Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Ethnic Jews are still God's chosen people, and Israel was blessed by God. Those covenants will always remain.

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What is an "ethnic Jew"...A Semite who practices Judaism? Is an African who practices Judaism in Ethopia an "ethnic Jew"?

Semites are a race. Judaism is a religion. You need to be more specific. The search for truth is aided by precision in language.

Mothra's position on this is clear. In contradiction to Galatians 5:2 and Hebrews 8:13, he believes that the Mosaic covenant still has some sort of efficacy for those who reject Christ and continue to practice it. He refuses to understand that post resurrection, those who cleave to the Mosaic covenant are deliberately excluding themselves from the Abrahamic one.

Mine is as well. Anyone on earth, Semite or not, has equal access to God through Christ. Those who reject Christ are lost, regardless of whatever other labels or history they claim.

---

Again, I don't claim to know every kind of modern day Jew the covenant applies to. And I understand there have long been debates on how to characterize Jews. We all know Hitler called Jews an inferior race.

I do not consider Jews a race. I consider Jews an ethnicity: Descendants of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Israel, Judah, etc. It's bloodline, but in many cases, also religion, culture, language, etc. Of course, over time, much changed as Jews (and many others) spread out.

---

You're all over the place. Initially you said that the ancient Jews and the modern Jews are the same. Ok, lets grant that for now (set aside for now the fact that the religion of Moses and David can't actually be correctly practiced after 70 AD). Now you say that you don't know what kind of "modern" Jew the covenant applies to. I don't really care how Hitler chose to define a Jew. I'm interested in how *you* do.

So back to the question what is an Ethnic Jew? Don't you think that it's pretty important to be able to nail that down if you're going to call them the chosen people of God?

And as importantly, does an African in Ethopia who practices Judaism in 2025 qualify as one of these Ethnic Jews?

The problem is that neither you nor Mothra are approaching this from a thorough knowledge of the Bible, history, and archeology. He's approaching it with a geopolitical axe to grind, and you're approaching it to selectively accept and reject things based on the pre-millenial, pre-tribulational, dispensational theological point of view.

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Those questions are not important to me. I'm a Christian, and my support for Israel has little or nothing to do with them being God's chosen people.

All that said, I disagree with your premise. The vast majority of Jews are descendants of Old Testament Jews.

And I believe the New Testament is clear that the Old Testament covenants remain in place. The only question to me is exactly what that means. I do not know the answer to that, except, again, I do not believe Jews are saved without accepting Christ in the New Testament way.

Realitybites said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Our Lord practiced Judaism, or did you not know that?

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The Lord fulfilled Judaism. It is theologically incorrect to reduce his role to a practitioner of Judaism. "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:18). There is no other practitioner of Judaism who could say anything like this, including the prophets. This is why the Christian church preserved the Septuagint and uses it in its worship to this day.

Quote:

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And the leading Jews rejected Christ because of Satan's influence, but not all. Indeed we know from the Gospels that many people wanted to hear Christ, and no one here knows the ultimate outcome of their decisions.

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In the week before the crucifixion, Christ entered Jerusalem and was met by cheering crowds and palm branches. On Friday he was crucified "And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children." (Matthew 27:25). What changed?

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I would simply observe that Christianity was originally founded completely of Jews who accepted Jesus as the Christ.

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Historically correct, and the work of the savior opened the covenant of Abraham to any member of homo sapiens who would become his disciple.

Quote:

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Insulting Jews is therefore a dangerous and ill-considered practice, as is presuming you personally understand everyone's heart as well as the Father.

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Nobody is "insulting Jews". We're still trying to define what you, sombear, and Mothra believe one is Jew.

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There are passages in Scripture where your tactics were used. Guy by the name of Caiaphas, maybe you knew him?

sombear said:

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q
Those questions are not important to me. I'm a Christian, and my support for Israel has little or nothing to do with them being God's chosen people.

---

How can those questions not be important? I mean, if you're going to declare a group of people to be God's chosen people, isn't it important to have a full and clear understanding of what you are saying and about whom you are saying it?

Now you're saying Israel is God's chosen people. Every Israeli citizen are God's chosen people?

Quote:

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I do not know the answer to that, except, again, I do not believe Jews are saved without accepting Christ in the New Testament way.

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Well, at least there's that, which is good. But with this understanding, what is preventing you from declaring that Christians are God's Chosen People in accordance with John 14:6? "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." And Matthew 3:9 "And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham." He has done exactly that, and when a Semite leaves the religion of Judaism and accepts Christ as his savior, he leaves the expired Covenant of Moses and is restored to the Covenant of Abraham just as a non-Semite is.

Good answers, Sombear.

I agree that the only path to the Father is through the Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. That said, I shudder at the arrogance of some who imagine they have the authority to put obstacles in the way of people who have not yet accepted Jesus.

It is more than clear to me that the Jewish people are very dear to the Father, which if you know History also means they have received a terrible amount of persecution and attacks, some by the very people who were taught by Christ to forgive their enemies. The Jews are unique in human history and Scripture makes plain that to hate the Jews is to hate the Father.

It's a strange thing, to consider someone rejecting the Savior they spent their whole lives looking for, but I differ from our Roman Catholic friend in that I believe God does not just throw a person out like trash - He is persistent and patient well beyond human limits, and will seek out a lost sheep everyone else thinks is lost beyond hope.

It really needs another thread, but I think it would be interesting to consider false faiths and how God may yet use them to bring His children home. That is, I have known non-Christians who act in essentially Christian ways out of personal choice; it seems to me that there are many who would come to Christ if there weren't so many Christians who shove them away with their own arrogance and spite.

Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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q
Those questions are not important to me. I'm a Christian, and my support for Israel has little or nothing to do with them being God's chosen people.

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How can those questions not be important? I mean, if you're going to declare a group of people to be God's chosen people, isn't it important to have a full and clear understanding of what you are saying and about whom you are saying it?

Now you're saying Israel is God's chosen people. Every Israeli citizen are God's chosen people?

Quote:

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I do not know the answer to that, except, again, I do not believe Jews are saved without accepting Christ in the New Testament way.

---

Well, at least there's that, which is good. But with this understanding, what is preventing you from declaring that Christians are God's Chosen People in accordance with John 14:6? "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." And Matthew 3:9 "And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham." He has done exactly that.

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You're conflating terms and concepts. There is a difference between the elect and God's chosen people. Christians are the Elect saved by grace. That includes all people, Jew, or Gentile, who are redeemed by Christ.

Chosen is a very different term. God's chosen people remain the descendants of Abraham. All scripture is clear on that point.

And scripture is clear He still has a plan for them. See Romans 11.

The_barBEARian said:

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Glad my Boomer Senator is working hard to advance his Israel First agenda:

📣 My bill to aid in the recovery of Nazi-looted art & deliver justice for Holocaust survivors & their families just unanimously passed out of @SenJudiciaryGOP committee.
 
With antisemitism on the rise around the world, this bill sends a message to Holocaust survivors & their… https://t.co/VOyGP2aTE4

— Senator John Cornyn (@JohnCornyn) November 6, 2025

The government will shutdown for tax paying Americans, troops, and air traffic controllers... but no government shutdown is going to stop Washington politicians from sending tribute to Israel

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Oh wait - you are NOW an ANTI-SEMITE for daring to question the American policy on Israel. How dare you?!!!

Oldbear83 said:

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Good answers, Sombear.

I agree that the only path to the Father is through the Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. That said, I shudder at the arrogance of some who imagine they have the authority to put obstacles in the way of people who have not yet accepted Jesus.

It is more than clear to me that the Jewish people are very dear to the Father, which if you know History also means they have received a terrible amount of persecution and attacks, some by the very people who were taught by Christ to forgive their enemies. The Jews are unique in human history and Scripture makes plain that to hate the Jews is to hate the Father.

It's a strange thing, to consider someone rejecting the Savior they spent their whole lives looking for, but I differ from our Roman Catholic friend in that I believe God does not just throw a person out like trash - He is persistent and patient well beyond human limits, and will seek out a lost sheep everyone else thinks is lost beyond hope.

It really needs another thread, but I think it would be interesting to consider false faiths and how God may yet use them to bring His children home. That is, I have known non-Christians who act in essentially Christian ways out of personal choice; it seems to me that there are many who would come to Christ if there weren't so many Christians who shove them away with their own arrogance and spite.

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Agree with all of this.

And, as Mothra posted recently, I truly would be careful before opposing Jews/Israel.

Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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q
Those questions are not important to me. I'm a Christian, and my support for Israel has little or nothing to do with them being God's chosen people.

---

How can those questions not be important? I mean, if you're going to declare a group of people to be God's chosen people, isn't it important to have a full and clear understanding of what you are saying and about whom you are saying it?

Now you're saying Israel is God's chosen people. Every Israeli citizen are God's chosen people?

Quote:

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I do not know the answer to that, except, again, I do not believe Jews are saved without accepting Christ in the New Testament way.

---

Well, at least there's that, which is good. But with this understanding, what is preventing you from declaring that Christians are God's Chosen People in accordance with John 14:6? "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." And Matthew 3:9 "And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham." He has done exactly that, and when a Semite leaves the religion of Judaism and accepts Christ as his savior, he leaves the expired Covenant of Moses and is restored to the Covenant of Abraham just as a non-Semite is.

---

Here are the things in the Bible that truly are important to me:

- Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins before coming back from the dead
- The Holy Spirit
- Power of prayer
- Sin and the devil are real
- Love your neighbor as yourself
- Set a good example and spread the Word
- Be part a church community
- Help those who need it
- Heaven (whatever and wherever it is) is a special place
- Hell (whatever and wherever it is) is not good and is separation from God
- Marriage is a sacred covenant

Beyond that, I really don't care too much.

Again, the vast majority of Jews and Israelis are descendants and are God's chosen people. The small minority of converts and others, I have no idea, and it's not important to me.

I agree with you position on salvation. But Jews being God's chosen people as the Bible describes is not synonymous with Christian salvation. I don't know exactly what it means. But Jews are a very important part of the Bible and God's plan, and they hold a special place in God's heart.

I would not want to oppose them. That's just me.

Nick Fuentes calls out conservatives for telling young men to have kids and not go to college

"They say 'go be a plumber'—in a word, they're telling you to fuck off." pic.twitter.com/hUSWylNvpg

— 𝐆𝐫𝐢𝐦𝐚𝐥𝐝𝐮𝐬 (@ImperiumFirst) November 19, 2025

So you put your self-portrait there why, again?

Nick Fuentes GOES OFF on Speaker Mike Johnson for saying the Epstein Files would destroy the political system

"THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE TRUMP MOVEMENT" 🔥 pic.twitter.com/YGkbb32fme

— 𝐆𝐫𝐢𝐦𝐚𝐥𝐝𝐮𝐬 (@ImperiumFirst) November 19, 2025

Oldbear83 said:

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So you put your self-portrait there why, again?

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Here's yours:

The_barBEARian said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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So you put your self-portrait there why, again?

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Here's yours:

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nah, I'm not that pretty and don't wear suits much anymore.

Oldbear83 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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So you put your self-portrait there why, again?

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Here's yours:

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nah, I'm not that pretty and don't wear suits much anymore.

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At least you can laugh at yourself... that's an admirable quality.

The neo-con & corporatist Nikki Haley has a groyper son

Probably a lesson here…

The UnHerd-to-Tucker story-idea pipeline! https://t.co/h1waC9jtgr pic.twitter.com/OTeGh2iHaU

— Sohrab Ahmari (@SohrabAhmari) November 20, 2025

muddybrazos said:

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Bruisers Burner Phone said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Mothra said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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I was referencing the argument that the Jews being God's chosen people are not the Jews of today.

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To be precise, are you saying that Semites are still Gods chosen people, or practicioners of Judaism are still God's chosen people? Or both? Or Neither?

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We've been over this. Paul is crystal clear in Romans that unbelieving Jewish descendants of Abraham retain their elect status as a nation before God (See Rom.9:3-5; 11:28-29) ("Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."). Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells us that unbelieving Jews - those who were his most serious opposition, who are enemies concerning the gospel are nevertheless still 'elect' (chosen by God) and are to be beloved by Scripturally-informed Christians for the sake of the fathers, the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob which form the root of the olive tree and by which Gentile wild olive branches find our salvation. Why? Because as Paul explains, the gifts and calling (of Israel) by God are irrevocable. Even in unbelief, Paul appears to be saying the Jewish people remain elect - chosen and called by God for His purposes in history. Notice too that this refers to national election, which differs from individual election (Rom.11:7) which is the sole means by which any person, regardless of ethnicity is saved.

Now, is he referring here to the Israeli govt? Likely not, and instead only to the Jewish descendants of Abraham. However, undoubtedly many of the Jews in present day Israel are indeed the modern day descendants of Abraham. And even if they are not, there is enough gray here that we should tread lightly.


The fact that actually believe this nonsense explains your slavish devotion and worship of Jews.... you are a literal mad man.

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Don't see anyone worshipping Jews, but I do see someone obsessed with disliking them

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This came up on my feed today... add this to the long list of disreputable, morally bankrupt Jewish scams being perpetuated on well meaning people of modest means just trying to help others in their communities.

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Well, if its on Youtube, it must be true, right?

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It is true. I saw that video earlier while on my lunch break and its from Mark Dice who's a conservative MAGA youtuber. It seems that Ben was advertising for the Cars for Kids to help those less fortunate but it turns out all the money just paid for camps for Orthodox Jewish kids rather than needs kids of all kinds. Seems like a lie by omission at best and if that is what is so near and dear to Bens heart then why doesnt he personally give money to that cause?

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No surprise you like Mark Dice, given he regularly espouses anti-Jewish beliefs. This is the same YouTuber who said he appreciates Islam's "respect" for Christ, contrasting it with the Judaism. Never mind that you'd be killed or subjected to prison time for espousing belief in Christ in many Muslim parts of the world. I mean, when you praise a religion that is the number one spreader of extremism and terrorism in the world today, you're a little off your rocker.

The guy reminds me of MTG. Promotes crazy conspiracies, and while he's often times bombastic. his arguments are elementary and often times easily refuted. He lacks the intellect and education, and is merely a tribalist. I would take anything this nut says with a huge grain of salt.

The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Realitybites said:

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Quote:

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How does abandoning the best ally we have

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When you start from the wrong premise, you reach the wrong conclusions.

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My point exactly. None of the Israel critics have even attempted to explain how we would be better off without Israel as an ally.

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https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/israel-lobby-and-us-foreign-policy

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LOL

in this post we see a garden-variety crackpot citing a well-known crackpot to buttress garden variety crackpottery.

If I lobby Congress not to infringe on the 2nd Amendment, does that make me a German agent (since HK is a German company)? Does that make me an Austrian agent (since Glock is an Austrian company)? Does that make me an Italian agent (since Beretta is an Italian company)? I have a Sako Safari grade 375 H&H. Does that make me a Finnish agent? I have an Army/Navy 28ga boxlock. Does that make me a British agent?

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A post full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The realist argument is well explained, supported by facts, and there for you to engage with if you choose.

To your question, Mearsheimer's only allusion to FARA is to call AIPAC a "de facto" foreign agent. So technically the answer is probably no.

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LOL Mearsheimer has been wrong about almost everything on Russia, thereby doing harm to foreign policy realist arguments.

I along with a majority of Americans believe the US/Israeli relationship is of significant benefit to the USA. Reasonable people can disagree on that, but the "disagree" camp is unable to make a compelling argument and is therefore reduced to ad hominem arguments - calling anyone who supports Israel and Israeli agent.

Tell us how we would be better off if Israel went away.

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A majority of American Boomers support Israel.... a demographic that is going to fall off a cliff in a decade.

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and this country will continue to support Israel, because it is in our interests to do so.

You've never once explained how the USA would be better off if Israel did not exist.

sombear said:

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Here are the things in the Bible that truly are important to me:

- Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins before coming back from the dead
- The Holy Spirit
- Power of prayer
- Sin and the devil are real
- Love your neighbor as yourself
- Set a good example and spread the Word
- Be part a church community
- Help those who need it
- Heaven (whatever and wherever it is) is a special place
- Hell (whatever and wherever it is) is not good and is separation from God
- Marriage is a sacred covenant

Beyond that, I really don't care too much.

---

Those are all very good things. But it doesn't seem to end there.

Quote:

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But Jews being God's chosen people as the Bible describes is not synonymous with Christian salvation. I don't know exactly what it means. But Jews are a very important part of the Bible and God's plan, and they hold a special place in God's heart.

I would not want to oppose them. That's just me.

---

Nobody is talking about "opposing" or "hating" them. Lets just come to an accurate understanding of the state of play in 2025. Let's start by taking a look at the original Mosaic Covenant that God offered to the nation of Israel at the time He founded Judaism.

"'Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites." (Exodus 19:5-6)

This is the covenant as spoken by God himself. As you can see, the Mosaic covenant that practioners of Judaism are part of is a *conditional* covenant. There is no debate about that.

There is also no debate that almost immediately they began to drop the ball on their portion of that covenant. Judges 2:17, 2nd Kings 17:7-41, Daniel 9:11, and a theme repeated by the major and minor prophets.

This pattern culminated in the rejection of the Messiah, the destruction of the temple making the technical practice of Judaism impossible, and the cancellation of the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13).

So can we get to a place of agreement that in 2025 AD, a practioner of Judaism (attempting to place themselves under the Mosaic Covenant) exclude themselves from being part of "God's Chosen People" as Paul states in Galatians 5:2?

Mothra said:

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muddybrazos said:

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Bruisers Burner Phone said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

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Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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I was referencing the argument that the Jews being God's chosen people are not the Jews of today.

---

---

To be precise, are you saying that Semites are still Gods chosen people, or practicioners of Judaism are still God's chosen people? Or both? Or Neither?

---

We've been over this. Paul is crystal clear in Romans that unbelieving Jewish descendants of Abraham retain their elect status as a nation before God (See Rom.9:3-5; 11:28-29) ("Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."). Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells us that unbelieving Jews - those who were his most serious opposition, who are enemies concerning the gospel are nevertheless still 'elect' (chosen by God) and are to be beloved by Scripturally-informed Christians for the sake of the fathers, the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob which form the root of the olive tree and by which Gentile wild olive branches find our salvation. Why? Because as Paul explains, the gifts and calling (of Israel) by God are irrevocable. Even in unbelief, Paul appears to be saying the Jewish people remain elect - chosen and called by God for His purposes in history. Notice too that this refers to national election, which differs from individual election (Rom.11:7) which is the sole means by which any person, regardless of ethnicity is saved.

Now, is he referring here to the Israeli govt? Likely not, and instead only to the Jewish descendants of Abraham. However, undoubtedly many of the Jews in present day Israel are indeed the modern day descendants of Abraham. And even if they are not, there is enough gray here that we should tread lightly.


The fact that actually believe this nonsense explains your slavish devotion and worship of Jews.... you are a literal mad man.

---

---

Don't see anyone worshipping Jews, but I do see someone obsessed with disliking them

---

This came up on my feed today... add this to the long list of disreputable, morally bankrupt Jewish scams being perpetuated on well meaning people of modest means just trying to help others in their communities.

---

Well, if its on Youtube, it must be true, right?

---

It is true. I saw that video earlier while on my lunch break and its from Mark Dice who's a conservative MAGA youtuber. It seems that Ben was advertising for the Cars for Kids to help those less fortunate but it turns out all the money just paid for camps for Orthodox Jewish kids rather than needs kids of all kinds. Seems like a lie by omission at best and if that is what is so near and dear to Bens heart then why doesnt he personally give money to that cause?

---

No surprise you like Mark Dice, given he regularly espouses anti-Jewish beliefs. This is the same YouTuber who said he appreciates Islam's "respect" for Christ, contrasting it with the Judaism. Never mind that you'd be killed or subjected to prison time for espousing belief in Christ in many Muslim parts of the world. I mean, when you praise a religion that is the number one spreader of extremism and terrorism in the world today, you're a little off your rocker.

The guy reminds me of MTG. Promotes crazy conspiracies, and while he's often times bombastic. his arguments are elementary and often times easily refuted. He lacks the intellect and education, and is merely a tribalist. I would take anything this nut says with a huge grain of salt.

---

I wonder what party you will have to join now since the neocon wars for Israel repub party is dying very quickly. Let us know where you end up.

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

---

Here are the things in the Bible that truly are important to me:

- Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins before coming back from the dead
- The Holy Spirit
- Power of prayer
- Sin and the devil are real
- Love your neighbor as yourself
- Set a good example and spread the Word
- Be part a church community
- Help those who need it
- Heaven (whatever and wherever it is) is a special place
- Hell (whatever and wherever it is) is not good and is separation from God
- Marriage is a sacred covenant

Beyond that, I really don't care too much.

---

Those are all very good things. But it doesn't seem to end there.

Quote:

---

But Jews being God's chosen people as the Bible describes is not synonymous with Christian salvation. I don't know exactly what it means. But Jews are a very important part of the Bible and God's plan, and they hold a special place in God's heart.

I would not want to oppose them. That's just me.

---

Nobody is talking about "opposing" or "hating" them. Lets just come to an accurate understanding of the state of play in 2025. Let's start by taking a look at the original Mosaic Covenant that God offered to the nation of Israel at the time He founded Judaism.

"'Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites." (Exodus 19:5-6)

This is the covenant as spoken by God himself. As you can see, the Mosaic covenant that practioners of Judaism are part of is a *conditional* covenant. There is no debate about that.

There is also no debate that almost immediately they began to drop the ball on their portion of that covenant. Judges 2:17, 2nd Kings 17:7-41, Daniel 9:11, and a theme repeated by the major and minor prophets.

This pattern culminated in the rejection of the Messiah, the destruction of the temple making the technical practice of Judaism impossible, and the cancellation of the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13).

So can we get to a place of agreement that in 2025 AD, a practioner of Judaism (attempting to place themselves under the Mosaic Covenant) exclude themselves from being part of "God's Chosen People" as Paul states in Galatians 5:2?

---

We know how badly you wish that was what Paul was saying in Galatians. But of course not only is that not what the plain language of the text says, it also disagrees with Paul's statements in Romans 11.

An inconvenient fact.

muddybrazos said:

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Mothra said:

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muddybrazos said:

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Bruisers Burner Phone said:

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The_barBEARian said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

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Realitybites said:

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I was referencing the argument that the Jews being God's chosen people are not the Jews of today.

---

---

To be precise, are you saying that Semites are still Gods chosen people, or practicioners of Judaism are still God's chosen people? Or both? Or Neither?

---

We've been over this. Paul is crystal clear in Romans that unbelieving Jewish descendants of Abraham retain their elect status as a nation before God (See Rom.9:3-5; 11:28-29) ("Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."). Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells us that unbelieving Jews - those who were his most serious opposition, who are enemies concerning the gospel are nevertheless still 'elect' (chosen by God) and are to be beloved by Scripturally-informed Christians for the sake of the fathers, the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob which form the root of the olive tree and by which Gentile wild olive branches find our salvation. Why? Because as Paul explains, the gifts and calling (of Israel) by God are irrevocable. Even in unbelief, Paul appears to be saying the Jewish people remain elect - chosen and called by God for His purposes in history. Notice too that this refers to national election, which differs from individual election (Rom.11:7) which is the sole means by which any person, regardless of ethnicity is saved.

Now, is he referring here to the Israeli govt? Likely not, and instead only to the Jewish descendants of Abraham. However, undoubtedly many of the Jews in present day Israel are indeed the modern day descendants of Abraham. And even if they are not, there is enough gray here that we should tread lightly.


The fact that actually believe this nonsense explains your slavish devotion and worship of Jews.... you are a literal mad man.

---

---

Don't see anyone worshipping Jews, but I do see someone obsessed with disliking them

---

This came up on my feed today... add this to the long list of disreputable, morally bankrupt Jewish scams being perpetuated on well meaning people of modest means just trying to help others in their communities.

---

Well, if its on Youtube, it must be true, right?

---

It is true. I saw that video earlier while on my lunch break and its from Mark Dice who's a conservative MAGA youtuber. It seems that Ben was advertising for the Cars for Kids to help those less fortunate but it turns out all the money just paid for camps for Orthodox Jewish kids rather than needs kids of all kinds. Seems like a lie by omission at best and if that is what is so near and dear to Bens heart then why doesnt he personally give money to that cause?

---

No surprise you like Mark Dice, given he regularly espouses anti-Jewish beliefs. This is the same YouTuber who said he appreciates Islam's "respect" for Christ, contrasting it with the Judaism. Never mind that you'd be killed or subjected to prison time for espousing belief in Christ in many Muslim parts of the world. I mean, when you praise a religion that is the number one spreader of extremism and terrorism in the world today, you're a little off your rocker.

The guy reminds me of MTG. Promotes crazy conspiracies, and while he's often times bombastic. his arguments are elementary and often times easily refuted. He lacks the intellect and education, and is merely a tribalist. I would take anything this nut says with a huge grain of salt.

---

I wonder what party you will have to join now since the neocon wars for Israel repub party is dying very quickly. Let us know where you end up.

---

It's true that I've always been an independent thinker. Disagreed with the neocons, and disagreed with Maga, especially on spending. I am not a drone who fawns over self aggrandizing morons such as MTG and Mark dice..

But rest assured, whatever side I end up on, it won't be with the tribal Jew haters like you.

Realitybites said:

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sombear said:

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Here are the things in the Bible that truly are important to me:

- Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins before coming back from the dead
- The Holy Spirit
- Power of prayer
- Sin and the devil are real
- Love your neighbor as yourself
- Set a good example and spread the Word
- Be part a church community
- Help those who need it
- Heaven (whatever and wherever it is) is a special place
- Hell (whatever and wherever it is) is not good and is separation from God
- Marriage is a sacred covenant

Beyond that, I really don't care too much.

---

Those are all very good things. But it doesn't seem to end there.

Quote:

---

But Jews being God's chosen people as the Bible describes is not synonymous with Christian salvation. I don't know exactly what it means. But Jews are a very important part of the Bible and God's plan, and they hold a special place in God's heart.

I would not want to oppose them. That's just me.

---

Nobody is talking about "opposing" or "hating" them. Lets just come to an accurate understanding of the state of play in 2025. Let's start by taking a look at the original Mosaic Covenant that God offered to the nation of Israel at the time He founded Judaism.

"'Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites." (Exodus 19:5-6)

This is the covenant as spoken by God himself. As you can see, the Mosaic covenant that practioners of Judaism are part of is a *conditional* covenant. There is no debate about that.

There is also no debate that almost immediately they began to drop the ball on their portion of that covenant. Judges 2:17, 2nd Kings 17:7-41, Daniel 9:11, and a theme repeated by the major and minor prophets.

This pattern culminated in the rejection of the Messiah, the destruction of the temple making the technical practice of Judaism impossible, and the cancellation of the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13).

So can we get to a place of agreement that in 2025 AD, a practioner of Judaism (attempting to place themselves under the Mosaic Covenant) exclude themselves from being part of "God's Chosen People" as Paul states in Galatians 5:2?

---

I was not referring to you opposing Jews/Israel. I was referring to those countries and individuals directly attacking Israel. I would not want to be them now or ever. Things will not end well for them, just as things have not gone well for them. That said, I also would not want to be anyone who discriminates against Jews. I do not think that includes legitimate policy differences - and, again, that's not a direct or passive-aggressive shot at any posters. Just my true belief.

I don't think any of the citations support your argument in any way. To me, the OT and NT are crystal clear: God made an everlasting promise to Israel/Jews. Yes, like most everyone else, they defied God and continue to reject Jesus. That is all laid out in detail. God predicted as much. It is equally clear, however, that nothing Israel/the Jews have done terminates the original promises or covenant.

I see no other way to interpret Romans or the numerous OT and NT references to an everlasting covenant. Respectfully, I have no idea how you or anyone else interprets Galatians in that way. Galatians itself does not even hint at that in my view. And even if it could somehow morph into your view, it is outweighed by many more direct verses in the OT and NT.

Fuentes is a Hitler apologist & antisemite. Nobody on this thread disputes that

Why is there an "antisemitism Czar"? And why are tax payers paying for this bull*****

Rabbi Yehuda Kaploun, Trump's Israeli-born Chabadnik nominee for US Anti-Semitism Czar, tells Sen. Hollen that criticism of Israel must abide by the IHRA definition.

"You have a right to criticize a country, but if you are only going to criticize Israel—and that's every… pic.twitter.com/VmVtMpSrSe

— Chris Menahan 🇺🇸 (@infolibnews) November 20, 2025

I’m not taking orders from this little goblin. pic.twitter.com/zDgUP6KjAd

— Hernandez (@HernandezWave) November 20, 2025

sombear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

sombear said:

---

Here are the things in the Bible that truly are important to me:

- Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins before coming back from the dead
- The Holy Spirit
- Power of prayer
- Sin and the devil are real
- Love your neighbor as yourself
- Set a good example and spread the Word
- Be part a church community
- Help those who need it
- Heaven (whatever and wherever it is) is a special place
- Hell (whatever and wherever it is) is not good and is separation from God
- Marriage is a sacred covenant

Beyond that, I really don't care too much.

---

Those are all very good things. But it doesn't seem to end there.

Quote:

---

But Jews being God's chosen people as the Bible describes is not synonymous with Christian salvation. I don't know exactly what it means. But Jews are a very important part of the Bible and God's plan, and they hold a special place in God's heart.

I would not want to oppose them. That's just me.

---

Nobody is talking about "opposing" or "hating" them. Lets just come to an accurate understanding of the state of play in 2025. Let's start by taking a look at the original Mosaic Covenant that God offered to the nation of Israel at the time He founded Judaism.

"'Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites." (Exodus 19:5-6)

This is the covenant as spoken by God himself. As you can see, the Mosaic covenant that practioners of Judaism are part of is a *conditional* covenant. There is no debate about that.

There is also no debate that almost immediately they began to drop the ball on their portion of that covenant. Judges 2:17, 2nd Kings 17:7-41, Daniel 9:11, and a theme repeated by the major and minor prophets.

This pattern culminated in the rejection of the Messiah, the destruction of the temple making the technical practice of Judaism impossible, and the cancellation of the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13).

So can we get to a place of agreement that in 2025 AD, a practioner of Judaism (attempting to place themselves under the Mosaic Covenant) exclude themselves from being part of "God's Chosen People" as Paul states in Galatians 5:2?

---

I was not referring to you opposing Jews/Israel. I was referring to those countries and individuals directly attacking Israel. I would not want to be them now or ever. Things will not end well for them, just as things have not gone well for them. That said, I also would not want to be anyone who discriminates against Jews. I do not think that includes legitimate policy differences - and, again, that's not a direct or passive-aggressive shot at any posters. Just my true belief.

I don't think any of the citations support your argument in any way. To me, the OT and NT are crystal clear: God made an everlasting promise to Israel/Jews. Yes, like most everyone else, they defied God and continue to reject Jesus. That is all laid out in detail. God predicted as much. It is equally clear, however, that nothing Israel/the Jews have done terminates the original promises or covenant.

I see no other way to interpret Romans or the numerous OT and NT references to an everlasting covenant. Respectfully, I have no idea how you or anyone else interprets Galatians in that way. Galatians itself does not even hint at that in my view. And even if it could somehow morph into your view, it is outweighed by many more direct verses in the OT and NT.

---

Well said.

The_barBEARian said:

---

Why is there an "antisemitism Czar"? And why are tax payers paying for this bull*****

Rabbi Yehuda Kaploun, Trump's Israeli-born Chabadnik nominee for US Anti-Semitism Czar, tells Sen. Hollen that criticism of Israel must abide by the IHRA definition.

"You have a right to criticize a country, but if you are only going to criticize Israel—and that's every… pic.twitter.com/VmVtMpSrSe

— Chris Menahan 🇺🇸 (@infolibnews) November 20, 2025

I’m not taking orders from this little goblin. pic.twitter.com/zDgUP6KjAd

— Hernandez (@HernandezWave) November 20, 2025

---

Little goblin.

Always turns into a pot shot at how the Jew looks with the Groypers.

The_barBEARian said:

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Case in point.

whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Realitybites said:

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Quote:

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How does abandoning the best ally we have

---

When you start from the wrong premise, you reach the wrong conclusions.

---

My point exactly. None of the Israel critics have even attempted to explain how we would be better off without Israel as an ally.

---

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/israel-lobby-and-us-foreign-policy

---

LOL

in this post we see a garden-variety crackpot citing a well-known crackpot to buttress garden variety crackpottery.

If I lobby Congress not to infringe on the 2nd Amendment, does that make me a German agent (since HK is a German company)? Does that make me an Austrian agent (since Glock is an Austrian company)? Does that make me an Italian agent (since Beretta is an Italian company)? I have a Sako Safari grade 375 H&H. Does that make me a Finnish agent? I have an Army/Navy 28ga boxlock. Does that make me a British agent?

---

A post full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The realist argument is well explained, supported by facts, and there for you to engage with if you choose.

To your question, Mearsheimer's only allusion to FARA is to call AIPAC a "de facto" foreign agent. So technically the answer is probably no.

---

LOL Mearsheimer has been wrong about almost everything on Russia, thereby doing harm to foreign policy realist arguments.

I along with a majority of Americans believe the US/Israeli relationship is of significant benefit to the USA. Reasonable people can disagree on that, but the "disagree" camp is unable to make a compelling argument and is therefore reduced to ad hominem arguments - calling anyone who supports Israel and Israeli agent.

Tell us how we would be better off if Israel went away.

---

A majority of American Boomers support Israel.... a demographic that is going to fall off a cliff in a decade.

---

and this country will continue to support Israel, because it is in our interests to do so.

You've never once explained how the USA would be better off if Israel did not exist.

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pic.twitter.com/nKjdkQAUvq

— eric_c_anderson 1776 American 🇺🇸 (@eric_c_anderson) November 1, 2025

The Perfect Christmas gift for your favorite wanghaf🎅🎄https://t.co/rLPk1SHtfd pic.twitter.com/I2PTM0XhcR

— Red5 (@Red5djedi) November 20, 2025

I'm thinking about sending you something for Christmas....

The_barBEARian said:

---

The Perfect Christmas gift for your favorite wanghaf🎅🎄https://t.co/rLPk1SHtfd pic.twitter.com/I2PTM0XhcR

— Red5 (@Red5djedi) November 20, 2025

I'm thinking about sending you something for Christmas....

---

I strongly suggest repentance.

The_barBEARian said:

---

The Perfect Christmas gift for your favorite wanghaf🎅🎄https://t.co/rLPk1SHtfd pic.twitter.com/I2PTM0XhcR

— Red5 (@Red5djedi) November 20, 2025

I'm thinking about sending you something for Christmas....

---

Well, I appreciate the gesture, but I think you need to save all the money you can. You're nearing 40, and at some point, you're gonna have to move out of Mom and Dad's basement.

Mothra said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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The Perfect Christmas gift for your favorite wanghaf🎅🎄https://t.co/rLPk1SHtfd pic.twitter.com/I2PTM0XhcR

— Red5 (@Red5djedi) November 20, 2025

I'm thinking about sending you something for Christmas....

---

Well, I appreciate the gesture, but I think you need to save all the money you can. You're nearing 40, and at some point, you're gonna have to move out of Mom and Dad's basement.

---

Nah dawg... the ZOG would just steal it all and send it to Israel. Somebody has to pay for all their wars and sure is hell isn't them.

They are talking about doubling the military assistance and extending it out 20 years this time to 2048.

It really is crazy that of all the money my family has poured into this country over the centuries, that Jews over in Israel receive more benefits from my government than I do.... although the bar is pretty low when literally the only thing I ever received was a thousand dollar COVID check that I would have gladly given back to avoid the runaway inflation...

sombear said:

---

I also disagree with the AIPAC argument. AIPAC simply does not meet the definition under FARA. Plus, AIPAC discloses its most significant data - lobbying, political expenditures, etc.

---

Netanyahu meets with AIPAC leadership in Jerusalem. pic.twitter.com/KHm8FUG7Mh

— Open Source Intel (@Osint613) November 20, 2025

Dont believe your lying eyes... there is no global cabal...

Chuck Schumer cries about Tucker Carlson's interview with Nick Fuentes..

So much that he's now pushing for a Resolution disavowing Fuentes. pic.twitter.com/u1DrbFrb1v

— KaizerRev (@Kaizerrev) November 20, 2025