Netanyahu said "we are at war,"

523,363 Views | 6913 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by Redbrickbear
historian
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sombear said:

historian said:

I never said that there was a direct correlation or a cause-and-effect relationship between Ukraine and the other issues. It's really quite simple: whatever the issues with Ukraine are they are not nearly as important as our own border. Not one more penny should go to Ukraine into our own border is secured. Also we should have a complete audit so we know exactly where the money that we have sent has gone. If there is corruption and fraud then that should be taken into account and maybe the money should be reduced or cut off for that reason. It's one thing to help Ukraine defend them selves it's another thing to enrich Zelenskyy or somebody else.

Yes, it's Biden but he doesn't have total control. Congress controls the purse and they can limit what is spent on anything if they only show enough spine and do their jobs. In the end, our discussions on these boards are merely academic: we aren't in congress and have no control. We can only discuss what we think should be done and maybe try to influence our congressmen.

As for Trump, you are making the case for re-electing him.
It would be silly to argue there is no corruption relative to money we are spending. And I would say that about any government, including our own, let alone Eastern Europe.

But keep in mind, a strong majority of what we have sent is actual supplies - weapons, equipment, materials, etc. While not impossible, it was far easier to track and control these things.

As for money, we are sending a relatively low amount. Countries all over the world are sending monetary aide - military and non-military. But, we are sending some of course. Fortunately, there have been relatively few stories about actual theft, etc. Plus, as much as we all criticize big finance, their involvement gives me greater confidence. Unlike governments, they are not keen on burning money.

If we are sending weapons, ammo, etc I wonder to what extent our own military is doing without. I know that might sound difficult to believe but the government is a huge unwieldy leviathan with gross inefficiencies everywhere. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that Biden has been reckless with the process. To be honest, it's more difficult to believe it was done effectively. One only needs to look at his record on Afghanistan, the border, the economy, appointments to government positions, etc to see a seemingly endless list of failures.

On top of that, Congress has allotted billions of dollars for Ukraine. That is money.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
historian
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Exactly. We are being invaded and the front lines are only a couple hundred miles, give or take, from Baylor and everyone reading this. It is not a typical invasion but that is an accurate label.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
FLBear5630
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historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.
Redbrickbear
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FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
Whiskey Pete
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KaiBear said:

historian said:

I tend to think they are here for nefarious purposes from the beginning. Their decision to come here was not just to work, at least not all of them. The bigger question is who is helping them and why. Biden has essentially given the drug cartels control of our border, whether intentionally or not. But is the Chinese government part of the reason so many thousands of their citizens are coming? If so, why? Is Iran or some other Islamofascist regime sending thousands from the Middle East and again, why? These are very serious and legitimate questions and I do not know if anyone is even trying to answer them. Do we easily want another 9-11 because the potential exists.

Biden & our corrupt intelligence forces seem more interested in targeting Americans who disagree with any part of their radical & evil agenda.


Our citizens still do not fully comprehend what is happening along our border.

It is an invasion.

The ramifications of which are only now beginning to be felt.

Biden has encouraged this invasion with the implied message throughout central and South America

' We will provide all of your needs. Free. '
And yet, you're content with Biden (or whichever progressive democrat) walking right back into the White House instead of voting for the orange boogeyman, should he win the nomination.

You'll share just as much blame as the people you'll fault for voting Trump in the primary.
ATL Bear
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Whiskey Pete said:

KaiBear said:

historian said:

I tend to think they are here for nefarious purposes from the beginning. Their decision to come here was not just to work, at least not all of them. The bigger question is who is helping them and why. Biden has essentially given the drug cartels control of our border, whether intentionally or not. But is the Chinese government part of the reason so many thousands of their citizens are coming? If so, why? Is Iran or some other Islamofascist regime sending thousands from the Middle East and again, why? These are very serious and legitimate questions and I do not know if anyone is even trying to answer them. Do we easily want another 9-11 because the potential exists.

Biden & our corrupt intelligence forces seem more interested in targeting Americans who disagree with any part of their radical & evil agenda.


Our citizens still do not fully comprehend what is happening along our border.

It is an invasion.

The ramifications of which are only now beginning to be felt.

Biden has encouraged this invasion with the implied message throughout central and South America

' We will provide all of your needs. Free. '
And yet, you're content with Biden (or whichever progressive democrat) walking right back into the White House instead of voting for the orange boogeyman, should he win the nomination.

You'll share just as much blame as the people you'll fault for voting Trump in the primary.
This is like a child blaming the stove after being burned by it despite being told multiple times it is hot. Some lessons are learned the hard way. If people are dumb enough to support Trump at this point, what can be said?
Realitybites
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sombear said:


Think of your favorite word, context, or nuance. There obviously is a world of difference between gladly donating $100 of my salary to support an invaded country and . . . going to fight for that country.


If you want to mail Zelensky a hundred dollars so his wife can go shopping in Paris, be my guest. Just don't presume that you have the right to force every American to put that on the national credit card.
Whiskey Pete
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ATL Bear said:

Whiskey Pete said:

KaiBear said:

historian said:

I tend to think they are here for nefarious purposes from the beginning. Their decision to come here was not just to work, at least not all of them. The bigger question is who is helping them and why. Biden has essentially given the drug cartels control of our border, whether intentionally or not. But is the Chinese government part of the reason so many thousands of their citizens are coming? If so, why? Is Iran or some other Islamofascist regime sending thousands from the Middle East and again, why? These are very serious and legitimate questions and I do not know if anyone is even trying to answer them. Do we easily want another 9-11 because the potential exists.

Biden & our corrupt intelligence forces seem more interested in targeting Americans who disagree with any part of their radical & evil agenda.


Our citizens still do not fully comprehend what is happening along our border.

It is an invasion.

The ramifications of which are only now beginning to be felt.

Biden has encouraged this invasion with the implied message throughout central and South America

' We will provide all of your needs. Free. '
And yet, you're content with Biden (or whichever progressive democrat) walking right back into the White House instead of voting for the orange boogeyman, should he win the nomination.

You'll share just as much blame as the people you'll fault for voting Trump in the primary.
This is like a child blaming the stove after being burned by it despite being told multiple times it is hot. Some lessons are learned the hard way. If people are dumb enough to support Trump at this point, what can be said?
So who's to blame for a liberal progressive woke democrat walking back into the White House? The people that voted for Trump in the primary or the people that refuse to vote for Trump in the general?

I guess some people hate Trump more than they love America.

It's more like a child burning themselves on the stove and the parent being angry at being ignored, refuses to take the child for medical help.
sombear
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Realitybites said:

sombear said:


Think of your favorite word, context, or nuance. There obviously is a world of difference between gladly donating $100 of my salary to support an invaded country and . . . going to fight for that country.


If you want to mail Zelensky a hundred dollars so his wife can go shopping in Paris, be my guest. Just don't presume that you have the right to force every American to put that on the national credit card.
Really, your comeback is the $ going to Zelensky's wife?

And by gladly donate, I mean I have no problem with a miniscule fraction of my tax dollars going to Ukraine. It's less money for DEI, catfish resiliency studies, and federal abortions/sex changes . . . .
FLBear5630
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Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
GrowlTowel
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FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
KaiBear
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Realitybites said:

sombear said:


Think of your favorite word, context, or nuance. There obviously is a world of difference between gladly donating $100 of my salary to support an invaded country and . . . going to fight for that country.


If you want to mail Zelensky a hundred dollars so his wife can go shopping in Paris, be my guest. Just don't presume that you have the right to force every American to put that on the national credit card.
You are attempting to educate the terminally stupid.

Admire the effort but you might as well attempt to teach that cow n corral 5 advanced economics.

Because at the end of the day your pupil is still just a cow.

FLBear5630
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GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
First, she was a successful Governor. (Only Romney was and came closest to winning). Romney was running against Obama who was a good speaker and had the metrics working in his favor. Biden is not a good speaker and the metrics suck.

Second, Haley was a loyal (some would say one of the most loyal) Trump Cabinet Members. She literally went to war with China and Russia for Trump in the UN. No one can say she didn't follow his direction or rolled over.

Third, Haley has the media and big business in her corner. The others were not pro-business like Haley. Once again she would not be running against a Obama or Clinton, great speakers, but Biden. Biden's track record with Business is bad. The media doesn't even like him.

Fourth, age. Haley is younger than either Biden or Trump. She can really hit him on the age issue. Trump, not as much.

Finally, nobody has more baggage than Trump. Haley has some issues, but nothing compared to either Biden or Trump. There are ALOT of independents looking for somebody to vote for that in not Trump or Biden.

So, I think she stands a good shot at pulling it off. I think Trump's polls is setting up the GOP. I can't see him getting to the election or if he does even being on all the ballots.
Dubblcans
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FLBear5630 said:

GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
First, she was a successful Governor. (Only Romney was and came closest to winning). Romney was running against Obama who was a good speaker and had the metrics working in his favor. Biden is not a good speaker and the metrics suck.

Second, Haley was a loyal (some would say one of the most loyal) Trump Cabinet Members. She literally went to war with China and Russia for Trump in the UN. No one can say she didn't follow his direction or rolled over.

Third, Haley has the media and big business in her corner. The others were not pro-business like Haley. Once again she would not be running against a Obama or Clinton, great speakers, but Biden. Biden's track record with Business is bad. The media doesn't even like him.

Fourth, age. Haley is younger than either Biden or Trump. She can really hit him on the age issue. Trump, not as much.

Finally, nobody has more baggage than Trump. Haley has some issues, but nothing compared to either Biden or Trump. There are ALOT of independents looking for somebody to vote for that in not Trump or Biden.

So, I think she stands a good shot at pulling it off. I think Trump's polls is setting up the GOP. I can't see him getting to the election or if he does even being on all the ballots.
She has no shot. People can easily see through her bs, she is a raging neo con who wants us to keep fighting pointless wars.
FLBear5630
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ABC123 said:

FLBear5630 said:

GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
First, she was a successful Governor. (Only Romney was and came closest to winning). Romney was running against Obama who was a good speaker and had the metrics working in his favor. Biden is not a good speaker and the metrics suck.

Second, Haley was a loyal (some would say one of the most loyal) Trump Cabinet Members. She literally went to war with China and Russia for Trump in the UN. No one can say she didn't follow his direction or rolled over.

Third, Haley has the media and big business in her corner. The others were not pro-business like Haley. Once again she would not be running against a Obama or Clinton, great speakers, but Biden. Biden's track record with Business is bad. The media doesn't even like him.

Fourth, age. Haley is younger than either Biden or Trump. She can really hit him on the age issue. Trump, not as much.

Finally, nobody has more baggage than Trump. Haley has some issues, but nothing compared to either Biden or Trump. There are ALOT of independents looking for somebody to vote for that in not Trump or Biden.

So, I think she stands a good shot at pulling it off. I think Trump's polls is setting up the GOP. I can't see him getting to the election or if he does even being on all the ballots.
She has no shot. People can easily see through her bs, she is a raging neo con who wants us to keep fighting pointless wars.
She has no shot with you. She may have no shot with the Baylor Univ message board. But, she has a damn good shot with the rest of the Nation, at least the middle 60% cohort of voters. More than enough to win. Keep throwing around the Bannon "Buzz Words", somebody outside your circle may believe it.
Redbrickbear
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FLBear5630 said:

ABC123 said:

FLBear5630 said:

GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
First, she was a successful Governor. (Only Romney was and came closest to winning). Romney was running against Obama who was a good speaker and had the metrics working in his favor. Biden is not a good speaker and the metrics suck.

Second, Haley was a loyal (some would say one of the most loyal) Trump Cabinet Members. She literally went to war with China and Russia for Trump in the UN. No one can say she didn't follow his direction or rolled over.

Third, Haley has the media and big business in her corner. The others were not pro-business like Haley. Once again she would not be running against a Obama or Clinton, great speakers, but Biden. Biden's track record with Business is bad. The media doesn't even like him.

Fourth, age. Haley is younger than either Biden or Trump. She can really hit him on the age issue. Trump, not as much.

Finally, nobody has more baggage than Trump. Haley has some issues, but nothing compared to either Biden or Trump. There are ALOT of independents looking for somebody to vote for that in not Trump or Biden.

So, I think she stands a good shot at pulling it off. I think Trump's polls is setting up the GOP. I can't see him getting to the election or if he does even being on all the ballots.
She has no shot. People can easily see through her bs, she is a raging neo con who wants us to keep fighting pointless wars.
She has no shot with you. She may have no shot with the Baylor Univ message board. But, she has a damn good shot with the rest of the Nation, at least the middle 60% cohort of voters. More than enough to win. Keep throwing around the Bannon "Buzz Words", somebody outside your circle may believe it.

I doubt it.

She is like John McCain in a skirt.

She would get the big business & establishment Republican voters. Dems would NOT cross over and vote for her in a general election. MAGA types would just stay home.

She would lose a general election by several points.

McCain lost the 2008 election by a margin of 52.9% to 45.7%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election

2024 election with Nikki as the front runner would play out in a similar manner...maybe a little closer since Biden is so unpopular...but still a loss.

I am very open to the idea that the GOP needs to move beyond Trump....but moving back to Bush-McCain-Romney type republicanism (invade the world/invite the world/cut corporate tax rates) is a dead end and that is what Nikki represents.
Whiskey Pete
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FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
So does that same line of thinking mean since that Biden, the democrats, the media and every other liberal are railing against Trump because it shows they fear him and he has a real shot and think he may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Biden?
Whiskey Pete
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GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
The GOP establishment is out of touch with their supporters. They have been for years. Once reason Trump won in '16.

Trump isn't the cause of the division in the GOP, he's the result of it.
Whiskey Pete
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FLBear5630 said:

GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
First, she was a successful Governor. (Only Romney was and came closest to winning). Romney was running against Obama who was a good speaker and had the metrics working in his favor. Biden is not a good speaker and the metrics suck. She was successful at recruiting Chinese companies to S. Carolina and selling and giving land to the Chinese. And no, she wasn't as successful as you proclaim, almost half of her vetoes were overridden by the state legislature. Her political positions bend with the wind. She was anti-Trump until she was offered a gig by Trump. Now, she's anti-Trump again.

Second, Haley was a loyal (some would say one of the most loyal) Trump Cabinet Members. She literally went to war with China and Russia for Trump in the UN. No one can say she didn't follow his direction or rolled over.

Third, Haley has the media and big business in her corner. The others were not pro-business like Haley. Once again she would not be running against a Obama or Clinton, great speakers, but Biden. Biden's track record with Business is bad. The media doesn't even like him. If the liberal media is in her corner, that should make any honest conservative wary.

Fourth, age. Haley is younger than either Biden or Trump. She can really hit him on the age issue. Trump, not as much. Trump doesn't need to hit Biden on age. He can Biden with his own record.

Finally, nobody has more baggage than Trump. Haley has some issues, but nothing compared to either Biden or Trump. There are ALOT of independents looking for somebody to vote for that in not Trump or Biden. Don't disagree with this, but his baggage is not enough to keep me from voting for Trump if he wins the primary.

So, I think she stands a good shot at pulling it off. I think Trump's polls is setting up the GOP. I can't see him getting to the election or if he does even being on all the ballots. She's an establishment Republican. Real conservatives do not like her, do not trust her and do not believe her.
The real answer should be Ron DeSantis.
Whiskey Pete
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ABC123 said:

FLBear5630 said:

GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
First, she was a successful Governor. (Only Romney was and came closest to winning). Romney was running against Obama who was a good speaker and had the metrics working in his favor. Biden is not a good speaker and the metrics suck.

Second, Haley was a loyal (some would say one of the most loyal) Trump Cabinet Members. She literally went to war with China and Russia for Trump in the UN. No one can say she didn't follow his direction or rolled over.

Third, Haley has the media and big business in her corner. The others were not pro-business like Haley. Once again she would not be running against a Obama or Clinton, great speakers, but Biden. Biden's track record with Business is bad. The media doesn't even like him.

Fourth, age. Haley is younger than either Biden or Trump. She can really hit him on the age issue. Trump, not as much.

Finally, nobody has more baggage than Trump. Haley has some issues, but nothing compared to either Biden or Trump. There are ALOT of independents looking for somebody to vote for that in not Trump or Biden.

So, I think she stands a good shot at pulling it off. I think Trump's polls is setting up the GOP. I can't see him getting to the election or if he does even being on all the ballots.
She has no shot. People can easily see through her bs, she is a raging neo con who wants us to keep fighting pointless wars.
She can't be trusted
Whiskey Pete
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FLBear5630 said:

ABC123 said:

FLBear5630 said:

GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
First, she was a successful Governor. (Only Romney was and came closest to winning). Romney was running against Obama who was a good speaker and had the metrics working in his favor. Biden is not a good speaker and the metrics suck.

Second, Haley was a loyal (some would say one of the most loyal) Trump Cabinet Members. She literally went to war with China and Russia for Trump in the UN. No one can say she didn't follow his direction or rolled over.

Third, Haley has the media and big business in her corner. The others were not pro-business like Haley. Once again she would not be running against a Obama or Clinton, great speakers, but Biden. Biden's track record with Business is bad. The media doesn't even like him.

Fourth, age. Haley is younger than either Biden or Trump. She can really hit him on the age issue. Trump, not as much.

Finally, nobody has more baggage than Trump. Haley has some issues, but nothing compared to either Biden or Trump. There are ALOT of independents looking for somebody to vote for that in not Trump or Biden.

So, I think she stands a good shot at pulling it off. I think Trump's polls is setting up the GOP. I can't see him getting to the election or if he does even being on all the ballots.
She has no shot. People can easily see through her bs, she is a raging neo con who wants us to keep fighting pointless wars.
She has no shot with you. She may have no shot with the Baylor Univ message board. But, she has a damn good shot with the rest of the Nation, at least the middle 60% cohort of voters. More than enough to win. Keep throwing around the Bannon "Buzz Words", somebody outside your circle may believe it.
If she's so star spangled awesome, you would think she'd be polling higher among those nasty freedom loving conservatives.
Whiskey Pete
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Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ABC123 said:

FLBear5630 said:

GrowlTowel said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
We are on the same page. Let's not make any mistakes, I think we all agree the Dems are basically trainwrecks and Biden is the lead engineer. We are quibbling over which GOP nominee would be able to win and govern.

First will Trump even be on all the ballots? Second, is what we are seeing his ceiling or floor? If he wins, can he get anything done.

As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
Honest question - How is Haley any different than McCain, Romney, or Dole? The GOP has floated the Haley candidates for years with zero success.
First, she was a successful Governor. (Only Romney was and came closest to winning). Romney was running against Obama who was a good speaker and had the metrics working in his favor. Biden is not a good speaker and the metrics suck.

Second, Haley was a loyal (some would say one of the most loyal) Trump Cabinet Members. She literally went to war with China and Russia for Trump in the UN. No one can say she didn't follow his direction or rolled over.

Third, Haley has the media and big business in her corner. The others were not pro-business like Haley. Once again she would not be running against a Obama or Clinton, great speakers, but Biden. Biden's track record with Business is bad. The media doesn't even like him.

Fourth, age. Haley is younger than either Biden or Trump. She can really hit him on the age issue. Trump, not as much.

Finally, nobody has more baggage than Trump. Haley has some issues, but nothing compared to either Biden or Trump. There are ALOT of independents looking for somebody to vote for that in not Trump or Biden.

So, I think she stands a good shot at pulling it off. I think Trump's polls is setting up the GOP. I can't see him getting to the election or if he does even being on all the ballots.
She has no shot. People can easily see through her bs, she is a raging neo con who wants us to keep fighting pointless wars.
She has no shot with you. She may have no shot with the Baylor Univ message board. But, she has a damn good shot with the rest of the Nation, at least the middle 60% cohort of voters. More than enough to win. Keep throwing around the Bannon "Buzz Words", somebody outside your circle may believe it.

I doubt it.

She is like John McCain in a skirt.

She would get the big business & establishment Republican voters. Dems would NOT cross over and vote for her in a general election. MAGA types would just stay home.

She would lose a general election by several points.

McCain lost the 2008 election by a margin of 52.9% to 45.7%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election

2024 election with Nikki as the front runner would play out in a similar manner...maybe a little closer since Biden is so unpopular...but still a loss.

I am very open to the idea that the GOP needs to move beyond Trump....but moving back to Bush-McCain-Romney type republicanism (invade the world/invite the world/cut corporate tax rates) is a dead end and that is what Nikki represents.
Well said. And true.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
So does that same line of thinking mean since that Biden, the democrats, the media and every other liberal are railing against Trump because it shows they fear him and he has a real shot and think he may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Biden?
Definitely. They fear him getting in the White House even more because he would use the Fed on them. He is not above that. He would do it and gloat about it. So, absolutely.

The problem with Trump, in my opinion, is that is all we would do for four years. But, the great thing about elections is their will be a winner crowned and we will get to see who is right or wrong.
Whiskey Pete
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
So does that same line of thinking mean since that Biden, the democrats, the media and every other liberal are railing against Trump because it shows they fear him and he has a real shot and think he may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Biden?
Definitely. They fear him getting in the White House even more because he would use the Fed on them. He is not above that. He would do it and gloat about it. So, absolutely.

The problem with Trump, in my opinion, is that is all we would do for four years. But, the great thing about elections is their will be a winner crowned and we will get to see who is right or wrong.
Kind of like how Biden is using the Fed on people?
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
So does that same line of thinking mean since that Biden, the democrats, the media and every other liberal are railing against Trump because it shows they fear him and he has a real shot and think he may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Biden?
Definitely. They fear him getting in the White House even more because he would use the Fed on them. He is not above that. He would do it and gloat about it. So, absolutely.

The problem with Trump, in my opinion, is that is all we would do for four years. But, the great thing about elections is their will be a winner crowned and we will get to see who is right or wrong.
Kind of like how Biden is using the Fed on people?
Yes, I should have said "He is not above turnabout is fair play..."
Whiskey Pete
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
So does that same line of thinking mean since that Biden, the democrats, the media and every other liberal are railing against Trump because it shows they fear him and he has a real shot and think he may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Biden?
Definitely. They fear him getting in the White House even more because he would use the Fed on them. He is not above that. He would do it and gloat about it. So, absolutely.

The problem with Trump, in my opinion, is that is all we would do for four years. But, the great thing about elections is their will be a winner crowned and we will get to see who is right or wrong.
Kind of like how Biden is using the Fed on people?
Yes, I should have said "He is not above turnabout is fair play..."
We'll see. Trump's previous 4 years showed that he didn't have a propensity to go after his political opponents by weaponizing federal agencies against them on trumped on charges. Hell, he didn't go after Hillary Clinton even though she wholeheartedly deserved it.

But let's be honest, there are plenty of DC insiders that deserve investigations, charges and indictments. Insiders that have been skating along scot-free for far too long, that haven't been held accountable for their illegal actions. If Trump wins the primary and he actually tries to root out the pond scum, then more power to him.

I have my doubts though. He didn't "drain the swamp" the first go-round, I have little reason to believe he'd do it this time.

I'm not a Trump "fan" or a Trump hater. Yep, I'd vote for him in the general if he's the nominee, but I'm sure as hell not voting for him the primary. I'd rather see DeSantis be the nominee
historian
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Trump has already proven he's a better leader than Biden. One only needs to look at their respective records on the economy, national security, foreign relations in general, energy, social policy, appointments, and much else besides. Anyone who would vote for Biden over Trump is a fool, a narrow minded bigot and hater, or just plain nuts.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
FLBear5630
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Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Whiskey Pete said:

FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Maybe, maybe not
On this we agree. Once the Primaries actually happen and we see votes, not just polls or new stories we will know how strong Trump really is. My fear is he wins the nomination and then the door slams leaving the GOP hustling to make up ground.

In 2016 everyone was certain that Trump had no chance of winning.


This is not the 2016 Trump coming down the escalator. This is a post-2020 Trump saying if he wins he will get everyone that wronged him. Too much water under the bridge. The media and Dems have not even started hitting him, that will come after he is the Nominee.



I honeslty don't disagree with your critique.

Against any generic Dem I think Trump would be at a 5 point electoral disadvantage.

But against Biden? I think it's a dead heat

Biden is historically unpopular as President. I mean he was never even that popular as a national politician in the first place
As for Haley, the fact Bannon is publicly railing against her shows me he fears her. She has a real shot and I think she may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Trump. It will be a bulldozer vs diplomacy tact.
So does that same line of thinking mean since that Biden, the democrats, the media and every other liberal are railing against Trump because it shows they fear him and he has a real shot and think he may be able to actually get things done more effectively than Biden?
Definitely. They fear him getting in the White House even more because he would use the Fed on them. He is not above that. He would do it and gloat about it. So, absolutely.

The problem with Trump, in my opinion, is that is all we would do for four years. But, the great thing about elections is their will be a winner crowned and we will get to see who is right or wrong.
Kind of like how Biden is using the Fed on people?
Yes, I should have said "He is not above turnabout is fair play..."
We'll see. Trump's previous 4 years showed that he didn't have a propensity to go after his political opponents by weaponizing federal agencies against them on trumped on charges. Hell, he didn't go after Hillary Clinton even though she wholeheartedly deserved it.

But let's be honest, there are plenty of DC insiders that deserve investigations, charges and indictments. Insiders that have been skating along scot-free for far too long, that haven't been held accountable for their illegal actions. If Trump wins the primary and he actually tries to root out the pond scum, then more power to him.

I have my doubts though. He didn't "drain the swamp" the first go-round, I have little reason to believe he'd do it this time.

I'm not a Trump "fan" or a Trump hater. Yep, I'd vote for him in the general if he's the nominee, but I'm sure as hell not voting for him the primary. I'd rather see DeSantis be the nominee
You are correct in that he didn't go after Hilary. I think because of that and what he is now going through, he will be Hell of Wheels. For a reality show, it would be a blast. From Governing and competing with China not so much.

I voted Trump twice. If it is him and Biden, I will again. But now is the time to voice opinions and give reasons. Once the Nominee is named, it is time to defend and attach Biden.
ATL Bear
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Whiskey Pete said:

ATL Bear said:

Whiskey Pete said:

KaiBear said:

historian said:

I tend to think they are here for nefarious purposes from the beginning. Their decision to come here was not just to work, at least not all of them. The bigger question is who is helping them and why. Biden has essentially given the drug cartels control of our border, whether intentionally or not. But is the Chinese government part of the reason so many thousands of their citizens are coming? If so, why? Is Iran or some other Islamofascist regime sending thousands from the Middle East and again, why? These are very serious and legitimate questions and I do not know if anyone is even trying to answer them. Do we easily want another 9-11 because the potential exists.

Biden & our corrupt intelligence forces seem more interested in targeting Americans who disagree with any part of their radical & evil agenda.


Our citizens still do not fully comprehend what is happening along our border.

It is an invasion.

The ramifications of which are only now beginning to be felt.

Biden has encouraged this invasion with the implied message throughout central and South America

' We will provide all of your needs. Free. '
And yet, you're content with Biden (or whichever progressive democrat) walking right back into the White House instead of voting for the orange boogeyman, should he win the nomination.

You'll share just as much blame as the people you'll fault for voting Trump in the primary.
This is like a child blaming the stove after being burned by it despite being told multiple times it is hot. Some lessons are learned the hard way. If people are dumb enough to support Trump at this point, what can be said?
So who's to blame for a liberal progressive woke democrat walking back into the White House? The people that voted for Trump in the primary or the people that refuse to vote for Trump in the general?

I guess some people hate Trump more than they love America.

It's more like a child burning themselves on the stove and the parent being angry at being ignored, refuses to take the child for medical help.
Anyone that loves America isn't casting a vote at anytime for Joe Biden or Donald Trump.

And maybe some people built their lives, families, and futures around principles and opportunities not dependent upon who is in the Whitehouse.
FLBear5630
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ATL Bear said:

Whiskey Pete said:

ATL Bear said:

Whiskey Pete said:

KaiBear said:

historian said:

I tend to think they are here for nefarious purposes from the beginning. Their decision to come here was not just to work, at least not all of them. The bigger question is who is helping them and why. Biden has essentially given the drug cartels control of our border, whether intentionally or not. But is the Chinese government part of the reason so many thousands of their citizens are coming? If so, why? Is Iran or some other Islamofascist regime sending thousands from the Middle East and again, why? These are very serious and legitimate questions and I do not know if anyone is even trying to answer them. Do we easily want another 9-11 because the potential exists.

Biden & our corrupt intelligence forces seem more interested in targeting Americans who disagree with any part of their radical & evil agenda.


Our citizens still do not fully comprehend what is happening along our border.

It is an invasion.

The ramifications of which are only now beginning to be felt.

Biden has encouraged this invasion with the implied message throughout central and South America

' We will provide all of your needs. Free. '
And yet, you're content with Biden (or whichever progressive democrat) walking right back into the White House instead of voting for the orange boogeyman, should he win the nomination.

You'll share just as much blame as the people you'll fault for voting Trump in the primary.
This is like a child blaming the stove after being burned by it despite being told multiple times it is hot. Some lessons are learned the hard way. If people are dumb enough to support Trump at this point, what can be said?
So who's to blame for a liberal progressive woke democrat walking back into the White House? The people that voted for Trump in the primary or the people that refuse to vote for Trump in the general?

I guess some people hate Trump more than they love America.

It's more like a child burning themselves on the stove and the parent being angry at being ignored, refuses to take the child for medical help.
Anyone that loves America isn't casting a vote at anytime for Joe Biden or Donald Trump.

And maybe some people built their lives, families, and futures around principles and opportunities not dependent upon who is in the Whitehouse.


I am starting to think a Parliamentary system is better, the two Party system is producing not only a limited number of Candidates but is easier to corrupt. If we are down to Biden/Trump again, that is depressing.
Realitybites
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ATL Bear said:

And maybe some people built their lives, families, and futures around principles and opportunities not dependent upon who is in the Whitehouse.


You can try to do that but when the national government devalues your citizenship through the mass uncontrolled immigration of unvetted, criminal, sometimes unhealthy illegal aliens and devalues the currency you earn and save in it is hard to do. If that weren't enough, legal, journalistic, and academic termites are undermining the very language we speak and exchange information in.

...and yes, the parliamentary system would be better than the constitutional system we abandoned by eliminating the ability of state legislatures select senators. This effectively put the senate for sale to the highest bidder, trading loyalty to the states for loyalty to the bribes paid by MNCs.
Whiskey Pete
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ATL Bear said:

Whiskey Pete said:

ATL Bear said:

Whiskey Pete said:

KaiBear said:

historian said:

I tend to think they are here for nefarious purposes from the beginning. Their decision to come here was not just to work, at least not all of them. The bigger question is who is helping them and why. Biden has essentially given the drug cartels control of our border, whether intentionally or not. But is the Chinese government part of the reason so many thousands of their citizens are coming? If so, why? Is Iran or some other Islamofascist regime sending thousands from the Middle East and again, why? These are very serious and legitimate questions and I do not know if anyone is even trying to answer them. Do we easily want another 9-11 because the potential exists.

Biden & our corrupt intelligence forces seem more interested in targeting Americans who disagree with any part of their radical & evil agenda.


Our citizens still do not fully comprehend what is happening along our border.

It is an invasion.

The ramifications of which are only now beginning to be felt.

Biden has encouraged this invasion with the implied message throughout central and South America

' We will provide all of your needs. Free. '
And yet, you're content with Biden (or whichever progressive democrat) walking right back into the White House instead of voting for the orange boogeyman, should he win the nomination.

You'll share just as much blame as the people you'll fault for voting Trump in the primary.
This is like a child blaming the stove after being burned by it despite being told multiple times it is hot. Some lessons are learned the hard way. If people are dumb enough to support Trump at this point, what can be said?
So who's to blame for a liberal progressive woke democrat walking back into the White House? The people that voted for Trump in the primary or the people that refuse to vote for Trump in the general?

I guess some people hate Trump more than they love America.

It's more like a child burning themselves on the stove and the parent being angry at being ignored, refuses to take the child for medical help.
Anyone that loves America isn't casting a vote at anytime for Joe Biden or Donald Trump.

And maybe some people built their lives, families, and futures around principles and opportunities not dependent upon who is in the Whitehouse.
So who's to blame for a liberal progressive woke democrat walking back into the White House? The people that voted for Trump in the primary or the people that refuse to vote for Trump in the general?
ATL Bear
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Realitybites said:

ATL Bear said:

And maybe some people built their lives, families, and futures around principles and opportunities not dependent upon who is in the Whitehouse.


You can try to do that but when the national government devalues your citizenship through the mass uncontrolled immigration of unvetted, criminal, sometimes unhealthy illegal aliens and devalues the currency you earn and save in it is hard to do. If that weren't enough, legal, journalistic, and academic termites are undermining the very language we speak and exchange information in.

...and yes, the parliamentary system would be better than the constitutional system we abandoned by eliminating the ability of state legislatures select senators. This effectively put the senate for sale to the highest bidder, trading loyalty to the states for loyalty to the bribes paid by MNCs.
Just curious. What other citizenship and currency do you believe is more valuable than the United States and the dollar?

I've been preaching on a parliamentary system for awhile. We concentrated too much authority in the executive branch.
FLBear5630
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ATL Bear said:

Realitybites said:

ATL Bear said:

And maybe some people built their lives, families, and futures around principles and opportunities not dependent upon who is in the Whitehouse.


You can try to do that but when the national government devalues your citizenship through the mass uncontrolled immigration of unvetted, criminal, sometimes unhealthy illegal aliens and devalues the currency you earn and save in it is hard to do. If that weren't enough, legal, journalistic, and academic termites are undermining the very language we speak and exchange information in.

...and yes, the parliamentary system would be better than the constitutional system we abandoned by eliminating the ability of state legislatures select senators. This effectively put the senate for sale to the highest bidder, trading loyalty to the states for loyalty to the bribes paid by MNCs.
Just curious. What other citizenship and currency do you believe is more valuable than the United States and the dollar?

I've been preaching on a parliamentary system for awhile. We concentrated too much authority in the executive branch.
I am coming around. We are becoming too polarized for a 2 Party system. All we are doing is playing ping pong, wasting money and not building on anything.
muddybrazos
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ATL Bear said:

Realitybites said:

ATL Bear said:

And maybe some people built their lives, families, and futures around principles and opportunities not dependent upon who is in the Whitehouse.


You can try to do that but when the national government devalues your citizenship through the mass uncontrolled immigration of unvetted, criminal, sometimes unhealthy illegal aliens and devalues the currency you earn and save in it is hard to do. If that weren't enough, legal, journalistic, and academic termites are undermining the very language we speak and exchange information in.

...and yes, the parliamentary system would be better than the constitutional system we abandoned by eliminating the ability of state legislatures select senators. This effectively put the senate for sale to the highest bidder, trading loyalty to the states for loyalty to the bribes paid by MNCs.
Just curious. What other citizenship and currency do you believe is more valuable than the United States and the dollar?

I've been preaching on a parliamentary system for awhile. We concentrated too much authority in the executive branch.
Cayman islands and Bitcoin
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