Malbec said:

---

I find it amazing that we have been discussing this for two years and nobody has brought up the most obvious indication of how far this system of disappearing incidents went. If Baylor settles with this volleyball player, who has virtually no Title IX case, it will seal the deal for me. I really don't think things have changed at all over 40+ years.

---

The Pious Ones running the show really need to learn to differentiate between the terms "gang rape" and "gangbang". Their inability to do so has cost Baylor dearly so far. If not, it will continue to get worse before it gets better.

She would still have had rights and accommodations due from Baylor even with all the alleged players gone.

Some possible things available:

Leniency letter and single point of contact
Medical Care
Metal Health support.
Allowed to retake classes without penalty
Tutoring support
Reimbursement of moving expenses
Legal Assistance

There really is a long list of possible things due her beyond being protected from harassment and avoiding the players


You are trying too hard.

Not what I am talking about. She declined all of those accommodations when she elected to not report and leave school, but there's more. Baylor couldn't have provided any of those accommodations before she ever informed anyone of an assault. She didn't make that known to staff until she has decided to leave.

Who knew about her incident?

Malbec said:

---

Not what I am talking about. She declined all of those accommodations when she elected to not report and leave school, but there's more. Baylor couldn't have provided any of those accommodations before she ever informed anyone of an assault. She didn't make that known to staff until she has decided to leave.

Who knew about her incident?

---

check me if I'm wrong, but by the time she reported, weren't 3 of the 4 men already out of Baylor, and the 4th on his way out for other infractions?

Thee University said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

All he had to do was be loyal to and understand completely the Baylor Mission Statement. How could he not, after even 1 year, realize and abide by the different rules under which BU operates and cloaks itself in the eyes of the world?

Alright now this sounds like a troll job.

The different rules BU operated and cloaked itself in the eyes of the world.

You mean like ignoring young women who had legitimate complaints about being assaulted. You mean turning them away and then, writing them up for getting drunk and or doing drugs because it was against student code. You mean like sweeping things under the rug, so to the "eyes of the world" Baylor could report things like 4 consecutive years without a single sexual assault.

Yea Baylor had a terrible system for handling sexual assaults, going back decades, if you listen to the voices of the women who were ignored over the years.

Not sure what Briles would get out of that,

---

Yes. That is exactly what I mean. Again, athletes at Baylor (all of them) should be held to a much higher standard than the student body. The student body WANTS to be there. Their parents WANT them to be there. The athletes have choices and when I signed on the dotted line to choose Baylor over UT I knew EXACTLY what I was getting into. I knew that Baylor standards were much higher and much more scrutinized than the state schools.

---

By who?

Good lord, he's still at it? 21 pages of Keyser weaving and navigating on behalf of the BOR. An absurd amount Of time and effort to justify hypocrisy, incompetence, and blatant double standards. He's Going to be getting overtime pay this week.

Dman said:

---

Good lord, he's still at it? 21 pages of Keyser weaving and navigating on behalf of the BOR. An absurd amount Of time and effort to justify hypocrisy, incompetence, and blatant double standards. He's Going to be getting overtime pay this week.

---

That's just on this thread!

Not so sure about that. The point of the whole matter is the school should have known about her regardless of her elections. She may not have even left Baylor had she been made aware of all the options available to her.

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

Malbec said:

---

Not what I am talking about. She declined all of those accommodations when she elected to not report and leave school, but there's more. Baylor couldn't have provided any of those accommodations before she ever informed anyone of an assault. She didn't make that known to staff until she has decided to leave.

Who knew about her incident?

---

check me if I'm wrong, but by the time she reported, weren't 3 of the 4 men already out of Baylor, and the 4th on his way out for other infractions?

---

You are correct as far as I can remember.

REX said:

---

Thee University said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

All he had to do was be loyal to and understand completely the Baylor Mission Statement. How could he not, after even 1 year, realize and abide by the different rules under which BU operates and cloaks itself in the eyes of the world?

Alright now this sounds like a troll job.

The different rules BU operated and cloaked itself in the eyes of the world.

You mean like ignoring young women who had legitimate complaints about being assaulted. You mean turning them away and then, writing them up for getting drunk and or doing drugs because it was against student code. You mean like sweeping things under the rug, so to the "eyes of the world" Baylor could report things like 4 consecutive years without a single sexual assault.

Yea Baylor had a terrible system for handling sexual assaults, going back decades, if you listen to the voices of the women who were ignored over the years.

Not sure what Briles would get out of that,

---

Yes. That is exactly what I mean. Again, athletes at Baylor (all of them) should be held to a much higher standard than the student body. The student body WANTS to be there. Their parents WANT them to be there. The athletes have choices and when I signed on the dotted line to choose Baylor over UT I knew EXACTLY what I was getting into. I knew that Baylor standards were much higher and much more scrutinized than the state schools.

---

By who?

---

whom

Keyser Soze said:

---

Not so sure about that. The point of the whole matter is the school should have known about her regardless of her elections. She may not have even left Baylor had she been made aware of all the options available to her.

---

Malbec is correct. She didn't tell anyone until almost a year later and she did it the day before her parents were picking her up to go back home a long way from Baylor. Barnes pleaded with her to report to police, JA, counselors, anyone and she completely shut it down. Mother came next day and said they did not want her to report. The exact words were, "we don't want her to be known as a snitch". Not sure what is up with that, but the family did not want to report and went back out of state. The reason PH reported highly on Barnes' response is because he tried everything he could. But the family said no. (Doesn't matter what the victems law suit says this is how it happened .)

After this Barnes asked Ian what could possibly be done and he repeated, at this point if she doesn't report it there is nothing that can be done. No report can be made without her. Which was a lie.

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

Keyser Soze said:

---

Not so sure about that. The point of the whole matter is the school should have known about her regardless of her elections. She may not have even left Baylor had she been made aware of all the options available to her.

---

What? How is it possible for the school to know before she tells anybody at the school?

Turk 182.

Malbec said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Not so sure about that. The point of the whole matter is the school should have known about her regardless of her elections. She may not have even left Baylor had she been made aware of all the options available to her.

---

What? How is it possible for the school to know before she tells anybody at the school?

Turk 182.

---

I am not certain there would be zero obligation under T9 on the part of Baylor. I understand what you are saying "players gone, girl gone zero possible T9" . I don't question your superior knowledge of the law to me, but this is a very specific point of a very specific law - don't think it is that simple.

Many such victims suffer PTSD and grades suffer. Under T9 she could repeat classes at no cost. Even if a students leaves Baylor, don't you think it would the right thing to do to tell them this if they choose to return. Also there is the question about accommodations at the next University - counseling, tutoring etc. Do you know if that is even play or not? I just don't think it is that simple.

Also weeks prior, she met with Briles (rape not discussed) and told him of harassment and a burglary of her apartment by two of his players. Nothing was done here either. This is also something that should have been reported and would have allowed for help under T9.

There is also some conflicting timeline information. The meeting with Barnes was April 2013. The mission trip where she was told the eight guys number occurred in May of 2013. It was said that was the last straw and she withdrew from Baylor after that trip.

GG1234 said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Not so sure about that. The point of the whole matter is the school should have known about her regardless of her elections. She may not have even left Baylor had she been made aware of all the options available to her.

---

Malbec is correct. She didn't tell anyone until almost a year later and she did it the day before her parents were picking her up to go back home a long way from Baylor. Barnes pleaded with her to report to police, JA, counselors, anyone and she completely shut it down. Mother came next day and said they did not want her to report. The exact words were, "we don't want her to be known as a snitch". Not sure what is up with that, but the family did not want to report and went back out of state. The reason PH reported highly on Barnes' response is because he tried everything he could. But the family said no. (Doesn't matter what the victems law suit says this is how it happened .)

After this Barnes asked Ian what could possibly be done and he repeated, at this point if she doesn't report it there is nothing that can be done. No report can be made without her. Which was a lie.

---

GG Not questioning the events as you described. - I am raising a question about Baylor obligations post event.

Why would Baylor pay money to an alleged victim who refused over and over to go to the police after being urged to do so by Briles and others, and then blame Baylor long after the incident?

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

It is my opinion that Thee University, Coach Grant Teaff, and a small handful of others would like Baylor Football 2008 - 2015 purged from the history books. They do not want their legacies diminished by the success of the Briles era.

Loaded4Bear said:

---

Malbec said:

---

I find it amazing that we have been discussing this for two years and nobody has brought up the most obvious indication of how far this system of disappearing incidents went. If Baylor settles with this volleyball player, who has virtually no Title IX case, it will seal the deal for me. I really don't think things have changed at all over 40+ years.

---

The Pious Ones running the show really need to learn to differentiate between the terms "gang rape" and "gangbang". Their inability to do so has cost Baylor dearly so far. If not, it will continue to get worse before it gets better.

---

^
This

REX said:

---

Thee University said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

All he had to do was be loyal to and understand completely the Baylor Mission Statement. How could he not, after even 1 year, realize and abide by the different rules under which BU operates and cloaks itself in the eyes of the world?

Alright now this sounds like a troll job.

The different rules BU operated and cloaked itself in the eyes of the world.

You mean like ignoring young women who had legitimate complaints about being assaulted. You mean turning them away and then, writing them up for getting drunk and or doing drugs because it was against student code. You mean like sweeping things under the rug, so to the "eyes of the world" Baylor could report things like 4 consecutive years without a single sexual assault.

Yea Baylor had a terrible system for handling sexual assaults, going back decades, if you listen to the voices of the women who were ignored over the years.

Not sure what Briles would get out of that,

---

Yes. That is exactly what I mean. Again, athletes at Baylor (all of them) should be held to a much higher standard than the student body. The student body WANTS to be there. Their parents WANT them to be there. The athletes have choices and when I signed on the dotted line to choose Baylor over UT I knew EXACTLY what I was getting into. I knew that Baylor standards were much higher and much more scrutinized than the state schools.

---

By who?

---

Well........let's start with Grant Teaff.

Loaded4Bear said:

---

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

It is my opinion that Thee University, Coach Grant Teaff, and a small handful of others would like Baylor Football 2008 - 2015 purged from the history books. They do not want their legacies diminished by the Briles era.

---

I think that's absurd.
Thee just hates offense. A little part of him dies every time a slot receiver leaves a linebacker in the dust or a DE bites on an option play.

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

Its real simple.

I hold him responsible, more than anyone associated with Baylor, for allowing our current fiasco to bring us to this point. He could have prevented it. He could have stopped it. He could have lessened the impact.

He chose to remain unattached and seemingly aloof.

When someone brings Baylor Football down to the depths it has been brought to, a program I helped build, I tend to distance myself from them. I have skin in the game that probably 95% of poster's on this board can not identify with. I was allowed to enter the Baylor Football program for 4 years. When I left Baylor the football program was in much better shape than when I got there. I was proud of this FACT.

Sure, winning was fun but I'd rather Baylor be an 8-4 or 10-2 without the discipline problems and nationwide black eyes. We did it before. We can do it again.

Art let me down.

Thee University said:

---

REX said:

---

Thee University said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

All he had to do was be loyal to and understand completely the Baylor Mission Statement. How could he not, after even 1 year, realize and abide by the different rules under which BU operates and cloaks itself in the eyes of the world?

Alright now this sounds like a troll job.

The different rules BU operated and cloaked itself in the eyes of the world.

You mean like ignoring young women who had legitimate complaints about being assaulted. You mean turning them away and then, writing them up for getting drunk and or doing drugs because it was against student code. You mean like sweeping things under the rug, so to the "eyes of the world" Baylor could report things like 4 consecutive years without a single sexual assault.

Yea Baylor had a terrible system for handling sexual assaults, going back decades, if you listen to the voices of the women who were ignored over the years.

Not sure what Briles would get out of that,

---

Yes. That is exactly what I mean. Again, athletes at Baylor (all of them) should be held to a much higher standard than the student body. The student body WANTS to be there. Their parents WANT them to be there. The athletes have choices and when I signed on the dotted line to choose Baylor over UT I knew EXACTLY what I was getting into. I knew that Baylor standards were much higher and much more scrutinized than the state schools.

---

By who?

---

Well........let's start with Grant Teaff.

---

Coach Teafff spent time scrutinizing the standards of state schools?

Loaded4Bear said:

---

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

It is my opinion that Thee University, Coach Grant Teaff, and a small handful of others would like Baylor Football 2008 - 2015 purged from the history books. They do not want their legacies diminished by the success of the Briles era.

---

Our legacies were equaled or even surpassed by those great teams of 1985 & 1986. I've gone on record numerous times admitting such. The 1980 team is still, after nearly 40 long years, the only Baylor conference championship team to go undefeated in conference play.

The only way I would ever want anything purged from the history books is if the NCAA finds infractions occurred. I was proud of our back-to-back 11-2 seasons.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Loaded4Bear said:

---

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

It is my opinion that Thee University, Coach Grant Teaff, and a small handful of others would like Baylor Football 2008 - 2015 purged from the history books. They do not want their legacies diminished by the Briles era.

---

I think that's absurd.
Thee just hates offense. A little part of him dies every time a slot receiver leaves a linebacker in the dust or a DE bites on an option play.

---

Funny guy.

Thee University said:

---

Loaded4Bear said:

---

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

It is my opinion that Thee University, Coach Grant Teaff, and a small handful of others would like Baylor Football 2008 - 2015 purged from the history books. They do not want their legacies diminished by the success of the Briles era.

---

The only way I would ever want anything purged from the history books is if the NCAA finds infractions occurred. I was proud of our back-to-back 11-2 seasons.

---

I stand corrected. In all my time lurking here, this is the first time I have ever heard you say that.

Thee University said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Loaded4Bear said:

---

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

It is my opinion that Thee University, Coach Grant Teaff, and a small handful of others would like Baylor Football 2008 - 2015 purged from the history books. They do not want their legacies diminished by the Briles era.

---

I think that's absurd.
Thee just hates offense. A little part of him dies every time a slot receiver leaves a linebacker in the dust or a DE bites on an option play.

---

Funny guy.

---

I'll be here all week.

Loaded4Bear said:

---

TheAgentGrant said:

---

So I've never asked you this personally, but why do you not like CAB? Y'all met on a recruiting trip back in the day right? Just curious and it is nothing more than a question about your personal feelings for him. Would you care to share?

---

It is my opinion that Thee University, Coach Grant Teaff, and a small handful of others would like Baylor Football 2008 - 2015 purged from the history books. They do not want their legacies diminished by the success of the Briles era.

---

I think you are wrong.

Yep

Remember when the rumor of the day was "Briles was fired because the regents were jealous of his success"

Keyser Soze said:

---

Yep

Remember when the rumor of the day was "Briles was fired because the regents were jealous of his success"

---

Why would a non-coach be jealous of a coaches success?

Never heard that one.

Forest Bueller said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Yep

Remember when the rumor of the day was "Briles was fired because the regents were jealous of his success"

---

Why would a non-coach be jealous of a coaches success?

Never heard that one.

---

The number of bat **** crazy theories is long and illustrious - for some reason I just remember that one.

I get it, and being a part that myself which was obviously not as significant as yours I do see how you feel the way you do. I never heard anything from anyone's mouth when I say this it was just more of a feeling. Playing for CGT and CAB are on completely different ends of the spectrum. My dad played basketball at BU then transferred to McMurry when he was there. I knew from the time I was getting recruited myself, that BU is where I wanted to go if they recruited me at all. Grant is more of an iconic man, that you feel his presence as soon as he steps in the room. Art is more like one of the guys, the players. Cracking jokes. He's more Brett Favre then Tom Landry. I know that Title IX was started in 1972, and just really being implemented around my senior of high school and freshman year at Baylor in 1986. Please understand Thee I'm being totally respectful of your fellings on this matter. What this is saying is essentially Baylor had 46 years to implement this until the start of the CAB regime. Let's make it fair, so let's say 1986. So for 30 years we never took the time to address this? For 32 years? I agree our school reputation matters, but so does putting policies in place so that these types of issues don't happen. I'm addressing coaches or the chain of command, which obviously would have been defined once this was in place. If I'm interviewing a coach, who's going to be the highest paid coach in football history, or even giving him a raise. Doesn't all of this policy seem that the school has it in place? Makes the coach and his staff attend accredited seminars. Then makes them meet with JA on a quarterly basis as to what and what does need to happen. If we are so worried about our brand, and why aren't doing this from the get go? From the first interview on. Which is now obvious that it was not implemented at all. I do not see anything that makes me get the impression that it was. Should coaches be completely honest? Yes. Not everyone is CGT, and I'm not making excuses. If that's the bar, then fine. Being moral in the world of CFB is an extremely GREY area.

My issue with all this garbage is that Thee, Keyser, and so many others think that this culture was something new (it wasn't), that it was a departure from what is found on college campuses across the country (it's not), and that Briles' attitude/actions/inaction was the catalyst for this culture (he wasn't fixing what was a decades-long issue but to say he caused it is to ignore the heart of the issue).

Sexual assault and the reporting of sexual assault has been trending up for years. Baylor had propagated a don't ask, don't tell mentality for a long time (regarding ALL things of questionable morality). The inherent conflict between those two is what led to the debacle we've all gone through. I was very familiar with this disconnect during both Morris' and Briles' tenures and I promise you Briles' ran a much cleaner operation than GuyMo ever did.

When you grasp that reality and revisit the entire scenario our reaction makes little sense. I firmly believe that had the BoR been truly interested in positive change, CAB was the person best positioned to bring it to fruition. But, that would have required acknowledging that the system itself was broken.

GG1234 said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Not so sure about that. The point of the whole matter is the school should have known about her regardless of her elections. She may not have even left Baylor had she been made aware of all the options available to her.

---

Malbec is correct. She didn't tell anyone until almost a year later and she did it the day before her parents were picking her up to go back home a long way from Baylor. Barnes pleaded with her to report to police, JA, counselors, anyone and she completely shut it down. Mother came next day and said they did not want her to report. The exact words were, "we don't want her to be known as a snitch". Not sure what is up with that, but the family did not want to report and went back out of state. The reason PH reported highly on Barnes' response is because he tried everything he could. But the family said no. (Doesn't matter what the victems law suit says this is how it happened .)

After this Barnes asked Ian what could possibly be done and he repeated, at this point if she doesn't report it there is nothing that can be done. No report can be made without her. Which was a lie.

---

GG,

The Baylor Employment Manual is archived on the Wayback Machine. It is captured fully over a decade. No mention of Title 9 specifics until well after they started a specific department. Hopefully lawsuit discovery produces something at a trial to fill us in someday. The Garland deposition was a dryhole.

Judicial Affairs was not an efficient parralel in hindsight, but it was there to report issues. If you were aware of something unethical, illegal, or improper then you reported it to your direct superior. If you were happy with the result then you were done. If dissatisfied, there was a list of topics and who to report above your supervisor. For a sexual assault that complaint of inaction was reportedly direct to Bethany McCraw in JA. Barnes would have had whistle-blower protection.

I think that we both know that jumping over an AD and reporting a Sexual Assault directly to McCraw would have had the AD and RR out for Barnes. He would have had a great basis for a retaliation lawsuit but a dead career at Baylor. Barnes had an additional option per the employment manual. No way to spin that. Very few here including me would have taken that option.

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

NoBSU said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

there are people pretending to be holier than thou on this thread that violated multiple sections of that video and are now acting all high an mighty just because they hate Briles

---

There are posters showing up here to comment who can't grasp the idea that a person can be both critical of the board and Art Briles.

But hey don't let a bit it of reason cloud your need to vent on the internet.

---

get over your hurt feelings when you got passed up for the coaches kid.... you are a grown man for Christs sake

---

xiled was a poster on Baylorfans long before Briles came to Baylor. Are you insinuating he is on the Tulsa staff?

You and a few others (or one dude with three accounts hitting th te star button) "seem to think that you are onto something. You aren't.

---

everything you said in your post is wrong.... I've known x for a long time

---

It has nothing to do with his kids other than that no where else would have had such a weakling athletic director who would have allowed those hires without more experience and proven results at those salaries.
Baylor wasn't handing out entry level D1 positions at offensive coordinator or running backs coach. The school had it set up salary wise to hire the top at OC and DC.

Ian was a weak football athletic director. Most of our issues could have been solved but he is the "Ribbon clerk" for a reason.

NoBSU said:

---

GG1234 said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Not so sure about that. The point of the whole matter is the school should have known about her regardless of her elections. She may not have even left Baylor had she been made aware of all the options available to her.

---

Malbec is correct. She didn't tell anyone until almost a year later and she did it the day before her parents were picking her up to go back home a long way from Baylor. Barnes pleaded with her to report to police, JA, counselors, anyone and she completely shut it down. Mother came next day and said they did not want her to report. The exact words were, "we don't want her to be known as a snitch". Not sure what is up with that, but the family did not want to report and went back out of state. The reason PH reported highly on Barnes' response is because he tried everything he could. But the family said no. (Doesn't matter what the victems law suit says this is how it happened .)

After this Barnes asked Ian what could possibly be done and he repeated, at this point if she doesn't report it there is nothing that can be done. No report can be made without her. Which was a lie.

---

GG,

The Baylor Employment Manual is archived on the Wayback Machine. It is captured fully over a decade. No mention of Title 9 specifics until well after they started a specific department. Hopefully lawsuit discovery produces something at a trial to fill us in someday. The Garland deposition was a dryhole.

Judicial Affairs was not an efficient parralel in hindsight, but it was there to report issues. If you were aware of something unethical, illegal, or improper then you reported it to your direct superior. If you were happy with the result then you were done. If dissatisfied, there was a list of topics and who to report above your supervisor. For a sexual assault that complaint of inaction was reportedly direct to Bethany McCraw in JA. Barnes would have had whistle-blower protection.

I think that we both know that jumping over an AD and reporting a Sexual Assault directly to McCraw would have had the AD and RR out for Barnes. He would have had a great basis for a retaliation lawsuit but a dead career at Baylor. Barnes had an additional option per the employment manual. No way to spin that. Very few here including me would have taken that option.

---

Numerous very good people knew of VB player story at some point in that time period. None went to JA to make their own report without her permission. Were they all bad people? Or was training inadequate? That's an easy question to answer if you don't have a strong agenda.

The fact that this is the BOR's bell cow against Briles speaks volumes.