Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I agree with all of your stance except for . "We, Christians . . .treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin"
In a separate post I will Exegete Romans 1 and explain how homosexuality is not a sin.

---

There is no cogent, logical or intellectually honest argument that homosexuality is not sinful behavior. Sorry.

---

Don't disagree, however, so is hetero's tapping everything that moves. Somehow, yall don't consider sin equal. Last I check there weren't degrees of sin in the Bible. Having said, that I know many hetero's that are the devil's playground. Conversely , I know homo's who are great humans. Some not so much. Hard to lump it all together in my view.

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

Yet we don't see it from adulterers, philanderers, fornicators, etc. Interesting to think about. I don't pretend to have the answers, but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

I think the difference is people don't wear their sin with pride except for LGBT and gluttons.

Murderers or other sinners don't walk in the streets claiming its perfectly fine that they kill people and have an entire media apparatus and government telling everyone to respect them.

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

Yet we don't see it from adulterers, philanderers, fornicators, etc. Interesting to think about. I don't pretend to have the answers, but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

I think the difference is people don't wear their sin with pride except for LGBT and gluttons.

Murderers or other sinners don't walk in the streets claiming its perfectly fine that they kill people and have an entire media apparatus and government telling everyone to respect them.

---

agree to some point. However, there are many deviants that are straight ...they just don't advertise, so I do get it.

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

Yet we don't see it from adulterers, philanderers, fornicators, etc. Interesting to think about. I don't pretend to have the answers, but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

I think the difference is people don't wear their sin with pride except for LGBT and gluttons.

Murderers or other sinners don't walk in the streets claiming it's perfectly fine that they kill people and have an entire media apparatus and government telling everyone to respect them.

---

agree to some point. However, there are many deviants that are straight ...they just don't advertise, so I do get it.

---

This is where this is headed and why you can't just brush it off and be like " meh whatever":

Judith Butler the “godmother of queer theory” just admitted that her work gives “license to pedophilia”. pic.twitter.com/EfXHldmQMQ

— Mythinformed (@MythinformedMKE) June 5, 2024

There's a growing movement to include and protect MAPs (minor attracted people). It's about as evil as it gets. Seeing how easily the American public can be pushed into accepting this kind of stuff, it wouldn't shock me to see them heavily included.

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

Yet we don't see it from adulterers, philanderers, fornicators, etc. Interesting to think about. I don't pretend to have the answers, but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

I think the difference is people don't wear their sin with pride except for LGBT and gluttons.

Murderers or other sinners don't walk in the streets claiming it's perfectly fine that they kill people and have an entire media apparatus and government telling everyone to respect them.

---

agree to some point. However, there are many deviants that are straight ...they just don't advertise, so I do get it.

---

This is where this is headed and why you can't just brush it off and be like " meh whatever":

Judith Butler the “godmother of queer theory” just admitted that her work gives “license to pedophilia”. pic.twitter.com/EfXHldmQMQ

— Mythinformed (@MythinformedMKE) June 5, 2024

There's a growing movement to include and protect MAPs (minor attracted people). It's about as evil as it gets. Seeing how easily the American public can be pushed into accepting this kind of stuff, it wouldn't shock me to see them heavily included.

---

Again, I can't worry about what others do. I concentrate on keeping my chit between the lanes. I've already raised 2 very productive kids. I can understand why folks with kid in public school come from. There are ways to not have to deal with it.

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

Yet we don't see it from adulterers, philanderers, fornicators, etc. Interesting to think about. I don't pretend to have the answers, but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

I think the difference is people don't wear their sin with pride except for LGBT and gluttons.

Murderers or other sinners don't walk in the streets claiming it's perfectly fine that they kill people and have an entire media apparatus and government telling everyone to respect them.

---

agree to some point. However, there are many deviants that are straight ...they just don't advertise, so I do get it.

---

This is where this is headed and why you can't just brush it off and be like " meh whatever":

Judith Butler the “godmother of queer theory” just admitted that her work gives “license to pedophilia”. pic.twitter.com/EfXHldmQMQ

— Mythinformed (@MythinformedMKE) June 5, 2024

There's a growing movement to include and protect MAPs (minor attracted people). It's about as evil as it gets. Seeing how easily the American public can be pushed into accepting this kind of stuff, it wouldn't shock me to see them heavily included.

---

Again, I can't worry about what others do. I concentrate on keeping my chit between the lanes. I've already raided 2 very productive kids. I can understand why folks with kid in public school come from. There are ways to not have to deal with it.

---

Did you have a warrant or was it a no knock? Lol

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

......but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

Why is that hard to understand, and why the objection? It is perfectly understandable both from a human and Christian perspective. There's sin that aligns with natural behavior, but certain limits and guidelines are exceeded - and then there's sin that completely deviates from natural behavior altogether. The latter is described in the bible as the consequence of mankind being so depraved that God withdraws all His grace and "gives them over" to such behavior. It's viewed as the end stage of man's rebellion against God.

Waco1947 said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

Light in the loafers.

---

Homophobic

---

1947 makes an ad hominem attack

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

......but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

Why is that hard to understand, and why the objection? It is perfectly understandable both from a human and Christian perspective. There's sin that aligns with natural behavior, but certain limits and guidelines are exceeded - and then there's sin that completely deviates from natural behavior altogether. The latter is described in the bible as the consequence of mankind being so depraved that God withdraws all His grace and "gives them over" to such behavior. It's viewed as the end stage of man's rebellion against God.

---

I see zero Biblical basis for your position. On multiple occasions, the Bible lumps different kinds of sexual sins together. Yes, they are serious. But so are others. Marriage, for example, is a scared covenant, so adultery and divorce are every bit as serious, if not more, in my view. Those sinners are affecting not only themselves, but spouses and children.

To be clear, I am not minimizing homosexual behavior. I believe it clearly is a sin.

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

There's one more reason for this, and yes, the whole LGBTQ thing is a super sin.

That's because adultery and fornication are the misuse of God's appropriate creation.

The whole LGBTQ thing is vandalism of God's creation. In this, homosexuality, transgenderism, etc is more like mass murder or genocide than exclusively a sexual sin...and now with LGBTQ having moved on to transing the kids, it is much easier to see than it was 20 years ago when it was about buttsex behind closed doors.

---

Zero Biblical basis for this.

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

Yet we don't see it from adulterers, philanderers, fornicators, etc. Interesting to think about. I don't pretend to have the answers, but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

Yes, and I think that goes back to deviant sexual proclivities. Sex between members of the opposite sex is so common and natural that I just think it's looked on differently.

Again, not saying it's any better a sin than any other. Just trying to explain why I think it's viewed so differently.

J.R. said:

---

Don't disagree, however, so is hetero's tapping everything that moves. Somehow, yall don't consider sin equal. Last I check there weren't degrees of sin in the Bible. Having said, that I know many hetero's that are the devil's playground. Conversely , I know homo's who are great humans. Some not so much. Hard to lump it all together in my view.

---

Actually the Bible does draw a distinction between sin.

1 John 5:16 states that "there is sin that is not deadly." Implying that there is sin that IS deadly. The Catholic Church calls that deadly sin, mortal sin. A person with unrepentant mortal sin on their soul will go to hell if they die in that state.

It has three conditions:
1 - it is grave in nature (murder, abortion, stealing, adultery, fornication, etc.)
2 - knowledge that it is a mortal sin
3 - deliberate and full consent.

Lesser sins - called Venial sins - white lies, breaking traffic laws, small gossip, etc. will not send you to hell, but they certainly weaken the will from abstaining from mortal sins.

Coke Bear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Don't disagree, however, so is hetero's tapping everything that moves. Somehow, yall don't consider sin equal. Last I check there weren't degrees of sin in the Bible. Having said, that I know many hetero's that are the devil's playground. Conversely , I know homo's who are great humans. Some not so much. Hard to lump it all together in my view.

---

Actually the Bible does draw a distinction between sin.

1 John 5:16 states that "there is sin that is not deadly." Implying that there is sin that IS deadly. The Catholic Church calls that deadly sin, mortal sin. A person with unrepentant mortal sin on their soul will go to hell if they die in that state.

It has three conditions:
1 - it is grave in nature (murder, abortion, stealing, adultery, fornication, etc.)
2 - knowledge that it is a mortal sin
3 - deliberate and full consent.

Lesser sins - called Venial sins - white lies, breaking traffic laws, small gossip, etc. will not send you to hell, but they certainly weaken the will from abstaining from mortal sins.

---

I can buy that. thanks.

y'all need to watch out for them queers...it may rub off.

sombear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

......but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

Why is that hard to understand, and why the objection? It is perfectly understandable both from a human and Christian perspective. There's sin that aligns with natural behavior, but certain limits and guidelines are exceeded - and then there's sin that completely deviates from natural behavior altogether. The latter is described in the bible as the consequence of mankind being so depraved that God withdraws all His grace and "gives them over" to such behavior. It's viewed as the end stage of man's rebellion against God.

---

I see zero Biblical basis for your position. On multiple occasions, the Bible lumps different kinds of sexual sins together. Yes, they are serious. But so are others. Marriage, for example, is a scared covenant, so adultery and divorce are every bit as serious, if not more, in my view. Those sinners are affecting not only themselves, but spouses and children.

To be clear, I am not minimizing homosexual behavior. I believe it clearly is a sin.

---

I just gave you biblical support. Romans 1 describes "unnatural relations" with the same sex as being shameless dishonorable passions that signify God having "given them over" to having a "debased mind". It's describing the act of going against God-ordained natural order as evidence of a deep level of depravity and rebelliousness, where you are kind of "far gone". Also, in Leviticus, though both adultery and homosexual acts were serious enough to be punishable by death, only homosexual acts were called an "abomination". Divorce was hated by God, but it was allowed (because their "hearts were hard"). Homosexual acts were never allowed.

The focus of Christians should not be on which sins are worse than others. Any sin separates us from God, and any sin can be forgiven (except perhaps blasphemy against the Holy Spirit mentioned by Jesus, whatever that is). But it would not be wrong if someone looked seriously at the bible and came away with the idea that homosexual acts are on a different tier. I am NOT saying that this justifies treating them poorly or thinking you are better than them.

...and furthermore, even if a heterosexual relationship begins outside of God's boundaries, the two people involved can repent, convert, marry, and bring their relationship and any children produced into the kingdom.

This can *never* happen with two homosexuals or a transgender.

God thought the LGBT business was revolting enough He nuked two cities on account of it.

>>

Delaware County crossing guard supplied middle school students with narcotics: DA
JoAnn Pileggi

Wed, June 5, 2024 at 9:22 AM MDT1 min read

DARBY, Pa. - A symbol of safety and security for parents and students is being charged with heinous acts that completely contradict that notion.
Kiara Lee, a 26-year-old crossing guard, is accused of distributing electronic cigarettes and substances containing marijuana to students at Penn Wood Middle School.
Officials say a student reported that Lee provided students with vapes several times, and frequently smoked marijuana with another student.
....
<<

I You He She It,
We You W T F.

- KKM

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating donut }

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

sombear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

---

I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

---

Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

---

I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

---

......but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

---

Why is that hard to understand, and why the objection? It is perfectly understandable both from a human and Christian perspective. There's sin that aligns with natural behavior, but certain limits and guidelines are exceeded - and then there's sin that completely deviates from natural behavior altogether. The latter is described in the bible as the consequence of mankind being so depraved that God withdraws all His grace and "gives them over" to such behavior. It's viewed as the end stage of man's rebellion against God.

---

I see zero Biblical basis for your position. On multiple occasions, the Bible lumps different kinds of sexual sins together. Yes, they are serious. But so are others. Marriage, for example, is a scared covenant, so adultery and divorce are every bit as serious, if not more, in my view. Those sinners are affecting not only themselves, but spouses and children.

To be clear, I am not minimizing homosexual behavior. I believe it clearly is a sin.

---

I just gave you biblical support. Romans 1 describes "unnatural relations" with the same sex as being shameless dishonorable passions that signify God having "given them over" to having a "debased mind". It's describing the act of going against God-ordained natural order as evidence of a deep level of depravity and rebelliousness, where you are kind of "far gone". Also, in Leviticus, though both adultery and homosexual acts were serious enough to be punishable by death, only homosexual acts were called an "abomination". Divorce was hated by God, but it was allowed (because their "hearts were hard"). Homosexual acts were never allowed.

The focus of Christians should not be on which sins are worse than others. Any sin separates us from God, and any sin can be forgiven (except perhaps blasphemy against the Holy Spirit mentioned by Jesus, whatever that is). But it would not be wrong if someone looked seriously at the bible and came away with the idea that homosexual acts are on a different tier. I am NOT saying that this justifies treating them poorly or thinking you are better than them.

---

But you need to keep reading in Romans 1:

They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Also:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:8-11 ESV - Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

J.R. said:

---

y'all need to watch out for them queers...it may rub off.

---

It rubbed off on me. I'm one dude away from being gay. One!

william said:

---

>>

Delaware County crossing guard supplied middle school students with narcotics: DA
JoAnn Pileggi

Wed, June 5, 2024 at 9:22 AM MDT1 min read

DARBY, Pa. - A symbol of safety and security for parents and students is being charged with heinous acts that completely contradict that notion.
Kiara Lee, a 26-year-old crossing guard, is accused of distributing electronic cigarettes and substances containing marijuana to students at Penn Wood Middle School.
Officials say a student reported that Lee provided students with vapes several times, and frequently smoked marijuana with another student.
....
<<

I You He She It,
We You W T F.

- KKM

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating donut }

---

I think "she" has a mustache. I don't know how "she" gets down but I'm sure that's not a man.

4th and Inches said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

Light in the loafers.

---

Homophobic

---

seems overly judgmental for an obvious attempt at humor..

---

Slurs masquerading as "humor" are still demeaning

---

just because you are offended, doesn't make you right..A slur is a slur regardless of any offense

---

Colossians 3:8 Now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

Sombear "But you need to keep reading in Romans 1:

They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Who is They? The Gentiles but later the Jews are also condemned. Are a Jew, knowing the law but being unfaithful to it?
or are you a Gentile "has no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy."

Also:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:8-11 ESV - Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
[url=https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/139967/replies/3763877][/url]Paul would not have know this word "homosexuality'. That appellation is the translator attribution not a Pauline word. Words matter. One cannot simply fling around words in Scripture.

why is this ok?

These children have no concept about $exuality at this point in their lives

Elementary school students in NY march in a school pride parade waiving the progress flag and chanting slogans while staff look on with delight pic.twitter.com/FoMFQIfLp7

— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) June 6, 2024

Waco1947 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

---

Light in the loafers.

---

Homophobic

---

seems overly judgmental for an obvious attempt at humor..

---

Slurs masquerading as "humor" are still demeaning

---

just because you are offended, doesn't make you right..A slur is a slur regardless of any offense

---

Colossians 3:8 Now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

---

slander, like when you call so many others racist for only being guilty of disagreeing with you?

sombear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

sombear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

sombear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Practice empathy: Try to see things from others' perspectives, even if you don't agree with them. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were in their shoes and try to understand their motivations and feelings.Psychology Today

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I agree. We Christians have for too long treated homosexuality as some kind of super sin, while looking the other way, or even endorsing, as our friends, family, and fellow church members have affairs, divorce, or live together/have sex before marriage - let alone all the nonsexual sins we accept, such as greed, anger, etc.

If you truly believe the Bible, it's all the same. In all of these cases we should hate the sin but truly love the sinner.

And, I know, the common rebuttal is that only gays flaunt it, try to change laws, force others to accept it, etc.

But what do you think divorcees, adulterers, etc. would do and how do you think they would behave if they were treated the same way?

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I think the whole "super sin" thing can be attributed to two things:

1) The "ick" factor; and
2) An active, world-wide campaign to normalize and excuse sinful behavior and indoctrinate our children regarding same.

I think the former played a bigger role prior to the last couple of decades in people's mindset. But today, I think the latter is the much bigger factor regarding the attention that sin gets.

You don't see any campaigns devoted to normalizing being greedy, or saying "greed is good." You don't see people attempting to say cheating on your spouse is a good thing. We don't see any tweets from the White House encouraging such sinful behaviors among our children, as we saw yesterday with the White House tweet to "trans children." That is because all of these things are generally seen as bad or harmful to humanity.

Today, the same cannot be said of LGBTQ+. And I think that is why it may be exacerbated by the church - or at least those churches who correctly hold it to be sinful.

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Point 2 I agree with as I already said. My question (don't know the answer for sure) is whether it would have turned out this way had we treated them as we do other sinners (all of us). I submit that the reason there is no counter-movement for other sins is we really don't treat them as sins or treat the sinners as sinners as we always have homosexuals. Throughout world history, groups that have been discriminated against have pushed or fought back. One can certainly argue that gays would have done the same things had we adopted a true love the sinner hate the sin approach. We'll never know.

Be honest, do we look at an adult man who sleeps with his girlfriend or even fiance with the same disdain we do homosexuals?

How about the adult whose entire life is about work and money?

I support the Colorado baker 100%. But has he refused to design a cake for two divorcees remarrying? How about couples living together?

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I think we look at deviant sexual proclivities differently, and that's just human nature. If a man has sex with an underaged teen and a man has sex with an adult mistress, both are sin, no? But we look at one as much, much worse than the other (and not merely because it's criminal). I think the same as true with adultery vs. homosexuality. Both fall short of God's glory, but one simply seems more deviant and against nature.

If we had treated the sin as just another sin (even though I don't think sins of the flesh are just another sin), would we have seen the push we are seeing now to normalize the behavior? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We will never know. But I tend to think that humanity has always attempted to rationalize sinful behavior, and we would have seen it regardless.

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......but we for sure have treated homosexuals far worse than vast majority of other sinners.

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Why is that hard to understand, and why the objection? It is perfectly understandable both from a human and Christian perspective. There's sin that aligns with natural behavior, but certain limits and guidelines are exceeded - and then there's sin that completely deviates from natural behavior altogether. The latter is described in the bible as the consequence of mankind being so depraved that God withdraws all His grace and "gives them over" to such behavior. It's viewed as the end stage of man's rebellion against God.

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I see zero Biblical basis for your position. On multiple occasions, the Bible lumps different kinds of sexual sins together. Yes, they are serious. But so are others. Marriage, for example, is a scared covenant, so adultery and divorce are every bit as serious, if not more, in my view. Those sinners are affecting not only themselves, but spouses and children.

To be clear, I am not minimizing homosexual behavior. I believe it clearly is a sin.

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I just gave you biblical support. Romans 1 describes "unnatural relations" with the same sex as being shameless dishonorable passions that signify God having "given them over" to having a "debased mind". It's describing the act of going against God-ordained natural order as evidence of a deep level of depravity and rebelliousness, where you are kind of "far gone". Also, in Leviticus, though both adultery and homosexual acts were serious enough to be punishable by death, only homosexual acts were called an "abomination". Divorce was hated by God, but it was allowed (because their "hearts were hard"). Homosexual acts were never allowed.

The focus of Christians should not be on which sins are worse than others. Any sin separates us from God, and any sin can be forgiven (except perhaps blasphemy against the Holy Spirit mentioned by Jesus, whatever that is). But it would not be wrong if someone looked seriously at the bible and came away with the idea that homosexual acts are on a different tier. I am NOT saying that this justifies treating them poorly or thinking you are better than them.

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But you need to keep reading in Romans 1:

They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Also:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:8-11 ESV - Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

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Yes, according to Romans 1 a "debased mind" will be characterized by being "filled" with "EVERY kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity". This state, which includes but is not limited to being disobedient to your parents, is on a different tier compared to someone who merely disobeys their parents momentarily but who is not filled with every kind of wickedness.

But do you think Christians treat the state of being "filled with every kind of evil and depravity" any better than the sin of a homosexual lifesyle? I disagree with your main premise.

Also, verses that lists sins aren't necessarily saying they are all the same. If you've ever told a white lie, you are a "liar". Is that really on the same tier as murdering someone?

sombear said:

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Paul knew what gay sex was and clearly was talking about that. One of my complaints against many conservatives on this issue is they consider homosexual urges and homosexual acts synonymous.

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it's obvious that 47 puts them on the same level as he believes neither the urge nor the act are sinful.