CSIBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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YoakDaddy said:

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Happy to be part of the 40% that exercises my 2nd amendment right!

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Cool. Parents of dead children are happy for you

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There is tremendous irony when you try to be an advocate for dead kids.

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So true.

El Oso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

Let's assume there is a gun in my home. Let's further assume that it is loaded. Let's further assume that it is kept in a safe to which only my wife and I know the code and only my wife and I have a key should the punch pad not work. Let's further assume that my wife and I lve the children and have no intention of shooting them with said gun.

Exactly how are any children in the home in danger?

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. Good for you. There is no danger except you are human.

Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

New scenario. Not a hypothetical. This actually happened.

Yesterday, I had to call the police on a trespasser. It took the police 30 minutes to respond and when they finally arrived, the trespasser was still trespassing.

Provided the trespasser had escalated the situation, what should my family and I have done in that 20 minutes it took the police to come help if I didn't have a gun in the house?

El Oso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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El Oso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

Let's assume there is a gun in my home. Let's further assume that it is loaded. Let's further assume that it is kept in a safe to which only my wife and I know the code and only my wife and I have a key should the punch pad not work. Let's further assume that my wife and I lve the children and have no intention of shooting them with said gun.

Exactly how are any children in the home in danger?

---

. Good for you. There is no danger except you are human.

---

So by admitting there is no danger--except for the fact that we are all human--you just debunked your own quote.stupid spin. *************I said "Good for you." That does not carry over to the Anerican public ***************

No matter what the situation--you can never remove the human element.

---

. You are right one can never remove the human element and they make mistakes.

Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

That has already been explained to you. The whole thing is. Guns in the home do not put people at higher risks or make the home unsafe.

cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

That has already been explained to you. The whole thing is. Guns in the home do not put people at higher risks or make the home unsafe.

---

. Which his the lie?
You're deflecting.
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
I don't like being called a liar.

El Oso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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El Oso said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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El Oso said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

Let's assume there is a gun in my home. Let's further assume that it is loaded. Let's further assume that it is kept in a safe to which only my wife and I know the code and only my wife and I have a key should the punch pad not work. Let's further assume that my wife and I lve the children and have no intention of shooting them with said gun.

Exactly how are any children in the home in danger?

---

. Good for you. There is no danger except you are human.

---

So by admitting there is no danger--except for the fact that we are all human--you just debunked your own quote.stupid spin. I said "Good for you." That does not carry to the Anerican public -

No matter what the situation--you can never remove the human element.

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. You are right one can never remove the human element and they make mistakes.

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Exactly. The person makes the mistake. The gun does nothing without the person.

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Sophistry

So? The gun is dangerous in the hands of a person.

El Oso said:

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You just admitted the lie. On this very page.

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What lie did I admit?

I would say I need more information.

I know how to handle a gun. I'm not putting my finger on the trigger until it is time to pull it. I'm also not going to point it at you. Your safe.

Now, if you are an imminent threat to me, the situation has changed. I may find it necessary to point the gun at you. You're still not in danger, but you are definitely not in a safe situation any more.

At this point, I may actually put my finger on the trigger. I wouldn't say you are in a safe situation. This is almost as dangerous as it can get, but until I actually pull that trigger, nothing is going to happen to you.

Pulling the trigger is the point of no return.

It's impossible to give you the answer you want.

Lets say you have my kid in a headlock and there's a knife in your hand. Maybe I trust my skills and drop your ass. Maybe I realize my entire target area and look for another way.

The problem in talking to you is you see the issue of guns in absolutes. There are tons of variables in play that keep the issue from being absolute.

The best answer I can give you is it depends on who is holding the gun.

Yes, bad people get their hands on guns. But 97.3% of gun owners are responsible.

I'd like the number to be 100% but we are human. We are dangerous. Inanimate objects are not. They may be designed to do dangerous things but they themselves are not dangerous.

Waco1947 said:

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El Oso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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El Oso said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

Let's assume there is a gun in my home. Let's further assume that it is loaded. Let's further assume that it is kept in a safe to which only my wife and I know the code and only my wife and I have a key should the punch pad not work. Let's further assume that my wife and I lve the children and have no intention of shooting them with said gun.

Exactly how are any children in the home in danger?

---

. Good for you. There is no danger except you are human.

---

So by admitting there is no danger--except for the fact that we are all human--you just debunked your own quote.stupid spin. *************I said "Good for you." That does not carry over to the Anerican public ***************

No matter what the situation--you can never remove the human element.

---

. You are right one can never remove the human element and they make mistakes.

---

Right here. The last 3 words. The human did it not the gun.

Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

That has already been explained to you. The whole thing is. Guns in the home do not put people at higher risks or make the home unsafe.

---

. Which his the lie?
You're deflecting.
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
I don't like being called a liar.

---

Then stop lying.

It has been explained. You just don't care to read the explanations because you like the talking point.

Every single line in your post is a lie.

A gun is not an endangerment to friends and family.

Safety is not compromised.

Stop lying and I will stop calling you a liar.

Don't put the blame on me for wrong answers. I don't have a gun in my home.. you do. It's presence makes your home dangerous.
It's impossible to shoot someone in my home with one of my guns because I don't own one. I like guns. They are fun to shoot. . But if I have gun then the possibility goes up 1000%.

contrario said:

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Statistics show that one person is killed every 2 hours and 20 minutes, and one person is injured every 1 minute and 59 seconds in automobile accidents in Texas. If you have a car, you are putting yours and your family's life in danger.

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cms186 said:

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contrario said:

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Statistics show that one person is killed every 2 hours and 20 minutes, and one person is injured every 1 minute and 59 seconds in automobile accidents in Texas. If you have a car, you are putting yours and your family's life in danger.

---

---

I disagree with Obama here. He states that he and others don't want to take away guns which is good.
But I think eventually, given power, it would escalate to that. Just like what happened in your country.

It starts out with banning the sale of one thing, then another, and another until over the course of 20 years or so...we find ourselves banning all guns. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Also, any regulations he wants to impose would actually not solve anything.

Doc Holliday said:

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cms186 said:

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contrario said:

---

Statistics show that one person is killed every 2 hours and 20 minutes, and one person is injured every 1 minute and 59 seconds in automobile accidents in Texas. If you have a car, you are putting yours and your family's life in danger.

---

---

I disagree with Obama here. He states that he and others don't want to take away guns which is good.
But I think eventually, given power, it would escalate to that. Just like what happened in your country.

It starts out with banning the sale of one thing, then another, and another until over the course of 20 years or so...we find ourselves banning all guns. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Also, any regulations he wants to impose would actually not solve anything.

---

I disagree, Gun Culture is too firmly entrenched in American Culture to ever have the kind of Gun Laws that exist in countries like Britain.

You don't think banning People who are ISIL sympathisers from buying Guns would solve anything? or having the CDC be able to look into Gun Violence to look for possible solutions in the same way they did Auto Fatalities wouldn't do anything?

I disagree. I know Obama might not be a Republicans favourite person, but i think he speaks a lot of sense in that video.

El Oso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

Let's assume there is a gun in my home. Let's further assume that it is loaded. Let's further assume that it is kept in a safe to which only my wife and I know the code and only my wife and I have a key should the punch pad not work. Let's further assume that my wife and I lve the children and have no intention of shooting them with said gun.

Exactly how are any children in the home in danger?

---

Which home has a higher chance of accidental firearm shooting, the home you describe, or a home with no firearms in it? It may be an incredibly low percentage, but there is still a chance the safe may be left opened on accident, or the key left in a place the child can get it, or forgetting to put the gun back in the safe, or many other low-probability events that put the chance of accidental firearm shooting higher than if there is no gun in the home. I concede the chances of these events is very low if the gun owner takes precautions, but we are all human and we all make mistakes.

Again, I am a 2nd amendment proponent and I have a gun in my home that I keep in a safe. But I also recognize that even if try to take every precaution necessary, the risk of a tragic event involving my gun to myself or a loved one is higher than if I didn't have a gun, even if that chance is extremely low. To me, the security of having the gun is worth that risk, especially where I live, but to ignore that additional risk is just ignorant of the facts.

Keyser Soze said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Amnd your comment does nothing to refute my assertion (Frum) Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

---

reply outside the quotes


If there were no guns there would be no gun deaths - that is an undeniable fact. So what? It is not part of the real world.

To bring a gun into your own home is a choice protected by our Constitution. We all assume risk in countless things in everyday life.

---

Correct

Waco1947 said:

---

Don't put the blame on me for wrong answers. I don't have a gun in my home.. you do. It's presence makes your home dangerous.
It's impossible to shoot someone in my home with one of my guns because I don't own one. I like guns. They are fun to shoot. . But if I have gun then the possibility goes up 1000%.

---

LOL. You get called out on being a liar so you just change the direction.

My home is not more dangerous because of the guns I own. It is safer.

Now stop lying.

bearassnekkid said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

You seem to really love this quote for some reason. But I'm not sure what you think it proves.

Take the exact sentence, and replace the word "Gun" with "Steak knife." Or "Hair Dryer." Or "Electricity."

Obviously the "safety" of those things requires an acknowledgment that the improper use of them poses a risk of potential harm. So what?

---

Yes he does love it. That is why he uses it on every gun thread. Even though numerous posters have shown that it is false, has no facts, no evidence to support it, etc.

He has been shown this multiple times but he continues to lie and use this quote and then cry when he is called a liar.

But I guess that is a little better then when he went around apologizing for every post he made for about a week.

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

contrario said:

---

Statistics show that one person is killed every 2 hours and 20 minutes, and one person is injured every 1 minute and 59 seconds in automobile accidents in Texas. If you have a car, you are putting yours and your family's life in danger.

---

---

I disagree with Obama here. He states that he and others don't want to take away guns which is good.
But I think eventually, given power, it would escalate to that. Just like what happened in your country.

It starts out with banning the sale of one thing, then another, and another until over the course of 20 years or so...we find ourselves banning all guns. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Also, any regulations he wants to impose would actually not solve anything.

---

I disagree, Gun Culture is too firmly entrenched in American Culture to ever have the kind of Gun Laws that exist in countries like Britain.

You don't think banning People who are ISIL sympathisers from buying Guns would solve anything? or having the CDC be able to look into Gun Violence to look for possible solutions in the same way they did Auto Fatalities wouldn't do anything?

I disagree. I know Obama might not be a Republicans favourite person, but i think he speaks a lot of sense in that video.

---

ISIS sympathizers can't even be kept off planes.... Besides Trump has turned the JV into a pee wee team and non factor.

contrario said:

---

El Oso said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

Let's assume there is a gun in my home. Let's further assume that it is loaded. Let's further assume that it is kept in a safe to which only my wife and I know the code and only my wife and I have a key should the punch pad not work. Let's further assume that my wife and I lve the children and have no intention of shooting them with said gun.

Exactly how are any children in the home in danger?

---

Which home has a higher chance of accidental firearm shooting, the home you describe, or a home with no firearms in it? It may be an incredibly low percentage, but there is still a chance the safe may be left opened on accident, or the key left in a place the child can get it, or forgetting to put the gun back in the safe, or many other low-probability events that put the chance of accidental firearm shooting higher than if there is no gun in the home. I concede the chances of these events is very low if the gun owner takes precautions, but we are all human and we all make mistakes.

Again, I am a 2nd amendment proponent and I have a gun in my home that I keep in a safe. But I also recognize that even if try to take every precaution necessary, the risk of a tragic event involving my gun to myself or a loved one is higher than if I didn't have a gun, even if that chance is extremely low. To me, the security of having the gun is worth that risk, especially where I live, but to ignore that additional risk is just ignorant of the facts.

---

Look up what that "risk" is though. It is so minimal that it is not a real factor.

The risk of falling down the stairs in a house (or just falling in general) is much higher than an accidental shooting.

The chance of an accidental shooting in my house are 0 even with guns.

cowboycwr said:

---

contrario said:

---

El Oso said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

Let's assume there is a gun in my home. Let's further assume that it is loaded. Let's further assume that it is kept in a safe to which only my wife and I know the code and only my wife and I have a key should the punch pad not work. Let's further assume that my wife and I lve the children and have no intention of shooting them with said gun.

Exactly how are any children in the home in danger?

---

Which home has a higher chance of accidental firearm shooting, the home you describe, or a home with no firearms in it? It may be an incredibly low percentage, but there is still a chance the safe may be left opened on accident, or the key left in a place the child can get it, or forgetting to put the gun back in the safe, or many other low-probability events that put the chance of accidental firearm shooting higher than if there is no gun in the home. I concede the chances of these events is very low if the gun owner takes precautions, but we are all human and we all make mistakes.

Again, I am a 2nd amendment proponent and I have a gun in my home that I keep in a safe. But I also recognize that even if try to take every precaution necessary, the risk of a tragic event involving my gun to myself or a loved one is higher than if I didn't have a gun, even if that chance is extremely low. To me, the security of having the gun is worth that risk, especially where I live, but to ignore that additional risk is just ignorant of the facts.

---

Look up what that "risk" is though. It is so minimal that it is not a real factor.

The risk of falling down the stairs in a house (or just falling in general) is much higher than an accidental shooting.

The chance of an accidental shooting in my house are 0 even with guns.

---

I conceded it was a low chance. By any chance is greater than 0. If there was no chance Of it happening, we wouldn't have any accidental shootings. My point was you made it seem as though the chance of it happening is 0, when that is just a willful ignorance to the facts. If a gun is in your home, it is greater than 0%. It may be 0.0001%, it may be 0.5%, it may be 1%. All of which are very Lowe numbers, but it is more than 0.

contrario said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

contrario said:

---

El Oso said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

609 deaths or wounded.
Gun safety begins with spreading the truthful information: people who bring guns into their homes are endangering themselves and their loved ones. David Frum

---

Here you go again. Spreading lies.

You have been told numerous times by several posters that this quote is a lie, not truthful, and had no evidence to support it.

---

. What part is a lie?
Safety is compromised
Guns in the home
Endangerment to friends and family
Which is the lie? I'm all ears

---

Let's assume there is a gun in my home. Let's further assume that it is loaded. Let's further assume that it is kept in a safe to which only my wife and I know the code and only my wife and I have a key should the punch pad not work. Let's further assume that my wife and I lve the children and have no intention of shooting them with said gun.

Exactly how are any children in the home in danger?

---

Which home has a higher chance of accidental firearm shooting, the home you describe, or a home with no firearms in it? It may be an incredibly low percentage, but there is still a chance the safe may be left opened on accident, or the key left in a place the child can get it, or forgetting to put the gun back in the safe, or many other low-probability events that put the chance of accidental firearm shooting higher than if there is no gun in the home. I concede the chances of these events is very low if the gun owner takes precautions, but we are all human and we all make mistakes.

Again, I am a 2nd amendment proponent and I have a gun in my home that I keep in a safe. But I also recognize that even if try to take every precaution necessary, the risk of a tragic event involving my gun to myself or a loved one is higher than if I didn't have a gun, even if that chance is extremely low. To me, the security of having the gun is worth that risk, especially where I live, but to ignore that additional risk is just ignorant of the facts.

---

Look up what that "risk" is though. It is so minimal that it is not a real factor.

The risk of falling down the stairs in a house (or just falling in general) is much higher than an accidental shooting.

The chance of an accidental shooting in my house are 0 even with guns.

---

I conceded it was a low chance. By any chance is greater than 0. If there was no chance Of it happening, we wouldn't have any accidental shootings. My point was you made it seem as though the chance of it happening is 0, when that is just a willful ignorance to the facts. If a gun is in your home, it is greater than 0%. It may be 0.0001%, it may be 0.5%, it may be 1%. All of which are very Lowe numbers, but it is more than 0.

---

I get exactly what you are saying. But at what point is the number actually worth worrying about?

.0001--no
.5--no
1%--no

I'm not sure what my number is. I'll think about it. I've never lost sleep about my kids odds of dying because there is a gun in our home. I think I sleep better knowing their chances of survival since the police like to take 10-20 minutes responding to calls in our neighborhood. My response is/will be/can be immediate.

What's yours?

Sam Lowry said:

---

My number is 10,000%.

Guns are used in self-defense against violent crime approximately 100 times for every 1 accidental gun death. This is according to statistics favored by gun control advocates, not by the NRA. Therefore, if the number of accidental gun deaths increased by more than 10,000%, the costs of gun ownership would begin to exceed the benefits.

---

and noone is arguing to take your gun ownership away

cms186 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

My number is 10,000%.

Guns are used in self-defense against violent crime approximately 100 times for every 1 accidental gun death. This is according to statistics favored by gun control advocates, not by the NRA. Therefore, if the number of accidental gun deaths increased by more than 10,000%, the costs of gun ownership would begin to exceed the benefits.

---

and noone is arguing to take your gun ownership away

---

Sure they are:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

cms186 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

My number is 10,000%.

Guns are used in self-defense against violent crime approximately 100 times for every 1 accidental gun death. This is according to statistics favored by gun control advocates, not by the NRA. Therefore, if the number of accidental gun deaths increased by more than 10,000%, the costs of gun ownership would begin to exceed the benefits.

---

and noone is arguing to take your gun ownership away

---

Actually there's an alarming amount who do...

I think I know the owners of about 1 percent of the guns owned in Texas. They are related some how.
You boys need to move into better weapons. Grab a flame thrower before the government bans them or the NRA rewrites the gun laws from the ones they wrote in 1968.