LTbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

That's just anecdote. Anecdotally, I've seen lots of people not wearing masks.

Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not suggesting that's THE reason it's getting worse, only that it's certainly a contributing factor in many places.

---

Of course it's anecdotal - just like what YOU said was anecdotal. We simply don't know whether or how much it is a contributing factor, but there is little evidence it is.

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

This isn't true outside of major cities.

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

This isn't true outside of major cities.

---

May depend on where you are, but I spend a lot of time in rural areas (hunting and fishing trips), and I've been in grocery stores, convenience stores, restaurants, and big box stores in very rural parts of Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Louisiana over the last several weeks and masks were required in the vast majority of places.

They're required and worn by with great consistency in small cities and big cities, and the virus still ebbs and flows.

I assume they help some, but they're just one of many factors.

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

This isn't true outside of major cities.

---

It is where I live, which is in the country.

Robert Wilson said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

This isn't true outside of major cities.

---

May depend on where you are, but I spend a lot of time in rural areas (hunting and fishing trips), and I've been in grocery stores, convenience stores, restaurants, and big box stores in very rural parts of Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Louisiana over the last several weeks and masks were required in the vast majority of places.

They're required and worn by with great consistency in small cities and big cities, and the virus still ebbs and flows.

I assume they help some, but they're just one of many factors.

---

Yup. I travel to small counties throughout the Hill Country for work, and every place I am the vast majority of people wear masks. Like I said, I can think of only a handful of instances where I saw someone without one in a public place.

Mothra said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

You are clearly not thinking big enough about this matter. This is the coronavirus. This is Covid. We need to shut down ALL business. No commercial activity should be allowed for six weeks. No gatherings for six weeks. No family Thanksgivings or Christmases.

If it saves just one life, then it will be worth it. We are going to destroy the cold and flu! Yes.

---

I've asked Sam if we need to repeal the Second Amendment and outlaw driving, given how many people are killed by guns and cars on a yearly basis. Still haven't gotten an answer on that one.

---

Might as well. The government has shown no reservation about interfering in private contracts and shutting down religious observance. And the People seem to not mind a whole lot.

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

This isn't true outside of major cities.

---

It is where I live, which is in the country.

---

It's definitely NOT true in Abilene, Texas, or the many rural communities I've visited around it. I'd say a majority still comply at certain places, like the grocery store, but that number gets smaller by the month, the farther removed we get from the mandate. And at high school football games, you can count the number of people wearing masks in some of these towns.

We're a very selfish and undisciplined species.

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

This isn't true outside of major cities.

---

It is where I live, which is in the country.

---

It's definitely NOT true in Abilene, Texas, or the many rural communities I've visited around it. I'd say a majority still comply at certain places, like the grocery store, but that number gets smaller by the month, the farther removed we get from the mandate. And at high school football games, you can count the number of people wearing masks in some of these towns.

We're a very selfish and undisciplined species.

---

Your personal anecdotes are very different from mine, and I travel through small towns quite a bit.

With respect to high school football games, the few I've been to required sitting apart, but are you suggesting that people sitting outdoors from a distance should be wearing masks? There's no science to suggest that's going to help anything.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

Keep believing that's the reason when nations with the strictest of mask mandates and social restriction policies are raging. Most people are masking with the equivalent of an air sponge that works both ways (external and internal) and repeatedly creating air flow through it. Science and stuff...

---

Not what the science says, but that's beating a dead horse. Hopefully the new administration can turn things around.

---

What does "science" say is the reason a number of the countries in Europe who had the most restrictions have a higher number of cases per capita than the U.S.?

---

As far as I know the only European country with a higher number of cases per capita is Belgium, which was relatively lax compared to its neighbors.

---

https://www.newsweek.com/eu-surpasses-us-new-covid-cases-per-capita-nations-prepare-winter-third-wave-1541491

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-europe-records/2020/10/15/0126c256-0ee7-11eb-b404-8d1e675ec701_story.html

---

So those are new infections, not total. There was always going to be another spike. It would naturally hit Europe first since the virus has been there longer, but we're already starting to see it here.

Mothra said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

You are clearly not thinking big enough about this matter. This is the coronavirus. This is Covid. We need to shut down ALL business. No commercial activity should be allowed for six weeks. No gatherings for six weeks. No family Thanksgivings or Christmases.

If it saves just one life, then it will be worth it. We are going to destroy the cold and flu! Yes.

---

I've asked Sam if we need to repeal the Second Amendment and outlaw driving, given how many people are killed by guns and cars on a yearly basis. Still haven't gotten an answer on that one.

---

Pretty sure my answer was that gunshots and car wrecks don't spread exponentially.

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

This isn't true outside of major cities.

---

It is where I live, which is in the country.

---

It's definitely NOT true in Abilene, Texas, or the many rural communities I've visited around it. I'd say a majority still comply at certain places, like the grocery store, but that number gets smaller by the month, the farther removed we get from the mandate. And at high school football games, you can count the number of people wearing masks in some of these towns.

We're a very selfish and undisciplined species.

---

Your personal anecdotes are very different from mine, and I travel through small towns quite a bit.

With respect to high school football games, the few I've been to required sitting apart, but are you suggesting that people sitting outdoors from a distance should be wearing masks? There's no science to suggest that's going to help anything.

---

I'm suggesting that people should follow the damn rules, which say masks are mandatory when not eating or drinking. If you can't or won't comply, you should stay home.

And people aren't distancing either in many cases. I'm at multiple sporting events every week and if the venues aren't enforcing the rules, they don't get followed. That's been my experience with stores, restaurants and gas stations out here as well.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

That's just anecdote. Anecdotally, I've seen lots of people not wearing masks.

Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not suggesting that's THE reason it's getting worse, only that it's certainly a contributing factor in many places.

---

Of course it's anecdotal - just like what YOU said was anecdotal. We simply don't know whether or how much it is a contributing factor, but there is little evidence it is.

---

The evidence is readily available.

What we really need is more PCR testing. That will generate more false positives and get us closer to tyrannical result we all want.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

That's just anecdote. Anecdotally, I've seen lots of people not wearing masks.

Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not suggesting that's THE reason it's getting worse, only that it's certainly a contributing factor in many places.

---

Of course it's anecdotal - just like what YOU said was anecdotal. We simply don't know whether or how much it is a contributing factor, but there is little evidence it is.

---

The evidence is readily available.

---

That's not evidence that the lack of mask wearing has contributed to the current issues. That's evidence that masks help. I've never suggested otherwise, even though there is evidence that says the opposite.

---

Wait, do you mean that follow the #science isn't a clean monolith? How dare you? Apostate. Prepare for the lashes. Remember this is largely about conformity with our new social religion.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

https://www.wsmv.com/news/health/vanderbilt-study-finds-tn-counties-without-mask-requirements-have-higher-covid-19-death-toll-per/article_3f83e40e-2367-11eb-b950-6fe6b36c0c9f.html

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

Keep believing that's the reason when nations with the strictest of mask mandates and social restriction policies are raging. Most people are masking with the equivalent of an air sponge that works both ways (external and internal) and repeatedly creating air flow through it. Science and stuff...

---

Not what the science says, but that's beating a dead horse. Hopefully the new administration can turn things around.

---

What does "science" say is the reason a number of the countries in Europe who had the most restrictions have a higher number of cases per capita than the U.S.?

---

As far as I know the only European country with a higher number of cases per capita is Belgium, which was relatively lax compared to its neighbors.

---

https://www.newsweek.com/eu-surpasses-us-new-covid-cases-per-capita-nations-prepare-winter-third-wave-1541491

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-europe-records/2020/10/15/0126c256-0ee7-11eb-b404-8d1e675ec701_story.html

---

So those are new infections, not total. There was always going to be another spike. It would naturally hit Europe first since the virus has been there longer, but we're already starting to see it here.

---

I've never said it was the total. The point remains. European countries have been much more draconian than the lax U.S. and Donald Trump, and the spread has increased their far worse than here.

---

Well, no, it hasn't. We're still near the top in per capita cases and deaths.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

---

Actually, I didn't cite to any evidence that lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis. You made that suggestion, without any evidence to back it up.

Mothra said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

This isn't true outside of major cities.

---

May depend on where you are, but I spend a lot of time in rural areas (hunting and fishing trips), and I've been in grocery stores, convenience stores, restaurants, and big box stores in very rural parts of Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Louisiana over the last several weeks and masks were required in the vast majority of places.

They're required and worn by with great consistency in small cities and big cities, and the virus still ebbs and flows.

I assume they help some, but they're just one of many factors.

---

Yup. I travel to small counties throughout the Hill Country for work, and every place I am the vast majority of people wear masks. Like I said, I can think of only a handful of instances where I saw someone without one in a public place.

---

I guess the Trump rallies weren't public events? Hard to believe they put them on when they were somewhere else.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

---

Actually, I didn't cite to any evidence that lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis. You made that suggestion, without any evidence to back it up.

---

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

Keep believing that's the reason when nations with the strictest of mask mandates and social restriction policies are raging. Most people are masking with the equivalent of an air sponge that works both ways (external and internal) and repeatedly creating air flow through it. Science and stuff...

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Not what the science says, but that's beating a dead horse. Hopefully the new administration can turn things around.

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What does "science" say is the reason a number of the countries in Europe who had the most restrictions have a higher number of cases per capita than the U.S.?

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As far as I know the only European country with a higher number of cases per capita is Belgium, which was relatively lax compared to its neighbors.

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https://www.newsweek.com/eu-surpasses-us-new-covid-cases-per-capita-nations-prepare-winter-third-wave-1541491

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-europe-records/2020/10/15/0126c256-0ee7-11eb-b404-8d1e675ec701_story.html

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So those are new infections, not total. There was always going to be another spike. It would naturally hit Europe first since the virus has been there longer, but we're already starting to see it here.

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I've never said it was the total. The point remains. European countries have been much more draconian than the lax U.S. and Donald Trump, and the spread has increased their far worse than here.

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Well, no, it hasn't. We're still near the top in per capita cases and deaths.

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From the link I cited, "In the EU, new COVID-19 cases per capita stood at 235 daily diagnoses on Wednesday, according to Our World in Data. In the U.S., figures placed new cases per capita at 181 infections as of Thursday."

You don't think that's far worse. We disagree,

blackie said:

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Mothra said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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LTbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Apparently we need better masks.

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Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

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The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

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This isn't true outside of major cities.

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May depend on where you are, but I spend a lot of time in rural areas (hunting and fishing trips), and I've been in grocery stores, convenience stores, restaurants, and big box stores in very rural parts of Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Louisiana over the last several weeks and masks were required in the vast majority of places.

They're required and worn by with great consistency in small cities and big cities, and the virus still ebbs and flows.

I assume they help some, but they're just one of many factors.

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Yup. I travel to small counties throughout the Hill Country for work, and every place I am the vast majority of people wear masks. Like I said, I can think of only a handful of instances where I saw someone without one in a public place.

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I guess the Trump rallies weren't public events? Hard to believe they put them on when they were somewhere else.

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I didn't travel to any of those, nor did I watch them on TV.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Apparently we need better masks.

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We can't invent one that will wear itself.

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Keep believing that's the reason when nations with the strictest of mask mandates and social restriction policies are raging. Most people are masking with the equivalent of an air sponge that works both ways (external and internal) and repeatedly creating air flow through it. Science and stuff...

---

Not what the science says, but that's beating a dead horse. Hopefully the new administration can turn things around.

---

What does "science" say is the reason a number of the countries in Europe who had the most restrictions have a higher number of cases per capita than the U.S.?

---

As far as I know the only European country with a higher number of cases per capita is Belgium, which was relatively lax compared to its neighbors.

---

https://www.newsweek.com/eu-surpasses-us-new-covid-cases-per-capita-nations-prepare-winter-third-wave-1541491

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-europe-records/2020/10/15/0126c256-0ee7-11eb-b404-8d1e675ec701_story.html

---

So those are new infections, not total. There was always going to be another spike. It would naturally hit Europe first since the virus has been there longer, but we're already starting to see it here.

---

I've never said it was the total. The point remains. European countries have been much more draconian than the lax U.S. and Donald Trump, and the spread has increased their far worse than here.

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Well, no, it hasn't. We're still near the top in per capita cases and deaths.

---

From the link I cited, "In the EU, new COVID-19 cases per capita stood at 235 daily diagnoses on Wednesday, according to Our World in Data. In the U.S., figures placed new cases per capita at 181 infections as of Thursday."

You don't think that's far worse. We disagree,

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US is worse in total per capita cases and deaths. Europe is worse in new cases, for reasons already explained. Not sure what there is to disagree about.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

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Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

Keep believing that's the reason when nations with the strictest of mask mandates and social restriction policies are raging. Most people are masking with the equivalent of an air sponge that works both ways (external and internal) and repeatedly creating air flow through it. Science and stuff...

---

Not what the science says, but that's beating a dead horse. Hopefully the new administration can turn things around.

---

What does "science" say is the reason a number of the countries in Europe who had the most restrictions have a higher number of cases per capita than the U.S.?

---

As far as I know the only European country with a higher number of cases per capita is Belgium, which was relatively lax compared to its neighbors.

---

https://www.newsweek.com/eu-surpasses-us-new-covid-cases-per-capita-nations-prepare-winter-third-wave-1541491

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-europe-records/2020/10/15/0126c256-0ee7-11eb-b404-8d1e675ec701_story.html

---

So those are new infections, not total. There was always going to be another spike. It would naturally hit Europe first since the virus has been there longer, but we're already starting to see it here.

---

I've never said it was the total. The point remains. European countries have been much more draconian than the lax U.S. and Donald Trump, and the spread has increased their far worse than here.

---

Well, no, it hasn't. We're still near the top in per capita cases and deaths.

---

From the link I cited, "In the EU, new COVID-19 cases per capita stood at 235 daily diagnoses on Wednesday, according to Our World in Data. In the U.S., figures placed new cases per capita at 181 infections as of Thursday."

You don't think that's far worse. We disagree,

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US is worse in total per capita cases and deaths. Europe is worse in new cases, for reasons already explained. Not sure what there is to disagree about.

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I agree there is no argument on that point. Again, my point was that despite its draconian measures when compared to the U.S., Europe is currently faring far worse in terms of the spread.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Apparently we need better masks.

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We can't invent one that will wear itself.

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If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

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According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

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"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

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Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

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Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

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You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

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Actually, I didn't cite to any evidence that lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis. You made that suggestion, without any evidence to back it up.

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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

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Once again, there is no evidence in your link that the lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

---

Actually, I didn't cite to any evidence that lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis. You made that suggestion, without any evidence to back it up.

---

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

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Once again, there is no evidence in your link that the lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis

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It's your link. See the quoted passage above.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

---

Actually, I didn't cite to any evidence that lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis. You made that suggestion, without any evidence to back it up.

---

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

Once again, there is no evidence in your link that the lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis

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It's your link. See the quoted passage above.

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The quoted passage that says "might"? That's your evidence?

Gold Tron said:

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J.R. said:

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which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

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There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

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One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.