FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Anytime anyone labels a person as "The Only One who will do xxx"...I immediately take pause and become weary of said person.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

You really think if we give him Ukraine, his interpretation of that is no more attacks anywhere?

Your argument assumes Putin is a reasonable actor. He's not. He's an evil nutcase whose lifelong dream (and that of his closest advisors) has been to reconstitute the old empire.

---

I don't think we should give him all of Ukraine. We should broker a peace deal, especially with damn near half a million dead Ukrainians. Then we get NATO together and make it impossible for them to even think about attacking anyone else.

I don't understand how ya'll want to hurt Russia so badly...but you don't want direct war with them. This proxy war isn't going to diminish them to the extent they back off for decades if you believe they would attack other countries. You need a hot war for that. They're purposely dragging this out.

This has gone on for far too long. Its going to continue for several years at this pace. I've already been told this wouldn't take as long as it already has, nor cost as much as it already has. I keep hearing "the end is near, Russia is weak"...then 6 months later its still ongoing.

Is it wrong of me to want humanity to stop killing each other? Is it wrong of me not to want to push our country further into extreme debt? This is where I'm coming from, but ya'll keep telling me I'm a Putin bootlicker.

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Ukraine can defend. If they were properly armed like Poland is doing, they would not have had this problem. They had half ass Soviet equipment and an antiquated battle doctrine. That is the problem. If they were armed properly and trained with NATO this would not be the slog-fest it is. Shame, Doves have cost many a life, again.

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

You really think if we give him Ukraine, his interpretation of that is no more attacks anywhere?

Your argument assumes Putin is a reasonable actor. He's not. He's an evil nutcase whose lifelong dream (and that of his closest advisors) has been to reconstitute the old empire.

---

I don't think we should give him all of Ukraine. We should broker a peace deal, especially with damn near half a million dead Ukrainians. Then we get NATO together and make it impossible for them to even think about attacking anyone else.

I don't understand how ya'll want to hurt Russia so badly...but you don't want direct war with them. This proxy war isn't going to diminish them to the extent they back off for decades if you believe they would attack other countries. You need a hot war for that. They're purposely dragging this out.

This has gone on for far too long. Its going to continue for several years at this pace. I've already been told this wouldn't take as long as it already has, nor cost as much as it already has. I keep hearing "the end is near, Russia is weak"...then 6 months later its still ongoing.

Is it wrong of me to want humanity to stop killing each other? Is it wrong of me not to want to push our country further into extreme debt? This is where I'm coming from, but ya'll keep telling me I'm a Putin bootlicker.

---

Peace deals with Russia aren't worth the paper the signatures are on. Ukraine knows this better than most.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

Putin can believe that Russia owns Mars....does not mean he can get it.

This idea that the Russian army is so incompetent that is can not take land right on its border and filled with ethnic Russians (eastern Ukraine)....yet somehow the Russians are going to march into Poland, the Baltics, and Central Europe is somewhere between hilarious fan-fiction and insanity.

Russia does not have the money, man power, equipment, or competency to do that.

If if they magically did....that is why we have NATO.

If a single Russian tank crosses the border with Estonia then a massive 30+ nation alliance will declare war on Russia and wipe out the Russian Federation.

That NATO alliance also has a population close to 1 Billion people and some of the largest military and biggest economic powers on earth inside of it (USA, Canada, Germany, France, UK, Italy, Netherlands, etc)

While Russia has 144 million people and a economy more on the level of Mexico.

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

---

Its almost like you are making the argument that Russia is very interesting in protecting its traditional sphere of influence and giving us examples of how they are staying inside of that traditional regional sphere. (Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan)

I mean you use Chechnya as an example....My God man....Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation! That is like criticizing the UK for using troops in Belfast.

What you have not proved is that Russia is interested in expanding its sphere of influence or in world domination.

While leaving out why the USA had troops in 100+ countries and is now waging a proxy war on Russia's borders in Ukraine.

Get back to me when Russia has troops in Canada or is funding Mexico in a war against us.

Right now they look like a declining regional power desperately trying to hang on to their borderlands....while we look like a massive military-economic-cultural Hegemon that is not happy with anything less than surrounding the Russian state with hostile forces.

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

You really think if we give him Ukraine, his interpretation of that is no more attacks anywhere?

Your argument assumes Putin is a reasonable actor. He's not. He's an evil nutcase whose lifelong dream (and that of his closest advisors) has been to reconstitute the old empire.

---

Correct.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

---

Its almost like you are making the argument that Russia is very interesting in protecting its traditional sphere of influence and giving us examples of how they are staying inside of that traditional regional sphere. (Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan)

I mean you use Chechnya as an example....My God man....Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation! That is like criticizing the UK for using troops in Belfast.

What you have not proved is that Russia is interested in expanding its sphere of influence or in world domination.

While leaving out why the USA had troops in 100+ countries and is now waging a proxy war on Russia's borders in Ukraine.

Get back to me when Russia has troops in Canada or is funding Mexico in a war against us.

Right now they look like a declining regional power desperately trying to hang on to their borderlands....while we look like a massive military-economic-cultural Hegemon that is not happy with anything less than surrounding the Russian state with hostile forces.

---

Well, neither of us can "prove" what Putin will do. My point is that he's shown he's willing to invade, attack, and try to take over other countries and territories. And I tend to believe what leaders like Putin say regarding their world views and intentions. He and his cronies have made it clear they want to reconstitute the old empire.

And I limited my response to actual invasions. Russia tries to have every bit as much international influence as we do. They just are not as good at it. We fight Russia in some kind of proxy battle every day all over the world - military, economic, political, strategic. And Russia' closest friends are our biggest enemies.

I agree they are a declining power. I also believe they know it to, and that is Putin at his most dangerous.

"Traditional regional sphere," in my view, is just an excuse to defend Russia. And I'd obviously strongly oppose us invading and taking over Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela, or Bolivia.

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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Bear8084 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

---

Its almost like you are making the argument that Russia is very interesting in protecting its traditional sphere of influence and giving us examples of how they are staying inside of that traditional regional sphere. (Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan)

I mean you use Chechnya as an example....My God man....Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation! That is like criticizing the UK for using troops in Belfast.

What you have not proved is that Russia is interested in expanding its sphere of influence or in world domination.

While leaving out why the USA had troops in 100+ countries and is now waging a proxy war on Russia's borders in Ukraine.

Get back to me when Russia has troops in Canada or is funding Mexico in a war against us.

Right now they look like a declining regional power desperately trying to hang on to their borderlands....while we look like a massive military-economic-cultural Hegemon that is not happy with anything less than surrounding the Russian state with hostile forces.

---

Well, neither of us can "prove" what Putin will do. My point is that he's shown he's willing to invade, attack, and try to take over other countries and territories. And I tend to believe what leaders like Putin say regarding their world views and intentions. He and his cronies have made it clear they want to reconstitute the old empire.

And I limited my response to actual invasions. Russia tries to have every bit as much international influence as we do. They just are not as good at it. We fight Russia in some kind of proxy battle every day all over the world - military, economic, political, strategic. And Russia' closest friends are our biggest enemies.

I agree they are a declining power. I also believe they know it to, and that is Putin at his most dangerous.

"Traditional regional sphere," in my view, is just an excuse to defend Russia. And I'd obviously strongly oppose us invading and taking over Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela, or Bolivia.

---

The USA won the Cold War so Washington does not have to use hard power invasions to keep local countries in line and on its team. Mexico and Canada have no where else to turn than the American empire.

But of course Washington does invade countries outside its traditional sphere all the time (Iraq, Afghanistan, ect)

Russia is a remnant state of the old USSR empire and it is desperately trying to keep a near abroad of allied states surround its borders.

Every ruling class in Moscow would and will act the same regardless of who they are (Czars, Bolsheviks, Puntinists, etc)

The real question is not why is Moscow using force to keep Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan in its orbit…. the question is why does Washington care? These poor ex-Soviet States mean nothing to us, offer us little, and can't be effectively defend from such a far distance away.

Washington power elites will eventually become bored with the Donbas and turn their attention to other areas….Moscow never will.

I don't have any particular fondness for Russia but Ukraine and its supporters are just so damn insufferable. pic.twitter.com/4rJ4zSmDH5

— 🏛 Aristophanes 🏛 (@Aristos_Revenge) September 1, 2023

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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Bear8084 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

Putin can believe that Russia owns Mars....does not mean he can get it.

This idea that the Russian army is so incompetent that is can not take land right on its border and filled with ethnic Russians (eastern Ukraine)....yet somehow the Russians are going to march into Poland, the Baltics, and Central Europe is somewhere between hilarious fan-fiction and insanity.

Russia does not have the money, man power, equipment, or competency to do that.

If if they magically did....that is why we have NATO.

If a single Russian tank crosses the border with Estonia then a massive 30+ nation alliance will declare war on Russia and wipe out the Russian Federation.

That NATO alliance also has a population close to 1 Billion people and some of the largest military and biggest economic powers on earth inside of it (USA, Canada, Germany, France, UK, Italy, Netherlands, etc)

While Russia has 144 million people and a economy more on the level of Mexico.

---

Yeah, so give him Ukraine. That makes sense.

As for our border, Ukraine has nothing to do with the border. The border is exactly how Biden wants it. You thinb that money will go to the border? No way, it will go to China for EV batteries. I would rather use it for Ukraine, they will use it.

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

Putin can believe that Russia owns Mars....does not mean he can get it.

This idea that the Russian army is so incompetent that is can not take land right on its border and filled with ethnic Russians (eastern Ukraine)....yet somehow the Russians are going to march into Poland, the Baltics, and Central Europe is somewhere between hilarious fan-fiction and insanity.

Russia does not have the money, man power, equipment, or competency to do that.

If if they magically did....that is why we have NATO.

If a single Russian tank crosses the border with Estonia then a massive 30+ nation alliance will declare war on Russia and wipe out the Russian Federation.

That NATO alliance also has a population close to 1 Billion people and some of the largest military and biggest economic powers on earth inside of it (USA, Canada, Germany, France, UK, Italy, Netherlands, etc)

While Russia has 144 million people and a economy more on the level of Mexico.

---

Yeah, so give him Ukraine. That makes sense.

As for our border, Ukraine has nothing to do with the border. The border is exactly how Biden wants it. You thinb that money will go to the border? No way, it will go to China for EV batteries. I would rather use it for Ukraine, they will use it.

---

My Baylor brother….Ukraine is not ours to give away or keep.

It's a barley functioning corrupt state on the Eastern European borderlands. One that apparently can't stay on good terms with its larger Slavic neighbor.

American tax payers should not be on the hook to fund some war far away and that is not of vital interest to the American people.

Washington elites will get bored with this conflict eventually…just like they got bored playing in the bloody Arab-Afghan stand traps in Iraq/Afghanistan…Moscow elites will not get bored.

Amazing: Senate Democrats are blocking disaster aid from the US Government for American citizens in dire need unless it also includes the billions more for the war in Ukraine that the Biden WH wants.

Such a perfect microcosm of this party. https://t.co/0yc83tOmh7

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) September 1, 2023

As expected, WaPo provides zero examples of disinformation and doesn’t define the term. And the EU’s study was conducted by Reset, which is overseen by Western intel adjacent tech oligarch Pierre Omidyar, and designed to legitimize hard censorship. https://t.co/vwM15it5tZ

— Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) September 2, 2023

Sam Lowry said:

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bear2be2 said:

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whiterock said:

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quash said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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How many of you guys would support a US hot war with Russia?

---

No one wants war with Russia. NATO has appeased Russia for decades trying to avoid it. Unfortunately, Russia has proven both in Crimea and the Donbas that appeasement is wholly infective as a war deterrent.

---

We're going to be in a hot war with Russia. Its going to happen.

Do you not understand how insane DC is?

---

That will be Russia's decision. The only way we end up in a war with Russia is they attack a member of NATO. And ceding Ukraine to Russia only makes that more likely.

---

This is why. Tucker is spot on here:

TUCKER: “There will be a hot war between the United States and Russia within the next year”

pic.twitter.com/AGv6Iifg5U

— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) August 30, 2023

---

Oh, well I take it all back if Tucker Carlson is your source...

---

Tell me why you think he's wrong.

His logic is sound.

---

His logic is horrible. It's premised on a wag the tail proposition without evidence.

His logic is, ironically, dead on about lies being caught out. His were. And that's why he has limited credibility.
See the Britney post above, that is accurate.

---

notably, he's making an entirely different argument than Sam/Red. They are insisting that Russia is showing enormous patience in the face of incredible provocation, and that if we don't stop supporting Ukraine, Russia will have no choice but to attack and defeat us. Tucker is making the case that the Biden admin will start a war to galvanize public support around them to win the 2024 election.

Problem with both scenarios is that Russia cannot defeat Ukraine....it cannot recruit (shanghai), train, equip, transport the troops needed to do so. It cannot manufacture the tanks, artillery pieces, aircraft needed to do so. No chance on earth they would want to start a conflict with Nato. Doomsville for them.

---

Tucker's premise has already been tested and failed. If we were itching to start a war with Russia, we'd have used the Russian missile explosion in Poland last year as our excuse. We didn't because no one wants war with Russia.

---

That was a Ukrainian missile. Zelensky tried to claim otherwise, in a rather transparent attempt to escalate NATO involvement.

---

That actually supports B2's point = NATO could have used it as a pretext if they wanted to. But they didn't. Because they don't.

Sam Lowry said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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The certain way to a hot war is that the Ukrainians start winning. Fortunately the chances of that are roughly zero. But those who cheer for Ukraine should be aware that's what they're supporting. What's much more likely is that Biden or some other idiot makes a mistake and things get out of control. Evidently that's a risk that the Russophobes are either oblivious to or are willing to accept.

---

If Russia's a big enough bltch to get their ass kicked by Ukraine, and then start a hot war with NATO...then they absolutely deserve to be eviscerated from the face of the earth.

---

Neither of those things will happen. What could happen in theory is that Russia resorts to tactical nukes in Ukraine and NATO feels compelled to retaliate. But again, Russia would actually have to be in danger of losing, so we're talking parallel universes here.

---

Russian can wipe Ukraine off the face of the earth and NATO has no treaty obligation to do anything about it.

Just like China can wipe Mongolia off the map and the United States has no treaty obligation to interfere.

Luckily the people who rule in Moscow and Beijing are not insane...what they want is for Ukraine and Mongolia to be inside their respective economic-cultural-military spheres of influence.

Just like we want and demand that Canada and Mexico be in ours.....

---

When we invade Canada or Mexico to force them into our "sphere of influence," a hell of a euphemism for annexation, we can talk about the similarities here. Until then, this is not just a false equivalency, it's actively spreading Russian propaganda.

The facts here are simple and indisputable. There is a war in Ukraine currently for one reason and one reason only. Russia invaded. And they did so to the shock of all those who are now defending them.

This is quite literally a geopolitical case of "Don't start no ****, won't be no *****"

---

I was in no way shocked. I would have been, if the US had allowed Ukraine to chart its own course and Putin still felt the need to invade.

---

This is bull****, Sam. And I believe you're too intelligent and well-read not to know that. It's not the West's fault that most formerly authoritarian/colonized lands choose self-rule once they're given a taste of freedom/democracy.

Blaming the US for the Ukrainians' desire to be free of Russia is absurd. It takes all agency away from a population that has quite literally fought very hard to every advancement of freedom it has gotten in the past 35-40 years.

The Ukrainians didn't need to be convinced by the West that they didn't want to be ruled by Russia or a Russian puppet government. They learned that the hard way as part of the Soviet Union, and they earned/value their freedom every bit as much as the United States or any Western European nation.

---

I believe you're also intelligent and well-read, but you're not listening to what Russia or even large parts of Ukraine are saying. Perhaps more important, you're not looking at what the US has done and continues to do. No one in possession of the facts could imagine that we've left Ukraine with any meaningful agency.

---

They could run up the white flag, but they don't. Because +90% of Ukrainians want ALL their territory back.

Note the projection here: it is Sam who removes all meaningful agency from Ukrainians.

Doc Holliday said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

I like Tucker a lot and listen to his work. He's pretty spectacularly wrong on nearly all of his Ukraine War comments. They will be a blight on an otherwise enviable legacy.

Nobody is right all the time. We have to remember not to judge people on their worst day. Tucker is by any measure an asset to the movement, and he's definitely got the right targets in his sight, so no matter how wrong he might be on this issue, so I'll give him a pass. It's important we remember to do that from time to time. We are, after all, the big tent party. If we don't have this kind of dissent going on, it would be a sign of a far worse problem. Try joining the Democrat party and speaking out like this against planks of the Democrat platform and see how that turns out for you......

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

No, just the defacto restoration of the Warsaw Pact and use of the power accrued to Russia as a springboard to oppose American and European interests all over the world.

It is amazing how blind war critics are to the that dynamic. A stronger Russia increases threats to US interests around the world. It would be one thing if Russia became stronger with internal reforms and modernization that transformed is political and economic system into a genuine powerhouse. The COULD do that, you know. But, instead, they are doing it the old way, playing a 17th century game of RISK, using 10th century tactics and 20th century technology. Somehow, we are supposed to think this does not affect us in the remotest possible way.

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

You really think if we give him Ukraine, his interpretation of that is no more attacks anywhere?

Your argument assumes Putin is a reasonable actor. He's not. He's an evil nutcase whose lifelong dream (and that of his closest advisors) has been to reconstitute the old empire.

---

it's even more than that. Russia's traditional willingness to pick knife fights in mud pits regardless of his odds of victory has a chilling effect on everyone in theater. No former Warsaw Pact nation would look eagerly at having to play the game Ukraine is playing right now. Most do not have the strategic depth or manpower or......etc....to stand as long as Ukraine has. Sure, they can count on NATO help (maybe....) but who would want to WIN an ordeal like Ukraine is experiencing right now? It's not unreasonable for some to think it be better to engage, appease, forestall, etc..... That is EXACTLY the perspective Hungary has taken. And in western democracies where governments come & go peacefully, it is a certainty that another country (or three) will elected party with a similar viewpoint. The only question is when.

The best way to prepare for all that is deal with the problem TODAY..... to bleed Russia dry on the fields of Ukraine so that it will taken them a half-century to rebuild. Like it or not, that's what we are doing. And its is fitting and proper to do so. It's the way the Game of Thrones has been and will be always played. You don't get a choice on whether or not to play. You better play your game, or you WILL play someone else's.

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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Bear8084 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

---

Its almost like you are making the argument that Russia is very interesting in protecting its traditional sphere of influence and giving us examples of how they are staying inside of that traditional regional sphere. (Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan)

I mean you use Chechnya as an example....My God man....Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation! That is like criticizing the UK for using troops in Belfast.

What you have not proved is that Russia is interested in expanding its sphere of influence or in world domination.

While leaving out why the USA had troops in 100+ countries and is now waging a proxy war on Russia's borders in Ukraine.

Get back to me when Russia has troops in Canada or is funding Mexico in a war against us.

Right now they look like a declining regional power desperately trying to hang on to their borderlands....while we look like a massive military-economic-cultural Hegemon that is not happy with anything less than surrounding the Russian state with hostile forces.

---

Well, there is their invasion of Ukraine.....

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

---

Its almost like you are making the argument that Russia is very interesting in protecting its traditional sphere of influence and giving us examples of how they are staying inside of that traditional regional sphere. (Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan)

I mean you use Chechnya as an example....My God man....Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation! That is like criticizing the UK for using troops in Belfast.

What you have not proved is that Russia is interested in expanding its sphere of influence or in world domination.

While leaving out why the USA had troops in 100+ countries and is now waging a proxy war on Russia's borders in Ukraine.

Get back to me when Russia has troops in Canada or is funding Mexico in a war against us.

Right now they look like a declining regional power desperately trying to hang on to their borderlands....while we look like a massive military-economic-cultural Hegemon that is not happy with anything less than surrounding the Russian state with hostile forces.

---

Well, neither of us can "prove" what Putin will do. My point is that he's shown he's willing to invade, attack, and try to take over other countries and territories. And I tend to believe what leaders like Putin say regarding their world views and intentions. He and his cronies have made it clear they want to reconstitute the old empire.

And I limited my response to actual invasions. Russia tries to have every bit as much international influence as we do. They just are not as good at it. We fight Russia in some kind of proxy battle every day all over the world - military, economic, political, strategic. And Russia' closest friends are our biggest enemies.

I agree they are a declining power. I also believe they know it to, and that is Putin at his most dangerous.

"Traditional regional sphere," in my view, is just an excuse to defend Russia. And I'd obviously strongly oppose us invading and taking over Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela, or Bolivia.

---

The USA won the Cold War so Washington does not have to use hard power invasions to keep local countries in line and on its team. Mexico and Canada have no where else to turn than the American empire.

But of course Washington does invade countries outside its traditional sphere all the time (Iraq, Afghanistan, ect)

Russia is a remnant state of the old USSR empire and it is desperately trying to keep a near abroad of allied states surround its borders.

Every ruling class in Moscow would and will act the same regardless of who they are (Czars, Bolsheviks, Puntinists, etc)

The real question is not why is Moscow using force to keep Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan in its orbit…. the question is why does Washington care? These poor ex-Soviet States mean nothing to us, offer us little, and can't be effectively defend from such a far distance away.

Washington power elites will eventually become bored with the Donbas and turn their attention to other areas….Moscow never will.

---

Listen to what you are saying. They lost their European near abroad at the end of the Cold War. Now they want it back. (Be sure to tell Sam that). None of the "near abroad" save Belarus wants any part of that. All of their near abroad except Belarus and Ukraine and Moldova are actually in NATO because they want no part of being in the Russian sphere of influence. And that's why we care. Russian efforts to restore the former Warsaw Pact is zero sum with Nato membership, and thus remains the greatest risk of direct conflict between Russia and Nato.

Real life example: My daughter was C/OPS at Spandahlem where it was her job to keep CAP aircraft in the air 24/7 to include aerial-refueling operations, a 600% jump in activity metrics, sustained 24/7. She's now at the C&GS school in AL, penciled for Aviano, to command a logistics unit dedicated to forward deployments in Eastern Europe. Her job is to be ready to go to war against Russia in Eastern Europe, so if there is conflict between Russia and NATO, she will be "innit." What is the best thing that could happen, today, to keep her out of that conflict? Ukrainian victory. Total expulsion of Russian forces from Ukraine. The further away are the Russian air bases, the further away is the threat is to my daughter. Same for Russian warcraft and ordnance of all types. The more that are destroyed in Ukraine, the fewer that can be brought to bear against my daughter.

It literally is that simple. Just amazing that war opponents refuse to see, to even address the obvious strategic dumbassery of the argument that we have no interest in the outcome of the war in Ukraine. The budget argument is valid. The readiness argument is valid. But the "no interest" argument above is beyond silly. I mean, the Ukraine War is the first thing in my adult life that NATO has ever agreed upon nearly unanimously. How could that be if support for Ukraine was nothing but US hornswoggling everyone to feed the military industrial complex? Hornswoggling of such a caliber as to jolt Sweden and Finland, the international avatars of studious neutrality, into joining NATO at warp speed in response to overwhelming public support?

Could it be that what we're see in policy toward Ukraine is a rare evidence of a case so strong that it actually has effectively unanimous consent of nations who've rarely agreed on anything, to include paying their dues to the organization they now are following?

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

---

Its almost like you are making the argument that Russia is very interesting in protecting its traditional sphere of influence and giving us examples of how they are staying inside of that traditional regional sphere. (Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan)

I mean you use Chechnya as an example....My God man....Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation! That is like criticizing the UK for using troops in Belfast.

What you have not proved is that Russia is interested in expanding its sphere of influence or in world domination.

While leaving out why the USA had troops in 100+ countries and is now waging a proxy war on Russia's borders in Ukraine.

Get back to me when Russia has troops in Canada or is funding Mexico in a war against us.

Right now they look like a declining regional power desperately trying to hang on to their borderlands....while we look like a massive military-economic-cultural Hegemon that is not happy with anything less than surrounding the Russian state with hostile forces.

---

Well, there is their invasion of Ukraine.....

---

There have been Russian troops in the lands of Ukraine since the time of the old Czardom of Russia during the great Cossack uprisings against the Poles in the 1600s.

It's well within their traditional sphere of influence.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising#:~:text=The%20Khmelnytsky%20Uprising%2C%20also%20known,a%20Cossack%20Hetmanate%20in%20Ukraine.

Let's not act like for 1 second like Moscow has not had serious strategic interests in the Ukraine for at least 400 years.

They have been involved in the Ukraine longer than the United States has even existed.

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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whiterock said:

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quash said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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How many of you guys would support a US hot war with Russia?

---

No one wants war with Russia. NATO has appeased Russia for decades trying to avoid it. Unfortunately, Russia has proven both in Crimea and the Donbas that appeasement is wholly infective as a war deterrent.

---

We're going to be in a hot war with Russia. Its going to happen.

Do you not understand how insane DC is?

---

That will be Russia's decision. The only way we end up in a war with Russia is they attack a member of NATO. And ceding Ukraine to Russia only makes that more likely.

---

This is why. Tucker is spot on here:

TUCKER: “There will be a hot war between the United States and Russia within the next year”

pic.twitter.com/AGv6Iifg5U

— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) August 30, 2023

---

Oh, well I take it all back if Tucker Carlson is your source...

---

Tell me why you think he's wrong.

His logic is sound.

---

His logic is horrible. It's premised on a wag the tail proposition without evidence.

His logic is, ironically, dead on about lies being caught out. His were. And that's why he has limited credibility.
See the Britney post above, that is accurate.

---

notably, he's making an entirely different argument than Sam/Red. They are insisting that Russia is showing enormous patience in the face of incredible provocation, and that if we don't stop supporting Ukraine, Russia will have no choice but to attack and defeat us. Tucker is making the case that the Biden admin will start a war to galvanize public support around them to win the 2024 election.

Problem with both scenarios is that Russia cannot defeat Ukraine....it cannot recruit (shanghai), train, equip, transport the troops needed to do so. It cannot manufacture the tanks, artillery pieces, aircraft needed to do so. No chance on earth they would want to start a conflict with Nato. Doomsville for them.

---

Tucker's premise has already been tested and failed. If we were itching to start a war with Russia, we'd have used the Russian missile explosion in Poland last year as our excuse. We didn't because no one wants war with Russia.

---

Or the Black Sea... The drone issues. You are right, there have been numerous points that if we were looking would have been enough to shoot.

---

all Nato has to do to get into the war is start escorting international shipping thru the Black Sea. First time Russia fires at a cargo ship, it's game on. But we haven't done that. Because we are not looking to start a war.

It's Russia who went looking to start a war. So they did. Thereby demonstrating FAFO.

---

Yup. We may disagree on Trump. But we are lock step on Foreign Policy!

I wish I had the edit skills to update this cartoon to "President Washington, Russia is causing trouble in the Donbas & Kazakhstan again"

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

step 1: Washington elites work with liberal NGO's and neo-Nazi Militia groups inside Ukraine to stage a violent coup and oust the previous pro-Moscow government.

Step 2: get Ukraine into a bloody conflict with Russia.

Step 3: import in massive numbers of cheap African pseudo-slaves

Step 4: profit?

---

LOL no.

---

Ruskies out! Muslims in!







And honestly….planned or not…the leadership in Kyiv does not have much choice but to import in 3rd world labor from Africa and the MENA region.

Since most real Ukrainians are not going to come home from the EU ever…

---

Tucker Carlson calls out Washington Elites & the media for lying to the American people about the war in Ukraine.

Ever wonder why the ruling party despises Tucker & roots for his failure?

Because he is the only member of the “media” willing to call them out

“Everybody believes… pic.twitter.com/zHuXzNCrU1

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) September 1, 2023

---

Think about that. You say it to show that Ukraine is in trouble. I see is that Ukrainians want to be in the EU, period. Zelensky is reading his people correctly, they believe they are more European than Russian and that their future is in the West. Yet, because Putin doesn't like it, he is allowed to invade. How the world can let Putin do this is remarkable.

Poland has the right idea, they are arming to the teeth, creating Fortress Poland. They are adopting NATO tactics and a combined arms approach. Poland sees what is happening and the reaction of the appeasers. I applaud their vision, Putin understands one thing. They know they are next.

The next step with psychopaths like Putin is that they were scared to stop me in Ukraine, will they really go to war over Latvia or Poland?

---

Why are you convinced Russia would go after other countries instead of just Ukraine? They've believed it's their territory for quite some time.

It's downright evil for them to do this, but Putin isn't Dr. Evil planning world domination.

---

Putin believes all the territory up to Berlin after WW2 is Russian territory won by the Russian Army!

They will go after the Baltics, Poland and the other former Warsaw Pact Nations because that is their nature. The fact that the now believe that Ukraine is theirs, after agreeing to their own sovereignty shows it. They agreed less than 50 years ago and here we are.

---

With what military power?!

It is illogical to believe Ukraine can defend and kick Russia's teeth in,...but Russia is somehow a huge threat to those countries THat makes your premise complete Bull sh it, I'm sorry, it makes absolutely no f uc king sense.

---

Respectfully . . . the argument that Russia's failure (so far) in Ukraine means he is not a threat to attack others is the worst possible argument. He has attacked is attacking others! He already has proven he's willing to do. Ukraine (3 times), Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova. And he sent troops to Kazakhstan and elsewhere.

---

Its almost like you are making the argument that Russia is very interesting in protecting its traditional sphere of influence and giving us examples of how they are staying inside of that traditional regional sphere. (Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan)

I mean you use Chechnya as an example....My God man....Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation! That is like criticizing the UK for using troops in Belfast.

What you have not proved is that Russia is interested in expanding its sphere of influence or in world domination.

While leaving out why the USA had troops in 100+ countries and is now waging a proxy war on Russia's borders in Ukraine.

Get back to me when Russia has troops in Canada or is funding Mexico in a war against us.

Right now they look like a declining regional power desperately trying to hang on to their borderlands....while we look like a massive military-economic-cultural Hegemon that is not happy with anything less than surrounding the Russian state with hostile forces.

---

Well, neither of us can "prove" what Putin will do. My point is that he's shown he's willing to invade, attack, and try to take over other countries and territories. And I tend to believe what leaders like Putin say regarding their world views and intentions. He and his cronies have made it clear they want to reconstitute the old empire.

And I limited my response to actual invasions. Russia tries to have every bit as much international influence as we do. They just are not as good at it. We fight Russia in some kind of proxy battle every day all over the world - military, economic, political, strategic. And Russia' closest friends are our biggest enemies.

I agree they are a declining power. I also believe they know it to, and that is Putin at his most dangerous.

"Traditional regional sphere," in my view, is just an excuse to defend Russia. And I'd obviously strongly oppose us invading and taking over Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela, or Bolivia.

---

The USA won the Cold War so Washington does not have to use hard power invasions to keep local countries in line and on its team. Mexico and Canada have no where else to turn than the American empire.

But of course Washington does invade countries outside its traditional sphere all the time (Iraq, Afghanistan, ect)

Russia is a remnant state of the old USSR empire and it is desperately trying to keep a near abroad of allied states surround its borders.

Every ruling class in Moscow would and will act the same regardless of who they are (Czars, Bolsheviks, Puntinists, etc)

The real question is not why is Moscow using force to keep Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan in its orbit…. the question is why does Washington care? These poor ex-Soviet States mean nothing to us, offer us little, and can't be effectively defend from such a far distance away.

Washington power elites will eventually become bored with the Donbas and turn their attention to other areas….Moscow never will.

---

Listen to what you are saying. They lost their European near abroad at the end of the Cold War. Now they want it back. (Be sure to tell Sam that). None of the "near abroad" save Belarus wants any part of that. All of their near abroad except Belarus and Ukraine and Moldova are actually in NATO because they want no part of being in the Russian sphere of influence. And that's why we care. Russian efforts to restore the former Warsaw Pact is zero sum with Nato membership, and thus remains the greatest risk of direct conflict between Russia and Nato.

Real life example: My daughter was C/OPS at Spandahlem where it was her job to keep CAP aircraft in the air 24/7 to include aerial-refueling operations, a 600% jump in activity metrics, sustained 24/7. She's now at the C&GS school in AL, penciled for Aviano, to command a logistics unit dedicated to forward deployments in Eastern Europe. Her job is to be ready to go to war against Russia in Eastern Europe, so if there is conflict between Russia and NATO, she will be "innit." What is the best thing that could happen, today, to keep her out of that conflict? Ukrainian victory. Total expulsion of Russian forces from Ukraine. The further away are the Russian air bases, the further away is the threat is to my daughter. Same for Russian warcraft and ordnance of all types. The more that are destroyed in Ukraine, the fewer that can be brought to bear against my daughter.

It literally is that simple. Just amazing that war opponents refuse to see, to even address the obvious strategic dumbassery of the argument that we have no interest in the outcome of the war in Ukraine. The budget argument is valid. The readiness argument is valid. But the "no interest" argument above is beyond silly. I mean, the Ukraine War is the first thing in my adult life that NATO has ever agreed upon nearly unanimously. How could that be if support for Ukraine was nothing but US hornswoggling everyone to feed the military industrial complex? Hornswoggling of such a caliber as to jolt Sweden and Finland, the international avatars of studious neutrality, into joining NATO at warp speed in response to overwhelming public support?

Could it be that what we're see in policy toward Ukraine is a rare evidence of a case so strong that it actually has effectively unanimous consent of nations who've rarely agreed on anything, to include paying their dues to the organization they now are following?

---

Quite correct.

Well said. I'm guessing some on the other side don't support NATO itself.

sombear said:

---

Well said. I'm guessing some on the other side don't support NATO itself.

---

I don't know of anyone who has said they don't support the current make up of NATO or its existence as a military alliance.

What some have opposed is the reckless expansion of this military alliance right up to the borders of a nuclear armed state. One that has said many times that it will view such expansion as a serious provocation.

Plus, some have asked what benefits to NATO are provided by trying to bring in poor, corrupt, ex-Soviet states?

Moldova is not exactly helping any military alliance become stronger….so why should NATO want it?

bear2be2 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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trey3216 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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The certain way to a hot war is that the Ukrainians start winning. Fortunately the chances of that are roughly zero. But those who cheer for Ukraine should be aware that's what they're supporting. What's much more likely is that Biden or some other idiot makes a mistake and things get out of control. Evidently that's a risk that the Russophobes are either oblivious to or are willing to accept.

---

If Russia's a big enough bltch to get their ass kicked by Ukraine, and then start a hot war with NATO...then they absolutely deserve to be eviscerated from the face of the earth.

---

Neither of those things will happen. What could happen in theory is that Russia resorts to tactical nukes in Ukraine and NATO feels compelled to retaliate. But again, Russia would actually have to be in danger of losing, so we're talking parallel universes here.

---

Russian can wipe Ukraine off the face of the earth and NATO has no treaty obligation to do anything about it.

Just like China can wipe Mongolia off the map and the United States has no treaty obligation to interfere.

Luckily the people who rule in Moscow and Beijing are not insane...what they want is for Ukraine and Mongolia to be inside their respective economic-cultural-military spheres of influence.

Just like we want and demand that Canada and Mexico be in ours.....

---

When we invade Canada or Mexico to force them into our "sphere of influence," a hell of a euphemism for annexation, we can talk about the similarities here. Until then, this is not just a false equivalency, it's actively spreading Russian propaganda.

The facts here are simple and indisputable. There is a war in Ukraine currently for one reason and one reason only. Russia invaded. And they did so to the shock of all those who are now defending them.

This is quite literally a geopolitical case of "Don't start no ****, won't be no *****"

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I was in no way shocked. I would have been, if the US had allowed Ukraine to chart its own course and Putin still felt the need to invade.

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This is bull****, Sam. And I believe you're too intelligent and well-read not to know that. It's not the West's fault that most formerly authoritarian/colonized lands choose self-rule once they're given a taste of freedom/democracy.

Blaming the US for the Ukrainians' desire to be free of Russia is absurd. It takes all agency away from a population that has quite literally fought very hard to every advancement of freedom it has gotten in the past 35-40 years.

The Ukrainians didn't need to be convinced by the West that they didn't want to be ruled by Russia or a Russian puppet government. They learned that the hard way as part of the Soviet Union, and they earned/value their freedom every bit as much as the United States or any Western European nation.

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I believe you're also intelligent and well-read, but you're not listening to what Russia or even large parts of Ukraine are saying. Perhaps more important, you're not looking at what the US has done and continues to do. No one in possession of the facts could imagine that we've left Ukraine with any meaningful agency.

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I keep inviting you and the few others on your side to provide the specific ways that we're more to blame than Russia for the war taking place on Ukrainian soil currently, and I've heard nothing but crickets.

The US, by way of NATO, has largely honored every Russian threat in regards to Ukraine. Enough that we brokered its disarmament and refused its entry into NATO. That didn't keep Russia from invading ... twice. Appeasing Russia doesn't work.

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I'll skip our history of covert involvement in dozens of countries since WWII. Likewise our overt policy of regime change since the Cold War. You know or should know all about this. We've supported Ukrainian right-wing extremists for generations, and they're deeply embedded in Ukrainian politics despite what anyone may tell you. When Ukraine was on the verge of an economic agreement with Russia, we orchestrated a regime change, purged the bureaucracy, and effectively took control of the government from top to bottom.

Meanwhile, as Russia was closing down bases in Europe, Cuba, and Vietnam, we lied about our intentions and expanded NATO at every opportunity. We dismantled the nuclear security framework in Eastern Europe by withdrawing from the ABM, INF, and other treaties. We deceived Russia to gain support for NATO intervention in Libya by expressly promising not to use the no-fly zone as cover for regime change, then doing just that. We supported Islamic terrorists' effort to overthrow the government of Syria. We sabotaged the Minsk Agreement, using it as cover to build a Ukrainian army and prosecute a civil war against ethnic Russians in the Donbas in which 15,000 people died--a war precipitated, you will recall, by the US-supported coup in 2014.

Now consider Putin's position. American politicians are comparing him to Hitler. We're putting nuclear-capable missiles within a stone's throw from Moscow, which could trigger war at any time. A hostile government in Ukraine wants to take back Crimea, depriving Russia of the only port for its Black Sea fleet. In the space of a few years, Ukraine has gone from having basically no army to having the most formidable army in Europe. Without the Donbas, Russia will lose its last and only buffer against that army.

Someone here said they'd never support invading Mexico. I don't believe it. If Russia acted in Mexico the way we're acting in Ukraine, we would never tolerate it. If you can honestly say you wouldn't have a problem with it, hats off for consistency. Otherwise you have no business supporting this hypocrisy.