FormerFlash said:

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Fozzie said:

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Doug said:

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xiledinok said:

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If Baylor uses it as an opportunity to have a corporate sponsor like they absolutely should, the nickname should come from the sponsor.

The current facility is not an excuse for the men to not make the tournament. Our coach is still looking for his breakout conference championship. It gets harder to sell his program each new season. A decade and a half is a good sample size for the stat guys.

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Exactly. If you can't win it all in 15 years.... you never will.
Extremely nice guy.. yes.
Award winning coach... NO.
Reaching the Round of 8 is more luck of the Bracket, than being elite.
Only Basketball loyalist get excited about Scott Drew Basketball.
The butts in the seats prove it.

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critical thinking is not your strong suit, I fully understand.

About 10 teams are trying to win in WBB. You can celebrate the 2nd highest paid coach in her sport with a bloated budget that spends money like a shopaholic on Black Friday, making the Elite 8 each year only to get bounced by some 3 point shooting team if you want.

In MBB, we have 350 teams trying hard to win. Certainly every P5 school is putting significant resources towards that end. Drew is 48 and in his coaching prime and has already proven himself as a winner during the learning years. Give him a new fieldhouse and an evolving roster that places emphasis on 3 pt shooting (Drew understands the game is evolving and changed his roster accordingly), there is no telling what he could do in his prime. Perhaps stumble into a national title like a Jay Wright.

The men do outdraw the women by the way. I root for both teams to do well. But hopefully our AD is prioritizing the men and football because those two sports are the only ones that matter financially.

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I'm always amazed when women's basketball fans try to act like there is any comparison between the two sports. Everytime someone tries to compare Geno's UConn streak to Wooden's 88 consecutive I cringe. There are literally 8 women's teams capable of winning a natty each year and they beat every other team by 30+.

The men's tournament has existed since 1939. All four number 1 seeds have made the final four exactly once, in 2008 when Memphis, Kansas, UNC, and UCLA made it. The women's tournament has only been around since 1982 and it's happened 4 times. The talent disparity in women's college basketball is absurd. 7 teams have gone undefeated in men's basketball, none since 1976, and none since the tournament expanded to 64 teams. In women's basketball it's already happened 12 times just since 1973. Our 2012 Lady Bears among that group.

Yes, we're lucky that Baylor is one of the "it" programs that gets that high level talent and get's to be in that elite group. But bagging on Scott Drew for what he hasn't accomplished is ridiculous considering what he has accomplished. I would argue Mulkey only winning 1 national championship out of 4 years with Griner on the team is a huge black mark on her resume. Griner was the most dominant physical presence to ever step foot on a women's college court. Those teams really underperformed.

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Fozzie said:

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how are you measuring interest? One way to measure is attendance. Another way is TV ratings. I won't bore you with the overwhelming discrepancy in TV ratings between Baylor MBB and Baylor WBB. We will just be generous and say it is a statistical anomaly that has existed for a very long time.

I will grant that Mulkey is unbelievable in cultivating her cult of WBB supporters in Waco. She is amazing at that and deserves accolades because that takes work. Scott could take some notes from her.

Now on to actual attendance.

WBB

2012: 9160
2013: 6881
2014: 6341
2015: 6283
2016: 6171
2017: 5849

So Waco's support of the Lady Bears is down 36% and getting worse every year? Dying off?

MBB

2012: 6705
2013: 6806
2014: 6918
2015: 6410
2016: 6812
2017: 6140

Men are down 8% during that same time period. But note that the men are outdrawing the women in actual attendance.

Do you have some other form of measurement? Eye test? Feelings? Gossip?

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Fozzie said:

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Kim's excellence fund is around $150k annually

Scott's is $75k

Big props to Kim for beating the bushes and rustling up that money but we are talking drop in the bucket type stuff in the big picture.

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Doug said:

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Fozzie said:

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Kim's excellence fund is around $150k annually

Scott's is $75k

Big props to Kim for beating the bushes and rustling up that money but we are talking drop in the bucket type stuff in the big picture.

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Do you just make this stuff up as you go?
Or are you a pathological liar?
I know individuals who give more than $150K to Kim's fund.

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Doug said:

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FormerFlash said:

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Fozzie said:

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Doug said:

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xiledinok said:

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If Baylor uses it as an opportunity to have a corporate sponsor like they absolutely should, the nickname should come from the sponsor.

The current facility is not an excuse for the men to not make the tournament. Our coach is still looking for his breakout conference championship. It gets harder to sell his program each new season. A decade and a half is a good sample size for the stat guys.

---

Exactly. If you can't win it all in 15 years.... you never will.
Extremely nice guy.. yes.
Award winning coach... NO.
Reaching the Round of 8 is more luck of the Bracket, than being elite.
Only Basketball loyalist get excited about Scott Drew Basketball.
The butts in the seats prove it.

---

critical thinking is not your strong suit, I fully understand.

About 10 teams are trying to win in WBB. You can celebrate the 2nd highest paid coach in her sport with a bloated budget that spends money like a shopaholic on Black Friday, making the Elite 8 each year only to get bounced by some 3 point shooting team if you want.

In MBB, we have 350 teams trying hard to win. Certainly every P5 school is putting significant resources towards that end. Drew is 48 and in his coaching prime and has already proven himself as a winner during the learning years. Give him a new fieldhouse and an evolving roster that places emphasis on 3 pt shooting (Drew understands the game is evolving and changed his roster accordingly), there is no telling what he could do in his prime. Perhaps stumble into a national title like a Jay Wright.

The men do outdraw the women by the way. I root for both teams to do well. But hopefully our AD is prioritizing the men and football because those two sports are the only ones that matter financially.

---

I'm always amazed when women's basketball fans try to act like there is any comparison between the two sports. Everytime someone tries to compare Geno's UConn streak to Wooden's 88 consecutive I cringe. There are literally 8 women's teams capable of winning a natty each year and they beat every other team by 30+.

The men's tournament has existed since 1939. All four number 1 seeds have made the final four exactly once, in 2008 when Memphis, Kansas, UNC, and UCLA made it. The women's tournament has only been around since 1982 and it's happened 4 times. The talent disparity in women's college basketball is absurd. 7 teams have gone undefeated in men's basketball, none since 1976, and none since the tournament expanded to 64 teams. In women's basketball it's already happened 12 times just since 1973. Our 2012 Lady Bears among that group.

Yes, we're lucky that Baylor is one of the "it" programs that gets that high level talent and get's to be in that elite group. But bagging on Scott Drew for what he hasn't accomplished is ridiculous considering what he has accomplished. I would argue Mulkey only winning 1 national championship out of 4 years with Griner on the team is a huge black mark on her resume. Griner was the most dominant physical presence to ever step foot on a women's college court. Those teams really underperformed.

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"I have no interest in the game. That's the way the majority of Waco feels. You can't expect people to support a sport they have zero interest in. I don't care what your opinion is about Women's basketball. The number's show that Waco is not a Men's basketball town... and NEVER will be. Trying to force fans to like a sport out of team loyalty will never work. That has been the Baylor motive for years and the gym still remains bare.

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FormerFlash said:

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Doug said:

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Fozzie said:

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how are you measuring interest? One way to measure is attendance. Another way is TV ratings. I won't bore you with the overwhelming discrepancy in TV ratings between Baylor MBB and Baylor WBB. We will just be generous and say it is a statistical anomaly that has existed for a very long time.

I will grant that Mulkey is unbelievable in cultivating her cult of WBB supporters in Waco. She is amazing at that and deserves accolades because that takes work. Scott could take some notes from her.

Now on to actual attendance.

WBB

2012: 9160
2013: 6881
2014: 6341
2015: 6283
2016: 6171
2017: 5849

So Waco's support of the Lady Bears is down 36% and getting worse every year? Dying off?

MBB

2012: 6705
2013: 6806
2014: 6918
2015: 6410
2016: 6812
2017: 6140

Men are down 8% during that same time period. But note that the men are outdrawing the women in actual attendance.

Do you have some other form of measurement? Eye test? Feelings? Gossip?

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Yes I do. It's called Excellence Funds.
The Women's program is one of the best funded in America.
You Dallas Boy's (Where the majority of Drew's support comes from) are all talk and no walk.
There is a reason the women stay at the Ritz, and the men stay at Motel 6.
If you want a top quality program... pay for it!
Where's your Dallas Pride? You got 30,000 alumni in the Metroplex. if the REALLY like basketball... pay for it. We only got 15,000 in Waco, but we've proven our point... WE DON'T CARE!

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I've spent the majority of my career in higher ed fundraising, much of that at Baylor, and the idea that excellence funds are in any way a measure of program strength, viability, or interest is laughable. Seriously. I literally laughed out loud while reading your post.

Women's basketball is followed by a miniscule minority of the basketball watching public who always seem to be on some kind of crusade to brow beat basketball fans into submission based on the idea that the women's game is better. It's usually based on some ridiculous buzz phrase like, "it's more fundamental." It's not, btw, and statistics prove it. Women's basketball is barely a blip on the radar of even the most hardcore sports fan because it just isn't very good. It's an inferior product, in a horribly non-competitive environment, that in most cases loses money with very few exceptions. The highest paid WNBA player makes $110,000 per year. The NBA league minimum is over $838,000. Take a wild guess why that is...

The WNBA is basically a charity organization the NBA funded in a goodwill effort to grow the game with the female demographic. That has failed miserably so they sold the teams off to private investors and NBA franchises. To this day still more than half the league's teams lose money annually but the women's players all expect to be paid more and want a conversation started about wage gaps. Adam Silver said himself in an interview, it's not a title 9 issue. It's a business issue and until the interest increases, the salaries wont.

You know who the largest population of women's basketball fans are? Old men. Do you know why? I don't, empirically, but I've always assumed it had racist underpinnings. Racist old white people who don't like watching young black athletes play a flashy brand of basketball while making millions. Honest question. How old are you?

I noticed in all your Drew bashing, you didn't take the time to reply to my observations on Mulkey's Griner teams underperforming. So transparent.

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FormerFlash said:

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Doug said:

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Fozzie said:

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Doug said:

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Timbear said:

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Why waste $ on a new Arena when we can't beat low level teams?

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Men's basketball is not big in Waco. Not know and never has been.
High school games draw 200 on the average night.
The building will not change that.
Unless the BBF is hiding something, the interest is just not gaining traction.
I strongly suspect my Women's tickets will be in the Ferrell Center 5 years from now.

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we get it Douglas you and Mulkey are stuck in the past and have no vision. Leave this decision to the adults.

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Mulkey wins Conference and National titles in the Ferrell Center.
Maybe the problem is your coach and not the building.

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This is bashing Drew moron. What's most ridiculous is you're bashing him for not winning a national championship which very few coaches have ever accomplished. Each season, in a competitive landscape of over 300 teams, 1 wins a national championship. In women's basketball, Mulkey has about a 1 in 8 chance of winning a natty every season.

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