Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Quote:
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Insane.
— Jay in Kyiv (@JayinKyiv) January 30, 2024
Spain's expanding investigation has uncovered a Russian government offer of $500 biilion(!!) and military support to Catalonian separatists for their effort to break away from Madrid.
Russia's effort to foment civil war in western countries is only gaining momentum. pic.twitter.com/84kxQeFQaJ
Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
This cannot be a serious comment. I mean, I feel for your family if this is a serious comment.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
We do that too…sombear said:Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
boognish_bear said:Insane.
— Jay in Kyiv (@JayinKyiv) January 30, 2024
Spain's expanding investigation has uncovered a Russian government offer of $500 biilion(!!) and military support to Catalonian separatists for their effort to break away from Madrid.
Russia's effort to foment civil war in western countries is only gaining momentum. pic.twitter.com/84kxQeFQaJ
sombear said:Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
Ok AlexDoc Holliday said:We do that too…sombear said:Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
trey3216 said:This cannot be a serious comment. I mean, I feel for your family if this is a serious comment.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
sombear said:Ok AlexDoc Holliday said:We do that too…sombear said:Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
Do you really think we don't meddle in foreign elections and don't have people killed in other countries for political reasons?sombear said:Ok AlexDoc Holliday said:We do that too…sombear said:Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war (which they told us Russia was losing)
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid (not just military we are paying to keep their whole economy afloat including retiree pensions)
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough (which they lied to us about and said that the new spring offensive would be decisive...that was 6-7 months ago and now completely forgotten)
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
It would be one thing if Ukraine was seriously kicking ass and dealing catastrophic blows to Russia…but that's not the case.KaiBear said:
Doc nailed the key ingredient.
There will be either a peace treaty or semi permanent ceasefire.
And Ukraine will have to cede some of its territory to Russia.
Billions spent and hundreds of thousands of lives lost due to the biggest US foreign policy blunder since WW2.
Thank you president Biden.
Goal post movedKaiBear said:sombear said:Ok AlexDoc Holliday said:We do that too…sombear said:Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
And of course Doc is correct.
The US has a long rap sheet of executing politicians of other countries .
Some fair points, but as many or more on your side claimed Russia would take over all of Ukraine in 48 - 72 hours. Then a month. Then 3 months. Then 6 months. And so on. And for the last 6 months, it's been Ukraine will be beaten all the way back any day now.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war (which they told us Russia was losing)
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid (not just military we are paying to keep their whole economy afloat including retiree pensions)
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough (which they lied to us about and said that the new spring offensive would be decisive...that was 6-7 months ago and now completely forgotten)
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
sombear said:Goal post movedKaiBear said:sombear said:Ok AlexDoc Holliday said:We do that too…sombear said:Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
And of course Doc is correct.
The US has a long rap sheet of executing politicians of other countries .
sombear said:Some fair points, but as many or more on your side claimed Russia would take over all of Ukraine in 48 - 72 hours. Then a month. Then 3 months. Then 6 months. And so on. And for the last 6 months, it's been Ukraine will be beaten all the way back any day now.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war (which they told us Russia was losing)
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid (not just military we are paying to keep their whole economy afloat including retiree pensions)
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough (which they lied to us about and said that the new spring offensive would be decisive...that was 6-7 months ago and now completely forgotten)
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Instead, what we have is basically a stalemate.
If that were possible I don't think Ukraine would have been using cluster bombs against hardened Russian defenses. NYT reports that Russia is producing seven times more artillery ammo than the US and Europe combined. So best of luck with that.whiterock said:Hungary is using NATO positions as part of its effort to stop EU cultural agendas.Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
And perhaps he's looking further down the road, calculating what he believes is most likely to happen (Russia outlasting Nato in Ukraine) and making appropriate recalibrations (a dynamic I have repeatedly pointed out to you....)
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
KaiBear said:sombear said:Goal post movedKaiBear said:sombear said:Ok AlexDoc Holliday said:We do that too…sombear said:Putin just murders political and media opposition.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
And of course Doc is correct.
The US has a long rap sheet of executing politicians of other countries .
This comment makes no sense.
A poster accurately mentions that the US has a long history of doing the same executions as Putin.
That's a direct line comparison.
Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Some fair points, but as many or more on your side claimed Russia would take over all of Ukraine in 48 - 72 hours. Then a month. Then 3 months. Then 6 months. And so on. And for the last 6 months, it's been Ukraine will be beaten all the way back any day now.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war (which they told us Russia was losing)
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid (not just military we are paying to keep their whole economy afloat including retiree pensions)
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough (which they lied to us about and said that the new spring offensive would be decisive...that was 6-7 months ago and now completely forgotten)
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Instead, what we have is basically a stalemate.
My side....what is my side?
And I never once said russia would take over ukraine in 48hrs
I have been surprised and how incompetent the russia military has been....but I guess stupid me for thinking the russian ruling class had spent money making their army better since the 2 Chechen Wars vs just laundry the money away to Monaco and Switzerland
Not terribly close to that number, but an awful lot of Ukrainians have indeed died trying to join the liberal order, solely because Russia invaded to try & stop them.Realitybites said:Quote:
dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).
Well I'm glad to see that you're finally admitting what killing a half million people was all about.
Just like Obiden's Medusa is admitting why our soldiers are dying.
"3 US Troops Died Fighting For 'This Administration'"
As autocrats go, Zelensky cancelled elections in Ukraine, Putin did not cancel elections in Russia.
Temporarily for a few decades is money well spent if it keeps Russia hundreds of miles away from Nato borders.Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Either we epically failed at providing military aid or we're delusional about capabilities.
The only conclusion I can come to is Ukraine is going to continue to fight for years, we're going to spend well over a trillion dollars and it's going to end with Ukraine being forced to give up territory. All to temporarily weaken Russia.
If that's unacceptable then you'll need a hot war with the US and the death toll will grow tenfold.
7x is a bit rich, but they are producing a very narrow band of ammo at a very high rate. Meanwhile, they're using duct tape on their fighter jets....Sam Lowry said:If that were possible I don't think Ukraine would have been using cluster bombs against hardened Russian defenses. NYT reports that Russia is producing seven times more artillery ammo than the US and Europe combined. So best of luck with that.whiterock said:Hungary is using NATO positions as part of its effort to stop EU cultural agendas.Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
And perhaps he's looking further down the road, calculating what he believes is most likely to happen (Russia outlasting Nato in Ukraine) and making appropriate recalibrations (a dynamic I have repeatedly pointed out to you....)
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
whiterock said:Temporarily for a few decades is money well spent if it keeps Russia hundreds of miles away from Nato borders…."Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Either we epically failed at providing military aid or we're delusional about capabilities.
The only conclusion I can come to is Ukraine is going to continue to fight for years, we're going to spend well over a trillion dollars and it's going to end with Ukraine being forced to give up territory. All to temporarily weaken Russia.
If that's unacceptable then you'll need a hot war with the US and the death toll will grow tenfold.
sombear said:Redbrickbear said:sombear said:Some fair points, but as many or more on your side claimed Russia would take over all of Ukraine in 48 - 72 hours. Then a month. Then 3 months. Then 6 months. And so on. And for the last 6 months, it's been Ukraine will be beaten all the way back any day now.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war (which they told us Russia was losing)
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid (not just military we are paying to keep their whole economy afloat including retiree pensions)
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough (which they lied to us about and said that the new spring offensive would be decisive...that was 6-7 months ago and now completely forgotten)
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Instead, what we have is basically a stalemate.
My side....what is my side?
And I never once said russia would take over ukraine in 48hrs
I have been surprised and how incompetent the russia military has been....but I guess stupid me for thinking the russian ruling class had spent money making their army better since the 2 Chechen Wars vs just laundry the money away to Monaco and Switzerland
Your side as in those opposed to us supporting Ukraine from the outset….
If Russia is super weak right now using duct tape on their fighter jets and NATO grows and gets stronger over the next few decades…there's no way they'd consider targeting a NATO country.whiterock said:Temporarily for a few decades is money well spent if it keeps Russia hundreds of miles away from Nato borders.Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Either we epically failed at providing military aid or we're delusional about capabilities.
The only conclusion I can come to is Ukraine is going to continue to fight for years, we're going to spend well over a trillion dollars and it's going to end with Ukraine being forced to give up territory. All to temporarily weaken Russia.
If that's unacceptable then you'll need a hot war with the US and the death toll will grow tenfold.
You have not yet explained how letting Russia have whatever it wants in Ukraine reduces the odds of "a hot war with the US and (a) death toll (that) will grow tendfold."
Doc Holliday said:If Russia is super weak right now using duct tape on their fighter jets and NATO grows and gets stronger over the next few decades…there's no way they'd consider targeting a NATO country.whiterock said:Temporarily for a few decades is money well spent if it keeps Russia hundreds of miles away from Nato borders.Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Either we epically failed at providing military aid or we're delusional about capabilities.
The only conclusion I can come to is Ukraine is going to continue to fight for years, we're going to spend well over a trillion dollars and it's going to end with Ukraine being forced to give up territory. All to temporarily weaken Russia.
If that's unacceptable then you'll need a hot war with the US and the death toll will grow tenfold.
You have not yet explained how letting Russia have whatever it wants in Ukraine reduces the odds of "a hot war with the US and (a) death toll (that) will grow tendfold."
I don't understand how in your opinion they're getting manhandled by a small neighboring country that's in dire need….
Russia was coming regardless of the idiots verbal gaffes.KaiBear said:
Doc nailed the key ingredient.
There will be either a peace treaty or semi permanent ceasefire.
And Ukraine will have to cede some of its territory to Russia.
Billions spent and hundreds of thousands of lives lost due to the biggest US foreign policy blunder since WW2.
Thank you president Biden.
You always bring up population numbers. It's irrelevant in an age where technology and human efficiency outpace declining birth rates by a factor of at least 10. As a stark example, perhaps 3 humans are required to launch a weapon that will take out millions. More friendly examples would be farming and production ratios.Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:If Russia is super weak right now using duct tape on their fighter jets and NATO grows and gets stronger over the next few decades…there's no way they'd consider targeting a NATO country.whiterock said:Temporarily for a few decades is money well spent if it keeps Russia hundreds of miles away from Nato borders.Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Either we epically failed at providing military aid or we're delusional about capabilities.
The only conclusion I can come to is Ukraine is going to continue to fight for years, we're going to spend well over a trillion dollars and it's going to end with Ukraine being forced to give up territory. All to temporarily weaken Russia.
If that's unacceptable then you'll need a hot war with the US and the death toll will grow tenfold.
You have not yet explained how letting Russia have whatever it wants in Ukraine reduces the odds of "a hot war with the US and (a) death toll (that) will grow tendfold."
I don't understand how in your opinion they're getting manhandled by a small neighboring country that's in dire need….
It's hard because the pro-intervention side has to make two arguments at once.
1. Russia is a basket-case country with a bad conscript army of old rusting out Soviet equipment junk…filled with soldiers (many from jails) that don't want to serve and a corrupt political class that steals from the military spending. A country with 25% of its citizens not having indoor toilets which can not even impose its will on a weak neighbor.
2. Russia is a powerful threat to the 700,000,000 NATO alliance of 30 plus nations…many of whom are the most advanced & economically powerful nations on earth.
Obviously, argument 1 is closer to the truth…but you need argument number 2 so that people keep funding the proxy war and be afraid of the Russian military menace
If Russia isn't a threat to NATO, then why does it matter how close they are?Redbrickbear said:whiterock said:Temporarily for a few decades is money well spent if it keeps Russia hundreds of miles away from Nato borders…."Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Either we epically failed at providing military aid or we're delusional about capabilities.
The only conclusion I can come to is Ukraine is going to continue to fight for years, we're going to spend well over a trillion dollars and it's going to end with Ukraine being forced to give up territory. All to temporarily weaken Russia.
If that's unacceptable then you'll need a hot war with the US and the death toll will grow tenfold.
How can Russia say away from NATO's borders if it keeps expanding toward Russia?
Russia is trying to put a buffer between themselves and our weapons now that we've foolishly dismantled the arms control framework that wiser leaders took decades to build. If they succeed it will make all of us safer.whiterock said:You have not yet explained how letting Russia have whatever it wants in Ukraine reduces the odds of "a hot war with the US and (a) death toll (that) will grow tendfold."Doc Holliday said:I get your motivation, but I'm trying to be realistic.whiterock said:None of those acronyms are a part of the Ukrainian problem.Doc Holliday said:Our business model is going to be NWO globalist WEF nonsense and will wreak tyranny across the planet at some point…just sayinwhiterock said:why on earth would we deny ammo to Ukrainians willing to die to defend their own country against an autocratic regime dead-set on destroying the liberal order (our business model).KaiBear said:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Hungary is trying to take a stand for what NATO and the West used to represent. I'm surprised they haven't been kicked out already. I'll have mixed feelings about NATO's collapse, but it's probably beyond reform at this point.whiterock said:I can show it to you, but I can't understand it for you.Sam Lowry said:Nice day for a stroll out to the bailey?whiterock said:
Bookmarking this for the next time the "Russia couldn't/wouldn't invade, is no threat to anyone" tossed out
Sentiments like the ones noted exist in every country, including ours. Their resonance will wax & wane. The resonate most when Russian armies are right across the border.
Are you watching what's going on in Sweden right now? Govt. is using "war footing" type statements, telling the country they must prepare for war. They realize that if Hungary does torpedo Sweden's membership application, Russia will likely invade. Nato might just respond by tossing out Hungary. (and Slovakia might even follow them.)
The prospect of Russian invasion of Nato is not the paramount risk. Rather, the #1 risk to Nato is division and collapse in the face of Russian posturing for war. I'm guessing that would probably make you happy.
Keep Ukraine ass-deep in ammo and this will all turn out fine.
For tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians……more ammo won't mean a thing .
Biden / Harris bleating about Ukrainian membership into NATO with 200,000 Russian troops positioned along the border is the biggest U.S. foreign policy miscalculation since WW2.
If "tyranny across the globe" is your concern, and it should be, I'd suggest that the best way to deal with such to to focus first and foremost on the autocratic regimes in the world which invade democratically elected governments. Helping the latter shatter the armies of the former is a logical A-to-B solution to the most urgent part of the problem.
Three things:
No end in sight after more than 22 months of war
Ukrainians highly dependent on mostly US military aid
Ukrainian counteroffensives have brought no big breakthrough
It's the second winter of full-scale war with a resource-rich, nuclear-armed superpower that has more than triple Ukraine's population. If this was going according to plan it would have already been winding down.
Either we epically failed at providing military aid or we're delusional about capabilities.
The only conclusion I can come to is Ukraine is going to continue to fight for years, we're going to spend well over a trillion dollars and it's going to end with Ukraine being forced to give up territory. All to temporarily weaken Russia.
If that's unacceptable then you'll need a hot war with the US and the death toll will grow tenfold.
