Defensive end Justin Harris announces that he is transferring from Baylor

Rhule seems to be having a hard time keeping guys at Baylor

What's the insider reason? Not going to see the field this year?

Is 5 players leaving a "typical" number of kids leaving a program in a year....or are we getting on the high side now?

I remember being told in various signing day threads how defensive "mastermind" Snow was gonna turn Harris and Artis, specifically, into all conference and potentially all American defensive dominators. Artis should have been booted last year for his stupidity in the TCU brawl. Harris should have been gone last year as well, although maybe they had to wait for situations to play out.

He's still marred from Title 9 investigation. Just like the Blanchard situation where guy can't move on while stuck in that "investigation".

BUBear24 said:

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He's still marred from Title 9 investigation. Just like the Blanchard situation where guy can't move on while stuck in that "investigation".

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Fallout from the equestrian sex tapes maybe?

BUBear24 said:

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He's still marred from Title 9 investigation. Just like the Blanchard situation where guy can't move on while stuck in that "investigation".

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Weren't these the guys involved? Also, weren't the guys separated from the team while the investigations were being conducted? Were the investigations ever even concluded?

In order to make the numbers work, there will be losses to get to the 85 scholarship rule. By recruiting a minimum of 20 per year gives a scholarship roster of 100 players a year. Many classes are more than 20, so to keep it to 85 there has to be 5-7 players a year who will leave the program to maintain the 85. These 5 losses are just normal that opens opportunities in the next class of recruits.

zunooreo said:

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What's the insider reason? Not going to see the field this year?

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Probably, this happens everywhere, every year.

The herd always has to be culled to get to the best.

Hope him well, wherever he lands, and know there is someone better to replace him.

jumpinjoe said:

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In order to make the numbers work, there will be losses to get to the 85 scholarship rule. By recruiting a minimum of 20 per year gives a scholarship roster of 100 players a year. Many classes are more than 20, so to keep it to 85 there has to be 5-7 players a year who will leave the program to maintain the 85. These 5 losses are just normal that opens opportunities in the next class of recruits.

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Conceptually, this is correct, however the Moderator can correct me but I think this puts us at 81 currently on scholarship.

Les3 said:

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jumpinjoe said:

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In order to make the numbers work, there will be losses to get to the 85 scholarship rule. By recruiting a minimum of 20 per year gives a scholarship roster of 100 players a year. Many classes are more than 20, so to keep it to 85 there has to be 5-7 players a year who will leave the program to maintain the 85. These 5 losses are just normal that opens opportunities in the next class of recruits.

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Conceptually, this is correct, however the Moderator can correct me but I think this puts us at 81 currently on scholarship.

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Talk on other side is people are trying to figure out if some of the walks that may be inline for scholarships. (Beard/Heard come to mind).

Forest Bueller said:

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zunooreo said:

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What's the insider reason? Not going to see the field this year?

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Probably, this happens everywhere, every year.

The herd always has to be culled to get to the best.

Hope him well, wherever he lands, and know there is someone better to replace him.

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Interesting thing, though, is that these guys that are leaving had pretty decent P5 offers besides Baylor.

His recruiting class isn't looking so good with all these players transferring.

canoso said:

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Forest Bueller said:

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zunooreo said:

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What's the insider reason? Not going to see the field this year?

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Probably, this happens everywhere, every year.

The herd always has to be culled to get to the best.

Hope him well, wherever he lands, and know there is someone better to replace him.

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Interesting thing, though, is that these guys that are leaving had pretty decent P5 offers besides Baylor.

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^^^THIS^^^

How does this rate of scholarship players voluntarily leaving compare with other Big 12 programs?

It seems rare for second year players recruited by the same coach. Maybe it's just the nature of Rhule's first class coming in and having to fill a class so quickly.

Dia del DougO said:

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How does this rate of scholarship players voluntarily leaving compare with other Big 12 programs?

It seems rare for second year players recruited by the same coach. Maybe it's just the nature of Rhule's first class coming in and having to fill a class so quickly.

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I think it's part of that and also that new rule change for transfer they made. This is the very first year for it.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/new-transfer-rule-eliminates-permission-contact-process

BUBear24 said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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How does this rate of scholarship players voluntarily leaving compare with other Big 12 programs?

It seems rare for second year players recruited by the same coach. Maybe it's just the nature of Rhule's first class coming in and having to fill a class so quickly.

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I think it's part of that and also that new rule change for transfer they made. This is the very first year for it.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/new-transfer-rule-eliminates-permission-contact-process

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That article says the new rule does not go into effect until October though.

This does not bother me too much. If I have a player on my team that does not 100% want to be there I don't want them around anyway.

Why does title 9 group take so long to either clear or give a statement on why they do not clear students? I am sure many should be cleared but hang in limbo. It is not right.....

chorne68 said:

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Why does title 9 group take so long to either clear or give a statement on why they do not clear students? I am sure many should be cleared but hang in limbo. It is not right.....

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Agree. It seems to be running out the clock on their eligibility. The strategy seems to be to suspend the accused from the team, let them stay in school, and pause the process in the investigation phase. They accused graduates or transfers. The accused never practices or plays again. To me this is burying the accused when the administration used to bury the event. I can only guess that the BOR thinks this lessens their liability.

NoBSU said:

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chorne68 said:

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Why does title 9 group take so long to either clear or give a statement on why they do not clear students? I am sure many should be cleared but hang in limbo. It is not right.....

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Agree. It seems to be running out the clock on their eligibility. The strategy seems to be to suspend the accused from the team, let them stay in school, and pause the process in the investigation phase. They accused graduates or transfers. The accused never practices or plays again. To me this is burying the accused when the administration used to bury the event. I can only guess that the BOR thinks this lessens their liability.

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. Nailed it. We don't agree too often but we're lock-step here. Title IX places way to much liability on the university as judge and jury above and beyond what may be decided in a court of law. This is akin to the TB scenario... Just leave it all hanging and the kid will have to bail or give up hope on a future playing ball.

Aren't we supposed to boot the accused out if found guilty to keep the other students safe? If we make the process go so slowly on purpose so that nothing gets done except an athlete can't play for his or her team, we still have an intentionally created 9 problem. Title 9 isn't about athletes and whether they play it's about students who are a threat to other students and getting them out of here.

PartyBear said:

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Aren't we supposed to boot the accused out if found guilty to keep the other students safe? If we make the process go so slowly on purpose so that nothing gets done except an athlete can't play for his or her team, we still have an intentionally created 9 problem. Title 9 isn't about athletes and whether they play it's about students who are a threat to other students and getting them out of here.

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Title IX is about access to education. If the accused and accuser both continue classes then we are safe there. It looks like schools are going forward with the Obama guidance from a public standpoint. DeVos rescinded that guidance. This is from her Q&A:

{Question 3:
INTERIM MEASURES
What are interim measures and is a school required to provide such measures? Answer:
Interim measures are individualized services offered as appropriate to either or both the reporting and responding parties involved in an alleged incident of sexual misconduct, prior to an investigation or while an investigation is pending.9 Interim measures include counseling, extensions of time or other course-related adjustments, modifications of work or class schedules, campus escort services, restrictions on contact between the parties, changes in work or housing locations, leaves of absence, increased security and monitoring of certain areas of campus, and other similar accommodations.
4 34 C.F.R. 106.8(a).
5 2001 Guidance at (V)(C).
6 Office for Civil Rights, Dear Colleague Letter on the First Amendment (July 28, 2003), available at https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/firstamend.html; 2001 Guidance at (XI).
7 Jeanne Clery Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act, Pub. L. No. 101-542, 20 U.S.C. 1092(f).
8 See 34 C.F.R. 668.46.
9 See 2001 Guidance at (VII)(A).
It may be appropriate for a school to take interim measures during the investigation of a complaint.10 In fairly assessing the need for a party to receive interim measures, a school may not rely on fixed rules or operating assumptions that favor one party over another, nor may a school make such measures available only to one party. Interim measures should be individualized and appropriate based on the information gathered by the Title IX Coordinator, making every effort to avoid depriving any student of her or his education. The measures needed by each student may change over time, and the Title IX Coordinator should communicate with each student throughout the investigation to ensure that any interim measures are necessary and effective based on the students' evolving needs.}

The footnotes were at the page break.

DeVos guidance Q&A
{Question 4:
GRIEVANCE PROCEDURES AND INVESTIGATIONS
What are the school's obligations with regard to complaints of sexual misconduct? Answer:
A school must adopt and publish grievance procedures that provide for a prompt and equitable resolution of complaints of sex discrimination, including sexual misconduct.11 OCR has identified a number of elements in evaluating whether a school's grievance procedures are prompt and equitable, including whether the school
(i) provides notice of the school's grievance procedures, including how to file a complaint, to students, parents of elementary and secondary school students, and employees; (ii) applies the grievance procedures to complaints filed by students or on their behalf alleging sexual misconduct carried out by employees, other students, or third parties; (iii) ensures an adequate, reliable, and impartial investigation of complaints, including the opportunity to present witnesses and other evidence; (iv) designates and follows a reasonably prompt time frame for major stages of the complaint process; (v) notifies the parties of the outcome of the complaint; and
(vi) provides assurance that the school will take steps to prevent recurrence of sexual misconduct and to remedy its discriminatory effects, as appropriate.12

Question 5:
What time frame constitutes a "prompt" investigation? Answer:
There is no fixed time frame under which a school must complete a Title IX investigation.13 OCR will evaluate a school's good faith effort to conduct a fair, impartial investigation in a timely manner designed to provide all parties with resolution.

Question 6:
What constitutes an "equitable" investigation?
10 2001 Guidance at (VII)(A). In cases covered by the Clery Act, a school must provide interim measures upon the request of a reporting party if such measures are reasonably available. 34 C.F.R. 668.46(b)(11)(v).

11 34 C.F.R. 106.8(b); 2001 Guidance at (V)(D); see also 34 C.F.R. 668.46(k)(2)(i) (providing that a proceeding which arises from an allegation of dating violence, domestic violence, sexual assault, or stalking must "include a prompt, fair, and impartial process from the initial investigation to the final result").
12 2001 Guidance at (IX); see also 34 C.F.R. 668.46(k). Postsecondary institutions are required to report publicly the procedures for institutional disciplinary action in cases of alleged dating violence, domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking, 34 C.F.R. 668.46 (k)(1)(i), and to include a process that allows for the extension of timeframes for good cause with written notice to the parties of the delay and the reason for the delay, 34 C.F.R. 668.46 (k)(3)(i)(A).
13 2001 Guidance at (IX); see also 34 C.F.R. 668.46(k)(3)(i)(A).
Answer:
In every investigation conducted under the school's grievance procedures, the burden is on the schoolnot on the partiesto gather sufficient evidence to reach a fair, impartial determination as to whether sexual misconduct has occurred and, if so, whether a hostile environment has been created that must be redressed. A person free of actual or reasonably perceived conflicts of interest and biases for or against any party must lead the investigation on behalf of the school. Schools should ensure that institutional interests do not interfere with the impartiality of the investigation.
An equitable investigation of a Title IX complaint requires a trained investigator to analyze and document the available evidence to support reliable decisions, objectively evaluate the credibility of parties and witnesses, synthesize all available evidenceincluding both inculpatory and exculpatory evidenceand take into account the unique and complex circumstances of each case.14
Any rights or opportunities that a school makes available to one party during the investigation should be made available to the other party on equal terms.15 Restricting the ability of either party to discuss the investigation (e.g., through "gag orders") is likely to deprive the parties of the ability to obtain and present evidence or otherwise to defend their interests and therefore is likely inequitable. Training materials or investigative techniques and approaches that apply sex stereotypes or generalizations may violate Title IX and should be avoided so that the investigation proceeds objectively and impartially.16
Once it decides to open an investigation that may lead to disciplinary action against the responding party, a school should provide written notice to the responding party of the allegations constituting a potential violation of the school's sexual misconduct policy, including sufficient details and with sufficient time to prepare a response before any initial interview. Sufficient details include the identities of the parties involved, the specific section of the code of conduct allegedly violated, the precise conduct allegedly constituting the potential violation, and the date and location of the alleged incident.17 Each party should receive written notice in advance of any interview or hearing with sufficient time to prepare for meaningful participation. The investigation should result in a written report summarizing the relevant exculpatory and inculpatory evidence. The reporting and responding parties and appropriate officials must have timely and equal access to any information that will be used during informal and formal disciplinary meetings and hearings.18

Question 7:
INFORMAL RESOLUTIONS OF COMPLAINTS
After a Title IX complaint has been opened for investigation, may a school facilitate an informal resolution of the complaint?
Answer:
If all parties voluntarily agree to participate in an informal resolution that does not involve a full investigation and adjudication after receiving a full disclosure of the allegations and their options for formal resolution and if a school determines that the particular Title IX complaint is appropriate for such a process, the school may facilitate an informal resolution, including mediation, to assist the parties in reaching a voluntary resolution.

14 2001 Guidance at (V)(A)(1)-(2); see also 34 C.F.R. 668.46(k)(2)(ii). 15 2001 Guidance at (X). 16 34 C.F.R. 106.31(a). 17 2001 Guidance at (VII)(B). 18 34 C.F.R. 668.46(k)(3)(i)(B)(3).}

The media is still expecting Obama guidance IMO.
DeVos guidance wants to be fair, more due process, but still investigate, FofF, and adjudicate.
This is supposed to be prompt, but why no rulings on the equestrian matter if the criminal process did not indict?

I dont understand all that legal mumbo jumbo gobbledegook so i'm just gonna say that i REALLY hope we replace harris's scholly with someone twice as good as him.

Grizz Air said:

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I dont understand all that legal mumbo jumbo gobbledegook so i'm just gonna say that i REALLY hope we replace harris's scholly with someone twice as good as him.

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We have people here (not me) that can explain it. To me it is clear as mud.

I work in higher education. Policy to employees has not changed from what I see: report it always. It sure seems like to me that schools can let the process (legal system) proceed. But they still have to investigate. And you don't have to have a set procedure in the middle and end.

That said, why weren't all of the footballers in the equestrian event adjudicated? Suspended, expelled, or returned to the roster?

End of story right here. Can't hack it here...let's find a greener pasture.

Adios

Brian Ethridge said:

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Artis was moved from DE to MLB and 4th string
Davis was the 6th or 7th CB
Harris was suspended
Lewis was suspended
Preciado was moved from safety to slot

Each made the call on their future. Good luck to them.

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