge in cases.

That's why Republicans are all of a sudden urging vaccination.

Too little too late for that effort. Just read these threads where some conservatives who generally have common sense are OK w/ vaccine skepticism.

We're abt to have another hard period & Republican "leaders" like Ron Johnson are in the driver's seat of that race to the bottom.

---

So you for mandatory vaccinations of all Americans? You think the gov't should be allowed to force people to accept vaccinations?

---

I think ppl who opt not to get vaccinated should also sign a release that says the local E.R.s and hospitals can choose to not admit you if you get COVID

---

I know you think you are being smart here, but by far black Americans have the lowest vaccination rates.

So you are taking it to a new level with underserved population groups with this bigotry.

---

That is really my view. I don't care what your race or politics is.

Wondering why medical insurance plans haven't required vaccination in order to continue coverage. That's one reason my employer requires it. The company is self-insured, which means it sets aside money to pay medical insurance claims and hires a third-party administrator to designt the plan, contract with providers and pay the claims. Vaxed employees = lower costs.

If insurance agents who sell individual medical policies aren't already asking about vax status, what do you want to bet they'll start? And just refuse coverage to ppl who labor under the delusion that the vaccine is riskier than a case of COVID.

Jacques Strap said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

Then

Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 06:45am
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

Quote:

---

Results from this analysis of 46,307 trial participants build upon and confirm previously released data and demonstrate strong protection against COVID-19 through six months post-second dose. From the 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 in the trial, 850 cases of COVID-19 were in the placebo group and 77 cases were in the BNT162b2 group, corresponding to vaccine efficacy of 91.3% (95% confidence interval [CI, 89.0, 93.2]).

Thirty-two cases of severe disease, as defined by the CDC, were observed in the placebo group versus none in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating that the vaccine was 100% efficacious in this analysis against severe disease by the CDC definition (95% CI, [88.0,100.0]). Twenty-one severe cases, as defined by the FDA, were observed in the placebo group versus one case in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating 95.3% efficacy by the FDA definition (95% CI, [71.0, 99.9]).

---

Now

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

Quote:

---

TEL AVIVAbout half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.

Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government. Children under 16, most of whom haven't been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.

The government this week expanded its vaccination campaign to include all 12- to 15-year-olds after a jump in infections among schoolchildren in a town in central Israel. It has since quickly spread geographically and to other groups of the population.

---

---

Doesn't your last paragraph make the case for requiring the vaccination of children?

---

I think you would want to look at the children under 15 (or whatever age cutoff) who have died or been hospitalized and see if they have any comorbidities before making that call. If children lacking comorbidities get infected but have no serious symptoms and do not require hospitalization they may not need a vaccine and be better off with natural immunity. Children with comorbidities may be a different story. Not my call but seems like you would want to see that data before dosing your kids.

---

Out of the 600K or so deaths through July 7th there have been 331 children die between the ages of 0-17, this is out of a population of about 73 million.

For those 75-84 out of a population of about 15 million, there were 163,531 deaths.

So for 17 and under, one death per 220,544 children.
For ages 75-84, there is one death per 94 people.
For ages over 85 there is one death per 36 people.

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

Booray said:

---

Tough to convince people that believe the vaccine is a microchip carrier. The United States of Dumb.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/51-percent-unvaccinated-individuals-think-183243969.html

---

Not really, no. Just extrapolative. Tattoo or microchip, it's the effect that people don't particularly want, rather than the specific technology. They don't like the idea of being literally branded like cattle for their choices. Their lack of trust in government, which gives lead to extrapolations like this, is the fault of no one but politicians who collude with tech giants and the Davos set.

Quote:

---

Rumours took hold in March when Mr Gates said in an interview that eventually "we will have some digital certificates" which would be used to show who'd recovered, been tested and ultimately who received a vaccine. He made no mention of microchips.
That response led to one widely shared article, under the headline: "Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus".
The article makes reference to a study, funded by The Gates Foundation, into a technology that could store someone's vaccine records in a special ink administered at the same time as an injection.
However, the technology is not a microchip and is more like an invisible tattoo. It has not been rolled out yet, would not allow people to be tracked and personal information would not be entered into a database, says Ana Jaklenec, a scientist involved in the study.

https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648

---

The really interesting thing is, the left seized on the microchip misconception to claim those people are rubes, instead of correcting them and saying the ACTUAL proposed plan was a TATTOO with special ink.

Why not just correct the misconception? Well, it's easier to cast your opposition as stupid rather than admit they did base their objections on a legitimate concern.

---

Neither the tattoo nor the microchip exist in connection with the vaccine. That is an objective fact not subject to debate. We should live in a fact based world

---

And I never said they did. But the data on what Gates proposed, what exists (quantum dot tattoos) and the fact he has addressed the idea with researchers are also facts. A government run by Democrats makes concern over potential use of this tech a viable thing and definitely destroys the notion that people concerned by the possibility are rubes.

---

They "are not concerned by the possibility." They think the possibility is reality. When it is not.

We walked on the moon; it wasn't a soundstage in Hollywood. 9/11 was not a false flag operation. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Children were actually killed at Sandy Hook, 81 million US citizens voted for Joe Biden in 2020. The vaccines are safe and do not contain microchips or other tracking devices.

---

...And Benghazi happened because of a you tube video

---

He gave six straight facts. That are still true.

That Benghazi line was propounded for less than two weeks. Anybody that still believes it is up there with birthers and hookers.

Are you on Team August?

---

So if the Obama admin pushed it for longer than 2 weeks, only then it's a lie? Or is that another one of your exceptions... kind of like how you're against for qualified immunity unless it's a Capitol Cop?

Are you team, "but Trump told people to drink bleach" and/or team Russian collusion?

Maybe you're team mask mandate and/or vaccination passport.

---

I never, ever, even by implication, carved out an exception for Capitol Cops. I challenged you to explain how the officer denied Ms. Babbitt her civil rights (the predicate for a sec. 1983 suit) and you never did. QI doesn't even arise without that predicate. Abolish QI.

Okay cool. So you think that the capitol cop that killed an unarmed woman shouldn't have qualified immunity and should face a jury for his actions. Gotcha.

My opposition to the last administration was clearly expressed in terms of policy positions (trade war, tariffs, sucking up to dictators, believing communists over Americans, things like that). And I praised them when merited. As one of the few people around here who read the Mueller Report in its entirety I would only go so far as attempted collusion; but the much better case was made for obstruction.

LOL.... you state "policy positions" then list "believing dictators, believing communists over Americans, and things like that"....those items and "things like that" are not policy positions.

Squish, you're just another triggered Trump hater that trying to pass himself off as a Libertarian. Maybe you actually believe you are one, who knows.

You appear to have a mistaken assumption about my position on masks. Let me say it one more time for you: "Give us information, not orders." As to vaccine passports I have said, repeatedly, that I will be glad to participate in private apps, where I can exert some control over who gets my medical info, that allow me access to businesses or whatever. I'm flying internationally in a couple of weeks without a vaccine passport. Huh.

---

---

Don't misstate my position please: QI only arises if there is valid sec 1983 claim. You haven't met that burden.

Hey, if you think sucking up to dictators is good policy then you are free to believe whatever you want. We'll just have to disagree.

I like the way you just run right past the part where I said I praised them where merited. You're so bipartisan...

---

Once again quash, not a policy. I never pointed out if it was a good or bad policy, because, well... it's not a policy.

You're free to start any threads to praise any Trump policy you wish. We'll be sure to read it and comment on it.

---

I did, and in a timely fashion. If he does something else worthy I will do it again.

quash said:

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Rawhide said:

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quash said:

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Rawhide said:

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quash said:

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Rawhide said:

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quash said:

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Rawhide said:

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Booray said:

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Canon said:

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Booray said:

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Canon said:

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Booray said:

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Tough to convince people that believe the vaccine is a microchip carrier. The United States of Dumb.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/51-percent-unvaccinated-individuals-think-183243969.html

---

Not really, no. Just extrapolative. Tattoo or microchip, it's the effect that people don't particularly want, rather than the specific technology. They don't like the idea of being literally branded like cattle for their choices. Their lack of trust in government, which gives lead to extrapolations like this, is the fault of no one but politicians who collude with tech giants and the Davos set.

Quote:

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Rumours took hold in March when Mr Gates said in an interview that eventually "we will have some digital certificates" which would be used to show who'd recovered, been tested and ultimately who received a vaccine. He made no mention of microchips.
That response led to one widely shared article, under the headline: "Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus".
The article makes reference to a study, funded by The Gates Foundation, into a technology that could store someone's vaccine records in a special ink administered at the same time as an injection.
However, the technology is not a microchip and is more like an invisible tattoo. It has not been rolled out yet, would not allow people to be tracked and personal information would not be entered into a database, says Ana Jaklenec, a scientist involved in the study.

https://www.bbc.com/news/52847648

---

The really interesting thing is, the left seized on the microchip misconception to claim those people are rubes, instead of correcting them and saying the ACTUAL proposed plan was a TATTOO with special ink.

Why not just correct the misconception? Well, it's easier to cast your opposition as stupid rather than admit they did base their objections on a legitimate concern.

---

Neither the tattoo nor the microchip exist in connection with the vaccine. That is an objective fact not subject to debate. We should live in a fact based world

---

And I never said they did. But the data on what Gates proposed, what exists (quantum dot tattoos) and the fact he has addressed the idea with researchers are also facts. A government run by Democrats makes concern over potential use of this tech a viable thing and definitely destroys the notion that people concerned by the possibility are rubes.

---

They "are not concerned by the possibility." They think the possibility is reality. When it is not.

We walked on the moon; it wasn't a soundstage in Hollywood. 9/11 was not a false flag operation. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Children were actually killed at Sandy Hook, 81 million US citizens voted for Joe Biden in 2020. The vaccines are safe and do not contain microchips or other tracking devices.

---

...And Benghazi happened because of a you tube video

---

He gave six straight facts. That are still true.

That Benghazi line was propounded for less than two weeks. Anybody that still believes it is up there with birthers and hookers.

Are you on Team August?

---

So if the Obama admin pushed it for longer than 2 weeks, only then it's a lie? Or is that another one of your exceptions... kind of like how you're against for qualified immunity unless it's a Capitol Cop?

Are you team, "but Trump told people to drink bleach" and/or team Russian collusion?

Maybe you're team mask mandate and/or vaccination passport.

---

I never, ever, even by implication, carved out an exception for Capitol Cops. I challenged you to explain how the officer denied Ms. Babbitt her civil rights (the predicate for a sec. 1983 suit) and you never did. QI doesn't even arise without that predicate. Abolish QI.

Okay cool. So you think that the capitol cop that killed an unarmed woman shouldn't have qualified immunity and should face a jury for his actions. Gotcha.

My opposition to the last administration was clearly expressed in terms of policy positions (trade war, tariffs, sucking up to dictators, believing communists over Americans, things like that). And I praised them when merited. As one of the few people around here who read the Mueller Report in its entirety I would only go so far as attempted collusion; but the much better case was made for obstruction.

LOL.... you state "policy positions" then list "believing dictators, believing communists over Americans, and things like that"....those items and "things like that" are not policy positions.

Squish, you're just another triggered Trump hater that trying to pass himself off as a Libertarian. Maybe you actually believe you are one, who knows.

You appear to have a mistaken assumption about my position on masks. Let me say it one more time for you: "Give us information, not orders." As to vaccine passports I have said, repeatedly, that I will be glad to participate in private apps, where I can exert some control over who gets my medical info, that allow me access to businesses or whatever. I'm flying internationally in a couple of weeks without a vaccine passport. Huh.

---

---

Don't misstate my position please: QI only arises if there is valid sec 1983 claim. You haven't met that burden.

Hey, if you think sucking up to dictators is good policy then you are free to believe whatever you want. We'll just have to disagree.

I like the way you just run right past the part where I said I praised them where merited. You're so bipartisan...

---

Once again quash, not a policy. I never pointed out if it was a good or bad policy, because, well... it's not a policy.

You're free to start any threads to praise any Trump policy you wish. We'll be sure to read it and comment on it.

---

I did, and in a timely fashion. If he does something else worthy I will do it again.

---

Again, it's always fun to see quash pretend he is anything like objective or balanced.

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Don't misstate my position please: QI only arises if there is valid sec 1983 claim. You haven't met that burden.

Hey, if you think sucking up to dictators is good policy then you are free to believe whatever you want. We'll just have to disagree.

I like the way you just run right past the part where I said I praised them where merited. You're so bipartisan...

---

Once again quash, not a policy. I never pointed out if it was a good or bad policy, because, well... it's not a policy.

You're free to start any threads to praise any Trump policy you wish. We'll be sure to read it and comment on it.

---

I did, and in a timely fashion. If he does something else worthy I will do it again.

---

Again, it's always fun to see quash pretend he is anything like objective or balanced.

---

I am not balanced, I am biased towards individual liberty.

But thanks for providing supporting links for your points.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Jacques Strap said:

---

Then

Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 06:45am
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

Quote:

---

Results from this analysis of 46,307 trial participants build upon and confirm previously released data and demonstrate strong protection against COVID-19 through six months post-second dose. From the 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 in the trial, 850 cases of COVID-19 were in the placebo group and 77 cases were in the BNT162b2 group, corresponding to vaccine efficacy of 91.3% (95% confidence interval [CI, 89.0, 93.2]).

Thirty-two cases of severe disease, as defined by the CDC, were observed in the placebo group versus none in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating that the vaccine was 100% efficacious in this analysis against severe disease by the CDC definition (95% CI, [88.0,100.0]). Twenty-one severe cases, as defined by the FDA, were observed in the placebo group versus one case in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating 95.3% efficacy by the FDA definition (95% CI, [71.0, 99.9]).

---

Now

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326

Quote:

---

TEL AVIVAbout half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.

Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government. Children under 16, most of whom haven't been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.

The government this week expanded its vaccination campaign to include all 12- to 15-year-olds after a jump in infections among schoolchildren in a town in central Israel. It has since quickly spread geographically and to other groups of the population.

---

---

Doesn't your last paragraph make the case for requiring the vaccination of children?

---

I think you would want to look at the children under 15 (or whatever age cutoff) who have died or been hospitalized and see if they have any comorbidities before making that call. If children lacking comorbidities get infected but have no serious symptoms and do not require hospitalization they may not need a vaccine and be better off with natural immunity. Children with comorbidities may be a different story. Not my call but seems like you would want to see that data before dosing your kids.

---

Out of the 600K or so deaths through July 7th there have been 331 children die between the ages of 0-17, this is out of a population of about 73 million.

For those 75-84 out of a population of about 15 million, there were 163,531 deaths.

So for 17 and under, one death per 220,544 children.
For ages 75-84, there is one death per 94 people.
For ages over 85 there is one death per 36 people.

---

Thank you Forest for the above. The CDC publishes hospitalization rates by age group.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalization-network

The cumulative hospitalizations for ages 0-4; 5-17; 18-49 etc. If I am reading this correctly (and please let me know if I am not) the weekly average hospitalization rate for age 0-4 was about 2 per 100,000 during the Covid peak and just over 1 per 100,000 for the 5-17 age group. So, given that these groups have such a low hospitalization rate I can see why people are reluctant to vaccinate these age groups en masse.

The next age group is 18-49 which is unfortunately a very wide age gap. Many colleges are forcing students to get the vax. before they can return to campus. If the 18-25 age hospitalization rate is similar to the 5-17 age group then I can see why some students are pushing back.

Looking at hospitalization rates and how the vaccines are not doing as well as advertised with respect to preventing you from getting COVID I can understand the reluctance of some millennials to rush to get vaxed.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Don't misstate my position please: QI only arises if there is valid sec 1983 claim. You haven't met that burden.

Hey, if you think sucking up to dictators is good policy then you are free to believe whatever you want. We'll just have to disagree.

I like the way you just run right past the part where I said I praised them where merited. You're so bipartisan...

---

Once again quash, not a policy. I never pointed out if it was a good or bad policy, because, well... it's not a policy.

You're free to start any threads to praise any Trump policy you wish. We'll be sure to read it and comment on it.

---

I did, and in a timely fashion. If he does something else worthy I will do it again.

---

Again, it's always fun to see quash pretend he is anything like objective or balanced.

---

I am not balanced, I am biased towards individual liberty.

But thanks for providing supporting links for your points.

---

I wonder how you can enjoy your meals, with so much bitterness within you.

Quash gonna quash, though.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2021/07/22/al-gov-ivey-its-time-to-start-blaming-the-unvaccinated-folks-for-covid-surge-they-are-letting-us-down/

AL Gov. Ivey: 'It's Time to Start Blaming the Unvaccinated Folks' for COVID Surge They 'Are Letting Us Down'

Quote:

---

Governor Kay Ivey (R-AL) told Birmingham, AL's CBS 42 on Thursday during a press gaggle that it was "time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks" for COVID-19 cases rising in her state.

When asked about mask mandates, Ivey said, "Let's be crystal clear about this issue. The new cases of Covid are because of unvaccinated folks. Almost 100% of the new hospitalizations are with unvaccinated folks. And the deaths are certainly occurring with the unvaccinated folks. These folks are choosing a horrible lifestyle of self-inflicted pain. We got to get folks to take the shot. The vaccine is the greatest weapon we have to fight COVID. There is no question about that the data proves it. I've taken the shot back in December, both shots. It's just the thing to do. The unvaccinated is who we need to focus on."

When asked how to increase Alabama's vaccination rate, Ivey said, "I don't know, you tell me. Folks are supposed to have common sense. But it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down."

She added, "I've done all I know how to do. I can encourage you to do something, but I can't make you take care of yourself."

---

"These vacines are saving lives"

In his most direct effort to encourage people to get vaccinated, Governor Ron DeSantis said 95% of the new COVID cases are those who are not vaccinated. pic.twitter.com/3RzHYEH1mI

— Greg Angel (@NewsGuyGreg) July 21, 2021

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Don't misstate my position please: QI only arises if there is valid sec 1983 claim. You haven't met that burden.

Hey, if you think sucking up to dictators is good policy then you are free to believe whatever you want. We'll just have to disagree.

I like the way you just run right past the part where I said I praised them where merited. You're so bipartisan...

---

Once again quash, not a policy. I never pointed out if it was a good or bad policy, because, well... it's not a policy.

You're free to start any threads to praise any Trump policy you wish. We'll be sure to read it and comment on it.

---

I did, and in a timely fashion. If he does something else worthy I will do it again.

---

Again, it's always fun to see quash pretend he is anything like objective or balanced.

---

I am not balanced, I am biased towards individual liberty.

But thanks for providing supporting links for your points.

---

I wonder how you can enjoy your meals, with so much bitterness within you.

Quash gonna quash, though.

---

Duck, deflect, disparage.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Don't misstate my position please: QI only arises if there is valid sec 1983 claim. You haven't met that burden.

Hey, if you think sucking up to dictators is good policy then you are free to believe whatever you want. We'll just have to disagree.

I like the way you just run right past the part where I said I praised them where merited. You're so bipartisan...

---

Once again quash, not a policy. I never pointed out if it was a good or bad policy, because, well... it's not a policy.

You're free to start any threads to praise any Trump policy you wish. We'll be sure to read it and comment on it.

---

I did, and in a timely fashion. If he does something else worthy I will do it again.

---

Again, it's always fun to see quash pretend he is anything like objective or balanced.

---

I am not balanced, I am biased towards individual liberty.

But thanks for providing supporting links for your points.

---

I wonder how you can enjoy your meals, with so much bitterness within you.

Quash gonna quash, though.

---

Duck, deflect, disparage.

---

Yes, I know, your family motto.

The "Trump" vaccine became ok when it magically changed to the "Biden" vaccine?

ah https://t.co/HmMGceGbGS

— Jerry Dunleavy (@JerryDunleavy) July 23, 2021

After Trump's HHS, led by a guy who sees shadows on his wall and thinks government scientists are leading a seditious coup vandalized the CDC website with fake news, rending the agency very hard to trust, why would any sensible person take a vaccine Trump had anything to do with? https://t.co/cEtOEmIM0I

— Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid 😷 (@JoyAnnReid) September 19, 2020

Black folks: most of you wouldn’t listen to ANYTHING these MAGAs told you. So why would you take the word of these people who don’t even want you to be able to vote and want to bury your history to elevate myths that erase your struggle, on vaccines and a virus that can kill you? https://t.co/cRMxAVTDpo

— Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid 😷 (@JoyAnnReid) July 17, 2021