Abbott signs "anti-critical race theory" bill into law

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boognish_bear
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Doc Holliday said:

boognish_bear said:

Tucker has the stones to say Milley, a green beret, is not brave. He of course did say it to him directly.


He's a high paid bureaucrat engaged in the systemic creation of war for profit and he knows it.

Don't start believing an alternate reality because it's politically convenient.


Why did Trump pick him?
Doc Holliday
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boognish_bear said:

Doc Holliday said:

boognish_bear said:

Tucker has the stones to say Milley, a green beret, is not brave. He of course did say it to him directly.


He's a high paid bureaucrat engaged in the systemic creation of war for profit and he knows it.

Don't start believing an alternate reality because it's politically convenient.


Why did Trump pick him?
Because he had no idea what he was in for.
C. Jordan
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boognish_bear said:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2021/06/15/gov-abbott-signs-anti-critical-race-theory-bill-into-law-over-objections-from-educators-and-civic-groups/



Gov. Abbott signs 'anti-critical race theory' bill into law over objections from educators and civic groups

Opponents say the Texas law, which goes into effect Sept. 1, will have a chilling effect on schools.

Texas on Tuesday became the latest conservative state to bar certain concepts related to race and racism from being discussed in the classroom, ignoring the passionate objections of educators who say the new law will make it harder for them to teach about America's true past and present.

A bill that legislators say sought to ban "critical race theory" in school but never defined or mentioned the concept explicitly stirred fear among educators that there could be repercussions for broaching current events during class.

Gov. Greg Abbott signed the broad legislation into law without fanfare, according to the Texas Legislature Online service. The law will go into effect in September. The governor's spokeswoman did not respond to The Dallas Morning News' requests for comment Tuesday night.

Now, educators and civics advocates question how the vague language in the bill actually translates into the classroom and whether a legal challenge could strike it down. They'll be closely watching how the State Board of Education takes on the Legislature's mandate and revamps Texas' social studies curriculum.

"We've got a piece-of-junk legislation for us to work with," said Pat Hardy, a Republican member of the State Board of Education and a former history teacher who had hoped Abbott would veto the legislation.

The Legislature approved the bill in the dramatic final days of session after hours of debate and procedural back and forth. Teachers and education groups made impassioned pleas against it, saying it would have a chilling effect on social studies classrooms particularly in teaching current events and stymie districts' work to address racism and equity in schools.

"This will stifle the teaching of huge, important facts about history, which still affect much of our life today," said Clay Robison, the Texas State Teachers Association spokesman. "Teachers and students need and deserve the whole truth about our history, our culture and what our problems are."

But Republican lawmakers championed the bill, which mirrors language being passed in other red states and parrots parts of former President Donald Trump's rescinded executive order targeting "critical race theory."

The bill's author, Rep. Steve Toth, R-The Woodlands, told his Texas House colleagues that the legislation was necessary "at a time when racial tensions are at a boiling point" and that "we don't need to burden our kids with guilt for racial crimes they had nothing to do with."

The current critical race theory debate "misinterprets the intentions of those of us who are working to build more inclusive schools," said Richardson ISD Jeannie Stone.
What does this law prohibit?

While the legislation was labeled an "anti-critical race theory" bill, it doesn't actually contain those words. Instead, it includes a long list of subjects and ideas that must or must not be taught. Critical race theory is an academic framework that explores how racism is embedded in U.S. policies and systems.

Recently, though, conservative pundits and politicians have attempted to conflate it with a slew of other concepts, such as diversity and inclusion efforts, anti-racism training, social justice activism or multicultural curricula.

Teachers can't be "compelled to discuss a particular current event or widely debated and currently controversial issue of public policy or social affairs," according to the new law. In January, for example, teachers grappled with how to properly teach about the U.S. Capitol insurrection and the inauguration of the first female vice president knowing that the topics could be considered controversial but that the issues were on students' minds.

If schools do discuss such issues, they can't give "deference to any one perspective." That provision enraged Democrats, who questioned how teachers should, for example, explore both sides of the deadly white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va.

Teachers also aren't allowed to give credit for students to participate in lobbying or public policy internships. Civics groups say such work prepares students to be engaged citizens and connects what they're learning in the classroom to the real world. But some argue that it inappropriately steers students to activism.

Within social studies classrooms, teachers can't teach a variety of ideas, including that a person is inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, either consciously or unconsciously. This comes as many districts are working on exploring how teachers' unconscious bias the stereotypes people may not be aware they have can negatively affect students of color.

School districts are also prohibited from requiring training that presents any form of race or sex stereotyping or blame on the basis of race or sex.

Dallas Superintendent Michael Hinojosa fears this provision could prevent ongoing districtwide training efforts over cultural competency. The training is part of a larger initiative to address the disparities Black students face at school. Trustees last year unanimously adopted a resolution declaring that Black lives matter.

The 1619 Project a favorite target of conservatives is explicitly called out in the legislation. The New York Times' Pulitzer Prize-winning work sought to reframe American history around slavery's consequences and the contributions of Black people.

The law prohibits teaching that "slavery and racism are anything other than deviations from, betrayals of, or failures to live up to, the authentic founding principles of the United States." Several of the Founding Fathers owned slaves.


Advocates worry conservative lawmakers could tack on the substance of the bill elsewhere before the end of session.
What will this mean inside classrooms?

The language in the bill is vague and subject to interpretation. Education groups worry that ambiguity and fear could stop some teachers from broaching many topics in the classroom.

"We'll have principals in conservative communities who don't want a backlash and will put in place blanket expectations of 'Don't talk about anything controversial in your classroom,''' said Renee Blackmon, president of the Texas Council for the Social Studies. "That way they'll feel like they're safe from community reproach and then teachers are on eggshells."

It's unclear how the law's provisions will be executed, leaving Blackmon concerned about "whack-a-mole enforcement."

Veteran social studies teacher August Plock has taught at Pflugerville High School near Austin for 22 years and feels he has earned the support of his campus leaders, which makes him more comfortable navigating tough issues.

But a young teacher newly out of college may not have the same confidence in current events discussions that could draw pushback from families.

And while Plock acknowledged that each teacher should strive to present a diverse range of perspectives on any controversial topic, he said the legislation could remove debate from the classroom.

He said teachers will have to consider: "Are you willing to present something, knowing that potentially you could get blowback from it? Are you willing to go there?"

Hinojosa worries that "every teacher will be terrified that someone is going to be recording them and turn them into the 'racial police.'"

"That is no way to operate," he said.

Dallas officials have reached out to statewide and national groups for guidance on how educators should proceed as district lawyers evaluate exactly what the bill will mean for teachers and students when it goes into effect.


Dallas school leaders are "doing their homework" on a potential legal battle related to a pair of bills that targets how students are taught about race and racism.
Will there be a legal challenge?

Even before Abbott signed the bill, there were rumblings of potential legal action among civics and education groups.

DISD's Hinojosa was among the most outspoken regarding possible litigation. During a May school board meeting, he noted that district lawyers were "doing their homework" on the bill.

"I don't like to threaten litigation very often, especially not from behind a microphone, but some of us have been talking," he said, alluding to a group of school leaders nationwide who are concerned about similar legislation.

Dallas school leaders were still in the process of reaching out to lawyers and game-planning their response, he said this month.

And district leaders aren't the only ones doing their homework.

"We're investigating potential legal claims," said David Hinojosa, director of the Educational Opportunities Project at the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights, based in Washington, D.C.

What is the role of the State Board of Education?

One section of the new law is quite prescriptive on social studies as it requires specific lessons, such as those on Native Americans and on the history of white supremacy and the ways it is morally wrong.

Some of these curriculum additions were tacked on by Democrats who opposed the overall bill the night the measure passed the House.

But before Texas students see the changes in their classrooms, it will be up to the State Board of Education to incorporate them into curriculum standards. The bill's passage aligns with a process of revamping social studies curricula that is set to start in early 2022 a decade after the process was last completed.

Revamping curriculum typically takes a year, but that could change depending on other factors, said board Chair Keven Ellis, R-Lufkin. A revision of science standards that started in early 2020 is continuing, he noted.

Once the board approves the new standards, members then will have to approve new textbooks and teaching materials. That means changes to social studies curriculum may not be rolled out to students for some time, though the legislation instructs the board to revise the standards by Dec. 31, 2022.

A slow process could be a good thing, said board member Marisa Perez-Diaz, D-Converse, who is hesitant to touch the legislation amid threats of litigation.

"I want to be very, very cautious in terms of what we amend in the current [social studies standards] because we don't know what is going to happen with this bill moving forward," she said.

And Perez-Diaz isn't the only one wary of the bill.

Hardy, the Republican member, does not think critical race theory should be taught in schools but considers this bill neither an effective deterrent nor a way of strengthening civics education. She had hoped the governor would not sign it.

"I think the bill is just that worthless," she said.

What is critical race theory?

The mere insinuation of critical race theory in schools has riled the Legislature, trustee races and board meetings, even as it's often misunderstood.

Critical race theory is a decades-old method of legal analysis that centers on race and racism in the understanding of the country's systems and policies. Discussion of it was long confined to academia.

Among the tenets of critical race theory are that racism is commonplace; that progress for underrepresented groups is encouraged only to the extent that changes benefit the status quo; and that concepts such as colorblindness and meritocracy are myths to be rejected.

In today's political climate, the theory has become a catch-all for a variety of other concepts such as diversity and inclusion efforts, anti-racism training, social justice activism or multicultural curricula. It's derided by many conservatives and often slammed on Fox News.

Salandra Grice, author of The Conscious Educator, said one of the biggest misconceptions about critical race theory is that it is being taught in grade schools.

"Critical race theory is not being taught in K-12 schools," she said during a recent NAACP Dallas panel. "This is not what we do. What are y'all talking about?"
Academic censorship usually doesn't work out well.

It only increases interest in the censored material.

They tried the same with evolution.

When will the Mullahs ever learn?
C. Jordan
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Canon said:

It can be used as a tool to fight against leftist teachers. I would welcome the day a teacher gets fired or jailed for propagandizing children.
They said the same about teachers who taught the theory of evolution.

It's basically the same misguided attempt at censorship.

I loved the general's putdown of pedophile Rick Gaetz on the matter.
Florda_mike
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C. Jordan said:

Canon said:

It can be used as a tool to fight against leftist teachers. I would welcome the day a teacher gets fired or jailed for propagandizing children.
They said the same about teachers who taught the theory of evolution.

It's basically the same misguided attempt at censorship.

I loved the general's putdown of pedophile Rick Gaetz on the matter.


I'm sensing you constantly call Gaetz a pedophile, because you're a pedophile? Does he remind you of yourself?

People often do that
ShooterTX
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Doc Holliday said:

boognish_bear said:

Tucker has the stones to say Milley, a green beret, is not brave. He of course did say it to him directly.


He's a high paid bureaucrat engaged in the systemic creation of war for profit and he knows it.

Don't start believing an alternate reality because it's politically convenient.


I have known 2 generals and almost a dozen colonels over the years. They all did the same things about the pentagon and especially the joint chiefs. Everyone at that level is less of a soldier, and more of a politician.
One of the generals (at that time a major) put it this way: there is a huge difference between Swartzkopf and Powell... one cares about defeating the enemy and the other cares about fighting "the right way". Few true soldiers ever make it at the pentagon, and they never make it to the joint chiefs. The best they can do is make a high ranking general over a major installation or a region. Of the 2 generals, one retired under Obama and the other is currently serving over a major region in the southwest. He knows he has hit his ceiling because he is too outspoken. He won't go along with the political nonsense. He would be gone already, if not for that fact that he is very good and they need him in his position. According to him, there are a lot of colonels with one foot out the door. The reason this general still has a job is that he is really good at keeping these officers from retiring. They like him, but that can only go so far and for so long. In the next 2 years, there will be a ton of turn over in the military... and my buddy will probably be one of those leaving.

The real problem is who is left behind? Probably a lot of "woke" officers who will not hesitate to point their rifles at citizens who aren't "woke" enough.... which has likely been the plan all along.
ShooterTX
boognish_bear
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Sam Lowry
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C. Jordan said:

boognish_bear said:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2021/06/15/gov-abbott-signs-anti-critical-race-theory-bill-into-law-over-objections-from-educators-and-civic-groups/



Gov. Abbott signs 'anti-critical race theory' bill into law over objections from educators and civic groups

Opponents say the Texas law, which goes into effect Sept. 1, will have a chilling effect on schools.

Texas on Tuesday became the latest conservative state to bar certain concepts related to race and racism from being discussed in the classroom, ignoring the passionate objections of educators who say the new law will make it harder for them to teach about America's true past and present.

A bill that legislators say sought to ban "critical race theory" in school but never defined or mentioned the concept explicitly stirred fear among educators that there could be repercussions for broaching current events during class.

Gov. Greg Abbott signed the broad legislation into law without fanfare, according to the Texas Legislature Online service. The law will go into effect in September. The governor's spokeswoman did not respond to The Dallas Morning News' requests for comment Tuesday night.

Now, educators and civics advocates question how the vague language in the bill actually translates into the classroom and whether a legal challenge could strike it down. They'll be closely watching how the State Board of Education takes on the Legislature's mandate and revamps Texas' social studies curriculum.

"We've got a piece-of-junk legislation for us to work with," said Pat Hardy, a Republican member of the State Board of Education and a former history teacher who had hoped Abbott would veto the legislation.

The Legislature approved the bill in the dramatic final days of session after hours of debate and procedural back and forth. Teachers and education groups made impassioned pleas against it, saying it would have a chilling effect on social studies classrooms particularly in teaching current events and stymie districts' work to address racism and equity in schools.

"This will stifle the teaching of huge, important facts about history, which still affect much of our life today," said Clay Robison, the Texas State Teachers Association spokesman. "Teachers and students need and deserve the whole truth about our history, our culture and what our problems are."

But Republican lawmakers championed the bill, which mirrors language being passed in other red states and parrots parts of former President Donald Trump's rescinded executive order targeting "critical race theory."

The bill's author, Rep. Steve Toth, R-The Woodlands, told his Texas House colleagues that the legislation was necessary "at a time when racial tensions are at a boiling point" and that "we don't need to burden our kids with guilt for racial crimes they had nothing to do with."

The current critical race theory debate "misinterprets the intentions of those of us who are working to build more inclusive schools," said Richardson ISD Jeannie Stone.
What does this law prohibit?

While the legislation was labeled an "anti-critical race theory" bill, it doesn't actually contain those words. Instead, it includes a long list of subjects and ideas that must or must not be taught. Critical race theory is an academic framework that explores how racism is embedded in U.S. policies and systems.

Recently, though, conservative pundits and politicians have attempted to conflate it with a slew of other concepts, such as diversity and inclusion efforts, anti-racism training, social justice activism or multicultural curricula.

Teachers can't be "compelled to discuss a particular current event or widely debated and currently controversial issue of public policy or social affairs," according to the new law. In January, for example, teachers grappled with how to properly teach about the U.S. Capitol insurrection and the inauguration of the first female vice president knowing that the topics could be considered controversial but that the issues were on students' minds.

If schools do discuss such issues, they can't give "deference to any one perspective." That provision enraged Democrats, who questioned how teachers should, for example, explore both sides of the deadly white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va.

Teachers also aren't allowed to give credit for students to participate in lobbying or public policy internships. Civics groups say such work prepares students to be engaged citizens and connects what they're learning in the classroom to the real world. But some argue that it inappropriately steers students to activism.

Within social studies classrooms, teachers can't teach a variety of ideas, including that a person is inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, either consciously or unconsciously. This comes as many districts are working on exploring how teachers' unconscious bias the stereotypes people may not be aware they have can negatively affect students of color.

School districts are also prohibited from requiring training that presents any form of race or sex stereotyping or blame on the basis of race or sex.

Dallas Superintendent Michael Hinojosa fears this provision could prevent ongoing districtwide training efforts over cultural competency. The training is part of a larger initiative to address the disparities Black students face at school. Trustees last year unanimously adopted a resolution declaring that Black lives matter.

The 1619 Project a favorite target of conservatives is explicitly called out in the legislation. The New York Times' Pulitzer Prize-winning work sought to reframe American history around slavery's consequences and the contributions of Black people.

The law prohibits teaching that "slavery and racism are anything other than deviations from, betrayals of, or failures to live up to, the authentic founding principles of the United States." Several of the Founding Fathers owned slaves.


Advocates worry conservative lawmakers could tack on the substance of the bill elsewhere before the end of session.
What will this mean inside classrooms?

The language in the bill is vague and subject to interpretation. Education groups worry that ambiguity and fear could stop some teachers from broaching many topics in the classroom.

"We'll have principals in conservative communities who don't want a backlash and will put in place blanket expectations of 'Don't talk about anything controversial in your classroom,''' said Renee Blackmon, president of the Texas Council for the Social Studies. "That way they'll feel like they're safe from community reproach and then teachers are on eggshells."

It's unclear how the law's provisions will be executed, leaving Blackmon concerned about "whack-a-mole enforcement."

Veteran social studies teacher August Plock has taught at Pflugerville High School near Austin for 22 years and feels he has earned the support of his campus leaders, which makes him more comfortable navigating tough issues.

But a young teacher newly out of college may not have the same confidence in current events discussions that could draw pushback from families.

And while Plock acknowledged that each teacher should strive to present a diverse range of perspectives on any controversial topic, he said the legislation could remove debate from the classroom.

He said teachers will have to consider: "Are you willing to present something, knowing that potentially you could get blowback from it? Are you willing to go there?"

Hinojosa worries that "every teacher will be terrified that someone is going to be recording them and turn them into the 'racial police.'"

"That is no way to operate," he said.

Dallas officials have reached out to statewide and national groups for guidance on how educators should proceed as district lawyers evaluate exactly what the bill will mean for teachers and students when it goes into effect.


Dallas school leaders are "doing their homework" on a potential legal battle related to a pair of bills that targets how students are taught about race and racism.
Will there be a legal challenge?

Even before Abbott signed the bill, there were rumblings of potential legal action among civics and education groups.

DISD's Hinojosa was among the most outspoken regarding possible litigation. During a May school board meeting, he noted that district lawyers were "doing their homework" on the bill.

"I don't like to threaten litigation very often, especially not from behind a microphone, but some of us have been talking," he said, alluding to a group of school leaders nationwide who are concerned about similar legislation.

Dallas school leaders were still in the process of reaching out to lawyers and game-planning their response, he said this month.

And district leaders aren't the only ones doing their homework.

"We're investigating potential legal claims," said David Hinojosa, director of the Educational Opportunities Project at the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights, based in Washington, D.C.

What is the role of the State Board of Education?

One section of the new law is quite prescriptive on social studies as it requires specific lessons, such as those on Native Americans and on the history of white supremacy and the ways it is morally wrong.

Some of these curriculum additions were tacked on by Democrats who opposed the overall bill the night the measure passed the House.

But before Texas students see the changes in their classrooms, it will be up to the State Board of Education to incorporate them into curriculum standards. The bill's passage aligns with a process of revamping social studies curricula that is set to start in early 2022 a decade after the process was last completed.

Revamping curriculum typically takes a year, but that could change depending on other factors, said board Chair Keven Ellis, R-Lufkin. A revision of science standards that started in early 2020 is continuing, he noted.

Once the board approves the new standards, members then will have to approve new textbooks and teaching materials. That means changes to social studies curriculum may not be rolled out to students for some time, though the legislation instructs the board to revise the standards by Dec. 31, 2022.

A slow process could be a good thing, said board member Marisa Perez-Diaz, D-Converse, who is hesitant to touch the legislation amid threats of litigation.

"I want to be very, very cautious in terms of what we amend in the current [social studies standards] because we don't know what is going to happen with this bill moving forward," she said.

And Perez-Diaz isn't the only one wary of the bill.

Hardy, the Republican member, does not think critical race theory should be taught in schools but considers this bill neither an effective deterrent nor a way of strengthening civics education. She had hoped the governor would not sign it.

"I think the bill is just that worthless," she said.

What is critical race theory?

The mere insinuation of critical race theory in schools has riled the Legislature, trustee races and board meetings, even as it's often misunderstood.

Critical race theory is a decades-old method of legal analysis that centers on race and racism in the understanding of the country's systems and policies. Discussion of it was long confined to academia.

Among the tenets of critical race theory are that racism is commonplace; that progress for underrepresented groups is encouraged only to the extent that changes benefit the status quo; and that concepts such as colorblindness and meritocracy are myths to be rejected.

In today's political climate, the theory has become a catch-all for a variety of other concepts such as diversity and inclusion efforts, anti-racism training, social justice activism or multicultural curricula. It's derided by many conservatives and often slammed on Fox News.

Salandra Grice, author of The Conscious Educator, said one of the biggest misconceptions about critical race theory is that it is being taught in grade schools.

"Critical race theory is not being taught in K-12 schools," she said during a recent NAACP Dallas panel. "This is not what we do. What are y'all talking about?"
Academic censorship usually doesn't work out well.

It only increases interest in the censored material.

They tried the same with evolution.

When will the Mullahs ever learn?
The fact that it annoys right-wingers is about the only thing CRT has in common with any kind of science. That's not a good enough reason to teach it in schools.
Canon
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boognish_bear said:




LOLOLOLOLOL!!! Read about the so called 'experts' in the article. Grievance studies profs.
Redbrickbear
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Doc Holliday
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Redbrickbear said:



Lol
quash
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Florda_mike said:

Doc Holliday said:

boognish_bear said:

Tucker has the stones to say Milley, a green beret, is not brave. He of course did say it to him directly.


He's a high paid bureaucrat engaged in the systemic creation of war for profit and he knows it.

Don't start believing an alternate reality because it's politically convenient.


Yes, an unelected unfirable pos destroying our country from within


But enough about Putin...
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
quash
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https://www.arcdigital.media/p/laws-aimed-at-banning-critical-race

Good article with some practical suggestions.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
HuMcK
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Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...
fadskier
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Porteroso said:

While I agree CRT shouldn't be taught in schools, the bill makes illegal for a teacher to teach that slavery and racism are anything but deviations from the founding fathers' principles. How ignorant is that lol?

And if you're going to ban CRT, ban CRT, not some generic "you can't talk about race anymore." Bill is a train wreck, but it apparently used enough Trumpian language to satisfy Trump lovers, and that's all Texas Repubs care about.
This bill doesn't make teachers teach anything or forbid teachers from teaching anything. The district can't make them.
Canon
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HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.
quash
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Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Canon
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quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.
quash
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Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Canon
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quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.



As you know, but dishonestly ignore, CRT is not banned. Only using the mandatory coercive mechanisms of government to push it on children is forbidden and only, so far, in Texas.

You would rape the minds of children with racist hatred, using the coercive force of government and celebrate that rape. That makes you a bad person.
quash
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Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.



As you know, but dishonestly ignore, CRT is not banned. Only using the mandatory coercive mechanisms of government to push it on children is forbidden and only, so far, in Texas.

You would rape the minds of children with racist hatred, using the coercive force of government and celebrate that rape. That makes you a bad person

LOL. what bull***** Using the power of the state to ban ideas within the parameters of state power is still a ban. Not unlike what HuMcK pointed to in Russia. Fortunately, American government does not have the broad powers of Russia. Keep banning ideas, however, and we may get there based on your logic in another post.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Canon
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quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.



As you know, but dishonestly ignore, CRT is not banned. Only using the mandatory coercive mechanisms of government to push it on children is forbidden and only, so far, in Texas.

You would rape the minds of children with racist hatred, using the coercive force of government and celebrate that rape. That makes you a bad person

LOL. what bull***** Using the power of the state to ban ideas within the parameters of state power is still a ban. Not unlike what HuMcK pointed to in Russia. Fortunately, American government does not have the broad powers of Russia. Keep banning ideas, however, and we may get there based on your logic in another post.


Government 'banning' what government can do? LOLOLOLOLOL! That's incredibly stupid. Congratulations. You are not nearly as smart as I gave you credit for.
D. C. Bear
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quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.



Indoctrinating Kindergartners with Marxist tripe is wrong, too.
Porteroso
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We can argue about that if we want, but can we agree that making it illegal for teachers to talk about it is a step too far? The obvious argument is that founding fathers didn't consider blacks, and other minorities, to be human. We might cling to "all men are created equal" now, but early America obviously didn't.

I'm ok with the idea that the founding fathers often wrote ideals into the Constitution that they knew they weren't personally capable of, or that the country wasn't quite ready for. But I can't blame anyone who thinks that slavery was baked into the founding principles, as vigorously as it was defended, and as long as the government dehumanized African Americans.
quash
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D. C. Bear said:

quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.



Indoctrinating Kindergartners with Marxist tripe is wrong, too.

OK.

Do you support laws that ban what can be taught in school? You OK with banning the teaching of the bible in public schools?


“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
D. C. Bear
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quash said:

D. C. Bear said:

quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.



Indoctrinating Kindergartners with Marxist tripe is wrong, too.

OK.

Do you support laws that ban what can be taught in school? You OK with banning the teaching of the bible in public schools?




Decisions have to be made about what will be taught in public schools whether any of us "support" it or not. Those decisions cannot be made by individual teachers.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.

Making no exceptions even for what is taught to children in public school is what makes your position to be foolish and extremist nonsense.
jupiter
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It's also why public schools don't work in the first place....
quash
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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.

Making no exceptions even for what is taught to children in public school is what makes your opinion a whole lot of foolish and extremist nonsense.


Some of you operate under the delusion that schools will teach anything if not restrained by state law. You're wrong.

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
jupiter
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Quote:

Public Schooling Battle Map



Americans are diverse ethnically, religiously, ideologically but all must pay for public schools. The intention is good: to bring people together and foster harmony. But rather than build bridges, public schooling often forces people into wrenching, zerosum conflict.

This map aggregates a relatively small, but especially painful, subset of battles: those involving basic rights, moral values, or individual identities. Think creationism versus evolution, or assigned readings containing racial slurs. The conflicts are often intensely personal, and guarantee if one fundamental value wins, another loses.
The goal may be peace and equality, but the outcome is too often the opposite.
Incidents are continually added. Note that some years contain very few conflicts because we list the year a conflict started, but we only started cataloging in the mid2000s. Earlier years reflect conflicts that had a new development after we started collecting data.




https://www.cato.org/education-fight-map
BusyTarpDuster2017
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quash said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.

Making no exceptions even for what is taught to children in public school is what makes your position to be foolish and extremist nonsense.


Some of you operate under the delusion that schools will teach anything if not restrained by state law. You're wrong.


Right or wrong, how does that invalidate the idea of enabling the state to restrict what is taught to children?

It doesn't.
ATL Bear
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Defining school curriculum for public schools by state and local governments has nothing to do with making ideas or thought illegal. It's been a local politics issue for decades. Not sure why that is so hard to understand, And bad ideas should be thrown on the scrap heap. Doesn't make them illegal in the sense of thought police, just makes them bad ideas, and publicly perceived as bad ideas.
ATL Bear
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Rawhide said:

bear2be2 said:

quash said:

bear2be2 said:

Rawhide said:

bear2be2 said:

Doc Holliday said:

bear2be2 said:

Doc Holliday said:

bear2be2 said:

Canon said:

Sounds good. We need to weed Marxists out of our country, particularly in positions where they can propagandize children and young people.

Marxism is the thought that stops thought.
I'm very much a free market guy. I don't believe socialism works in practice. But I'm not the least bit surprised by its growth in popularity among people who have correctly determined that our current economic system, which has allowed lobbiests to circumvent the market and corporations to win without playing by the rules, isn't working for them.
What you fail to realize is socialism, big government or leftist policies allow the ultra rich to thrive.

You don't understand how they use government against the middle class, small and midsize business.
It's not Marxism that has put us in our current situation. It's unchecked greed and a culture that is largely accepting/approving of it.

Marxism is the reaction, not the action. And as misguided as it is IMO, it's completely understandable given the current state of our economy.
Individual Wealth and buying power has nearly increased 5000% since the mid 1800's. It's not living conditions or access to materialism, housing or goods that's the issue. So no, that's not what's understandable.

What's going on today is cultural envy. The wealth gap has grown and the masses want a piece of that pie with absolutely no regard to personal responsibility.

People today have more opportunity than ever before and they're simply refusing to capitalize on it. The ultra rich are taking advantage of their perverted view on our government and economy.

You're just enabling the corporate oligarchy you decry here with this pseudo defense of the status quo.

It's not cultural envy. There has always been a wealth gap in this country, and we've navigated it to this point without many significant hiccups. What makes this period different is that the gap is wider than it's ever been and was "achieved" nefariously.

The American dream narrative works when most of your population feels they're being given a fair opportunity to achieve it. We've proven for generations that we can accept income inequality (an inevitability of capitalist -- and really any -- society) if we feel everyone is playing by the same rules.

The problem now is that that is not the case. Winners and losers are being picked before the game even starts, and rather than call out the cheating players, we waste time on forums like this defending the game.

The game is fine when played by the rules. But when you rig it in a way that is clear as day to the others at the table, they're going to leave and find something else to play.
How has Jeff Bezos achieved his wealth nefariously? Bill Gates, Steve Jobs/Apple, Walton Family? As far as I can tell, they created a business or product that people wanted and profited from it.

What's your definition of "the wealthy"... what does the wealthy look like to you?
Go look at Jeff Bezos' taxes and tell me he's played by the same rules you and I have.

He has. His $82k annual salary gets taxed like everybody else who makes $82k a year.

Any tax code that allows the richest man on earth and owner of a corporation that hauled in $382 billion in revenue last year to claim $82k in income is broken beyond repair. And if you disagree, you and I will never see eye to eye on this issue.

But if, like many libertarians, you view taxes of any kind as theft, that's likely a given.
The problem isn't Bezos and he didn't earn his money nefariously.... He's followed tax law. Sounds like we need a tax overhaul... but don't try to say Bezos became successful by being crook when all he's done is followed the rules.

We should demand tax overhaul - completely and not this if you make over $400K BS... I mean a complete overhaul of how we are taxed.

I was gifted 500 shares of stock when I got married 25 years ago. I haven't sold it and won't sell it until I retire. The stock has done okay and even split a few times... Am I a crook because I don't have to pay taxes on it since I haven't sold it?

If I bought a house for $300K and sold it 10 years later for $500K, am I a crook for not paying taxes on the $200K profit since the tax laws say I don't have to?

Let me add with Amazon that they lost money for decades. They started finally making serious profits in the last 5 years. They've got massive loss carry forwards they're still using which impact their net tax bill.

No one *****es about the tax bill when they're losing money through the investments made to become the retail and web services giant they are today, but as soon as you reap the rewards from that and you try to recover some of that investment through tax reductions of losses, the know-nothings start complaining about the evil tax avoiding corporation.
Canon
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jupiter said:

Quote:

Public Schooling Battle Map



Americans are diverse ethnically, religiously, ideologically but all must pay for public schools. The intention is good: to bring people together and foster harmony. But rather than build bridges, public schooling often forces people into wrenching, zerosum conflict.

This map aggregates a relatively small, but especially painful, subset of battles: those involving basic rights, moral values, or individual identities. Think creationism versus evolution, or assigned readings containing racial slurs. The conflicts are often intensely personal, and guarantee if one fundamental value wins, another loses.
The goal may be peace and equality, but the outcome is too often the opposite.
Incidents are continually added. Note that some years contain very few conflicts because we list the year a conflict started, but we only started cataloging in the mid2000s. Earlier years reflect conflicts that had a new development after we started collecting data.




https://www.cato.org/education-fight-map



That's an absurd map. It includes the kids who brought a fake bomb to school as though it's some religious violation. I expect nothing less from CATO,
Rawhide
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quash said:

Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

HuMcK said:

Gee, doesn't that sound familiar...


No.

You should adjust your settings, somehow the notion of the state banning ideas fails to register on your screen.



My settings are fine. Preventing leftist politicians from using state mandated educational institutions to indoctrinate kids into racism is not remotely like preventing free people from expressing their opinions privately. If you want a parallel to Putin, look to Facebook and Twitter.

Banning ideas is wrong no matter what ideology you fear.

It's not as simple as you see it (not surprised). You're forgetting the educating "our children" part. Or do you think that gov't run education systems should be able to teach your kid whatever they want, whether it's factual or not, without your say and with no regard to your wishes?

As self proclaimed "libertarian", you should be all for citizens (and especially parents) restricting what the gov't can or can't do or can and can't teach.

Power to the people, little man.

Besides, the United States ranks 31st out of 79 countries in math. Maybe our public education system should spend more time focusing on getting those numbers up and less time teaching non-factual racuak theories to elementary school children.

If you want to discuss theories and philosophy we have a whole system of higher education that is completely voluntarily to pursue.
 
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