contrario said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

Maybe we need this kind of shakeup in the medical world to fix the skyrocketing medical cost issues. If you're too dumb to take care of yourself, you are relegated to the dumb person hospital. Everyone else can go to the less crowded hospital and have lower insurance premiums.

---

If we made a list of the things that you're free to do but are potentially harmful to yourself, and delineated the access to things or services accordingly, we'd all be waiting in line for something at the "dumb" option.

Smokers and drinkers pay their way in taxes and then some. And except for AIDS, none of those things are infectious.

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection, transmission, and hospitalization.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canon said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

BylrFan said:

---

https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday

---

QUICK! Let's take away their free will!

---

The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.

---

Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.

The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.

The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.

---

I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.

---

Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. %A0Totally optional!

---

I'm a bad libertarian.

---

Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." %A0In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.

---

What state restrictions?

---

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.page

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx

https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)

---

So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.

---

LOL. %A0When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. %A0Classic Sam Lowry.

Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? %A0Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?

---

You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.

---

Sorry, brother, but I am going to have to call you out on your bull***** %A0Anyone who goes back to our original exchange will see that we were clearly discussing state action. %A0My initial post to you was in response to your request that Canon provide you with the names of these politicians. %A0And then of course you requested that I identify the state actors.

To say otherwise is a lie, and you know it. %A0Just admit your mistake (for once) and move on.

---

I know we're talking about state action. I specifically asked you about it. Keep calm, decide what you want to talk about, get back if you have a substantive response.

---

Ah I see, you want to argue semantics - your other favorite pastime.%A0 As I stated previously, you have an interesting idea of what the word forced means.%A0 When you can't work, travel or shop, I suspect most reasonable people would agree those kind of restrictions would have a way of forcing someone to do something.%A0 No, they haven't been physically restrained and injected, but when you have to decide between providing food for yourself and your family, those kind of decisions have a way of forcing someone to take an action they may not want to.

---

Yeah, except you don't really have to decide that. All you have to do is give up Friday at Applebee's for a while, which in the grand scheme of things is a pretty small price to pay for a license to spread deadly disease and push innocent people out of the emergency room.

---

I think you need to look at those restrictions a little closer if you think they're merely being asked to give up Friday at Applebee's. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

Here's a hint: certain businesses are required to mandate vaccines for their employees to remain open. Public employees are being mandates to take vaccines.

So, sorry, but it's just a tad bit more than not being able to eat a burger at Applebees.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Dnicknames said:

---

Canon said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

BylrFan said:

---

https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday

---

QUICK! Let's take away their free will!

---

The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.

---

Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.

The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.

The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.

---

In order to be admitted to elementary schools, we require kids to be vaccinated.

---

We really don't. One of my kid's vaccination records got lost in a particularly famous hurricane/flood in Nola. We were back in Texas and had no proof of vaccination. School told us to just fill out this form that says "we have a religious or moral objection to vaccination" so we were good to go and didn't have to prove up any vaccinations.

We eventually went and got blood testing to prove the kid had all the required vaxes, but we didn't do that until college. And could've filled out the same "objection" form then.

---

You made a good point, at least for Texas. But that opt out is not an option everywhere.

The Los Angeles school district is the second largest in the nation, serving over 600,000 students. Tomorrow they are announcing a covid vax mandate for all students over 12.

Students participating in in-person extracurricular activities will need to receive both shots by the end of October.

L.A. is offering online only independent study options for those who opt out. Essentially booting kids out of on-campus schooling.

My guess is most urban areas will follow suit in the next six months.

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canon said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

BylrFan said:

---

https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday

---

QUICK! Let's take away their free will!

---

The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.

---

Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.

The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.

The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.

---

I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.

---

Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. %A0Totally optional!

---

I'm a bad libertarian.

---

Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." %A0In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.

---

What state restrictions?

---

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.page

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx

https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)

---

So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.

---

LOL. %A0When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. %A0Classic Sam Lowry.

Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? %A0Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?

---

You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.

---

Sorry, brother, but I am going to have to call you out on your bull***** %A0Anyone who goes back to our original exchange will see that we were clearly discussing state action. %A0My initial post to you was in response to your request that Canon provide you with the names of these politicians. %A0And then of course you requested that I identify the state actors.

To say otherwise is a lie, and you know it. %A0Just admit your mistake (for once) and move on.

---

I know we're talking about state action. I specifically asked you about it. Keep calm, decide what you want to talk about, get back if you have a substantive response.

---

Ah I see, you want to argue semantics - your other favorite pastime.%A0 As I stated previously, you have an interesting idea of what the word forced means.%A0 When you can't work, travel or shop, I suspect most reasonable people would agree those kind of restrictions would have a way of forcing someone to do something.%A0 No, they haven't been physically restrained and injected, but when you have to decide between providing food for yourself and your family, those kind of decisions have a way of forcing someone to take an action they may not want to.

---

Yeah, except you don't really have to decide that. All you have to do is give up Friday at Applebee's for a while, which in the grand scheme of things is a pretty small price to pay for a license to spread deadly disease and push innocent people out of the emergency room.

---

I think you need to look at those restrictions a little closer if you think they're merely being asked to give up Friday at Applebee's. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

Here's a hint: certain businesses are required to mandate vaccines for their employees to remain open. Public employees are being mandates to take vaccines.

So, sorry, but it's just a tad bit more than not being able to eat a burger at Applebees.

---

Of course government employees are subject to government rules. And it's no surprise that private restaurants are subject to the same rules as their customers; it wouldn't make much sense if they weren't. We know restaurants are among the riskiest environments. I realize you don't like it, but it's a narrow rule for a very specific and well documented hazard.

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Lmao

Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:

1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms

Any and all the above are preventable

These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor

The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?

It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for

---

Yeah, they deserve to die

---

No. They can get the vax. They are in most need. Why should a healthy person jump in front of them or people of other less fortunate nations anyway?

If they have the vax, why is anyone so concerned they will die? It has zero long term effects and although you'll get sick when you get the vax and also get sick with covid multiple times, you won't die! It's literally in the vax marketing materials. (Updated after the first marketing message flopped)

Someone above suggested the people clogging up the hospitals for the most expensive and preventable procedures and care should have their own insurance and hospitals and doctors.

Those on the right have always been the most compassionate and have tolerated the higher costs and reduced access so those that have made poorer personal decisions about health in many ways could monopolize at times the resources. Why?

So they can live

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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BearTruth13 said:

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Mothra said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

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The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.

I bet most just are afraid of needles.

---

I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.

---

Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.

---

MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).

At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.

Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.

---

Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experience

I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation

I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.

---

Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.

---

He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paid

---

So he was on HCQ for last 15 months with a dose per week of Ivermectin when in high risk situations or exposed to COVID?

Try to be honest if ya can!

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

The anti vaxxers are pretty funny.

I bet most just are afraid of needles.

---

I am happy for you to donate to my son's care and living expenses the next 65 plus years. I'll shoot you my address and the place to send the check.

---

Happy to donate to your son for his issues unaffiliated with the COVID vaccine.

---

MMR vaccine, my friend. Received it around the age of 2, and went into the hospital with encephalisits for four days. Came out with permanent brain damage, and will live with us the rest of his life (until we die).

At least in my case, I can assure you it's not funny, nor does it have anything to do with a fear of needles. It has to do with a child injured severely by a vaccine and zero long term data on side effects.

Might consider that next time when you're tempted to give a flippant response.

---

Your son's experience is horrible. You aren't the only one with a bad experience

I've had a good friend who died after 3 weeks in the hospital. He refused to be vaccinated because of arguments similar to the drivel posted on this board. I can assure you it isn't funny. It has to do with a father who died needlessly because of misinformation

I think his family has as good an argument for the Covid vaccine as you do against it.

---

Which is why, again, I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves what they want to do. As I've said numerous times, I believe older, vulnerable people should probably get the vaccine instead of taking the risk your friend did.

---

He wasn't older. He believed the Florda BS and made a bad choice. He and his family paid

---

How old? Overweight? Diabetic? History of lung issues? Those typically accompany the bad cases.

I am sorry for your friend. It does sound like he made a bad choice. Similar to the choice I made to have my son vaccinated. That's life in a fallen world.

---

Chronic ingrown hairs

---

^^^ There it is

Can't tell the truth

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canon said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

BylrFan said:

---

https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday

---

QUICK! Let's take away their free will!

---

The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.

---

Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.

The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.

The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.

---

I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.

---

Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. %A0Totally optional!

---

I'm a bad libertarian.

---

Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." %A0In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.

---

What state restrictions?

---

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.page

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx

https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)

---

So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.

---

LOL. %A0When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. %A0Classic Sam Lowry.

Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? %A0Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?

---

You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.

---

Sorry, brother, but I am going to have to call you out on your bull***** %A0Anyone who goes back to our original exchange will see that we were clearly discussing state action. %A0My initial post to you was in response to your request that Canon provide you with the names of these politicians. %A0And then of course you requested that I identify the state actors.

To say otherwise is a lie, and you know it. %A0Just admit your mistake (for once) and move on.

---

I know we're talking about state action. I specifically asked you about it. Keep calm, decide what you want to talk about, get back if you have a substantive response.

---

Ah I see, you want to argue semantics - your other favorite pastime.%A0 As I stated previously, you have an interesting idea of what the word forced means.%A0 When you can't work, travel or shop, I suspect most reasonable people would agree those kind of restrictions would have a way of forcing someone to do something.%A0 No, they haven't been physically restrained and injected, but when you have to decide between providing food for yourself and your family, those kind of decisions have a way of forcing someone to take an action they may not want to.

---

Yeah, except you don't really have to decide that. All you have to do is give up Friday at Applebee's for a while, which in the grand scheme of things is a pretty small price to pay for a license to spread deadly disease and push innocent people out of the emergency room.

---

I think you need to look at those restrictions a little closer if you think they're merely being asked to give up Friday at Applebee's. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

Here's a hint: certain businesses are required to mandate vaccines for their employees to remain open. Public employees are being mandates to take vaccines.

So, sorry, but it's just a tad bit more than not being able to eat a burger at Applebees.

---

Of course government employees are subject to government rules. And it's no surprise that private restaurants are subject to the same rules as their customers; it wouldn't make much sense if they weren't. We know restaurants are among the riskiest environments. I realize you don't like it, but it's a narrow rule for a very specific and well documented hazard.

---

It is of course no surprise that you're dismissive of draconian policies by local governments and are cool with vaccine mandates. You've given up any pretense of being libertarian or conservative long ago.

However, I was not arguing the merits of those policies, but instead your refusal to acknowledge that those policies actually exist. Whether or not Its narrow (it's not) or I like it is irrelevant to that discussion.

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

Ever notice that those vaccines work? There is a reason the "flu shot" is called the "flu shot" and not the "flu vaccine."

Should never have called the Kung Fru vaccine a vaccine. Had it been called a shot from the beginning, people wouldn't have been skeptical.

Freedomb3ar said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Lmao

Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:

1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms

Any and all the above are preventable

These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor

The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?

It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for

---

Yeah, they deserve to die

---

No. They can get the vax. They are in most need. Why should a healthy person jump in front of them or people of other less fortunate nations anyway? Healthy people ar dying

If they have the vax, why is anyone so concerned they will die? Because you guys talk about how dangerous the vaccine is

---

You don't really believe this ****

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Lmao

Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:

1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms

Any and all the above are preventable

These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor

The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?

It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for

---

Yeah, they deserve to die

---

No. They can get the vax. They are in most need. Why should a healthy person jump in front of them or people of other less fortunate nations anyway? Healthy people ar dying

If they have the vax, why is anyone so concerned they will die? Because you guys talk about how dangerous the vaccine is

---

You don't really believe this ****

---

Statistically, it's indisputable by any scientific measure that it's dangerous relative to the risk for almost everyone.

Do you have a question? Don't really believe what?

Again, if you're not old, not immune compromised, you're odds of dying of covid are less than being struck by lightning in your life

Why would heathy people with the vaccine die? We've been told nobody with the vaccine dies or goes to the hospital

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canon said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

BylrFan said:

---

https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday

---

QUICK! Let's take away their free will!

---

The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.

---

Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.

The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.

The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.

---

I predict great success in your crusade to make vaccines optional. Especially since they're, you know, optional.

---

Yes, optional if you want to eat, shop, ride public transit and hold a job in places around the country. %A0Totally optional!

---

I'm a bad libertarian.

---

Well look at that - finally something we agree on! Only a bad libertarian would call state restrictions on shopping, working and traveling "choice." %A0In fact, I am not sure one would call that libertarian at all.

---

What state restrictions?

---

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.page

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccines-keytonyc.page

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-13/more-us-cities-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-to-go-places

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/more-states-and-cities-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccines.aspx

https://ballotpedia.org/State_government_policies_about_vaccine_requirements_(vaccine_passports)

---

So you've got four of the most liberal states with vaccine passports, and the rest have either banned them or done nothing. And even in passport states the restrictions are narrowly tailored -- you can go basically wherever you want unless it's a gym, restaurant, or some form of entertainment. This explains why none of my anti-vax friends are starving like y'all keep saying.

---

LOL. %A0When you lose the argument, try to change the subject. %A0Classic Sam Lowry.

Before you try to move us on to the next topic, just to be clear, I take it you no longer dispute that there are state restrictions then, correct? %A0Or does Canon still need to provide you with a list of politicians?

---

You and I are talking about restrictions on activities by unvaccinated people. Canon and I were talking about forced vaccination, which is a different issue. So yeah, let's not change the subject.

---

Sorry, brother, but I am going to have to call you out on your bull***** %A0Anyone who goes back to our original exchange will see that we were clearly discussing state action. %A0My initial post to you was in response to your request that Canon provide you with the names of these politicians. %A0And then of course you requested that I identify the state actors.

To say otherwise is a lie, and you know it. %A0Just admit your mistake (for once) and move on.

---

I know we're talking about state action. I specifically asked you about it. Keep calm, decide what you want to talk about, get back if you have a substantive response.

---

Ah I see, you want to argue semantics - your other favorite pastime.%A0 As I stated previously, you have an interesting idea of what the word forced means.%A0 When you can't work, travel or shop, I suspect most reasonable people would agree those kind of restrictions would have a way of forcing someone to do something.%A0 No, they haven't been physically restrained and injected, but when you have to decide between providing food for yourself and your family, those kind of decisions have a way of forcing someone to take an action they may not want to.

---

Yeah, except you don't really have to decide that. All you have to do is give up Friday at Applebee's for a while, which in the grand scheme of things is a pretty small price to pay for a license to spread deadly disease and push innocent people out of the emergency room.

---

I think you need to look at those restrictions a little closer if you think they're merely being asked to give up Friday at Applebee's. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

Here's a hint: certain businesses are required to mandate vaccines for their employees to remain open. Public employees are being mandates to take vaccines.

So, sorry, but it's just a tad bit more than not being able to eat a burger at Applebees.

---

Of course government employees are subject to government rules. And it's no surprise that private restaurants are subject to the same rules as their customers; it wouldn't make much sense if they weren't. We know restaurants are among the riskiest environments. I realize you don't like it, but it's a narrow rule for a very specific and well documented hazard.

---

It is of course no surprise that you're dismissive of draconian policies by local governments and are cool with vaccine mandates. You've given up any pretense of being libertarian or conservative long ago.

However, I was not arguing the merits of those policies, but instead your refusal to acknowledge that those policies actually exist. Whether or not Its narrow (it's not) or I like it is irrelevant to that discussion.

---

I'm a conservative. I hadn't heard that a few states put those policies into effect, but obviously I've acknowledged it.

Freedomb3ar said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Lmao

Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:

1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms

Any and all the above are preventable

These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor

The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?

It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for

---

Yeah, they deserve to die

---

No. They can get the vax. They are in most need. Why should a healthy person jump in front of them or people of other less fortunate nations anyway? Healthy people ar dying

If they have the vax, why is anyone so concerned they will die? Because you guys talk about how dangerous the vaccine is

---

You don't really believe this ****

---

Statistically, it's indisputable by any scientific measure that it's dangerous relative to the risk for almost everyone.

Do you have a question? Don't really believe what?

---

Tell that to Mothra. What are the odds of a complication with the MMR?

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

GrowlTowel said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

Ever notice that those vaccines work? There is a reason the "flu shot" is called the "flu shot" and not the "flu vaccine."

Should never have called the Kung Fru vaccine a vaccine. Had it been called a shot from the beginning, people wouldn't have been skeptical.

---

Called vaccine for liability reasons. Call it a vaccine and they have no nada liabilities

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Lmao

Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:

1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms

Any and all the above are preventable

These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor

The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?

It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for

---

Yeah, they deserve to die

---

No. They can get the vax. They are in most need. Why should a healthy person jump in front of them or people of other less fortunate nations anyway? Healthy people ar dying

If they have the vax, why is anyone so concerned they will die? Because you guys talk about how dangerous the vaccine is

---

You don't really believe this ****

---

Statistically, it's indisputable by any scientific measure that it's dangerous relative to the risk for almost everyone.

Do you have a question? Don't really believe what?

---

Tell that to Mothra. What are the odds of a complication with the MMR?

---

If you have a question or comment to Mothra, take that up with him. I think given many people's personal situations and experiences, assessing the data, the facts, and their personal health situation with their primary Obamacare physician that they got to keep, is the most prudent way to go.

If one were to assume you or others on this board are vaccinated, what are the long term risks to you or others having taken the vax?

I would assume one discussed that with their doctor and scrutinized ones personal situation based on the data available, of which now, there is volumes regarding to vax or not

GrowlTowel said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

There is a reason the "flu shot" is called the "flu shot" and not the "flu vaccine."

---

it is literally called the flu vaccine

Dnicknames said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Dnicknames said:

---

Canon said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canon said:

---

BylrFan said:

---

https://wacotrib.com/news/local/labor-day-weekend-sees-15-new-covid-19-deaths-854-cases-in-mclennan-county/article_b367f1f8-102e-11ec-9dbf-57f70babe713.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

15 McLennan County residents died of COVID-19 since last Friday

---

QUICK! Let's take away their free will!

---

The free will of the deceased is certainly gone.

---

Freedom, true freedom, allows one to make his own personal choices for his own life, regardless of the outcome to himself. A free man owns both his success and his failures. A free man gets to make his own risk calculations.

The vaccine should be a choice. The risk calculation should be up to the individual. I have family members with Covid now who should have taken the vaccine, given the statistical risks from their age and health status. I respect their choice not to do so, even if I disagreed. That is what freedom requires.

The left is obsessed with removing personal choice (and responsibility) at all costs.

---

In order to be admitted to elementary schools, we require kids to be vaccinated.

---

We really don't. One of my kid's vaccination records got lost in a particularly famous hurricane/flood in Nola. We were back in Texas and had no proof of vaccination. School told us to just fill out this form that says "we have a religious or moral objection to vaccination" so we were good to go and didn't have to prove up any vaccinations.

We eventually went and got blood testing to prove the kid had all the required vaxes, but we didn't do that until college. And could've filled out the same "objection" form then.

---

You made a good point, at least for Texas. But that opt out is not an option everywhere.

The Los Angeles school district is the second largest in the nation, serving over 600,000 students. Tomorrow they are announcing a covid vax mandate for all students over 12.

Students participating in in-person extracurricular activities will need to receive both shots by the end of October.

L.A. is offering online only independent study options for those who opt out. Essentially booting kids out of on-campus schooling.

My guess is most urban areas will follow suit in the next six months.

---

Erego, we are trying to plow new ground in a post covid world.

The right to refuse medical treatment has long been considered a constitutional right. Will be interesting to see where this goes.

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

---

You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

---

You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

---

quack quack quack

Do we glaze over the fact a bit over 10%(734) of their total death covid toll happened in last 35 days during the vax spike?

We could talk about the UK if you want, nearly 90% have at least 1 dose and cases on the rise again after the spike peak a few weeks back, deaths however continue to push up without dropping like seen on the case graph

You keep telling yourself the vax is the answer to all our prayers and life could go to normal if people will just vax..

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

---

You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

---

You keep telling yourself the vax is the answer to all our prayers and life could go to normal if people will just vax..

---

Vax is a big part of the answer

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

---

You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

---

quack quack quack

Do we glaze over the fact a bit over 10%(734) of their total death covid toll happened in last 35 days during the vax spike?

We could talk about the UK if you want, nearly 90% have at least 1 dose and cases on the rise again after the spike peak a few weeks back, deaths however continue to push up without dropping like seen on the case graph

You keep telling yourself the vax is the answer to all our prayers and life could go to normal if people will just vax..

---

Ah, at last…the hard turn over the cliff and into full anti-vax propaganda. Glad you finally committed.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

---

You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

---

quack quack quack

Do we glaze over the fact a bit over 10%(734) of their total death covid toll happened in last 35 days during the vax spike?

We could talk about the UK if you want, nearly 90% have at least 1 dose and cases on the rise again after the spike peak a few weeks back, deaths however continue to push up without dropping like seen on the case graph

You keep telling yourself the vax is the answer to all our prayers and life could go to normal if people will just vax..

---

Ah, at last…the hard turn over the cliff and into full anti-vax propaganda. Glad you finally committed.

---

i didnt commit to anything, i looked at the data and told my observations.

If you are interested in taking the vax, i suggest the Moderna shot. It has the best response to all the variants so far. Data is data. Facts dont care about yoyr feelings.

I am not here to support your ideology or that of those who oppose your opinions. I will hop easily from one side to the other because I dont have a strong commitment to either in most instances.

Kudos to the increased witty responses recently, that Sam I really like..

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

---

You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

---

You keep telling yourself the vax is the answer to all our prayers and life could go to normal if people will just vax..

---

Vax is a big part of the answer

---

it might be, where it looked like 90% early on, it has fallen below 70% depending on if they can adapt it fast enough to outrun the variants/mutations. We need increased testing to find better therapeutics.

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

---

You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

---

quack quack quack

Do we glaze over the fact a bit over 10%(734) of their total death covid toll happened in last 35 days during the vax spike?

We could talk about the UK if you want, nearly 90% have at least 1 dose and cases on the rise again after the spike peak a few weeks back, deaths however continue to push up without dropping like seen on the case graph

You keep telling yourself the vax is the answer to all our prayers and life could go to normal if people will just vax..

---

Ah, at last…the hard turn over the cliff and into full anti-vax propaganda. Glad you finally committed.

---

i didnt commit to anything, i looked at the data and told my observations.

If you are interested in taking the vax, i suggest the Moderna shot. It has the best response to all the variants so far. Data is data. Facts dont care about yoyr feelings.

I am not here to support your ideology or that of those who oppose your opinions. I will hop easily from one side to the other because I dont have a strong commitment to either in most instances.

Kudos to the increased witty responses recently, that Sam I really like..

---

It's not that I'm glossing over, it's that you're cherry-picking. Even if 10% percent of deaths were during the recent spike, the fact remains that daily deaths are well under half what they were in January. Even in Israel, and with the Delta variant, the vaccine is still 85-95% effective against severe disease.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

---

You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

---

quack quack quack

Do we glaze over the fact a bit over 10%(734) of their total death covid toll happened in last 35 days during the vax spike?

We could talk about the UK if you want, nearly 90% have at least 1 dose and cases on the rise again after the spike peak a few weeks back, deaths however continue to push up without dropping like seen on the case graph

You keep telling yourself the vax is the answer to all our prayers and life could go to normal if people will just vax..

---

Ah, at last…the hard turn over the cliff and into full anti-vax propaganda. Glad you finally committed.

---

i didnt commit to anything, i looked at the data and told my observations.

If you are interested in taking the vax, i suggest the Moderna shot. It has the best response to all the variants so far. Data is data. Facts dont care about yoyr feelings.

I am not here to support your ideology or that of those who oppose your opinions. I will hop easily from one side to the other because I dont have a strong commitment to either in most instances.

Kudos to the increased witty responses recently, that Sam I really like..

---

It's not that I'm glossing over, it's that you're cherry-picking. Even if 10% percent of deaths were during the recent spike, the fact remains that daily deaths are well under half what they were in January. Even in Israel, and with the Delta variant, the vaccine is still 85-95% effective against severe disease.

---

With a much more contagious disease.

The vaccines saved a lot of lives, even more illnesses and prevented our health care system from being completely overwhelmed. Vaccine critics are letting perfect be the enemy of good and that has cost many people their life or their health.

There is really no other way to look at it sensibly.

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Freedomb3ar said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

---

Lmao

Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:

1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms

Any and all the above are preventable

These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor

The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?

It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for

---

Yeah, they deserve to die

---

No. They can get the vax. They are in most need. Why should a healthy person jump in front of them or people of other less fortunate nations anyway? Healthy people ar dying

If they have the vax, why is anyone so concerned they will die? Because you guys talk about how dangerous the vaccine is

---

You don't really believe this ****

---

Statistically, it's indisputable by any scientific measure that it's dangerous relative to the risk for almost everyone.

Do you have a question? Don't really believe what?

---

Tell that to Mothra. What are the odds of a complication with the MMR?

---

Higher than you think. I can't tell you how many families I've run into on this 14-year journey who have similar stories or worse.

I would have preferred my son get measles, mumps or rubella, believe me.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

clubhi said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

contrario said:

---

I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

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Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

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you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

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He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

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We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

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what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

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We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

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you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

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You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

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Interesting spin there.

Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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clubhi said:

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ATL Bear said:

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contrario said:

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I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

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Your logic extended to every other type of disease and health condition would result in a state of medical tyranny. It doesn't work. You're connecting disjointed dots.

---

you might want to read up on the other stuff we have vaccinated for

---

He's making the argument that it's because of hospital bed use. Maybe we'll start regulating the foods people eat so cancer and heart disease don't clog up hospital space. Furthermore, the other vaccines eliminate infection, basically eradicating it. That hasn't and most likely won't with COVID. We've never found a vaccine for a coronavirus of any type. So the considerations and implications are much different, and the parallel doesn't apply.

---

We haven't eliminated flu, either, but we've controlled it for the time being. Vaccinations reduce infection and transmission.

---

what is the vax rate for flu? And what percent of businesses have in last 50 years required a vax card to prove you got the flu shot before entering?

Vax reduces severity of infection in some people who might have had severe response to Covid19. Vaxed people can still get it and still transmit the virus. Israel is a prime example of this fact. Israel has seen cases climb, reaching an all-time high of 11,316 daily cases on Sept. 2. One tenth of Their current overall pandemic death toll attributed to Covid came from deaths in the last 35 days. This from a country that has been 80% vaxed.

All we can do is learn how to treat it and keep hospitalizations down. Vax is not all the answer.

---

We don't need vax cards for seasonal flu. Hopefully we won't need them for Covid in the near future. The vaccines are working just fine in Israel. They're by far the best way to reduce transmission, even if they don't stop it completely.

---

you quack like a duck without realizing your a duck..

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You post graphs without realizing what they mean. Almost all cases in Israel are Delta variant, which has an R0 value two to five times that of the original strain. The fact that case counts aren't any higher is a huge success story (the one-day spike at the end of the graph is presumably the result of testing delays over Rosh Hashanah).

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quack quack quack

Do we glaze over the fact a bit over 10%(734) of their total death covid toll happened in last 35 days during the vax spike?

We could talk about the UK if you want, nearly 90% have at least 1 dose and cases on the rise again after the spike peak a few weeks back, deaths however continue to push up without dropping like seen on the case graph

You keep telling yourself the vax is the answer to all our prayers and life could go to normal if people will just vax..

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Ah, at last…the hard turn over the cliff and into full anti-vax propaganda. Glad you finally committed.

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i didnt commit to anything, i looked at the data and told my observations.

If you are interested in taking the vax, i suggest the Moderna shot. It has the best response to all the variants so far. Data is data. Facts dont care about yoyr feelings.

I am not here to support your ideology or that of those who oppose your opinions. I will hop easily from one side to the other because I dont have a strong commitment to either in most instances.

Kudos to the increased witty responses recently, that Sam I really like..

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It's not that I'm glossing over, it's that you're cherry-picking. Even if 10% percent of deaths were during the recent spike, the fact remains that daily deaths are well under half what they were in January. Even in Israel, and with the Delta variant, the vaccine is still 85-95% effective against severe disease.

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When the boosters comes out, will you continue to get injected for all of these variations?

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Freedomb3ar said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Freedomb3ar said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Freedomb3ar said:

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contrario said:

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I'm all for freedom, but as soon as you exercising your freedom impacts me, that's when I have issue. One big example that we can all relate to:

We require seatbelts in cars for many reasons. If enough people die in car accidents because they aren't wearing seatbelts, it increases insurance costs for everyone. That means even though I'm a responsible driver and wear my seatbelt (and drive safely and other things as well), I get punished because some person doesn't want to spent 3 seconds to put on their seatbelt. In addition to financial costs, if people don't wear seatbelts, they are more likely to suffer a serious injury. Which means they are taking up hospital beds that they otherwise wouldn't take up if they just wore a seatbelt. For these reasons, and others, we have made it a law that everyone must wear a seatbelt. Please note, a seatbelt does not guarantee survival in a car crash, but it does reduce the likelihood of a fatality and it does reduce the likelihood of a major injury.

So to bring this home for some of you that can't connect the dots, you exercising your freedom by not getting vaccinated is impacting me. If you get covid, you are more likely to be hospitalized which means you could be taking up a bed that me or one of my loved ones may need if one of us is hospitalized for many reasons that people are hospitalized. In addition, there is an impact on healthcare costs because of the number of people that are being hospitalized from Covid. And while the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get Covid or be hospitalized, it does reduce the likelihood of that happening. The unvaccinated also risk spreading the virus to people that are in high-risk groups. And even people in these high-risk groups that have been vaccinated are still at risk if they do contract the virus. Yes, the likelihood of major complications is lower with the vaccine, but there is still a chance.

So again, I'm all for exercising freedom, but don't interfere with my life when I'm trying to do everything the right way. I hate to be callous, but your life isn't worth much to me if you are taking a reckless stance, mostly for political reasons, which could impact me or my loved ones. I'm ok with you taking this stance if you are ok with using a separate health insurance plan that won't impact my premiums and going to a separate hospital that won't take a hospital bed away from me or my loved ones if you need to be hospitalized because of your careless choices.

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Lmao

Let's start with all the people that been doing this for generations:

1) smokers
2) lazy, fat, out of shape, not exercising
3) aids
4) consumers of massive amounts of alcohol
5) consumers of sugar, processed foods, fast food
6) type 2 diabetes
7) illegal aliens in emergency rooms

Any and all the above are preventable

These people by their choices have skyrocketed the costs of medical expenses for far too long and I can't even count the number of times a healthy friend or family member has dealt with a slower response Or a tired doctor or nurse for necessary healthcare because one of those people was occupying a bed or a doctor

The arguments by the vaxtremists get weaker by the day. Do you even begin to understand the costs of all our healthcare and risk of taking up hospital space by those choices?

It's time those people get their own insurance and hospitals so those that make responsible choices get the access they are paying for

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Yeah, they deserve to die

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No. They can get the vax. They are in most need. Why should a healthy person jump in front of them or people of other less fortunate nations anyway? Healthy people ar dying

If they have the vax, why is anyone so concerned they will die? Because you guys talk about how dangerous the vaccine is

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You don't really believe this ****

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Statistically, it's indisputable by any scientific measure that it's dangerous relative to the risk for almost everyone.

Do you have a question? Don't really believe what?

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Tell that to Mothra. What are the odds of a complication with the MMR?

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Higher than you think. I can't tell you how many families I've run into on this 14-year journey who have similar stories or worse.

I would have preferred my son get measles, mumps or rubella, believe me.

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wow