Talarico vs Paxton

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historian
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In reply to 303Bear • 12:18a, 9/28/26
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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Oldbear83
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In reply to 303Bear • 7:03a, 9/28/26
303Bear said:
Oldbear83 said:
Osodecentx said:
Oldbear83 said:
Osodecentx said:
Oldbear83 said:
Osodecentx said:
Oldbear83 said:
None of that changes the fact that when he could have clinched the nomination for simply affirming his vote, Cornyn refused.

A lot of Cornyn's actions are like that: Pretend to be conservative but no follow-through.

That in a nutshell, is what did him in - Republicans caught on at last.


Clinch what nomination?

Try reading the thread, just few posts from me on this one should bring you up to speed.


I quote you : when he could have clinched the nomination for simply affirming his vote, Cornyn refused.

To what nomination do you refer?

The GOP nomination for the Senate race.

Not sure how you forgot that was the subject.


Cornyn authored the SAAct
He didn't oppose the bill, it is his bill

Then why wouldn't he simply publicly commit to seeing it passed? Seems like an easy win.

But he refused.

You keep ducking the point, which is why ?

Sponsoring (and your staff writing a large portion of) a bill isnt " publicly commit to seeing it passed"?

Be honest, he wouldn't agree to circumvent senate procedure and eliminate the filibuster to get the bill passed. An infinitely reasonable position to take. This pissed off the far right and Trump and got him ousted because he could not be relied on to follow orders, regardless of the 23+ years (more if you count his time in state politics and the Texas Supreme Court) of reliable conservative voting (including time as Majority Whip in the Senate).



The plain fact is that this spring and summer, Cornyn abandoned the bill. Almost as if he knew from the start it would not pass, but he could take credit as if it had. Something Cornyn has done before. As I said, Republicans caught on to the act, which is why Cornyn lost the primary. He had a simple, easy way to win but rejected it.

You keep ducking the key question: Why did Cornyn abandon that bill, if it was his effort and work ?
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HuMcK
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 7:15a, 9/28/26
"Why did Cornyn abandon that bill"

Probably because even he understands that making those kinds of sweeping changes to the rules mere months before an election amounts to blatant cheating. You people have failed to demonstrate that there is even an actual problem that needs correcting beyond vague accusations, and somehow you believe that justifies changing the rules in substantial ways this close to voting befofe it could even be lroperly implemented? Nobody is buying that crap, and that's why the bill never got the level of support it needed.

Dont worry, large Texas counties are trimming their number of voting sites (especially in minority areas), and the TX DPS sat on all their new voter registrations for the last year, so even without the SAVE Act y'all still have some dirty tricks to play.
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303Bear
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 7:38a, 9/28/26
Oldbear83 said:
303Bear said:
Oldbear83 said:
Osodecentx said:
Oldbear83 said:
Osodecentx said:
Oldbear83 said:
Osodecentx said:
Oldbear83 said:
None of that changes the fact that when he could have clinched the nomination for simply affirming his vote, Cornyn refused.

A lot of Cornyn's actions are like that: Pretend to be conservative but no follow-through.

That in a nutshell, is what did him in - Republicans caught on at last.


Clinch what nomination?

Try reading the thread, just few posts from me on this one should bring you up to speed.


I quote you : when he could have clinched the nomination for simply affirming his vote, Cornyn refused.

To what nomination do you refer?

The GOP nomination for the Senate race.

Not sure how you forgot that was the subject.


Cornyn authored the SAAct
He didn't oppose the bill, it is his bill

Then why wouldn't he simply publicly commit to seeing it passed? Seems like an easy win.

But he refused.

You keep ducking the point, which is why ?

Sponsoring (and your staff writing a large portion of) a bill isnt " publicly commit to seeing it passed"?

Be honest, he wouldn't agree to circumvent senate procedure and eliminate the filibuster to get the bill passed. An infinitely reasonable position to take. This pissed off the far right and Trump and got him ousted because he could not be relied on to follow orders, regardless of the 23+ years (more if you count his time in state politics and the Texas Supreme Court) of reliable conservative voting (including time as Majority Whip in the Senate).



The plain fact is that this spring and summer, Cornyn abandoned the bill. Almost as if he knew from the start it would not pass, but he could take credit as if it had. Something Cornyn has done before. As I said, Republicans caught on to the act, which is why Cornyn lost the primary. He had a simple, easy way to win but rejected it.

You keep ducking the key question: Why did Cornyn abandon that bill, if it was his effort and work ?

I'm not ducking the question, I am disagreeing with its premise.

Not changing procedure to end debate is not "abandoning" the bill.

Also the save act was barely mentioned in any of campaign ads I saw (to be fair, I didn't see that many and never sought them out). The primary attacks Paxton ran were basically that Cronyn was too much of an establishment centrist who was not loyal enough to Trump or hard enough on border security (a tangential tie to the SAVE act at best).

Revisionist history to point at whether or not the SAVE act passed as the lynch pin that doomed Cornyn imo.
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303Bear
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In reply to historian • 7:48a, 9/28/26
historian said:
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.


There are plenty of legitimate reasons for Texas rebublicans to want Cornyn gone. Again though, pinning it on the Save act is revisionist imo.

Regarding illegal voting, how many non citizens have actually voted in federal elections? How many are actually on the rolls? Is it thousands, is it hundreds of thousands, is it millions?

In a most recent and typically embarrassing example, DHS made sweeping claims of over 16000 illegals registered in Nevada earlier this summer. When sending their actual list to the Nevada Secretary of State for verification, the list had less than 200 people on it. After investigation, Nevada confirmed every single named person is a US citizen.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/sep/24/dhs-nevada-voter-non-citizens-error

I'm sure this is a good use of the DHS agent's time who have been pulled off of human trafficking cases to review voter rolls.
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Sam Lowry
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In reply to historian • 8:40a, 9/28/26
historian said:
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.

Any realistic immigration reform will have to include some kind of amnesty. And Americans do support it. Republicans understood this until pretty recently. At this point they are just a party of anti-immigrant fanatics who can't get anything done.
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boognish_bear
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10:13a, 9/28/26
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historian
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In reply to 303Bear • 10:46a, 9/28/26
I listed multiple reasons, the Save Act was only one. It's not revisionist it's a fact: Cornyn abandoned his leadership on that bill and the voters noticed.

We do not know how many illegals are registered to vote or have voted. All we know is that leftists denied it was happening until evidence proved that it was. The Dem Gov of NJ admitted that 6,600 were registered and a hundreds has voted. No doubt both numbers were higher. And that's one state.

In recent weeks plenty of evidence has emerged of the same thing in multiple states including Minnesota and Michigan. Blue states make it far too easy to register and far too easy to vote, enabling the electoral fraud. Then they try to cover it up every step of the way, oppose any reforms to protect the rights of citizens to have their votes counted (& not diluted by fake counting ballots), and generally oppose any efforts to secure the elections. Examples include the Save Act, photo ID, etc which are supported by an overwhelming majority of the population regardless of party or demographic. They refuse to share the voter lists with the federal agencies working to protect our voting rights because they are doing everything they can to steal elections. That's their standard procedure.

The Dems are in favor of every fraud. We only need to look at all the reports from many states, including some red, of Medicare fraud, homeless fraud, unemployment fraud, etc. It looks like every govt program is awash in fraud costing taxpayers billions. Blue politicians and bureaucrats, with their hands in it, routinely try to protect the fraudsters, refuse to prosecute, and cover up the crimes. "Learn Centers" anyone? How about the Stop Nick Shirley Act in California?

Reports from Leftist propaganda outlets are generally worthless because they are as uninterested as the Leftist politicians. They have repeatedly promoted and encouraged all the lies and hoaxes (Russia collusion, Hunter's laptop, law fare, covid, vax, ICE lies, lies about the police, Biden's mental health, etc). And they cover up Dem crimes regularly. Citing such a source disproved any point you might try to make.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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historian
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In reply to Sam Lowry • 10:53a, 9/28/26
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.

Any realistic immigration reform will have to include some kind of amnesty. And Americans do support it. Republicans understood this until pretty recently. At this point they are just a party of anti-immigrant fanatics who can't get anything done.

Amnesty is a non starter. Every single illegal alien must be deported ASAP. Americans overwhelmingly support mass deportation, not amnesty. It's why Trump was re-elected. Every group of Americans support this, including blacks and Hispanics who are fired of Dem lies and exploitation.

"Anti-immigrant fanatics"??? You should stop believing the silly lies from the Left. "Can't get anything done"??? Trump closed the border. That's more than any president has ever done and all he had to do was make a real effort.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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Mothra
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In reply to historian • 10:57a, 9/28/26
historian said:
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.

Any realistic immigration reform will have to include some kind of amnesty. And Americans do support it. Republicans understood this until pretty recently. At this point they are just a party of anti-immigrant fanatics who can't get anything done.

Amnesty is a non starter. Every single illegal alien must be deported ASAP. Americans overwhelmingly support mass deportation, not amnesty. It's why Trump was re-elected. Every group of Americans support this, including blacks and Hispanics who are fired of Dem lies and exploitation.

"Anti-immigrant fanatics"??? You should stop believing the silly lies from the Left. "Can't get anything done"??? Trump closed the border. That's more than any president has ever done and all he had to do was make a real effort.

Yup. Any realistic immigration reform does NOT include amnesty. We went down this road with Reagan, and it was a total disaster. Anyone that thinks amnesty is a must is not a conservative.

We must learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to 303Bear • 11:08a, 9/28/26
It's not "revisionist" at all. It's actually a good litmus test to show Cornyn's pattern of putting up a front then not following through.

I agree to the point that there was more than one issue where Cornyn did this. But that's the point. It's Cornyn's own fault he burned his base, no one else's.
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Sam Lowry
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In reply to historian • 11:50a, 9/28/26
New Jersey did not allow thousands of illegals to register. Thousands of noncitizens were registered accidentally because of a motor vehicle registration error. No fraud was involved. This is typical of Trump's claims about Covid, the 2020 election, etc. He engages in all kids of outrageous scaremongering, which is later shown to be exaggerated if not completely baseless.
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Sam Lowry
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In reply to historian • 11:59a, 9/28/26
historian said:
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.

Any realistic immigration reform will have to include some kind of amnesty. And Americans do support it. Republicans understood this until pretty recently. At this point they are just a party of anti-immigrant fanatics who can't get anything done.

Amnesty is a non starter. Every single illegal alien must be deported ASAP. Americans overwhelmingly support mass deportation, not amnesty. It's why Trump was re-elected. Every group of Americans support this, including blacks and Hispanics who are fired of Dem lies and exploitation.

"Anti-immigrant fanatics"??? You should stop believing the silly lies from the Left. "Can't get anything done"??? Trump closed the border. That's more than any president has ever done and all he had to do was make a real effort.

Most Americans prefer amnesty to mass deportation. Those with the contrary view are overwhelmingly Republican and white.

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/9RXtZ/4/
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historian
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12:06p, 9/28/26
You can believe what you wish but most Americans want mass deportations, not amnesty. Trump was re-elected in a landslide in 2024 mainly on this issue. In addition, numerous polls by a variety of polling services have demonstrated this fact over and over again. One outlier poll by an unfamiliar site does not change that.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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Sam Lowry
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In reply to historian • 12:12p, 9/28/26
historian said:
You can believe what you wish but most Americans want mass deportations, not amnesty. Trump was re-elected in a landslide in 2024 mainly on this issue. In addition, numerous polls by a variety of polling services have demonstrated this fact over and over again. One outlier poll by an unfamiliar site does not change that.

Gallup is unfamiliar? Okay, that's interesting. Here's another one.

Quote:
Nearly two-thirds of voters (64 percent) say they prefer giving most undocumented immigrants in the United States a pathway to legal status, while 31 percent say they prefer deporting most undocumented immigrants in the United States, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll of registered voters released today.

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historian
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In reply to Sam Lowry • 12:27p, 9/28/26
OK, Gallup is certainly well known. When I clicked in the link I did not see that. However, prominent sites like Gallup are far from perfect and often are wrong. I've seen far more polling results favoring deportation than amnesty.

More importantly, it's more than a popularity contest. The last thing any country needs is to ignore the crimes of millions of individuals. Crime must be punished under the law. This is a fundamental characteristic of the rule of law, a founding principle, and a healthy civilization. Without it a society begins to disintegrate into chaos.

Naturally, the fascists want chaos so they can demagogue and manipulate people into helping them take over. Next comes mass slavery, gulags or concentration camps, persecution, and mass murder. The Dems favor all of this. Some are even saying the quiet parts out loud.

It's totally evil and un-American.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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Sam Lowry
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In reply to historian • 12:47p, 9/28/26
historian said:
OK, Gallup is certainly well known. When I clicked in the link I did not see that. However, prominent sites like Gallup are far from perfect and often are wrong. I've seen far more polling results favoring deportation than amnesty.

More importantly, it's more than a popularity contest. The last thing any country needs is to ignore the crimes of millions of individuals. Crime must be punished under the law. This is a fundamental characteristic of the rule of law, a founding principle, and a healthy civilization. Without it a society begins to disintegrate into chaos.

Naturally, the fascists want chaos so they can demagogue and manipulate people into helping them take over. Next comes mass slavery, gulags or concentration camps, persecution, and mass murder. The Dems favor all of this. Some are even saying the quiet parts out loud.

It's totally evil and un-American.

Our fundamental principle is to do justice, not necessarily to prosecute every crime to the fullest extent of the law. Deporting every illegal immigrant would be unjust as well as unpopular. It would also be one of the most foolish things we could do economically.

It is true that demagogues love the immigration "crisis," though. That's why you shouldn't count on Trump to solve it. It's way too useful. The chaos he creates with ICE crackdowns, etc. is more about power and intimidation than anything else.
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boognish_bear
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1:02p, 9/28/26
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historian
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In reply to Sam Lowry • 2:05p, 9/28/26
Deporting every illegal is the ultimate act of justice. We gladly welcome legal immigrants but they must obey our laws and come here the proper way. Just like with any crime, if you let it slide you will only encourage more of it. That's obvious because it's human nature.

It's also one reason so many Hispanics support the closed border and deportation. They hate the people who cheated and cut pin line, not to mention their violent crimes in the US or taking jobs from Americans, including Hispanics.

The ICE crackdowns are actually quite popular as is Trump on the border.

Economically, deporting the illegals will boost the economy by reducing demand for housing, food, energy, medical services, education, and everything while supplies remain the same. Biden's importation of millions of illegals was a major cause of Bidenflation. ECON 101.

All of your points are the opposite of facts, some quite obvious. You really should get your news from more reliable outlets than CNN, ABC, Facebook, MSNow, etc. They are Leftists with a terrible track record. They have been lying about everything for decades. It would help to learn something about economics.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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historian
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3:01p, 9/28/26
More Talarico lies:

Christian nationalism? Talarico proposes taxpayer-funded socialized medicine "on biblical grounds"

https://notthebee.com/article/christian-nationalism-talarico-proposes-taxpayer-funded-socialized-medicine-on-biblical-grounds
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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boognish_bear
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6:37p, 9/28/26
Puts him at odds with Abbott

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Sam Lowry
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In reply to historian • 6:40p, 9/28/26
historian said:
Deporting every illegal is the ultimate act of justice. We gladly welcome legal immigrants but they must obey our laws and come here the proper way. Just like with any crime, if you let it slide you will only encourage more of it. That's obvious because it's human nature.

It's also one reason so many Hispanics support the closed border and deportation. They hate the people who cheated and cut pin line, not to mention their violent crimes in the US or taking jobs from Americans, including Hispanics.

The ICE crackdowns are actually quite popular as is Trump on the border.

Economically, deporting the illegals will boost the economy by reducing demand for housing, food, energy, medical services, education, and everything while supplies remain the same. Biden's importation of millions of illegals was a major cause of Bidenflation. ECON 101.

All of your points are the opposite of facts, some quite obvious. You really should get your news from more reliable outlets than CNN, ABC, Facebook, MSNow, etc. They are Leftists with a terrible track record. They have been lying about everything for decades. It would help to learn something about economics.

Justice looks at the facts of each case. An illegal immigrant who works and takes care of a family isn't the same as one who goes on a crime spree. Speaking of which, the immigrant crime wave is a myth.

Your economic argument only makes sense if you assume widespread, more or less immediate replacement of deported workers by American citizens who are willing and able to do the same jobs. No one seriously expects that to happen. The family of the construction worker you just deported (and other Americans too) will still need housing, but now there won't be anyone to build it. We've already seen what happens on a smaller scale after last year's local crackdowns. If there is an initial drop in prices, it's soon offset by the shortage of labor. There may be a slight benefit to extremely low-skilled workers, but the overall effect is loss of productivity, failure of businesses that depend on immigrants as labor or customers, and little or no difference in overall employment. On a mass scale, deportation would significantly reduce GDP and add to our budget deficits.
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boognish_bear
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6:52p, 9/28/26
The video offers more explanation

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The_barBEARian
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In reply to Mothra • 9:07p, 9/28/26
Mothra said:
historian said:
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.

Any realistic immigration reform will have to include some kind of amnesty. And Americans do support it. Republicans understood this until pretty recently. At this point they are just a party of anti-immigrant fanatics who can't get anything done.

Amnesty is a non starter. Every single illegal alien must be deported ASAP. Americans overwhelmingly support mass deportation, not amnesty. It's why Trump was re-elected. Every group of Americans support this, including blacks and Hispanics who are fired of Dem lies and exploitation.

"Anti-immigrant fanatics"??? You should stop believing the silly lies from the Left. "Can't get anything done"??? Trump closed the border. That's more than any president has ever done and all he had to do was make a real effort.

Yup. Any realistic immigration reform does NOT include amnesty. We went down this road with Reagan, and it was a total disaster. Anyone that thinks amnesty is a must is not a conservative.

We must learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.


Exactly. The biggest fumble in modern history was giving away amnesty in the 80ties for nothing in return.

They should have used it as leverage to remove birthright citizenship back when we had a country where a Republican could win 49 states.
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historian
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In reply to Sam Lowry • 10:09p, 9/28/26
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Deporting every illegal is the ultimate act of justice. We gladly welcome legal immigrants but they must obey our laws and come here the proper way. Just like with any crime, if you let it slide you will only encourage more of it. That's obvious because it's human nature.

It's also one reason so many Hispanics support the closed border and deportation. They hate the people who cheated and cut pin line, not to mention their violent crimes in the US or taking jobs from Americans, including Hispanics.

The ICE crackdowns are actually quite popular as is Trump on the border.

Economically, deporting the illegals will boost the economy by reducing demand for housing, food, energy, medical services, education, and everything while supplies remain the same. Biden's importation of millions of illegals was a major cause of Bidenflation. ECON 101.

All of your points are the opposite of facts, some quite obvious. You really should get your news from more reliable outlets than CNN, ABC, Facebook, MSNow, etc. They are Leftists with a terrible track record. They have been lying about everything for decades. It would help to learn something about economics.

Justice looks at the facts of each case. An illegal immigrant who works and takes care of a family isn't the same as one who goes on a crime spree. Speaking of which, the immigrant crime wave is a myth.

Your economic argument only makes sense if you assume widespread, more or less immediate replacement of deported workers by American citizens who are willing and able to do the same jobs. No one seriously expects that to happen. The family of the construction worker you just deported (and other Americans too) will still need housing, but now there won't be anyone to build it. We've already seen what happens on a smaller scale after last year's local crackdowns. If there is an initial drop in prices, it's soon offset by the shortage of labor. There may be a slight benefit to extremely low-skilled workers, but the overall effect is loss of productivity, failure of businesses that depend on immigrants as labor or customers, and little or no difference in overall employment. On a mass scale, deportation would significantly reduce GDP and add to our budget deficits.

All illegal aliens are criminals, by definition. Many commit other crimes including rape, murder, fraud, trafficking, pedophilia, etc. The crime wave is very real, although Trump has significantly reduced it. Anyone paying attention knows that the Dems are pro crime while Trump fights crime.

Your myriad economic fallacies don't fly. Nothing in the economy is immediate but it's clear that if there is a demand for jobs a supply will arise if allowed to. Then you repeat the tired Dem and obviously false talking point about jobs Americans won't do. The reality is that Americans are more than willing to do them if foreigners don't undercut the wages. Again, basic economics.

If an illegal alien is deported he will usually take his family with him. If they are also illegal, they will be deported too. Good. Millions of illegals being deported will obviously free up apartments, reduce demand for food and everything else. Pretending otherwise will not change the laws of supply and demand. None of this is complicated. Loss of productivity? Americans historically have been among the most productive workers in the world. We have no reason to believe that won't continue with a free labor market unburdened by millions of illegal aliens.

Illegals are a net loss to the economy, especially with all the govt handouts they get. Deportations will actually reduce budgets with fewer people taking taxpayer money and more Americans working and thus paying taxes. With the crackdown on fraud, budgets will get even more relief.

I don't know where your economic misinformation comes from but whomever it is does not understand economics. They probably are Marxists, who don't understand much of anything about reality.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to The_barBEARian • 10:26p, 9/28/26
The_barBEARian said:
Mothra said:
historian said:
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.

Any realistic immigration reform will have to include some kind of amnesty. And Americans do support it. Republicans understood this until pretty recently. At this point they are just a party of anti-immigrant fanatics who can't get anything done.

Amnesty is a non starter. Every single illegal alien must be deported ASAP. Americans overwhelmingly support mass deportation, not amnesty. It's why Trump was re-elected. Every group of Americans support this, including blacks and Hispanics who are fired of Dem lies and exploitation.

"Anti-immigrant fanatics"??? You should stop believing the silly lies from the Left. "Can't get anything done"??? Trump closed the border. That's more than any president has ever done and all he had to do was make a real effort.

Yup. Any realistic immigration reform does NOT include amnesty. We went down this road with Reagan, and it was a total disaster. Anyone that thinks amnesty is a must is not a conservative.

We must learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.


Exactly. The biggest fumble in modern history was giving away amnesty in the 80ties for nothing in return.
.


Promises from the Left about border security and tougher immigration vetting that were never kept

It's now impossible for any normal conservative to trust any amnesty proposal or bipartisan compromise.

The Left does not intended to keep promises when it comes to mass migration
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In reply to historian • 10:27p, 9/28/26
historian said:
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Deporting every illegal is the ultimate act of justice. We gladly welcome legal immigrants but they must obey our laws and come here the proper way. Just like with any crime, if you let it slide you will only encourage more of it. That's obvious because it's human nature.

It's also one reason so many Hispanics support the closed border and deportation. They hate the people who cheated and cut pin line, not to mention their violent crimes in the US or taking jobs from Americans, including Hispanics.

The ICE crackdowns are actually quite popular as is Trump on the border.

Economically, deporting the illegals will boost the economy by reducing demand for housing, food, energy, medical services, education, and everything while supplies remain the same. Biden's importation of millions of illegals was a major cause of Bidenflation. ECON 101.

All of your points are the opposite of facts, some quite obvious. You really should get your news from more reliable outlets than CNN, ABC, Facebook, MSNow, etc. They are Leftists with a terrible track record. They have been lying about everything for decades. It would help to learn something about economics.

Justice looks at the facts of each case. An illegal immigrant who works and takes care of a family isn't the same as one who goes on a crime spree. Speaking of which, the immigrant crime wave is a myth.

Your economic argument only makes sense if you assume widespread, more or less immediate replacement of deported workers by American citizens who are willing and able to do the same jobs. No one seriously expects that to happen. The family of the construction worker you just deported (and other Americans too) will still need housing, but now there won't be anyone to build it. We've already seen what happens on a smaller scale after last year's local crackdowns. If there is an initial drop in prices, it's soon offset by the shortage of labor. There may be a slight benefit to extremely low-skilled workers, but the overall effect is loss of productivity, failure of businesses that depend on immigrants as labor or customers, and little or no difference in overall employment. On a mass scale, deportation would significantly reduce GDP and add to our budget deficits.

All illegal aliens are criminals, by definition. Many commit other crimes including rape, murder, fraud, trafficking, pedophilia, etc. The crime wave is very real, although Trump has significantly reduced it. Anyone paying attention knows that the Dems are pro crime while Trump fights crime.

Your myriad economic fallacies don't fly. Nothing in the economy is immediate but it's clear that if there is a demand for jobs a supply will arise if allowed to. Then you repeat the tired Dem and obviously false talking point about jobs Americans won't do. The reality is that Americans are more than willing to do them if foreigners don't undercut the wages. Again, basic economics.

If an illegal alien is deported he will usually take his family with him. If they are also illegal, they will be deported too. Good. Millions of illegals being deported will obviously free up apartments, reduce demand for food and everything else. Pretending otherwise will not change the laws of supply and demand. None of this is complicated. Loss of productivity? Americans historically have been among the most productive workers in the world. We have no reason to believe that won't continue with a free labor market unburdened by millions of illegal aliens.

Illegals are a net loss to the economy, especially with all the govt handouts they get. Deportations will actually reduce budgets with fewer people taking taxpayer money and more Americans working and thus paying taxes. With the crackdown on fraud, budgets will get even more relief.

I don't know where your economic misinformation comes from but whomever it is does not understand economics. They probably are Marxists, who don't understand much of anything about reality.

Teachman....Economics is obviously not your strong suit. The US situation is far different. We encouraged illegal immigration to do the jobs Americans won't do. Now we say GTFO? Case in point. I have a housekeeper who is Mexican who has been with me for 27yr when my daughter was born. She helped raise my kids (not nanny) and is part of our family. Don't know her immigration status, and haven't asked. Meanwhile over the 27yrs, she/her family spend lots of $ on products and services. I don't know the solution. America is different than most all countries in the respect that we need immigration of the legal variety. They make it real simple here in Thailand. No unchecked immigration. Foreigners cannot own land. Foreigners, basically cannot be citizens, except vary rare case. Thailand prioritizes work and opportunity to Thais as it should be. All done via Visas. ie Work Visa. There are rules and everyone is expected to follow. Makes simple sense. Wouldn't work in the US, but a first hand on how another country does it.
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10:35p, 9/28/26
Now one person's anecdotal experience is more important than the reality of how economics works in the world. This is ludicrous!

And we should not forget that the people who support importing millions of illegals, giving them amnesty (to help Dems steal elections), and giving them billions of free stuff at taxpayer expense also are advocating for a socialist agenda: more govt control over everything (a certain path to disaster), higher taxes, socialized medicine, and every other stupid idea that has been ruining economies all over the world for 100+ years.

I have yet to a single legitimate argument from anyone on the Left for any of this.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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10:50p, 9/28/26
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In reply to historian • 11:02p, 9/28/26
historian said:
OK, Gallup is certainly well known. When I clicked in the link I did not see that. However, prominent sites like Gallup are far from perfect and often are wrong. I've seen far more polling results favoring deportation than amnesty.

More importantly, it's more than a popularity contest. The last thing any country needs is to ignore the crimes of millions of individuals. Crime must be punished under the law. This is a fundamental characteristic of the rule of law, a founding principle, and a healthy civilization. Without it a society begins to disintegrate into chaos.

Naturally, the fascists want chaos so they can demagogue and manipulate people into helping them take over. Next comes mass slavery, gulags or concentration camps, persecution, and mass murder. The Dems favor all of this. Some are even saying the quiet parts out loud.

It's totally evil and un-American.

once again, the teacher man knows not Amerians prefer. No mass deportation. Get out of your little Maga spiral. Maga is a fraud.
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In reply to historian • 11:03p, 9/28/26
historian said:
Now one person's anecdotal experience is more important than the reality of how economics works in the world. This is ludicrous!

And we should not forget that the people who support importing millions of illegals, giving them amnesty (to help Dems steal elections), and giving them billions of free stuff at taxpayer expense also are advocating for a socialist agenda: more govt control over everything (a certain path to disaster), higher taxes, socialized medicine, and every other stupid idea that has been ruining economies all over the world for 100+ years.

I have yet to a single legitimate argument from anyone on the Left for any of this.

stick to teaching and harvesting the govt cheese. If you can't do it, teach it. Old as time. Stay out of how the world works. You are way Maga myopic . Mass deportation will NEVER happen. Glad to know you are willing to pick strawberries, clean houses, build houses, road construction. Get that resume updated.
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In reply to historian • 11:06p, 9/28/26
historian said:
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Deporting every illegal is the ultimate act of justice. We gladly welcome legal immigrants but they must obey our laws and come here the proper way. Just like with any crime, if you let it slide you will only encourage more of it. That's obvious because it's human nature.

It's also one reason so many Hispanics support the closed border and deportation. They hate the people who cheated and cut pin line, not to mention their violent crimes in the US or taking jobs from Americans, including Hispanics.

The ICE crackdowns are actually quite popular as is Trump on the border.

Economically, deporting the illegals will boost the economy by reducing demand for housing, food, energy, medical services, education, and everything while supplies remain the same. Biden's importation of millions of illegals was a major cause of Bidenflation. ECON 101.

All of your points are the opposite of facts, some quite obvious. You really should get your news from more reliable outlets than CNN, ABC, Facebook, MSNow, etc. They are Leftists with a terrible track record. They have been lying about everything for decades. It would help to learn something about economics.

Justice looks at the facts of each case. An illegal immigrant who works and takes care of a family isn't the same as one who goes on a crime spree. Speaking of which, the immigrant crime wave is a myth.

Your economic argument only makes sense if you assume widespread, more or less immediate replacement of deported workers by American citizens who are willing and able to do the same jobs. No one seriously expects that to happen. The family of the construction worker you just deported (and other Americans too) will still need housing, but now there won't be anyone to build it. We've already seen what happens on a smaller scale after last year's local crackdowns. If there is an initial drop in prices, it's soon offset by the shortage of labor. There may be a slight benefit to extremely low-skilled workers, but the overall effect is loss of productivity, failure of businesses that depend on immigrants as labor or customers, and little or no difference in overall employment. On a mass scale, deportation would significantly reduce GDP and add to our budget deficits.

All illegal aliens are criminals, by definition. Many commit other crimes including rape, murder, fraud, trafficking, pedophilia, etc. The crime wave is very real, although Trump has significantly reduced it. Anyone paying attention knows that the Dems are pro crime while Trump fights crime.

Your myriad economic fallacies don't fly. Nothing in the economy is immediate but it's clear that if there is a demand for jobs a supply will arise if allowed to. Then you repeat the tired Dem and obviously false talking point about jobs Americans won't do. The reality is that Americans are more than willing to do them if foreigners don't undercut the wages. Again, basic economics.

If an illegal alien is deported he will usually take his family with him. If they are also illegal, they will be deported too. Good. Millions of illegals being deported will obviously free up apartments, reduce demand for food and everything else. Pretending otherwise will not change the laws of supply and demand. None of this is complicated. Loss of productivity? Americans historically have been among the most productive workers in the world. We have no reason to believe that won't continue with a free labor market unburdened by millions of illegal aliens.

Illegals are a net loss to the economy, especially with all the govt handouts they get. Deportations will actually reduce budgets with fewer people taking taxpayer money and more Americans working and thus paying taxes. With the crackdown on fraud, budgets will get even more relief.

I don't know where your economic misinformation comes from but whomever it is does not understand economics. They probably are Marxists, who don't understand much of anything about reality.

Most of this is wrong, but the bolded paragraph puts the debate in a nutshell. You'd be hard pressed to find any reputable economist claiming that illegal immigrants are a net economic loss. A net fiscal loss, maybe, but even that is very questionable. See for example this recent study from the Cato Institute (who are not known for being Marxists).

Quote:
Cato scholar David Bier has released new research revealing that immigrants generated a $14.5 trillion fiscal savings for U.S. government budgets from 1994 to 2023.

The white paper, which updates the National Academies of Sciences model with 30 years of comprehensive data, finds that immigrants paid more in taxes than they received in benefits every single year. Without immigrants, U.S. public debt would have reached 205 percent of GDP, nearly double current levels, and a threshold some analysts believe would trigger economic catastrophe.

Key findings include: Even low-skilled immigrants were fiscally positive overall. Noncitizens (including those here illegally) contributed $6.3 trillion in savings. Immigrants cut U.S. deficits by roughly one-third over the three-decade period.

https://www.cato.org/news-releases/new-research-immigrants-created-145t-fiscal-savings

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The_barBEARian
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 11:23p, 9/28/26
Redbrickbear said:
The_barBEARian said:
Mothra said:
historian said:
Sam Lowry said:
historian said:
Election integrity is more important than some procedural tradition like the filibuster. Many find out obsolete and outdated. One could argue that its continuation was never justified. Some have suggested that it will soon disappear anyway, although that is speculation.

Regardless, the senate has failed to do much of anything all year. The Save Act is only the most glaring and important example. I remember a few years ago that Cornyn was touted as being the second most powerful Republican in the senate. Whether true or not, he has not used the considerable influence he has to benefit Texans and America in general. Not did he not do as much to push the Save Act this year, he has publicly stated support for amnesty, which most Texans and Americans oppose, and has been less supportive of the 2A than most Texans. He is a symbol for Texans of the failures of the senate.

Cornyn is a RINO rejected overwhelmingly by primary voters. Since then, he has been petulant and childish, throwing a tantrum for months. He has been proving for years why he needs to go.

Any realistic immigration reform will have to include some kind of amnesty. And Americans do support it. Republicans understood this until pretty recently. At this point they are just a party of anti-immigrant fanatics who can't get anything done.

Amnesty is a non starter. Every single illegal alien must be deported ASAP. Americans overwhelmingly support mass deportation, not amnesty. It's why Trump was re-elected. Every group of Americans support this, including blacks and Hispanics who are fired of Dem lies and exploitation.

"Anti-immigrant fanatics"??? You should stop believing the silly lies from the Left. "Can't get anything done"??? Trump closed the border. That's more than any president has ever done and all he had to do was make a real effort.

Yup. Any realistic immigration reform does NOT include amnesty. We went down this road with Reagan, and it was a total disaster. Anyone that thinks amnesty is a must is not a conservative.

We must learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.


Exactly. The biggest fumble in modern history was giving away amnesty in the 80ties for nothing in return.
.


Promises from the Left about border security and tougher immigration vetting that were never kept

It's now impossible for any normal conservative to trust any amnesty proposal or bipartisan compromise.

The Left does not intended to keep promises when it comes to mass migration


Preaching to the choir brother!

The problem with Republicans is legal immigration. The H1-B programs needs to be reformed and the $100k per year fee seems like a great idea. If these are truly the world's greatest minds, $100k per year for these multi-billion dollar international corporations to pay is chump change.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to J.R. • 11:44p, 9/28/26
J.R. said:
historian said:
OK, Gallup is certainly well known. When I clicked in the link I did not see that. However, prominent sites like Gallup are far from perfect and often are wrong. I've seen far more polling results favoring deportation than amnesty.

More importantly, it's more than a popularity contest. The last thing any country needs is to ignore the crimes of millions of individuals. Crime must be punished under the law. This is a fundamental characteristic of the rule of law, a founding principle, and a healthy civilization. Without it a society begins to disintegrate into chaos.

Naturally, the fascists want chaos so they can demagogue and manipulate people into helping them take over. Next comes mass slavery, gulags or concentration camps, persecution, and mass murder. The Dems favor all of this. Some are even saying the quiet parts out loud.

It's totally evil and un-American.

once again, the teacher man knows not Amerians prefer. No mass deportation. Get out of your little Maga spiral. Maga is a fraud.


I'm not sure the argument you are making

Are you saying the liberal political opposition in the USA will never allow mass deportations? Backed up by the cheap labor loving big business community and academia…

If so…then yes that seems a likely outcome.

Or are you saying the USA just can't actually logistically deport millions of 3rd world migrants?

I mean the USA is a global super power. Recently the little Dominican Republic deported in excess of 600,000+ illegal Haitians. And the DR is far poorer and less technically advanced country than America

If a tiny 11 million person Caribbean nation can deport the equivalent of 5%-6% of its population. We can

[The Dominican Republic deported more than 226,500 Haitians between January and July of 2026, this followed approximately 380,000 deportations conducted in 2025]
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historian
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 12:36p, 9/29/26
If we imported 10-15 million illegals under Pres Autopen, we can deport them. We would be rid of a lot more of them if the fascists were not fighting every step of the way with lies, violence, & fraud. That's what the Left does.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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