Are you comfortable with the drug strikes?

75,398 Views | 1578 Replies | Last: 2 hrs ago by boognish_bear
Sam Lowry
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GrowlTowel said:

ATL Bear said:

KaiBear said:

They kill US citizens by the Thousands with their drugs for profit


Yet Dem partisans ***** when we save our people.

Insanity

People kill themselves with drugs. Let's be honest in this debate.

And while we are being honest, let us agree that when you choose a life in the drug trade, death is a known work related hazard.

The rules don't exist to protect the bad guys. They exist to protect innocent people who can and will be targeted, through malice or mistake, unless there is accountability.
Assassin
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FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high

it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trump is within his rights

Yes he is.
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.

Only if the Constitution of Sam is in effect. However it's the Constitution of the USA
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
GrowlTowel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.


You can't say that until a judge tells you that, remember?
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GrowlTowel said:

Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.


You can't say that until a judge tells you that, remember?

Sam has turned into a troll..


Limited IQ Redneck in PU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

Porteroso said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high

It's already been said. First, we have no right to be blowing up whoever we want in international waters. We have exactly the same rights as every other country in international waters.

Second, the authorization to kill terrorists in the Middle East should not apply here. It is still on the table on a technicality, though Congress has voted to repeal it. But it should not apply.

Third, we do not normally just trust the government to kill people based upon its word. Our government is designed to investigate, to hold people accountable, with facts. We have 10% of our Navy near Venezuela, so you cannot tell me boarding these guys and making sure they are cartel members with drugs on board is out of the question. And if it were out of the question it would still be ethically questionable to blow people like that up.

Fourth, as Rand Paul said, we are wrong 25% of the time, when it comes to guessing what boats have drugs. So not even our government claims we are always getting it right.

Lastly, there is the concern of precedent set. If you have an immobile Congress, who will let the President do whatever they want, and an authorization that the President says lets him kill anyone he/she says is a terrorist, where does it stop?

The average zealot trusts their tribe to tell them who is a terrorist or not, but the average human with a brain has an inherent distrust in government. These days, both parties are small government parties when the bad guys are in charge.

We have to assume that power corrupts, and this is essentially the power to kill at will. It is a very, very bad idea to give government that power.

Post of the Week.

Tied for first with ATLbear's latest post here.
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.


I agree that it does not sound right that the President can do all this unilaterally. i personally agree with you and ATL Near. But, i have yet to see anything that overrules the Executive Order determining a group to be a terror organization. I even found Sec of State can do it.

Please show where it is not within his power. I do not want the Millers of the world using the US military as hit squads. What starts as a group we agree with should be stopped often slides from there.

Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

if they're carrying TDA or other drug cartel assets....yes, we can.

He did not designate drug cartels as terror organizations as a virtue posture to mollify his base. He did it to free up options to act. Legal action has been quite muted (in no small part because his position is so legally sound). If not already filed, there will be lawsuits to challenge his actions. The only ones which have much likelihood of success are the ones which will challenge the basis of his declaration - that somehow violent trans-national drug cartels with significant military capabilities which are embedded with one or more foreign regimes and are liaising with other hostile regimes/entities, are not a threat to national security of the USA.

Good luck winning that one.

What he's doing to these cartel boats is just one of many things he's doing to force the Venezuelan regime to change policy or be changed.
Realitybites
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs

FLBear5630
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whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

if they're carrying TDA or other drug cartel assets....yes, we can.

He did not designate drug cartels as terror organizations as a virtue posture to mollify his base. He did it to free up options to act. Legal action has been quite muted (in no small part because his position is so legally sound). If not already filed, there will be lawsuits to challenge his actions. The only ones which have much likelihood of success are the ones which will challenge the basis of his declaration - that somehow violent trans-national drug cartels with significant military capabilities which are embedded with one or more foreign regimes and are liaising with other hostile regimes/entities, are not a threat to national security of the USA.

Good luck winning that one.

What he's doing to these cartel boats is just one of many things he's doing to force the Venezuelan regime to change policy or be changed.

I was agreeing with you. I can't find anything restricting his declaring a group a terrorist and using the military outside US borders.

The Hague may disagree, but that is different.

Do I have to get lectured agreeing with you too?
drahthaar
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Mitch Blood Green said:

drahthaar said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

KaiBear said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-strikes-another-boat-accused-of-carrying-drugs-near-venezuela-killing-6-trump-says

Luv em.

Hope Trump eventually bombs the living **** out of all the major drug labs throughout central and south America.

Would save the lives of tens of thousnds of Americans.


You comfortable that they are "drug dealers?" What if they aren't?

My gut tells me there was hard intel coming from within the country regarding these boats.


Mine tells me those boats do not have the fuel capacity to travel from Venezuela to the US.

I'd also like to see China better control the production and movement of the chemicals used to make fentanyl.

Until they (China) do, I bet we won't be bombing their ships.

Agreed on the fuel issues and China.. But that far offshore makes one ask, or should, where were they headed? Not to fish an offshore bank, for sure. Likely making a "deposit" but where and to whom?
ATL Bear
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This is just a new point on the escalation continuum that has failed every step along the way. This "war" has only gotten more violent and riskier to the U.S. and its citizens at each point the stakes were raised.

Maybe once we start sending American soldiers home in body bags from the coca leaf jungle wars all because some schmucks need to ingest poison to feel good, we'll start questioning the strategy.
Robert Wilson
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ATL Bear said:

This is just a new point on the escalation continuum that has failed every step along the way. This "war" has only gotten more violent and riskier to the U.S. and its citizens at each point the stakes were raised.

Maybe once we start sending American soldiers home in body bags from the coca leaf jungle wars all because some schmucks need to ingest poison to feel good, we'll start questioning the strategy.


I'm totally down with the general sentiment that the market is going to provide things for which there is a demand. But I think you're also oversimplifying.

You want to suggest some sort of broad legalization and regulation of the drug trade, so that we are keeping the money here and arguably making product safer rather than enriching narco terrorists throughout Mexico and Central America, while tacitly encouraging overdoses on fentanyl? I'm all ears. But we both know that we as a country are nowhere near ready for that.

And given where we are, I'm totally fine letting the narcos know that while they are getting rich helping a certain portion of our population kill itself, they might just get blown the **** up. That seems like a fair occupational hazard.

Maybe that pushes the market in a slightly less unhealthy direction, maybe not, but it's good sport, and I am game to find out. There is probably some net benefit to the criminal element in those countries at least being aware that if they become too brazen we just might blow them up.
Mitch Blood Green
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Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?
FLBear5630
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Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

You are going to see them put hostages on these boats. They will put women and children for the ride, maybe even the promise of dropping off on American soil.
GrowlTowel
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FLBear5630 said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

You are going to see them put hostages on these boats. They will put women and children for the ride, maybe even the promise of dropping off on American soil.


Maybe, but those women and children are investment properties to them.
Assassin
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Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

But it was only a 3 hour tour...
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
ATL Bear
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Robert Wilson said:

ATL Bear said:

This is just a new point on the escalation continuum that has failed every step along the way. This "war" has only gotten more violent and riskier to the U.S. and its citizens at each point the stakes were raised.

Maybe once we start sending American soldiers home in body bags from the coca leaf jungle wars all because some schmucks need to ingest poison to feel good, we'll start questioning the strategy.


I'm totally down with the general sentiment that the market is going to provide things for which there is a demand. But I think you're also oversimplifying.

You want to suggest some sort of broad legalization and regulation of the drug trade, so that we are keeping the money here and arguably making product safer rather than enriching narco terrorists throughout Mexico and Central America, while tacitly encouraging overdoses on fentanyl? I'm all ears. But we both know that we as a country are nowhere near ready for that.

And given where we are, I'm totally fine letting the narcos know that while they are getting rich helping a certain portion of our population kill itself, they might just get blown the **** up. That seems like a fair occupational hazard.

Maybe that pushes the market in a slightly less unhealthy direction, maybe not, but it's good sport, and I am game to find out. There is probably some net benefit to the criminal element in those countries at least being aware that if they become too brazen we just might blow them up.
I'm not oversimplifying the solution, I'm only simplifying the explanation of the problem to the economics. As to the solutions, maybe we're not being creative. To try and beat the drug cartels at their own game would likely prove difficult, so simplistic "legalization" isn't a real answer. As I said earlier, you have to defeat the need for them.

I think one thing we could do from a legalization perspective is to possibly mimic Portugal in that trafficking is still illegal, but possession of all types of drugs up to a certain amount from weed to heroin is not a crime. And they attack it from a public health perspective.

The more radical ideas might revolve around allowing schedule II type substances such as oxycodone related drugs to other types that are prescription available commercially but are similarly heavily sought after in the black market (fentanyl happens to be one of them) to be sold at dispensaries. Another radical idea is to engage pharmaceutical companies in creating, for lack of a better parallel, a series of drugs intended to provide the need for a high like methadone but safer than illicit provided drugs with varying effects. Subsidize it so it's cheap and readily available, and maybe put some strings around it after extended use like a required monthly treatment meeting. Again, I'm not trying to answer the moral or ethical concerns of drug distribution and use, I'm thinking in terms of shifting the market so we reduce/remove the distribution dangers, which gives better opportunity to control/change the demand aspect.
ATL Bear
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FLBear5630 said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

You are going to see them put hostages on these boats. They will put women and children for the ride, maybe even the promise of dropping off on American soil.
They already traffic humans and drugs together on many different routes. No reason they can't do the same with these boats.

The question I have is why don't they just follow the boat and intercept at the destination? Don't you then take out even more of the trafficking participants?
Assassin
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ATL Bear said:

FLBear5630 said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

You are going to see them put hostages on these boats. They will put women and children for the ride, maybe even the promise of dropping off on American soil.

They already traffic humans and drugs together on many different routes. No reason they can't do the same with these boats.

The question I have is why don't they just follow the boat and intercept at the destination? Don't you then take out even more of the trafficking participants?

Ah, the blueprint from the decades old "War on Drugs" - it was so successful, eh?

This is Trump's "War on Drugs". Seems to be a tad more successful.
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
FLBear5630
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ATL Bear said:

FLBear5630 said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

You are going to see them put hostages on these boats. They will put women and children for the ride, maybe even the promise of dropping off on American soil.

They already traffic humans and drugs together on many different routes. No reason they can't do the same with these boats.

The question I have is why don't they just follow the boat and intercept at the destination? Don't you then take out even more of the trafficking participants?

Don't mistake agreeing it is legal and IF we are going to do it make sure we have overwhelming force to protect our troops with signing off on it.

He can do it. I have yet to see any documents or hear any Court say otherwise. He took the appropriate steps with the Executive Order. From a US policy and Executive Power perspective, I am good. From a moral and practical? No way. This will create more trouble than it is worth, as you point out.

I have less problems with following them, sending in a Tier 1 JSOC team with Ranger and Air Force support and taking out the whole network. Those guys are trained for this and have the capabilities. This current random action creates news bites and pyrotechnics but does little to end the drug supply.
KaiBear
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ATL Bear said:

FLBear5630 said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

You are going to see them put hostages on these boats. They will put women and children for the ride, maybe even the promise of dropping off on American soil.
They already traffic humans and drugs together on many different routes. No reason they can't do the same with these boats.

The question I have is why don't they just follow the boat and intercept at the destination? Don't you then take out even more of the trafficking participants?


Probably because we have been doing something like this for decades and the drug cartels were not intimidated by our court system. There was little fear of spending time in US prisons.

However getting blown to bits sends a message the cartels can understand…..clearly.

Just like when Singapore finally executed ANYONE attempting to smuggle drugs into their country ….did their drug problem get dramatically reduced.

Of course those who like the 'freedom' of drug use were outraged with the process.
FLBear5630
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KaiBear said:

ATL Bear said:

FLBear5630 said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Realitybites said:

Assassin said:

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs


...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs




What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

You are going to see them put hostages on these boats. They will put women and children for the ride, maybe even the promise of dropping off on American soil.

They already traffic humans and drugs together on many different routes. No reason they can't do the same with these boats.

The question I have is why don't they just follow the boat and intercept at the destination? Don't you then take out even more of the trafficking participants?


Probably because we have been doing something like this for decades and the drug cartels were not intimidated by our court system. There was little fear of spending time in US prisons.

However getting blown to bits sends a message the cartels can understand…..clearly.

Just like when Singapore finally executed ANYONE attempting to smuggle drugs into their country ….did their drug problem get dramatically reduced.

Of course those who like the 'freedom' of drug use were outraged with the process.

I think people are talking about the difference between blowing up boats at sea and Singapore catching, trying and executing. Singapore does it as part of their legal process, not Hellfire missle because a boat fits a profile.

You are arguing the use of executions to stop behavior, we are saying "How" you do it matters. Once again, you guys are arguing the "what" and those who are questioning are arguing the "how". Nobody thinks drug traffickers are good. Or, that we can let the current situation go.

There has to be a middle ground between catch and release and Hellfire missle.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.


I agree that it does not sound right that the President can do all this unilaterally. i personally agree with you and ATL Near. But, i have yet to see anything that overrules the Executive Order determining a group to be a terror organization. I even found Sec of State can do it.

Please show where it is not within his power. I do not want the Millers of the world using the US military as hit squads. What starts as a group we agree with should be stopped often slides from there.



Designating a group as a terrorist organization allows things like freezing assets and denying passports. It doesn't in itself authorize military action. That's why Bush needed the 2001 AUMF against Al Qaeda (which had already been designated as a terrorist organization two years earlier).
Mitch Blood Green
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.

Only if the Constitution of Sam is in effect. However it's the Constitution of the USA


These boats are in international waters. Is it ok for France to blow up an American flagged boat in the Atlantic saying they are carrying illegal guns?
Robert Wilson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.

Only if the Constitution of Sam is in effect. However it's the Constitution of the USA


These boats are in international waters. Is it ok for France to blow up an American flagged boat in the Atlantic saying they are carrying illegal guns?


Depends. On a whole lot of things.
Robert Wilson
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ATL Bear said:

Robert Wilson said:

ATL Bear said:

This is just a new point on the escalation continuum that has failed every step along the way. This "war" has only gotten more violent and riskier to the U.S. and its citizens at each point the stakes were raised.

Maybe once we start sending American soldiers home in body bags from the coca leaf jungle wars all because some schmucks need to ingest poison to feel good, we'll start questioning the strategy.


I'm totally down with the general sentiment that the market is going to provide things for which there is a demand. But I think you're also oversimplifying.

You want to suggest some sort of broad legalization and regulation of the drug trade, so that we are keeping the money here and arguably making product safer rather than enriching narco terrorists throughout Mexico and Central America, while tacitly encouraging overdoses on fentanyl? I'm all ears. But we both know that we as a country are nowhere near ready for that.

And given where we are, I'm totally fine letting the narcos know that while they are getting rich helping a certain portion of our population kill itself, they might just get blown the **** up. That seems like a fair occupational hazard.

Maybe that pushes the market in a slightly less unhealthy direction, maybe not, but it's good sport, and I am game to find out. There is probably some net benefit to the criminal element in those countries at least being aware that if they become too brazen we just might blow them up.
I'm not oversimplifying the solution, I'm only simplifying the explanation of the problem to the economics. As to the solutions, maybe we're not being creative. To try and beat the drug cartels at their own game would likely prove difficult, so simplistic "legalization" isn't a real answer. As I said earlier, you have to defeat the need for them.

I think one thing we could do from a legalization perspective is to possibly mimic Portugal in that trafficking is still illegal, but possession of all types of drugs up to a certain amount from weed to heroin is not a crime. And they attack it from a public health perspective.

The more radical ideas might revolve around allowing schedule II type substances such as oxycodone related drugs to other types that are prescription available commercially but are similarly heavily sought after in the black market (fentanyl happens to be one of them) to be sold at dispensaries. Another radical idea is to engage pharmaceutical companies in creating, for lack of a better parallel, a series of drugs intended to provide the need for a high like methadone but safer than illicit provided drugs with varying effects. Subsidize it so it's cheap and readily available, and maybe put some strings around it after extended use like a required monthly treatment meeting. Again, I'm not trying to answer the moral or ethical concerns of drug distribution and use, I'm thinking in terms of shifting the market so we reduce/remove the distribution dangers, which gives better opportunity to control/change the demand aspect.


Lots of interesting things to discuss there, but all of that notwithstanding I don't have a real problem with blowing up cartel guys who are getting rich off of helping our population kill itself.
tombeaux
How long do you want to ignore this user?
No. It's all optics to make a blubbery, demented President and his unqualified Secretary of Defense look tough. It will have zero impact on drugs entering the United States.
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.

Only if the Constitution of Sam is in effect. However it's the Constitution of the USA


These boats are in international waters. Is it ok for France to blow up an American flagged boat in the Atlantic saying they are carrying illegal guns?

How many times have American ships carried illegal guns? And does France actually have any naval ships anymore? Arent they all Muslim flagged?
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Assassin said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Porteroso said:

KaiBear said:

This kind of tripe spins your little wheel.

The reality that tens of thousands of Americans die from the illicit use of this drug doesn't matter to you at all.

Probably best for all concerned you have moved to southeast Asia.

Is bombing boats we suspect have drugs on them really the best way to save lives? Kill a few to save many?

Did you oppose or support the U.S. entry into World War II?

Was the Nazi takeover of the world comparable to some druggies in ski boats?

You posted: "Kill a few to save many?"

Do you believe that or not? Is killing a few worth saving many? Yes or no?

You posted it - answer you own question or be smarter.


Morally, the question is easy. We have a system setup to answer the moral question. If these ski boats near Venezuela are a real threat, we can declare war on them. Congress can do that. And then endless bombing ski boats.

If they approach our coast with drugs, we can interdict the boats, and yes sink them if they are unresponsive.

But to go to Venezuela and start bombing, is difficult to make a moral argument for.

We need to secure our border, not go around the world killing people that might one day try to sneak some pills into our country. Tere is n moral or legal justification. Especially when we will make mistakes and kill innocents.


So we should not kill a few to save many. That is your position?

We should have rules about who to kill, so that any fool who comes along can't just claim they are saving the world by killing a few. What do you think about that?

we do have rules about who to kill. POTUS has invoked them. Designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations opens up a range of policy options.

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.

Only if the Constitution of Sam is in effect. However it's the Constitution of the USA


These boats are in international waters. Is it ok for France to blow up an American flagged boat in the Atlantic saying they are carrying illegal guns?

How many times have American ships carried illegal guns? And does France actually have any naval ships anymore? Arent they all Muslim flagged?

Depends on who you ask. You guys seem to be leaning toward might makes right. We are have a peer enemy in China that outguns us in a crucial area of the world. We condemn their island making and say freedom of navigation there and blow up boats we profile here.

Whiterock is correct, we would prevail over China, but they would inflict a heavy cost. We can't be the champions of justice and international law one day and just blow up who we want on the next. That is how we went from being loved worldwide after WW2 to not very popular in most of the world. Popularity matters in trade and alliances. But you guys keep saying "they have no choice". Do we really want it to be down to that?
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.

Only if the Constitution of Sam is in effect. However it's the Constitution of the USA


These boats are in international waters. Is it ok for France to blow up an American flagged boat in the Atlantic saying they are carrying illegal guns?

How many times have American ships carried illegal guns? And does France actually have any naval ships anymore? Arent they all Muslim flagged?

Depends on who you ask. You guys seem to be leaning toward might makes right. We are have a peer enemy in China that outguns us in a crucial area of the world. We condemn their island making and say freedom of navigation there and blow up boats we profile here.

Whiterock is correct, we would prevail over China, but they would inflict a heavy cost. We can't be the champions of justice and international law one day and just blow up who we want on the next. That is how we went from being loved worldwide after WW2 to not very popular in most of the world. Popularity matters in trade and alliances. But you guys keep saying "they have no choice". Do we really want it to be down to that?

Not to blow up these drug running boats is to continue to fund the drug cartels, condemn thousands of addicts to continued addiction, and send many to their graves. Is that something that you want on your conscience?

We finally have a true War on Drugs. This is making an impact.
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Robert Wilson said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

That is the question, can the President unilaterally declare someone a terrorist? What is the check and balance on that? I know this sounds bad, but I believe it is a reality and happens covertly. For some reason that doesn't bother me. This open announcement, broad daylight execution raises questions.

The open President pointing a finger and saying "As of today you are a terrorist, watch for drones" puts a different spin on it. It is more transparent, but is that what we want?

Yes. He has clear statutory authority to do designate countries and organizations as terror entities. Kinetic options flow from there.

Yeah, Executive Order 14157. I guess we can blow up boats at sea.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/29/2025-02004/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially

Well, he is getting real serious now, they have ordered the Ford to the Caribbean.

Ok, then. If we are going to do it and he is allowed, do it right...


Not sure why anyone would have a problem with blowing these guys sky high


it is not the blowing up of scum. it is the process and controls on the Executive Branch...But as far as i can tell, Trunp is within his rights

No he isn't.

Only if the Constitution of Sam is in effect. However it's the Constitution of the USA


These boats are in international waters. Is it ok for France to blow up an American flagged boat in the Atlantic saying they are carrying illegal guns?

How many times have American ships carried illegal guns? And does France actually have any naval ships anymore? Arent they all Muslim flagged?

Depends on who you ask. You guys seem to be leaning toward might makes right. We are have a peer enemy in China that outguns us in a crucial area of the world. We condemn their island making and say freedom of navigation there and blow up boats we profile here.

Whiterock is correct, we would prevail over China, but they would inflict a heavy cost. We can't be the champions of justice and international law one day and just blow up who we want on the next. That is how we went from being loved worldwide after WW2 to not very popular in most of the world. Popularity matters in trade and alliances. But you guys keep saying "they have no choice". Do we really want it to be down to that?

Not to blow up these drug running boats is to continue to fund the drug cartels, condemn thousands of addicts to continued addiction, and send many to their graves. Is that something that you want on your conscience?

We finally have a true War on Drugs. This is making an impact.

You keep talking about stuff everyone agrees with you on like they are some unique viewpoint. Geez, we never thought that stopping the flow of drugs would be good. Come on. You know what we are talking about. Rules of Engagement matter. If we are going to war, Congress declares it. An Executive Order by POTUS may meet the technical conditions for now, but you are opening a door to a whole level of US government power at the whim of one man. As we have seen with both Biden and Trump, mental condition plays into these decisions.

Now it is drug cartels. Next? Strip clubs? The pornography epidemic is destroying lives. Do we blow up strip clubs? Who knows maybe someone POTUS knew lost everything to gambling, porn, alcohol 10th Mountain has nothing to do...


How we do it matters.
 
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