LOL

Have always found it amusing that some Prots find it necessary to routinely attack Catholics.........but never the reverse.

Possibly due to the security and happiness provided by over 2000 years of being the worlds largest Christian denomination. Obviously if God didn't approve.......things would have changed long before now.

Oh well; back to the gym.

Catholics never attack Protestants?


Oi.

historian said:

---

This needs more stars. All excellent points.

We should remember that Jesus did NOT tell the thief on the cross, "Today you will be in purgatory", He said, "Today you will be with me in paradise."

---

Where is paradise? I asked that a few months back but got no responses.

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

Protestants DO worry about what Roman Catholics think. Because what Catholics believe is leading them away from the true saving gospel of Jesus Christ. The concept of purgatory is just one such example.

People are correctly noting that purgatory is not in Scripture. But the problem is far, far worse than that. The concept of purgatory undermines the very gospel. It diminishes Jesus' finished work on the cross, saying that we still need to suffer for our sins. It's saying to Jesus, "Thanks Jesus, for dying for our sins... but you didn't do all the work, there still more that I myself have to pay for." It's an insult to the blood of Jesus, saying that Jesus' sacrifice was incomplete and insufficient to atone for all our sins.

Scripture clearly tells us that Jesus' blood cleanses us from ALL sin: "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from ALL sin." (1 John 1:7) Scripture tells us that Jesus' death and resurrection imputes Jesus' righteousness fully to us, a free gift of God's grace that we receive by faith in him alone, not by our works. (Romans 4, Ephesians 2:8-9) What purgatory says, however, is that faith in Jesus does NOT cleanse us from all our sins and does NOT make us righteous, and that our unrighteous works are still left on us and they still need to be paid for, by us. Purgatory steals the glory from Jesus, and it also steals the peace that we can have by knowing that when we die, we will immediately be with him, a peace that Jesus gave himself for us to have. Purgatory, however, makes one morbidly afraid of death, fearful of the punishment that awaits them, and for how long, who knows. This is definitely NOT peace. This is an affront to what God tells us:

"But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed." - Isaiah 53

"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."- Romans 5:1


The concept of purgatory degrades one's trust in Jesus' finished work in atoning for all sin - a belief that seriously jeapordizes one's eternal salvation. It's a lie meant to hurt you, make you afraid, and guide you away from true saving faith. So yeah, protestants do care about that.

May TRUE peace TRULY be with you.

---

LOL

Got Peace.

Got happiness.

Going to Mass tonight ( Holy Day of Obligation ) along with millions of others worldwide.

The largest Christian Faith for over 2000 years !

---

Ill be there. And on sunday.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc

It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"

Seems full of hubris or is it something else?

---

I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.

I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.

---

Matters not to me of course.

If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.

God and the scripture is the only standard.

Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc

Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Always open to discuss. But your commenta of "you have no scriltural defense of " xyz just shows stubborness. You can disagree sure or say thats not how i interpret it but to say it doesnt exist is being completely blind or simply lying.

Also a lot of it is built on over 1500 years of documented beliefs before some new interpretation came into existence via some schismatics, so forgive all Catholics for collectively sometimes saying huh and wanting to understand how and why a new belief is suddenly valid and should be pivoted to

---

Again, this is where we simply disagree. There are no scriptural references to purgatory, and I would argue the one verse Coke cited in no way supports the idea of its existence. One would think that if there were such a place, Jesus, Paul, Peter and the other NT authors would have made specific mention of it. The fact it is not specifically mentioned, or even alluded to, suggests it doesn't exist.

You can continue to complain when I point out you have no scriptural support for your position. The best way to end that is to provide such support, if it exists.

---

No complaint from me at all. I only observe your behavior and present data, facts, scriptures, thousands of years old texts assembled by the Catholics etc etc.

historian said:

---

I don't think all Catholics believe that salvation is from Mary. That clearly is a false doctrine. Mary was a f sad inner like everyone else, except Jesus, and was not saved unless she repented and believed. Just like everyone else. I have no doubt that she did. She knew who Christ truly was & is better than almost anyone.

---

When has a single CAtholic suggested Mary gives them salvation? Now people just making stuff up like martin luther raging as he schismed which Jesus himself warned against.

Initially yes, but later rejected it. The thing about the reformation and reformed theology in general is that you're always trying to be constrained by scripture. Reformation is not something that ends, per se

Luther had a lot of great views, but he wasn't correct about everything

KaiBear said:

---

LOL

Have always found it amusing that some Prots find it necessary to routinely attack Catholics.........but never the reverse.

Possibly due to the security and happiness provided by over 2000 years of being the worlds largest Christian denomination. Obviously if God didn't approve.......things would have changed long before now.

Oh well; back to the gym.

---

Catholics have murdered hundreds of thousands of protestants throughout the course of history. In fact, there are areas of central and South America in 2025 where if a Protestant were to preach the gospel and tell Catholics to stop committing blasphemy like bowing down and praying to the dead (i.e. witchcraft )/worshiping Mary (and catholics do worship Mary, though they hide it behind terms like 'veneration'), they will be murdered.

But in all honesty, what's funny to me is that if us protestants are wrong about this and end up in purgatory, y'all can just pray to Mary whenever you see her appear in the clouds or in your toast, and I'll be out of there in no time!

Fre3dombear said:

---

historian said:

---

This needs more stars. All excellent points.

We should remember that Jesus did NOT tell the thief on the cross, "Today you will be in purgatory", He said, "Today you will be with me in paradise."

---

Where is paradise? I asked that a few months back but got no responses.

---

Zipping up at Floyd Casey after using a piss trough on October 30th 2004.

Fre3dombear said:

---

historian said:

---

This needs more stars. All excellent points.

We should remember that Jesus did NOT tell the thief on the cross, "Today you will be in purgatory", He said, "Today you will be with me in paradise."

---

Where is paradise? I asked that a few months back but got no responses.

---

It's a synonym for heaven. It's where God resides. Other than that, I cannot say and I don't know if any human can.

Fre3dombear said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't think all Catholics believe that salvation is from Mary. That clearly is a false doctrine. Mary was a f sad inner like everyone else, except Jesus, and was not saved unless she repented and believed. Just like everyone else. I have no doubt that she did. She knew who Christ truly was & is better than almost anyone.

---

When has a sungle. CAtholic suggested Mary gives them salvation? Now people just making stuff up like martin luther raging as he schismed which Jesus himself warned against.

---

That's a good question. I'm unsure.

It does seem that some Catholics place great emphasis on Mary when the reality is that she is one of many Biblical heroes but no greater than Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Ruth, Esther, Elizabeth, Peter, Paul, or any of the many others. I do not understand the Catholic practice of praying to her or any other saints. We should only pray to God (Father, Son, or Holy Ghost). No one else in heaven can answer our prayers.

I have seen Catholic references to Mary as the "Mother of God" which is misleading. She was the human mother of the Christ child but what made Christ divine was His Father, God, not His mother, the woman God chose for that special purpose. In that sense, she was no greater or important than any of the many others God has chosen for His purposes throughout history. Do these examples mean that Catholics think of her as divine? I don't know. I have never talked to Catholics about such things. When I'm with Catholic friends we don't spend much time discussing theology.

Youre a clown said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

LOL

Have always found it amusing that some Prots find it necessary to routinely attack Catholics.........but never the reverse.

Possibly due to the security and happiness provided by over 2000 years of being the worlds largest Christian denomination. Obviously if God didn't approve.......things would have changed long before now.

Oh well; back to the gym.

---

Catholics have murdered hundreds of thousands of protestants throughout the course of history. In fact, there are areas of central and South America in 2025 where if a Protestant were to preach the gospel and tell Catholics to stop committing blasphemy like bowing down and praying to the dead (i.e. witchcraft )/worshiping Mary (and catholics do worship Mary, though they hide it behind terms like 'veneration'), they will be murdered.

But in all honesty, what's funny to me is that if us protestants are wrong about this and end up in purgatory, y'all can just pray to Mary whenever you see her appear in the clouds or in your toast, and I'll be out of there in no time!

---

You don't know your history very well , or current events for that matter.

The wars following the reformation resulted in massacres by both sides. Hundreds of thousands of peasants were killed…..most never even comprehending why.

However the worst religious massacre in North America happened in Mexico during the 1920's.

When thousands of Catholics were murdered. Often strung up on telephone poles.

Google it…easy to confirm.

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

Protestants DO worry about what Roman Catholics think. Because what Catholics believe is leading them away from the true saving gospel of Jesus Christ. The concept of purgatory is just one such example.

People are correctly noting that purgatory is not in Scripture. But the problem is far, far worse than that. The concept of purgatory undermines the very gospel. It diminishes Jesus' finished work on the cross, saying that we still need to suffer for our sins. It's saying to Jesus, "Thanks Jesus, for dying for our sins... but you didn't do all the work, there still more that I myself have to pay for." It's an insult to the blood of Jesus, saying that Jesus' sacrifice was incomplete and insufficient to atone for all our sins.

Scripture clearly tells us that Jesus' blood cleanses us from ALL sin: "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from ALL sin." (1 John 1:7) Scripture tells us that Jesus' death and resurrection imputes Jesus' righteousness fully to us, a free gift of God's grace that we receive by faith in him alone, not by our works. (Romans 4, Ephesians 2:8-9) What purgatory says, however, is that faith in Jesus does NOT cleanse us from all our sins and does NOT make us righteous, and that our unrighteous works are still left on us and they still need to be paid for, by us. Purgatory steals the glory from Jesus, and it also steals the peace that we can have by knowing that when we die, we will immediately be with him, a peace that Jesus gave himself for us to have. Purgatory, however, makes one morbidly afraid of death, fearful of the punishment that awaits them, and for how long, who knows. This is definitely NOT peace. This is an affront to what God tells us:

"But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed." - Isaiah 53

"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."- Romans 5:1


The concept of purgatory degrades one's trust in Jesus' finished work in atoning for all sin - a belief that seriously jeapordizes one's eternal salvation. It's a lie meant to hurt you, make you afraid, and guide you away from true saving faith. So yeah, protestants do care about that.

May TRUE peace TRULY be with you.

---

LOL

Got Peace.

Got happiness.

Going to Mass tonight ( Holy Day of Obligation ) along with millions of others worldwide.

The largest Christian Faith for over 2000 years !

---

"Wide is the path that leads to destruction."

"'Peace, peace,' they say,
when there is no peace." (Jeremiah 8:11)

Take what's being said seriously. Stop being tribal and seek what is TRUE. I would have thought that rational, intellectually honest people would be able to see that the fact that your Church teaches that salvation is through Mary would clearly show your Church is false. Purgatory and the Catholic mass are other false teachings that also undermine the true gospel of Jesus as well. If you believe and practice what Roman Catholicism teaches, you're in serious, serious trouble. It's not anything to "LOL" about.

---

Take your arrogance and have a wonderful day

---

Telling truth that hits hard is not "arrogance".

Stop putting up ad hominem defense mechanisms and honestly deal with the truth of what's being said. That is what will make me have a wonderful day.

---

In your infinite arrogance you maintain everything you post as the only truth.

Been playing the same bizarre game for years.

There is no fixing individuals like you.


So have a very nice day.

---

Then show and explain where I'm wrong instead of resorting to your usual ad hominem. If what I'm saying is the truth and that's "arrogance", then you are no less arrogant in saying it's not true, and insulting me instead of actually arguing why. That's been your game.

Fre3dombear said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't think all Catholics believe that salvation is from Mary. That clearly is a false doctrine. Mary was a f sad inner like everyone else, except Jesus, and was not saved unless she repented and believed. Just like everyone else. I have no doubt that she did. She knew who Christ truly was & is better than almost anyone.

---

When has a single CAtholic suggested Mary gives them salvation? Now people just making stuff up like martin luther raging as he schismed which Jesus himself warned against.

---

"no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother" (Pope Leo 13th, Octobri Mense)

"She (Mary) has been made the ladder to paradise, the gate of heaven, the most true mediatrix between God and human beings" (St. Lawrence Justinian)

"Mary's intercession is not only useful but necessary for salvation.... " (St. Alphonsus Ligouri, Doctor of the Roman Catholic Church)

"Mary is the road we must travel to reach God" (Pope Francis, paraphrased)

"God has entrusted the keys and treasures of Heaven to Mary." (St. Thomas Aquinas)

"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." (Pope Pius IX)

Fre3dombear said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't think all Catholics believe that salvation is from Mary. That clearly is a false doctrine. Mary was a f sad inner like everyone else, except Jesus, and was not saved unless she repented and believed. Just like everyone else. I have no doubt that she did. She knew who Christ truly was & is better than almost anyone.

---

When has a single CAtholic suggested Mary gives them salvation? Now people just making stuff up like martin luther raging as he schismed which Jesus himself warned against.

---

Here's more:

"Sinners receive pardon by the intercession of Mary alone." (attributed to St. John Chrysostom, by St. Alphonsus Ligouri)

"No one ever finds Christ but with and through Mary. Whoever seeks Christ apart from Mary seeks Him in vain." (St. Bonaventure)

"All those who seek Mary's protection will be saved for all eternity." (Pope Benedict XV)


Does it look like I'm making stuff up now??

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc

It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"

Seems full of hubris or is it something else?

---

I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.

I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.

---

Matters not to me of course.

If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.

God and the scripture is the only standard.

Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc

Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.

---

Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.

I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Always open to discuss. But your commenta of "you have no scriltural defense of " xyz just shows stubborness. You can disagree sure or say thats not how i interpret it but to say it doesnt exist is being completely blind or simply lying.

Also a lot of it is built on over 1500 years of documented beliefs before some new interpretation came into existence via some schismatics, so forgive all Catholics for collectively sometimes saying huh and wanting to understand how and why a new belief is suddenly valid and should be pivoted to

---

Again, this is where we simply disagree. There are no scriptural references to purgatory, and I would argue the one verse Coke cited in no way supports the idea of its existence. One would think that if there were such a place, Jesus, Paul, Peter and the other NT authors would have made specific mention of it. The fact it is not specifically mentioned, or even alluded to, suggests it doesn't exist.

You can continue to complain when I point out you have no scriptural support for your position. The best way to end that is to provide such support, if it exists.

---

No complaint from me at all. I only observe your behavior and present data, facts, scriptures, thousands of years old texts assembled by the Catholics etc etc.

---

I am not terribly interested in the ancient texts that Catholics have authored. I am interested in the source material by which all ideas should be judged. Again, that is where your arguments are usually lacking.

Some serious pointy-hat paranoia there in that post.

historian said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't think all Catholics believe that salvation is from Mary. That clearly is a false doctrine. Mary was a f sad inner like everyone else, except Jesus, and was not saved unless she repented and believed. Just like everyone else. I have no doubt that she did. She knew who Christ truly was & is better than almost anyone.

---

When has a sungle. CAtholic suggested Mary gives them salvation? Now people just making stuff up like martin luther raging as he schismed which Jesus himself warned against.

---

That's a good question. I'm unsure....

---

No, it's not. It's completely a "head in the sand" question, as the above quotes I provided clearly indicate. The ignorance and/or denial coming from Roman Catholics like FreedomBear is absolutely astounding. If such teachings are not an adequate reason to "schism" from the Roman Catholic Church, then I don't know what would be.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc

It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"

Seems full of hubris or is it something else?

---

I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.

I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.

---

Matters not to me of course.

If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.

God and the scripture is the only standard.

Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc

Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.

---

Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.

I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.

---

Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.

Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh

Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Always open to discuss. But your commenta of "you have no scriltural defense of " xyz just shows stubborness. You can disagree sure or say thats not how i interpret it but to say it doesnt exist is being completely blind or simply lying.

Also a lot of it is built on over 1500 years of documented beliefs before some new interpretation came into existence via some schismatics, so forgive all Catholics for collectively sometimes saying huh and wanting to understand how and why a new belief is suddenly valid and should be pivoted to

---

Again, this is where we simply disagree. There are no scriptural references to purgatory, and I would argue the one verse Coke cited in no way supports the idea of its existence. One would think that if there were such a place, Jesus, Paul, Peter and the other NT authors would have made specific mention of it. The fact it is not specifically mentioned, or even alluded to, suggests it doesn't exist.

You can continue to complain when I point out you have no scriptural support for your position. The best way to end that is to provide such support, if it exists.

---

No complaint from me at all. I only observe your behavior and present data, facts, scriptures, thousands of years old texts assembled by the Catholics etc etc.

---

I am not terribly interested in the ancient texts that Catholics have authored. I am interested in the source material by which all ideas should be judged. Again, that is where your arguments are usually lacking.

---

And that, my friend, is your flaw

You just make up your own interpretation which is why youre all over the place. Many of those interpretstions never existed for thousands of years. Sounds interesting though.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

historian said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't think all Catholics believe that salvation is from Mary. That clearly is a false doctrine. Mary was a f sad inner like everyone else, except Jesus, and was not saved unless she repented and believed. Just like everyone else. I have no doubt that she did. She knew who Christ truly was & is better than almost anyone.

---

When has a sungle. CAtholic suggested Mary gives them salvation? Now people just making stuff up like martin luther raging as he schismed which Jesus himself warned against.

---

That's a good question. I'm unsure....

---

No, it's not. It's completely a "head in the sand" question, as the above quotes I provided clearly indicate. The ignorance and/or denial coming from Roman Catholics like FreedomBear is absolutely astounding. If such teachings are not an adequate reason to "schism" from the Roman Catholic Church, then I don't know what would be.

---

I had not seen those quotes before.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc

It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"

Seems full of hubris or is it something else?

---

I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.

I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.

---

Matters not to me of course.

If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.

God and the scripture is the only standard.

Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc

Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.

---

Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.

I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.

---

Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.

Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh

Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.

---

Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.

Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.

In short, you're not very good at this.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Always open to discuss. But your commenta of "you have no scriltural defense of " xyz just shows stubborness. You can disagree sure or say thats not how i interpret it but to say it doesnt exist is being completely blind or simply lying.

Also a lot of it is built on over 1500 years of documented beliefs before some new interpretation came into existence via some schismatics, so forgive all Catholics for collectively sometimes saying huh and wanting to understand how and why a new belief is suddenly valid and should be pivoted to

---

Again, this is where we simply disagree. There are no scriptural references to purgatory, and I would argue the one verse Coke cited in no way supports the idea of its existence. One would think that if there were such a place, Jesus, Paul, Peter and the other NT authors would have made specific mention of it. The fact it is not specifically mentioned, or even alluded to, suggests it doesn't exist.

You can continue to complain when I point out you have no scriptural support for your position. The best way to end that is to provide such support, if it exists.

---

No complaint from me at all. I only observe your behavior and present data, facts, scriptures, thousands of years old texts assembled by the Catholics etc etc.

---

I am not terribly interested in the ancient texts that Catholics have authored. I am interested in the source material by which all ideas should be judged. Again, that is where your arguments are usually lacking.

---

And that, my friend, is your flaw

You just make up your own interpretation which is why youre all over the place. Many of those interpretstions never existed for thousands of years. Sounds interesting though.

---

Sorry bud but the flaw is your own. When you put man's word over the words of God, you get error. And that is what we regularly see with your posts.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc

It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"

Seems full of hubris or is it something else?

---

I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.

I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.

---

Matters not to me of course.

If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.

God and the scripture is the only standard.

Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc

Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.

---

Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.

I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.

---

Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.

Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh

Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.

---

Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.

Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.

In short, you're not very good at this.

---

Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical

Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc

I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.

Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all

The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Always open to discuss. But your commenta of "you have no scriltural defense of " xyz just shows stubborness. You can disagree sure or say thats not how i interpret it but to say it doesnt exist is being completely blind or simply lying.

Also a lot of it is built on over 1500 years of documented beliefs before some new interpretation came into existence via some schismatics, so forgive all Catholics for collectively sometimes saying huh and wanting to understand how and why a new belief is suddenly valid and should be pivoted to

---

Again, this is where we simply disagree. There are no scriptural references to purgatory, and I would argue the one verse Coke cited in no way supports the idea of its existence. One would think that if there were such a place, Jesus, Paul, Peter and the other NT authors would have made specific mention of it. The fact it is not specifically mentioned, or even alluded to, suggests it doesn't exist.

You can continue to complain when I point out you have no scriptural support for your position. The best way to end that is to provide such support, if it exists.

---

No complaint from me at all. I only observe your behavior and present data, facts, scriptures, thousands of years old texts assembled by the Catholics etc etc.

---

I am not terribly interested in the ancient texts that Catholics have authored. I am interested in the source material by which all ideas should be judged. Again, that is where your arguments are usually lacking.

---

The irony is in your statement…

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Always open to discuss. But your commenta of "you have no scriltural defense of " xyz just shows stubborness. You can disagree sure or say thats not how i interpret it but to say it doesnt exist is being completely blind or simply lying.

Also a lot of it is built on over 1500 years of documented beliefs before some new interpretation came into existence via some schismatics, so forgive all Catholics for collectively sometimes saying huh and wanting to understand how and why a new belief is suddenly valid and should be pivoted to

---

Again, this is where we simply disagree. There are no scriptural references to purgatory, and I would argue the one verse Coke cited in no way supports the idea of its existence. One would think that if there were such a place, Jesus, Paul, Peter and the other NT authors would have made specific mention of it. The fact it is not specifically mentioned, or even alluded to, suggests it doesn't exist.

You can continue to complain when I point out you have no scriptural support for your position. The best way to end that is to provide such support, if it exists.

---

No complaint from me at all. I only observe your behavior and present data, facts, scriptures, thousands of years old texts assembled by the Catholics etc etc.

---

I am not terribly interested in the ancient texts that Catholics have authored. I am interested in the source material by which all ideas should be judged. Again, that is where your arguments are usually lacking.

---

And that, my friend, is your flaw

You just make up your own interpretation which is why youre all over the place. Many of those interpretstions never existed for thousands of years. Sounds interesting though.

---

Sorry bud but the flaw is your own. When you put man's word over the words of God, you get error. And that is what we regularly see with your posts.

---

Not your bud. Just someone sharing knowledge. The name calling etc runs rampant by yall when people get triggered here.

Not taking any man's word over God's ever. Never have. Never will.

Where that thought of yours breaks down is simply explained. For example "brothers", "paradise", osas, sola scriptura, sola fide, mary, purgatory y mas. The examples are rather lengthy.

You actually end up Arguing with yourself because ultimately you get to Some mans opinion of the english (and usually not even the greek as weve pointed out many times), yours, calvins, luthers etc as defense of your opinion of what you think God is saying. Very often it is likely incorrect as explained many times logically and going back to the earliest understandings.

"I'm actually very good at this"

When you said that, you made it clear it's not about Mothra, it's about you.

I don't care for Mothra's tone in that exchange, but your response won him the point, seeing as you two are just playing for ego right now.

Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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KaiBear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Mothra said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc

It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"

Seems full of hubris or is it something else?

---

I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.

I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.

---

Matters not to me of course.

If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.

God and the scripture is the only standard.

Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc

Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.

---

Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.

I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.

---

Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.

Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh

Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.

---

Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.

Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.

In short, you're not very good at this.

---

Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical

Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc

I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.

Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all

The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.

---

You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.

As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.

We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.

historian said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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historian said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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historian said:

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I don't think all Catholics believe that salvation is from Mary. That clearly is a false doctrine. Mary was a f sad inner like everyone else, except Jesus, and was not saved unless she repented and believed. Just like everyone else. I have no doubt that she did. She knew who Christ truly was & is better than almost anyone.

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When has a sungle. CAtholic suggested Mary gives them salvation? Now people just making stuff up like martin luther raging as he schismed which Jesus himself warned against.

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That's a good question. I'm unsure....

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No, it's not. It's completely a "head in the sand" question, as the above quotes I provided clearly indicate. The ignorance and/or denial coming from Roman Catholics like FreedomBear is absolutely astounding. If such teachings are not an adequate reason to "schism" from the Roman Catholic Church, then I don't know what would be.

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I had not seen those quotes before.

---

I will bet that not many Roman Catholics know about them either. Especially the ones who aren't really deep into Catholicism but instead are cradle or cultural Catholics. On the surface, Catholicism presents itself as Christianity to these people, and they don't notice. But it is my belief that those quotes above are the end goal of that Church. They want to warm people up slowly to the idea that Mary is their salvation. They can't make that sudden declaration from the beginning because it'll scare people off, so they prep their minds to slowly accept it. Why do you think that Roman Catholicism has their followers pray the rosary where they chant about Mary over and over and over? It's a self hypnosis. It's meant to condition the mind to eventually accept what Roman Catholicism really wants them to believe, which is that Mary is their god. Roman Catholicism is ancient pagan Mother goddess worship re-awakened. The woman that Catholics pray to and worship is NOT the real Mary, but rather the same pagan goddess behind Ishtar, a.k.a. Ashtoreth in the Old Testament. Ashtoreth is called the "queen of heaven" in the Old Testament, and worship of her is what caused God to harshly punish the Israelites. And Roman Catholicism calls Mary the "Queen of Heaven". It's no coincidence.

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc

It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"

Seems full of hubris or is it something else?

---

I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.

I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.

---

Matters not to me of course.

If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.

God and the scripture is the only standard.

Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc

Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.

---

Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.

I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.

---

Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.

Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh

Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.

---

Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.

Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.

In short, you're not very good at this.

---

Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical

Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc

I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.

Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all

The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.

---

You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.

As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.

We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.

---

Waiting for the thread where Catholics are attacking Prots. Insisting what Prots believe or don't believe. Claiming that Prots are in 'mortal danger'.

Been a couple of years...still have never seen it.

Mass yesterday evening was great. The Priest is visting from Nigeria. Obviously a very kind and gentle man; hope he stays with us for a few years.

Meanwhile everyone on this thread realizes no one is going to alter the life long views of anyone else. Especially on a little visited free message board.



Oh well....have fun.

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Catholics think they have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

They think like lemmings and assume that Prots follow Luther as lemmings as well. We don't.

---

LOL

Actually Catholics don't worry about what Prots think.

Very content with our own Faith.


Peace Be With You.

---

True dat

Best we can do is explain it and hope to bring some back to the church while theres still time

---

This post is proof positive of what tinfoil hat explained. You guys feel you have a monopoly on the truth and it's your way or the highway to hell.

I just wish you were able to do a better job explaining your anti-scriptural positions. But you can't. Never have been able to.

I hope you find Jesus.

---

Id also add, just take Coke's post on purgatory which ive also done here several times with ad nauseum explanation etc

It will go unrrsponded to and youll claim "nobody cited this or that" and "i wish yall would do a better job explaining"

Seems full of hubris or is it something else?

---

I agree you've tried to explain its existence multiple times. The problem is, your arguments are unconvincing, and are not supported by the scriptural record.

I will say this every time you make a specious and unsupported argument. If you don't want to hear that anymore, than I would suggest you stop doing it.

---

Matters not to me of course.

If you can look at the words and say theres no place or time that rhe words it says must happen, thats not my burden.

God and the scripture is the only standard.

Your standard response is it doesnt say that. Which you are free to believe of course. You camt lrove the otherwise but believe osas etc

Again , your burden and free will to choose to believe or not believe. I won't judge you not that you care and you shouldnt but some on here say people sre judging them, i wint be ine of those. Ill only share the words, standards, voluminous writings if those that walked with Christ, his apostles etc.

---

Again, the reason that is my standard response is because your arguments are so often devoid of any scriptural support for your positions. This is yet another example.

I promise you I would stop pointing it out if you were able to make cogent arguments, supported by scripture.

---

Why promise you would stop? Thats not an objective i have. Ive already provided innumerable scriptural examples on many topics kicked around here on this board.

Youre not necessarily my target audience as youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of….nu uh

Its all there for you to consider. What you do with it, as God says, is up to you.

---

Incredibly, not a single thing you said in this post was true.

Coke at least tries to present scriptural support for his position. You rarely do that, and the scripture you do post is typically irrelevant to the topic.

In short, you're not very good at this.

---

Youre taking it personal. Dont. Its making your comments nonsensical

Ive made countless posts of chapter and verse. Had to block a guy / girl that started acting very weird. We can disagree. Thats fine. But youre incorrect. Dozens and dozens of posts of chapter, vwrse, supporting background, church father teachings etc etc etc

I get some yall know better than even the genius church fathers who spent their whole lives focused inky on these topics. Yall tell us all the time.

Im actually very good at this and speak on it quite often. Not concerned of your opinion on me at all

The scriptural defense is light years beyond your belief of osas and sola scriptura. Thats where martin luther did some souls very wrong sadly.

---

You decided to make it personal when you made these comments about me above: "youre just a clam with a one trick pony response to any scripture of". That is making it personal, my friend. I'd suggest you lack self-awareness.

As stated above, we simply disagree that you are able to provide scriptural support for your position. Sure, you will cite to verses from time to time, but typically, they either don't state what you claim they state, or are completely irrelevant to the topic you're arguing. This thread is no different. You have failed to provide even a single verse supporting your misguided belief in purgatory.

We disagree that you are good at making cogent arguments, backed by scripture.

---

The guy that he blocked was me. I pressed him on his interpretations of the Bible that he said supported his view, and showed they were incorrect or faulty. He tried to detract and divert, but I wouldn't let him, I kept on him to get an answer. That's what he calls "acting weird". He knew he couldn't answer me, so he got angry and personally attacked me. I can point to exactly where in this forum that happened. Now he just pretends he had to block me because of MY bad behavior. He's found a convenient way to not have to deal with inconvenient facts.

Quote:

---

Waiting for the thread where Catholics are attacking Prots. Insisting what Prots believe or don't believe. Claiming that Prots are in 'mortal danger'.

Been a couple of years...still have never seen it.

Mass yesterday evening was great. The Priest is visting from Nigeria. Obviously a very kind and gentle man; hope he stays with us for a few years.

Meanwhile everyone on this thread realizes no one is going to alter the life long views of anyone else. Especially on a little visited free message board.

---

It isn't "attacking" Roman Catholics if it's alerting them to the deception that's leading them away from the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Quite the opposite.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Quote:

---

Waiting for the thread where Catholics are attacking Prots. Insisting what Prots believe or don't believe. Claiming that Prots are in 'mortal danger'.

Been a couple of years...still have never seen it.

Mass yesterday evening was great. The Priest is visting from Nigeria. Obviously a very kind and gentle man; hope he stays with us for a few years.

Meanwhile everyone on this thread realizes no one is going to alter the life long views of anyone else. Especially on a little visited free message board.

---

It isn't "attacking" Roman Catholics if it's alerting them to the deception that's leading them away from the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Quite the opposite.

---

As always you remain the noble, unerringly accurate intellectual of all things Catholic.

Amusing how Catholics don't posses such a compulsion in regards to Prots.

Possibly for the same reason Alabama football fans never concern themselves with UTEP athletics.

Meanwhile it's almost time to pick up our 3 grandsons.
Ages 9, 6 and 3. Dinner at the Longhorn Steakhouse and ice cream at Coldstones.

Guess we all have fun in our own way.