Oldbear83 said:
"I'm actually very good at this"
When you said that, you made it clear it's not about Mothra, it's about you.
I don't care for Mothra's tone in that exchange, but your response won him the point, seeing as you two are just playing for ego right now.
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
KaiBear said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Quote:
Waiting for the thread where Catholics are attacking Prots. Insisting what Prots believe or don't believe. Claiming that Prots are in 'mortal danger'.
Been a couple of years...still have never seen it.
Mass yesterday evening was great. The Priest is visting from Nigeria. Obviously a very kind and gentle man; hope he stays with us for a few years.
Meanwhile everyone on this thread realizes no one is going to alter the life long views of anyone else. Especially on a little visited free message board.
It isn't "attacking" Roman Catholics if it's alerting them to the deception that's leading them away from the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Quite the opposite.
As always you remain the noble, unerringly accurate intellectual of all things Catholic.
Amusing how Catholics don't posses such a compulsion in regards to Prots.
Possibly for the same reason Alabama football fans never concern themselves with UTEP athletics.
Meanwhile it's almost time to pick up our 3 grandsons.
Ages 9, 6 and 3. Dinner at the Longhorn Steakhouse and ice cream at Coldstones.
Guess we all have fun in our own way.
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
Yes. We do disagree. And its never personal with me. Just one of many places i discuss these things. This board is the most triggered always and it never really gets into a discussion just facts provided and a nu uh response. Is what it is. Never any factual rebuttal to the verses and statements. Yawn.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:KaiBear said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Quote:
Waiting for the thread where Catholics are attacking Prots. Insisting what Prots believe or don't believe. Claiming that Prots are in 'mortal danger'.
Been a couple of years...still have never seen it.
Mass yesterday evening was great. The Priest is visting from Nigeria. Obviously a very kind and gentle man; hope he stays with us for a few years.
Meanwhile everyone on this thread realizes no one is going to alter the life long views of anyone else. Especially on a little visited free message board.
It isn't "attacking" Roman Catholics if it's alerting them to the deception that's leading them away from the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Quite the opposite.
As always you remain the noble, unerringly accurate intellectual of all things Catholic.
Amusing how Catholics don't posses such a compulsion in regards to Prots.
Possibly for the same reason Alabama football fans never concern themselves with UTEP athletics.
Meanwhile it's almost time to pick up our 3 grandsons.
Ages 9, 6 and 3. Dinner at the Longhorn Steakhouse and ice cream at Coldstones.
Guess we all have fun in our own way.
What makes you think that lashing out at me personally does anything to change the truth and substance of what I'm saying?
If Catholics don't care that Protestants aren't saved, but Protestants DO care that Catholics aren't, well, that tells you everything.
KaiBear said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:KaiBear said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Quote:
Waiting for the thread where Catholics are attacking Prots. Insisting what Prots believe or don't believe. Claiming that Prots are in 'mortal danger'.
Been a couple of years...still have never seen it.
Mass yesterday evening was great. The Priest is visting from Nigeria. Obviously a very kind and gentle man; hope he stays with us for a few years.
Meanwhile everyone on this thread realizes no one is going to alter the life long views of anyone else. Especially on a little visited free message board.
It isn't "attacking" Roman Catholics if it's alerting them to the deception that's leading them away from the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Quite the opposite.
As always you remain the noble, unerringly accurate intellectual of all things Catholic.
Amusing how Catholics don't posses such a compulsion in regards to Prots.
Possibly for the same reason Alabama football fans never concern themselves with UTEP athletics.
Meanwhile it's almost time to pick up our 3 grandsons.
Ages 9, 6 and 3. Dinner at the Longhorn Steakhouse and ice cream at Coldstones.
Guess we all have fun in our own way.
What makes you think that lashing out at me personally does anything to change the truth and substance of what I'm saying?
If Catholics don't care that Protestants aren't saved, but Protestants DO care that Catholics aren't, well, that tells you everything.
I am not remotely 'lashing' out at you.
( as much as you wish to play the 'victim' )
You are merely part of the internet numbers game.
And though I am grateful for the reminder of such fringe elements…..have zero interest in attempting to fix you.
Hate who you wish, call it what you want …..none of what you post matters in the slightest.
Time to put the 9 year old and 6 year old to bed.
Been a wonderful day.
Robert Wilson said:
Lord have mercy, if I was a non-Christian I would read this thread and run like hell.
Fre3dombear said:
Mass was amazing tonight for the solemnity of the assumption of Mary. Packed house of God for worship and communion
Thank you Mary for saying YES when your free will could have said no.
Praise God
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
Yes. We do disagree. And its never personal with me. Just one of many places i discuss these things. This board is the most triggered always and it never really gets into a discussion just facts provided and a nu uh response. Is what it is. Never any factual rebuttal to the verses and statements. Yawn.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
Yes. We do disagree. And its never personal with me. Just one of many places i discuss these things. This board is the most triggered always and it never really gets into a discussion just facts provided and a nu uh response. Is what it is. Never any factual rebuttal to the verses and statements. Yawn.
A discussion is exactly what you avoided by "blocking" me. So you're pretty much a hypocrite in that regard. As far as the verses being discussed that you think support purgatory, I'd be glad to discuss them... but will it even matter? You'll just pretend you didn't see them because you blocked them, and that'll be an excuse to continue truckin' on with your errant beliefs.
Respond to this post, if you want to discuss those verses. If you don't respond, then we all will know you are full of it.
Fre3dombear said:
Heres another video. I know the thumbnail may again scare some off etc. may offer some prot insight into some confusion that they seem to have about Catholic belief re faith alone. Maybe some Catholics learn something as well
Fre3dombear said:
Mass was amazing tonight for the solemnity of the assumption of Mary. Packed house of God for worship and communion
Thank you Mary for saying YES when your free will could have said no.
Praise God
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:
Mass was amazing tonight for the solemnity of the assumption of Mary. Packed house of God for worship and communion
Thank you Mary for saying YES when your free will could have said no.
Praise God
I pray you find Jesus.
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:
Heres another video. I know the thumbnail may again scare some off etc. may offer some prot insight into some confusion that they seem to have about Catholic belief re faith alone. Maybe some Catholics learn something as well
This guy is wrong on so many different issues, I lost count.
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
Yes. We do disagree. And its never personal with me. Just one of many places i discuss these things. This board is the most triggered always and it never really gets into a discussion just facts provided and a nu uh response. Is what it is. Never any factual rebuttal to the verses and statements. Yawn.
So, you don't make it personal when you throw out personal insults? Hmmm. I guess that only makes sense in your mind.
As for the rest, you do realize you did not provide any facts or verses supporting your position, right? I am happy to debate facts and verses. But you have none.
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
Yes. We do disagree. And its never personal with me. Just one of many places i discuss these things. This board is the most triggered always and it never really gets into a discussion just facts provided and a nu uh response. Is what it is. Never any factual rebuttal to the verses and statements. Yawn.
So, you don't make it personal when you throw out personal insults? Hmmm. I guess that only makes sense in your mind.
As for the rest, you do realize you did not provide any facts or verses supporting your position, right? I am happy to debate facts and verses. But you have none.
Countless posts ive made with facts and verses. Even in the recent pages and others have as well to which youve said your typical mothrnu-uh thing.
Intellectually lazy and not worth engaging.
Defend your position more than john 3:16 and thief on the cross because thats all youve ever said besides mothrnu-uh. Theres much more to the Bible than that despite what Luther and Calvin said who created your religion
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:
Heres another video. I know the thumbnail may again scare some off etc. may offer some prot insight into some confusion that they seem to have about Catholic belief re faith alone. Maybe some Catholics learn something as well
This guy is wrong on so many different issues, I lost count.
Bring it then. Dont be lazy as always.
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:
Mass was amazing tonight for the solemnity of the assumption of Mary. Packed house of God for worship and communion
Thank you Mary for saying YES when your free will could have said no.
Praise God
I pray you find Jesus.
Lol. So much hubris and always just the personal attacks and as always zero Defense of your position and no intellectual discussion beyond nu uh.
Boringggggggg
Peace be with you
Robert Wilson said:
Lord have mercy, if I was a non-Christian I would read this thread and run like hell.
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
Yes. We do disagree. And its never personal with me. Just one of many places i discuss these things. This board is the most triggered always and it never really gets into a discussion just facts provided and a nu uh response. Is what it is. Never any factual rebuttal to the verses and statements. Yawn.
So, you don't make it personal when you throw out personal insults? Hmmm. I guess that only makes sense in your mind.
As for the rest, you do realize you did not provide any facts or verses supporting your position, right? I am happy to debate facts and verses. But you have none.
Countless posts ive made with facts and verses. Even in the recent pages and others have as well to which youve said your typical mothrnu-uh thing.
Intellectually lazy and not worth engaging.
Defend your position more than john 3:16 and thief on the cross because thats all youve ever said besides mothrnu-uh. Theres much more to the Bible than that despite what Luther and Calvin said who created your religion
You're projecting. As pointed out above, you rarely cite to scripture, and when you do, it's always off point, irrelevant or doesn't mean what you claim it does. As I said above, you are TERRIBLE at this.
If you're going to reject Christ's words in scripture, then there's not much were are going to agree with.
But let's test your theory. Show me the verses that support purgatory, and then let's have a debate. Which verses do you contend support its existence?
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
Yes. We do disagree. And its never personal with me. Just one of many places i discuss these things. This board is the most triggered always and it never really gets into a discussion just facts provided and a nu uh response. Is what it is. Never any factual rebuttal to the verses and statements. Yawn.
So, you don't make it personal when you throw out personal insults? Hmmm. I guess that only makes sense in your mind.
As for the rest, you do realize you did not provide any facts or verses supporting your position, right? I am happy to debate facts and verses. But you have none.
Countless posts ive made with facts and verses. Even in the recent pages and others have as well to which youve said your typical mothrnu-uh thing.
Intellectually lazy and not worth engaging.
Defend your position more than john 3:16 and thief on the cross because thats all youve ever said besides mothrnu-uh. Theres much more to the Bible than that despite what Luther and Calvin said who created your religion
You're projecting. As pointed out above, you rarely cite to scripture, and when you do, it's always off point, irrelevant or doesn't mean what you claim it does. As I said above, you are TERRIBLE at this.
If you're going to reject Christ's words in scripture, then there's not much were are going to agree with.
But let's test your theory. Show me the verses that support purgatory, and then let's have a debate. Which verses do you contend support its existence?
Youre projecting. Dozens of posts from me citing dozens of chapter and verse. Dont be lazy as always and dont project your laziness. Its all there. Even to make it easy for you, just do CokeBesrs post. Dont project. Dint be lazy.
Stimulate intellectually. Not head in sand. Share a thought and DEFEND IT
Just saying im terrible at it only makes my point you are lazy and have zero defense. Appreciate your yelp post.
Peace be with you. Step it up. Cmon
Your beliefs were invented by a couple of guys angry at God's original and true church.
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:KaiBear said:TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:
"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)
"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )
I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.
Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.
Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.
LOL
Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.
Very content with our own Faith.
Peace Be With You.
True dat
Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time
This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.
I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.
I hope you find Jesus.
Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc
It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"
Seems full of hubris or is it something else?
I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.
I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.
Matters not to me of course.
If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.
God and the scripture is the only standard.
Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc
Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.
Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.
I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.
Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.
Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh
Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.
Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.
Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.
In short, you're not very good at this.
Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical
Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc
I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.
Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all
The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.
You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.
As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.
We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.
Yes. We do disagree. And its never personal with me. Just one of many places i discuss these things. This board is the most triggered always and it never really gets into a discussion just facts provided and a nu uh response. Is what it is. Never any factual rebuttal to the verses and statements. Yawn.
So, you don't make it personal when you throw out personal insults? Hmmm. I guess that only makes sense in your mind.
As for the rest, you do realize you did not provide any facts or verses supporting your position, right? I am happy to debate facts and verses. But you have none.
Countless posts ive made with facts and verses. Even in the recent pages and others have as well to which youve said your typical mothrnu-uh thing.
Intellectually lazy and not worth engaging.
Defend your position more than john 3:16 and thief on the cross because thats all youve ever said besides mothrnu-uh. Theres much more to the Bible than that despite what Luther and Calvin said who created your religion
You're projecting. As pointed out above, you rarely cite to scripture, and when you do, it's always off point, irrelevant or doesn't mean what you claim it does. As I said above, you are TERRIBLE at this.
If you're going to reject Christ's words in scripture, then there's not much were are going to agree with.
But let's test your theory. Show me the verses that support purgatory, and then let's have a debate. Which verses do you contend support its existence?
Youre projecting. Dozens of posts from me citing dozens of chapter and verse. Dont be lazy as always and dont project your laziness. Its all there. Even to make it easy for you, just do CokeBesrs post. Dont project. Dint be lazy.
Stimulate intellectually. Not head in sand. Share a thought and DEFEND IT
Just saying im terrible at it only makes my point you are lazy and have zero defense. Appreciate your yelp post.
Peace be with you. Step it up. Cmon
Your beliefs were invented by a couple of guys angry at God's original and true church.
The problem with this little theory is there are countless posts on this board of me citing scripture and easily refuting your positions. Numerous posts. Busty is right - what typically happens is you stop responding to the points raised, because you are unable to address them.
But again, let's give it a go on purgatory. What is your scriptural support for it? Please cite the verses you are relying on, and let's discuss them.
Coke Bear said:The word "Purgatory" is not found in the Bible, but neither is "sinner's prayer" or "altar call", but protestants seem to believe in them. The word "Trinity" isn't found in the Bible, but there's scriptural evidence for that concept, just like there's scriptural evidence for Purgatory.Mothra said:
Scriptural cite for this position?
Before I get to that I'd like to explain what Purgatory is NOT. It is NOT a denial of Christ's sufficiency on the Cross, nor a "second chance" for salvation.
The Catechism (CCC 1030) states:
All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
It has the backing of scripture Rev 21:27 "nothing unclean shall enter heaven."
I'll come back to this. Now let's look at scripture in more detail …
2 Maccabees 12:46
"Therefore, he made atonement for the dead, so that they might be delivered from their sin.".
This passage deals with after a battle that Judas Maccabeus fought and won, he discovered that the slain men in his army wear wearing pagan amulets. Judas and his men took up a collection of "two thousand silver drachmas and which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice." Verse 43.
This shows that the Jewish faith had/has a custom of praying for the dead.
I realize that some protestants do not accept Maccabees as canon; however, it shows that the Jews, who lived close to the time of Jesus, held this believe in praying for the dead. Today's Jews still make prayers for the dead.
1 Cor. 3:11-15
For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble each man's work will become manifest; for the Day] will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
Here St Paul is telling us when we build (our works) on the foundation of Jesus they will be tested by FIRE on the Day. What Day? On our Judgement Day.
He says our "gold, silver, precious stones" our good works will be tested in fire. These "gold, silver, precious stones" are not burned up by the fire.
Next he states that our "wood, hay, stubble" our NOT good works will be burned up.
Where does this happen? In heaven, NO. Our bad works cannot follow us into heaven, because we believe John in Rev. 21:27 "nothing unclean will enter heaven."
It can't be Hell, because souls are being saved. No one is getting out of hell.
St Paul tells us that we receive our reward, heaven. Man's bad works are burned up and he suffers loss. We also know that this can't be heaven, we cannot suffer loss in heaven.
It has to be somewhere else. The Church calls this Purgatory.
Another verse that alludes to Purgatory is Matthew 5:24-25
Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
The "last penny" represents the purification process before entering the kingdom of God because no sin can stand before God.
Why do we believe that this "prison" is purgatory?
The Greek used by Matthew for "prison" is phulake. It is the same word that is used by St. Peter, in I Peter 3:19, to describe the "holding place" into which Jesus descended after his death to liberate the detained spirits of Old Testament believers.
Finally, logically we can see the necessity of purgatory.
Other than our atheist friend on here, we all believe John in Rev. 21:27 "nothing unclean will enter heaven."
If most of us look honestly at our souls, we will admit that we all have an attachment to some sin. It could be greed, lust, pride, envy, sloth, gluttony, or wrath.
If we ALL have some attachment to sin, which is in our heart and on our soul, where does this go at the moment of our death? It is still with us. We CAN'T take those sins to heaven.
It has to be purged from our souls. This purgation (or purgative state) is what the Catholic Church calls Purgatory. Call it by any name you want, be we MUST be free from all attachment of sin BEFORE we enter heaven.
There's SO much more that we could discuss about this topic. For those that care, Catholic Answers is a phenomenal source for what the Church truly teaches about Purgatory. The question of Purgatory is literally the Number 1 question asked on their website.
The most thorough book that I've read on this topic is "Purgatory is For Real Good News About the Afterlife for Those Who Aren't Perfect Yet?" by Karlo Broussard.
Mothra said:
I already responded to Coke. You would like me to respond twice?
As I pointed out above, the verses he cited don't mention purgatory nor do they insinuate its existence. When God says nothing unclean will enter heaven, that in no way implies the existence of a place never mentioned or alluded to in scripture. Coke is making some logical leaps regarding what scripture alludes to. Therein lies the problem.
Again, these arguments have been addressed. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? Do you have any scriptural support for your position?
. Which one of yall 44,998 religions is right? How do i know which to join? Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:
I already responded to Coke. You would like me to respond twice?
As I pointed out above, the verses he cited don't mention purgatory nor do they insinuate its existence. When God says nothing unclean will enter heaven, that in no way implies the existence of a place never mentioned or alluded to in scripture. Coke is making some logical leaps regarding what scripture alludes to. Therein lies the problem.
Again, these arguments have been addressed. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? Do you have any scriptural support for your position?
Things not said in the bible:
Trinity
Sola fide
Sola scriptura
Osas
Abortion
And i could go On and on
Weak defense of your position as always. Burden is upon you as what youre believing didnt exist for at least 1500 years and all that im discussing has 1) Biblical roots noted ad nauseum and 2) has supporting writings from many many church fathers dating back to Christ / near Christ etc . That would give me and most any logical person pause to refute that based on luther and calvin etc.
What of all the souls that lived and died not even knowing or thinking any thought youre suggesting in this context from say 33AD to 1521 when Martin Luther desperately desired to get laid?
I rest very very easy knowing my beliefs of my Catholic church remain consistent for 2000 years on these concepts from the scripture.
God will reveal all to us in the end but I and any Catholic can logically lay out, which has been done, the root of these concepts and the reasons for belief in them.
I wont tell you you and your family are going to hell for your beliefs as some on here (even you I guess with your "i Pray you find Jesus comment) seem to suggest. Some of those same people here passionately believe Mary isnt the mother of God so i personally would be very wary of throwing in with much of that crowds belief
Ill leave that to God to decide if John 6:53 and many other commands he gave that Protestants claim they dint believe in mattered, if you will go to purgatory or not after you die or immediately to Heaven (which level?) etc
Regardless i pray to see you there and will even buy you a beer if youll drink it and we can chuckle at what we got right and what we got wrong. What verses mattered and which ones we could pick and choose to ignore etc.
As another fun example i use in many talks is just ask siri who founded the Catholic church and when and who founded the Baptist church (or any of the 44,998 flavors) and when? . Which one of yall 44,998 religions is right? How do i know which to join?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:
I already responded to Coke. You would like me to respond twice?
As I pointed out above, the verses he cited don't mention purgatory nor do they insinuate its existence. When God says nothing unclean will enter heaven, that in no way implies the existence of a place never mentioned or alluded to in scripture. Coke is making some logical leaps regarding what scripture alludes to. Therein lies the problem.
Again, these arguments have been addressed. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? Do you have any scriptural support for your position?
Things not said in the bible:
Trinity
Sola fide
Sola scriptura
Osas
Abortion
And i could go On and on
Weak defense of your position as always. Burden is upon you as what youre believing didnt exist for at least 1500 years and all that im discussing has 1) Biblical roots noted ad nauseum and 2) has supporting writings from many many church fathers dating back to Christ / near Christ etc . That would give me and most any logical person pause to refute that based on luther and calvin etc.
What of all the souls that lived and died not even knowing or thinking any thought youre suggesting in this context from say 33AD to 1521 when Martin Luther desperately desired to get laid?
I rest very very easy knowing my beliefs of my Catholic church remain consistent for 2000 years on these concepts from the scripture.
God will reveal all to us in the end but I and any Catholic can logically lay out, which has been done, the root of these concepts and the reasons for belief in them.
I wont tell you you and your family are going to hell for your beliefs as some on here (even you I guess with your "i Pray you find Jesus comment) seem to suggest. Some of those same people here passionately believe Mary isnt the mother of God so i personally would be very wary of throwing in with much of that crowds belief
Ill leave that to God to decide if John 6:53 and many other commands he gave that Protestants claim they dint believe in mattered, if you will go to purgatory or not after you die or immediately to Heaven (which level?) etc
Regardless i pray to see you there and will even buy you a beer if youll drink it and we can chuckle at what we got right and what we got wrong. What verses mattered and which ones we could pick and choose to ignore etc.
As another fun example i use in many talks is just ask siri who founded the Catholic church and when and who founded the Baptist church (or any of the 44,998 flavors) and when? . Which one of yall 44,998 religions is right? How do i know which to join?
I couldn't have imagined so many wrong things could be so densely packed into a single comment.
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:
I already responded to Coke. You would like me to respond twice?
As I pointed out above, the verses he cited don't mention purgatory nor do they insinuate its existence. When God says nothing unclean will enter heaven, that in no way implies the existence of a place never mentioned or alluded to in scripture. Coke is making some logical leaps regarding what scripture alludes to. Therein lies the problem.
Again, these arguments have been addressed. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? Do you have any scriptural support for your position?
Things not said in the bible:
Trinity
Sola fide
Sola scriptura
Osas
Abortion
And i could go On and on
Weak defense of your position as always. Burden is upon you as what youre believing didnt exist for at least 1500 years and all that im discussing has 1) Biblical roots noted ad nauseum and 2) has supporting writings from many many church fathers dating back to Christ / near Christ etc . That would give me and most any logical person pause to refute that based on luther and calvin etc.
What of all the souls that lived and died not even knowing or thinking any thought youre suggesting in this context from say 33AD to 1521 when Martin Luther desperately desired to get laid?
I rest very very easy knowing my beliefs of my Catholic church remain consistent for 2000 years on these concepts from the scripture.
God will reveal all to us in the end but I and any Catholic can logically lay out, which has been done, the root of these concepts and the reasons for belief in them.
I wont tell you you and your family are going to hell for your beliefs as some on here (even you I guess with your "i Pray you find Jesus comment) seem to suggest. Some of those same people here passionately believe Mary isnt the mother of God so i personally would be very wary of throwing in with much of that crowds belief
Ill leave that to God to decide if John 6:53 and many other commands he gave that Protestants claim they dint believe in mattered, if you will go to purgatory or not after you die or immediately to Heaven (which level?) etc
Regardless i pray to see you there and will even buy you a beer if youll drink it and we can chuckle at what we got right and what we got wrong. What verses mattered and which ones we could pick and choose to ignore etc.
As another fun example i use in many talks is just ask siri who founded the Catholic church and when and who founded the Baptist church (or any of the 44,998 flavors) and when? . Which one of yall 44,998 religions is right? How do i know which to join?
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:
I already responded to Coke. You would like me to respond twice?
As I pointed out above, the verses he cited don't mention purgatory nor do they insinuate its existence. When God says nothing unclean will enter heaven, that in no way implies the existence of a place never mentioned or alluded to in scripture. Coke is making some logical leaps regarding what scripture alludes to. Therein lies the problem.
Again, these arguments have been addressed. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? Do you have any scriptural support for your position?
Things not said in the bible:
Trinity
Sola fide
Sola scriptura
Osas
Abortion
And i could go On and on
Weak defense of your position as always. Burden is upon you as what youre believing didnt exist for at least 1500 years and all that im discussing has 1) Biblical roots noted ad nauseum and 2) has supporting writings from many many church fathers dating back to Christ / near Christ etc . That would give me and most any logical person pause to refute that based on luther and calvin etc.
What of all the souls that lived and died not even knowing or thinking any thought youre suggesting in this context from say 33AD to 1521 when Martin Luther desperately desired to get laid?
I rest very very easy knowing my beliefs of my Catholic church remain consistent for 2000 years on these concepts from the scripture.
God will reveal all to us in the end but I and any Catholic can logically lay out, which has been done, the root of these concepts and the reasons for belief in them.
I wont tell you you and your family are going to hell for your beliefs as some on here (even you I guess with your "i Pray you find Jesus comment) seem to suggest. Some of those same people here passionately believe Mary isnt the mother of God so i personally would be very wary of throwing in with much of that crowds belief
Ill leave that to God to decide if John 6:53 and many other commands he gave that Protestants claim they dint believe in mattered, if you will go to purgatory or not after you die or immediately to Heaven (which level?) etc
Regardless i pray to see you there and will even buy you a beer if youll drink it and we can chuckle at what we got right and what we got wrong. What verses mattered and which ones we could pick and choose to ignore etc.
As another fun example i use in many talks is just ask siri who founded the Catholic church and when and who founded the Baptist church (or any of the 44,998 flavors) and when? . Which one of yall 44,998 religions is right? How do i know which to join?
So, you start a thread on the existence of purgatory, and have failed to provide even a shred of scriptural support for same (despite repeated request), but it's somehow my burden to disprove its existence? Hmmm. I am not sure you fully-understand burdens of proof. When you make a baseless and unsupported claim, no proof is needed to disprove it.
With respect to your allegation that the words "Trinity, Sola fide, Sola scriptura, Osas and Abortion" do not appear in scripture, we agree on this point. The difference between the first four concepts and purgatory is there is ample scriptural support for each of these concepts, as opposed to purgatory. With respect to abortion, I believe the practice is condemned in a number of verses, not the least of which is, "Thou shall not kill."
Can't really comment on the rest of your post. My issue with Catholicism is the lack of scriptural support for many of its beliefs, some of which I believe are diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings and the Holy Scriptures. While I realize that Catholics place precedence on "tradition," I think as with all things, tradition needs to be weighed against scripture, and where there is inconsistency, or the failure to find support for a tradition in scripture, I think such traditions are suspect and require very close scrutiny.
We also vehemently disagree that the Catholicism you practice existed at or around the time of Christ. What you practice looks nothing like the early church described in Acts, which simply was not Catholic in any sense of the word. I know you will vehemently disagree with this, but I think the difference between us is you once again lack the scriptural support for your position.
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:
I already responded to Coke. You would like me to respond twice?
As I pointed out above, the verses he cited don't mention purgatory nor do they insinuate its existence. When God says nothing unclean will enter heaven, that in no way implies the existence of a place never mentioned or alluded to in scripture. Coke is making some logical leaps regarding what scripture alludes to. Therein lies the problem.
Again, these arguments have been addressed. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? Do you have any scriptural support for your position?
Things not said in the bible:
Trinity
Sola fide
Sola scriptura
Osas
Abortion
And i could go On and on
Weak defense of your position as always. Burden is upon you as what youre believing didnt exist for at least 1500 years and all that im discussing has 1) Biblical roots noted ad nauseum and 2) has supporting writings from many many church fathers dating back to Christ / near Christ etc . That would give me and most any logical person pause to refute that based on luther and calvin etc.
What of all the souls that lived and died not even knowing or thinking any thought youre suggesting in this context from say 33AD to 1521 when Martin Luther desperately desired to get laid?
I rest very very easy knowing my beliefs of my Catholic church remain consistent for 2000 years on these concepts from the scripture.
God will reveal all to us in the end but I and any Catholic can logically lay out, which has been done, the root of these concepts and the reasons for belief in them.
I wont tell you you and your family are going to hell for your beliefs as some on here (even you I guess with your "i Pray you find Jesus comment) seem to suggest. Some of those same people here passionately believe Mary isnt the mother of God so i personally would be very wary of throwing in with much of that crowds belief
Ill leave that to God to decide if John 6:53 and many other commands he gave that Protestants claim they dint believe in mattered, if you will go to purgatory or not after you die or immediately to Heaven (which level?) etc
Regardless i pray to see you there and will even buy you a beer if youll drink it and we can chuckle at what we got right and what we got wrong. What verses mattered and which ones we could pick and choose to ignore etc.
As another fun example i use in many talks is just ask siri who founded the Catholic church and when and who founded the Baptist church (or any of the 44,998 flavors) and when? . Which one of yall 44,998 religions is right? How do i know which to join?
So, you start a thread on the existence of purgatory, and have failed to provide even a shred of scriptural support for same (despite repeated request), but it's somehow my burden to disprove its existence? Hmmm. I am not sure you fully-understand burdens of proof. When you make a baseless and unsupported claim, no proof is needed to disprove it.
With respect to your allegation that the words "Trinity, Sola fide, Sola scriptura, Osas and Abortion" do not appear in scripture, we agree on this point. The difference between the first four concepts and purgatory is there is ample scriptural support for each of these concepts, as opposed to purgatory. With respect to abortion, I believe the practice is condemned in a number of verses, not the least of which is, "Thou shall not kill."
Can't really comment on the rest of your post. My issue with Catholicism is the lack of scriptural support for many of its beliefs, some of which I believe are diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings and the Holy Scriptures. While I realize that Catholics place precedence on "tradition," I think as with all things, tradition needs to be weighed against scripture, and where there is inconsistency, or the failure to find support for a tradition in scripture, I think such traditions are suspect and require very close scrutiny.
We also vehemently disagree that the Catholicism you practice existed at or around the time of Christ. What you practice looks nothing like the early church described in Acts, which simply was not Catholic in any sense of the word. I know you will vehemently disagree with this, but I think the difference between us is you once again lack the scriptural support for your position.
1) see coke bears post. I can add more but it is a screed of scriptural support for purgatory. Just because you say its not, nobody can help you there it would appear. You seem to want me to repost those verses for some reason.
2) you can find the sacrifice of the mass and john 6:53 going back to within a century of Christ well documented so what part of the mass do you have issue with that you think gives your position some validity thats been celebrated for multiple millennia?
Thats been discussed here already as well. Whats different is the slowly dying megachurch rock concert of the protestant weekly bible study. Nothing of the sort existed for 99% of the time since Christ. Nor the 44,998 flavors of protestant faiths invented since Luther. Again, your point?