BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

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No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

Holy ****, this might be the most ignorant post I've seen on the board. Homosexuality is by definition a sexual orientation that is characterized by a romantic and/or sexual attraction to individuals of the same gender.

Do you genuinely believe no one is actually homosexual?

---

A homosexual is someone who engages in sexual conduct with someone of the same sex. If you don't act on a same sex attraction, then you are either celibate or still straight.

In other words, there is no homosexual without a homosexual act. No one is a homosexual but some acts are homosexual.

---

Is this your personal definition?

---

No. That is pretty much what you have to do to be a homosexual. Sine qua non.

---

Here is the definition of homosexuality from a few different sources:

• Collins English Dictionary: "Sexual activity or desire directed towards a person or persons of one's own sex."
• Cambridge Dictionary: "Sexual activity or desire for people of the same sex."
• American Heritage Dictionary: "Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex."

To be clear, you believe that these definitions of homosexuality are incorrect, and it is instead purely about the act and not the desire? Do you have any evidence to back this up, or are you just being ignorant?

---

These definitions are incorrect. Because to be a homosexual, you have to be engaged in conduct that makes you sexual with the same kind. If one is merely attracted to someone of the same sex, then that is all there is to it. You don't become a homosexual without a sexual act--this is the literal meaning of the two greek and latin words that were joined together. You should study the root words and etymology of the word.

This stuff about "an attraction" is better described as homoromantic or maybe even homoerotic.

---

While it is true that the word homosexual has its roots in Greek and Latin words meaning "same" and "sexual", respectively, the meaning of words can evolve and change over time.

I am not attempting to build a case for the definition of Homosexuality in 200BC Greece, but in present time with our drastically improved understanding of human sexual orientation.

---

Try defining "sexual" without using the word itself. The root sexual means "pertaining to copulation or generation" (from 1776) and "pertaining to erotic appetites and their gratification" and "peculiar to or affecting the organs of sex, venereal" (from 1799). It is pretty clear that the term homosexual refers to something a great deal more intense than mere attraction.

He Hate Me said:

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No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

And we can pray that behavior away.

Lulz

J.R. said:

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BaylorJacket said:

---

J.R. said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

Holy ****, this might be the most ignorant post I've seen on the board. Homosexuality is by definition a sexual orientation that is characterized by a romantic and/or sexual attraction to individuals of the same gender.

Do you genuinely believe no one is actually homosexual

---

he is an absolute moron! He has now surpassed old 83, Wang, and the rest of the nuts.

---

Lol - I don't want to conclude they a moron just based on this one interaction. Geniuses are capable of holding incorrect viewpoints and beliefs. An ignorant post is still an ignorant post though.

I mostly just hope to understand their thought process on why the believe it is a choice, and not an innate orientation that one does not choose.

---

I appreciate that, but this is common place for that dude.

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Yeah I am relatively new to posting here, so I still have not figured out who are the trolls and who are genuinely interested in discussing ideas.

quash said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

And we can pray that behavior away.

Lulz

---

Yes, you can. There are several who can attest to that fact.



https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2023/january/a-prayer-for-becket-ex-gay-son-discovers-his-mothers-secret-prayer-that-set-him-free

quash said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

And we can pray that behavior away.

Lulz

---

Does praying not help people control their desires-impulses-feelings?

Have you never watched a podcast or interview with a man who was formerly a sexually active homosexual that has given that up?

Are these guys just lying? Are they making it up?

Is praying useless?

Redbrickbear said:

---

1. Where is the proof that it is genetic or an innate orientation? If you have it...please post the info. Its an interesting topic to discuss.

---

Here is a small selection of scientific papers on the topic. It would be an oversimplification and incorrect of me to say "this gene when flipped makes you gay", but these studies show that one's sexual orientation is formed by one's biology in additional to one's experiences:

• "A genome-wide association study of male sexual orientation" by Alan R. Sanders et al. (2017). This study found genetic variations associated with male sexual orientation in a sample of over 2,300 men. The researchers concluded that "there are genetic influences on male sexual orientation, and that individual genetic variation contributes to the differences in male sexual orientation observed in the population." Sanders, A. R. et al. (2017). Scientific Reports, 7, 16950. Link: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-15736-4

• "Prenatal androgen exposure alters girls' responses to information indicating gender-appropriate behaviour" by Melissa Hines et al. (2016). This study found that girls who were exposed to higher levels of androgens (male hormones) in the womb were more likely to exhibit "masculine-typical" behavior and interests later in life, such as a preference for male-typical toys and activities. The researchers concluded that "prenatal androgen exposure contributes to the development of gendered behaviour and interests." Hines, M. et al. (2016). Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 371(1688), 20150125. Link: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2015.0125

• "Sexual orientation and neurocognitive functioning in humans: A meta-analysis and theoretical integration" by Qazi Rahman and Glenn Wilson (2003). This meta-analysis of 45 studies found that homosexual men and women differed from heterosexual men and women in several aspects of cognitive functioning, including verbal ability and spatial ability. The researchers concluded that "there is accumulating evidence for a neurocognitive basis to sexual orientation." Rahman, Q. and Wilson, G. D. (2003). Psychological Bulletin, 129(5), 699-725. Link: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2003-07348-001

• "Homosexual orientation in males: Correlation with prenatal and adult sex hormones" by Simon LeVay (1991). This study found that a region of the hypothalamus (part of the brain that regulates hormone production) was larger in homosexual men than in heterosexual men. The researcher also found that homosexual men had lower levels of a hormone called testosterone than heterosexual men. The author concluded that "these findings suggest that sexual orientation has a biological substrate." LeVay, S. (1991). Science, 253(5023), 1034-1037. Link: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/253/5023/1034

• "Sexual orientation, fraternal birth order, and the maternal immune hypothesis: A review" by Anthony F. Bogaert (2010). This review article discusses several lines of evidence that suggest a biological basis for homosexuality, including the fact that homosexual men are more likely to have older brothers than heterosexual men, and the fact that maternal immune responses to male-specific proteins may contribute to the development of homosexuality in male fetuses. The author concludes that "the evidence increasingly points to a biological basis for male homosexuality." Bogaert, A. F. (2010) Frontiers in Neuroendocrinology, 31(2), 241-259. Link: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091302210000303

Redbrickbear said:

---

2. Even if proven that homosexuality might be innate. That does not mean it is an acceptable sexual practice or lifestyle. We might one day find out BDSM fetish is innate or hardwired. That would not make it acceptable. Heterosexuality among men and the desire to sleep with as many women as possible being proven to be innate would still not make philandering behavior acceptable.

---

Could you please clarify why it is not an acceptable practice or lifestyle? If full adult consent is involved in the relationship, and the couple is safe and respectful, why is it no acceptable?

He Hate Me said:

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BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

Holy ****, this might be the most ignorant post I've seen on the board. Homosexuality is by definition a sexual orientation that is characterized by a romantic and/or sexual attraction to individuals of the same gender.

Do you genuinely believe no one is actually homosexual?

---

A homosexual is someone who engages in sexual conduct with someone of the same sex. If you don't act on a same sex attraction, then you are either celibate or still straight.

In other words, there is no homosexual without a homosexual act. No one is a homosexual but some acts are homosexual.

---

Is this your personal definition?

---

No. That is pretty much what you have to do to be a homosexual. Sine qua non.

---

Here is the definition of homosexuality from a few different sources:

• Collins English Dictionary: "Sexual activity or desire directed towards a person or persons of one's own sex."
• Cambridge Dictionary: "Sexual activity or desire for people of the same sex."
• American Heritage Dictionary: "Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex."

To be clear, you believe that these definitions of homosexuality are incorrect, and it is instead purely about the act and not the desire? Do you have any evidence to back this up, or are you just being ignorant?

---

These definitions are incorrect. Because to be a homosexual, you have to be engaged in conduct that makes you sexual with the same kind. If one is merely attracted to someone of the same sex, then that is all there is to it. You don't become a homosexual without a sexual act--this is the literal meaning of the two greek and latin words that were joined together. You should study the root words and etymology of the word.

This stuff about "an attraction" is better described as homoromantic or maybe even homoerotic.

---

While it is true that the word homosexual has its roots in Greek and Latin words meaning "same" and "sexual", respectively, the meaning of words can evolve and change over time.

I am not attempting to build a case for the definition of Homosexuality in 200BC Greece, but in present time with our drastically improved understanding of human sexual orientation.

---

Try defining "sexual" without using the word itself. The root sexual means "pertaining to copulation or generation" (from 1776) and "pertaining to erotic appetites and their gratification" and "peculiar to or affecting the organs of sex, venereal" (from 1799). It is pretty clear that the term homosexual refers to something a great deal more intense than mere attraction.

---

I agree with this, it is not just mere attraction, but also typically involves some form of sexual activity. Hence, the definitions provided give and/or when discussing attraction and action.

My point though, is you do not have to engage in the activity to be homosexual. Speaking for myself, I was very much aware of my attraction to females long before my first "sexual activity". I did not magically become Heterosexual when I had my first awkward kiss. Instead, I had crushes and attraction since Elementary, which obviously only grew (lol) with puberty.

Similarly, someone who is homosexual has the same innate attractions and desires that you and I have for the opposite sex (assuming you are straight - it's cool if you're not). They do not have to engage in the activity to all of a sudden be homosexual.

BaylorJacket said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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1. Where is the proof that it is genetic or an innate orientation? If you have it...please post the info. Its an interesting topic to discuss.

---

Here is a small selection of scientific papers on the topic. It would be an oversimplification and incorrect of me to say "this gene when flipped makes you gay", but these studies show that one's sexual orientation is formed by one's biology in additional to one's experiences:

---

Another interesting article:

In 1977, just over 10% of Americans thought gayness was something you were born with, according to Gallup. That number has steadily risen over time and is currently somewhere between 42% and 50%, depending on the poll. Throughout the same period, the number of Americans who believe homosexuality is "due to someone's upbringing/environment" fell from just under 60% to 37%.
[These ideas reached critical mass in pop culture, first with Lady Gaga's 2011 Born This Way and one year later with Macklemore's Same Love, the chorus of which has a gay person singing "I can't change even if I tried, even if I wanted to." Videos started circulating on the internet featuring gay people asking straight people "when they chose to be straight." Around the same time, the Human Rights Campaign declared unequivocally that "Being gay is not a choice," and to claim that it is "gives unwarranted credence to roundly disproven practices such as conversion or reparative therapy."

Quote:

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People who challenge the Born This Way narrative are often cast as homophobic, and their thinking is considered backward

---

As Jane Ward notes in Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men, what's interesting about many of these claims is how transparent their speakers are with their political motivations. "Such statements," she writes, "infuse biological accounts with an obligatory and nearly coercive force, suggesting that anyone who describes homosexual desire as a choice or social construction is playing into the hands of the enemy."

As Samantha Allen notes at The Daily Beast, the growing public support for gays and lesbians has grown out of proportion with the rise in the number of people who believe homosexuality is fixed at birth;

In spite of these studies, those who push against Born This Way narratives have been heavily criticized by gay activists. "They tell me my own homo-negativity is being manifested in my work," says Grzanka. Similarly, Ward has received her own hate mail for pushing against the ruling LGB narratives, with some gays telling her she's "worse than Ann Coulter,"

"Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors."]

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160627-i-am-gay-but-i-wasnt-born-this-way

Redbrickbear said:

---

1. You make the assumption that Christianity only cares for consent when it comes to human sexuality or sexual practices.

That might be societal standard...but not a religious one. We can talk more about why Christianity calls on people to conform their sexual practices to a higher moral code.

---

Sorry, I didn't mean to make that assumption. Completely agree, the New Testament does not use the term "consent" in relation to sexual relations, as the concept of sexual consent as we understand it today was not widely recognized or discussed during that time period.

By a higher moral code, I assume you mean specifically husband/wife relationships. Could you please specify why this form of relationship is the only methodology to have a loving and Chris-centered marriage with another human?

Redbrickbear said:

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2. Its quite obvious that humans are designed for heterosexual sexual activity. The human anus is not designed for sexual activity. I hope we can agree on that much at least.

---

I agree - the human anus is a part of the digestive system, and its primary function is to eliminate waste products from the body. Just so I can understand, I am assuming you think anal-sex is immoral for heterosexual couples as well? Same for oral sex?

Redbrickbear said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

J.R. said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

Holy ****, this might be the most ignorant post I've seen on the board. Homosexuality is by definition a sexual orientation that is characterized by a romantic and/or sexual attraction to individuals of the same gender.

Do you genuinely believe no one is actually homosexual

---

he is an absolute moron! He has now surpassed old 83, Wang, and the rest of the nuts.

---

Lol - I don't want to conclude they a moron just based on this one interaction. Geniuses are capable of holding incorrect viewpoints and beliefs. An ignorant post is still an ignorant post though.

I mostly just hope to understand their thought process on why the believe it is a choice, and not an innate orientation that one does not choose.

---

2. Even if proven that homosexuality might be innate. That does not mean it is an acceptable sexual practice or lifestyle. We might one day find out BDSM fetish is innate or hardwired. That would not make it acceptable. Heterosexuality among men and the desire to sleep with as many women as possible being proven to be innate would still not make philandering behavior acceptable.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/massive-study-finds-no-single-genetic-cause-of-same-sex-sexual-behavior/

---

I don't remember any poster saying it is an acceptable lifestyle. I have said there are people who have same sex attractions and who struggle with temptation.
There are people who are heterosexual who struggle with temptation (e.g. adultery or serial fornication).

Both groups have struggles with temptation

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

And we can pray that behavior away.

Lulz

---

Does praying not help people control their desires-impulses-feelings?

Have you never watched a podcast or interview with a man who was formerly a sexually active homosexual that has given that up?

Are these guys just lying? Are they making it up?

Is praying useless?

---

I don't doubt it can happen, but what if it doesn't? Does that mean God doesn't hear their prayers or doesn't love them?

Redbrickbear said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

1. Where is the proof that it is genetic or an innate orientation? If you have it...please post the info. Its an interesting topic to discuss.

---

Here is a small selection of scientific papers on the topic. It would be an oversimplification and incorrect of me to say "this gene when flipped makes you gay", but these studies show that one's sexual orientation is formed by one's biology in additional to one's experiences:

---

Another interesting article:

In 1977, just over 10% of Americans thought gayness was something you were born with, according to Gallup. That number has steadily risen over time and is currently somewhere between 42% and 50%, depending on the poll. Throughout the same period, the number of Americans who believe homosexuality is "due to someone's upbringing/environment" fell from just under 60% to 37%.
[These ideas reached critical mass in pop culture, first with Lady Gaga's 2011 Born This Way and one year later with Macklemore's Same Love, the chorus of which has a gay person singing "I can't change even if I tried, even if I wanted to." Videos started circulating on the internet featuring gay people asking straight people "when they chose to be straight." Around the same time, the Human Rights Campaign declared unequivocally that "Being gay is not a choice," and to claim that it is "gives unwarranted credence to roundly disproven practices such as conversion or reparative therapy."

Quote:

---

People who challenge the Born This Way narrative are often cast as homophobic, and their thinking is considered backward

---

As Jane Ward notes in Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men, what's interesting about many of these claims is how transparent their speakers are with their political motivations. "Such statements," she writes, "infuse biological accounts with an obligatory and nearly coercive force, suggesting that anyone who describes homosexual desire as a choice or social construction is playing into the hands of the enemy."

As Samantha Allen notes at The Daily Beast, the growing public support for gays and lesbians has grown out of proportion with the rise in the number of people who believe homosexuality is fixed at birth;

In spite of these studies, those who push against Born This Way narratives have been heavily criticized by gay activists. "They tell me my own homo-negativity is being manifested in my work," says Grzanka. Similarly, Ward has received her own hate mail for pushing against the ruling LGB narratives, with some gays telling her she's "worse than Ann Coulter,"

"Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors."]

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160627-i-am-gay-but-i-wasnt-born-this-way

---

To be clear, I am not arguing that someone is born homosexual, just as they are not born automatically heterosexual. As the journals I posted above suggest, one's genetics absolutely have an influence on one's sexual orientation, but it is not the sole factor. Your upbringing and experiences, especially as a child, have a large influence on your orientation.

The article you posted is also suggesting the same, here is the concluding paragraph:

Quote:

---

I don't think I was born gay. I don't think I was born straight. I was born the way all of us are born: as a human being with a seemingly infinite capacity to announce myself, to re-announce myself, to try on new identities like spring raincoats, to play with limiting categories, to challenge them and topple them, to cultivate my tastes and preferences, and, most importantly, to love and to receive love.

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

To be clear, I am not arguing that someone is born homosexual, just as they are not born automatically heterosexual. As the journals I posted above suggest, one's genetics absolutely have an influence on one's sexual orientation, but it is not the sole factor. Your upbringing and experiences, especially as a child, have a large influence on your orientation.

---

I think some are born with same sex attractions. I also think there is social contagion wherein some people may be led to think they are homosexual or transgender.

Osodecentx said:

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I don't remember any poster saying it is an acceptable lifestyle. I have said there are people who have same sex attractions and who struggle with temptation.
There are people who are heterosexual who struggle with temptation (e.g. adultery or serial fornication).

Both groups have struggles with temptation

---

I am advocating that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle, even from a Christian worldview.

It is unfair to compare a straight person's struggle with adultery to a gay person's same-sex attraction. The straight person has the legal freedom to love and marry someone, and yet chooses to pursue a relationship outside of this marriage. Beyond spiritual implications, this action directly hurts their spouse.

What is the solution for a gay person who "struggles" with same-sex attraction? To be celibate the rest of their lives? Celibacy is something that one should choose themselves if they feel led and called to, so that they can focus on other aspects of their lives. However, forcing someone to be celibate seems cruel in my opinion.

He Hate Me said:

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Osodecentx said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Osodecentx said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

Holy ****, this might be the most ignorant post I've seen on the board. Homosexuality is by definition a sexual orientation that is characterized by a romantic and/or sexual attraction to individuals of the same gender.

Do you genuinely believe no one is actually homosexual?

---

Have you ever read something on these boards that it made you want to slap that person upside the head and knock some sense into them?

---

All the time

---

and yet, you've not assaulted anyone. You've resisted your urges.

So by your method of applying definitions, you're a violent criminal yet by his method, you're not.

Double standard much?

---

Aren't we all? It is the definition of civility.
I bet you have committed adultery in your heart. "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Heterosexuals who resist urges to rape can live exemplary lives and contribute to society.
Celibate homosexuals resist temptation and can live exemplary lives.

---

Heterosexuals who do not engage in deviant behavior are the norm. A person who is celibate cannot not be a homosexual any more than a virgin or person who resists temptation can be a s'lut.

---

oh really? get out more, son!

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

---

And we can pray that behavior away.

Lulz

---

Does praying not help people control their desires-impulses-feelings?

Have you never watched a podcast or interview with a man who was formerly a sexually active homosexual that has given that up?

Are these guys just lying? Are they making it up?

Is praying useless?

---

pretty much. otherwise, you wouldn't have all these preaches men doing bat **** stuff.

Redbrickbear said:

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The human anus is not designed for sexual activity. I hope we can agree on that much at least.

---

There are lots of heterosexual women that would disagree with you.

Osodecentx said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

I don't remember any poster saying it is an acceptable lifestyle. I have said there are people who have same sex attractions and who struggle with temptation.
There are people who are heterosexual who struggle with temptation (e.g. adultery or serial fornication).

Both groups have struggles with temptation

---

I am advocating that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle, even from a Christian worldview.

It is unfair to compare a straight person's struggle with adultery to a gay person's same-sex attraction. The straight person has the legal freedom to love and marry someone, and yet chooses to pursue a relationship outside of this marriage. Beyond spiritual implications, this action directly hurts their spouse.

What is the solution for a gay person who "struggles" with same-sex attraction? To be celibate the rest of their lives? Celibacy is something that one should choose themselves if they feel led and called to, so that they can focus on other aspects of their lives. However, forcing someone to be celibate seems cruel in my opinion.

---

I disagree. To say homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle from a Christian worldview would require ignoring many passages of scripture. That lifestyle is not God's best for you. The design is one man and one woman, but original sin ensued and lots of things God's plan changed for the worse.

---

Would love to continue this conversation if you are interested. Fully agree that the vast majority of animals partake in heterosexual activities, and regardless if you believe in a divine creator, or natural evolutionary processes - we can agree that the most natural sexual state given our anatomy is heterosexuality.

I would like to push back some though that scripture is clear on if homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle or not. Here is a high level why, any happy to further discuss any specific verses you find convincing:
1. Old Testament: The Old Testament is quiet on the topic, except some may point to Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis (19 or 20 I believe). In the story, the men of Sodom demand that Lot turn over his male guests so that they can "know" them, which is a euphemism for sexual assault. The story's focus is on the sin of in-hospitality and the extreme nature of the Sodomites' behavior.

2. New Testament Jesus: Jesus is silent on the topic as well, but some point to his teachings in Matthew 19 and try to interpolate the meaning. In this passage, Jesus is specifically responding to a question about divorce between a man and a woman, emphasizing the importance of the commitment between the two in marriage.

Divorce between same-sex couples was not a thing in 1st Century Jewish/Christian cultures, as same-sex marriages were not even viewed culturally as a concept. Jesus using the creation narrative, something his audience is likely very familiar with, to help answer the question on divorce is unsurprising. If one's takeaway from this chapter includes that marriage is solely between a man and a woman (and otherwise is a sin), I think it misses the point Jesus was trying to make.

3. New Testament Paul: The most commonly used Pauline writing I have seen to denounce homosexuality is Romans 1. The Greek word used in Romans 1:26-27 to describe same-sex relations is "arsenokoites," which is a compound word that combines the words for "male" and "bed." However, it is unclear what specific meaning this word had at the time Paul wrote his letter to the Romans. Some scholars believe that Paul may have coined the term, and its meaning has been debated ever since. In the context of the time, homosexuality was often associated with pagan religious practices that were considered morally objectionable. Therefore, Paul was perhaps not condemning all arsenokoites, but rather the specific practices that were associated with pagan worship. I believe it would be intellectually dishonest to conclude that we know what Paul meant here.

Summary: Since the bible is not clear on this topic (whether it's granted or a sin), I prefer not to take away people's freedoms due to the lack of explicit divine permission; rather, I would like to focus on promoting understanding and inclusivity.

My goal here is not to convince the conservative evangelical board-members that being gay is not a sin - rather, that it is a difficult and grey area when approaching scripture. Especially, when the core themes of Jesus' teachings are love, compassion, and forgiveness.

Hopefully this makes sense - looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

But, but, but...the King James says...

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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BaylorJacket said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

I don't remember any poster saying it is an acceptable lifestyle. I have said there are people who have same sex attractions and who struggle with temptation.
There are people who are heterosexual who struggle with temptation (e.g. adultery or serial fornication).

Both groups have struggles with temptation

---

I am advocating that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle, even from a Christian worldview.

---

Then you are in complete darkness, and you are doing the work of Satan. I'm just gonna be clear and direct, this is the truth.

---

If you truly believe I am doing the work of Satan, just block me lol. Hopefully that way Satan won't be able to tempt you through my posts.

Chamberman said:

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But, but, but...the King James says...

---

And the NIV and etc, etc

I'm no bible scholar, but most of those posting here aren't either, but are more likely to parrot back what their preacher told them on Sunday. Regardless, I choose to spend my time following the greatest commandments of loving God with all my heart and mind and loving others as much as I love myself. And less time focused on the behavior of others trying to separate the weeds from the wheat. If I accomplish that, then I believe that God will be pleased with my time on earth.

Chamberman said:

---

I'm no bible scholar, but most of those posting here aren't either, but are more likely to parrot back what their preacher told them on Sunday. Regardless, I choose to spend my time following the greatest commandments of loving God with all my heart and mind and loving others as much as I love myself. And less time focused on the behavior of others trying to separate the weeds from the wheat. If I accomplish that, then I believe that God will be pleased with my time on earth.

---

Blessed are the neutral, for theirs is ....

BaylorJacket said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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BaylorJacket said:

---

Osodecentx said:

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I don't remember any poster saying it is an acceptable lifestyle. I have said there are people who have same sex attractions and who struggle with temptation.
There are people who are heterosexual who struggle with temptation (e.g. adultery or serial fornication).

Both groups have struggles with temptation

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I am advocating that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle, even from a Christian worldview.

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Then you are in complete darkness, and you are doing the work of Satan. I'm just gonna be clear and direct, this is the truth.

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If you truly believe I am doing the work of Satan, just block me lol. Hopefully that way Satan won't be able to tempt you through my posts.

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It wasn't for me. It was for you.

J.R. said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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quash said:

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He Hate Me said:

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No one is a homosexual. There are people who engage in homosexual conduct. It is not an immutable characteristic as some would like you to believe.

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And we can pray that behavior away.

Lulz

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Does praying not help people control their desires-impulses-feelings?

Have you never watched a podcast or interview with a man who was formerly a sexually active homosexual that has given that up?

Are these guys just lying? Are they making it up?

Is praying useless?

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pretty much. otherwise, you wouldn't have all these preaches men doing bat **** stuff.

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Who says they are even praying. Or even actually religious.

Predators (and bad actors) are going to be attracted to positions were they have access to children, money, status, etc.

No matter if that is in Churches, Synagogues, Governments, Universities or anywhere else.

Chamberman said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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The human anus is not designed for sexual activity. I hope we can agree on that much at least.

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There are lots of heterosexual women that would disagree with you.

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pics or gtfo.

Chamberman said:

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But, but, but...the King James says...

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KJV is the only way God intended the bible to be read:
"Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings" - (Isaiah 60:16)

BaylorJacket said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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1. Where is the proof that it is genetic or an innate orientation? If you have it...please post the info. Its an interesting topic to discuss.

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Here is a small selection of scientific papers on the topic. It would be an oversimplification and incorrect of me to say "this gene when flipped makes you gay", but these studies show that one's sexual orientation is formed by one's biology in additional to one's experiences:

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Another interesting article:

In 1977, just over 10% of Americans thought gayness was something you were born with, according to Gallup. That number has steadily risen over time and is currently somewhere between 42% and 50%, depending on the poll. Throughout the same period, the number of Americans who believe homosexuality is "due to someone's upbringing/environment" fell from just under 60% to 37%.
[These ideas reached critical mass in pop culture, first with Lady Gaga's 2011 Born This Way and one year later with Macklemore's Same Love, the chorus of which has a gay person singing "I can't change even if I tried, even if I wanted to." Videos started circulating on the internet featuring gay people asking straight people "when they chose to be straight." Around the same time, the Human Rights Campaign declared unequivocally that "Being gay is not a choice," and to claim that it is "gives unwarranted credence to roundly disproven practices such as conversion or reparative therapy."

Quote:

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People who challenge the Born This Way narrative are often cast as homophobic, and their thinking is considered backward

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As Jane Ward notes in Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men, what's interesting about many of these claims is how transparent their speakers are with their political motivations. "Such statements," she writes, "infuse biological accounts with an obligatory and nearly coercive force, suggesting that anyone who describes homosexual desire as a choice or social construction is playing into the hands of the enemy."

As Samantha Allen notes at The Daily Beast, the growing public support for gays and lesbians has grown out of proportion with the rise in the number of people who believe homosexuality is fixed at birth;

In spite of these studies, those who push against Born This Way narratives have been heavily criticized by gay activists. "They tell me my own homo-negativity is being manifested in my work," says Grzanka. Similarly, Ward has received her own hate mail for pushing against the ruling LGB narratives, with some gays telling her she's "worse than Ann Coulter,"

"Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors."]

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160627-i-am-gay-but-i-wasnt-born-this-way

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To be clear, I am not arguing that someone is born homosexual, just as they are not born automatically heterosexual. As the journals I posted above suggest, one's genetics absolutely have an influence on one's sexual orientation, but it is not the sole factor. Your upbringing and experiences, especially as a child, have a large influence on your orientation.

The article you posted is also suggesting the same, here is the concluding paragraph:

Quote:

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I don't think I was born gay. I don't think I was born straight. I was born the way all of us are born: as a human being with a seemingly infinite capacity to announce myself, to re-announce myself, to try on new identities like spring raincoats, to play with limiting categories, to challenge them and topple them, to cultivate my tastes and preferences, and, most importantly, to love and to receive love.

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Then why should we not discourage homosexual activity and sexuality....in favor of heterosexuality activity and sexuality?

Since no one is absolutely genetically born homosexual.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Osodecentx said:

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I don't remember any poster saying it is an acceptable lifestyle. I have said there are people who have same sex attractions and who struggle with temptation.
There are people who are heterosexual who struggle with temptation (e.g. adultery or serial fornication).

Both groups have struggles with temptation

---

I am advocating that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle, even from a Christian worldview.

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Then you are in complete darkness, and you are doing the work of Satan. I'm just gonna be clear and direct, this is the truth.

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If you truly believe I am doing the work of Satan, just block me lol. Hopefully that way Satan won't be able to tempt you through my posts.

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It wasn't for me. It was for you.

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Nice

He Hate Me said:

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Chamberman said:

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I'm no bible scholar, but most of those posting here aren't either, but are more likely to parrot back what their preacher told them on Sunday. Regardless, I choose to spend my time following the greatest commandments of loving God with all my heart and mind and loving others as much as I love myself. And less time focused on the behavior of others trying to separate the weeds from the wheat. If I accomplish that, then I believe that God will be pleased with my time on earth.

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Blessed are the neutral, for theirs is ....

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So the parable of the tares only applies to weak Christians? Got it!

Chamberman said:

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I'm no bible scholar, but most of those posting here aren't either, but are more likely to parrot back what their preacher told them on Sunday. Regardless, I choose to spend my time following the greatest commandments of loving God with all my heart and mind and loving others as much as I love myself. And less time focused on the behavior of others trying to separate the weeds from the wheat. If I accomplish that, then I believe that God will be pleased with my time on earth.

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You get that talking point from Reddit?

I have been in Baptist and non-denomination churches since my childhood (I'm in my 30s now) and have probably heard a handful of sermons that even mentioned homosexuality...always tied into sexual fidelity in marriage.

Both as milk toast sermons as you can imagine with lots of talk about loving our fellow Christians and non-Christians. The whole talk basically being "Whatever the world believes we believe marriage and sexuality is best expressed in a loving loyal relationship between a man and a women and hold to that as a principle without hate for anyone else."

Its a huge canard that Preachers are spending their time bashing gays and abortionists from the pulpit 24-7