It's all they got and there's no there there.LTbear said:HashTag said:Nice try jackwad. The fact remains that Obama waited considerably longer to take action over a pandemic that was infecting people by the millions and killing in the thousands, including 100s of children.Quote:
If you're seriously comparing H1N1 and Coronavirus, you don't know what you're talking about.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/
For instance, H1N1 had a death rate of .02%. Flu kills at .01%.
COVID19 kills at 3.5%.
Kind of a huge difference right there. Please find a different argument if you're going to continue to blindly support the President. That one doesn't hold any water.
The fact remains that the media, those in the democrat establishment and the left remained pretty quiet compared to the over hyped sensationalism their engaged in today - and you know this to be true.
If you're going to continue to blindly support the schumers, pelosis, the left wing media, you're arguments hole no water.
Just admit it.... Obama did no better than Trump. Obama is guilty of everything you and the "woke" left are trying to pin on the current president
But let me guess... you probably still believe the Russians gave the election to Trump, Blasey Ford was assaulted by Kavanaugh and Anna Nicole married for love
How good or bad Obama did has zero bearing on how good or bad Trump is doing.
How well is Trump and his administration handling the Coronavirus epidemic?
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Of course, most Tea Partiers ARE wacko. With Jim Jordan leading the charge.quash said:HashTag said:Ahhhh... so your a Republican never Trumper then?Jackson Bear said:Funny how the stock market has gone up more under Democrats than Republicans. This always blows my more conservative economics students away because they are so uYou can fact check that, which is something most Republicans have forgotten to do (I say this as a Republican). Conservatism is about real science and real world facts, not what you wish or imagine it would be.Florda_mike said:
I'd feel sorry for you but you're too hateful and destructive to care about
Trump's incompetence hasn't been realized when it comes to the economy! It's buzzing
But leave it to your democrats, AGAIN, to crash the stock market. But ....... that's what your democrats do
Maybe you have government supported science job that Trump felt was worthless and needed cut? If so, I'm sorry you're on unemployment as I've seen that be stressful for some
Also, the market was more up under Obama's first three years than Trump's.
Does all this mean that Democrats are better for the stock market than Republicans? No, there is a lot more to it than that. But Tumpistas and wacko Tea Partiers need to stop believing untrue facts and imagined correlations.
Tell me, exactly what makes the Tea Partiers so wacky?
I ask this as a staunch Libertarian.
He said wacko Tea Partiers, not that Tea Partiers are wacko. There's a difference.
And I say that as a staunch Libertarian. Who remembers the hijacking of the TP movement in San Antonio. At least Con. Smash stayed true to the original TP principles, not without cost.
Okay, so what makes them wacko specifically?Jinx 2 said:Of course, most Tea Partiers ARE wacko. With Jim Jordan leading the charge.quash said:HashTag said:Ahhhh... so your a Republican never Trumper then?Jackson Bear said:Funny how the stock market has gone up more under Democrats than Republicans. This always blows my more conservative economics students away because they are so uYou can fact check that, which is something most Republicans have forgotten to do (I say this as a Republican). Conservatism is about real science and real world facts, not what you wish or imagine it would be.Florda_mike said:
I'd feel sorry for you but you're too hateful and destructive to care about
Trump's incompetence hasn't been realized when it comes to the economy! It's buzzing
But leave it to your democrats, AGAIN, to crash the stock market. But ....... that's what your democrats do
Maybe you have government supported science job that Trump felt was worthless and needed cut? If so, I'm sorry you're on unemployment as I've seen that be stressful for some
Also, the market was more up under Obama's first three years than Trump's.
Does all this mean that Democrats are better for the stock market than Republicans? No, there is a lot more to it than that. But Tumpistas and wacko Tea Partiers need to stop believing untrue facts and imagined correlations.
Tell me, exactly what makes the Tea Partiers so wacky?
I ask this as a staunch Libertarian.
He said wacko Tea Partiers, not that Tea Partiers are wacko. There's a difference.
And I say that as a staunch Libertarian. Who remembers the hijacking of the TP movement in San Antonio. At least Con. Smash stayed true to the original TP principles, not without cost.
This will take a long response, so bear with me. I lean Libertarian on social issues as well. However, the evidence from the world of Macroeconomics does not support the Tea Party approach to the Great Recession (which formed from the government's response to that crisis). This is stuff you will find in ordinary surveys in textbooks such as Mankiw (former chair of Bush 43's Council of Economic Advisors) and Krugman (Nobel prize winner and leading public intellectual).HashTag said:
Ahhhh... so your a Republican never Trumper then?
Tell me, exactly what makes the Tea Partiers so wacky?
I ask this as a staunch Libertarian.
The Tea Party was inspired and formed after a rant by Rick Santelli on the floor of the Chicago exchange on CNBC. Their basic line of economic reasoning is that the Gov. checkbook should be managed like an ordinary person's finances. Thus, if the Gov. income goes down, the budget should be cut to balance and that there should be no bailouts or special deals because ordinary persons don't get those. While this sounds great from an emotional perspective (matters of a person's checkbook are always emotional), big picture macroeconomic world does not work that way. Macroeconomics is the study of national and international economy wide interactions and relationships. Microeconomics is the study of individuals and their economic decisions (size does not matter and it looks at mega corporations and ordinary people the same way and makes few distinctions because they are still individual actors). These two parts of the study of economics have different rules and if you confuse the two and apply micro principles to macro and vice versa, you will get wrong results and analysis (just like you can't combine Einstein's Theory of Relativity and Quantum Physics. They are both accurate, but Einstein only applies to large bodies of matter and Quantum only applies to the world of subatomic particles. You must apply them to their proper areas only).
In a horrible demand shock like the Great Recession (which was caused by a financial crisis and those always make for a much worse downturn and longer recovery), demand drops off a cliff and interest rates approach zero and in some cases, go effectively below zero as judged by yields on certain bonds (German for example). At this point, there is no incentive for an individual (whether a real person or corporation) to spend money on investments which actually grow the economy. The danger in this is it can cause deflation, which is way worse than inflation and much harder to cure. GDP is composed of consumer spending, business investment spending, government spending, and exports minus imports. During the Great Recession, consumers and businesses were cutting back and of course that affects exports, so the only entity that could spend was the Government. Also, money was basically free with interest rates being so low. There are two tools that can be used to combat recessions: fiscal policy and monetary policy. Fiscal policy is the government's taxing and spending powers (managed by Congress). Monetary policy is the expansion and contraction of the money supply (managed by the Federal Reserve according to congressional statute). Ideally, both should be used. The Fed deployed monetary policy cannons like never before, but dumping money into an economy with interest rates close to zero or effectively below really doesn't do much because you can't make persons (real and corporate) spend to increase GDP. The money just sits there in electronic accounts and not used effectively. The government can spend however, and the GDP formula does not care where the money comes from, it only cares about the total spending outcome.
The Government can deploy money in two ways: tax cuts or spending. The problem with tax cuts is that they go to the people that generally already have money and they will tend to save it. Nothing wrong with that individually, but in the case of an economic disaster, we need that money spent to restart the heart of the economy (just like you would pump blood and fluids into a trauma patient in the hospital). I used my check from the government to pay down debt in the early 2000s recession, but the purpose of those checks sent out to people was for them to spend it (my debt being paid down did not help the current economy because those transactions had already been counted). We call this idea the Paradox of Thrift and it illustrates how the worlds of Macro and Microeconomics are very different. Free enterprise economics is based on the idea that society overall prospers when we all make decisions in our own financial interests. However, if we fear a recession coming and all cut back on our spending and increase savings (these are individually virtuous decisions), we actually are causing harm to the overall economy and can create a self-producing recession. So, if you applied a micro principal of balancing the government's check book during the Great Recession (or Great Depression or any other eco crisis), you would actually be making the patient worse (equivalent to bleeding the trauma patient instead of putting fluids in him or her). Europe overall went down this path and it created their sovereign debt crisis (also because the Euro transition was poorly designed) and made for a much slower recovery than the US. We did do a combination of tax cuts and spending increases, but the $800 billion was the largest amount that could be passed politically and economists were warning that this would not be enough to bridge the output gap that had developed. A huge infrastructure plan could have put all those construction workers back to work and created a renewed national infrastructure that would still be with us to day and the long-term economic impact in increased productivity would have paid for it with the record low interest rates (Just like TARP made a profit and saved the banks which eventually helped us recover).
The Trump economy is growing at a no greater trend rate long term than Obama's. You can look online and see the trend line. There is no huge spike of Trump growth showing something had changed. Growth has slowed back down after the effects of the sugar high tax cut went into effect (which they promised would increase growth permanently over 4%, which is has not because businesses have not increased overall their investment spending. They plowed most of it back into stock repurchases). The stock market under Obama was actually up more at this time in his presidency. The Trump economy has benefited from one thing Republicans and Tea Partiers denied Obama: fiscal stimulus. There has been big increases in government spending as the budget caps adopted under Obama have been lifted. Economists have shown if this type of stimulus had been allowed by Congress under Obama, the recovery would have been much faster. So basically, the Republicans have shown they will support deficit spending to support their president, but not a Democrat. This is hypocritical and wrong.
Tea partiers claimed the budget must be balanced: Europe went that route and in some ways they still have not recovered (especially on the periphery of the Eurozone). Trump economy gets fiscal stimulus and continues its' upward trajectory. Tea partiers claimed that interest rates should have been raised (Trump was *****ing about this during Obama, but now as President wants them down to zero last summer and fall to support an economy that he almost cased a recession in due to business uncertainty over trade policy). Tea partiers claimed that TARP was going to be a disaster, a huge loss, and rescue bad actors. It was one of the most successful economic interventions ever that saved the financial sector and prevented a collapse and second Great Depression. It also turned a profit (all this you can look up with a simple Google search). Yes, some people did not get what they deserved, but the purpose of Government is to protect the common good. Millions more people would have been hurt by the bad actions of a few without TARP. Tea partiers also said the huge increase in the money supply would promote banana republic inflation. They predicted this for years and it still has not come to pass and the actual danger has always tilted towards delation since 2008. Time and time again the Tea Party economic analysis has been wrong.
One element of conservatism is looking at the world the way it really is, not the way you want it to be (Pollyanna view). What does the evidence show? What does research and science say? This is why most conservative intellectuals like George Will, Greg Mankiw (mentioned above), Charles Krauthammer David Brooks, etc. have changed their registration to independent. The party has become an ethno-nationalist populist party like those in Europe. That is why the Republicans are overall losing the suburbs and college educated voters that last two elections in 2016 and especially 2018 (you are fixing to freak as you read that, but look it up). The party is ultimately moving towards its own demographic destruction because evangelicals and the white working class are shrinking as a share to the voting bloc. All others groups are moving towards the Democrats during the Trump takeover. This greatly saddens me because my party of the party of George Bush (both), Bob Dole, McCain, Nixon, etc.
All this is info can be fact checked through a Google search. Remember, opinion pieces are just that unless they show sources for their opinion. And almost every time I have fact checked a right-wing article like Hannity, their facts are wrong through an easy Google search.
All the non-partisan fact checking sites rate NYT, CNN, and WP high for factually accuracy. No one is 100 percent, but they are about as good as you can get. You can take issue with opinion pages, hosts, the way headlines are written, etc., but they are first class when it comes to traditional reporting.HashTag said:Actually, that's not the problem. No one I know that is in my circle (or outside of it) thinks that Hannity is a "news" show. Trust me, we fully know and acknowledge Hannity, Tucker, etc... is opinionated programming.TexasScientist said:
The problem is many confuse shows like Hannity, or Maddow as factual news reporting. They are not and often miss-state, skew, and mislead much of the news.
The three real problems are....
1) Too many liberal outlets like the NY Times, CNN, etc... publish outright falsehoods and try to pass them off as truth
2) Too many of those on the left read only the headlines and never venture into the article
3) Most "woke" liberals see what they believe, instead of the other way around
Interesting post, Jackson. Especially regarding some of the realignment you are mentioning. I have noted in the past month or so several conservative Reagan Republican commentators are out of the closet and actively endorsing Biden and Democratic Senate candidates. The Democratic coalition seems to be expanding with Reagan type Republicans joining the moderate wing. Commentators such as Charlie Sykes, Jennifer Rubin , David Fromm.. among a few of whom I speak.
Democrats overall are the more moderate party. Fox always shows Sanders and AOC to get their base riled up and watching so they can get more ad money, but political science has shown what Biden has demonstrated that most Democrats are slightly left of center. Political science has shown the Republican party has shifted massively to the right over the last 20 years. Reagan and Bush would not be able to get the nomination now. That is really messed up.PartyBear said:
Interesting post, Jackson. Especially regarding some of the realignment you are mentioning. I have noted in the past month or so several conservative Reagan Republican commentators are out of the closet and actively endorsing Biden and Democratic Senate candidates. The Democratic coalition seems to be expanding with Reagan type Republicans joining the moderate wing. Commentators such as Charlie Sykes, Jennifer Rubin , David Fromm.. among a few of whom I speak.
This is reflected in Democratic growth in the Texas suburbs in 2016 and especially 2018. The Democratic primary last week showed huge increases in Democrats voting in the Texas suburbs that traditionally over the last 30 years have gone massively Republican. At least under Trump, the educated overall are moving towards the Democrats, which traditionally has not been the case. College voters usually have gone Republican. That should speak to some people on this board. The only college educated folk I know that support Trump are white evangelicals, but their numbers are shrinking.
Bill Kristol (another Republican intellectual and formerly of The Weekly Standard) said a few weeks ago "We are all Democrats now for 2020."
People flying home from Europe were probably more endangered by their flight and then the screening experience: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/15/chaos-dulles-airport-shows-how-not-handle-pandemic/
I had thought I was lucky to get one of the last seats home. And I was confident, because Dulles had been identified by the administration as one of the handful of U.S. airports equipped to test arriving passengers and admit or quarantine them accordingly, that I would find a rigorous protocol in place upon arrival. Obviously, the administration would not take such a momentous step without solid preparation.
I could not have been more wrong. Upon landing, I spent three hours in a jammed immigration hall trying to decide which analogy fit better: the ignorant Middle Ages during the plague years or the most chaotic airport in the least developed country.
The pictures you may have seen only begin to capture the chaos. There was no attempt to enable social distancing; we were packed closely together. Two giant queues of people one for U.S. citizens and green-card holders and one for foreign nationals wound their way through the cavernous hall. I counted and came up with approximately 450 people in each section, for a total of just under a thousand. Many were coughing, sneezing and looking unwell.
I had thought I was lucky to get one of the last seats home. And I was confident, because Dulles had been identified by the administration as one of the handful of U.S. airports equipped to test arriving passengers and admit or quarantine them accordingly, that I would find a rigorous protocol in place upon arrival. Obviously, the administration would not take such a momentous step without solid preparation.
I could not have been more wrong. Upon landing, I spent three hours in a jammed immigration hall trying to decide which analogy fit better: the ignorant Middle Ages during the plague years or the most chaotic airport in the least developed country.
The pictures you may have seen only begin to capture the chaos. There was no attempt to enable social distancing; we were packed closely together. Two giant queues of people one for U.S. citizens and green-card holders and one for foreign nationals wound their way through the cavernous hall. I counted and came up with approximately 450 people in each section, for a total of just under a thousand. Many were coughing, sneezing and looking unwell.
Amazing how uninformed this is. I'm assuming you only watch MSNBC and haven't been paying attention the last month+. Even radical liberal Governors are praising the administration and especially Mike Pence for what they've done.PartyBear said:
Almost all actions to prevent this are occurring under leadership of local governments, states, business (like Disney and small local business as well), churches other houses of worship etc and individuals deciding on their own to self quarantine as much as possible. There has been no leadership nationally during this epic crisis.
If Trump & the administration didn't put the China ban on early we would be worse off than Italy right now and who knows how many deaths. They've also put together an incredible partnership w/ the private sector, cut a ton of red tape and change govt policy on dealing w/ these pandemics that was not in place. I could go on and on - I'm not trying to be political because Trump isn't perfect obviously but smearing them during a crisis when they are working 20 hrs/day on this is truly pathetic even if you hate this President.
Since you people never print the truth/corrections when #fakenews happens I'll do it for you. Amazing how after 4 years of the media pushing the most conspiratorial lies and smears, you people still believe them. Sad. Obviously Trump is far from perfect and I can't stand a lot of things about him but it's sad that our media is trying to smear him during a crisis. The one thing that should bring us all together is this, there will be plenty of time after it's over to go after them for mistakes, etcBrooksBearLives said:
If we've learned anything over the past 4 years (and 20yrs) it's that you just can't trust most of the liberal media.
The President plainly misstated the scope and immediacy of Google's work and incorrectly implied that the work resulted from a partnership with the federal government. It is as plain as day.
Not the end of the world, nobody's perfect, etc., etc. But if anyone needs to issue a retraction or clarification it is POTUS, not the people reporting on POTUS' mistake.
Not the end of the world, nobody's perfect, etc., etc. But if anyone needs to issue a retraction or clarification it is POTUS, not the people reporting on POTUS' mistake.
Read Google's #2 tweet. Directly contradicts the tweet. The point of that tweet was to smear the President. It gets old.Booray said:
The President plainly misstated the scope and immediacy of Google's work and incorrectly implied that the work resulted from a partnership with the federal government. It is as plain as day.
Not the end of the world, nobody's perfect, etc., etc. But if anyone needs to issue a retraction or clarification it is POTUS, not the people reporting on POTUS' mistake.
It was the female Dr from the State dept who spoke about the partnership w/ Google w/ their visual board they had. Watch the press conference.
What do you define 'traditional reporting'Jackson Bear said:All the non-partisan fact checking sites rate NYT, CNN, and WP high for factually accuracy. No one is 100 percent, but they are about as good as you can get. You can take issue with opinion pages, hosts, the way headlines are written, etc., but they are first class when it comes to traditional reporting.HashTag said:Actually, that's not the problem. No one I know that is in my circle (or outside of it) thinks that Hannity is a "news" show. Trust me, we fully know and acknowledge Hannity, Tucker, etc... is opinionated programming.TexasScientist said:
The problem is many confuse shows like Hannity, or Maddow as factual news reporting. They are not and often miss-state, skew, and mislead much of the news.
The three real problems are....
1) Too many liberal outlets like the NY Times, CNN, etc... publish outright falsehoods and try to pass them off as truth
2) Too many of those on the left read only the headlines and never venture into the article
3) Most "woke" liberals see what they believe, instead of the other way around
If you are talking about this President and politics there are literally 1000s of articles they posted in the last 4 years that were WRONG misleading and meant to smear this President. They've been doing it for decades and if there was another GOP President in office they would be doing the same thing. They have an agenda and they don't hide it anymore. At least that has been exposed now. Yes, they do get some things right and our President has many failures (as they all do) but to defend the liberal media is the most baffling thing I've read in 4 years on here.
Again, the President was the one who made the mistake in describing Google's work. Blaming people who comment on that mistake is a pretty odd response.riflebear said:Read Google's #2 tweet. Directly contradicts the tweet. The point of that tweet was to smear the President. It gets old.Booray said:
The President plainly misstated the scope and immediacy of Google's work and incorrectly implied that the work resulted from a partnership with the federal government. It is as plain as day.
Not the end of the world, nobody's perfect, etc., etc. But if anyone needs to issue a retraction or clarification it is POTUS, not the people reporting on POTUS' mistake.
It was the female Dr from the State dept who spoke about the partnership w/ Google w/ their visual board they had. Watch the press conference.
Jackson Bear said:This is just beyond stupid and shows a basic lack of math reasoning. Coronavirus has a death rate over 100 times higher than swine flu (0.02% vs. 2-3%, look it up). This year's flu is a 0.01% death rate. COVID is 20 times more deadly.Canada2017 said:
Almost 13,000 Americans died of the swine flu, many were children ....over 50 million got sick .
But millions still had the opportunity to crowd into stadiums to watch their favorite football/ baseball teams....clever leadership .
Explain that to the families of the 13,000 dead ....59 million sick .
They are expendable while preserving entertainment venues. Clever leadership .
An article showing the President said something that was incorrect and that there was good evidence the he knew was incorrect is not a smear. That is a report doing their job. Trump or a lackey saying the article was incorrect does not make the article wrong. Case on point Barr's inaccurate portrayal of the Mueller report that required Mueller to make public statements stating that Barr had not given an accurate summation to the American people. There are not 1000s of articles that have been proven wrong. Just because a conservative outlet says they are wrong is not proof. Again, use factcheck.org, snopes.com, or plenty of other sites out there that are not partisan. Look at the sites that rate the media. Fox comes off much more poorly for factuality than CNN.riflebear said:What do you define 'traditional reporting'Jackson Bear said:All the non-partisan fact checking sites rate NYT, CNN, and WP high for factually accuracy. No one is 100 percent, but they are about as good as you can get. You can take issue with opinion pages, hosts, the way headlines are written, etc., but they are first class when it comes to traditional reporting.HashTag said:Actually, that's not the problem. No one I know that is in my circle (or outside of it) thinks that Hannity is a "news" show. Trust me, we fully know and acknowledge Hannity, Tucker, etc... is opinionated programming.TexasScientist said:
The problem is many confuse shows like Hannity, or Maddow as factual news reporting. They are not and often miss-state, skew, and mislead much of the news.
The three real problems are....
1) Too many liberal outlets like the NY Times, CNN, etc... publish outright falsehoods and try to pass them off as truth
2) Too many of those on the left read only the headlines and never venture into the article
3) Most "woke" liberals see what they believe, instead of the other way around
If you are talking about this President and politics there are literally 1000s of articles they posted in the last 4 years that were WRONG misleading and meant to smear this President. They've been doing it for decades and if there was another GOP President in office they would be doing the same thing. They have an agenda and they don't hide it anymore. At least that has been exposed now. Yes, they do get some things right and our President has many failures (as they all do) but to defend the liberal media is the most baffling thing I've read in 4 years on here.
Brett Giroir, about to speak at the press conference, is someone I know from mission trips to Honduras. He is a brilliant guy and a workaholic of the highest order. Really glad to see him take a leading role.
Booray said:
Brett Giroir, about to speak at the press conference, is someone I know from church and mission trips to Honduras. He is a brilliant guy and a workaholic of the highest order. Really glad to see him take a leading role.
We could also make modifications to our driving that could make us safer, like drive a tank. There is a level of risk we tolerate as a society in all the things we do. A 2% chance of dying and an overwhelmed health care system crosses the line of what a society can tolerate. A larger number of people than 13,000 die due to exposure to things like pollution, 2nd hand smoke, etc. We all base our decisions on percentage of risk.Canada2017 said:Jackson Bear said:This is just beyond stupid and shows a basic lack of math reasoning. Coronavirus has a death rate over 100 times higher than swine flu (0.02% vs. 2-3%, look it up). This year's flu is a 0.01% death rate. COVID is 20 times more deadly.Canada2017 said:
Almost 13,000 Americans died of the swine flu, many were children ....over 50 million got sick .
But millions still had the opportunity to crowd into stadiums to watch their favorite football/ baseball teams....clever leadership .
Explain that to the families of the 13,000 dead ....59 million sick .
They are expendable while preserving entertainment venues. Clever leadership .
Here is my question on the testing-it sounds like we have invested a great deal of effort and time in our version of a "high through put" test. Why was that necessary given the existence of the WHO/German test available weeks ago? What benefit have we gotten out of the delay?
HashTag said:Nice try jackwad. The fact remains that Obama waited considerably longer to take action over a pandemic that was infecting people by the millions and killing in the thousands, including 100s of children.Quote:
If you're seriously comparing H1N1 and Coronavirus, you don't know what you're talking about.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/
For instance, H1N1 had a death rate of .02%. Flu kills at .01%.
COVID19 kills at 3.5%.
Kind of a huge difference right there. Please find a different argument if you're going to continue to blindly support the President. That one doesn't hold any water.
The fact remains that the media, those in the democrat establishment and the left remained pretty quiet compared to the over hyped sensationalism their engaged in today - and you know this to be true.
If you're going to continue to blindly support the schumers, pelosis, the left wing media, you're arguments hole no water.
Just admit it.... Obama did no better than Trump. Obama is guilty of everything you and the "woke" left are trying to pin on the current president
But let me guess... you probably still believe the Russians gave the election to Trump, Blasey Ford was assaulted by Kavanaugh and Anna Nicole married for love
What the **** are you even talking about? What does Kavenaugh have to do...
Listen to yourself, man.
Jackson Bear said:We could also make modifications to our driving that could make us safer, like drive a tank. There is a level of risk we tolerate as a society in all the things we do. A 2% chance of dying and an overwhelmed health care system crosses the line of what a society can tolerate. A larger number of people than 13,000 die due to exposure to things like pollution, 2nd hand smoke, etc. We all base our decisions on percentage of risk.Canada2017 said:Jackson Bear said:This is just beyond stupid and shows a basic lack of math reasoning. Coronavirus has a death rate over 100 times higher than swine flu (0.02% vs. 2-3%, look it up). This year's flu is a 0.01% death rate. COVID is 20 times more deadly.Canada2017 said:
Almost 13,000 Americans died of the swine flu, many were children ....over 50 million got sick .
But millions still had the opportunity to crowd into stadiums to watch their favorite football/ baseball teams....clever leadership .
Explain that to the families of the 13,000 dead ....59 million sick .
They are expendable while preserving entertainment venues. Clever leadership .
With respect .....59 million sick ....13,000 dead .
Society should be willing to 'tolerate' the suspension of certain entertainments .
Especially in regards to novel virus's that can easily mutate ( and often do ) into even more virulent strains .
One could attempt to argue that we are over reacting . That all the shutdowns aren't needed . Time will tell .
Though I literally dread what could happen next fall if a 2nd wave occurs .
Booray said:
Here is my question on the testing-it sounds like we have invested a great deal of effort and time in our version of a "high through put" test. Why was that necessary given the existence of the WHO/German test available weeks ago? What benefit have we gotten out of the delay?
Because the CDC wanted to organize and track the data easier, so they required that all testing be done by them and on kits they developed with several forms to go along with it. They rejected the WHO protocol in favor of their own (other countries have done this too).The difference being what genes they chose to target. The WHO protocol targets the envelope protein gene (E). The CDC used three targets in the nucleocapsid gene (N). One of those targets infamously did not work. Huge blunder as patient testing, in this country, need to be by the book, accurate results or nothing goes. As the virus grew, they enlisted the help of state public health labs, but even they could only do so much.
Finally, last week, the FDA removed the red tape, and issued Emergency Use Authorization to private labs (LabCorp, Quest etc) and test developers (Roche) which has opened the flood gates and test throughput will be in the hundreds of thousands per week. That call should have been made sooner.
Edit to answer the question: the problem was not in the decision to develop their own test as that's fairly straightforward for the CDC. The problem was they got caught up in micromanaging the data of the spread (initially requiring ALL tests be shipped to them in Atlanta!) and weren't prepared for what the workload would become. They tried to limit things by setting strict guidelines on which patients met the criteria for testing, but they never stood a chance. Then of course the quality error was the cherry on top.
Took a break from here pretty much all weekend
Glad I did
Idiocracy is setting in around here it appears
Glad I did
Idiocracy is setting in around here it appears
Got real quiet here.
You took break too?
The Trumpsters seem to have run off.
All I know is every morning I wake up I'm one day closer to death. Statistically, I have outlived my longevity. One thing I've learned in life is it goes on. It will go on with or without me. Or any of us for that matter. What does frost me is I won't be able to post on the board when I'm headed to the "Happy Hunting Ground." Yes, the virus is a concern, but my biggest fear is getting killed at Costco, HEB, WalMart or the like, over a roll of ars wipe or pack of bottled water. Still puzzled over why the toilet paper and bottled water? Found a loophole in HOA Covenants, rules for backyard sheds but not compost piles. Just built a compost pile in backyard. Finally a way to avoid the ticket isle. Amazing how much one saves with the finger method. No problem, washing my hand every two minutes religiously per talking heads recommendations. Rats, low on soap headed for the soap isle. If you don't see another post, leave the flowers on the compost pile. Life is good.Canada2017 said:Jackson Bear said:This is just beyond stupid and shows a basic lack of math reasoning. Coronavirus has a death rate over 100 times higher than swine flu (0.02% vs. 2-3%, look it up). This year's flu is a 0.01% death rate. COVID is 20 times more deadly.Canada2017 said:
Almost 13,000 Americans died of the swine flu, many were children ....over 50 million got sick .
But millions still had the opportunity to crowd into stadiums to watch their favorite football/ baseball teams....clever leadership .
Explain that to the families of the 13,000 dead ....59 million sick .
They are expendable while preserving entertainment venues. Clever leadership .
syme said:Booray said:
Here is my question on the testing-it sounds like we have invested a great deal of effort and time in our version of a "high through put" test. Why was that necessary given the existence of the WHO/German test available weeks ago? What benefit have we gotten out of the delay?
Because the CDC wanted to organize and track the data easier, so they required that all testing be done by them and on kits they developed with several forms to go along with it. They rejected the WHO protocol in favor of their own (other countries have done this too).The difference being what genes they chose to target. The WHO protocol targets the envelope protein gene (E). The CDC used three targets in the nucleocapsid gene (N). One of those targets infamously did not work. Huge blunder as patient testing, in this country, need to be by the book, accurate results or nothing goes. As the virus grew, they enlisted the help of state public health labs, but even they could only do so much.
Finally, last week, the FDA removed the red tape, and issued Emergency Use Authorization to private labs (LabCorp, Quest etc) and test developers (Roche) which has opened the flood gates and test throughput will be in the hundreds of thousands per week. That call should have been made sooner.
Edit to answer the question: the problem was not in the decision to develop their own test as that's fairly straightforward for the CDC. The problem was they got caught up in micromanaging the data of the spread (initially requiring ALL tests be shipped to them in Atlanta!) and weren't prepared for what the workload would become. They tried to limit things by setting strict guidelines on which patients met the criteria for testing, but they never stood a chance. Then of course the quality error was the cherry on top.
Thanks
BrooksBearLives said:HashTag said:Nice try jackwad. The fact remains that Obama waited considerably longer to take action over a pandemic that was infecting people by the millions and killing in the thousands, including 100s of children.Quote:
If you're seriously comparing H1N1 and Coronavirus, you don't know what you're talking about.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/
For instance, H1N1 had a death rate of .02%. Flu kills at .01%.
COVID19 kills at 3.5%.
Kind of a huge difference right there. Please find a different argument if you're going to continue to blindly support the President. That one doesn't hold any water.
The fact remains that the media, those in the democrat establishment and the left remained pretty quiet compared to the over hyped sensationalism their engaged in today - and you know this to be true.
If you're going to continue to blindly support the schumers, pelosis, the left wing media, you're arguments hole no water.
Just admit it.... Obama did no better than Trump. Obama is guilty of everything you and the "woke" left are trying to pin on the current president
But let me guess... you probably still believe the Russians gave the election to Trump, Blasey Ford was assaulted by Kavanaugh and Anna Nicole married for love
What the **** are you even talking about? What does Kavenaugh have to do...
Listen to yourself, man.
He's clearly pointing out the lock step consistency you leftists engage in by continuing to blindly believe the 24 / 7 democrat Pravda media even after that same media gets demonstrably proven to be 100% wrong over and over and over again by providing a few specific examples like the Kavanaugh fiasco.
Listen to yourself........man.........
Johnny Bear said:BrooksBearLives said:HashTag said:Nice try jackwad. The fact remains that Obama waited considerably longer to take action over a pandemic that was infecting people by the millions and killing in the thousands, including 100s of children.Quote:
If you're seriously comparing H1N1 and Coronavirus, you don't know what you're talking about.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/
For instance, H1N1 had a death rate of .02%. Flu kills at .01%.
COVID19 kills at 3.5%.
Kind of a huge difference right there. Please find a different argument if you're going to continue to blindly support the President. That one doesn't hold any water.
The fact remains that the media, those in the democrat establishment and the left remained pretty quiet compared to the over hyped sensationalism their engaged in today - and you know this to be true.
If you're going to continue to blindly support the schumers, pelosis, the left wing media, you're arguments hole no water.
Just admit it.... Obama did no better than Trump. Obama is guilty of everything you and the "woke" left are trying to pin on the current president
But let me guess... you probably still believe the Russians gave the election to Trump, Blasey Ford was assaulted by Kavanaugh and Anna Nicole married for love
What the **** are you even talking about? What does Kavenaugh have to do...
Listen to yourself, man.
He's clearly pointing out the lock step consistency you leftists engage in by continuing to blindly believe the 24 / 7 democrat Pravda media even after that same media gets demonstrably proven to be 100% wrong over and over and over again by providing a few specific examples like the Kavanaugh fiasco.
Listen to yourself........man.........
Holy ***** Stop.
You guys won't even admit President Trump screwed ANYTHING up. You're literally arguing he's perfect.
But it's "the libs" fault? You are why we can't have nice things.
Germany has confirmed Trump tried to bribe scientists for exclusive use to the US.
Named or unnamed source? Tomorrow's headline, "Trump Tried To Buy Germany To Control All Of Europe." Ahhhh, the convenience of fiction.BrooksBearLives said:
Germany has confirmed Trump tried to bribe scientists for exclusive use to the US.
BrooksBearLives said:Johnny Bear said:BrooksBearLives said:HashTag said:Nice try jackwad. The fact remains that Obama waited considerably longer to take action over a pandemic that was infecting people by the millions and killing in the thousands, including 100s of children.Quote:
If you're seriously comparing H1N1 and Coronavirus, you don't know what you're talking about.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/
For instance, H1N1 had a death rate of .02%. Flu kills at .01%.
COVID19 kills at 3.5%.
Kind of a huge difference right there. Please find a different argument if you're going to continue to blindly support the President. That one doesn't hold any water.
The fact remains that the media, those in the democrat establishment and the left remained pretty quiet compared to the over hyped sensationalism their engaged in today - and you know this to be true.
If you're going to continue to blindly support the schumers, pelosis, the left wing media, you're arguments hole no water.
Just admit it.... Obama did no better than Trump. Obama is guilty of everything you and the "woke" left are trying to pin on the current president
But let me guess... you probably still believe the Russians gave the election to Trump, Blasey Ford was assaulted by Kavanaugh and Anna Nicole married for love
What the **** are you even talking about? What does Kavenaugh have to do...
Listen to yourself, man.
He's clearly pointing out the lock step consistency you leftists engage in by continuing to blindly believe the 24 / 7 democrat Pravda media even after that same media gets demonstrably proven to be 100% wrong over and over and over again by providing a few specific examples like the Kavanaugh fiasco.
Listen to yourself........man.........
Holy ***** Stop.
You guys won't even admit President Trump screwed ANYTHING up. You're literally arguing he's perfect.
But it's "the libs" fault? You are why we can't have nice things.
Dude. Are you okay? You sound like you are about to blow a gasket. Keep calm. Everything is going to be okay.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama