What's your best evidence for the existence of God?

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BaylorJacket
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11:00a, 2/16/23
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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11:15a, 2/16/23
26 years ago, my daughter was born 10 weeks early and weighed 2.6 lbs. She is perfectly healthy. Next week she will give birth to her own baby.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to BaylorJacket • 11:32a, 2/16/23
BaylorJacket said:

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God -
"Philosophers can argue the existence of God, but it takes me just a few Google searches to show you the existence of the Devil"

I am convinced of the existence of Satan. If he exists then it stands to reason that God, his great enemy, also is real.

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BaylorJacket
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In reply to RD2WINAGNBEAR86 • 11:44a, 2/16/23
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
26 years ago, my daughter was born 10 weeks early and weighed 2.6 lbs. She is perfectly healthy. Next week she will give birth to her own baby.
Thank you for sharing - I am happy to hear about your daughters health!
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BaylorJacket
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 11:51a, 2/16/23
Redbrickbear said:
BaylorJacket said:

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God -
"Philosophers can argue the existence of God, but it takes me just a few Google searches to show you the existence of the Devil"

I am convinced of the existence of Satan. If he exists then it stands to reason that God, his great enemy, also is real.
As a former Christian, one of the first core beliefs that I deconstructed was the idea of a literal Satan. In my opinion, many of the passages that refer to Satan in the Bible are using metaphorical or symbolic language to describe abstract concepts (for example, in the book of Revelation, Satan is described as a "dragon" with "horns" and "seven heads," which may be a metaphorical description of the corrupt power structures of the Roman Empire)

I definitely agree with you though that evil exists in this world and I have no problem summarizing this collective evil as "Satan".
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Adriacus Peratuun
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In reply to BaylorJacket • 12:00p, 2/16/23
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to Adriacus Peratuun • 12:03p, 2/16/23
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.
Its certainly a puzzle.

Not at all as easy and simple as we were made to believe in public school...aka evolution is air tight.




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BaylorJacket
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In reply to Adriacus Peratuun • 12:10p, 2/16/23
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.

Could you please expand a bit more on this?
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Adriacus Peratuun
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In reply to BaylorJacket • 12:13p, 2/16/23
BaylorJacket said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.

Could you please expand a bit more on this?
The universe is comprised of [among other realities] inanimate objects and animate objects.

Animation requires a viable explanation. None exists in science.

Stated otherwise: how did life begin? Prove your hypothesis.
There is greater truth in religion……"I can't explain it, it arises from a greater power" than in science "let me offer you a bunch of conflicting hypothetical nonsense that I claim to be immutable truth".

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Doc Holliday
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12:25p, 2/16/23
A scientific/axiomatic take:

Modern physics is finding that spacetime isn't fundamental. Last year a Nobel was won for proving that universe isn't locally real.

[url=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/][/url]We've also found objects outside of spacetime that project down to spacetime such as the amplituhedron, cosmological polytopes along with decorated permutations. Planck scale is too shallow to have operational meaning beyond it. The universe is absolutely not just physicalism, it's a projection of something. Spacetime is doomed, it's not fundamental reality.

What some physicists and theorists propose is that the substrate of reality is consciousness. That consciousness is what's projecting spacetime (our reality) and it's using spacetime as a tool to understand itself. Donald Hoffman is attempting to piece this together. This is not the same thing as human brain consciousness, which we've been unable to prove.

Watch:


An individual with the current highest IQ of 195, Chris Langan, uses the axiomatic method in his CTMU theory to explain how fundamental reality is Syntax/logic that self creates consciousness and that consciousness projects spacetime.

[url=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/][/url]It very well may be that God is ultimate consciousness and we are individual conscious agents of God/Monad. We are made in his image.

[url=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/][/url]
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BusyTarpDuster2017
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1:09p, 2/16/23
The universe, the earth, life on earth, the unfathomable complexity of the human body, the code of life in DNA, good, evil, and especially, our consciousness of it all.....points to design, intelligence, and purpose. This incontrovertibly can only come from a MIND. A mind belonging to a being that by necessity must have incomprehensible power and knowledge, and exist outside of our universe thereby being timeless and dimensionless. A being that is personal and moral, who is able to author a thing so inexplicable as our individual consciousness, so that we may personally experience and appreciate the created universe, and know and love the Creator, as well as know and love others.
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BaylorJacket
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In reply to Adriacus Peratuun • 1:45p, 2/16/23
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.

Could you please expand a bit more on this?
The universe is comprised of [among other realities] inanimate objects and animate objects.

Animation requires a viable explanation. None exists in science.

Stated otherwise: how did life begin? Prove your hypothesis.
There is greater truth in religion……"I can't explain it, it arises from a greater power" than in science "let me offer you a bunch of conflicting hypothetical nonsense that I claim to be immutable truth".

While we do not 100% understand every single process of abiogenesis, I'd disagree that "none exists in science".

For example, one of the most famous experiments, the Miller-Urey Experiment, proves that a mixture of gases can produce amino acids and other organic material. This is not hypothetical nonsense, but something repeatedly performed in a lab passing an electric current through a mixture of gases that simulate the early Earth's atmosphere.

We are in the infancy stages of Astrobiology, yet already have a somewhat decent understanding of abiogenesis and macro-evolution.
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BaylorJacket
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 1:50p, 2/16/23
Doc Holliday said:
A scientific/axiomatic take:

Modern physics is finding that spacetime isn't fundamental. Last year a Nobel was won for proving that universe isn't locally real.

[url=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/][/url]We've also found objects outside of spacetime that project down to spacetime such as the amplituhedron, cosmological polytopes along with decorated permutations. Planck scale is too shallow to have operational meaning beyond it. The universe is absolutely not just physicalism, it's a projection of something. Spacetime is doomed, it's not fundamental reality.

What some physicists and theorists propose is that the substrate of reality is consciousness. That consciousness is what's projecting spacetime (our reality) and it's using spacetime as a tool to understand itself. Donald Hoffman is attempting to piece this together. This is not the same thing as human brain consciousness, which we've been unable to prove.

Watch:


An individual with the current highest IQ of 195, Chris Langan, uses the axiomatic method in his CTMU theory to explain how fundamental reality is Syntax/logic that self creates consciousness and that consciousness projects spacetime.

It very well may be that God is ultimate consciousness and we are individual conscious agents of God/Monad. We are made in his image.
Absolutely fascinating concept, thank you for sharing. I will watch the video when I get some time.
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Adriacus Peratuun
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In reply to BaylorJacket • 2:02p, 2/16/23
BaylorJacket said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.

Could you please expand a bit more on this?
The universe is comprised of [among other realities] inanimate objects and animate objects.

Animation requires a viable explanation. None exists in science.

Stated otherwise: how did life begin? Prove your hypothesis.
There is greater truth in religion……"I can't explain it, it arises from a greater power" than in science "let me offer you a bunch of conflicting hypothetical nonsense that I claim to be immutable truth".

While we do not 100% understand every single process of abiogenesis, I'd disagree that "none exists in science".

For example, one of the most famous experiments, the Miller-Urey Experiment, proves that a mixture of gases can produce amino acids and other organic material. This is not hypothetical nonsense, but something repeatedly performed in a lab passing an electric current through a mixture of gases that simulate the early Earth's atmosphere.

We are in the infancy stages of Astrobiology, yet already have a somewhat decent understanding of abiogenesis and macro-evolution.
Miller-Urey and it's progeny experiments "establishing" that organic material can be produced solely from inorganic material have encountered numerous hiccups along the way………..No? Like using glass as the container?
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LIB,MR BEARS
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2:08p, 2/16/23
"I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?"

There is no proof. There is no proof that your spouse will not stab you tonight in your sleep.

There is a ton of evidence your spouse loves you and wishes you no harm. Proof? No

As for God, look at the gospels. Are they reliable? I think the evidence says yes. If the evidence for the gospels being trustworthy is good then Christ is who He says He is and His resurrection is true. The gospels indicate that Christ spoke of God's word (the Old Testament) being true.

Reliable gospels = Reliable Christ = Reliable Old Testament = Reliable Creator God

In addition to reading the gospels, I suggest reading Cold Case Christianity and The Case For Christ.



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quash
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In reply to Adriacus Peratuun • 2:16p, 2/16/23
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.


God of the gaps argument.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
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Coke Bear
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2:19p, 2/16/23
The rational/logical side of me has explored Thomas' Five Ways. I've also investigated the Kalam Cosmological Argument and the Fine Tuning argument.

I like them all. They each bring a little something to the table. Philosophically, the Thomas and Kalam arguments are fun to think about and discuss with others.

It's the Fine-Tuning argument that is, for me, the most amazing concept to grasp. When I read 300+ mathematical constants in our universe that exist and changing even one of those by the smallest fraction, and life wouldn't exist, blows me away.

You may have researched this; however, I've included a link (one of many different ones to choose).
Fine Tune Link

Finally, I've seen God's fingerprints in my life in many ways and in many times. My retelling them would not convince a skeptic; however, they are very real to me.
Hundreds of near-miss accidents that I have looked up just in time to avoid (my guardian angel works overtime.)

A few years back I was extremely frustrated with my job/career. I was applying everywhere and could get no traction anywhere. One night in final desperation, I finally broke down and said, "Alright God. I give up. I can't do it anymore. I'm completely lost and don't know what to do. I've tried my way and it's getting nowhere. I give it all to you. I'll do what ever you ask me to do." That next day, out of the blue, a friend of mine calls me and presents a job proposal. It was the lifeline I needed.

Finally, I dated this girl in my senior year in high school. She eventually broke up with me. (Teen heartache is the worst pain in the world). What made it made it worse was that she became part of my friend's group, so I was bitter and distant to them and her for a while. After some time, we became friends again. I left to go to school at UT. After two years in Austin, I decided to move back to Waco and finish at Baylor. When I returned, I needed a job. Being friends with her still, she got me hired on a video store. Not the one near my house in Woodway, but one on South Valley Mills. My first day there, I meet this cute Baylor girl that worked there. Yada, Yada, Yada Saturday the 25th, that cute girl and I will celebrate 28 years (and three kids) together. All because I remained friends with this girl from HS.

TLDR; if we look at our lives objectively, we can see how God has been there for us working behind the scenes in good times and in bad.
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Wrecks Quan Dough
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2:30p, 2/16/23
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
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quash
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In reply to Wrecks Quan Dough • 2:38p, 2/16/23
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.

Especially the Wandering Jew.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
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Adriacus Peratuun
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In reply to quash • 2:41p, 2/16/23
quash said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.


God of the gaps argument.
Not that simple. Not an argument that the unknown = God.

But rather the honest admission that the unknown can = the possibility of an explanation exceeding the parameters of currently accepted science or the ability of mankind to understand.

My largest problem with evolutionary scientists is the same that I have with an "expert" in any field…….the absolute steadfast unwillingness to admit "I don't know, I might never know, the correct explanation might conflict with my existing beliefs, the correct explanation might be beyond my ability to understand, therefor my beliefs based on incomplete data and/or science are not more valid than beliefs based on something else".

It generally offends the scientific community, but I admittedly believe that useful wisdom begins with acceptance of our limitation to understand large parts of our reality.
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Wrecks Quan Dough
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In reply to quash • 2:43p, 2/16/23
quash said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.

Especially the Wandering Jew.
Has anyone ever seen you and Waco 1947 in the same place at the same time?
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to Wrecks Quan Dough • 2:47p, 2/16/23
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
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Wrecks Quan Dough
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 3:00p, 2/16/23
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
No, this is Judeo-Christian apologetics based on fulfilled prophecy about the Jews being brought back into their land after being disbursed out of their land.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to Wrecks Quan Dough • 3:14p, 2/16/23
He Hate Me said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
No, this is Judeo-Christian apologetics based on fulfilled prophecy about the Jews being brought back into their land after being disbursed out of their land.
At some point any other people might have started to think that after being expelled from 109 countries/cities/lands...that instead of God thinking they were a superior people "the chosen"...maybe he was chastising them for certain actions or beliefs they held.

But I guess doubling down with "we are a racially superior people" was the better option.
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Wrecks Quan Dough
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 3:18p, 2/16/23
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
No, this is Judeo-Christian apologetics based on fulfilled prophecy about the Jews being brought back into their land after being disbursed out of their land.
At some point any other people might have started to think that after being expelled from 109 countries/cities/lands...that instead of God thinking they were a superior people "the chosen"...maybe he was chastising them for certain actions or beliefs they held.

But I guess doubling down with "we are a racially superior people" was the better option.
God does not think the Jews are a "superior" people. You should read the first five books. G-d does not go easy on them.
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Robert Wilson
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3:20p, 2/16/23
I don't think you can prove the existence of God. You can only make belief in it plausible.

The universal moral standard argument by CS Lewis is pretty good. I also like his argument that our need/want for a creator and relationship with the creator is some evidence for the existence of one. A longstanding, widespread desire for something implies the existence of the thing that fulfills it. Hunger implies food. Tiredness implies sleep. Etc. We are looking for something that, based on our hunger, reasonably should exist. Otherwise, why is the hunger there? Some of the intelligent design arguments, though they fall short of proof, add to plausibility. A thousand monkeys typing into forever might never type Shakespeare. They might just type a whole lot of gibberish.

None of this gets you to proof. But I think you can cobble together enough arguments to make belief plausible.
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LIB,MR BEARS
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 3:34p, 2/16/23
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
No, this is Judeo-Christian apologetics based on fulfilled prophecy about the Jews being brought back into their land after being disbursed out of their land.
At some point any other people might have started to think that after being expelled from 109 countries/cities/lands...that instead of God thinking they were a superior people "the chosen"...maybe he was chastising them for certain actions or beliefs they held.

But I guess doubling down with "we are a racially superior people" was the better option.
Unless you are picking first for kickball in elementary school, chosen does not equal superior.
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HouseMoney
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In reply to BaylorJacket • 4:07p, 2/16/23
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
This is a thread I could spend a lot of time on, thanks for starting it.

The reality is that on both sides, God or no God, there requires a leap. From a strictly rational standpoint, the leap is drastically shorter to God than it is to no God.

I start with intelligent design. There are lots of theories but there's always one that strikes you. One for me is with regards to an argument that "given enough time, human life could be formed by chance' that goes something like this: "Let's say you throw red, white and blue confetti out of an airplane 1,000 feet above your house, whats the chance it comes down in an american flag? What about 10,000 feet? Does that improve the probability? "

Second law of thermodynamics simply put, is that nature disorders. It's hell bent on disorder, more time, more disorder.

There is much more in the middle here for me but for brevity's sake I am giving the beginning and ending.

I end with the historical evidence of Jesus as some have already stated is overwhelming.

At the end of the day, we must land somewhere. I have a great amount of distrust for anyone who claims to have it all figured out and is not willing to go through some arguments that may or may not support where they land because I feel these are some of the most life-giving conversations we can ever have.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 4:16p, 2/16/23
LIB,MR BEARS said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
No, this is Judeo-Christian apologetics based on fulfilled prophecy about the Jews being brought back into their land after being disbursed out of their land.
At some point any other people might have started to think that after being expelled from 109 countries/cities/lands...that instead of God thinking they were a superior people "the chosen"...maybe he was chastising them for certain actions or beliefs they held.

But I guess doubling down with "we are a racially superior people" was the better option.
Unless you are picking first for kickball in elementary school, chosen does not equal superior.


Agree.

You should email the Chief rabbi of Israel and tell him.



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ATL Bear
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 4:37p, 2/16/23
Redbrickbear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
No, this is Judeo-Christian apologetics based on fulfilled prophecy about the Jews being brought back into their land after being disbursed out of their land.
At some point any other people might have started to think that after being expelled from 109 countries/cities/lands...that instead of God thinking they were a superior people "the chosen"...maybe he was chastising them for certain actions or beliefs they held.

But I guess doubling down with "we are a racially superior people" was the better option.
Unless you are picking first for kickball in elementary school, chosen does not equal superior.


Agree.

You should email the Chief rabbi of Israel and tell him.



Shall I tell you what they do to you in Iran and Saudi Arabia when you don't abide by their religious law.

Great job derailing a promising thread.
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LIB,MR BEARS
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 5:10p, 2/16/23
Redbrickbear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
No, this is Judeo-Christian apologetics based on fulfilled prophecy about the Jews being brought back into their land after being disbursed out of their land.
At some point any other people might have started to think that after being expelled from 109 countries/cities/lands...that instead of God thinking they were a superior people "the chosen"...maybe he was chastising them for certain actions or beliefs they held.

But I guess doubling down with "we are a racially superior people" was the better option.
Unless you are picking first for kickball in elementary school, chosen does not equal superior.


Agree.

You should email the Chief rabbi of Israel and tell him.



Do terrorist do a good job representing Muslims? Do klansmen do a good job representing whites? Did those burning witches do a good job representing Christianity?

Kind of a silly response from you.
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Golem
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In reply to BaylorJacket • 5:11p, 2/16/23
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!


The law of conservation of energy. It states that energy can neither be created nor be destroyed. Although, it may be transformed from one form to another. Regardless, the total energy of the system is conserved.

The Big Bang Theory postulates a massive explosion of energy at the beginning of what is for us, time. This began, as the theory goes, as an initial singularity thought to have contained all the energy and spacetime of the Universe.

A. Given the law of conservation of energy stating that fact that energy can never be created or destroyed;

B. Given that energy sufficient to create the universe was created and placed into our closed system (the universe);

C. Given A contradicts B if one supposed it happened within the system naturally, something or someone acting outside of time/space must have created the energy in the initial singularity. There can be no creation ex nihilo in physics.

That's my evidence of God or an entity so powerful we call Him God. Nothing comes from nothing. There's no bang without the initial singularity. That singularity could only come from outside space/time.

(Multiverse assumptions are just a cop out for people who don't want to admit the above and lean on their versions of religion to explain away the otherwise unexplainable)
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 5:20p, 2/16/23
LIB,MR BEARS said:
Redbrickbear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Redbrickbear said:
He Hate Me said:
Why the Jews, Your Majesty, the Jews.

The fact that this small people group has been scattered around the world, dispersed and driven from the lands where they were scattered, and persecuted for centuries and then, in fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, they continue to exist as an identifiable people group and return to their ancient home. That testifies to the existence and identity of God.
There is anti-Semitism and then there is philo-Semitism.

This is raw in your face unapologetic Hebrew race worship and slavish philo-Semitism.

I expect this kind of rant to come from the mouth of a extremist Zionist settler on the West Bank before he blows a hole in the head of a Palestinian child with his USA given AR-15
No, this is Judeo-Christian apologetics based on fulfilled prophecy about the Jews being brought back into their land after being disbursed out of their land.
At some point any other people might have started to think that after being expelled from 109 countries/cities/lands...that instead of God thinking they were a superior people "the chosen"...maybe he was chastising them for certain actions or beliefs they held.

But I guess doubling down with "we are a racially superior people" was the better option.
Unless you are picking first for kickball in elementary school, chosen does not equal superior.


Agree.

You should email the Chief rabbi of Israel and tell him.



Do terrorist do a good job representing Muslims? Do klansmen do a good job representing whites? Did those burning witches do a good job representing Christianity?

Kind of a silly response from you.


Is a Klansmen the spiritual leader of a whole Nation?

What a silly way to discount obvious in your face Jewish race hate and racial supremacy ideology.
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BusyTarpDuster2017
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In reply to BaylorJacket • 5:51p, 2/16/23
BaylorJacket said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.

Could you please expand a bit more on this?
The universe is comprised of [among other realities] inanimate objects and animate objects.

Animation requires a viable explanation. None exists in science.

Stated otherwise: how did life begin? Prove your hypothesis.
There is greater truth in religion……"I can't explain it, it arises from a greater power" than in science "let me offer you a bunch of conflicting hypothetical nonsense that I claim to be immutable truth".

While we do not 100% understand every single process of abiogenesis, I'd disagree that "none exists in science".

For example, one of the most famous experiments, the Miller-Urey Experiment, proves that a mixture of gases can produce amino acids and other organic material. This is not hypothetical nonsense, but something repeatedly performed in a lab passing an electric current through a mixture of gases that simulate the early Earth's atmosphere.

We are in the infancy stages of Astrobiology, yet already have a somewhat decent understanding of abiogenesis and macro-evolution.
He said no "viable" explanation exists. The Miller-Urey experiment merely resulted in the production of an incomplete set of building blocks required to make proteins. I don't think that qualifies as a viable explanation. It would be like observing the natural formation of a concrete mixture of sand, limestone, and silicates together with an iron rod embedded in the middle of it, and claiming to have found a natural formation of a buttress, thereby giving us a viable explanation of the spontaneous formation of the Empire State building.

I would say that the explanation of abiogenesis does not start with the formation of organic building blocks, but rather with how those building blocks came together to form fully functional proteins. And even as exquisitely complex as that is, it is still but a tiny, tiny step in the formation of life.
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LIB,MR BEARS
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In reply to BusyTarpDuster2017 • 6:15p, 2/16/23
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
BaylorJacket said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
Adriacus Peratuun said:
BaylorJacket said:
I've been exploring different religious and philosophical ideas lately, and I would love to hear your thoughts on what convinces you that God exists. As someone who hasn't yet been convinced by arguments for the existence of God, I'm hoping to learn more about what draws others to belief in a higher power.

I don't necessarily doubt the possibility of such a being, but I also don't know how one could be proven or dis-proven definitively. That's why I'd like to hear from some of you who do believe in God - what is it about your experience or understanding of the world that makes you believe there is a God?

Of course, I'm open to hearing from people who don't believe in God as well. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Life.

No scientific explanation for living organisms is remotely viable.

Could you please expand a bit more on this?
The universe is comprised of [among other realities] inanimate objects and animate objects.

Animation requires a viable explanation. None exists in science.

Stated otherwise: how did life begin? Prove your hypothesis.
There is greater truth in religion……"I can't explain it, it arises from a greater power" than in science "let me offer you a bunch of conflicting hypothetical nonsense that I claim to be immutable truth".

While we do not 100% understand every single process of abiogenesis, I'd disagree that "none exists in science".

For example, one of the most famous experiments, the Miller-Urey Experiment, proves that a mixture of gases can produce amino acids and other organic material. This is not hypothetical nonsense, but something repeatedly performed in a lab passing an electric current through a mixture of gases that simulate the early Earth's atmosphere.

We are in the infancy stages of Astrobiology, yet already have a somewhat decent understanding of abiogenesis and macro-evolution.
He said no "viable" explanation exists. The Miller-Urey experiment merely resulted in the production of an incomplete set of building blocks required to make proteins. I don't think that qualifies as a viable explanation. It would be like observing the natural formation of a concrete mixture of sand, limestone, and silicates together with an iron rod embedded in the middle of it, and claiming to have found a natural formation of a buttress, thereby giving us a viable explanation of the spontaneous formation of the Empire State building.

I would say that the explanation of abiogenesis does not start with the formation of organic building blocks, but rather with how those building blocks came together to form fully functional proteins. And even as exquisitely complex as that is, it is still but a tiny, tiny step in the formation of life.

It's a long way to go to get from there to the clotting factor in our blood.

ps… where did the gas come from?
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