FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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As the publicity fades, the Tokens are turning on the white womenz:
https://ohunashe.substack.com/p/dear-white-women-your-welling-meaning?r=6xdhop&utm_medium=ios&fbclid=IwY2xjawP46k9leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFmTWx5eDBDV0hCYkZxakxyc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHs7s_-FHreWORDnxeGAhx8xYNaobSx-MoHSfODzXehhy91iJYfawiM2ZUKMC_aem_MJ6fmo9NbJ-0gvkbWucxKA&triedRedirect=true

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This is the author:


Ohun Ashe
@ohunashe

STL - Big 314 energy Black empowerment Queer AF Woman Plant Mom. Sharing my truth in mental health, advocacy, life reflections and a little politics.

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Honest question (that will be ignored) - can anyone name a single city, state, country, or region where bleks have made it better than it was before they arrived? I will take one example.

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Going full on racists, huh???

Wow, Christian University...

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Help me out here.

How is his question racist ?

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The guy asks one place blacks made better and that is not race oriented?

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No, of course not.

And stating that few whites are playing in the NBA is also not racist.

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You really do not see the difference?

Would you post that question on your job site?

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Nope

News flash for ya…….on a construction site at least 65% of the men are Hispanic.

In agriculture closer to 90%.

Regardless of the occupation these Hispanics believe most whites are yuppie wimps; afraid of hard work. Believe that it's the Hispanics who are the real men.

Is this racism ?

Nope, just people being people.

However I have always preferred the Hispanic culture to that of the university crowd.

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I agree with you. Living in FL Cuban and Caribbean cultures are a way of life here.

Most of pur mechanics growing up were Hispanic.

Asking to name one place they made better by being there is racist.

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It is not racist to ask for demographic based information.

Just answer the question.

Edit: just read the rest of the thread. You claim to have answered the question, but you didn't.
Yes, there are plenty of places where minorities thrive, but most of them are places where they are MINORITIES not the majority. That is the point of the question.

FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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As the publicity fades, the Tokens are turning on the white womenz:
https://ohunashe.substack.com/p/dear-white-women-your-welling-meaning?r=6xdhop&utm_medium=ios&fbclid=IwY2xjawP46k9leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFmTWx5eDBDV0hCYkZxakxyc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHs7s_-FHreWORDnxeGAhx8xYNaobSx-MoHSfODzXehhy91iJYfawiM2ZUKMC_aem_MJ6fmo9NbJ-0gvkbWucxKA&triedRedirect=true

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This is the author:


Ohun Ashe
@ohunashe

STL - Big 314 energy Black empowerment Queer AF Woman Plant Mom. Sharing my truth in mental health, advocacy, life reflections and a little politics.

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Honest question (that will be ignored) - can anyone name a single city, state, country, or region where bleks have made it better than it was before they arrived? I will take one example.

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Going full on racists, huh???

Wow, Christian University...

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Help me out here.

How is his question racist ?

---

The guy asks one place blacks made better and that is not race oriented?

---

No, of course not.

And stating that few whites are playing in the NBA is also not racist.

---

You really do not see the difference?

Would you post that question on your job site?

---

Nope

News flash for ya…….on a construction site at least 65% of the men are Hispanic.

In agriculture closer to 90%.

Regardless of the occupation these Hispanics believe most whites are yuppie wimps; afraid of hard work. Believe that it's the Hispanics who are the real men.

Is this racism ?

Nope, just people being people.

However I have always preferred the Hispanic culture to that of the university crowd.

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I agree with you. Living in FL Cuban and Caribbean cultures are a way of life here.

Most of pur mechanics growing up were Hispanic.

Asking to name one place they made better by Howeverbeing there is racist.

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No it is not.

And you have not answered his question.

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Better for whom? What a Baylor Political poster believes is worse, a person from that area may believe it is better. You guys really do not see that, there is only one better - what a white Baylor grad thinks it is? Seriously?

Well here is an article on 10 places.

https://travelnoire.com/10-cities-black-americans-successful

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And of course, they missed the actual best town Cedar Hill where the average was right at 79K at the last census and they are the majority by a large margin now in Cedar Hill.

Been through there multiple times, it's a great little city.

Nope. In both cases the protesters chose to interfere with ICE operations.

Oldbear83 said:

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Nope. In both cases the protesters chose to interfere with ICE operations.

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So for that, proportional response is not required.

FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Nope. In both cases the protesters chose to interfere with ICE operations.

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So for that, proportional response is not required.

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Nope. All that is required is that they deal with the threats that appear the fastest and most effectively they can to ensure the safety of themselves and the general public.

FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Nope. In both cases the protesters chose to interfere with ICE operations.

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So for that, proportional response is not required.

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At what level is shooting appropriate? And, does it extend beyond Democrats and Irrigation? Say, Jan 6th? Was it ok to shoot?

Proportionality is what ensures public safety.

FLBear5630 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Nope. In both cases the protesters chose to interfere with ICE operations.

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So for that, proportional response is not required.

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At what level is shooting appropriate? And, does it extend beyond Democrats and Irrigation? Say, Jan 6th? Was it ok to shoot?

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FLBear trying to restart the arguments he lost the first couple times.

Sam Lowry said:

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Proportionality is what ensures public safety.

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I'd suggest common sense plays a bigger role, but since you oppose it I can see why you fall back to another word.

Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Proportionality is what ensures public safety.

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I'd suggest common sense plays a bigger role, but since you oppose it I can see why you fall back to another word.

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Judge dismisses charges against men accused of assaulting ICE officer in Minneapolis shooting case



Sort of like this, shot through a closed door? This is MN, same surge. Maybe the ROEs are a bit off for law enforcement?

Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Nope. In both cases the protesters chose to interfere with ICE operations.

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So for that, proportional response is not required.

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At what level is shooting appropriate? And, does it extend beyond Democrats and Irrigation? Say, Jan 6th? Was it ok to shoot?

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FLBear trying to restart the arguments he lost the first couple times.

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The Surge is over. The tactics changed, on both sides. Bongino was removed. Homan had to personally go there to get the situation under control. I wouldn't categorize it as a loss.

But, fair enough. We can move on to something else.

FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Nope. In both cases the protesters chose to interfere with ICE operations.

---

So for that, proportional response is not required.

---

At what level is shooting appropriate? And, does it extend beyond Democrats and Irrigation? Say, Jan 6th? Was it ok to shoot?

---

FLBear trying to restart the arguments he lost the first couple times.

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The Surge is over. The tactics changed, on both sides. Bongino was removed. Homan had to personally go there to get the situation under control. I wouldn't categorize it as a loss.

But, fair enough. We can move on to something else.

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Your preloaded response for when Minnesota officials finally caved and cooperated with ICE. PS. Bongino had nothing to do with Minnesota.

FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Nope. In both cases the protesters chose to interfere with ICE operations.

---

So for that, proportional response is not required.

---

At what level is shooting appropriate? And, does it extend beyond Democrats and Irrigation? Say, Jan 6th? Was it ok to shoot?

---

FLBear trying to restart the arguments he lost the first couple times.

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The Surge is over. The tactics changed, on both sides. Bongino was removed. Homan had to personally go there to get the situation under control. I wouldn't categorize it as a loss.

But, fair enough. We can move on to something else.

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The tactics on both sides changed? When did the protesters agree to stop impeding and attacking the agents?

At the end of the day, the blood from these two deaths like squarely on the hands of Democrats:

1. Democrat politicians continue to use Orwellian hysterical disinformation to excite the low information base

2. Foreign billionaires and foreign governments funded trained anti-government militias to interfere with law enforcement and cause chaos.

3. Mentally ill people without religion and meaning looked to these groups for purpose.

4. They interfered with lawful law enforcement and exponentially raised the level of confusion and stress on officers.

5. One woman tried to hit an officer with her car, another brought a weapon and multiple magazines to interfere, which does not mean one deserves death but exponentially increases one's risk.

6. The only reason anyone is defending these two people is TDS or they love rapists and pedophiles.

I have little patience for selective outrage. None of these morons protested while Obama was doing the same thing.

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

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That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

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if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

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In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

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you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

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That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

There's that magical "de-escalate" solution you can't seem to explain. Like how you would have magically deescalated Good while she blew whistles and blocked the street, or how you would have deescalated Pretti, the unhinged unemployed lunatic who had a passion for attacking ICE.

For FLBear, the one supreme rule is that Trump's policies and appointees must be blamed for everything, even uif you have to lie and rant to do so.

Oldbear83 said:

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For FLBear, the one supreme rule is that Trump's policies and appointees must be blamed for everything, even uif you have to lie and rant to do so.

---

He can't explain why they weren't forming anti-government militias when Obama was deporting illegals. I wonder what changed?

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

ShooterTX said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

He only thinks police are justified shooting Trump supporters. He justifies the shooting of Ashli Babbitt because she supports President Trump. You cannot reason with someone who views every act via a lens of tribalism and TDS. That's why none of this can be reasoned with or approached logically ... there is not logic just ORANGE MAN BAD ! ! !

ShooterTX said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

Heat of the moment....

It's easy to say such things now, but in that moment the cop who pulled the trigger didn't know that someone else had removed the gun.
The cop who removed the gun was supposed to yell out that he had secured the weapon. Instead he only yelled out "gun", so the others thought the criminal had the gun in his hands. His hands were not secured. It was logical to hear that call out, see his hands near his waist, and assume he was drawing or holding a gun.

The reality is that no one with half a brain gets involved in a police action and then fights with cops while they are carrying a concealed gun.
Only a suicidal moron does that.... and such a person is a deadly threat to everyone around him. If he doesn't care enough to keep himself out of a deadly situation, then it's very likely that he could be wanting to commit a murder/suicide event.

This was the 2nd time (at least) that he carried a gun while physically engaging with ICE Agents. This guy was suicidal at best. Homicidal is most likely.... potential mass shooter at worst.

People need to stop making him out to be a martyr.... he was a criminal.

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

Was the killing of Ashli Babbitt a proportional response?

Your Second Amendment Talking Point is just stupid at this point. It's embarrassing.

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

What deescalation method would have worked on Good as she sat blocking the street for 10 minutes while her dyke friend filmed and antagonized agents? What deescalation method would have worked on Pretti as he intervened while agents dealt with physical interference? Or how about as he assaulted agents and agent vehicles? What's your method for those two specific people?

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

What deescalation method would have worked on Good as she sat blocking the street for 10 minutes while her dyke friend filmed and antagonized agents? What deescalation method would have worked on Pretti as he intervened while agents dealt with physical interference? Or how about as he assaulted agents and agent vehicles? What's your method for those two specific people?

---

Come on. That's not fair. Don't ask specific questions. There is not a Talking Point for that. He cannot answer or explain Ashli Babbitt. Selective outrage is selective.

nm

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

Heat of the moment....

It's easy to say such things now, but in that moment the cop who pulled the trigger didn't know that someone else had removed the gun.
The cop who removed the gun was supposed to yell out that he had secured the weapon. Instead he only yelled out "gun", so the others thought the criminal had the gun in his hands. His hands were not secured. It was logical to hear that call out, see his hands near his waist, and assume he was drawing or holding a gun.

The reality is that no one with half a brain gets involved in a police action and then fights with cops while they are carrying a concealed gun.
Only a suicidal moron does that.... and such a person is a deadly threat to everyone around him. If he doesn't care enough to keep himself out of a deadly situation, then it's very likely that he could be wanting to commit a murder/suicide event.

This was the 2nd time (at least) that he carried a gun while physically engaging with ICE Agents. This guy was suicidal at best. Homicidal is most likely.... potential mass shooter at worst.

People need to stop making him out to be a martyr.... he was a criminal.

---

Well, we used to be innocent into proven guilty. But, even moving beyond that. We will agree he committed a criminal act, he did not deserve a death sentence for what he did. He was also an ICU Nurse at the VA taking care of veterans, if we want to measure value...

ICE made him a martyr. He should be getting out after his month stay in jail for kicking the car.

Heat of the moment is what you train for, so you don't lose it. But, not a lot you can do in 47 days. They pushed those guys in the field and it blew up in their faces, literally. People that should be doing community service after going to court are dead.

---

Was the killing of Ashli Babbitt a proportional response?

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

Heat of the moment....

It's easy to say such things now, but in that moment the cop who pulled the trigger didn't know that someone else had removed the gun.
The cop who removed the gun was supposed to yell out that he had secured the weapon. Instead he only yelled out "gun", so the others thought the criminal had the gun in his hands. His hands were not secured. It was logical to hear that call out, see his hands near his waist, and assume he was drawing or holding a gun.

The reality is that no one with half a brain gets involved in a police action and then fights with cops while they are carrying a concealed gun.
Only a suicidal moron does that.... and such a person is a deadly threat to everyone around him. If he doesn't care enough to keep himself out of a deadly situation, then it's very likely that he could be wanting to commit a murder/suicide event.

This was the 2nd time (at least) that he carried a gun while physically engaging with ICE Agents. This guy was suicidal at best. Homicidal is most likely.... potential mass shooter at worst.

People need to stop making him out to be a martyr.... he was a criminal.

---

Well, we used to be innocent into proven guilty. But, even moving beyond that. We will agree he committed a criminal act, he did not deserve a death sentence for what he did. He was also an ICU Nurse at the VA taking care of veterans, if we want to measure value...

ICE made him a martyr. He should be getting out after his month stay in jail for kicking the car.

Heat of the moment is what you train for, so you don't lose it. But, not a lot you can do in 47 days. They pushed those guys in the field and it blew up in their faces, literally. People that should be doing community service after going to court are dead.

---

Good news! He wasn't handed a death sentence. He was shot in the chaos he alone created. How many days training at subversion do you think he had? 47 days? More? He had plenty of time to train seeing that he was unemployed. ****ing moronic to try to blame anyone but the armed ******* who was out assaulting federal agents...again.

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

It's easy to say such things now, but in that moment the cop who pulled the trigger didn't know that someone else had removed the gun.
The cop who removed the gun was supposed to yell out that he had secured the weapon. Instead he only yelled out "gun", so the others thought the criminal had the gun in his hands. His hands were not secured. It was logical to hear that call out, see his hands near his waist, and assume he was drawing or holding a gun.

---

Everything in this narrative is either speculative or in contradiction of the evidence. It is interesting to see how the alternative facts develop and take on a life of their own.

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

Heat of the moment....

It's easy to say such things now, but in that moment the cop who pulled the trigger didn't know that someone else had removed the gun.
The cop who removed the gun was supposed to yell out that he had secured the weapon. Instead he only yelled out "gun", so the others thought the criminal had the gun in his hands. His hands were not secured. It was logical to hear that call out, see his hands near his waist, and assume he was drawing or holding a gun.

The reality is that no one with half a brain gets involved in a police action and then fights with cops while they are carrying a concealed gun.
Only a suicidal moron does that.... and such a person is a deadly threat to everyone around him. If he doesn't care enough to keep himself out of a deadly situation, then it's very likely that he could be wanting to commit a murder/suicide event.

This was the 2nd time (at least) that he carried a gun while physically engaging with ICE Agents. This guy was suicidal at best. Homicidal is most likely.... potential mass shooter at worst.

People need to stop making him out to be a martyr.... he was a criminal.

---

Well, we used to be innocent into proven guilty. But, even moving beyond that. We will agree he committed a criminal act, he did not deserve a death sentence for what he did. He was also an ICU Nurse at the VA taking care of veterans, if we want to measure value...

ICE made him a martyr. He should be getting out after his month stay in jail for kicking the car.

Heat of the moment is what you train for, so you don't lose it. But, not a lot you can do in 47 days. They pushed those guys in the field and it blew up in their faces, literally. People that should be doing community service after going to court are dead.

---

He had plenty of time to train seeing that he was unemployed.

---

More alternative facts.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

Heat of the moment....

It's easy to say such things now, but in that moment the cop who pulled the trigger didn't know that someone else had removed the gun.
The cop who removed the gun was supposed to yell out that he had secured the weapon. Instead he only yelled out "gun", so the others thought the criminal had the gun in his hands. His hands were not secured. It was logical to hear that call out, see his hands near his waist, and assume he was drawing or holding a gun.

The reality is that no one with half a brain gets involved in a police action and then fights with cops while they are carrying a concealed gun.
Only a suicidal moron does that.... and such a person is a deadly threat to everyone around him. If he doesn't care enough to keep himself out of a deadly situation, then it's very likely that he could be wanting to commit a murder/suicide event.

This was the 2nd time (at least) that he carried a gun while physically engaging with ICE Agents. This guy was suicidal at best. Homicidal is most likely.... potential mass shooter at worst.

People need to stop making him out to be a martyr.... he was a criminal.

---

Well, we used to be innocent into proven guilty. But, even moving beyond that. We will agree he committed a criminal act, he did not deserve a death sentence for what he did. He was also an ICU Nurse at the VA taking care of veterans, if we want to measure value...

ICE made him a martyr. He should be getting out after his month stay in jail for kicking the car.

Heat of the moment is what you train for, so you don't lose it. But, not a lot you can do in 47 days. They pushed those guys in the field and it blew up in their faces, literally. People that should be doing community service after going to court are dead.

---

He had plenty of time to train seeing that he was unemployed.

---

More alternative facts.

---

You're right, the unemployed violent nutjob didn't really have enough time to train properly. 5 month unemployed isn't nearly enough time.

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

Heat of the moment....

It's easy to say such things now, but in that moment the cop who pulled the trigger didn't know that someone else had removed the gun.
The cop who removed the gun was supposed to yell out that he had secured the weapon. Instead he only yelled out "gun", so the others thought the criminal had the gun in his hands. His hands were not secured. It was logical to hear that call out, see his hands near his waist, and assume he was drawing or holding a gun.

The reality is that no one with half a brain gets involved in a police action and then fights with cops while they are carrying a concealed gun.
Only a suicidal moron does that.... and such a person is a deadly threat to everyone around him. If he doesn't care enough to keep himself out of a deadly situation, then it's very likely that he could be wanting to commit a murder/suicide event.

This was the 2nd time (at least) that he carried a gun while physically engaging with ICE Agents. This guy was suicidal at best. Homicidal is most likely.... potential mass shooter at worst.

People need to stop making him out to be a martyr.... he was a criminal.

---

Well, we used to be innocent into proven guilty. But, even moving beyond that. We will agree he committed a criminal act, he did not deserve a death sentence for what he did. He was also an ICU Nurse at the VA taking care of veterans, if we want to measure value...

ICE made him a martyr. He should be getting out after his month stay in jail for kicking the car.

Heat of the moment is what you train for, so you don't lose it. But, not a lot you can do in 47 days. They pushed those guys in the field and it blew up in their faces, literally. People that should be doing community service after going to court are dead.

---

He had plenty of time to train seeing that he was unemployed.

---

More alternative facts.

---

You're right, the unemployed violent nutjob didn't really have enough time to train properly. 5 month unemployed isn't nearly enough time.

---

Disinformation.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Ahem…..

CBS NEWS: "A record number of detainees are giving up their cases and voluntarily leaving the country... That figure only appears to be climbing." 👍🏻 pic.twitter.com/zv4OVq6RXP

— Rapid Response 47 (@RapidResponse47) February 12, 2026

---

That is great. Voluntary is good! Now if we can just get past shooting protesters it will be perfect!

---

if protestors stay unarmed and out of the way, they won't get shot.

---

In both cases, the ICE Agents went into the crowds or approached the protestors. Maybe if they hired real candidates, not January 6th pardoned people and trained them properly. You know more than 47 days in honor of Donald being the 47th President, it wouldn't be an issue. 32 in a year, that is high. Many Police forces don't have that many shootings in a year.

ALSO, the States should be cooperating on the Jails and the Police arrests, MN brought some of this on themselves.

Tom Homan can't be everywhere. He seems to be the only one in ICE with a head on his shoulders...

We both agree on the Policy and Mission. Just use some nuance with non-criminals...

---

you are now reordering reality. Each of the shot protestors actively, purposely interfered (while armed with deadly weapons) with Federal LE operations.

---

Yes, and they should have been arrested. No one is arguing that. They were wrong and if still in jail it would be justified. We are talking proportional response, neither of those had to be shot in the street.

Those situations were not handled properly, even Trump and Holman acknowledge that they could use a "softer touch". There is blame to go around here. I am sure the after-action will identify-
1 - The protestors were in the wrong.
2 - ICE Agents did not handle crowd control well, didn't de-escalate and used excessive force.
3 - MN should allow access to jails and let local law enforcement work with the Feds

You have been in after-actions, it is never one side is totally wrong and the other is totally right. They are usually a bunch of cascading events that could have been handled differently in hindsight. And every after-action comes up with improvements to handle differently to avoid someone dying.

I disagree MN not allowing access and I agree with Holman that it is the safest way to do this. I do give credit to Holmon for changing tactics. I give Trump credit for recognizing a "softer touch" is needed. We just seem to focus on the negatives, which is normal.

But, to say ICE was right, protestors wrong is not accurate.

---

If a cop feels that their life is in danger while someone is attempting to run them over with a car.... that is a justified shooting.

If a cop is wrestling with a man and another cop yells "gun" and then the mam reaches into his waistband... i don't expect the cop to wait for the violent man to start shooting at him.

These two people were not innocent victims. They were both violent offenders.

---

No one said they were innocent, just not shot. The issue is proportional response for US Law Enforcement. This isn't a military operation where the ROE is set to eliminate threats. This is law enforcement.

Of the two, I can agree with you on the lady in the car as it seems the most likely to give the Officer the benefit of the doubt. He used wrong techniques and placed himself in the wrong place, but when struck I can see how that can lead to 4 shots.

The other one was just wrong, the gun was licensed and holstered. ICE removed it. IF you are a 2nd Amendment believer I don't see how you can say having it is justifiable cause to shoot. He should have been arrested, not killed.

---

Heat of the moment....

It's easy to say such things now, but in that moment the cop who pulled the trigger didn't know that someone else had removed the gun.
The cop who removed the gun was supposed to yell out that he had secured the weapon. Instead he only yelled out "gun", so the others thought the criminal had the gun in his hands. His hands were not secured. It was logical to hear that call out, see his hands near his waist, and assume he was drawing or holding a gun.

The reality is that no one with half a brain gets involved in a police action and then fights with cops while they are carrying a concealed gun.
Only a suicidal moron does that.... and such a person is a deadly threat to everyone around him. If he doesn't care enough to keep himself out of a deadly situation, then it's very likely that he could be wanting to commit a murder/suicide event.

This was the 2nd time (at least) that he carried a gun while physically engaging with ICE Agents. This guy was suicidal at best. Homicidal is most likely.... potential mass shooter at worst.

People need to stop making him out to be a martyr.... he was a criminal.

---

Well, we used to be innocent into proven guilty. But, even moving beyond that. We will agree he committed a criminal act, he did not deserve a death sentence for what he did. He was also an ICU Nurse at the VA taking care of veterans, if we want to measure value...

ICE made him a martyr. He should be getting out after his month stay in jail for kicking the car.

Heat of the moment is what you train for, so you don't lose it. But, not a lot you can do in 47 days. They pushed those guys in the field and it blew up in their faces, literally. People that should be doing community service after going to court are dead.

---

He had plenty of time to train seeing that he was unemployed.

---

More alternative facts.

---

You're right, the unemployed violent nutjob didn't really have enough time to train properly. 5 month unemployed isn't nearly enough time.

---

Disinformation.

---

Was the killing of Ashli Babbitt a proportional response?