The_barBEARian said:
sombear said:
Realitybites said:
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And I do not agree with your view that the Jews of the Bible are not today's Jews.
What do you mean by that?
And moving foward, are we to settle on "practicioners of Judaism" as the meaning of the term "Jew" since there are non-semitic people who practice it?
Another point to consider is that Judaism - and therefore the term "Jew" - has no meaning before Moses and the giving of the law. Abraham was the father of what we call the Semitic people - all the Semitic people - but he himself was Sumerian or maybe Akkadian. He did not practice the same religion that Moses and David did, because that religion did not exist yet.
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Rather, it's always been about Israel being an ally democracy in the middle of hell, a strategic partner, and mostly on the "right" side.
And that's a point of view that I'm open to having, so long as AIPAC registers as a foreign agent and Israel pays its own way. I'm not inherently against cooperating with Israel when our interests converge. In fact, that should be the basis of *all* our foreign dealings.
I was referencing the argument that the Jews being God's chosen people are not the Jews of today.
I've posted before that Israel now has plenty of $ and I have no problem with those that argue we should stop direct $ support. However, I think many make that argument in bad faith. We give $ to countless countries, including other in the Middle East.
Is the money given to Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebenon, etc not bribes on behalf of Israel at the American tax payer expense.
Yes or No?
Virtually all of the support we provide Israel is military support. And most of the $ Israel uses to buy back US military equipment. So, unlike the aid we send to many countries, we're not just writing general checks to Israel.
This is one of the biggest lies ever told by the Israel Firsters. America sends Israel a cashier's check. Once the money hits their account there is nothing America can do to stop them from spending it however they want. If it was about stimulating defense contractors, America would buy the weapons and equipment directly and give it to them like we've done with Iraq and Afghanistan. There is zero auditing of how the "military aid" is spent and most of the $4 billion annum is probably sent back as kickbacks to paid politicians in Congress.
Not to mention, the total Israel support since its founding is $300 billion. And most of that is in a few spikes during their wars.
Are you familiar with the concept of interest on debt or inflation? Or lost opportunity costs? And you are capable of considering the costs of moving entire battle fleets across the world to protect Israel everytime they start a new war... or the costs of bribing all their enemies not to attack them.
America's relationship with Israel has added trillions to the debt.
I also disagree with the AIPAC argument. AIPAC simply does not meet the definition under FARA. Plus, AIPAC discloses its most significant data - lobbying, political expenditures, etc.
If AIPAC doesnt meet to definition of FARA... then nothing does. This is such an absurd statement I have to ask how much money are you making from the Israel lobby sir?
No. We give $ to those countries for our own purposes. We gladly pay to have allied in the ME and to help combat Muslim terrorism.
I was not suggesting that net net it all evens out. Not even close. I was just stating fact, which is that virtually all the $ is in military support and most of that is used to purchase from US manufacturers.
The $300 billion is inflations adjusted. And your finance theory is flawed. We'd be in severe debt even without any ME aid. It's barely a bleep on the deficit/debt radar. That $ would not just be sitting in some investment account.
You also are wrong about the free reign cashier's check. Most of the aid is under the FMF and FMS. It cannot be used for other purposes.
We also have critical joint weapons development programs and intel sharing with Israel, which counts as aid.
The definition is clear. AIPAC is not led nor funded by Israel. It's just that simple. You might not like that definition, which is fine. And, again, regardless, key info on AIPAC is out there for all to see. Please detail exactly what you would see if AIPAC fell under FARA.
