BrooksBearLives said:

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Osodecentx said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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.... a man who conspired to hide multiple transgressions of his players from the University itself.

---

This isn't true

---

Yes it is.

On April 8, 2011, after a freshman defensive tackle was cited for illegal consumption of alcohol, Coach Briles sent a text message to an assistant coach: "Hopefully he's under radar enough they won't recognize name did he get ticket from Baylor police or Waco? Just trying to keep him away from our judicial affairs folks...."

---

I don't believe that is a firing offense.
Be careful what offense you establish as "firable". Is a student who observes another student violating the honor code supposed to tell JA? Expulsion? Professor sees it. He he to be fired if he doesn't report it?
Frat sponsor observes underage drinking and doesn't report it to JA. Firable?

If you think the standard of behavior is the same for students as it is for the highest paid employee, Baylor failed miserably at teaching you about the honor code.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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If you think the standard of behavior is the same for students as it is for the highest paid employee, Baylor failed miserably at teaching you about the honor code.

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That is my point. Be careful which standard you embrace

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

.... a man who conspired to hide multiple transgressions of his players from the University itself.

---

This isn't true

---

Yes it is.

On April 8, 2011, after a freshman defensive tackle was cited for illegal consumption of alcohol, Coach Briles sent a text message to an assistant coach: "Hopefully he's under radar enough they won't recognize name did he get ticket from Baylor police or Waco? Just trying to keep him away from our judicial affairs folks...."

---

I don't believe that is a firing offense.
Be careful what offense you establish as "firable". Is a student who observes another student violating the honor code supposed to tell JA? Expulsion? Professor sees it. He he to be fired if he doesn't report it?
Frat sponsor observes underage drinking and doesn't report it to JA. Firable?

---

While that offense and several others they listed are no shockers, they are examples of a pattern of behavior. It is that pattern if behavior that is not acceptable.

Be careful what standard you adopt. Not reporting everything to JA is now firable offenses

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

.... a man who conspired to hide multiple transgressions of his players from the University itself.

---

This isn't true

---

Yes it is.

On April 8, 2011, after a freshman defensive tackle was cited for illegal consumption of alcohol, Coach Briles sent a text message to an assistant coach: "Hopefully he's under radar enough they won't recognize name did he get ticket from Baylor police or Waco? Just trying to keep him away from our judicial affairs folks...."

---

I don't believe that is a firing offense.
Be careful what offense you establish as "firable". Is a student who observes another student violating the honor code supposed to tell JA? Expulsion? Professor sees it. He he to be fired if he doesn't report it?
Frat sponsor observes underage drinking and doesn't report it to JA. Firable?

---

So you admit you were wrong when you said it wasn't true (that he actively hid things from the University)?

I'm just trying to keep your "reasoning" straight.

Osodecentx said:

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Be careful what standard you adopt. Not reporting everything to JA is now firable offenses

---

Covering up conduct offenses on behalf of players? That always is -and should be- a fire-able offense. There is absolutely no question on that.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Dungeon Athletics said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Chanceux said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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303Bear said:

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Its always fun when people take accusations and innuendo at truth, and any available information as evidence.

Threads like this is why we have a legal system.

---

the only side without evidence are the supporters of Briles. BTW, I still love Art Briles. I'm thankful for everything he did. But he earned this the moment it became clear he was hiding things from Judicial Affairs. You simply can't come back from that.

But I still believe in his redemption. I still think he can learn from this and move on and coach. I don't think he's beyond redemption. But I don't see how he could have kept his job here.

---

Err dadgum program in the country hides stuff from the people who make the school rules. Its fireable. That aint a question. Some schools dont do diddly when the coach gets caught. Covering up rapes is a whole nother hill of beans.

---

First off, the "everyone does it" rule doesn't ****ing play for me. We're here to serve God and to be righteous. Any state school fan say that, and I'd roll my eyes and be glad I went to a University where values mean something.

Secondly, people judge you by your actions. When you have a coach who is actively keeping things out of the eyes of Judicial Affairs -which he did when he tried to keep a player asking for a handy quiet- then one can't argue it sets a tone. If you think they would cover up a hand-job, but stop at a guy intimidating or roughing up his girlfriend, then you have more faith in him than his subsequent actions have earned.

---

You might be more believable with fewer F-bombs. Just sayin'.

---

"I can't argue with what you say, so I'll just critique how you said it."

Thanks for your continued contribution to the conversation.

You'll defend a man who conspired to hide multiple transgressions of his players from the University itself. But you'll clutch your pearls and say I'm not believable because I drop an F-bomb out of frustration from having to make a point about information available for over a year?

Gotcha.

---

He's got a deeper agenda than simply defending Briles, just give it time.

Mr. Actuary, yeah right mofo

---

Oh, right. I forgot. Since I figured out what your name was on Baylor Fans, I must be Briles' attorney. I feel like that assumption should tell me something about you, but I have no idea what it is.

BrooksBearLives said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Be careful what standard you adopt. Not reporting everything to JA is now firable offenses

---

Covering up conduct offenses on behalf of players? That always is -and should be- a fire-able offense. There is absolutely no question on that.

---

What about the professor who covers up for the cheating student? What about the fraternity sponsor who covers up for the under age drinkers?

Or does you standard only apply to athletes?

BrooksBearLives said:

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So you admit you were wrong when you said it wasn't true (that he actively hid things from the University)?

I'm just trying to keep your "reasoning" straight.

---

You got me. Will you be telling the JA?

Quote:

---

If you asked bout a c notes worth of people who knew any dadgum thing about what happened at Baylor why Briles was fired wadda ya figure they'd say? It sure as heck aint gonna be that he DID NOT cover up rapes. I can guarandamntee that. Ol Art was hiding rapists would be the first thing outta their mouths.

So when you say he was not fired because of raping I don't reckon the general public would agree.

---

This is exactly the point that people are missing. Briles isn't a pariah in the coaching profession because of anything except RAPE. You can make the point that he let things go, that he tried to keep players out of the Baylor student disciplinary system, that he recruited questionable characters, whatever line of reasoning helps you live with the BOR's decision. But, he did not have a job offer rescinded in another country, by a team of professionals because of any of those reasons. There weren't 52 flowers in Hamilton for the 52 guys that he kept away from JA for alcohol, fighting, double exposure at the massage parlor and the like. He isn't persona non grata in every P5 institution of football because he advocated for some player to have his academic probation lifted.

Baylor should have made this clear. They should have held a press conference and came right and said why he was bought out. They should have put it on the record from Day 1 that Art Briles never covered up rape.

Finally, the reason that most people in college football believe what Baylor has never refuted regarding coaches and sexual assault, is that they simply can't believe he could have been fired for the reasons most of the people here say he was, when they know full well that their school wouldn't have done so for those reasons.

Osodecentx said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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So you admit you were wrong when you said it wasn't true (that he actively hid things from the University)?

I'm just trying to keep your "reasoning" straight.

---

You got me. Will you be telling the JA?

---

It's really big of you to admit you were wrong.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

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So you admit you were wrong when you said it wasn't true (that he actively hid things from the University)?

I'm just trying to keep your "reasoning" straight.

---

You got me. Will you be telling the JA?

---

It's really big of you to admit you were wrong.

---

Plz don't tell JA

Osodecentx said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Be careful what standard you adopt. Not reporting everything to JA is now firable offenses

---

Covering up conduct offenses on behalf of players? That always is -and should be- a fire-able offense. There is absolutely no question on that.

---

What about the professor who covers up for the cheating student? What about the fraternity sponsor who covers up for the under age drinkers?

Or does you standard only apply to athletes?

---

Are you serious? Yes. Yes, those are all fire-able offenses.

If you're a police officer, and you cover up your spouse's DUI, should you get to keep your job?

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

So you admit you were wrong when you said it wasn't true (that he actively hid things from the University)?

I'm just trying to keep your "reasoning" straight.

---

You got me. Will you be telling the JA?

---

It's really big of you to admit you were wrong.

---

Plz don't tell JA

---

Well, you're in luck. Being a moron isn't against student rules.

Malbec said:

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Quote:

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If you asked bout a c notes worth of people who knew any dadgum thing about what happened at Baylor why Briles was fired wadda ya figure they'd say? It sure as heck aint gonna be that he DID NOT cover up rapes. I can guarandamntee that. Ol Art was hiding rapists would be the first thing outta their mouths.

So when you say he was not fired because of raping I don't reckon the general public would agree.

---

This is exactly the point that people are missing. Briles isn't a pariah in the coaching profession because of anything except RAPE. You can make the point that he let things go, that he tried to keep players out of the Baylor student disciplinary system, that he recruited questionable characters, whatever line of reasoning helps you live with the BOR's decision. But, he did not have a job offer rescinded in another country, by a team of professionals because of any of those reasons. There weren't 52 flowers in Hamilton for the 52 guys that he kept away from JA for alcohol, fighting, double exposure at the massage parlor and the like. He isn't persona non grata in every P5 institution of football because he advocated for some player to have his academic probation lifted.

Baylor should have made this clear. They should have held a press conference and came right and said why he was bought out. They should have put it on the record from Day 1 that Art Briles never covered up rape.

Finally, the reason that most people in college football believe what Baylor has never refuted regarding coaches and sexual assault, is that they simply can't believe he could have been fired for the reasons most of the people here say he was when they know full well that their school wouldn't have done so for those reasons.

---

This issue that would arise, especially in this forum, is that different people have different thoughts on what would constitute covering up a rape.

In the particular case of Baylor during the relevant time period, if an assistant coach reported an alleged assault to the AD and the AD did not report it to Judicial Affairs the way that the AD was supposed to, it would not be a stretch for an outsider to say that the AD was complicit in covering up an assault because by not reporting it, the AD may have caused the alleged assault to not get investigated.

Some in this forum would disagree with the stance of the outsider (and that's fine), but the outsider would not necessarily be wrong.

BrooksBearLives said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

So you admit you were wrong when you said it wasn't true (that he actively hid things from the University)?

I'm just trying to keep your "reasoning" straight.

---

You got me. Will you be telling the JA?

---

It's really big of you to admit you were wrong.

---

Plz don't tell JA

---

Well, you're in luck. Being a moron isn't against student rules.

---

So you are covering up for me? I'll have to report you

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Be careful what standard you adopt. Not reporting everything to JA is now firable offenses

---

Covering up conduct offenses on behalf of players? That always is -and should be- a fire-able offense. There is absolutely no question on that.

---

What about the professor who covers up for the cheating student? What about the fraternity sponsor who covers up for the under age drinkers?

Or does you standard only apply to athletes?

---

Are you serious? Yes. Yes, those are all fire-able offenses.

If you're a police officer, and you cover up your spouse's DUI, should you get to keep your job?

---

Heil Brooks

Brooksbear said: My perception of him changed the instant I saw he was hiding things from Baylor. In that second, I realized the University had no other choice. Period.

I get this. I hear you. When I first read the FOF, I was devastated. Then I read it more closely and saw a lot of things that were and weren't there.

Then I read what the BOR lawyers wrote in this document, and again I was devastated. I thought, "the university had no choice. period."

Then I thought some more. In fact, there were tons of choices.

The way the BOR played this thing out was abysmal. Classically bad. Farcical.

That's my problem--not with letting Briles go, but doing it in such a way that maximum damage resulted. I have no confidence whatsoever in BU leadership now. Livingstone canning Ramsower and Tommy Lou helped, but there's a long way to go for me.

You complain that those who back CAB can't see that this is a black and white issue. You are wrong, it's not black and white, the school had tons of choices and opportunities to minimize the damage--and it failed miserably.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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Malbec said:

---

Quote:

---

If you asked bout a c notes worth of people who knew any dadgum thing about what happened at Baylor why Briles was fired wadda ya figure they'd say? It sure as heck aint gonna be that he DID NOT cover up rapes. I can guarandamntee that. Ol Art was hiding rapists would be the first thing outta their mouths.

So when you say he was not fired because of raping I don't reckon the general public would agree.

---

This is exactly the point that people are missing. Briles isn't a pariah in the coaching profession because of anything except RAPE. You can make the point that he let things go, that he tried to keep players out of the Baylor student disciplinary system, that he recruited questionable characters, whatever line of reasoning helps you live with the BOR's decision. But, he did not have a job offer rescinded in another country, by a team of professionals because of any of those reasons. There weren't 52 flowers in Hamilton for the 52 guys that he kept away from JA for alcohol, fighting, double exposure at the massage parlor and the like. He isn't persona non grata in every P5 institution of football because he advocated for some player to have his academic probation lifted.

Baylor should have made this clear. They should have held a press conference and came right and said why he was bought out. They should have put it on the record from Day 1 that Art Briles never covered up rape.

Finally, the reason that most people in college football believe what Baylor has never refuted regarding coaches and sexual assault, is that they simply can't believe he could have been fired for the reasons most of the people here say he was when they know full well that their school wouldn't have done so for those reasons.

---

This issue that would arise, especially in this forum, is that different people have different thoughts on what would constitute covering up a rape.

In the particular case of Baylor during the relevant time period, if an assistant coach reported an alleged assault to the AD and the AD did not report it to Judicial Affairs the way that the AD was supposed to, it would not be a stretch for an outsider to say that the AD was complicit in covering up an assault because by not reporting it, the AD may have caused the alleged assault to not get investigated.

Some in this forum would disagree with the stance of the outsider (and that's fine), but the outsider would not necessarily be wrong.

---

Well unfortunately for all of us here fans and alums is that you gotta take what happened and then start puttin it in the context of good ol Baylor's company line at the time. Off campus? She file charges? Said she didn't want to. Nothing we can do. Its pretty damn easy to get labeled a real fine rape enabler when yer company policy is a bag of crap. Then you gotta tack on that mess that a guy who Briles brought with him was washing jocks in Stephenville nigh long ago and is on the front line of dealing with rape accusations and player discipline.

That right there is a powder keg of stupidity. Then you got a letter that doesn't exactly absolve Briles but it does muddy the water. And you made him sign a non-disclosure? Well why? What in the heck is Baylor hiding?

Art chose to hire a PR firm, fight it out in the public and lost horribly. He was the initial aggressor.
Now, Jerry Sandusky and Art Briles have something big in common that causes major issues with those tied to Baylor's mess.

Sometimes you need to change your competitive image and walk away for a minute. Outside the football field, you might have a harder time handling opponents when big money is present.

Beaneater said:

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Brooksbear said: My perception of him changed the instant I saw he was hiding things from Baylor. In that second, I realized the University had no other choice. Period.

I get this. I hear you. When I first read the FOF, I was devastated. Then I read it more closely and saw a lot of things that were and weren't there.

Then I read what the BOR lawyers wrote in this document, and again I was devastated. I thought, "the university had no choice. period."

Then I thought some more. In fact, there were tons of choices.

The way the BOR played this thing out was abysmal. Classically bad. Farcical.

That's my problem--not with letting Briles go, but doing it in such a way that maximum damage resulted. I have no confidence whatsoever in BU leadership now. Livingstone canning Ramsower and Tommy Lou helped, but there's a long way to go for me.

You complain that those who back CAB can't see that this is a black and white issue. You are wrong, it's not black and white, the school had tons of choices and opportunities to minimize the damage--and it failed miserably.

---

Actually it's quite a bit about black and white .

Dungeon Athletics said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

---

Dungeon Athletics said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Its always fun when people take accusations and innuendo at truth, and any available information as evidence.

Threads like this is why we have a legal system.

---

the only side without evidence are the supporters of Briles. BTW, I still love Art Briles. I'm thankful for everything he did. But he earned this the moment it became clear he was hiding things from Judicial Affairs. You simply can't come back from that.

But I still believe in his redemption. I still think he can learn from this and move on and coach. I don't think he's beyond redemption. But I don't see how he could have kept his job here.

---

Err dadgum program in the country hides stuff from the people who make the school rules. Its fireable. That aint a question. Some schools dont do diddly when the coach gets caught. Covering up rapes is a whole nother hill of beans.

---

First off, the "everyone does it" rule doesn't ****ing play for me. We're here to serve God and to be righteous. Any state school fan say that, and I'd roll my eyes and be glad I went to a University where values mean something.

Secondly, people judge you by your actions. When you have a coach who is actively keeping things out of the eyes of Judicial Affairs -which he did when he tried to keep a player asking for a handy quiet- then one can't argue it sets a tone. If you think they would cover up a hand-job, but stop at a guy intimidating or roughing up his girlfriend, then you have more faith in him than his subsequent actions have earned.

---

You might be more believable with fewer F-bombs. Just sayin'.

---

"I can't argue with what you say, so I'll just critique how you said it."

Thanks for your continued contribution to the conversation.

You'll defend a man who conspired to hide multiple transgressions of his players from the University itself. But you'll clutch your pearls and say I'm not believable because I drop an F-bomb out of frustration from having to make a point about information available for over a year?

Gotcha.

---

He's got a deeper agenda than simply defending Briles, just give it time.

Mr. Actuary, yeah right mofo

---

Oh, right. I forgot. Since I figured out what your name was on Baylor Fans, I must be Briles' attorney. I feel like that assumption should tell me something about you, but I have no idea what it is.

---

I''m just saying you care for a reason

The forgot they worked for a school, played a silly ass PR game, lost, got put with Jerry Sandusky and pissed off TV and sponsors to a point the CFL was told broadcast sponsors wanted no part and would end business relationships.
Now, he goes around waving some letter claiming exoneration. This would be like claiming xiledinok writes Shakespeare.

mmodine said:

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JXL said:

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mmodine said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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mmodine said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Malbec said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Malbec said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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That is fair

I have agreed with the OP that there is not evidence he covered up rape. I might add that has never been said by Baylor or the regents.

Now word differences are subtle, but the differences in meaning are large, Briles failed to notify Judicial Affairs of an alleged rape (as did several others). There is also a long list, and a clear pattern, of not reporting things to Judicial Affairs. It is that pattern that is the main cause of his termination. As the regents have clearly stated, there is no one thing.

But when challenged, some supporters just double down, and do things like question if the text are even real. At best they are being obtuse.

---

When you say this, are you talking about the case with Barnes and his player?

---

You know I am.

FYI - I just recently finished reading "Violated" . The book does say Barnes called JA but did not give the girl's name or any details. Only asked an unknown person a few questions. In short, Barnes phone call did happen, but does not contradict any earlier accounts of things not reported. The girl also said she made clear allegations of rape.

---

So then. You are stating that Briles had a duty to report the incident even though he was not Barnes' direct supervisor, did not receive the report first-hand but was rather told of the incident by an employee of the university who did get the report first-hand, and was told by Barnes that he had already contacted JA about the incident, and the report had already been made to Briles' direct supervisor who was also Barnes' supervisor?

Not that it matters, but who said the girl made clear allegations (10 months after the incident) of rape? The authors of Violated?

---

That's precisely what Title IX says. It's called mandatory reporting.

It's also what any decent person would do. If you hear something, you pass it on to either a coordinator or your superior. At that moment, it's not your responsibility anymore.

Once again, we do know that Briles actively hid things from Judicial Affairs.

---

As it has been stated by many professors and coaches, BU did not have Title 9 in place so the mandatory reporting was not in place. Also, any decent person may also give advice such as call the police. What did Briles hide? Baylor wrote a letter saying they didn't find he hid anything. As we have all seen on here for the past year, you actively try to show that Briles is guilty. Your mind is made up and you will smear him any chance you get. You're about as credible as Brenda Tracy.

---

School policy was in place even if T9 was unknown

How sincere is it to tell someone who has said they don't want to call the police, to call the police?

You need to reread that letter a few times - covers very little

---

If it is a crime they should tell the police.

---

It's been estimated that 80 percent of rape victims don't report it to the police.

---

How would anyone be able to estimate this number?

---

Don't know, but it's a number which consistently comes up in news accounts.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9134799/Sexual-assault-survey-80-of-women-dont-report-rape-or-sexual-assault-survey-claims.html

http://krqe.com/2014/12/21/qa-why-campus-rape-victims-usually-dont-report/

https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/Pages/rape-notification.aspx

(This last one has a somewhat lower number)

xiledinok said:

---

He was the initial aggressor.
Now, Jerry Sandusky and Art Briles have something big in common that causes major issues with those tied to Baylor's mess.

---

False
Briles was unfairly fired. BU was the aggressor

Osodecentx said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

He was the initial aggressor.
Now, Jerry Sandusky and Art Briles have something big in common that causes major issues with those tied to Baylor's mess.

---

False
Briles was unfairly fired. BU was the aggressor

---

If it makes you feel better, we completely screwed ourselves.

Robert Wilson said:

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If it makes you feel better, we completely screwed ourselves.

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I don't feel better

Osodecentx said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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If it makes you feel better, we completely screwed ourselves.

---

I don't feel better

---

Me neither. I feel quite bad about it.

Osodecentx said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

He was the initial aggressor.
Now, Jerry Sandusky and Art Briles have something big in common that causes major issues with those tied to Baylor's mess.

---

False
Briles was unfairly fired. BU was the aggressor

---

True on every level. Sandusky and him are in the same boat. I posted during the Rice game that they were going to get steam rolled by Baylor.
Why cannot he explain his "unfairly fired" self?
Are you denying they didn't hire a pr firm?

xiledinok said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

He was the initial aggressor.
Now, Jerry Sandusky and Art Briles have something big in common that causes major issues with those tied to Baylor's mess.

---

False
Briles was unfairly fired. BU was the aggressor

---

True on every level. Sandusky and him are in the same boat.

---

False on every level

xiledinok said:

---

The forgot they worked for a school, played a silly ass PR game, lost, got put with Jerry Sandusky and pissed off TV and sponsors to a point the CFL was told broadcast sponsors wanted no part and would end business relationships.
Now, he goes around waving some letter claiming exoneration. This would be like claiming xiledinok writes Shakespeare.

---

We can at least understand Shakespeare. Your random, incoherent, stream of consciousness posting would make an English teacher cringe.

ColomboLQ said:

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xiledinok said:

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The forgot they worked for a school, played a silly ass PR game, lost, got put with Jerry Sandusky and pissed off TV and sponsors to a point

---

We can at least understand Shakespeare. Your random, incoherent, stream of consciousness posting would make an English teacher cringe.

---

And CLEARLY, if there is any poster qualified to judge the merits of an authors use of the English language, both in grammar and composition, it is........Colombo LQ...

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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If you think the standard of behavior is the same for students as it is for the highest paid employee, Baylor failed miserably at teaching you about the honor code.

---

Really?

Baylor teaches that honor is a function of your W2?

If so, the school has even bigger problems than I thought.

When did Joel Osteen become president?