Most (all?) protestants believe purgatory does not exist correct? (Assuming adhering to general protestant doctrine)

Purgatory is exclusively a Roman Catholic doctrine adopted in the councils Council of Florence (1439 A.D.): and Trent (1563 A.D).

It is not accepted by Orthodox or Protestants.

Not in the Bible, so no.

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

Fre3dombear said:

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Most (all?) protestants believe purgatory does not exist correct? (Assuming adhering to general protestant doctrine)

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It existed in 1980. I skied there with YoungLife and I'm pretty sure YoungLife is a protestant group.

I know he loved beer, so there's that for me theologically speaking.

So…the answer is yes.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Most (all?) protestants believe purgatory does not exist correct? (Assuming adhering to general protestant doctrine)

---

It existed in 1980. I skied there with YoungLife and I'm pretty sure YoungLife is a protestant group.

---

There is a Purgatory Road in the Texas Hill Country. Not the same thing.

I always heard that the idea was invented by Dante. I never bothered to find out how accurate that was.

He believed the Earth moving around the sun contradicted scripture as well as most heliocentrism. It makes sense his followers have about the same level of critical thinking skills

ron.reagan said:

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He believed the Earth moving around the sun contradicted scripture as well as most heliocentrism. It makes sense his followers have about the same level of critical thinking skills

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Thanks for this comment. I'm a fan of level headed responses
















and asinine ones like this.

Don't know. Don't care.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

ron.reagan said:

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He believed the Earth moving around the sun contradicted scripture as well as most heliocentrism. It makes sense his followers have about the same level of critical thinking skills

---

Or maybe he followed the general scientific and theological consensus just like everyone else did 500 years ago. Many people do the same thing today, with about equal critical thinking.

It is quite ironic to imply that the man who started the Protestant Reformation had minimal critical thinking skills. Like many people then and now his scientific knowledge was probably quite limited.

Mothra said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Given the 40,000 plus examples and flavors of protestantism it's a discussion point from a Directional belief held by most Protestants typically. Casts the widest net for intelectual discussion and forms a starting point. He is the guy credited with creating the protestant reformation which led to whichever flavor you / most in that vein adhere to. Or maybe protestants tend to disagree with that?

Its akin to saying "Catholics" which is much narrower in standard deviation yet still has different beliefs and nuance at times though admittedly much smaller given the hierarchical leadership structure.

Not something id take offense to but if on a religious message board would be open to discussing, something this board obviously struggles a bit with.

Other boards are much more intellectually inclined to debate and discuss and defend positions. Always interesting to compare and contrast. Maybe due to the "Baylorness" of the crowd here i suppose.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Given the 40,000 plus examples and flavors of protestantism it's a discussion point from a Directional belief held by most Protestants typically. Casts the widest net for intelectual discussion and forms a starting point. He is the guy credited with creating the protestant reformation which led to whichever flavor you / most in that vein adhere to. Or maybe protestants tend to disagree with that?

Its akin to saying "Catholics" which is much narrower in standard deviation yet still has different beliefs and nuance at times though admittedly much smaller given the hierarchical leadership structure.

Not something id take offense to but if on a religious message board would be open to discussing, something this board obviously struggles a bit with.

Other boards are much more intellectually inclined to debate and discuss and defend positions. Always interesting to compare and contrast. Maybe due to the "Baylorness" of the crowd here i suppose.

---

I am not sure something as inane as the topic you posed is worthy of much discussion. Perhaps a better topic would have been - purgatory - does it exist or not? And as pointed out above, there is no scriptural support for purgatory.

Whether ML believed in purgatory - which btw it sounds like he did and then he didn't - seems irrelevant to any theological issues.

historian said:

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ron.reagan said:

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He believed the Earth moving around the sun contradicted scripture as well as most heliocentrism. It makes sense his followers have about the same level of critical thinking skills

---

Or maybe he followed the general scientific and theological consensus just like everyone else did 500 years ago. Many people do the same thing today, with about equal critical thinking.

It is quite ironic to imply that the man who started the Protestant Reformation had minimal critical thinking skills. Like many people then and now his scientific knowledge was probably quite limited.

---

Nothing says reformation like sticking to the general consensus.

Must you repeatedly display incredible ignorance?

The Protestant Reformation was theological not scientific. It quickly became political as well. In theology, Luther's actions created a new consensus through much of Europe. It was never about science.

historian said:

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Must you repeatedly display incredible ignorance?

The Protestant Reformation was theological not scientific. It quickly became political as well. In theology, Luther's actions created a new consensus through much of Europe. It was never about science.

---

You are the adult that believes in fairy tales. Your entire life is based on misinformation. While I pity you I'm not going to let you go around calling people ignorant that are actually capable of escaping the gravitational pull of generational ignorance. Grow up before you die of old age.

Projection

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Given the 40,000 plus examples and flavors of protestantism it's a discussion point from a Directional belief held by most Protestants typically. Casts the widest net for intelectual discussion and forms a starting point. He is the guy credited with creating the protestant reformation which led to whichever flavor you / most in that vein adhere to. Or maybe protestants tend to disagree with that?

Its akin to saying "Catholics" which is much narrower in standard deviation yet still has different beliefs and nuance at times though admittedly much smaller given the hierarchical leadership structure.

Not something id take offense to but if on a religious message board would be open to discussing, something this board obviously struggles a bit with.

Other boards are much more intellectually inclined to debate and discuss and defend positions. Always interesting to compare and contrast. Maybe due to the "Baylorness" of the crowd here i suppose.

---

I am not sure something as inane as the topic you posed is worthy of much discussion. Perhaps a better topic would have been - purgatory - does it exist or not? And as pointed out above, there is no scriptural support for purgatory.

Whether ML believed in purgatory - which btw it sounds like he did and then he didn't - seems irrelevant to any theological issues.

---

Of course there is which is why it is a thing.

You dont have to comment on topics you feel are unworthy. Hopefully we will all be there some day. If not, thats not good news.

Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Given the 40,000 plus examples and flavors of protestantism it's a discussion point from a Directional belief held by most Protestants typically. Casts the widest net for intelectual discussion and forms a starting point. He is the guy credited with creating the protestant reformation which led to whichever flavor you / most in that vein adhere to. Or maybe protestants tend to disagree with that?

Its akin to saying "Catholics" which is much narrower in standard deviation yet still has different beliefs and nuance at times though admittedly much smaller given the hierarchical leadership structure.

Not something id take offense to but if on a religious message board would be open to discussing, something this board obviously struggles a bit with.

Other boards are much more intellectually inclined to debate and discuss and defend positions. Always interesting to compare and contrast. Maybe due to the "Baylorness" of the crowd here i suppose.

---

I am not sure something as inane as the topic you posed is worthy of much discussion. Perhaps a better topic would have been - purgatory - does it exist or not? And as pointed out above, there is no scriptural support for purgatory.

Whether ML believed in purgatory - which btw it sounds like he did and then he didn't - seems irrelevant to any theological issues.

---

Of course there is which is why it is a thing.

You dont have to comment on topics you feel are unworthy. Hopefully we will all be there some day. If not, thats not good news.

---

I prefer Winter Park

Vail

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Given the 40,000 plus examples and flavors of protestantism it's a discussion point from a Directional belief held by most Protestants typically. Casts the widest net for intelectual discussion and forms a starting point. He is the guy credited with creating the protestant reformation which led to whichever flavor you / most in that vein adhere to. Or maybe protestants tend to disagree with that?

Its akin to saying "Catholics" which is much narrower in standard deviation yet still has different beliefs and nuance at times though admittedly much smaller given the hierarchical leadership structure.

Not something id take offense to but if on a religious message board would be open to discussing, something this board obviously struggles a bit with.

Other boards are much more intellectually inclined to debate and discuss and defend positions. Always interesting to compare and contrast. Maybe due to the "Baylorness" of the crowd here i suppose.

---

I am not sure something as inane as the topic you posed is worthy of much discussion. Perhaps a better topic would have been - purgatory - does it exist or not? And as pointed out above, there is no scriptural support for purgatory.

Whether ML believed in purgatory - which btw it sounds like he did and then he didn't - seems irrelevant to any theological issues.

---

Of course there is which is why it is a thing.

You dont have to comment on topics you feel are unworthy. Hopefully we will all be there some day. If not, thats not good news.

---

I prefer Winter Park

---

Done it many times but powder mountain more fun

Mothra said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

It's also humorous that this person has "blocked" me in order to avoid debating me because he had no answer to my arguments, and here, he's criticizing us for not being open to discussion. Wow.

There's something really wrong with a person who actually operates in a reality where they believe that by "blocking" inconvenient facts, it stops them from existing. See his comment ("yes, Luther believed in purgatory") after I had just directly quoted Luther rejecting purgatory in the strongest terms. He's carved out his own reality where none of his beliefs can be challenged. This part isn't humorous, it's actually quite sad.

ron.reagan said:

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historian said:

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Must you repeatedly display incredible ignorance?

The Protestant Reformation was theological not scientific. It quickly became political as well. In theology, Luther's actions created a new consensus through much of Europe. It was never about science.

---

You are the adult that believes in fairy tales. Your entire life is based on misinformation. While I pity you I'm not going to let you go around calling people ignorant that are actually capable of escaping the gravitational pull of generational ignorance. Grow up before you die of old age.

---

You escaped the gravitational pull and ended up in dark, cold, empty space.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ron.reagan said:

---

historian said:

---

Must you repeatedly display incredible ignorance?

The Protestant Reformation was theological not scientific. It quickly became political as well. In theology, Luther's actions created a new consensus through much of Europe. It was never about science.

---

You are the adult that believes in fairy tales. Your entire life is based on misinformation. While I pity you I'm not going to let you go around calling people ignorant that are actually capable of escaping the gravitational pull of generational ignorance. Grow up before you die of old age.

---

You escaped the gravitational pull and ended up in dark, cold, empty space.

---

Not that far from the truth. But the skiing here is amazing

Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Given the 40,000 plus examples and flavors of protestantism it's a discussion point from a Directional belief held by most Protestants typically. Casts the widest net for intelectual discussion and forms a starting point. He is the guy credited with creating the protestant reformation which led to whichever flavor you / most in that vein adhere to. Or maybe protestants tend to disagree with that?

Its akin to saying "Catholics" which is much narrower in standard deviation yet still has different beliefs and nuance at times though admittedly much smaller given the hierarchical leadership structure.

Not something id take offense to but if on a religious message board would be open to discussing, something this board obviously struggles a bit with.

Other boards are much more intellectually inclined to debate and discuss and defend positions. Always interesting to compare and contrast. Maybe due to the "Baylorness" of the crowd here i suppose.

---

I am not sure something as inane as the topic you posed is worthy of much discussion. Perhaps a better topic would have been - purgatory - does it exist or not? And as pointed out above, there is no scriptural support for purgatory.

Whether ML believed in purgatory - which btw it sounds like he did and then he didn't - seems irrelevant to any theological issues.

---

Of course there is which is why it is a thing.

You dont have to comment on topics you feel are unworthy. Hopefully we will all be there some day. If not, thats not good news.

---

This is yet another one of your positions on which you have no scriptural proof, which is of course a pattern with you.

I can know for sure I will be in Heaven someday. So can you. There is no scriptural support whatsoever for purgatory.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

It's also humorous that this person has "blocked" me in order to avoid debating me because he had no answer to my arguments, and here, he's criticizing us for not being open to discussion. Wow.

There's something really wrong with a person who actually operates in a reality where they believe that by "blocking" inconvenient facts, it stops them from existing. See his comment ("yes, Luther believed in purgatory") after I had just directly quoted Luther rejecting purgatory in the strongest terms. He's carved out his own reality where none of his beliefs can be challenged. This part isn't humorous, it's actually quite sad.

---

Yup.

ron.reagan said:

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historian said:

---

Must you repeatedly display incredible ignorance?

The Protestant Reformation was theological not scientific. It quickly became political as well. In theology, Luther's actions created a new consensus through much of Europe. It was never about science.

---

You are the adult that believes in fairy tales. Your entire life is based on misinformation. While I pity you I'm not going to let you go around calling people ignorant that are actually capable of escaping the gravitational pull of generational ignorance. Grow up before you die of old age.

---

Is it any more fantastical than the idea that something came from nothing, or that complex life forms came from inanimate matter?

Takes a lot of faith to be an atheist.

ron.reagan said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ron.reagan said:

---

historian said:

---

Must you repeatedly display incredible ignorance?

The Protestant Reformation was theological not scientific. It quickly became political as well. In theology, Luther's actions created a new consensus through much of Europe. It was never about science.

---

You are the adult that believes in fairy tales. Your entire life is based on misinformation. While I pity you I'm not going to let you go around calling people ignorant that are actually capable of escaping the gravitational pull of generational ignorance. Grow up before you die of old age.

---

You escaped the gravitational pull and ended up in dark, cold, empty space.

---

Not that far from the truth. But the skiing here is amazing

---

Never found the skiing in Jackson Hole to be worth the cost.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

---

Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

---

Given the 40,000 plus examples and flavors of protestantism it's a discussion point from a Directional belief held by most Protestants typically. Casts the widest net for intelectual discussion and forms a starting point. He is the guy credited with creating the protestant reformation which led to whichever flavor you / most in that vein adhere to. Or maybe protestants tend to disagree with that?

Its akin to saying "Catholics" which is much narrower in standard deviation yet still has different beliefs and nuance at times though admittedly much smaller given the hierarchical leadership structure.

Not something id take offense to but if on a religious message board would be open to discussing, something this board obviously struggles a bit with.

Other boards are much more intellectually inclined to debate and discuss and defend positions. Always interesting to compare and contrast. Maybe due to the "Baylorness" of the crowd here i suppose.

---

I am not sure something as inane as the topic you posed is worthy of much discussion. Perhaps a better topic would have been - purgatory - does it exist or not? And as pointed out above, there is no scriptural support for purgatory.

Whether ML believed in purgatory - which btw it sounds like he did and then he didn't - seems irrelevant to any theological issues.

---

Of course there is which is why it is a thing.

You dont have to comment on topics you feel are unworthy. Hopefully we will all be there some day. If not, thats not good news.

---

This is yet another one of your positions on which you have no scriptural proof, which is of course a pattern with you.

I can know for sure I will be in Heaven someday. So can you. There is no scriptural support whatsoever for purgatory.

---

I always provide scriptural proof, tradition proof and / or church fathers / magisterium proof.

Just cuz yiu say "nuh uh" 1) doesn't make you right and 2) doesn't mean i didnt.

Then your team basically starts ranting and calling names. Pointless waste of time i dont engage in when they get all triggered up in here.

You can osas right past the graveyard as you whistle as well with no scripture to back it up but to each their own.

Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Martin Luther believed in purgatory at first (after all, he was a Roman Catholic) but ultimately came to reject it, a view he held until he died:

"Purgatory is the greatest falsehood because it is based on ungodliness and unbelief; for they deny that faith saves, and they maintain that satisfaction for sins is the cause of salvation." (Genesis 25:5; AE 4)

"Of purgatory there is no mention in Holy Scripture; it is a lie of the devil, in order that the papists may have some market days and snares for catching money." (I don't have the source, but found it here: https://credomag.com/2013/02/martin-luther-on-the-doctrine-of-purgatory/ )


I think the OP would do well to realize a couple of things: 1) Protestantism is not Lutherism - it's not a new church founded on the beliefs of Martin Luther, and 2) don't be too hasty and post something you just learned about on Catholic apologists' websites or something thinking it's a "gotcha" against the other side, without looking into it more deeply for yourself first. It'll save you the embarassment.

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Always humorous to me to see this particular poster treat protestants as some monolithic group who adhere to all of Luther's beliefs.

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Given the 40,000 plus examples and flavors of protestantism it's a discussion point from a Directional belief held by most Protestants typically. Casts the widest net for intelectual discussion and forms a starting point. He is the guy credited with creating the protestant reformation which led to whichever flavor you / most in that vein adhere to. Or maybe protestants tend to disagree with that?

Its akin to saying "Catholics" which is much narrower in standard deviation yet still has different beliefs and nuance at times though admittedly much smaller given the hierarchical leadership structure.

Not something id take offense to but if on a religious message board would be open to discussing, something this board obviously struggles a bit with.

Other boards are much more intellectually inclined to debate and discuss and defend positions. Always interesting to compare and contrast. Maybe due to the "Baylorness" of the crowd here i suppose.

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I am not sure something as inane as the topic you posed is worthy of much discussion. Perhaps a better topic would have been - purgatory - does it exist or not? And as pointed out above, there is no scriptural support for purgatory.

Whether ML believed in purgatory - which btw it sounds like he did and then he didn't - seems irrelevant to any theological issues.

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Of course there is which is why it is a thing.

You dont have to comment on topics you feel are unworthy. Hopefully we will all be there some day. If not, thats not good news.

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This is yet another one of your positions on which you have no scriptural proof, which is of course a pattern with you.

I can know for sure I will be in Heaven someday. So can you. There is no scriptural support whatsoever for purgatory.

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I always provide scriptural proof, tradition proof and / or church fathers / magisterium proof.

Just cuz yiu say "nuh uh" 1) doesn't make you right and 2) doesn't mean i didnt.

Then your team basically starts ranting and calling names. Pointless waste of time i dont engage in when they get all triggered up in here.

You can osas right past the graveyard as you whistle as well with no scripture to back it up but to each their own.

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I didn't say you don't often times cite proof other than scripture. I said you often times lack scriptural proof for your positions, which is a factual statement.

This issue is no different. You can't cite to any scriptural support for your position that there's any such thing as purgatory.

This thread is celestial hades

ron.reagan said:

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historian said:

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Must you repeatedly display incredible ignorance?

The Protestant Reformation was theological not scientific. It quickly became political as well. In theology, Luther's actions created a new consensus through much of Europe. It was never about science.

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You are the adult that believes in fairy tales. Your entire life is based on misinformation. While I pity you I'm not going to let you go around calling people ignorant that are actually capable of escaping the gravitational pull of generational ignorance. Grow up before you die of old age.

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Just because you may have been raised with really bad / simplistic / overly strict theology, don't attribute it to everyone who has any amount of religious belief. There are good reasons that has been a commonality of man pretty much across cultures and time.

ron.reagan said:

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historian said:

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Must you repeatedly display incredible ignorance?

The Protestant Reformation was theological not scientific. It quickly became political as well. In theology, Luther's actions created a new consensus through much of Europe. It was never about science.

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You are the adult that believes in fairy tales. Your entire life is based on misinformation. While I pity you I'm not going to let you go around calling people ignorant that are actually capable of escaping the gravitational pull of generational ignorance. Grow up before you die of old age.

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Ron, what do you think about Jesus?
Real, fictional
wise, crazy

What is your opinion and how did you arrive at that opinion.

I'm not asking about your view of his followers, I'm just asking about your view of Jesus.

(and just to save the snide remarks, I'm speaking about Jesus of Nazareth and not some guy that you may say is trying to avoid ICE agents)