Tucker's attempt to normalize Nick Fuentes

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Mothra
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Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

I suppose we could try to pretend Tucker is some mere "podcaster" operating out of his basement, doesn't have a nightly audience of 3.25 million, doesn't speak at numerous conservative events all over the country, and doesn't have much sway in the party. But we both know that would be an intellectually dishonest position.

Last I checked, Ben Shapiro (and other Republicans) did exactly what you described - pushed back against the bull**** that Fuentes spouts. The fact they also called out Tucker for giving the dude a platform was also appropriate.


Tucker's actually normal episode audience is more like a million...but still....what exactly are people who don't like it supposed to do? Fox already kicked him off because they found him controversial and no longer liked his views. They can't de-platform him or stop him from saying things they don't like or having people on they don't like.

I would suggest people do exactly what they are doing, exactly what Ben Shapiro did. I have no advocated for anything else, which is why I am not sure what you're arguing against here, or think my position to be.
Redbrickbear
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Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

I suppose we could try to pretend Tucker is some mere "podcaster" operating out of his basement, doesn't have a nightly audience of 3.25 million, doesn't speak at numerous conservative events all over the country, and doesn't have much sway in the party. But we both know that would be an intellectually dishonest position.

Last I checked, Ben Shapiro (and other Republicans) did exactly what you described - pushed back against the bull**** that Fuentes spouts. The fact they also called out Tucker for giving the dude a platform was also appropriate.


Tucker's actually normal episode audience is more like a million...but still....what exactly are people who don't like it supposed to do? Fox already kicked him off because they found him controversial and no longer liked his views. They can't de-platform him or stop him from saying things they don't like or having people on they don't like.

I would suggest people do exactly what they are doing, exactly what Ben Shapiro did. I have no advocated for anything else, which is why I am not sure what you're arguing against here, or think my position to be.


Not exactly....what at least some of them are doing is demanding this issue of podcasters become a major issue inside the party. Sucking up oxygen and energy right in the run up to a major election.

Ben is not the problem....he is speaking out on his show and doing what he should.

But the other internal political factions in the Party and letting themselves become distracted by this.....if you want a party wide debate then have it in the Spring when elections are not the focus point.

This issue is now tearing apart think tanks and conservative advocacy groups as the more pro-Israel side demands everyone and anyone must come out and totally and completely disavow Tucker right now....with no reservations.

So instead of focusing on the elections at hand....that the GOP just got crushed in....they are infighting over two podcasters

Senators and the very leader of the House are having to wade into the fight and deal with the press and the factional headache of dealing with all sides.

[At least eight individuals and organizations affiliated with Heritage's National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism, launched last year under the Project Esther banner, have resigned or threatened to do so, citing Heritage president Kevin Roberts's decision to stand by Carlson and his description of the television personality's critics as a "venomous coalition."

But speaking Monday night at Hillsdale College, an epicenter of contemporary Christian conservatism, Roberts offered new comments that showed he was aware of the hurt felt by Jews close to Heritage. Calling his initial video defending Carlson "a mistake made with the best of intentions," he apologized, "especially to any friends, particularly Jewish friends," and said, "The Heritage Foundation will never, ever, ever stop fighting against antisemitism in all its forms."

The Coalition for Jewish Values, led by Rabbi Yaakov Menken, said it has already communicated its intent to resign if Roberts does not retract his remarks and sever all ties with Carlson. ]
Mothra
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Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

I suppose we could try to pretend Tucker is some mere "podcaster" operating out of his basement, doesn't have a nightly audience of 3.25 million, doesn't speak at numerous conservative events all over the country, and doesn't have much sway in the party. But we both know that would be an intellectually dishonest position.

Last I checked, Ben Shapiro (and other Republicans) did exactly what you described - pushed back against the bull**** that Fuentes spouts. The fact they also called out Tucker for giving the dude a platform was also appropriate.


Tucker's actually normal episode audience is more like a million...but still....what exactly are people who don't like it supposed to do? Fox already kicked him off because they found him controversial and no longer liked his views. They can't de-platform him or stop him from saying things they don't like or having people on they don't like.

I would suggest people do exactly what they are doing, exactly what Ben Shapiro did. I have no advocated for anything else, which is why I am not sure what you're arguing against here, or think my position to be.


Not exactly....what at least some of them are doing is demanding this issue of podcasters become a major issue inside the party. Sucking up oxygen and energy right in the run up to a major election.

Ben is not the problem....he is speaking out on his show and doing what he should.

But the other internal political factions in the Party and letting themselves become distracted by this.....if you want a party wide debate then have it in the Spring when elections are not the focus point.

This issue is now tearing apart think tanks and conservative advocacy groups as the more pro-Israel side demands everyone and anyone must come out and totally and completely disavow Tucker right now....with no reservations.

So instead of focusing on the elections at hand....that the GOP just got crushed in....they are infighting over two podcasters

Senators and the very leader of the House are having to wade into the fight and deal with the press and the factional headache of dealing with all sides.

[At least eight individuals and organizations affiliated with Heritage's National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism, launched last year under the Project Esther banner, have resigned or threatened to do so, citing Heritage president Kevin Roberts's decision to stand by Carlson and his description of the television personality's critics as a "venomous coalition."

But speaking Monday night at Hillsdale College, an epicenter of contemporary Christian conservatism, Roberts offered new comments that showed he was aware of the hurt felt by Jews close to Heritage. Calling his initial video defending Carlson "a mistake made with the best of intentions," he apologized, "especially to any friends, particularly Jewish friends," and said, "The Heritage Foundation will never, ever, ever stop fighting against antisemitism in all its forms."

The Coalition for Jewish Values, led by Rabbi Yaakov Menken, said it has already communicated its intent to resign if Roberts does not retract his remarks and sever all ties with Carlson. ]

My initial questions on this thread were:

I am curious how the Tucker defenders feel about the interview. What say you? Think this is going to win the Republicans more votes?

That's really all I was interested in. I don't think Tucker should be cancelled, although I believe him to be incredibly stupid and tone deaf to interview the guy, lob him softballs, and not ask about his incendiary comments and beliefs. What did he think was going to happen? Did he think all of the Jewish supporters and supporters of his supporters were going to be ok with him playing footsie with a well known Jewish hate monger who denies the Holocaust?
Oldbear83
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He's ranting, not debating.


Just thought that should be noted.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
muddybrazos
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Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

I suppose we could try to pretend Tucker is some mere "podcaster" operating out of his basement, doesn't have a nightly audience of 3.25 million, doesn't speak at numerous conservative events all over the country, and doesn't have much sway in the party. But we both know that would be an intellectually dishonest position.

Last I checked, Ben Shapiro (and other Republicans) did exactly what you described - pushed back against the bull**** that Fuentes spouts. The fact they also called out Tucker for giving the dude a platform was also appropriate.


Tucker's actually normal episode audience is more like a million...but still....what exactly are people who don't like it supposed to do? Fox already kicked him off because they found him controversial and no longer liked his views. They can't de-platform him or stop him from saying things they don't like or having people on they don't like.

I would suggest people do exactly what they are doing, exactly what Ben Shapiro did. I have no advocated for anything else, which is why I am not sure what you're arguing against here, or think my position to be.


Not exactly....what at least some of them are doing is demanding this issue of podcasters become a major issue inside the party. Sucking up oxygen and energy right in the run up to a major election.

Ben is not the problem....he is speaking out on his show and doing what he should.

But the other internal political factions in the Party and letting themselves become distracted by this.....if you want a party wide debate then have it in the Spring when elections are not the focus point.

This issue is now tearing apart think tanks and conservative advocacy groups as the more pro-Israel side demands everyone and anyone must come out and totally and completely disavow Tucker right now....with no reservations.

So instead of focusing on the elections at hand....that the GOP just got crushed in....they are infighting over two podcasters

Senators and the very leader of the House are having to wade into the fight and deal with the press and the factional headache of dealing with all sides.

[At least eight individuals and organizations affiliated with Heritage's National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism, launched last year under the Project Esther banner, have resigned or threatened to do so, citing Heritage president Kevin Roberts's decision to stand by Carlson and his description of the television personality's critics as a "venomous coalition."

But speaking Monday night at Hillsdale College, an epicenter of contemporary Christian conservatism, Roberts offered new comments that showed he was aware of the hurt felt by Jews close to Heritage. Calling his initial video defending Carlson "a mistake made with the best of intentions," he apologized, "especially to any friends, particularly Jewish friends," and said, "The Heritage Foundation will never, ever, ever stop fighting against antisemitism in all its forms."

The Coalition for Jewish Values, led by Rabbi Yaakov Menken, said it has already communicated its intent to resign if Roberts does not retract his remarks and sever all ties with Carlson. ]

My initial questions on this thread were:

I am curious how the Tucker defenders feel about the interview. What say you? Think this is going to win the Republicans more votes?

That's really all I was interested in. I don't think Tucker should be cancelled, although I believe him to be incredibly stupid and tone deaf to interview the guy, lob him softballs, and not ask about his incendiary comments and beliefs. What did he think was going to happen? Did he think all of the Jewish supporters and supporters of his supporters were going to be ok with him playing footsie with a well known Jewish hate monger who denies the Holocaust?

I watched the interview and didnt have a problem with it. Also, I have never seen any clips of Nick denying the holocaust. Maybe you could provide proof of that?
BaylorFTW
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Mothra said:

BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

Mothra said:

Realitybites said:

Mothra said:

Realitybites said:

Tucker is a facilitator, not a gatekeeper.

You'll understand what he does better if you start there.

And then the last of the groypers and Tucker apologists makes an appearance.

Batting 1.000 on this thread.

Tucker only seems to ask the difficult questions of his "fellow" conservatives. If you're a racist or despot, you apparently get a pass.

But he's just a "facilitator" and all...


I am a Tucker apologist. He has done more to turn the political right into a movement and inform people than almost any other media figure. He's certainly done more than clowns like Hannity, Shapiro, Levin, and the two successors to Rush Limbaugh. Yeah he gets a pass.

I oppose this: Foreign Lobby Watch

I oppose Israel using AIPAC to circumvent FARA.

I oppose giving foreign nations aid when we have a debt to GDP ratio of 130%.

And yes, I believe that the Church is the Israel of God and the Mosaic covenant is done (Hebrews 8:13).

Apparently this makes me an anti-Semitic Hitler figure or something.

I am not a groyper. And while I disagree with some - possibly even much - of what Fuentes says, the two of us have this in common...after living our adult lives under the political orthodoxy enforced by the political establishment we are both well past caring what those who represent it care about what we think.

At one time I would have agreed with you on Tucker. And then in the last two years, after reading his bible for the first time, Tucker apparently found some flawed version of the Catholic God, and then began guzzling the conspiracy theory kool-aid like gin at a sorority party. It's what has led to his praise of despots, murderers, and racists - like Putin, the Iranian president, Candace Owens, and now, Fuentes - and then excoriating people like Ted Cruz, a fellow conservative who supports Israel.

I'd suggest there is a happy medium between the Mark Levins of the world, and complete anti-semitic radicalism that blames Jews for most of the world's ills, and believes everything is a conspiracy. The fact you are willing to give such hateful and racist rhetoric a pass says all one needs to know about you on these issues. You may be slightly more polished than the other anti-semites who've made an appearance on this thread, but the fact is you subscribe a flawed replacement theology that contradicts the plain language of scripture, and have also swallowed the kool-aid blaming the Jews for the world's ills.

The kind of hateful rhetoric that Fuentes spouts has no place in the conservative party if we desire to win anymore elections. But maybe like Fuentes, you're just interested in burning it down. You've also yet to learn that your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend.



There is no conservative party any more. It was sold for a penny's worth of "pragmatism."

A happy medium would mean free and honest criticism of Israel, or any country, without prejudice for or against any race or religion. There's practically no tolerance for that, as I can attest.


Criticism of Israel is fine. Racism isn't. Some people on this board like to blur the two.

Let's cut to the chase, Mothra. Has America given too much money to Israel, the nation?


Yes, and we agree Israel has had too much influence over American foreign policy at times. I also agree that Netanyahu is a POS.

One can hold that view and also not say the holocaust wasn't that bad or believe a Jewish cabal runs the world - like some of your groyper buddies on this thread.

Good for you, Mothra. I am afraid one begets the other though. For example, if we gave less money to Israel, there would be less ammunition for conspiracy theorists and the groyper movement would be much smaller because perceptions of America's future would be much better for young people. It also doesn't help if Nick's claim is true that Shapiro called an 18 year old Fuentes an antisemite for raising questions about why we were giving all this money to Israel. Maybe if Shapiro had handled that situation with a lot more grace and humility, we would be in a different place. But my guess is Shapiro ad hom attacked Fuentes because he didn't feel he could defend the spending with facts.



Have you ever listened to Nick's comments about Jews? He IS an anti-semite. I mean, that word gets thrown around a lot I know, but there's no other way to describe him. Neo-nazi is probably the most accurate term.

When a guy denies the Holocaust, and blames Jews for all of the world's ills, the label is accurate.

Asking a Jewish person to be more sympathetic or understanding of a very hateful and racist dude that literally hates that individual because of his race is asking a whole hell of a lot. If I were a Jew, I'd be saying a lot stronger things to that POS.

Not at 18 he wasn't. At that point, Fuentes was a campaigner for Ted Cruz. And Shapiro was an accomplished political commentator at that time who had heard it all. Yet, he went out of his way to attack an 18 year old on social media showing no maturity or self control. Shapiro was the adult in the room but didn't behave like it.

And I am still not sure how much of the current Fuentes we see is an act. He is obviously a provocateur so it is hard to know given a lot of his appeal is based off him being a troll saying the things current polite society says you cannot not say. He says some things that I would say are in conflict with his own beliefs as a practicing Catholic like saying he is a fan of Stalin. Catholics and other Christians were treated terribly under Stalin so I am not sure he could defend that position if challenged with those realities. But I think from his perspective he just knows it gets a rise out of people and that is the point.

Agree he is a troll, which is why what he says is so destructive. He is not the sympathetic figure you seem to make him.

He is a sympathetic figure to young people. When you attack him, you are attacking young people by default. He is popular with them because he voices their frustration. The older generations really need to own their culpability here and start caring about the next generations. They created this mess which is why they aren't being listened to now. Tone policing and putting pressure on dissidents to rightthink isn't the answer.

So how would you deal with him then? Not with the kid gloves that Tucker treated him, I would hope. Not by failing to discuss his more incendiary and hateful rhetoric, I would hope.

I address the issues that young people care about. If you can show the administration is championing America First principles and fighting the culture war in favor of Christian principles, you will appease much of his base. Or more specifically here, you show why we needed to send all that money to Israel instead of doing xyz for Americans especially given we claim to be an America First party. If you can't show that, you deserve to be criticized just like any other taxpayer can normally criticize a gov't budget that spent too much in their opinion on farm subsidies, bailouts to banks, etc. Avoiding the reasonable questions, attacking the man instead and trying to apply social pressure by othering him amounts to soft totalitarianism which we reject when leftists and socialists do it over LGBT or other issues to conservatives. We say in that instance let the marketplace of ideas reign but not here. This offends many people's sensibilities who see the hypocrisy.

When you insist on calling him a Nazi, or Hitler or Stalin sympathizer or whatever, young people reject you because they see that you are dodging the important issues to them and they like Nick. To them, he is funny, charismatic and fights for their causes and is of their generation. They don't want to see him fall. They see you as out of touch, uncaring and stealing from them making their lives more difficult than they should be. My advice would be to show them that is not the case.

Here, is an example of a conservative black family that listens to clips of Nick's "hateful rhetoric" put together by Shapiro and look at their responses to it:



Redbrickbear
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Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

I suppose we could try to pretend Tucker is some mere "podcaster" operating out of his basement, doesn't have a nightly audience of 3.25 million, doesn't speak at numerous conservative events all over the country, and doesn't have much sway in the party. But we both know that would be an intellectually dishonest position.

Last I checked, Ben Shapiro (and other Republicans) did exactly what you described - pushed back against the bull**** that Fuentes spouts. The fact they also called out Tucker for giving the dude a platform was also appropriate.


Tucker's actually normal episode audience is more like a million...but still....what exactly are people who don't like it supposed to do? Fox already kicked him off because they found him controversial and no longer liked his views. They can't de-platform him or stop him from saying things they don't like or having people on they don't like.

I would suggest people do exactly what they are doing, exactly what Ben Shapiro did. I have no advocated for anything else, which is why I am not sure what you're arguing against here, or think my position to be.


Not exactly....what at least some of them are doing is demanding this issue of podcasters become a major issue inside the party. Sucking up oxygen and energy right in the run up to a major election.

Ben is not the problem....he is speaking out on his show and doing what he should.

But the other internal political factions in the Party and letting themselves become distracted by this.....if you want a party wide debate then have it in the Spring when elections are not the focus point.

This issue is now tearing apart think tanks and conservative advocacy groups as the more pro-Israel side demands everyone and anyone must come out and totally and completely disavow Tucker right now....with no reservations.

So instead of focusing on the elections at hand....that the GOP just got crushed in....they are infighting over two podcasters

Senators and the very leader of the House are having to wade into the fight and deal with the press and the factional headache of dealing with all sides.

[At least eight individuals and organizations affiliated with Heritage's National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism, launched last year under the Project Esther banner, have resigned or threatened to do so, citing Heritage president Kevin Roberts's decision to stand by Carlson and his description of the television personality's critics as a "venomous coalition."

But speaking Monday night at Hillsdale College, an epicenter of contemporary Christian conservatism, Roberts offered new comments that showed he was aware of the hurt felt by Jews close to Heritage. Calling his initial video defending Carlson "a mistake made with the best of intentions," he apologized, "especially to any friends, particularly Jewish friends," and said, "The Heritage Foundation will never, ever, ever stop fighting against antisemitism in all its forms."

The Coalition for Jewish Values, led by Rabbi Yaakov Menken, said it has already communicated its intent to resign if Roberts does not retract his remarks and sever all ties with Carlson. ]

My initial questions on this thread were:

I am curious how the Tucker defenders feel about the interview. What say you? Think this is going to win the Republicans more votes?

That's really all I was interested in. I don't think Tucker should be cancelled,


I have honestly never watch Fuentes at all....I'm a old millennial and never interacted with his content or watched 5 mins of him that someone else did not post (mostly to show an extreme take or what I would call "shock jock stuff").....so I can't comment on him.

I have watched Tucker a lot.....on tv and his podcasts.

I don't have any problem with 90% of what Tucker says.

I think recently he has moved strongly into more outright conspiratorial stuff. I have no problem if people want to push back on that. I have been a strong opponent of the Russo-Ukraine war and the DC obsession with pulling Ukraine out of the old Russian orbit and into the Western bloc....thought that was a receipt for mass bloodshed & problems.

Recently I did see Tucker going beyond criticizing the U.S. deep state and foreign policy blob to being far more sympathetic to Putin. Putin of course is corrupt, an ex-KGB spook, he has not uplifted his country economically, this war in Ukraine is a disaster for his country, and now they are economic vassal to Red-China.

I think Tucker is underplaying how bad of a leader Putin is (corrupt & old) and over playing his domestic support....he is losing youth support in Russia.

On other issues as well there are things I agree with Tucker on and things I think he is far out on a limb about.

I would be a happy to criticize things he says that I don't agree with....but I would also not call for him to be cancelled and would strong oppose someone demanding I "denounce him" completely.

It would be a case by case basis based on specific views he had on specific issues.

I would not sign on to a general denunciation.
The_barBEARian
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Oldbear83 said:

He's ranting, not debating.


Just thought that should be noted.


What is the point in debating Boomer terrorists?

Your version of "Allah Ackbar" is calling someone "Adolf" or a "jew hater"
Oldbear83
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I do feel bad for you, FakeBearian.

It must suck that crap like your last post is the best you can manage for an argument.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Redbrickbear
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I am very willing to ban Fuentes if we can ban Randy Fine as well….

Mothra
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Redbrickbear said:

I am very willing to ban Fuentes if we can ban Randy Fine as well….



What a weak interview. Doesn't even attempt to explain why he asked zero tough questions of Fuentes.

Let's be honest - we all know why. He shares Fuentes's hatred of all things Jew, and as he has admitted, that's the most important issue to him. He'll excoriate Cruz, and soften Fuentes.

Tucker is a piece of *****
Mothra
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BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

BaylorFTW said:

Mothra said:

Sam Lowry said:

Mothra said:

Realitybites said:

Mothra said:

Realitybites said:

Tucker is a facilitator, not a gatekeeper.

You'll understand what he does better if you start there.

And then the last of the groypers and Tucker apologists makes an appearance.

Batting 1.000 on this thread.

Tucker only seems to ask the difficult questions of his "fellow" conservatives. If you're a racist or despot, you apparently get a pass.

But he's just a "facilitator" and all...


I am a Tucker apologist. He has done more to turn the political right into a movement and inform people than almost any other media figure. He's certainly done more than clowns like Hannity, Shapiro, Levin, and the two successors to Rush Limbaugh. Yeah he gets a pass.

I oppose this: Foreign Lobby Watch

I oppose Israel using AIPAC to circumvent FARA.

I oppose giving foreign nations aid when we have a debt to GDP ratio of 130%.

And yes, I believe that the Church is the Israel of God and the Mosaic covenant is done (Hebrews 8:13).

Apparently this makes me an anti-Semitic Hitler figure or something.

I am not a groyper. And while I disagree with some - possibly even much - of what Fuentes says, the two of us have this in common...after living our adult lives under the political orthodoxy enforced by the political establishment we are both well past caring what those who represent it care about what we think.

At one time I would have agreed with you on Tucker. And then in the last two years, after reading his bible for the first time, Tucker apparently found some flawed version of the Catholic God, and then began guzzling the conspiracy theory kool-aid like gin at a sorority party. It's what has led to his praise of despots, murderers, and racists - like Putin, the Iranian president, Candace Owens, and now, Fuentes - and then excoriating people like Ted Cruz, a fellow conservative who supports Israel.

I'd suggest there is a happy medium between the Mark Levins of the world, and complete anti-semitic radicalism that blames Jews for most of the world's ills, and believes everything is a conspiracy. The fact you are willing to give such hateful and racist rhetoric a pass says all one needs to know about you on these issues. You may be slightly more polished than the other anti-semites who've made an appearance on this thread, but the fact is you subscribe a flawed replacement theology that contradicts the plain language of scripture, and have also swallowed the kool-aid blaming the Jews for the world's ills.

The kind of hateful rhetoric that Fuentes spouts has no place in the conservative party if we desire to win anymore elections. But maybe like Fuentes, you're just interested in burning it down. You've also yet to learn that your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend.



There is no conservative party any more. It was sold for a penny's worth of "pragmatism."

A happy medium would mean free and honest criticism of Israel, or any country, without prejudice for or against any race or religion. There's practically no tolerance for that, as I can attest.


Criticism of Israel is fine. Racism isn't. Some people on this board like to blur the two.

Let's cut to the chase, Mothra. Has America given too much money to Israel, the nation?


Yes, and we agree Israel has had too much influence over American foreign policy at times. I also agree that Netanyahu is a POS.

One can hold that view and also not say the holocaust wasn't that bad or believe a Jewish cabal runs the world - like some of your groyper buddies on this thread.

Good for you, Mothra. I am afraid one begets the other though. For example, if we gave less money to Israel, there would be less ammunition for conspiracy theorists and the groyper movement would be much smaller because perceptions of America's future would be much better for young people. It also doesn't help if Nick's claim is true that Shapiro called an 18 year old Fuentes an antisemite for raising questions about why we were giving all this money to Israel. Maybe if Shapiro had handled that situation with a lot more grace and humility, we would be in a different place. But my guess is Shapiro ad hom attacked Fuentes because he didn't feel he could defend the spending with facts.



Have you ever listened to Nick's comments about Jews? He IS an anti-semite. I mean, that word gets thrown around a lot I know, but there's no other way to describe him. Neo-nazi is probably the most accurate term.

When a guy denies the Holocaust, and blames Jews for all of the world's ills, the label is accurate.

Asking a Jewish person to be more sympathetic or understanding of a very hateful and racist dude that literally hates that individual because of his race is asking a whole hell of a lot. If I were a Jew, I'd be saying a lot stronger things to that POS.

Not at 18 he wasn't. At that point, Fuentes was a campaigner for Ted Cruz. And Shapiro was an accomplished political commentator at that time who had heard it all. Yet, he went out of his way to attack an 18 year old on social media showing no maturity or self control. Shapiro was the adult in the room but didn't behave like it.

And I am still not sure how much of the current Fuentes we see is an act. He is obviously a provocateur so it is hard to know given a lot of his appeal is based off him being a troll saying the things current polite society says you cannot not say. He says some things that I would say are in conflict with his own beliefs as a practicing Catholic like saying he is a fan of Stalin. Catholics and other Christians were treated terribly under Stalin so I am not sure he could defend that position if challenged with those realities. But I think from his perspective he just knows it gets a rise out of people and that is the point.

Agree he is a troll, which is why what he says is so destructive. He is not the sympathetic figure you seem to make him.

He is a sympathetic figure to young people. When you attack him, you are attacking young people by default. He is popular with them because he voices their frustration. The older generations really need to own their culpability here and start caring about the next generations. They created this mess which is why they aren't being listened to now. Tone policing and putting pressure on dissidents to rightthink isn't the answer.

So how would you deal with him then? Not with the kid gloves that Tucker treated him, I would hope. Not by failing to discuss his more incendiary and hateful rhetoric, I would hope.

I address the issues that young people care about. If you can show the administration is championing America First principles and fighting the culture war in favor of Christian principles, you will appease much of his base. Or more specifically here, you show why we needed to send all that money to Israel instead of doing xyz for Americans especially given we claim to be an America First party. If you can't show that, you deserve to be criticized just like any other taxpayer can normally criticize a gov't budget that spent too much in their opinion on farm subsidies, bailouts to banks, etc. Avoiding the reasonable questions, attacking the man instead and trying to apply social pressure by othering him amounts to soft totalitarianism which we reject when leftists and socialists do it over LGBT or other issues to conservatives. We say in that instance let the marketplace of ideas reign but not here. This offends many people's sensibilities who see the hypocrisy.

When you insist on calling him a Nazi, or Hitler or Stalin sympathizer or whatever, young people reject you because they see that you are dodging the important issues to them and they like Nick. To them, he is funny, charismatic and fights for their causes and is of their generation. They don't want to see him fall. They see you as out of touch, uncaring and stealing from them making their lives more difficult than they should be. My advice would be to show them that is not the case.

Here, is an example of a conservative black family that listens to clips of Nick's "hateful rhetoric" put together by Shapiro and look at their responses to it:

Gotta say, I am really not following this logic. Essentially what you are saying is we shouldn't point out the hateful, racist and incredibly vile things Fuentes says because telling the truth will hurt the feelings of white, Republican snowflake millenials.

Well, might be time for them to leave the parents' basement and toughen the **** up. The truth hurts.

Redbrickbear
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muddybrazos
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Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

I am very willing to ban Fuentes if we can ban Randy Fine as well….



What a weak interview. Doesn't even attempt to explain why he asked zero tough questions of Fuentes.

Let's be honest - we all know why. He shares Fuentes's hatred of all things Jew, and as he has admitted, that's the most important issue to him. He'll excoriate Cruz, and soften Fuentes.

Tucker is a piece of *****

Why is automatically considered hatred to ask why jewsish zionists control both parties of OUR governement. Shouldnt we actually be able to have control of our own country? We dont but we should. Our govt is shutdown but money for ISraels wars is not shutdown.
boognish_bear
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muddybrazos
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boognish_bear said:



He was for free speech until he got the call and now made a hostage video. This is our country in a nutshell.
boognish_bear
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BaylorFTW
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Why Tucker Interviewed Nick Fuentes

Redbrickbear
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This whole tempest in a tea pot over podcasts is so stupid….


The_barBEARian
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Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

I am very willing to ban Fuentes if we can ban Randy Fine as well….



What a weak interview. Doesn't even attempt to explain why he asked zero tough questions of Fuentes.

Let's be honest - we all know why. He shares Fuentes's hatred of all things Jew, and as he has admitted, that's the most important issue to him. He'll excoriate Cruz, and soften Fuentes.

Tucker is a piece of *****


Same Energy:



The_barBEARian
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Glad my Boomer Senator is working hard to advance his Israel First agenda:



The government will shutdown for tax paying Americans, troops, and air traffic controllers... but no government shutdown is going to stop Washington politicians from sending tribute to Israel
Redbrickbear
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Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

I am very willing to ban Fuentes if we can ban Randy Fine as well….



What a weak interview. Doesn't even attempt to explain why he asked zero tough questions of Fuentes.


Tucker is a piece of *****


Tucker goes off the rails some times I agree

But we can't discount him because he comes by with such good takes…like this one about collective punishment


The_barBEARian
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Fox News is giving PATRIOT awards to guys who choose to serve in the IDF over the US military... unbelievable...

whiterock
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Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

Sam Lowry said:

Redbrickbear said:

Sam Lowry said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

I think you're confusing de-platform with giving a much bigger platform to heinous ideas. These are two very distinct scenarios.

Nobody said let's de-platform Tucker or even Fuentes. What they're saying is Tucker shouldn't give his platform to racist and hateful ideas. And there's absolutely nothing unamerican about that.


The people attacking Tucker or Fuentes were not platforming them before this…in the case of Fuentes I'm sure they did not even know he existed (heck I'm a online millennial and I barely am aware of him…he is Gen Z coded content of a very troll-ish or Howard stern in the 90s kind of shock jock schtick)

But these groups attacking them have been successful in one way…that is turning the Right into an inside slap fight clown match about some mostly meaningless podcasters with 1/50th the audience of Joe Rogan on the eve of a big election fight….a fight the GOP just lost big by the way. Maybe setting up to lose the House and watch the Left impeach Trump again for the 3rd time.

And while the attacks on Tucker and Fuentes are fine by me in a general way….they are using standard coded liberal-leftist language…."muh racism", "dangerous viewpoints", "mainstreaming hate"

Instead of arguing with the actual statements, making a convincing counter argument, and winning the battle of ideas.

Go out and make the case to 20 year old conservatives online why we need to give Israel billions. If you have the arguments then make them. Explain to the terminal online kids how it helps them and the USA.

Go out and explain why Churchill was not wrong in WWII to stand up to Hitler and advocate for never trusting him…and how Churchill was not a "villain". But also be willing to grapple with the young folks in the USA and Europe sick to death of WWII being used at a modern weaponized argument for pushing endless Leftist ideas like anti-nationalism and mass 3rd world migration.

Just drop the tactics we have seen used against milk toast conservatives by the far left on college campuses for 50 years.

Young people are sick of that ****

It's not about coding. They're calling Fuentes a dangerous racist because that's what he is. And you're playing into the lie by conflating his racism with opposition to Israel.


And the left has used that term so often against so many people who are not that it becomes meaningless to most people.

Certainly to the young who have seen that old game play out 100,000 times in their short lives.

Again you are not convincing them by argument….you're throwing out insults…possibly true insult. But still the same insults they see the Left use constantly.

If this is the best you have…then it's not surprising the youth are not listening anymore. This stuff just rolls off them



I don't agree that the reaction is insignificant. The youth will set our course in the not too distant future.


Then you have to get out there (even on these pod casts) and meet them and debate them. And bring them over to your side.

Let the youth know you hear them, understand their concerns, and how your way is better or how the person they are listening to is wrong.

But the biggest way to get 20 year old rightwingers to run to the podcast shock jock you dislike is to call him "racist" or "hater".

They will run to him just to be contrarian and to listen the guy the old folks are scared of….

PS

And while we are fighting about Israel and podcast hosts the Left is racking up electoral wins on the ground and taking control of whole states and the most important city in the country

We agree on a lot of things, but you're wrong here. We need to be critical of the fringe, hateful elements of our side. Giving credence to and legitimizing racist ideas by treating them as normal ideas that should be debated is doing a huge disservice to conservatism.


But no one has legitimized Fuentes and platformed him

He has a podcast

Not sure what this Republican infighting is supposed to accomplish being that he is not embraced by Republican leaders and he has podcast none of them can do anything about.

Spot. On. No one is responsible for Fuentes except Fuentes. We can let him gnaw away below the surface and quietly convert angry minds, or we can expose his bad ideas to sunlight and disinfect them with good ideas. Tucker has arguably done us a favor in that regard.
whiterock
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The_barBEARian said:

Fox News is giving PATRIOT awards to guys who choose to serve in the IDF over the US military... unbelievable...



He's an incredibly brave man choosing to fight our enemies where he can, when he can, rather than wait for more limited and less frequent engagement by US military.

Do you feel the same way about the Lafayette Espadrille, the Koscuiuszko Squadron, the Eagle Squadrons, the Flying Tigers?

Mothra
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muddybrazos said:

Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

I am very willing to ban Fuentes if we can ban Randy Fine as well….



What a weak interview. Doesn't even attempt to explain why he asked zero tough questions of Fuentes.

Let's be honest - we all know why. He shares Fuentes's hatred of all things Jew, and as he has admitted, that's the most important issue to him. He'll excoriate Cruz, and soften Fuentes.

Tucker is a piece of *****

Why is automatically considered hatred to ask why jewsish zionists control both parties of OUR governement. Shouldnt we actually be able to have control of our own country? We dont but we should. Our govt is shutdown but money for ISraels wars is not shutdown.


It's not hateful to ask that question. It's just not a true premise to begin with.

You guys believe in a Jewish bogeyman that doesn't exist.
Mothra
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muddybrazos said:

boognish_bear said:



He was for free speech until he got the call and now made a hostage video. This is our country in a nutshell.


Hilarious that you see this as a "free speech" issue. Let me dispel your ignorance - there is no govt actor here.

Criticizing a POS like Tucker for soft pedaling a POS is not a restriction on free speech rights.
Mothra
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Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

I am very willing to ban Fuentes if we can ban Randy Fine as well….



What a weak interview. Doesn't even attempt to explain why he asked zero tough questions of Fuentes.


Tucker is a piece of *****


Tucker goes off the rails some times I agree

But we can't discount him because he comes by with such good takes…like this one about collective punishment





Tucker does have good takes and we used to agree far more often than not. But I've seen no substantive evidence that Israel was targeting children in Gaza. Yet he repeats that position as if it's verifiable fact.

If we were honest with ourselves, the main opposition to what happened in Gaza is Israel is engaged in it. We were ok with going after Isis and the Taliban but the minute a Jew goes after Gaza Islamic terrorists, it's genocide. Convenient.
Mothra
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whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

Redbrickbear said:

Sam Lowry said:

Redbrickbear said:

Sam Lowry said:

Redbrickbear said:

Mothra said:

I think you're confusing de-platform with giving a much bigger platform to heinous ideas. These are two very distinct scenarios.

Nobody said let's de-platform Tucker or even Fuentes. What they're saying is Tucker shouldn't give his platform to racist and hateful ideas. And there's absolutely nothing unamerican about that.


The people attacking Tucker or Fuentes were not platforming them before this…in the case of Fuentes I'm sure they did not even know he existed (heck I'm a online millennial and I barely am aware of him…he is Gen Z coded content of a very troll-ish or Howard stern in the 90s kind of shock jock schtick)

But these groups attacking them have been successful in one way…that is turning the Right into an inside slap fight clown match about some mostly meaningless podcasters with 1/50th the audience of Joe Rogan on the eve of a big election fight….a fight the GOP just lost big by the way. Maybe setting up to lose the House and watch the Left impeach Trump again for the 3rd time.

And while the attacks on Tucker and Fuentes are fine by me in a general way….they are using standard coded liberal-leftist language…."muh racism", "dangerous viewpoints", "mainstreaming hate"

Instead of arguing with the actual statements, making a convincing counter argument, and winning the battle of ideas.

Go out and make the case to 20 year old conservatives online why we need to give Israel billions. If you have the arguments then make them. Explain to the terminal online kids how it helps them and the USA.

Go out and explain why Churchill was not wrong in WWII to stand up to Hitler and advocate for never trusting him…and how Churchill was not a "villain". But also be willing to grapple with the young folks in the USA and Europe sick to death of WWII being used at a modern weaponized argument for pushing endless Leftist ideas like anti-nationalism and mass 3rd world migration.

Just drop the tactics we have seen used against milk toast conservatives by the far left on college campuses for 50 years.

Young people are sick of that ****

It's not about coding. They're calling Fuentes a dangerous racist because that's what he is. And you're playing into the lie by conflating his racism with opposition to Israel.


And the left has used that term so often against so many people who are not that it becomes meaningless to most people.

Certainly to the young who have seen that old game play out 100,000 times in their short lives.

Again you are not convincing them by argument….you're throwing out insults…possibly true insult. But still the same insults they see the Left use constantly.

If this is the best you have…then it's not surprising the youth are not listening anymore. This stuff just rolls off them



I don't agree that the reaction is insignificant. The youth will set our course in the not too distant future.


Then you have to get out there (even on these pod casts) and meet them and debate them. And bring them over to your side.

Let the youth know you hear them, understand their concerns, and how your way is better or how the person they are listening to is wrong.

But the biggest way to get 20 year old rightwingers to run to the podcast shock jock you dislike is to call him "racist" or "hater".

They will run to him just to be contrarian and to listen the guy the old folks are scared of….

PS

And while we are fighting about Israel and podcast hosts the Left is racking up electoral wins on the ground and taking control of whole states and the most important city in the country

We agree on a lot of things, but you're wrong here. We need to be critical of the fringe, hateful elements of our side. Giving credence to and legitimizing racist ideas by treating them as normal ideas that should be debated is doing a huge disservice to conservatism.


But no one has legitimized Fuentes and platformed him

He has a podcast

Not sure what this Republican infighting is supposed to accomplish being that he is not embraced by Republican leaders and he has podcast none of them can do anything about.

Spot. On. No one is responsible for Fuentes except Fuentes. We can let him gnaw away below the surface and quietly convert angry minds, or we can expose his bad ideas to sunlight and disinfect them with good ideas. Tucker has arguably done us a favor in that regard.


Just so I'm clear, you think the Tucker softball interview of Fuentes exposed his bad ideas?

You didn't even watch the video did you? Only someone completely ignorant of the interview could come up with this ridiculous take .
whiterock
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Mothra said:

muddybrazos said:

boognish_bear said:



He was for free speech until he got the call and now made a hostage video. This is our country in a nutshell.


Hilarious that you see this as a "free speech" issue. Let me dispel your ignorance - there is no govt actor here.

Criticizing a POS like Tucker for soft pedaling a POS is not a restriction on free speech rights.


correct. it's moral argument. which can be painful when you make bad arguments.

I was on a private forum for a while that had a tag line on the landing page:
"Welcome here. Say anything you want, but don't come whining to the mods when you get kicked in the nuts."
Mothra
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whiterock said:

Mothra said:

muddybrazos said:

boognish_bear said:



He was for free speech until he got the call and now made a hostage video. This is our country in a nutshell.


Hilarious that you see this as a "free speech" issue. Let me dispel your ignorance - there is no govt actor here.

Criticizing a POS like Tucker for soft pedaling a POS is not a restriction on free speech rights.


correct. it's moral argument. which can be painful when you make bad arguments.

I was on a private forum for a while that had a tag line on the landing page:
"Welcome here. Say anything you want, but don't come whining to the mods when you get kicked in the nuts."



There's no good argument - moral or otherwise - for the normalization of Nick Fuentes.

I'd suggest actually watching the interview if you are under the impression that Tucker exposed his bad ideas.
whiterock
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Mothra said:

whiterock said:

Mothra said:

muddybrazos said:

boognish_bear said:



He was for free speech until he got the call and now made a hostage video. This is our country in a nutshell.


Hilarious that you see this as a "free speech" issue. Let me dispel your ignorance - there is no govt actor here.

Criticizing a POS like Tucker for soft pedaling a POS is not a restriction on free speech rights.


correct. it's moral argument. which can be painful when you make bad arguments.

I was on a private forum for a while that had a tag line on the landing page:
"Welcome here. Say anything you want, but don't come whining to the mods when you get kicked in the nuts."



There's no good argument - moral or otherwise - for the normalization of Nick Fuentes.

I'd suggest actually watching the interview if you are under the impression that Tucker exposed his bad ideas.

"normalization"

I don't think engaging in a conversation with objectionable views normalizes them per se. In fact, engagement is necessary to win the moral argument. E.G. Charlie Kirk. What normalizes objectionable views is agreeing with them. Calmly dissecting them like a gelid frog on a well-lit stage in front of millions is the best medicine of all.

Suppression is not a terribly reliable tool. Some organisms thrive in dark, damp places. Stick that gelid frog between the couch cushions and it'll cause all kinds of unpleasantness.

The best tool of all is policy which achieves common good. It sucks energy out of pathological ecosystems.
Mothra
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whiterock said:

Mothra said:

whiterock said:

Mothra said:

muddybrazos said:

boognish_bear said:



He was for free speech until he got the call and now made a hostage video. This is our country in a nutshell.


Hilarious that you see this as a "free speech" issue. Let me dispel your ignorance - there is no govt actor here.

Criticizing a POS like Tucker for soft pedaling a POS is not a restriction on free speech rights.


correct. it's moral argument. which can be painful when you make bad arguments.

I was on a private forum for a while that had a tag line on the landing page:
"Welcome here. Say anything you want, but don't come whining to the mods when you get kicked in the nuts."



There's no good argument - moral or otherwise - for the normalization of Nick Fuentes.

I'd suggest actually watching the interview if you are under the impression that Tucker exposed his bad ideas.

"normalization"

I don't think engaging in a conversation with objectionable views normalizes them per se. In fact, engagement is necessary to win the moral argument. E.G. Charlie Kirk. What normalizes objectionable views is agreeing with them. Calmly dissecting them like a gelid frog on a well-lit stage in front of millions is the best medicine of all.

Suppression is not a terribly reliable tool. Some organisms thrive in dark, damp places. Stick that gelid frog between the couch cushions and it'll cause all kinds of unpleasantness.

The best tool of all is policy which achieves common good. It sucks energy out of pathological ecosystems.


I am curious which of Nick Fuentes' objectionable views you believe Tucker engaged with?
muddybrazos
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Tucker is based now.
Oldbear83
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muddybrazos said:



Tucker is biased now.


Fixed
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
 
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