boognish_bear said:

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There's still a total chaos scenario in the Big 12 where 8 teams finish 6-3 and it's Baylor vs. Kansas State in Arlington.

OK, goodnight gang.

— Max Olson (@max_olson) November 17, 2024

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What is this scenario? (besides us winning out). Is it Realistic?

bear2be2 said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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whitetrash said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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3 of the top 4 teams in the conference are non-legacy B12 teams

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I hope this helps wake some programs up as the legacy Big 12 teams collectively can and should do better.

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Meanwhile the top 2 teams in the SECSECSEC are non-legacy SECSECSEC teams.

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The top 4 SEC teams are essentially locks for the CFP, while the Big 12 champion - regardless of what conference it recently came from - is currently fighting for a first round bye vs Boise State. To rephrase, it's clear that the legacy SEC teams are doing just fine despite recent realignment given 2-3 of them will make the CFP, and the same cannot be said about the legacy Big 12 teams which are virtually guaranteed to miss the CFP by a wide margin.

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I don't know what the SEC would do without you here -- on this Baylor fan site -- to white knight for it while simultaneously trashing the Big 12 and its schools.

Best fluffer in the business.

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Was anything in the post that you are responding to factually incorrect? If not, your response was unnecessary and serves no purpose given it was accurate and relevant to the discussion at hand. Do better.

Married A Horn said:

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boognish_bear said:

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There's still a total chaos scenario in the Big 12 where 8 teams finish 6-3 and it's Baylor vs. Kansas State in Arlington.

OK, goodnight gang.

— Max Olson (@max_olson) November 17, 2024

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What is this scenario? (besides us winning out). Is it Realistic?

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Not really realistic. To get everyone to 3 losses we need....

-BYU to lose out against @ASU and home UH
-CU to lose out against @KU and home OSU
-ASU to lose @Arizona in last game
-ISU lose to either @Utah and home KSU

And of course us winning out.

boognish_bear said:

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Gonna need the Dumb & Dumber meme here...

After 3-9 last year and starting 2-4 this year just being mathematically in this feels like a win.

boognish_bear said:

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Married A Horn said:

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boognish_bear said:

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There's still a total chaos scenario in the Big 12 where 8 teams finish 6-3 and it's Baylor vs. Kansas State in Arlington.

OK, goodnight gang.

— Max Olson (@max_olson) November 17, 2024

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What is this scenario? (besides us winning out). Is it Realistic?

---

Not really realistic. To get everyone to 3 losses we need....

-BYU to lose out against @ASU and home UH
-CU to lose out against @KU and home OSU
-ASU to lose @Arizona in last game
-ISU lose to either @Utah and home KSU

And of course us winning out.

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It's highly, highly unlikely. But the crazy thing is, in this conference, all of those things could happen. I wouldn't even be all that shocked by a lot of them.

boognish_bear said:

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After 3-9 last year and starting 2-4 this year just being mathematically in this feels like a win.

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Agree. And I'm saying its sad we are happy about this year.

Sigh.

From the @Big12Conference:

BYU and Colorado are the only Big 12 programs who can clinch a berth in the Big 12 Football Championship in Week 13.

- BYU earns a spot with a win over Arizona State AND an Utah victory over Iowa State.

- Colorado secures a berth with a win over…

— Mitch Harper (@Mitch_Harper) November 18, 2024

“I'm just hurting for those kids. It's been a really, really hard two weeks for me... and I feel awful for those older guys that had my back... I let them down."

Hope everything is ok with Coach Klieman

pic.twitter.com/XDIGlKUr0s

— Unnecessary Roughness (@UnnecRoughness) November 17, 2024

For an 8-way tie at 6-3:

BU beats Houston and KU
Arizona State beats BYU and loses to Arizona
BYU loses to Arizona State and Houston
Colorado loses to KU and OSU
ISU beats Utah and loses to KSU
KSU beats Cin and ISU
TCU beats Arizona and CIN
Tech beats OSU and West Virginia

Try to figure out that tie breaker.

bear2be2 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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boognish_bear said:

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After 3-9 last year and starting 2-4 this year just being mathematically in this feels like a win.

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Agree. And I'm saying its sad we are happy about this year.

Sigh.

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I can't think of a seven- or eight-win season in Baylor's history that its fans weren't at least somewhat happy about. There's nothing sad about celebrating winning seasons at a program with a .509 all-time win percentage.

If we lose out, and finish 6-7, I don't think anyone will be particularly happy. But that outcome doesn't seem particularly likely given our next opponent and the way we've been playing lately.

In the meantime, if you're not happy about a four-game win streak that has completely changed the trajectory of our season -- and potentially, entire program -- then you're not fanning correctly.

Be happy or don't. I don't really care. But lecturing/condescending to those who are happy right now doesn't make you a better, more demanding fan. It just makes you look bitter.

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Thanks for the condescending lecture.

Married A Horn said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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boognish_bear said:

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After 3-9 last year and starting 2-4 this year just being mathematically in this feels like a win.

---

Agree. And I'm saying its sad we are happy about this year.

Sigh.

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I can't think of a seven- or eight-win season in Baylor's history that its fans weren't at least somewhat happy about. There's nothing sad about celebrating winning seasons at a program with a .509 all-time win percentage.

If we lose out, and finish 6-7, I don't think anyone will be particularly happy. But that outcome doesn't seem particularly likely given our next opponent and the way we've been playing lately.

In the meantime, if you're not happy about a four-game win streak that has completely changed the trajectory of our season -- and potentially, entire program -- then you're not fanning correctly.

Be happy or don't. I don't really care. But lecturing/condescending to those who are happy right now doesn't make you a better, more demanding fan. It just makes you look bitter.

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Thanks for the condescending lecture.

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Stay mad. The rest of us will unapologetically enjoy watching Baylor win football games.

Stefano DiMera said:

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Bear2be is right...you have a weird obsession with trashing the Big 12.

During realignment you were so dang sure the Pac 12 would get a better TV deal because they were a more attractive conference.

And that the Four Corners were too good to join us.

And that the ACC holds the title of 3rd best conference. And it's not close.

Some weird takes that haven't been proven correct.

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This revisionist history is wild. Namely:
1. The Big 12 accepted the deal that the PAC 12 rejected. Given that the PAC 12 was offered it first and turned it down, that was spot on;
2. The four corners joined the Big 12 after Oregon and Washington left for the B1G, as well they weren't coming to the Big 12 had those two programs stayed. That was always true and I never asserted anything to the contrary;
3. And the list goes on…

Stefano DiMera said:

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Bear2be is right...you have a weird obsession with trashing the Big 12.

During realignment you were so dang sure the Pac 12 would get a better TV deal because they were a more attractive conference.

And that the Four Corners were too good to join us.

And that the ACC holds the title of 3rd best conference. And it's not close.

Some weird takes that haven't been proven correct.

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This revisionist history is wild. Namely:
1. The Big 12 accepted the deal that the PAC 12 rejected. Given that the PAC 12 was offered it first and turned it down, that was spot on;
2. The four corners joined the Big 12 after Oregon and Washington left for the B1G, as they weren't coming to the Big 12 had those two programs stayed. That was always true and I never asserted anything to the contrary;
3. And the list goes on…

Some accurate takes that have been proven correct - FTFY

Stefano DiMera said:

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1. The Big 12 accepted the streaming deal from the CW? I missed that news .

2. The Four Corners could have stayed after Oregon and Washington left. No one put a gun to their head .

4. A list usually contains 3 or more items....

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1. The 1 on your list makes no sense, as the Big 12's current deal was offered to the PAC 12 before it was offered to the Big 12.
2. And? I never asserted that the four corners would stay without Oregon and Washington, so…
3. The ACC currently has two teams with a higher chance of making the CFP than anyone in the Big 12, so…

bear2be2 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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boognish_bear said:

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After 3-9 last year and starting 2-4 this year just being mathematically in this feels like a win.

---

Agree. And I'm saying its sad we are happy about this year.

Sigh.

---

I can't think of a seven- or eight-win season in Baylor's history that its fans weren't at least somewhat happy about. There's nothing sad about celebrating winning seasons at a program with a .509 all-time win percentage.

If we lose out, and finish 6-7, I don't think anyone will be particularly happy. But that outcome doesn't seem particularly likely given our next opponent and the way we've been playing lately.

In the meantime, if you're not happy about a four-game win streak that has completely changed the trajectory of our season -- and potentially, entire program -- then you're not fanning correctly.

Be happy or don't. I don't really care. But lecturing/condescending to those who are happy right now doesn't make you a better, more demanding fan. It just makes you look bitter.

---

Thanks for the condescending lecture.

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Stay mad. The rest of us will unapologetically enjoy watching Baylor win football games.

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Didnt like that I pointed out your hypocrisy, huh?

Married A Horn said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Married A Horn said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

After 3-9 last year and starting 2-4 this year just being mathematically in this feels like a win.

---

Agree. And I'm saying its sad we are happy about this year.

Sigh.

---

I can't think of a seven- or eight-win season in Baylor's history that its fans weren't at least somewhat happy about. There's nothing sad about celebrating winning seasons at a program with a .509 all-time win percentage.

If we lose out, and finish 6-7, I don't think anyone will be particularly happy. But that outcome doesn't seem particularly likely given our next opponent and the way we've been playing lately.

In the meantime, if you're not happy about a four-game win streak that has completely changed the trajectory of our season -- and potentially, entire program -- then you're not fanning correctly.

Be happy or don't. I don't really care. But lecturing/condescending to those who are happy right now doesn't make you a better, more demanding fan. It just makes you look bitter.

---

Thanks for the condescending lecture.

---

Stay mad. The rest of us will unapologetically enjoy watching Baylor win football games.

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Didnt like that I pointed out your hypocrisy, huh?

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I was neither lecturing nor condescending to you. Just trying to provide some historical context for why being happy with Baylor's recent play and current season outlook is the much more reasonable position.

Unfortunately, it met an unreceptive audience.

Like I said, stay mad. It's ultimately your loss, though.

Curious question..do you get one paycheck..or two...for being the spokesperson/cheerleader for Jim Phillips and Greg Sankey?

I could go back to your original lecture to point out how you were both, but I think we both know the truth. I'll spare the board having to continue to read these spats between 2 members that noone else cares about.

I am happy we won. I really hope we go 8-4 and win our bowl game and that vaults us back towards elite status. Would love it. I was merely hoping the fan base would not settle for mediocrity anymore. I, for one, want us to be shooting for 10-2 or 11-1 and the CFP EVERY YEAR.

Married A Horn said:

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I could go back to your original lecture to point out how you were both, but I think we both know the truth. I'll spare the board having to continue to read these spats between 2 members that noone else cares about.

I am happy we won. I really hope we go 8-4 and win our bowl game and that vaults us back towards elite status. Would love it. I was merely hoping the fan base would not settle for mediocrity anymore. I, for one, want us to be shooting for 10-2 or 11-1 and the CFP EVERY YEAR.

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Both of Briles' conference championships and Rhule's Sugar Bowl campaign were launched off springboard seasons you would call mediocre.

That Baylor fans like myself recognize the parallels does not mean that we're settling for mediocrity. Nor does you're inability to see the similarities that this season bears to our 2012 and 2018 seasons make you a better fan than everyone else.

We all want to win at a championship level. At a program with Baylor's history and recruiting profile, you have to build to those through player development and experience. When we're much better next year -- and potentially even competing for a Big 12 title -- I hope you realize that didn't happen in a vacuum. That process started this season, and you refused to enjoy it.

Remind me how Briles and Rhule both won the conference and subsequently got worse over the next 2 seasons?

What I am liking is that CDA is adjusting. Bringing in Spavital AND getting the University in line with the times regarding NIL are both cause for optimism.

Married A Horn said:

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Remind me how Briles and Rhule both won the conference and subsequently got worse over the next 2 seasons?

What I am liking is that CDA is adjusting. Bringing in Spavital AND getting the University in line with the times regarding NIL are both cause for optimism.

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Neither was here long enough to even have that discussion.

Briles was fired one year after his last Big 12 championship, and Rhule left immediately after taking Baylor to the Big 12 title game.

But the past is the past. The 2021 season has no bearing whatsoever on my opinion of our program's current state or trajectory, which is based 100 percent on what I've seen this season and what we have coming back for next year.

CDA didn't get the University in line with NIL

The other way around.

That is one of the things he got on his knees in Mack's office after the WVa game last year when he begged for his job and said he'd do better.

Stefano DiMera said:

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CDA didn't get the University in line with NIL

The other way around.

That is one of the things he got on his knees in Mack's office after the WVa game last year when he begged for his job and said he'd do better.

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Oh okay. Well, good either way.

Thx.

bear2be2 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Remind me how Briles and Rhule both won the conference and subsequently got worse over the next 2 seasons?

What I am liking is that CDA is adjusting. Bringing in Spavital AND getting the University in line with the times regarding NIL are both cause for optimism.

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Neither was here long enough to even have that discussion.

Briles was fired one year after his last Big 12 championship, and Rhule left immediately after taking Baylor to the Big 12 title game.

But the past is the past. The 2021 season has no bearing whatsoever on my opinion of our program's current state or trajectory, which is based 100 percent on what I've seen this season and what we have coming back for next year.

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Your first post: go look at Briles and Rhule in the past. This team is like those teams.

Your 2nd post: the past is the past, it has no bearing.

Am I supposed to go back and look at them or not?

The going mantra on this knee-jerk board has been that Aranda in 2021 won with Rhule's players so he gets no credit for that. OK, let's take that approach. Now we are told that you can't look at similarities to the 2012 and 2018 seasons because the 2021 team won the Sugar Bowl.

So if you throw out what the team did in 2021 as really not on Aranda's resume then it kind of puts Aranda in the position of where Briles was in 2009 from a purely "eye and feel test". I do see a lot of similarities with 2012 and 2018 as some have mentioned.

The one thing I do see that is totally consistent with the usual blather on this board and that of the old BaylorFans is that in 2012 before we took off against KU, the BaylorFans football forum was howling mightedly for Briles to be fired.

We have seen a remarkable turnaround as this season has progressed. We have seen individual players improve, the OL totally remake itself, an exciting, expectant offense emerge, the confidence levels of the team and for most fans highly positive and recruiting is off the charts compared to where most people felt it to be last year. Now, that guarantees absolutely nothing going forward.....absolutely nothing. However it would be completely irresponsible IMO to remove Aranda and blowup everything that has been achieved this season, most likely this year's recruiting class, and any sense of stability in the entire program to install a new coach that regardless of whatever his past record might be also guarantees absolutely nothing that the end result would be any different. All that would be guaranteed would be that we were starting all over again.

Sure things are not perfect and the D has some heavy problems to resolve, but we did under Briles as well. That is why in too many games we needed to score a zillion points to win. But with Aranda's background with defense I can see more focus on that side of the ball in bringing in the help needed to at least make it good enough so the offense can push us over the hump in the positive direction. Starting over right now is not a good plan, IMO.

I feel the lingering desire of some to ignore the apparent turnaround and not giving it the rope to following it to see how it plays out is more a desire to not be able to say I told you so after two years of bluster on this board. Isn't that what it is all about?

Married A Horn said:

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Remind me how Briles and Rhule both won the conference and subsequently got worse over the next 2 seasons?

What I am liking is that CDA is adjusting. Bringing in Spavital AND getting the University in line with the times regarding NIL are both cause for optimism.

---

The year after our second conference chsmpionship with Briles, we finished 9-4. Injuries, sure, but every team has injuries.

Rhule never won a conference championship.

I'm a realist. A program like Baylor will never average 10 wins a year. Only about 6 programs in the entire country do. Even under Briles, we would have had rises and falls (and he would have eventually left for Texas). So when things are bleak after 2-4, I'm ecstatic over how the last five weeks have gone. And if we drop the next 3 (not likely, the worst would be 1-2 depending on our bowl opponent) I'll be upset, but I'll have confidence in next year. I'm not calling it accepting mediocrity. I'm calling it being proud of these players and coaches not giving up when all of the fans did.

If you're expecting 10 wins a season, you need to find another team because it ain't happening here.

blackie said:

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The going mantra on this knee-jerk board has been that Aranda in 2021 won with Rhule's players so he gets no credit for that. OK, let's take that approach. Now we are told that you can't look at similarities to the 2012 and 2018 seasons because the 2021 team won the Sugar Bowl.

So if you throw out what the team did in 2021 as really not on Aranda's resume then it kind of puts Aranda in the position of where Briles was in 2009 from a purely "eye and feel test". I do see a lot of similarities with 2012 and 2018 as some have mentioned.

The one thing I do see that is totally consistent with the usual blather on this board and that of the old BaylorFans is that in 2012 before we took off against KU, the BaylorFans football forum was howling mightedly for Briles to be fired.

We have seen a remarkable turnaround as this season has progressed. We have seen individual players improve, the OL totally remake itself, an exciting, expectant offense emerge, the confidence levels of the team and for most fans highly positive and recruiting is off the charts compared to where most people felt it to be last year. Now, that guarantees absolutely nothing going forward.....absolutely nothing. However it would be completely irresponsible IMO to remove Aranda and blowup everything that has been achieved this season, most likely this year's recruiting class, and any sense of stability in the entire program to install a new coach that regardless of whatever his past record might be also guarantees absolutely nothing that the end result would be any different. All that would be guaranteed would be that we were starting all over again.

Sure things are not perfect and the D has some heavy problems to resolve, but we did under Briles as well. That is why in too many games we needed to score a zillion points to win. But with Aranda's background with defense I can see more focus on that side of the ball in bringing in the help needed to at least make it good enough so the offense can push us over the hump in the positive direction. Starting over right now is not a good plan, IMO.

I feel the lingering desire of some to ignore the apparent turnaround and not giving it the rope to following it to see how it plays out is more a desire to not be able to say I told you so after two years of bluster on this board. Isn't that what it is all about?

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Great, thoughtful post, as usual. I was one of those who had given up on Aranda after the 2-4 start, and I completely agree.

I hate the "winning with Rhule's players" excuse. You know who didn't win a title with Rhule's players? Rhule.

Someone had to coach them. Aranda deserves credit for that as he deserves blame for 3-9 last year.