TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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MidWestBear2010 said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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MidWestBear2010 said:

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If letting Briles go had anything to do with loyalty then our BOR is full of egotistical maniacs and they need to step down immediately.

But my guess is it had nothing to do with that and you are full of it.

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If you had the balls to believe what you just wrote there, and clearly you don't, you wouldn't have used the word, "GUESS."


Here, watch how I do it. "I''m pretty f'ing sure that a big reason they parted ways was broken trust."

See how that works? That you're tiptoeing there tells me all I need to know about how confident you are.

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Oh so you know exactly why Briles was fired? That would make you the only person on this site with that information and means that you are either on the board or closely associated with it.

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Please. Please tell me you aren't a Baylor grad. That's all I ask of this exchange.

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I like how you resort to insults instead of actually refuting anything I've said.

Mothra said:

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Moderators locked the previous thread that was discussing this topic, suggesting it had been discussed a thousand times (though I must have missed those threads). I am not interested in another debate among the pro-CAB and anti-CAB crowd on whether he should have been fired. As a lawyer, I am truly curious, however, what evidence there is the CAB staff covered up rapes, as BeerThief suggested. Another poster suggested BeerThief is privy to info. Care to share it?

---

I've no desire to read six pages of this. So, I'll just answer the OP.

It is very similar to global warming. there's not really proof, just a consensus.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Osodecentx said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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That event, and how it was handled was a wake up call that for reasons good and bad, right or wrong, Art had no loyalty to Baylor U.

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This isn't true

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I guess we need him to write another book about it? He seems unable to say it in public since he's gone.

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How many books has he written?

No proof whatsoever.

Who fires the most successful coach in school history, and can't give you a straight answer why he was fired, and every time some "reason" is broached it doesn't hold water? What does common sense tell you about that? If he really "needed to be fired," it should be easy to say why.

George Truett said:

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Mothra said:

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Moderators locked the previous thread that was discussing this topic, suggesting it had been discussed a thousand times (though I must have missed those threads). I am not interested in another debate among the pro-CAB and anti-CAB crowd on whether he should have been fired. As a lawyer, I am truly curious, however, what evidence there is the CAB staff covered up rapes, as BeerThief suggested. Another poster suggested BeerThief is privy to info. Care to share it?

---

This has been discussed ad nauseum, ad infinitum, ad absurdum, so I hope this thread gets locked too.

For the millionth time, he wasn't fired for covering up rapes. He was fired for not following university and Title IX procedures. If you guys would actually take the time to read the PH report, you would understand this. You can't seem to separate media charges from what the BOR fired him for.

Briles needed to be gone, pure and simple. The whole world agrees except for a handful of delusional people who post here.

One of his problems is that his defenses for his actions have been completely unbelievable and tone deaf. Every time he's spoken to the media, things have gotten worse for him. Plus, he hasn't fared well in court. If he had any defense at all, he would be coaching somewhere right now. You can't put that on the BOR. He owns that.

Time to move on and quit beating a dead horse.

---

Yet you just wrote 5 paragraphs.

George,

While I honestly doubt his actions, inactions and dumb delegation of responsibility are not unique among college football head coaches, I have come to agree it was time to move on and I understand why Briles no longer coaches at Baylor. Two wrongs don't make a right. He messed up. He's not an evil man as some make him to be, but he messed up and is suffering the consequences for the rest of his life.

Please consider this: many of us who have followed Baylor a long time simply have a tough time understanding why Briles was (a) paid a large sum of money by Baylor for his silence and, more importantly, (b) why not a single member of the BOR or senior administration during the relevant times has either accepted responsibility or come to the defense of the innocent, i. e., the innocent players who had nothing to do with this mess, but bear guilt by association since no one came to their defense.

It appears from my perch that there has been a lot of CYA going on by culpable folks....and for me, that's the part that is the hardest to take.

I was taught by my parents to accept responsibility. Had more of that been done by those in leadership positions, many of us would have an easier time "moving on".

Osodecentx said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Osodecentx said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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That event, and how it was handled was a wake up call that for reasons good and bad, right or wrong, Art had no loyalty to Baylor U.

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This isn't true

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I guess we need him to write another book about it? He seems unable to say it in public since he's gone.

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How many books has he written?

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This is mostly likely where the 0/0 fits.

OldSchoolBU said:

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Some of you on here don't have much common sense? Who fires the most successful coach in school history and a wildly popular one with the fanbase unless they had to?

No one. Let that common sense test comfort you in your moments of conspiratorial psychosis. And yes the past is last. Move on or go buy some Florida Atlantic shirts and go all in with that win at all costs program.

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They had to because the media forced them too. Why would they fire him yet hide the truth as to what really happened? That's like saying yea you did the crime and your guilty but never actually putting up evidence to prove your accusations. And no them saying he did it doesn't bear ANY weight.

what did they hide and how do you know it?

Keyser Soze said:

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what did they hide and how do you know it?

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To answer your question, the number of sexual assaults campus-wide for years 2011 to 2015. This was noted in a recording of Patty Crawford as football being 10% of the total number.

I think they also hid why they paid him anything then turned around and made him the rape version of Adolf Hitler to college football fans. Coaches get fired for cause for less than they painted him to be relatively often.

There was a reason the President of the University was fired too. I wouldn't say that was hidden at all.

No one from Baylor painted him in that light - just more made up BS

Keyser Soze said:

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No one from Baylor painted him in that light - just more made up BS

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You called...

Keyser Soze said:

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There was a reason the President of the University was fired too. I wouldn't say that was hidden at all.

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Again.. Why have various board members not stepped down and why have the recommendations about the board governance not been implemented yesterday?

All 105 recommendations from PH have been materially implemented

Don't hold your breath on any resignations

As to your first reply, we can agree to disagree on this, but I do think the board's handling of the situation did contribute to the PR firestorm. Literally every football fan I've talked to or seen post anywhere online thinks that Briles should be in jail. I've seen people on the internet openly talk about how they think he deserves a violent death. I've had a few question why Baylor is still allowed to operate. Maybe you don't think there is anything that they could have done to avoid that being the opinion of random people. I don't agree. They could have been far more specific in the reasoning behind the firing. They left more than plenty of room for random fans to assume that Briles was actively and knowingly harboring rapists and that is exactly what random fans think happened.

As to this post-

I just can't take any bragging about getting the recommendations in place seriously at all. The board oversaw all of this. If they didn't know that Starr wasn't keeping up with Title IX well enough, shame on them. There are more than 30 of them. There was an athletics compliance sub-committee. If we had a sub-committee on athletics issues and none on Title IX compliance and campus security, shame on our board. Surely some of the more than 30 of them had heard of the 100+ schools with Title IX problems before ours came up. If none of them had, shame on them for not keeping up with university news. Don't brag to me about trying to put out a fire that started on your watch.

Our school is poorly run. I won't be sending my kids there. I grew up on the campus. I wish I could have more faith in the people who run the school. I have no reason to think that I should.

LBKBEAR said:

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As to your first reply, we can agree to disagree on this, but I do think the board's handling of the situation did contribute to the PR firestorm. Literally every football fan I've talked to or seen post anywhere online thinks that Briles should be in jail. I've seen people on the internet openly talk about how they think he deserves a violent death. I've had a few question why Baylor is still allowed to operate. Maybe you don't think there is anything that they could have done to avoid that being the opinion of random people. I don't agree. They could have been far more specific in the reasoning behind the firing. They left more than plenty of room for random fans to assume that Briles was actively and knowingly harboring rapists and that is exactly what random fans think happened.

As to this post-

I just can't take any bragging about getting the recommendations in place seriously at all. The board oversaw all of this. If they didn't know that Starr wasn't keeping up with Title IX well enough, shame on them. There are more than 30 of them. There was an athletics compliance sub-committee. If we had a sub-committee on athletics issues and none on Title IX compliance and campus security, shame on our board. Surely some of the more than 30 of them had heard of the 100+ schools with Title IX problems before ours came up. If none of them had, shame on them for not keeping up with university news. Don't brag to me about trying to put out a fire that started on your watch.

Our school is poorly run. I won't be sending my kids there. I grew up on the campus. I wish I could have more faith in the people who run the school. I have no reason to think that I should.

---

I'm sorry, but this is sort of ridiculous. If your BOR is super up-to-date on Title IX prior to 2015, it's becauee you've ****ed up HUGE.

It's amazing that people can give Briles a walk on Title IX responsibities, but blame 30 fundraisers that meet 6 times a year for not knowing intricate details on a law their own University President refused to engage in.

Title IX and OCR worry mostly about being "put on notice" and what you do after that point. When the BOR was finally made aware of the details, they acted.

BrooksBearLives said:

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LBKBEAR said:

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As to your first reply, we can agree to disagree on this, but I do think the board's handling of the situation did contribute to the PR firestorm. Literally every football fan I've talked to or seen post anywhere online thinks that Briles should be in jail. I've seen people on the internet openly talk about how they think he deserves a violent death. I've had a few question why Baylor is still allowed to operate. Maybe you don't think there is anything that they could have done to avoid that being the opinion of random people. I don't agree. They could have been far more specific in the reasoning behind the firing. They left more than plenty of room for random fans to assume that Briles was actively and knowingly harboring rapists and that is exactly what random fans think happened.

As to this post-

I just can't take any bragging about getting the recommendations in place seriously at all. The board oversaw all of this. If they didn't know that Starr wasn't keeping up with Title IX well enough, shame on them. There are more than 30 of them. There was an athletics compliance sub-committee. If we had a sub-committee on athletics issues and none on Title IX compliance and campus security, shame on our board. Surely some of the more than 30 of them had heard of the 100+ schools with Title IX problems before ours came up. If none of them had, shame on them for not keeping up with university news. Don't brag to me about trying to put out a fire that started on your watch.

Our school is poorly run. I won't be sending my kids there. I grew up on the campus. I wish I could have more faith in the people who run the school. I have no reason to think that I should.

---

I'm sorry, but this is sort of ridiculous. If your BOR is super up-to-date on Title IX prior to 2015, it's becauee you've ****ed up HUGE.

It's amazing that people can give Briles a walk on Title IX responsibities, but blame 30 fundraisers that meet 6 times a year for not knowing intricate details on a law their own University President refused to engage in.

Title IX and OCR worry mostly about being "put on notice" and what you do after that point. When the BOR was finally made aware of the details, they acted.

---

The letter went out in 2011. 55 schools were announced as being under investigation in 2014.

How many industries have major compliance changes that the governing board is unaware of 4-5 years after the changes are announced?

This might well be a surprise to you, but I do think that some would guess that a football coach would know less about university compliance issues than the people in charge of governing the university.

If they are only fundraisers and aren't interested in helping run the school, get them out. We need people asking the right questions. If they only ask the right questions after the school is in a firestorm, they serve no purpose and aren't worthy of getting the fancy title they love to brag about in the good times.

Your middle paragraph just actually makes me more worried about the board. Shouldn't the board be all over it if the university president is openly ignoring a federal regulation relating to students being raped? If they aren't, why in the world are they there? Were they just thinking 'Oh well Ken is just ignoring the regs about rape, so I guess don't ask any questions there.'?

Last edit on this post - the number of people I have seen trying to say the board isn't at fault for anything that happened because they didn't actually didn't do anything blows my mind. I'm relatively young, but I've never heard anyone use the excuse 'I couldn't have done a bad job, because I wasn't doing the job at all.' outside of people saying that here for the board.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Dungeon Athletics said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Malbec said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Robemcdo said:

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The answer is as obvious as you can get . 0/7. Art is telling the truth .

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Your desperate to hold on to the notion that Art was somehow wronged and you're trying really hard to frame this in a manner that suggests legally innocent means he deserves to be employed.

That's just not how organizations of humans work. It's also the exact same reason no one wants to hire Briles, Bobby Knight and a long list of other coaches that think they are bigger than their organizations.

Organizations of all kinds have little tolerance for people that can't be loyal. And yes, that's also the reason why people that sometimes suck at their jobs never get the axe. The more you take from the company, the louder you'd better sing the company song.

Art basically fired himself when two things happened. 1) he was caught halfway down the wedding aisle with UT. 2) he was called out by Kim Mulkey.

Kim Mulkey used the media to call Art out and what did Art do? Nothing. That signaled to the rest of the university that he didn't care. After the Fiesta bowl, Art needed a donor to bring him back to the fold and he negotiated a pay raise of 50% more than his peers. Meanwhile, his competitor Gary Patterson up the road is winning at about the same rate, AND hs using his influence to raise money for TCU, the TCU football program, the TCU music program and about five other departments in that affluenza college.

What does Briles do to help Baylor outside of football? was he at any fundraising events? Is he calling anyone? Donating time to a charity? Nothing that anyone is aware of.

He's hiring his son in law, his old coaching buddy's son, promoting his son to offensive coordinator. And those guys in turn go hide in their holes half the year like their faithful leader.

now that's not the end of the world if you're winning lots of games and making the school look good.

But when you suddenly put the university in a bad light, all that taking you've done up to this point has now come full circle.

You can make all the legal case you want out if it, and I'm sure that means something to the apparent army of attorneys on this site.But know that Art was probably (meaning in my opinion) fired because the attitude he conveyed to the board was that it was his way or nothing.

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So then fire him for his attitude with the Board. Fire him for his flirtation with Texas. Fire him for loose discipline of his players. Fire him for not attending fundraising events. Fire him for hiring relatives. Fire him for bad scheduling. But, don't fire him for any of those reasons and then tell the world (or let the world think) it was for something as heinous as the narrative the BOR has assigned to him. That is immoral and stupid to boot.

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Btw if we fired him for any of those reasons instead of working other disciplinary angles we are huge dumbasses with no sense of cost benefit or proportionality.

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I don't agree with MakeItRain, I mean TellMeYouLoveMe's theory about the reasons for Briles' firing, but the second part of your statement is 100% correct nonetheless. And he's definitely right about one thing - it was a decision guided largely by pride and arrogance. And we all know what pride goes before. We're living it now.

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Say hi to John Hawk for us, I mean Bobo, I mean...oh whatever the fat kid's name is at that law firm..

I can see why they were upset, law firms lose out when they don't have a referral source working in the athletic circles to give them cases. I''ll bet Shillinglaw had those guys on speed dial!

---

LOL. Well, I know who none of those people are. I'm no one you know, and I have no idea who you are in real life. There was exactly one person on BaylorFans claiming Art was fired for flirting with UT and now there's one person here, so I made an assumption...

Just to get us back to the OP question, the answer is still "there is no such evidence."

LBKBEAR said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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LBKBEAR said:

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As to your first reply, we can agree to disagree on this, but I do think the board's handling of the situation did contribute to the PR firestorm. Literally every football fan I've talked to or seen post anywhere online thinks that Briles should be in jail. I've seen people on the internet openly talk about how they think he deserves a violent death. I've had a few question why Baylor is still allowed to operate. Maybe you don't think there is anything that they could have done to avoid that being the opinion of random people. I don't agree. They could have been far more specific in the reasoning behind the firing. They left more than plenty of room for random fans to assume that Briles was actively and knowingly harboring rapists and that is exactly what random fans think happened.

As to this post-

I just can't take any bragging about getting the recommendations in place seriously at all. The board oversaw all of this. If they didn't know that Starr wasn't keeping up with Title IX well enough, shame on them. There are more than 30 of them. There was an athletics compliance sub-committee. If we had a sub-committee on athletics issues and none on Title IX compliance and campus security, shame on our board. Surely some of the more than 30 of them had heard of the 100+ schools with Title IX problems before ours came up. If none of them had, shame on them for not keeping up with university news. Don't brag to me about trying to put out a fire that started on your watch.

Our school is poorly run. I won't be sending my kids there. I grew up on the campus. I wish I could have more faith in the people who run the school. I have no reason to think that I should.

---

I'm sorry, but this is sort of ridiculous. If your BOR is super up-to-date on Title IX prior to 2015, it's becauee you've ****ed up HUGE.

It's amazing that people can give Briles a walk on Title IX responsibities, but blame 30 fundraisers that meet 6 times a year for not knowing intricate details on a law their own University President refused to engage in.

Title IX and OCR worry mostly about being "put on notice" and what you do after that point. When the BOR was finally made aware of the details, they acted.

---

The letter went out in 2011. 55 schools were announced as being under investigation in 2014.

How many industries have major compliance changes that the governing board is unaware of 4-5 years after the changes are announced?

This might well be a surprise to you, but I do think that some would guess that a football coach would know less about university compliance issues than the people in charge of governing the university.

If they are only fundraisers and aren't interested in helping run the school, get them out. We need people asking the right questions. If they only ask the right questions after the school is in a firestorm, they serve no purpose and aren't worthy of getting the fancy title they love to brag about in the good times.

Your middle paragraph just actually makes me more worried about the board. Shouldn't the board be all over it if the university president is openly ignoring a federal regulation relating to students being raped? If they aren't, why in the world are they there? Were they just thinking 'Oh well Ken is just ignoring the regs about rape, so I guess don't ask any questions there.'?

Last edit on this post - the number of people I have seen trying to say the board isn't at fault for anything that happened because they didn't actually didn't do anything blows my mind. I'm relatively young, but I've never heard anyone use the excuse 'I couldn't have done a bad job, because I wasn't doing the job at all.' outside of people saying that here for the board.

---

lol. Your post is like me (little mechanical ability) taking my car in for service and lecturing the mechanic on the problem with the engine, how to fix it, the manufacturing problems in auto plants in general, amd the engineering flaws of the engine.

While one of the jobs of the board is to put out fires, another job is to ensure that fire prevention methods and materials have been used from the beginning.

The fire inspector doesn't have to be a home builder, he just needs to know where/how to find the key indicators.


The Baylor BOR gave everything to RR it seems while having no checks and balances in place. They allowed RR to happen over a period of years. These negligent farces of leadership were preceded by other negligent farces of leadership. This was years in the making. And yet, with all that great brainpower at work, no one took a stand and said this is wrong.

Every B school in the country can use this scenario for years and years to come to educate about responsibilities of boards. These guys made their mark on the world.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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While one of the jobs of the board is to put out fires, another job is to ensure that fire prevention methods and materials have been used from the beginning.

The fire inspector doesn't have to be a home builder, he just needs to know where/how to find the key indicators.


The Baylor BOR gave everything to RR it seems while having no checks and balances in place. They allowed RR to happen over a period of years. These negligent farces of leadership were preceded by other negligent farces of leadership. This was years in the making. And yet, with all that great brainpower at work, no one took a stand and said this is wrong.

Every B school in the country can use this scenario for years and years to come to educate about responsibilities of boards. These guys made their mark on the world.

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I think that RR gave the board exactly what they wanted. But I have ZERO proof of that. And CABers demand proof. So, I can't help you.

Malbec said:

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Who fires the most successful coach in school history, and can't give you a straight answer why he was fired, and every time some "reason" is broached it doesn't hold water? What does common sense tell you about that? If he really "needed to be fired," it should be easy to say why.

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Chanceux said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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Chanceux said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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Chanceux said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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xiledinok said:

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Quote:

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Outside the bubble, people think Art ran an exotic zoo park with dangerous lions and tigers.

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That's what our BOR told everyone.

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Art didn't do himself any favors with the bad dudes comment. I reckon there was lots of stupid on both sides. Its a shame that nobody recognized how much money was on the line. Tellme is right that it coulda been fixed a long time ago. Both sides coulda done or said something here and there to lay down a good foundation. Neither did.

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Yeah, loss of some money was the greatest shame...

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Ain't what I said. And don't try putting words in my mouth again. You understand that? That aint a joke. Don't you ever f'n do that again.

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It's in bold letters above, it's EXACTLY what you lamented, the loss of money.

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Greatest shame? Did I say that? So I'm gonna tell you again for good measure. Do not put words in my mouth. Do you understand that? Never again will you do that. I'm not gonna put up with your bull. And I'll see to it that staff handles you.

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These are your words "Its a shame that nobody recognized how much money was on the line." you lamented NOTHING else, absolutely NOTHING, only money.

So quit pretending you can spin your way out of it, man up and own your contemptible words.

It's interesting how you think you're a victim of anything after showing such callousness to actual victims.

Chanceux said:

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Brian Ethridge said:

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BEAR RAMMAGE said:

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From a legal standpoint. Absolutely ZERO evidence.

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I wouldn't step out on tree branch for anyone.

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Looks like you need to have a chat with milli again.

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Triggered by being confronted with your own words, fascinating.

Let's not forget that there's an Auditing and Compliance Committee also.....

YoakDaddy said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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what did they hide and how do you know it?

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To answer your question, the number of sexual assaults campus-wide for years 2011 to 2015. This was noted in a recording of Patty Crawford as football being 10% of the total number.

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Actually, what she said was that "athletics" (not just football) counted for 10% of the "complaints" to Title IX (not sexual assaults).

YoakDaddy said:

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Let's not forget that there's an Auditing and Compliance Committee also.....

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Are you a fantasy movie writer?

Malbec said:

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YoakDaddy said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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what did they hide and how do you know it?

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To answer your question, the number of sexual assaults campus-wide for years 2011 to 2015. This was noted in a recording of Patty Crawford as football being 10% of the total number.

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Actually, what she said was that "athletics" (not just football) counted for 10% of the "complaints" to Title IX (not sexual assaults).

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Thanks for the correction.

bearlyafarmer said:

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Just to get us back to the OP question, the answer is still "there is no such evidence."

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This is true

Osodecentx said:

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bearlyafarmer said:

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Just to get us back to the OP question, the answer is still "there is no such evidence."

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This is true

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CABers demand links, URLs, and court quality proof from BORers. CABer to CABer, truth is a much friendlier word. This is why you guys can't talk to each other.

NoBSU said:

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Osodecentx said:

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bearlyafarmer said:

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Just to get us back to the OP question, the answer is still "there is no such evidence."

---

This is true

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CABers demand links, URLs, and court quality proof from BORers. CABer to CABer, truth is a much friendlier word. This is why you guys can't talk to each other.

---

I don't know about "court quality proof," but has there even been one "victim" that said that Briles (or his staff) tried to cover up a rape, or pay them off, or threaten them in some way? And no, saying, "they didn't believe me" is not the same thing. Neither is asking a "victim" what they wanted the coaches to do about it.

This suggestion that just because some T9 reporting protocol says that a complaint must be reported even if the "victim" doesn't want it reported, somehow makes someone a "rape enabler" or a "**** shamer" for following the "victim's" wishes is beyond senseless. In fact, the suggestion of such is dispassionate at the very least.