Netanyahu said "we are at war,"

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Redbrickbear
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Harrison Bergeron said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.

The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.

The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.

I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
You're delusional.

What rights to Arabs have in Israel?
Do any Arabs serve in the Knesset?
What is average standard of living for an Arab in Israel?

What rights to Jews have in Palestinian-controlled lands?
Do any Jews serve in the Palestinian-controlled governments?
What is average standard of living for a Jew in Palestinian-controlled lands?

Buddy this question makes nonsense.

Though I know you thinks its clever.

The 500,000+ Jewish settlers in the West Bank don't allow themselves to ever be placed under Palestinian civil authority. Heck they won't even allow Palestinians to have a State at all.

The Palestinian authority itself only has LIMITED authority over the area anyway...basically what authority the Israeli military will let them have and ONLY over local arabs and never over ethnic Jews.

Its the Jews in the area who segregate themselves off in armed settlements and will never allow themselves to be governed by anyone but other Jews in Israel.

[About 6.8 million Jewish Israelis and 6.8 million Palestinians live today between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River, an area encompassing Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT), the latter made up of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. Throughout most of this area, Israel is the sole governing power; in the remainder, it exercises primary authority alongside limited Palestinian self-rule. Across these areas and in most aspects of life, Israeli authorities methodically privilege Jewish Israelis and discriminate against Palestinians. Laws, policies, and statements by leading Israeli officials make plain that the objective of maintaining Jewish Israeli control over demographics, political power, and land has long guided government policy. In pursuit of this goal, authorities have dispossessed, confined, forcibly separated, and subjugated Palestinians by virtue of their identity to varying degrees of intensity. ]


https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution





ShooterTX
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Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.

The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.

The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.

I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
You're delusional.

What rights to Arabs have in Israel?
Do any Arabs serve in the Knesset?
What is average standard of living for an Arab in Israel?

What rights to Jews have in Palestinian-controlled lands?
Do any Jews serve in the Palestinian-controlled governments?
What is average standard of living for a Jew in Palestinian-controlled lands?



Its the Jews in the area who segregate themselves off in armed settlements and will never allow themselves to be governed by anyone but other Jews in Israel.


So you are completely unaware that there are Palestinian Arabs in the Knesset? That there are Arabs serving as judges & police in Israel? And yes, the Arab judges are allowed to rule over Jews in courts in Israel?

It's amazing how almost nothing you say on this subject is accurate.
ShooterTX
Redbrickbear
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ShooterTX said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.

The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.

The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.

I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
You're delusional.

What rights to Arabs have in Israel?
Do any Arabs serve in the Knesset?
What is average standard of living for an Arab in Israel?

What rights to Jews have in Palestinian-controlled lands?
Do any Jews serve in the Palestinian-controlled governments?
What is average standard of living for a Jew in Palestinian-controlled lands?



Its the Jews in the area who segregate themselves off in armed settlements and will never allow themselves to be governed by anyone but other Jews in Israel.


So you are completely unaware that there are Palestinian Arabs in the Knesset? .


Completely aware

You also must be aware that the Arabs allow themselves to be citizens of Israel

The Jews don't agree to be under the authority of the Palestinians (or even let a Palestinian state exist)

PS

I'm also interested in hearing why Arabs account for 21% of the population of Israel yet the State does not let in more Arabs via immigration (only Jews) or why the Israeli government only has 10 non-Jewish members of the 120 member Knesset

Should they not have many more seats?

Should they not also get to have their own people immigrate in?
Aliceinbubbleland
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Where is Biden's Red Line? Our bombs killed 43 supposedly innocents
FLBear5630
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Redbrickbear said:

ShooterTX said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.

The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.

The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.

I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
You're delusional.

What rights to Arabs have in Israel?
Do any Arabs serve in the Knesset?
What is average standard of living for an Arab in Israel?

What rights to Jews have in Palestinian-controlled lands?
Do any Jews serve in the Palestinian-controlled governments?
What is average standard of living for a Jew in Palestinian-controlled lands?



Its the Jews in the area who segregate themselves off in armed settlements and will never allow themselves to be governed by anyone but other Jews in Israel.


So you are completely unaware that there are Palestinian Arabs in the Knesset? .


Completely aware

You also must be aware that the Arabs allow themselves to be citizens of Israel

The Jews don't agree to be under the authority of the Palestinians (or even let a Palestinian state exist)

PS

I'm also interested in hearing why Arabs account for 21% of the population of Israel yet the State does not let in more Arabs via immigration (only Jews) or why the Israeli government only has 10 non-Jewish members of the 120 member Knesset

Should they not have many more seats?

Should they not also get to have their own people immigrate in?


You also must be aware that the Arabs allow themselves to be citizens of Israel: Their choice.

The Jews don't agree to be under the authority of the Palestinians (or even let a Palestinian state exist): That is why they have Israel, to have a JEWISH State. If an Israeli wants to move to Gaza or Rafa or someother Palestinian controlled area, that is their choice.

I'm also interested in hearing why Arabs account for 21% of the population of Israel yet the State does not let in more Arabs via immigration (only Jews): Each Sovereign (like it or not Israel is a Sovereign nation) has their own immigration laws. Once again, Israel was created to be a JEWISH State, so giving precedence to Jews is consistent with their mission and Constitution. Nobody hid that fact that Israel was a Jewish State when created. Non-Jews can naturalize after 3 years, renounce former citizenship and demonstrate proficiency in Hebrew

Why the Israeli government only has 10 non-Jewish members of the 120 member Knesset: Because it is a Jewish State.

Should they not have many more seats?

Should they not also get to have their own people immigrate in? No, it is a Jewish State created to give Jews a home. Get it. Nobody hid anything about what Israel was when created. If you are Jewish you will get treated one way, if not another. Why the Arabs would want to be there is beyond me. Go to Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan...
Redbrickbear
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FLBear5630 said:

Redbrickbear said:

ShooterTX said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.

The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.

The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.

I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
You're delusional.

What rights to Arabs have in Israel?
Do any Arabs serve in the Knesset?
What is average standard of living for an Arab in Israel?

What rights to Jews have in Palestinian-controlled lands?
Do any Jews serve in the Palestinian-controlled governments?
What is average standard of living for a Jew in Palestinian-controlled lands?



Its the Jews in the area who segregate themselves off in armed settlements and will never allow themselves to be governed by anyone but other Jews in Israel.


So you are completely unaware that there are Palestinian Arabs in the Knesset? .


Completely aware

You also must be aware that the Arabs allow themselves to be citizens of Israel

The Jews don't agree to be under the authority of the Palestinians (or even let a Palestinian state exist)

PS

I'm also interested in hearing why Arabs account for 21% of the population of Israel yet the State does not let in more Arabs via immigration (only Jews) or why the Israeli government only has 10 non-Jewish members of the 120 member Knesset

Should they not have many more seats?

Should they not also get to have their own people immigrate in?


You also must be aware that the Arabs allow themselves to be citizens of Israel: Their choice.

The Jews don't agree to be under the authority of the Palestinians (or even let a Palestinian state exist): That is why they have Israel, to have a JEWISH State. If an Israeli wants to move to Gaza or Rafa or someother Palestinian controlled area, that is their choice.

I'm also interested in hearing why Arabs account for 21% of the population of Israel yet the State does not let in more Arabs via immigration (only Jews): Each Sovereign (like it or not Israel is a Sovereign nation) has their own immigration laws. Once again, Israel was created to be a JEWISH State, so giving precedence to Jews is consistent with their mission and Constitution. Nobody hid that fact that Israel was a Jewish State when created. Non-Jews can naturalize after 3 years, renounce former citizenship and demonstrate proficiency in Hebrew

Why the Israeli government only has 10 non-Jewish members of the 120 member Knesset: Because it is a Jewish State.

Should they not have many more seats?

Should they not also get to have their own people immigrate in? No, it is a Jewish State created to give Jews a home.


I think you have made it pretty clear that modern Israel is a racial-ethno State that barley tolerates its Arab minority

Question… do other peoples on earth get racial-ethno states as well?
historian
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Arabs live in Israel because they are better off there than any Arab state: more rights as citizens, more economic opportunities.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
ShooterTX
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Redbrickbear said:

ShooterTX said:

Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.

The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.

The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.

I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
You're delusional.

What rights to Arabs have in Israel?
Do any Arabs serve in the Knesset?
What is average standard of living for an Arab in Israel?

What rights to Jews have in Palestinian-controlled lands?
Do any Jews serve in the Palestinian-controlled governments?
What is average standard of living for a Jew in Palestinian-controlled lands?



Its the Jews in the area who segregate themselves off in armed settlements and will never allow themselves to be governed by anyone but other Jews in Israel.


So you are completely unaware that there are Palestinian Arabs in the Knesset? .


Completely aware

You also must be aware that the Arabs allow themselves to be citizens of Israel

The Jews don't agree to be under the authority of the Palestinians (or even let a Palestinian state exist)

PS

I'm also interested in hearing why Arabs account for 21% of the population of Israel yet the State does not let in more Arabs via immigration (only Jews) or why the Israeli government only has 10 non-Jewish members of the 120 member Knesset

Should they not have many more seats?

Should they not also get to have their own people immigrate in?



Perhaps you are unaware, but most nations have very strict rules & procedures for allowing immigrants into their nation. America has lost it's way and it's mind when it comes to immigration.

Israel limits Arab immigration because they do not want to become a minority in the only Jewish safe land on the planet.

This is also an answer to your other question.... there are only a few Arab members because only a few won their elections. Members are elected, not appointed.

Why would the Israelis want more Arabs when it is Arabs who have openly called for the genocide of the Jews? Only a foolish nation (like the US) would allow any & all Arabs to immigrate (or invade) their lands.

Arabs control more than 20 nations in the region... there is no reason for them to be in Israel... or America.
ShooterTX
J.R.
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sombear said:

J.R. said:

Turns out that the 45 who were killed and children burned to death was at the hand of our bombs. Time to cut those Mfer's off in ALL aid. They can fin for themselves as far as I'm concerned. We can reengage when they make serious changes including a brand new govt. Until then, no thanks.
What you mean to say was "at the hands of Hamas' own bombs, rockets, and weapons, which should not have been anywhere near that area."
No, I meant what I said. Those missiles that killed 45 innocent civilian were made by Boeing . Cut them off.
whiterock
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.

The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.

The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.

I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
Every time I say this, people blow a gasket, but it is nonetheless true: sometimes, there is no middle ground and conflict will only end when one side loses and the other one wins.

The Palestinians, at 80-90% rates (depending on how the question is phrased), are not interested in living in peace as equals with Jews (or any other faith, for that matter). Jews are willing to live in peace alongside Palestinians (and do) as long as it is in a Jewish state. There really isn't any middle ground between the two propositions. As long as Hamas continues to attack Israel, Israel is going to continue to make Gaza unlivable with the implicit aim of forcing them to leave. There is no other path to peace.

To understand the intractability of the situation, one must come to grips with islamic worldview. The purpose of social contract in islam is to promote and defend shariah as law of the land. Islam is structurally intolerant of infidels, stridently so, particularly in majority islamic lands. Islam views loss of control of islamic lands to other faiths as supreme indignity, intolerable outrage. They'd rather die as jihadis than agree to it. THAT'S the root cause of this conflict.

Very hard for Americans to understand there is just isn't any pathway to lasting peace here. Just an ongoing war that will wax and wane hotter or colder between cease fires.....until one side wins and the other loses. Once one understands that, the most humane course of action is obvious. Israel is pursuing it.
Realitybites
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whiterock said:

To understand the intractability of the situation, one must come to grips with islamic worldview. The purpose of social contract in islam is to promote and defend shariah as law of the land. Islam is structurally intolerant of infidels, stridently so, particularly in majority islamic lands. Islam views loss of control of islamic lands to other faiths as supreme indignity, intolerable outrage. They'd rather die as jihadis than agree to it. THAT'S the root cause of this conflict.


No doubt about that, and it's been the root cause of conflict between Muslims and every other people group they came across for a millenium and a half.

However, the opportunity to put an end to that threat at the end of World War I with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire has passed. A wise strategy would have been to march into Mecca and raze it to the ground.

The half century long technological advantage that opened in the first half of the 20th century between western powers and their islamic adverseries is rapidly closing, if it hasn't already. Furthermore, they are outbreeding us, and our rapidly secularzing culture has lost its way.

Israel has to come to terms with the fact that it is surrounded by intractable enemies, is severely outnumbered, and the military advantage they had over their neighbors is closing.
nein51
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Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

To understand the intractability of the situation, one must come to grips with islamic worldview. The purpose of social contract in islam is to promote and defend shariah as law of the land. Islam is structurally intolerant of infidels, stridently so, particularly in majority islamic lands. Islam views loss of control of islamic lands to other faiths as supreme indignity, intolerable outrage. They'd rather die as jihadis than agree to it. THAT'S the root cause of this conflict.


No doubt about that, and it's been the root cause of conflict between Muslims and every other people group they came across for a millenium and a half.

However, the opportunity to put an end to that threat at the end of World War I with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire has passed. A wise strategy would have been to march into Mecca and raze it to the ground.

The half century long technological advantage that opened in the first half of the 20th century between western powers and their islamic adverseries is rapidly closing, if it hasn't already. Furthermore, they are outbreeding us, and our rapidly secularzing culture has lost its way.

Israel has to come to terms with the fact that it is surrounded by intractable enemies, is severely outnumbered, and the military advantage they had over their neighbors is closing.

It really isn't though because most of the Muslim world is becoming more Westernized whether they like it or not and they hate the Palestinians just as much as everyone else because unrest is not good for them. There is a reason you don't see Egypt, Saudi, Jordan taking in Palestinians in large numbers. Because they know the problems.
Osodecentx
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whiterock said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

Back in the '70's I worked with a Jewish woman and a Palestinian refugee in our LA offices. Every day at work was miserable as those two snipped at each other endlessly.

The Palestinian opened my eyes as to how his homeland was occupied and he was forced to flee what is now Israel without his family as a child. He was a reasonable and intelligent young person. He was the beneficiary of our companies policy of educating Arabs at American universities since we operated in the Kuwaiti Neutral Zone.. He was a graduate of UCLA. Before I met Wajeeha I held the opinion that Israel was a military power and had the right to defend themselves.

The secretary on the other hand was born and raised in Brooklyn and her room was a small closet. She had served in the U.S. Army prior to her employment and we use to kid about our drill sergeant's morning greetings with coffee in hand.

I've often wondered whatever happened to them. The last time I saw Wajeeha was in Beirut just prior to the 15 year war. My point being that this is an endless conflict when two sides just cannot accept any middle ground whatsoever.
Every time I say this, people blow a gasket, but it is nonetheless true: sometimes, there is no middle ground and conflict will only end when one side loses and the other one wins.

The Palestinians, at 80-90% rates (depending on how the question is phrased), are not interested in living in peace as equals with Jews (or any other faith, for that matter). Jews are willing to live in peace alongside Palestinians (and do) as long as it is in a Jewish state. There really isn't any middle ground between the two propositions. As long as Hamas continues to attack Israel, Israel is going to continue to make Gaza unlivable with the implicit aim of forcing them to leave. There is no other path to peace.

To understand the intractability of the situation, one must come to grips with islamic worldview. The purpose of social contract in islam is to promote and defend shariah as law of the land. Islam is structurally intolerant of infidels, stridently so, particularly in majority islamic lands. Islam views loss of control of islamic lands to other faiths as supreme indignity, intolerable outrage. They'd rather die as jihadis than agree to it. THAT'S the root cause of this conflict.

Very hard for Americans to understand there is just isn't any pathway to lasting peace here. Just an ongoing war that will wax and wane hotter or colder between cease fires.....until one side wins and the other loses. Once one understands that, the most humane course of action is obvious. Israel is pursuing it.



I apologize in advance for any reputational damage to you.

I totally agree. Sometimes things don't end happily
Redbrickbear
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Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

To understand the intractability of the situation, one must come to grips with islamic worldview. The purpose of social contract in islam is to promote and defend shariah as law of the land. Islam is structurally intolerant of infidels, stridently so, particularly in majority islamic lands. Islam views loss of control of islamic lands to other faiths as supreme indignity, intolerable outrage. They'd rather die as jihadis than agree to it. THAT'S the root cause of this conflict.


No doubt about that, and it's been the root cause of conflict between Muslims and every other people group they came across for a millenium and a half.

However, the opportunity to put an end to that threat at the end of World War I with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire has passed. A wise strategy would have been to march into Mecca and raze it to the ground.

The half century long technological advantage that opened in the first half of the 20th century between western powers and their islamic adverseries is rapidly closing, if it hasn't already. Furthermore, they are outbreeding us, and our rapidly secularzing culture has lost its way.

Israel has to come to terms with the fact that it is surrounded by intractable enemies, is severely outnumbered, and the military advantage they had over their neighbors is closing.

Hilaire Belloc said all you had to do was take Damascus

I will have to find the quote.

ps...found it


"The story must not be neglected by any modern, who may think in error that the East has finally fallen before the West, that Islam is now enslaved to our political and economic power at any rate if not to our philosophy. It is not so. Islam essentially survives, and Islam would not have survived had the Crusade made good its hold upon the essential point of Damascus. Islam survives. Its religion is intact; therefore its material strength may return. Our religion is in peril, and who can be confident in the continued skill, let alone the continued obedience, of those who make and work our machines? ... There is with us a complete chaos in religious doctrine.... We worship ourselves, we worship the nation; or we worship (some few of us) a particular economic arrangement believed to be the satisfaction of social justice.... Islam has not suffered this spiritual decline; and in the contrast between [our religious chaos and Islam's] religious certitudes still strong throughout the Mohammedan world lies our peril."
-Hilaire Belloc

"Our fathers all but re-established the spiritual mastery of Europe over the East; all but recovered the patrimony of Rome.... Western warriors, two thousand miles and more from home, have struck root and might feel they have permanently grasped the vital belt of the Orient. All seaboard Syria was theirs and nearly the whole of that 'bridge', a narrow band pressed in between the desert and the sea, the all-important central link joining the Moslem East to the Moslem West.... Should the link be broken for good by Christian mastery of Syria, all Islam was cut in two and would bleed to death of the wound." -Hilarie Belloc
muddybrazos
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Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.

There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.

And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.

It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.




That already describes the Palestinian civilians. Nothing Israel does or didn't do will change that. Palestinian civilians helped Hamas in the October 7 attacks and when the IDF madd the unprecedented step of calling Palestinian civilians before an attack do they could escape, the response was rudeness & insults. They preferred their children dead than surviving because Israel cared more for them than their leaders.
After 9/11, there was one group consistently and largely cheering ... the fhucktard Palestinians. They are so universally hated the other Arabs don't want the ghass holes.

Dont forget the Dancing Israelis (Mossad spies) who knew the towers were going to be attacked.
Redbrickbear
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nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

To understand the intractability of the situation, one must come to grips with islamic worldview. The purpose of social contract in islam is to promote and defend shariah as law of the land. Islam is structurally intolerant of infidels, stridently so, particularly in majority islamic lands. Islam views loss of control of islamic lands to other faiths as supreme indignity, intolerable outrage. They'd rather die as jihadis than agree to it. THAT'S the root cause of this conflict.


No doubt about that, and it's been the root cause of conflict between Muslims and every other people group they came across for a millenium and a half.

However, the opportunity to put an end to that threat at the end of World War I with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire has passed. A wise strategy would have been to march into Mecca and raze it to the ground.

The half century long technological advantage that opened in the first half of the 20th century between western powers and their islamic adverseries is rapidly closing, if it hasn't already. Furthermore, they are outbreeding us, and our rapidly secularzing culture has lost its way.

Israel has to come to terms with the fact that it is surrounded by intractable enemies, is severely outnumbered, and the military advantage they had over their neighbors is closing.

It really isn't though because most of the Muslim world is becoming more Westernized whether they like it or not and they hate the Palestinians just as much as everyone else because unrest is not good for them. There is a reason you don't see Egypt, Saudi, Jordan taking in Palestinians in large numbers. Because they know the problems.

The Muslim world is certainly becoming more Westernized.

Fertility rates are falling, obesity rates (from modern diets and processed food) are sky rocketing, even a growing secularism is talking hold especially among the young.

[some surveys indicate that people in the Middle East and Iran are loosening their ties to Islam. For example, a 2019 BBC News Arabic survey found that the number of people in the region identifying as "not religious" increased from 8% to 13% between 2013 and 2019, with the largest increase among people under 30. In Iran, 58% of people surveyed said they don't attend any religious services"]

[among 40,000 interviewees by the Group for Analysing and Measuring Attitudes in Iran (GAMAAN), which researched Iranians' attitudes toward religion, found that no less than 47% reported "having transitioned from being religious to non-religious"]

https://www.dw.com/en/middle-east-are-people-losing-their-religion/a-56442163#:~:text=Recent%20surveys%20indicate%20strongly%20that,for%20reforms%20of%20institutional%20religion.

Still that does not necessarily equate to them disliking the Palestinians.

Most Arab States take an understandable negative view of Hamas...but not of the Palestinians themselves

https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2023/10/arab-perspectives-on-the-middle-east-crisis?lang=en
ShooterTX
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muddybrazos said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.

There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.

And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.

It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.




That already describes the Palestinian civilians. Nothing Israel does or didn't do will change that. Palestinian civilians helped Hamas in the October 7 attacks and when the IDF madd the unprecedented step of calling Palestinian civilians before an attack do they could escape, the response was rudeness & insults. They preferred their children dead than surviving because Israel cared more for them than their leaders.
After 9/11, there was one group consistently and largely cheering ... the fhucktard Palestinians. They are so universally hated the other Arabs don't want the ghass holes.

Dont forget the Dancing Israelis (Mossad spies) who knew the towers were going to be attacked.

so less than half a dozen people were seen dancing on 9/11, and you say that all Israelis are behind the attacks.

Meanwhile we have video of hundreds of thousands of muslims all around the world celebrating on 9/11... but they are totally innocent??

I think you need a bigger tinfoil hat.
ShooterTX
Redbrickbear
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ShooterTX said:

muddybrazos said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.

There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.

And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.

It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.




That already describes the Palestinian civilians. Nothing Israel does or didn't do will change that. Palestinian civilians helped Hamas in the October 7 attacks and when the IDF madd the unprecedented step of calling Palestinian civilians before an attack do they could escape, the response was rudeness & insults. They preferred their children dead than surviving because Israel cared more for them than their leaders.
After 9/11, there was one group consistently and largely cheering ... the fhucktard Palestinians. They are so universally hated the other Arabs don't want the ghass holes.

Dont forget the Dancing Israelis (Mossad spies) who knew the towers were going to be attacked.

so less than half a dozen people were seen dancing on 9/11, and you say that all Israelis are behind the attacks.

Meanwhile we have video of hundreds of thousands of muslims all around the world celebrating on 9/11... but they are totally innocent??



The point is that its often forbidden to discuss Mossad (a powerful and relatively unaccountable intelligence agency that does not even answer to the Israeli democratic government in the form of the Knesset)

While its fine to question other players.

For what it worth I think its obvious it was radical Wahhabi Muslim Al Qaeda who planned and carried out the attack and not Mossad.

But it does not bother me or offend me if people question our greatest ally....we should question everyone

[Mossad is responsible for intelligence collection, covert operations, and counter-terrorism. Its director answers directly and only to the Prime Minister. Its annual budget is estimated to be around 10 billion shekels (US$2.73 billion), and it is estimated that it employs around 7,000 people, making it one of the world's largest espionage agencies. The organization is alleged to have been involved with many assassination plots across a variety of locations.

In March 1951, it was reorganized and incorporated into the prime minister's office, reporting directly to the Prime Minister of Israel. Due to Mossad's accountability directly to the prime minister and not to the Knesset, journalist Ronen Bergman has described Mossad as a "deep state"]
muddybrazos
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ShooterTX said:

muddybrazos said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.

There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.

And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.

It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.




That already describes the Palestinian civilians. Nothing Israel does or didn't do will change that. Palestinian civilians helped Hamas in the October 7 attacks and when the IDF madd the unprecedented step of calling Palestinian civilians before an attack do they could escape, the response was rudeness & insults. They preferred their children dead than surviving because Israel cared more for them than their leaders.
After 9/11, there was one group consistently and largely cheering ... the fhucktard Palestinians. They are so universally hated the other Arabs don't want the ghass holes.

Dont forget the Dancing Israelis (Mossad spies) who knew the towers were going to be attacked.

so less than half a dozen people were seen dancing on 9/11, and you say that all Israelis are behind the attacks.

Meanwhile we have video of hundreds of thousands of muslims all around the world celebrating on 9/11... but they are totally innocent??

I think you need a bigger tinfoil hat.
You need better reading comprehension bc nowhere did I say all Isreaelis are behind the attacks. I did say that 5 Isaeli Mossad agents were seen observing the towers being struck and had advanced knowledge of the attacks. Also, Lucky Larry Silverstein (owner of the towers) must've had advanced knowledge or extreme luck bc his wife made him a dermatology appointment on 9/11 or he wouldve been eating breaksfast at Windows of the World. He also took out a terrorism policy on the trade centers 6 weeks prior that netted him 4 billion. Another stroke of luck for him bc he wouldve had to spend millions removing the asbestos from the towers.
Aliceinbubbleland
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

Where is Biden's Red Line? Our bombs killed 43 supposedly innocents
I think he moved it somewhat this morning in his "news" conference. Those who write his speeches have now learned not to include the word "Pause" in his written speech that is projected on teleprompters.
ATL Bear
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muddybrazos said:

ShooterTX said:

muddybrazos said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.

There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.

And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.

It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.




That already describes the Palestinian civilians. Nothing Israel does or didn't do will change that. Palestinian civilians helped Hamas in the October 7 attacks and when the IDF madd the unprecedented step of calling Palestinian civilians before an attack do they could escape, the response was rudeness & insults. They preferred their children dead than surviving because Israel cared more for them than their leaders.
After 9/11, there was one group consistently and largely cheering ... the fhucktard Palestinians. They are so universally hated the other Arabs don't want the ghass holes.

Dont forget the Dancing Israelis (Mossad spies) who knew the towers were going to be attacked.

so less than half a dozen people were seen dancing on 9/11, and you say that all Israelis are behind the attacks.

Meanwhile we have video of hundreds of thousands of muslims all around the world celebrating on 9/11... but they are totally innocent??

I think you need a bigger tinfoil hat.
You need better reading comprehension bc nowhere did I say all Isreaelis are behind the attacks. I did say that 5 Isaeli Mossad agents were seen observing the towers being struck and had advanced knowledge of the attacks. Also, Lucky Larry Silverstein (owner of the towers) must've had advanced knowledge or extreme luck bc his wife made him a dermatology appointment on 9/11 or he wouldve been eating breaksfast at Windows of the World. He also took out a terrorism policy on the trade centers 6 weeks prior that netted him 4 billion. Another stroke of luck for him bc he wouldve had to spend millions removing the asbestos from the towers.
Silverstein bought the property 6 weeks prior to 9/11. And terrorism coverage was required by the insurance companies because, amazingly, the WTC had already been the target of a terrorist attack in 1993.

But what I'm sure REALLY happened was an elaborate insurance fraud scheme and false flag op in conjunction with Israeli intelligence…
whiterock
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nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

To understand the intractability of the situation, one must come to grips with islamic worldview. The purpose of social contract in islam is to promote and defend shariah as law of the land. Islam is structurally intolerant of infidels, stridently so, particularly in majority islamic lands. Islam views loss of control of islamic lands to other faiths as supreme indignity, intolerable outrage. They'd rather die as jihadis than agree to it. THAT'S the root cause of this conflict.


No doubt about that, and it's been the root cause of conflict between Muslims and every other people group they came across for a millenium and a half.

However, the opportunity to put an end to that threat at the end of World War I with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire has passed. A wise strategy would have been to march into Mecca and raze it to the ground.

The half century long technological advantage that opened in the first half of the 20th century between western powers and their islamic adverseries is rapidly closing, if it hasn't already. Furthermore, they are outbreeding us, and our rapidly secularzing culture has lost its way.

Israel has to come to terms with the fact that it is surrounded by intractable enemies, is severely outnumbered, and the military advantage they had over their neighbors is closing.

It really isn't though because most of the Muslim world is becoming more Westernized whether they like it or not and they hate the Palestinians just as much as everyone else because unrest is not good for them. There is a reason you don't see Egypt, Saudi, Jordan taking in Palestinians in large numbers. Because they know the problems.
And. Israel is a powerful balancing force that benefits, potentially, each of the great powers in the area.

The four great powers in the Levant are: Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Saudi. The first objective all of them share is that none of the others should be allowed to dominate the region. Except for perhaps Turkey, none of them could, but ALL of them can destabilize the area. Of the four, only Iran has made an attempt to do so, and they've had good success - Lebanon, Yemen, Gaza. And Israel has been right in the middle of it all.

A strong Israel stabilizes the region in a way that might not happen otherwise without a war between major powers in the region. THAT is why three of the four great powers and most of the smaller powers tolerate the existence of Israel. The benefits of leaving Israel in place outweigh the costs and risks, direct and ensuing, of eliminating Israel.

Iran attacks Israel reflexively for two primary reasons: 1) Disruption - it destabilizes the other three stronger and more proximate powers, and 2) Sectarian fault lines - antisemitism is a powerful motivator for Shiite and Gaza minority populations to agitate against regional Sunni hegemony. If you can't be powerful, be disruptive.......
muddybrazos
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ATL Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

ShooterTX said:

muddybrazos said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

historian said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

I'd imagine every young Palestinian who resides in or near Rafah will become loyal to Hamas and hate the Israelis forever.

There is no way Israel can win this war unless they kill 1 million Palestinians and even then there will remain Hamas loyalists.

And we are not helping supplying bombs for Israel while giving "humanitarian aid" to Hamas from the joke of the Gaza dock fiasco.

It is time for us to step aside and let the war mongers settle this between themselves.




That already describes the Palestinian civilians. Nothing Israel does or didn't do will change that. Palestinian civilians helped Hamas in the October 7 attacks and when the IDF madd the unprecedented step of calling Palestinian civilians before an attack do they could escape, the response was rudeness & insults. They preferred their children dead than surviving because Israel cared more for them than their leaders.
After 9/11, there was one group consistently and largely cheering ... the fhucktard Palestinians. They are so universally hated the other Arabs don't want the ghass holes.

Dont forget the Dancing Israelis (Mossad spies) who knew the towers were going to be attacked.

so less than half a dozen people were seen dancing on 9/11, and you say that all Israelis are behind the attacks.

Meanwhile we have video of hundreds of thousands of muslims all around the world celebrating on 9/11... but they are totally innocent??

I think you need a bigger tinfoil hat.
You need better reading comprehension bc nowhere did I say all Isreaelis are behind the attacks. I did say that 5 Isaeli Mossad agents were seen observing the towers being struck and had advanced knowledge of the attacks. Also, Lucky Larry Silverstein (owner of the towers) must've had advanced knowledge or extreme luck bc his wife made him a dermatology appointment on 9/11 or he wouldve been eating breaksfast at Windows of the World. He also took out a terrorism policy on the trade centers 6 weeks prior that netted him 4 billion. Another stroke of luck for him bc he wouldve had to spend millions removing the asbestos from the towers.
Silverstein bought the property 6 weeks prior to 9/11. And terrorism coverage was required by the insurance companies because, amazingly, the WTC had already been the target of a terrorist attack in 1993.

But what I'm sure REALLY happened was an elaborate insurance fraud scheme and false flag op in conjunction with Israeli intelligence…
I dont think it was any kind of insurance fraud conspiracy. I do believe the Mossad had advance knowledge and I bet Larry got told to not be there that day.
boognish_bear
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whitetrash
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boognish_bear said:




Don't worry: if he's not there he'll certainly be photoshopped in.


historian
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Bernie Sanders is becoming more irrelevant every day.

https://redstate.com/margaret-clark/2024/06/01/bernie-sanders-vows-to-boycott-netanyahu-congressional-address-no-one-cares-n2174954
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
whiterock
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excellent, thorough rebuttal of the "apartheid state" nonsense.....

muddybrazos
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AJ isnt allowed to be this real any more if he wants to be allowed to make any money but he was dropping truth bombs way back when.
boognish_bear
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whiterock
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Redbrickbear
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whiterock said:

excellent, thorough rebuttal of the "apartheid state" nonsense.....




I'll agree that is not an entirely accurate term to describe what is going on over there.

The Boers in South Africa were of course moving forward with plans to grant all the Bantustans (Black homelands) their independence. And we're rolling back controls on them.

Israel has no intention of granting the Palestinians an independent State in the West Bank. And is increasing settlement activity and military controls over them.


[In response, the government abandoned many aspects of orthodox apartheid: African trade unions were recognized, the pass laws were abolished, and attempts were made to co-opt the African middle and skilled working class (through the granting of limited urban and welfare rights) and to enhance the status of Indians and Coloureds (through constitutional change)…

The South African government subsequently declared four of the Bantustans independent: Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda, and Ciskei in 1981. Six other Bantustans remained self-governing but nonindependent: Gazankulu, KwaZulu, Lebowa, KwaNdebele, KaNgwane, and Qwaqwa. The South African government moved forward with plans to grant those their independence as well]






historian
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Israel would be very stupid to grant the Palestinians an independent state. No doubt many regret what they've already done: allowing them to have Gaza to use a base for continual terrorist attacks.

As for the apartheid comparisons, they are ignorant historically. It's fascist propaganda by people who know little and understand less the huge, consequential events & trends at play. It's also very dangerous because our leaders share that perspective and routinely make important decisions based upon it.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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Realitybites
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whiterock said:

The four great powers in the Levant are: Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Saudi. The first objective all of them share is that none of the others should be allowed to dominate the region. Except for perhaps Turkey, none of them could, but ALL of them can destabilize the area. Of the four, only Iran has made an attempt to do so, and they've had good success - Lebanon, Yemen, Gaza. And Israel has been right in the middle of it all.

A strong Israel stabilizes the region in a way that might not happen otherwise without a war between major powers in the region.


A major war between Turkey, Egypt, Iran, and Saudi would be an unusually good thing for western civilization. We would have to kick Turkey out of NATO but the end result would be far better than hundreds of thousands of dead Slavs in eastern europe.
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