Does anyone know who leaked the Gruden emails and why?

bear2be2 said:

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Reverend said:

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The thought police are out in full force. Compelling people and organizations to toe
their line. Thankfully they don't have the power to actually get into people's heads. Then we'd all be mind numbed robots.

Maybe Gruden actually acted on the thoughts and words he used and caused harm to someone. But he had an openly gay player on his team and a great majority of black players who I imagine he treated with respect. He insulted the commissioner which no one should take seriously.

Wrong thoughts usually don't result in harmful actions...... your better brain and better side usually stand in the way.

---

Out of the mouth, the heart speaks.

Jon Gruden told us exactly how he feels about Black people, gays and women. We don't have to assume. I don't understand why some of you refuse to take these people at their own words and insist on offering them benefit of doubt they haven't remotely earned.

The only thing I can figure is that some of you identify with these thoughts and don't like seeing others held accountable for beliefs you share -- or at least shared at some point.

---

Let's see where else it leads. The standard is set. Let's see if it applies to everyone equally.

bear2be2 said:

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Reverend said:

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Does that make you a misogynist?

---

Do I have to fight the human urge to objectify women? Yes. Do I have a dislike or contempt for or a prejudice against women? Not at all. I've found that women are better at most things than men and think they should have more opportunities to prove that in positions of authority.

---

Shouldn't you resign for your behavior (objectifying women but supporting the porn industry)?

Of course you shouldn't, but this is the standard you are advocating.

Maybe he should have been selling cotton candy for the last 20-30 years.

Osodecentx said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Reverend said:

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Does that make you a misogynist?

---

Do I have to fight the human urge to objectify women? Yes. Do I have a dislike or contempt for or a prejudice against women? Not at all. I've found that women are better at most things than men and think they should have more opportunities to prove that in positions of authority.

---

Shouldn't you resign for your behavior (objectifying women but supporting the porn industry)?

Of course you shouldn't, but this is the standard you are advocating.

---

If you think that's what I'm advocating, you've badly missed the point. But more likely, you're just obfuscating.

We're all human, and as such, we screw up. Most have grace for screw-ups, particularly those that impact the individual more than anyone else. What folks have less patience/grace for is prolonged behavior and toxic mentalities that display a consistent lack of regard and respect for those around you. Mistakes happen and speak to one's humanity. What we're talking about here speaks to one's character.

Racist, homophobic and misogynistic people don't wake up one day and accidentally say something racist, homophobic and misogynistic. It may have accidentally slipped out, but that's part of who those people are and how they view the world. And in Gruden's case, he made that clear through one email after another over a long period of time.

Does that make him irredeemable? No. Can he change? Sure. Should we allow him grace to grow and change? Yes. Should he keep his cushy job and position of authority in the meantime? No. He's an unfit leader at this point. And until he acknowledges his shortcomings in an honest way, makes an earnest effort to change those parts of him and seeks to make amends with the people he's let down, that will be the case.

Mitch Henessey said:

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The fact that there were 650,000 emails reviewed, and the only ones made public were Gruden's feels a lot like a hit-job. I would like to see them all made public.

That said, you don't wanna get fired for saying stupid ****, don't say stupid *****

---

Agreed. Everyone needs to be held accountable. Focusing on a peripheral character while letting central figures (ahem ... Daniel Snyder) skate is bull***** The media needs to keep the screws to the NFL until these emails are made public and a legitimate resolution is reached.

“I think what you’ll discover is that we have so much more in common than not” pic.twitter.com/nKfKazUQ4v

— Los Angeles Chargers (@chargers) October 13, 2021

bear2be2 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Reverend said:

---

Does that make you a misogynist?

---

Do I have to fight the human urge to objectify women? Yes. Do I have a dislike or contempt for or a prejudice against women? Not at all. I've found that women are better at most things than men and think they should have more opportunities to prove that in positions of authority.

---

Shouldn't you resign for your behavior (objectifying women but supporting the porn industry)?

Of course you shouldn't, but this is the standard you are advocating.

---

If you think that's what I'm advocating, you've badly missed the point. But more likely, you're just obfuscating. I said you shouldn't resign, despite your moral shortcomings

We're all human, and as such, we screw up. Most have grace for screw-ups, particularly those that impact the individual more than anyone else. Including Gruden?

What folks have less patience/grace for is prolonged behavior and toxic mentalities that display a consistent lack of regard and respect for those around you. Mistakes happen and speak to one's humanity. What we're talking about here speaks to one's character. So, how long have you been looking at naked women on the internet?

Does that make him irredeemable? No. Neither are you

Can he change? Sure. So can you

Should we allow him grace to grow and change? Yes. Should he keep his cushy job and position of authority in the meantime? No. Should you keep your job? I mean, naked women on porn sites?

---

Look, I'm just saying your self righteousness is interesting

Gruden obviously should not have put his controversial opinions in an email, but as others have observed, someone saw a way to try to destroy the guy.

bear2be2 said:

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“I think what you’ll discover is that we have so much more in common than not” pic.twitter.com/nKfKazUQ4v

— Los Angeles Chargers (@chargers) October 13, 2021

---

Total class act. We need more like him and I was already a fan of the Chargers this year.

That said I think Gruden is exposed and his true friends will remain close by and it is better to shine the light rather than keep it hidden.

Raiders’ QB Derek Carr on Jon Gruden: “I love the man, I hate the sin.” pic.twitter.com/WFlwxwUAxo

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) October 13, 2021

In an effort to fully understand the decision to conceal the WFT evidence, to bury 650,000 emails, and to selectively use a small number of them to compel the resignation of Jon Gruden, I've requested an interview with NFL general counsel Jeff Pash. Stay tuned.

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) October 14, 2021

boognish_bear said:

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Raiders’ QB Derek Carr on Jon Gruden: “I love the man, I hate the sin.” pic.twitter.com/WFlwxwUAxo

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) October 13, 2021

---

Cancel Derek Carr. He's humanizing the idiotic thoughts and words of Griden.

Osodecentx said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Reverend said:

---

Does that make you a misogynist?

---

Do I have to fight the human urge to objectify women? Yes. Do I have a dislike or contempt for or a prejudice against women? Not at all. I've found that women are better at most things than men and think they should have more opportunities to prove that in positions of authority.

---

Shouldn't you resign for your behavior (objectifying women but supporting the porn industry)?

Of course you shouldn't, but this is the standard you are advocating.

---

If you think that's what I'm advocating, you've badly missed the point. But more likely, you're just obfuscating. I said you shouldn't resign, despite your moral shortcomings

We're all human, and as such, we screw up. Most have grace for screw-ups, particularly those that impact the individual more than anyone else. Including Gruden?

What folks have less patience/grace for is prolonged behavior and toxic mentalities that display a consistent lack of regard and respect for those around you. Mistakes happen and speak to one's humanity. What we're talking about here speaks to one's character. So, how long have you been looking at naked women on the internet?

Does that make him irredeemable? No. Neither are you

Can he change? Sure. So can you

Should we allow him grace to grow and change? Yes. Should he keep his cushy job and position of authority in the meantime? No. Should you keep your job? I mean, naked women on porn sites?

---

Look, I'm just saying your self righteousness is interesting

---

Yep, just obfuscating.

Tampa Bay just picked up a guy who has pending charges of domestic abuse, and simultaneously took Gruden out of the ring of honor.

Madden has players on it that have committed all sorts of crimes throughout the years, and removed Gruden from their video game.

There is a ton of posturing that goes on here, because everyone is terrified of being accused of being the wrong kind of person, or of having someone like bear2be2 just straight out call you racist.

At the same time, I have not read these emails, so I really can't say all that much, but I do note that the people who have interacted with Gruden have not called him racist. His crimes appear to be more in the vein of stereotyping and rough language, of the type that we used to write off as a joke, including directly among friends. You could at a minimum convict him for being stupid for not understanding how quickly the world has changed around him, and being arrogant or naive for writing stuff like that in emails. At the same time, a whole lot of people allegedly got these emails and never did anything about them. How do you figure that in?

I see this a bit differently than a lot of people. It reminds me of the old conservative politicians that railed so hard against homosexuality and then interestingly were caught in various homosexual liaisons. They put on a shield of righteousness to protect themselves from their own issues. I tend to think that people that see a racist or a homophobe or a woman hater or a bigot behind every tree are probably the ones hiding something. Hard to know what to make of people who are more careless about their speech without having the full context of that speech and their lifetime of daily interactions with people. Acting like what you put on the Internet is what makes you a good or a bad person is cheap and thin. That's why so many people enjoy it so much.

bear2be2 said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Reverend said:

---

Does that make you a misogynist?

---

Do I have to fight the human urge to objectify women? Yes. Do I have a dislike or contempt for or a prejudice against women? Not at all. I've found that women are better at most things than men and think they should have more opportunities to prove that in positions of authority.

---

Shouldn't you resign for your behavior (objectifying women but supporting the porn industry)?

Of course you shouldn't, but this is the standard you are advocating.

---

If you think that's what I'm advocating, you've badly missed the point. But more likely, you're just obfuscating. I said you shouldn't resign, despite your moral shortcomings

We're all human, and as such, we screw up. Most have grace for screw-ups, particularly those that impact the individual more than anyone else. Including Gruden?

What folks have less patience/grace for is prolonged behavior and toxic mentalities that display a consistent lack of regard and respect for those around you. Mistakes happen and speak to one's humanity. What we're talking about here speaks to one's character. So, how long have you been looking at naked women on the internet?

Does that make him irredeemable? No. Neither are you

Can he change? Sure. So can you

Should we allow him grace to grow and change? Yes. Should he keep his cushy job and position of authority in the meantime? No. Should you keep your job? I mean, naked women on porn sites?

---

Look, I'm just saying your self righteousness is interesting

---

Yep, just obfuscating.

---

Agreed

Reverend said:

---

Gruden quit a $10M a year job and apologized ( although not to your satisfaction).

I have no love for Gruden, but the self righteous, holier than thou, bs on here is stupid.

I'm still wondering if you've ever looked at any naked pictures ?

---

Very weird.

BaylorbearFan_98 said:

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Reverend said:

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Gruden quit a $10M a year job and apologized ( although not to your satisfaction).

I have no love for Gruden, but the self righteous, holier than thou, bs on here is stupid.

I'm still wondering if you've ever looked at any naked pictures ?

---

Very weird.

---

The best kind of naked pictures!

bear2be2 said:

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OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

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bear2be2 said:

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And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

Jon Gruden for President!

Dave Chapelle for Vice President!

bear2be2 said:

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OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

---

So you think I'm right wing because I don't think we should remove people from society for wrong think?

Please tell me what the **** I have in common with random people in Charleston.

Why are you being so aggressive? You know else hated a particular group of people and wanted them purged from society? I'll give you a hint. He was Austrian.

bear2be2 said:

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OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

---

So you think I'm right wing because I don't think we should remove people from society for wrong think?

Please tell me what the **** I have in common with random people in Charleston.

Why are you being so aggressive? You know else hated a particular group of people and wanted them purged from society? I'll give you a hint. He was Austrian.

---

No one's been removed from society. And as far as I know, no one has called for anyone to be removed from society.

Jobs aren't guaranteed. You either meet your employers standard or you get let go. There's not a person here who wouldn't have been fired from their jobs for doing the same thing Gruden did. Companies get to choose who represents them. And most don't want representatives saying the **** Gruden did.

If you want to make him a martyr, that's your prerogative. But the truth is he's just a raging ******* who got caught. That you feel a weird need to defend him and others like him is your problem.

---

I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

Osodecentx said:

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bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

---

So you think I'm right wing because I don't think we should remove people from society for wrong think?

Please tell me what the **** I have in common with random people in Charleston.

Why are you being so aggressive? You know else hated a particular group of people and wanted them purged from society? I'll give you a hint. He was Austrian.

---

No one's been removed from society. And as far as I know, no one has called for anyone to be removed from society.

Jobs aren't guaranteed. You either meet your employers standard or you get let go. There's not a person here who wouldn't have been fired from their jobs for doing the same thing Gruden did. Companies get to choose who represents them. And most don't want representatives saying the **** Gruden did.

If you want to make him a martyr, that's your prerogative. But the truth is he's just a raging ******* who got caught. That you feel a weird need to defend him and others like him is your problem.

---

I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

This was an employment decision made by the Raiders…not the NFL.

boognish_bear said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

---

So you think I'm right wing because I don't think we should remove people from society for wrong think?

Please tell me what the **** I have in common with random people in Charleston.

Why are you being so aggressive? You know else hated a particular group of people and wanted them purged from society? I'll give you a hint. He was Austrian.

---

No one's been removed from society. And as far as I know, no one has called for anyone to be removed from society.

Jobs aren't guaranteed. You either meet your employers standard or you get let go. There's not a person here who wouldn't have been fired from their jobs for doing the same thing Gruden did. Companies get to choose who represents them. And most don't want representatives saying the **** Gruden did.

If you want to make him a martyr, that's your prerogative. But the truth is he's just a raging ******* who got caught. That you feel a weird need to defend him and others like him is your problem.

---

I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

This was an employment decision made by the Raiders…not the NFL.

---

I understand
I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

Osodecentx said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

---

So you think I'm right wing because I don't think we should remove people from society for wrong think?

Please tell me what the **** I have in common with random people in Charleston.

Why are you being so aggressive? You know else hated a particular group of people and wanted them purged from society? I'll give you a hint. He was Austrian.

---

No one's been removed from society. And as far as I know, no one has called for anyone to be removed from society.

Jobs aren't guaranteed. You either meet your employers standard or you get let go. There's not a person here who wouldn't have been fired from their jobs for doing the same thing Gruden did. Companies get to choose who represents them. And most don't want representatives saying the **** Gruden did.

If you want to make him a martyr, that's your prerogative. But the truth is he's just a raging ******* who got caught. That you feel a weird need to defend him and others like him is your problem.

---

I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

This was an employment decision made by the Raiders…not the NFL.

---

I understand
I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

He loss his job and he should have. Sometimes you make an example out of the big name. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. The NFL has moved on, you probably should do the same

Osede, what are you arguing for exactly? Can't find any proposal other than you disagree with the organizations decision or? Even that I can't disseminate. Im spit balling here but I would guess you would be one who would be staunchly in favor of private entities doing as they please. Would you like these decisions regulated and controlled bc you deem the moral determinations heavy handed and foolish?

Are you simply venting about what you perceive as a negative cultural shift? And this is a poor example to pull from if so. There are other decent examples of things probably being taken too far and someone being impacted by something fairly innocuous. But this is not that.

ImwithBU said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

---

So you think I'm right wing because I don't think we should remove people from society for wrong think?

Please tell me what the **** I have in common with random people in Charleston.

Why are you being so aggressive? You know else hated a particular group of people and wanted them purged from society? I'll give you a hint. He was Austrian.

---

No one's been removed from society. And as far as I know, no one has called for anyone to be removed from society.

Jobs aren't guaranteed. You either meet your employers standard or you get let go. There's not a person here who wouldn't have been fired from their jobs for doing the same thing Gruden did. Companies get to choose who represents them. And most don't want representatives saying the **** Gruden did.

If you want to make him a martyr, that's your prerogative. But the truth is he's just a raging ******* who got caught. That you feel a weird need to defend him and others like him is your problem.

---

I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

This was an employment decision made by the Raiders…not the NFL.

---

I understand
I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

He loss his job and he should have. Sometimes you make an example out of the big name. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. The NFL has moved on, you probably should do the same

---

I haven't watched an NFL game in years. I moved on from them a long time ago.

Why do you oppose the same standard being applied by an employer? Or do you?

Quinton said:

---

Osede, what are you arguing for exactly? Can't find any proposal other than you disagree with the organizations decision or? Even that I can't disseminate. Im spit balling here but I would guess you would be one who would be staunchly in favor of private entities doing as they please. Would you like these decisions regulated and controlled bc you deem the moral determinations heavy handed and foolish?

Are you simply venting about what you perceive as a negative cultural shift? And this is a poor example to pull from if so. There are other decent examples of things probably being taken too far and someone being impacted by something fairly innocuous. But this is not that.

---

I am in favor of an employer applying the same standard to all employees. What about you?

Osodecentx said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

---

So you think I'm right wing because I don't think we should remove people from society for wrong think?

Please tell me what the **** I have in common with random people in Charleston.

Why are you being so aggressive? You know else hated a particular group of people and wanted them purged from society? I'll give you a hint. He was Austrian.

---

No one's been removed from society. And as far as I know, no one has called for anyone to be removed from society.

Jobs aren't guaranteed. You either meet your employers standard or you get let go. There's not a person here who wouldn't have been fired from their jobs for doing the same thing Gruden did. Companies get to choose who represents them. And most don't want representatives saying the **** Gruden did.

If you want to make him a martyr, that's your prerogative. But the truth is he's just a raging ******* who got caught. That you feel a weird need to defend him and others like him is your problem.

---

I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

This was an employment decision made by the Raiders…not the NFL.

---

I understand
I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

He loss his job and he should have. Sometimes you make an example out of the big name. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. The NFL has moved on, you probably should do the same

---

I haven't watched an NFL game in years. I moved on from them a long time ago.

Why do you oppose the same standard being applied by an employer? Or do you?

---

I don't oppose it. I just see why people are wasting their energy trying to excuse his actions. He has to be one of the dumbest SOB in the league to leave a paper trail via the company email system.

ImwithBU said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

ImwithBU said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

And I'd be fine exposing everyone else with a similar past. These mentalities need to be purged from sports and society at large.

---

Langsam, kleiner Hitler.

---

Yawn. The modern-day Nazi sympathizers are on your side.

---

Little boy, you know not what you speak of. You're a brownshirt.

---

It wasn't my incel buddies at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charleston chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." But don't let facts stop your gaslighting.

---

So you think I'm right wing because I don't think we should remove people from society for wrong think?

Please tell me what the **** I have in common with random people in Charleston.

Why are you being so aggressive? You know else hated a particular group of people and wanted them purged from society? I'll give you a hint. He was Austrian.

---

No one's been removed from society. And as far as I know, no one has called for anyone to be removed from society.

Jobs aren't guaranteed. You either meet your employers standard or you get let go. There's not a person here who wouldn't have been fired from their jobs for doing the same thing Gruden did. Companies get to choose who represents them. And most don't want representatives saying the **** Gruden did.

If you want to make him a martyr, that's your prerogative. But the truth is he's just a raging ******* who got caught. That you feel a weird need to defend him and others like him is your problem.

---

I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

---

This was an employment decision made by the Raiders…not the NFL.

---

I understand
I just want the same standard applied to all NFL & NBA employees

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He loss his job and he should have. Sometimes you make an example out of the big name. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. The NFL has moved on, you probably should do the same

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I haven't watched an NFL game in years. I moved on from them a long time ago.

Why do you oppose the same standard being applied by an employer? Or do you?

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I don't oppose it. I just see why people are wasting their energy trying to excuse his actions. He has to be one of the dumbest SOB in the league to leave a paper trail via the company email system.

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(I assume you mean "don't" see)
I'm not excusing it. If this is the standard, then let's hold every employee in the NFL to the standard. Is this unreasonable?

Thee University said:

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Jon Gruden for President!

Dave Chapelle for Vice President!

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You realize Chappelle is all for Kaepernick kneeling for the anthem and destroyed the people who blackballed him from the league. But you want him to be VP because he told some trans jokes?

Pretty sure you and Chappelle and you are polar opposites.