FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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trey3216 said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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J.R. said:

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Realitybites said:

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J.R. said:

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well, for you Maga boys. Fat Boy said he would end the war in 48 hrs. If he is indeed elected and sworn in, anyone have $20K that doesn't happen? Just checking

---

I could end the war in 24 hours with three phone calls. Let's see how Trump does. I would probably make four more as a matter of diplomatic courtesy.

---

and exactly how? Inquiring minds would like to know.

---

It's simple, just give Putin what he wants.

---

No, it's much better to have hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians die first.

Then negotiate.

---

And hundreds of thousands of Russians. Ukraine only has to fight until Russia no longer finds the juice worth the squeeze.

Ukraine soldiers are fighting for their home against invaders, Russian soldiers are fighting because they have to.

The longer it goes on the pressure on Putin grows to end the war and save face any way he can.

---

Ukrainian's AND Russians are dying because of miscalculations of RUSSIAN elites .

---

Fixed it for you

---

You didn't 'fix' anything.

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead because of the miscalculations of US elites as well.

---

the US didn't try to invade and takeover Ukraine

---

The US repeatedly pushed a NATO membership for Ukraine involving the probable placement of nuclear missiles.

Nuclear missiles so close to major Russian cities as to preclude any chance for defensive action.
Putin repeatedly stated such NATO membership for Ukraine was an intolerable threat to Russian security.

He was ignored.

Finally Putin put 200,000 troops on the Russian- Ukrainian border to to show he meant business.

Vice president Harris flys to Europe and publicly states still AGAIN the Biden's administration desire to have
Ukraine in NATO.

Putin invades.

Biggest US foreign policy blunder since the Korean War.

Tragic events happen when the president of the United States is a full on dementia case.

---

I love how you get to Putin invaded and it is the US fault. Right after we caused the volcanoes in Tongs to explode and the drought in the US. 2022 was a bad year for US, since we are responsible for pretty much everything bad...

---

Biden and Company miscalculated despite all the warnings. They simply never believed Putin would go to war to stop NATO nuclear missiles placed on his door step. Nuclear missiles in a country that ( justifiably) hates Russia.

Even in the presence of a final warning involving over 200,000 Russian troops; our dementia led administration kept pushing.
I vividly remember watching Harris's final pre war speech inviting Ukraine into NATO. Couldn't believe it.
Knew at that moment Putin would roll the dice.

Now hundreds of thousands are dead, millions displaced, billions of US taxpayer's money wasted and no end in sight.

---

Nukes can hit Russia in the same timeframe from multiple spots in NATO territory. He invaded because he could under current leadership. Don't romanticize Putin, he is a KGB thug and will always be a KGB thug bully.

You are looking for things that are not there. Putin invaded Ukraine because he wants to reassemble the glory years. He wants Crimea for the port and Donbas for the Wheat, just like Hitler did I the 1940's. The rest is an excuse to get what he wants.

There is no cause and effect. Biden is weak, Putin took what he wants. Simple as that. Just like in the 90's Russia negotiated after Desert Storm, we showed we were damn good at fighting the type battle we would have to in Europe. The biggest cause and effect is Biden's **** up in leaving Afghanistan, that showed incompetence. Green light...

---

You are wrong. Our dementia afflicted president was wrong, and now hundreds of thousands of people are dead.

Even Obama would have not misplayed his hand as badly as Joe Biden. Even Obama would have backed off in the face of 200,000 troops along the Russian-Ukrainian border.

Joe Biden is the oldest president in US history. He is in the worst mental condition of any US president since Woodrow Wilson had a massive stroke during his 2nd term. Joe Biden is, in great measure, responsible for this Ukrainian- Russian War. Of course Putin also miscalculated. He thought his army would overrun Ukraine in a few weeks . Putin is also responsible for this slaughter of innocents.

This war will be concluded within the next 12 months.
Putin will keep much of eastern Ukraine that is already occupied by a significant percentage of ethnic Russians.

Ukraine will not join NATO.

Joe Biden will disappear shortly with a secrete multi million dollar golden parachute. Lionized by our liberal media as a great president who ' saved democracy'.

Putin will be remembered as a great leader by the Russian people. ' Great' in the model of Joseph Stalin.

However hundreds of thousands of average people will remain irrevocably dead.

Realitybites said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

Blaming anyone but the invading country for those deaths is complete lunacy.

---

Invasions can take a lot of different forms. There is the invasion on our southern border, for instance, where millions of unarmed people invade and their numbers mask the foreign fighters coming across. Then there are the Soros-funded, US NGO administered color revolutions where millions of dollars pour across a border to stand up an AstroTurf revolt. Finally there is the more traditional form that the Russians are using in response to said color revolution in Ukraine.

---

Completely irrelevant to the conversation, but alright

Bestweekeverr said:

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KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

J.R. said:

---

well, for you Maga boys. Fat Boy said he would end the war in 48 hrs. If he is indeed elected and sworn in, anyone have $20K that doesn't happen? Just checking

---

I could end the war in 24 hours with three phone calls. Let's see how Trump does. I would probably make four more as a matter of diplomatic courtesy.

---

and exactly how? Inquiring minds would like to know.

---

It's simple, just give Putin what he wants.

---

No, it's much better to have hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians die first.

Then negotiate.

---

And hundreds of thousands of Russians. Ukraine only has to fight until Russia no longer finds the juice worth the squeeze.

Ukraine soldiers are fighting for their home against invaders, Russian soldiers are fighting because they have to.

The longer it goes on the pressure on Putin grows to end the war and save face any way he can.

---

Ukrainian's AND Russians are dying because of miscalculations of RUSSIAN elites .

---

Fixed it for you

---

You didn't 'fix' anything.

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead because of the miscalculations of US elites as well.

---

the US didn't try to invade and takeover Ukraine

---

The US repeatedly pushed a NATO membership for Ukraine involving the probable placement of nuclear missiles.

Nuclear missiles so close to major Russian cities as to preclude any chance for defensive action.
Putin repeatedly stated such NATO membership for Ukraine was an intolerable threat to Russian security.

He was ignored.

Finally Putin put 200,000 troops on the Russian- Ukrainian border to to show he meant business.

Vice president Harris flys to Europe and publicly states still AGAIN the Biden's administration desire to have
Ukraine in NATO.

Putin invades.

Biggest US foreign policy blunder since the Korean War.

Tragic events happen when the president of the United States is a full on dementia case.

---

I love how you get to Putin invaded and it is the US fault. Right after we caused the volcanoes in Tongs to explode and the drought in the US. 2022 was a bad year for US, since we are responsible for pretty much everything bad...

---

Biden and Company miscalculated despite all the warnings. They simply never believed Putin would go to war to stop NATO nuclear missiles placed on his door step. Nuclear missiles in a country that ( justifiably) hates Russia.

Even in the presence of a final warning involving over 200,000 Russian troops; our dementia led administration kept pushing.
I vividly remember watching Harris's final pre war speech inviting Ukraine into NATO. Couldn't believe it.
Knew at that moment Putin would roll the dice.

Now hundreds of thousands are dead, millions displaced, billions of US taxpayer's money wasted and no end in sight.

---

Putin in his interview with Tucker gave no indication that he invaded Ukraine due to NATO actions, but instead using centuries of history to justify his attempt at "unification" of Ukraine and Russia.

---

( sigh )

One interview.

So what ?

Would the US allow Russia to place nuclear missiles aimed at US cities into Juarez and Tijuana, Mexico ? Nuclear missiles manned by Russians and under the nominal authority of the Mexican drug cartels ?

THINK !

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

J.R. said:

---

well, for you Maga boys. Fat Boy said he would end the war in 48 hrs. If he is indeed elected and sworn in, anyone have $20K that doesn't happen? Just checking

---

I could end the war in 24 hours with three phone calls. Let's see how Trump does. I would probably make four more as a matter of diplomatic courtesy.

---

and exactly how? Inquiring minds would like to know.

---

It's simple, just give Putin what he wants.

---

No, it's much better to have hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians die first.

Then negotiate.

---

And hundreds of thousands of Russians. Ukraine only has to fight until Russia no longer finds the juice worth the squeeze.

Ukraine soldiers are fighting for their home against invaders, Russian soldiers are fighting because they have to.

The longer it goes on the pressure on Putin grows to end the war and save face any way he can.

---

Ukrainian's AND Russians are dying because of miscalculations of RUSSIAN elites .

---

Fixed it for you

---

You didn't 'fix' anything.

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead because of the miscalculations of US elites as well.

---

the US didn't try to invade and takeover Ukraine

---

The US repeatedly pushed a NATO membership for Ukraine involving the probable placement of nuclear missiles.

Nuclear missiles so close to major Russian cities as to preclude any chance for defensive action.
Putin repeatedly stated such NATO membership for Ukraine was an intolerable threat to Russian security.

He was ignored.

Finally Putin put 200,000 troops on the Russian- Ukrainian border to to show he meant business.

Vice president Harris flys to Europe and publicly states still AGAIN the Biden's administration desire to have
Ukraine in NATO.

Putin invades.

Biggest US foreign policy blunder since the Korean War.

Tragic events happen when the president of the United States is a full on dementia case.

---

I love how you get to Putin invaded and it is the US fault. Right after we caused the volcanoes in Tongs to explode and the drought in the US. 2022 was a bad year for US, since we are responsible for pretty much everything bad...

---

Biden and Company miscalculated despite all the warnings. They simply never believed Putin would go to war to stop NATO nuclear missiles placed on his door step. Nuclear missiles in a country that ( justifiably) hates Russia.

Even in the presence of a final warning involving over 200,000 Russian troops; our dementia led administration kept pushing.
I vividly remember watching Harris's final pre war speech inviting Ukraine into NATO. Couldn't believe it.
Knew at that moment Putin would roll the dice.

Now hundreds of thousands are dead, millions displaced, billions of US taxpayer's money wasted and no end in sight.

---

Putin in his interview with Tucker gave no indication that he invaded Ukraine due to NATO actions, but instead using centuries of history to justify his attempt at "unification" of Ukraine and Russia.

---

( sigh )

One interview.

So what ?

Would the US allow Russia to place nuclear missiles aimed at US cities into Juarez and Tijuana, Mexico ? Nuclear missiles manned by Russians and under the nominal authority of the Mexican drug cartels ?

THINK !

---

Sure, and Putin isn't the most trustworthy guy. But he had every reason to throw Biden/NATO under the bus as a reason for his invasion, Tucker even set him up, but he didn't! Why? What evidence do you have that Putin invaded because of NATO.

Ukraine got tired of being ruled by a Russian puppet and decided they would be better off aligned with the West. That is completely their decision that Russia should have no part in. If Russia didn't want that to happen they should have been better neighbors.

If we treated Mexico like Russia has to Ukraine for the past 70 years I wouldn't blame Mexico for siding with Russia over us. Decades of failed diplomacy on Russia's part is not an excuse for a military invasion.

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

J.R. said:

---

well, for you Maga boys. Fat Boy said he would end the war in 48 hrs. If he is indeed elected and sworn in, anyone have $20K that doesn't happen? Just checking

---

I could end the war in 24 hours with three phone calls. Let's see how Trump does. I would probably make four more as a matter of diplomatic courtesy.

---

and exactly how? Inquiring minds would like to know.

---

It's simple, just give Putin what he wants.

---

No, it's much better to have hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians die first.

Then negotiate.

---

And hundreds of thousands of Russians. Ukraine only has to fight until Russia no longer finds the juice worth the squeeze.

Ukraine soldiers are fighting for their home against invaders, Russian soldiers are fighting because they have to.

The longer it goes on the pressure on Putin grows to end the war and save face any way he can.

---

Ukrainian's AND Russians are dying because of miscalculations of RUSSIAN elites .

---

Fixed it for you

---

You didn't 'fix' anything.

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead because of the miscalculations of US elites as well.

---

the US didn't try to invade and takeover Ukraine

---

The US repeatedly pushed a NATO membership for Ukraine involving the probable placement of nuclear missiles.

Nuclear missiles so close to major Russian cities as to preclude any chance for defensive action.
Putin repeatedly stated such NATO membership for Ukraine was an intolerable threat to Russian security.

He was ignored.

Finally Putin put 200,000 troops on the Russian- Ukrainian border to to show he meant business.

Vice president Harris flys to Europe and publicly states still AGAIN the Biden's administration desire to have
Ukraine in NATO.

Putin invades.

Biggest US foreign policy blunder since the Korean War.

Tragic events happen when the president of the United States is a full on dementia case.

---

I love how you get to Putin invaded and it is the US fault. Right after we caused the volcanoes in Tongs to explode and the drought in the US. 2022 was a bad year for US, since we are responsible for pretty much everything bad...

---

Biden and Company miscalculated despite all the warnings. They simply never believed Putin would go to war to stop NATO nuclear missiles placed on his door step. Nuclear missiles in a country that ( justifiably) hates Russia.

Even in the presence of a final warning involving over 200,000 Russian troops; our dementia led administration kept pushing.
I vividly remember watching Harris's final pre war speech inviting Ukraine into NATO. Couldn't believe it.
Knew at that moment Putin would roll the dice.

Now hundreds of thousands are dead, millions displaced, billions of US taxpayer's money wasted and no end in sight.

---

Putin in his interview with Tucker gave no indication that he invaded Ukraine due to NATO actions, but instead using centuries of history to justify his attempt at "unification" of Ukraine and Russia.

---

( sigh )

One interview.

So what ?

Would the US allow Russia to place nuclear missiles aimed at US cities into Juarez and Tijuana, Mexico ? Nuclear missiles manned by Russians and under the nominal authority of the Mexican drug cartels ?

THINK !

---

The US isn't going to and doesn't need to put nuclear weapons in Ukraine. That is an infantile argument made to justify you and Sample Jack's stroking of Putin's short and curlies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

sombear said:

---

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

---

It is what he would do, the USSR had them there for decades...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

How far am I willing to go? That is the wrong question, how far is Ukraine? I would go as far as they want to go at this level. It is not for us to tell them what to give up of their Nation. You have this Paternalistic, dare I say Colonial, view that you know what is best for poor backward Ukraine. I disagree, let them decide. They are the ones that have to defend their freedom, not us. We are doing less than the French did for the US.

---

So your strategy is when Ukraine says jump, we ask how high.

Unbelievable.

---

You do realize we are only supplying weapons and sharing intel. So, the "how high" comment is a bit melodramatic. But, you guys seems to be into that. We are on the brink of WW3, Nukes will fly, and the draft will be re-instated next week... All because we gave Ukraine HIMARS. Drones and F16s, Russia is going Nuclear. Talk about overkill. We have not given enough to make up a Brigade Combat Team, much less beat Russia.

---

Ukraine wants more. So what are you telling me? Give them everything they want, or draw the line somewhere? You can't have it both ways.

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

How far am I willing to go? That is the wrong question, how far is Ukraine? I would go as far as they want to go at this level. It is not for us to tell them what to give up of their Nation. You have this Paternalistic, dare I say Colonial, view that you know what is best for poor backward Ukraine. I disagree, let them decide. They are the ones that have to defend their freedom, not us. We are doing less than the French did for the US.

---

So your strategy is when Ukraine says jump, we ask how high.

Unbelievable.

---

You do realize we are only supplying weapons and sharing intel. So, the "how high" comment is a bit melodramatic. But, you guys seems to be into that. We are on the brink of WW3, Nukes will fly, and the draft will be re-instated next week... All because we gave Ukraine HIMARS. Drones and F16s, Russia is going Nuclear. Talk about overkill. We have not given enough to make up a Brigade Combat Team, much less beat Russia.

---

Ukraine wants more. So what are you telling me? Give them everything they want, or draw the line somewhere? You can't have it both ways.

---

Ukraine has every right to want more, it's their fkn country.

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

J.R. said:

---

well, for you Maga boys. Fat Boy said he would end the war in 48 hrs. If he is indeed elected and sworn in, anyone have $20K that doesn't happen? Just checking

---

I could end the war in 24 hours with three phone calls. Let's see how Trump does. I would probably make four more as a matter of diplomatic courtesy.

---

and exactly how? Inquiring minds would like to know.

---

It's simple, just give Putin what he wants.

---

No, it's much better to have hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians die first.

Then negotiate.

---

And hundreds of thousands of Russians. Ukraine only has to fight until Russia no longer finds the juice worth the squeeze.

Ukraine soldiers are fighting for their home against invaders, Russian soldiers are fighting because they have to.

The longer it goes on the pressure on Putin grows to end the war and save face any way he can.

---

Ukrainian's AND Russians are dying because of miscalculations of RUSSIAN elites .

---

Fixed it for you

---

You didn't 'fix' anything.

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead because of the miscalculations of US elites as well.

---

the US didn't try to invade and takeover Ukraine

---

The US repeatedly pushed a NATO membership for Ukraine involving the probable placement of nuclear missiles.

Nuclear missiles so close to major Russian cities as to preclude any chance for defensive action.
Putin repeatedly stated such NATO membership for Ukraine was an intolerable threat to Russian security.

He was ignored.

Finally Putin put 200,000 troops on the Russian- Ukrainian border to to show he meant business.

Vice president Harris flys to Europe and publicly states still AGAIN the Biden's administration desire to have
Ukraine in NATO.

Putin invades.

Biggest US foreign policy blunder since the Korean War.

Tragic events happen when the president of the United States is a full on dementia case.

---

I love how you get to Putin invaded and it is the US fault. Right after we caused the volcanoes in Tongs to explode and the drought in the US. 2022 was a bad year for US, since we are responsible for pretty much everything bad...

---

Biden and Company miscalculated despite all the warnings. They simply never believed Putin would go to war to stop NATO nuclear missiles placed on his door step. Nuclear missiles in a country that ( justifiably) hates Russia.

Even in the presence of a final warning involving over 200,000 Russian troops; our dementia led administration kept pushing.
I vividly remember watching Harris's final pre war speech inviting Ukraine into NATO. Couldn't believe it.
Knew at that moment Putin would roll the dice.

Now hundreds of thousands are dead, millions displaced, billions of US taxpayer's money wasted and no end in sight.

---

Putin in his interview with Tucker gave no indication that he invaded Ukraine due to NATO actions, but instead using centuries of history to justify his attempt at "unification" of Ukraine and Russia.

---

( sigh )

One interview.

So what ?

Would the US allow Russia to place nuclear missiles aimed at US cities into Juarez and Tijuana, Mexico ? Nuclear missiles manned by Russians and under the nominal authority of the Mexican drug cartels ?

THINK !

---

Sure, and Putin isn't the most trustworthy guy. But he had every reason to throw Biden/NATO under the bus as a reason for his invasion, Tucker even set him up, but he didn't! Why? What evidence do you have that Putin invaded because of NATO.

---

You obviously didn't watch the whole interview.

Watch Putin in that interview, then watch Biden's debate performance or big boy press conference. We look weak and ridiculous. But I digress.

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

How far am I willing to go? That is the wrong question, how far is Ukraine? I would go as far as they want to go at this level. It is not for us to tell them what to give up of their Nation. You have this Paternalistic, dare I say Colonial, view that you know what is best for poor backward Ukraine. I disagree, let them decide. They are the ones that have to defend their freedom, not us. We are doing less than the French did for the US.

---

So your strategy is when Ukraine says jump, we ask how high.

Unbelievable.

---

You do realize we are only supplying weapons and sharing intel. So, the "how high" comment is a bit melodramatic. But, you guys seems to be into that. We are on the brink of WW3, Nukes will fly, and the draft will be re-instated next week... All because we gave Ukraine HIMARS. Drones and F16s, Russia is going Nuclear. Talk about overkill. We have not given enough to make up a Brigade Combat Team, much less beat Russia.

---

Ukraine wants more. So what are you telling me? Give them everything they want, or draw the line somewhere? You can't have it both ways.

---

Ukraine has every right to want more, it's their fkn country.

---

Sure. They can want more. But they don't have a right to perpetual welfare from US taxpayers. That's up to our elected officials.

trey3216 said:

---

---

How do Ukranian casualties compare? Genuinely curious.

Russia playing the migrant game for their own soft invasion of Europe. First time ever for Finland. Most immigrants are Syrian and Somali. Wonder how some of you boys feel about this?

https://apnews.com/article/finland-migrants-russia-92c3c414d60ba1f7097297f7dca62e78

HELSINKI (AP) Finnish lawmakers on Friday narrowly approved a controversial bill that will allow border guards to turn away third-country migrants attempting to enter from neighboring Russia and reject their asylum applications because Helsinki says Moscow is orchestrating an influx of migrants to the border.

The government's bill, meant to introduce temporary measures to curb migrants from entering the Nordic nation, is a response to what Finland sees as "hybrid warfare" by Russia. It believes Moscow is funneling undocumented migrants to the two countries' border.

The temporary law, valid for one year, was approved by 167 lawmakers the minimum needed for it to pass in the 200-seat Eduskunta, or Parliament. Lawmakers of the Left Alliance and the Green League were among the 31 who voted against the bill.

Citing national security, Prime Minister Petteri Orpo's center-right government had said the law was needed to tackle Russia's maneuvers of deliberately ushering migrants to the normally heavily guarded Russia-Finland border zone that is also the European Union's external border to the north.

Bear8084 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

You get eastern ukraine, including Kyiv. You don't get Odesa. What remains of Ukraine is eligible for EU economic, but not NATO membership. The Ukrainian constitution is re-written to command military neutrality, and its Nazi movement is banned. I have no desire to recreate the Cuban missile crisis so we are pulling our recently announced long range missiles from Germany. We aren't seizing your assets, and full economic and diplomatic ties with Russia are restored. Simultaneously we are building up the conventional forces of Poland, Germany, and our eastern NATO partners. We are going to keep a tight grip on the leash. But if you do send the Russian military west of Kyiv or into Odesa we let the leash go.

---

LMAO. Ok, vatnik shill. Take the tinfoil cap off too.

---

So you're not American. No American is going to repeatedly reach for "Vatnik", and change the spelling of these places in my original post to the Ukranian version.

---

That's the correct spelling and calling you what you are is just that, vatnik. For all your Putin stroking and Russian propaganda and blatant disinformation, I'm a lot more American than you, shill.

---

he's no vatnik. He's just clueless enough to not realize he's just achieved peace by declaring defeat.

Robert Wilson said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

---

How do Ukranian casualties compare? Genuinely curious.

---

Schoolbooks say the attacker loses troops at 3x the rate of the defender.

official Ukraine position is that Russia is losing at 6-to-1 rate = for every Ukrainian soldier lost, Russia loses 6.

6-1 is probably overstatement. Schoolbook 3-1 almost certainly understates it, given conditions.

At anything above a 3-1 rate, Ukraine can hang in the war as long as the Russians can, from a sheer manpower standpoint.

So just keep shipping ARTY shells and letting Russia do their human wave attacks.......

Very interesting. Thanks.

Curious that we are not getting those statistics, which would seemingly be more easily available than Russian casualty figures.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

Curious that we are not getting those statistics, which would seemingly be more easily available than Russian casualty figures.

---

OPSEC.

Wars of attrition are equations. The more numbers you hide, the harder it is for the opponent to calculate needs, where to apply resources, etc.....

Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

---

Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

---

Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

---

most of the Russian numbers are based on published funeral arrangements and documented social media announcements…and hardly even ref elect the number of prisoners and foreign nationals deceivingly thrust into combat by the Russians.

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

---

Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

---

most of the Russian numbers are based on published funeral arrangements and documented social media announcements…and hardly even ref elect the number of prisoners and foreign nationals deceivingly thrust into combat by the Russians.

---

Yup.

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2024/07/05/a-new-estimate-from-meduza-and-mediazona-shows-the-rate-of-russian-military-deaths-in-ukraine-is-only-growing

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

---

Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

---

I agree the numbers are mostly unknowable. And further, the numbers matter less for Russia.

That said, even Russian millbloggers regularly report massive Russian casualties, often well over 1000/day. Whiterock is right about typical numbers. And we do know enough about Russia's tactics to have a pretty good idea that Russia is losing more. Whether that is 2-1, 3-1 or more I have no idea.

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On the contrary, what we know about Russian tactics suggests the opposite. Whiterock often says that they're fighting a war of attrition, but he doesn't understand the implications of that. They've never engaged in the sort of costly operations that the Ukrainians continue to do.

Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Very interesting. Thanks.

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Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

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I agree the numbers are mostly unknowable. And further, the numbers matter less for Russia.

That said, even Russian millbloggers regularly report massive Russian casualties, often well over 1000/day. Whiterock is right about typical numbers. And we do know enough about Russia's tactics to have a pretty good idea that Russia is losing more. Whether that is 2-1, 3-1 or more I have no idea.

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On the contrary, what we know about Russian tactics suggests the opposite. Whiterock often says that they're fighting a war of attrition, but he doesn't understand the implications of that. They've never engaged in the sort of costly operations that the Ukrainians continue to do.

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Every Russian millblogger I've ever read (and every other source) reports Russia sending huge numbers into battles, often outnumbering Ukraine 5 or 10-1. Your post is the first from any source I've seen dispute that. And BTW I don't think acknowledging this is pro-Ukraine or anti-Russia. That's what Russia should be doing. And it seems to be working fairly well.

Sam Lowry said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Very interesting. Thanks.

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Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian Russian propaganda at face value.

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FIFY

The expected ratios of losses for attackers and defenders in warfare are not in dispute.
We also know that advances in tactics, strategy, and technology decidedly favor defense in this war.
We also know which side is attacking, and which side is defending for all but a couple months of this war.

So there is no basis to conclude Russia losses are any less than 3-1, and substantial evidence they are substantially higher.....likely running at minimum in excess of the 4-1 range, likely well above it. All available open source materials point to relentless Russian attacks. All available materials show very low survivability for Russian troops in armored vehicles, and very high survivability for Ukrainian troops in armored vehicles. And on and on. And of course all that tracks with the known fact that Ukraine has all the advantage of being on the defensive in a defensive contest.

You are obviously not being paid by the word.

sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

---

Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

---

I agree the numbers are mostly unknowable. And further, the numbers matter less for Russia.

That said, even Russian millbloggers regularly report massive Russian casualties, often well over 1000/day. Whiterock is right about typical numbers. And we do know enough about Russia's tactics to have a pretty good idea that Russia is losing more. Whether that is 2-1, 3-1 or more I have no idea.

---

On the contrary, what we know about Russian tactics suggests the opposite. Whiterock often says that they're fighting a war of attrition, but he doesn't understand the implications of that. They've never engaged in the sort of costly operations that the Ukrainians continue to do.

---

Every Russian millblogger I've ever read (and every other source) reports Russia sending huge numbers into battles, often outnumbering Ukraine 5 or 10-1. Your post is the first from any source I've seen dispute that. And BTW I don't think acknowledging this is pro-Ukraine or anti-Russia. That's what Russia should be doing. And it seems to be working fairly well.

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Sam is literally making it up as he goes a long.

Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

---

Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

---

I agree the numbers are mostly unknowable. And further, the numbers matter less for Russia.

That said, even Russian millbloggers regularly report massive Russian casualties, often well over 1000/day. Whiterock is right about typical numbers. And we do know enough about Russia's tactics to have a pretty good idea that Russia is losing more. Whether that is 2-1, 3-1 or more I have no idea.

---

On the contrary, what we know about Russian tactics suggests the opposite. Whiterock often says that they're fighting a war of attrition, but he doesn't understand the implications of that. They've never engaged in the sort of costly operations that the Ukrainians continue to do.

---

What do such details really matter ?

Thousands of people, both Russian and Ukrainians are being killed each month due to the manipulations of elites who never getting 1000 miles of the carnage.

If such elites were faced with the prospect of their sons fighting on the front lines for the next 12 months this war would be over within 72 hours.

KaiBear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

---

Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

---

I agree the numbers are mostly unknowable. And further, the numbers matter less for Russia.

That said, even Russian millbloggers regularly report massive Russian casualties, often well over 1000/day. Whiterock is right about typical numbers. And we do know enough about Russia's tactics to have a pretty good idea that Russia is losing more. Whether that is 2-1, 3-1 or more I have no idea.

---

On the contrary, what we know about Russian tactics suggests the opposite. Whiterock often says that they're fighting a war of attrition, but he doesn't understand the implications of that. They've never engaged in the sort of costly operations that the Ukrainians continue to do.

---

What do such details really matter ?

Thousands of people, both Russian and Ukrainians are being killed each month due to the manipulations of elites who never getting 1000 miles of the carnage.

If such elites were faced with the prospect of their sons fighting on the front lines for the next 12 months this war would be over within 72 hours.

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Bingo

The USA elite have not personally fought a war since World War II

They openly repelled against personally fighting in Vietnam. (Protests on the Ivy League campuses)

And it's only gotten worse since the '60s

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Very interesting. Thanks.

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Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian Russian propaganda at face value.

---

FIFY

The expected ratios of losses for attackers and defenders in warfare are not in dispute.
We also know that advances in tactics, strategy, and technology decidedly favor defense in this war.
We also know which side is attacking, and which side is defending for all but a couple months of this war.

So there is no basis to conclude Russia losses are any less than 3-1, and substantial evidence they are substantially higher.....likely running at minimum in excess of the 4-1 range, likely well above it. All available open source materials point to relentless Russian attacks. All available materials show very low survivability for Russian troops in armored vehicles, and very high survivability for Ukrainian troops in armored vehicles. And on and on. And of course all that tracks with the known fact that Ukraine has all the advantage of being on the defensive in a defensive contest.

You are obviously not being paid by the word.

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And you continue to prove that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

KaiBear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Very interesting. Thanks.

---

Also completely unsupported by any evidence except claims by the Ukrainians. Neither side releases official numbers for obvious reasons. Some just choose to take Ukrainian propaganda at face value.

---

I agree the numbers are mostly unknowable. And further, the numbers matter less for Russia.

That said, even Russian millbloggers regularly report massive Russian casualties, often well over 1000/day. Whiterock is right about typical numbers. And we do know enough about Russia's tactics to have a pretty good idea that Russia is losing more. Whether that is 2-1, 3-1 or more I have no idea.

---

On the contrary, what we know about Russian tactics suggests the opposite. Whiterock often says that they're fighting a war of attrition, but he doesn't understand the implications of that. They've never engaged in the sort of costly operations that the Ukrainians continue to do.

---

What do such details really matter ?

Thousands of people, both Russian and Ukrainians are being killed each month due to the manipulations of elites who never getting 1000 miles of the carnage.

If such elites were faced with the prospect of their sons fighting on the front lines for the next 12 months this war would be over within 72 hours.

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It matters because the more people believe the Biden/Whiterock propaganda, the more Russians and Ukrainians will get killed next month, and the next, and the next.