and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
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Last: 1 yr ago by Canada2017
Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.LIB,MR BEARS said:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
See Romans 13.Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
No. Based on your interpretation, if one doesn't want to be a buffet Christian, one could never defend one's self, call the police to enforce laws, serve in the military or even be a postman. Government doesn't turn the other cheek. Government uses violence to both force compliance and to kill. Supporting any of those things makes you a complicit buffet Christian.
Or you are simply wrong. Either way, I have zero sympathy.
Wangchung said:There is no conflict between those two statements. We have such a mass of humanity at the border and our system is so overwhelmed that many just choose to invade the old fashioned way, hiding in trucks and sneaking, in order to speed up being in this country. Many don't know any other way. The open border problem is SO bad that all means and methods are being taken by illegals.Booray said:
The answers I am getting are: (1) we have an open border and (2) people have to be smuggled across the open border. There seems to be a conflict between those two things.
Go at it a different way: what policies need to change to stop the flow of illegal immigration and specifically, to prevent episodes like yesterday's?
If you'd like to stop or slow this crisis, we have to make people remain in Mexico while they await a trial and we have to start deporting people who come across illegally. We have to honor the asylum rules and stop giving mere economic immigrants asylum status. We also have to stop allowing anyone to cross Mexico, a "safe country", in order to get here and claim asylum.
There is absolutely a logical disconnect between
the border is so badly open that
many don't go through the opening because it's not big enough, they choose to be smuggled across
You guys just have your talking points, and you find ways to make new information work alongside them.
And fof the record, I do have a general problem with Democrats' attitude toward the border. But Republicans feed the illegal drug trade in the US, which largely supports the gang violence in Mecxico/Central America, ewhich is why so many want desperately to come to the US.
Both parties responsible for the situation, for decades now. so forgive me for thinking it funny that this specific tragedy is 1 person's fault.
Sam Lowry said:See Romans 13.Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
No. Based on your interpretation, if one doesn't want to be a buffet Christian, one could never defend one's self, call the police to enforce laws, serve in the military or even be a postman. Government doesn't turn the other cheek. Government uses violence to both force compliance and to kill. Supporting any of those things makes you a complicit buffet Christian.
Or you are simply wrong. Either way, I have zero sympathy.
Based on his interpretation of loving your neighbor, Paul is wrong. He's a buffet Christian. Or he's just wrong.
what formula did you use to get to "net economic benefit"?Sam Lowry said:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.LIB,MR BEARS said:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Economic benefits minus economic costs.LIB,MR BEARS said:what formula did you use to get to "net economic benefit"?Sam Lowry said:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.LIB,MR BEARS said:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically %A0rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck%85zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself%85zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies%85zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime%85zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. %A0I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Sam Lowry said:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.LIB,MR BEARS said:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Correct but incomplete. They not only lower labor cost, they boost consumption and tax base.
Immigrants tend to move demographic pyramids into better balance, bulking up the bottom to broaden consumption and give more utility to capital held by the top of the pyramid.
to understand the macroeconomic impacts of immigration, one must accept the reality that it matters not whether an immigrant is here legally or not. ANY increase in population is stimulative. And illegals in particular tend to be very young, of child rearing age and heavy consumers. (Old farts like most of here are empty nesters busy saving/investing.)
Attacking illegal immigration as economically harmful is a loser because it is demonstrably wrong. Every time a person crosses our border, the consumption of tacos and toilet paper rises, whether they are illegal or not. And the benefits are much more than that.
The harm of illegal immigration is rule of law, in ways I have already explained. Our government is abusing prosecutorial discretion to not just allow but encourage illegal immigration as a way to immigrate our way out of economic difficulties at a time when fiscal and monetary bullets are all spent. They do this because they know the American people would never stand for quadrupling legal immigration. So they achieve the same ends by going thru motions in border defense they full well know will encourage rather than curtail the flow.
If the American people really understood the way they're being played, there'd be pitchfork carrying mobs in the street.
Played, but also shielded from a truth we wouldn't readily accept. Imagine the mobs if they shut down the border and we had to deal with our low birth rates directly.whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.LIB,MR BEARS said:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Correct but incomplete. They not only lower labor cost, they boost consumption and tax base.
Immigrants tend to move demographic pyramids into better balance, bulking up the bottom to broaden consumption and give more utility to capital held by the top of the pyramid.
to understand the macroeconomic impacts of immigration, one must accept the reality that it matters not whether an immigrant is here legally or not. ANY increase in population is stimulative. And illegals in particular tend to be very young, of child rearing age and heavy consumers. (Old farts like most of here are empty nesters busy saving/investing.)
Attacking illegal immigration as economically harmful is a loser because it is demonstrably wrong. Every time a person crosses our border, the consumption of tacos and toilet paper rises, whether they are illegal or not. And the benefits are much more than that.
The harm of illegal immigration is rule of law, in ways I have already explained. Our government is abusing prosecutorial discretion to not just allow but encourage illegal immigration as a way to immigrate our way out of economic difficulties at a time when fiscal and monetary bullets are all spent. They do this because they know the American people would never stand for quadrupling legal immigration. So they achieve the same ends by going thru motions in border defense they full well know will encourage rather than curtail the flow.
If the American people really understood the way they're being played, there'd be pitchfork carrying mobs in the street.
Anyone who owns a college degree KNOWS that is impossible for the United States ( or any country ) to provide employment , education , food , shelter , and medical care for additional millions of illegal immigrants each year...... for an indefinite number of years .Golem said:Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
False. They drain resources, bring violent crime and drugs and lower wages for Americans.
Physically , Financially , Culturally .....impossible .
So at this point anyone even remotely playing the ' let them come in ' game is either hopelessly ignorant or trolling .
Sam Lowry said:Played, but also shielded from a truth we wouldn't readily accept. Imagine the mobs if they shut down the border and we had to deal with our low birth rates directly.whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.LIB,MR BEARS said:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Correct but incomplete. They not only lower labor cost, they boost consumption and tax base.
Immigrants tend to move demographic pyramids into better balance, bulking up the bottom to broaden consumption and give more utility to capital held by the top of the pyramid.
to understand the macroeconomic impacts of immigration, one must accept the reality that it matters not whether an immigrant is here legally or not. ANY increase in population is stimulative. And illegals in particular tend to be very young, of child rearing age and heavy consumers. (Old farts like most of here are empty nesters busy saving/investing.)
Attacking illegal immigration as economically harmful is a loser because it is demonstrably wrong. Every time a person crosses our border, the consumption of tacos and toilet paper rises, whether they are illegal or not. And the benefits are much more than that.
The harm of illegal immigration is rule of law, in ways I have already explained. Our government is abusing prosecutorial discretion to not just allow but encourage illegal immigration as a way to immigrate our way out of economic difficulties at a time when fiscal and monetary bullets are all spent. They do this because they know the American people would never stand for quadrupling legal immigration. So they achieve the same ends by going thru motions in border defense they full well know will encourage rather than curtail the flow.
If the American people really understood the way they're being played, there'd be pitchfork carrying mobs in the street.
That would be an informed electorate getting to have a choice.
Japan (notably) chose to remain Japanese and ride the demographics downward. They seem to be at peace with it. Self government properly done tends to work out that way. It's when elites think they know better than the masses and start forcing those masses to bear the brunt of the consequences of the choices made by their betters that things tend to get contentious.
And here we are.
We all have the choice to be informed.whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Played, but also shielded from a truth we wouldn't readily accept. Imagine the mobs if they shut down the border and we had to deal with our low birth rates directly.whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.LIB,MR BEARS said:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Correct but incomplete. They not only lower labor cost, they boost consumption and tax base.
Immigrants tend to move demographic pyramids into better balance, bulking up the bottom to broaden consumption and give more utility to capital held by the top of the pyramid.
to understand the macroeconomic impacts of immigration, one must accept the reality that it matters not whether an immigrant is here legally or not. ANY increase in population is stimulative. And illegals in particular tend to be very young, of child rearing age and heavy consumers. (Old farts like most of here are empty nesters busy saving/investing.)
Attacking illegal immigration as economically harmful is a loser because it is demonstrably wrong. Every time a person crosses our border, the consumption of tacos and toilet paper rises, whether they are illegal or not. And the benefits are much more than that.
The harm of illegal immigration is rule of law, in ways I have already explained. Our government is abusing prosecutorial discretion to not just allow but encourage illegal immigration as a way to immigrate our way out of economic difficulties at a time when fiscal and monetary bullets are all spent. They do this because they know the American people would never stand for quadrupling legal immigration. So they achieve the same ends by going thru motions in border defense they full well know will encourage rather than curtail the flow.
If the American people really understood the way they're being played, there'd be pitchfork carrying mobs in the street.
That would be an informed electorate getting to have a choice.
Japan (notably) chose to remain Japanese and ride the demographics downward. They seem to be at peace with it. Self government properly done tends to work out that way. It's when elites think they know better than the masses and start forcing those masses to bear the brunt of the consequences of the choices made by their betters that things tend to get contentious.
And here we are.
The problem is that the economic benefits and costs are not distributed evenly. Dallas ISD has to try to educate kids who don't know English while people in Plano and Frisco get their lawns mowed and their houses cleaned more cheaply than might otherwise be the case. Texans have to deal with drunk drivers, drivers without insurance crime so the country as a whole gets a demographic benefit. Not to mention the cultural changes that result from bringing in millions of uneducated people from crime-ridden countries, many of which are not democratic or capitalist. The U.S. is already the most diverse country in the world. We don't need to be adding millions of additional foreigners.
Also true.Proud 1992 Alum said:
The problem is that the economic benefits and costs are not distributed evenly. Dallas ISD has to try to educate kids who don't know English while people in Plano and Frisco get their lawns mowed and their houses cleaned more cheaply than might otherwise be the case. Texans have to deal with drunk drivers, drivers without insurance crime so the country as a whole gets a demographic benefit. Not to mention the cultural changes that result from bringing in millions of uneducated people from crime-ridden countries, many of which are not democratic or capitalist.
that's a lot of words and a lot of education to let us know that taco consumption impacts toilet paper consumption. I learned that about an hour after my first trip to Taco Bell.whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.LIB,MR BEARS said:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Sam Lowry said:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:Golem said:I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.LIB,MR BEARS said:you didn't address the cop scenario or if you'd been the first on scene.Golem said:Illegals are the violent robbers, not the traveler who was mugged in the parable. Your attempted analog falls flat. Invaders who storm a neighboring country in the tens of millions and bring violence and death generally receive a very just death, themselves. These people received justice. I have zero sympathy for invaders.LIB,MR BEARS said:the Jews and Samaritans were enemies. When the priest and Levite walked past, did they do the right thing?Golem said:LIB,MR BEARS said:who is your neighbor?Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
The one who doesn't illegally invade my country, spreading his drug epidemics and gang warfare.
These people are the robbers, not the innocent traveler.
When a cop shoots and wounds someone that was just trying to harm them, is the right thing for them to let them lay there and bleed or to administer first aid?
If you were first on the scene at the trailer would you have administered some form of help to the handful that were still clinging to life like you would have if your neighbor was clinging to life?
Your the one that said "zero sympathy". I'm just wondering does that apply to the handful that didn't die before the discovery.
PS. the story of the Good Samaritan doesn't tell us if the traveler was a Jew or a Samaritan. Apparently, Jesus didn't think it mattered in the telling of the story.
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Correct but incomplete. They not only lower labor cost, they boost consumption and tax base.
Immigrants tend to move demographic pyramids into better balance, bulking up the bottom to broaden consumption and give more utility to capital held by the top of the pyramid.
to understand the macroeconomic impacts of immigration, one must accept the reality that it matters not whether an immigrant is here legally or not. ANY increase in population is stimulative. And illegals in particular tend to be very young, of child rearing age and heavy consumers. (Old farts like most of here are empty nesters busy saving/investing.)
Attacking illegal immigration as economically harmful is a loser because it is demonstrably wrong. Every time a person crosses our border, the consumption of tacos and toilet paper rises, whether they are illegal or not. And the benefits are much more than that.
The harm of illegal immigration is rule of law, in ways I have already explained. Our government is abusing prosecutorial discretion to not just allow but encourage illegal immigration as a way to immigrate our way out of economic difficulties at a time when fiscal and monetary bullets are all spent. They do this because they know the American people would never stand for quadrupling legal immigration. So they achieve the same ends by going thru motions in border defense they full well know will encourage rather than curtail the flow.
If the American people really understood the way they're being played, there'd be pitchfork carrying mobs in the street.
So what about the negative impact such as the expense of the bureaucracy, medical expenses, welfare, education etc.
I can say A>B and talk about all the great benefits of A as long as I never have to write down a hard number for either A or B. To this point in the thread, that is all we have is word salad A > word salad B
What are the hard numbers for the cost and for the benefits and where do they come from?
You're over-thinking it. Straight from the encyclopedia: Y = C + I + G + (X M)LIB,MR BEARS said:
I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.that's a lot of words and a lot of education to let us know that taco consumption impacts toilet paper consumption. I learned that about an hour after my first trip to Taco Bell.Quote:Quote:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.Quote:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Quote:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Correct but incomplete. They not only lower labor cost, they boost consumption and tax base.
Immigrants tend to move demographic pyramids into better balance, bulking up the bottom to broaden consumption and give more utility to capital held by the top of the pyramid.
to understand the macroeconomic impacts of immigration, one must accept the reality that it matters not whether an immigrant is here legally or not. ANY increase in population is stimulative. And illegals in particular tend to be very young, of child rearing age and heavy consumers. (Old farts like most of here are empty nesters busy saving/investing.)
Attacking illegal immigration as economically harmful is a loser because it is demonstrably wrong. Every time a person crosses our border, the consumption of tacos and toilet paper rises, whether they are illegal or not. And the benefits are much more than that.
The harm of illegal immigration is rule of law, in ways I have already explained. Our government is abusing prosecutorial discretion to not just allow but encourage illegal immigration as a way to immigrate our way out of economic difficulties at a time when fiscal and monetary bullets are all spent. They do this because they know the American people would never stand for quadrupling legal immigration. So they achieve the same ends by going thru motions in border defense they full well know will encourage rather than curtail the flow.
If the American people really understood the way they're being played, there'd be pitchfork carrying mobs in the street.
So what about the negative impact such as the expense of the bureaucracy, medical expenses, welfare, education etc.
I can say A>B and talk about all the great benefits of A as long as I never have to write down a hard number for either A or B. To this point in the thread, that is all we have is word salad A > word salad B
GDP (Y) is the sum of consumption (C), investment (I), government Expenditures (G) and net exports (X M).
If a person is here and their presence causes government expenditures by virtue of an extra body to be clothed, fed, housed, etc.....to include expenses in bureaucracy, health care, welfare, education, etc......all of those expenses too are a part of the GDP equation. Sure, the private sector would spend that money more productively (incurring marginal lost growth) but the money is still spent = GDP. From a purely macroeconomic standpoint, it matters not whether a person is here legally or not. If they're hear, it boosts GDP.
Take the old statement that there are 11 million illegal aliens in the country. That's about the population of Ohio. If we could, and did, deport all 11 million illegals in a short period of time, that would have the same effect on GDP as shipping the entire state of Ohio out of the country. GDP would fall by Ohio's percapita share of the total = depression. Adding that same number has the same effect in reverse. And we don't have 11 million illegals here. Many estimates indicate 20m+ and rising.
There are so many bad arguments made about illegal immigration being bad for the economy, particularly the "they don't pay taxes" argument, which is demonstrably wrong. They pay sales taxes on the shoes & socks they wear. They pay sales taxes on the food they eat. They pay state and federal taxes on the gasoline they put in the car, and state and county taxes on the car when they buy it or register it. They pay property taxes when they pay rent. We deport all the illegals, landlords lose tenants, then fall behind on mortgage payments and local property taxes, having negative impact on property values (which is tax base). Most illegals even pay federal payroll taxes, which is a powerful boost to Social Security, as a lot pay into the system on fraudulent identities and either way will not likely ever draw out of the system.
There is a reason why neither party has lifted a finger to do anything to stop illegal immigration. The impetus for action always, always stirs toward an amnesty bill. Every session there's an effort. But suggest we build a wall to stop the flow and holy cow the political class goes nuts. That's because the political class wants...NEEDS those bodies here, or their problem solving gets a whole lot more complicated. And the public does benefit from the growth in population, by virtue of the economic growth illegal immigration spurs.
The damage is all to rule of law.
Government is executing by inaction policies it could not get passed into law due to public opposition.
That's the kind of thing that causes....dare I say the word.......populism to break out.
Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
maybe "drain" on the economy is the wrong terminology. Perhaps it should be "drag" on the economy. As you said yourself "the private sector would spend that money more productively"whiterock said:You're over-thinking it. Straight from the encyclopedia: Y = C + I + G + (X M)LIB,MR BEARS said:
I would not save a murderer from his folly, no. I would not save a home invader from his folly, no. I would not save a car jacker from his folly, no. I would not save rapist from his folly, no. I would not save a criminal from his folly, no.that's a lot of words and a lot of education to let us know that taco consumption impacts toilet paper consumption. I learned that about an hour after my first trip to Taco Bell.Quote:Quote:Sure, but they're a net economic benefit either way. And not enough of them can get here legally to provide the labor we want, so that's partly on us.Quote:and they could be more of a grace to us by coming in legally, controlled, systematically rather than uncontrollable and unaccountable. For all the hood they do in the labor pool they also create a huge and expensive burden on the us.Quote:True, and immigrants are a grace to us through the labor they provide.Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
Everyone's life has a purpose. If you die in the course of committing a criminal act, your purpose is to serve as an example to others who would consider following in your footsteps. Every illegal invader to our country who dies in the process of breaking our laws and invading our country deserves the punishment countries have rendered to invaders since time immemorial.
There are certain parts of the Bible I struggle with and would prefer to ignore like I do asparagus at a buffet.
Many on here, including myself, have commented how those living a homosexual lifestyle and calling themselves Christian ignore the Bible in that aspect as though it is their asparagus.
I struggle with love your enemy as I guess you also do. I guess that's our asparagus.
Actually, love your enemy is only a struggle if we treat is as scripture. When we treat it as asparagus it's no problem. Buffet Christian?
So your interpretation of scripture makes you a complete anti-war, anti-police, anti-prison, anti-self defense pacifist. Got it.
Not hardly. Someone earlier in the thread described what is going on with the boarder, immigration and the legal side and processing side of it (Whiterock maybe).
I'm all about enforcing the law or rewriting laws to something that serves an intelligent purpose and is enforceable.
The process is willingly broken, willingly unmanageable. We don't have to be. We can fix ourselves by showing grace as we have received grace, mercy as we have received mercy all while we work on fixing a broken immigration system.
Correct but incomplete. They not only lower labor cost, they boost consumption and tax base.
Immigrants tend to move demographic pyramids into better balance, bulking up the bottom to broaden consumption and give more utility to capital held by the top of the pyramid.
to understand the macroeconomic impacts of immigration, one must accept the reality that it matters not whether an immigrant is here legally or not. ANY increase in population is stimulative. And illegals in particular tend to be very young, of child rearing age and heavy consumers. (Old farts like most of here are empty nesters busy saving/investing.)
Attacking illegal immigration as economically harmful is a loser because it is demonstrably wrong. Every time a person crosses our border, the consumption of tacos and toilet paper rises, whether they are illegal or not. And the benefits are much more than that.
The harm of illegal immigration is rule of law, in ways I have already explained. Our government is abusing prosecutorial discretion to not just allow but encourage illegal immigration as a way to immigrate our way out of economic difficulties at a time when fiscal and monetary bullets are all spent. They do this because they know the American people would never stand for quadrupling legal immigration. So they achieve the same ends by going thru motions in border defense they full well know will encourage rather than curtail the flow.
If the American people really understood the way they're being played, there'd be pitchfork carrying mobs in the street.
So what about the negative impact such as the expense of the bureaucracy, medical expenses, welfare, education etc.
I can say A>B and talk about all the great benefits of A as long as I never have to write down a hard number for either A or B. To this point in the thread, that is all we have is word salad A > word salad B
GDP (Y) is the sum of consumption (C), investment (I), government Expenditures (G) and net exports (X M).
If a person is here and their presence causes government expenditures by virtue of an extra body to be clothed, fed, housed, etc.....to include expenses in bureaucracy, health care, welfare, education, etc......all of those expenses too are a part of the GDP equation. Sure, the private sector would spend that money more productively (incurring marginal lost growth) but the money is still spent = GDP. From a purely macroeconomic standpoint, it matters not whether a person is here legally or not. If they're hear, it boosts GDP.
Take the old statement that there are 11 million illegal aliens in the country. That's about the population of Ohio. If we could, and did, deport all 11 million illegals in a short period of time, that would have the same effect on GDP as shipping the entire state of Ohio out of the country. GDP would fall by Ohio's percapita share of the total = depression. Adding that same number has the same effect in reverse. And we don't have 11 million illegals here. Many estimates indicate 20m+ and rising.
There are so many bad arguments made about illegal immigration being bad for the economy, particularly the "they don't pay taxes" argument, which is demonstrably wrong. They pay sales taxes on the shoes & socks they wear. They pay sales taxes on the food they eat. They pay state and federal taxes on the gasoline they put in the car, and state and county taxes on the car when they buy it or register it. They pay property taxes when they pay rent. We deport all the illegals, landlords lose tenants, then fall behind on mortgage payments and local property taxes, having negative impact on property values (which is tax base). Most illegals even pay federal payroll taxes, which is a powerful boost to Social Security, as a lot pay into the system on fraudulent identities and either way will not likely ever draw out of the system.
There is a reason why neither party has lifted a finger to do anything to stop illegal immigration. The impetus for action always, always stirs toward an amnesty bill. Every session there's an effort. But suggest we build a wall to stop the flow and holy cow the political class goes nuts. That's because the political class wants...NEEDS those bodies here, or their problem solving gets a whole lot more complicated. And the public does benefit from the growth in population, by virtue of the economic growth illegal immigration spurs.
The damage is all to rule of law.
Government is executing by inaction policies it could not get passed into law due to public opposition.
That's the kind of thing that causes....dare I say the word.......populism to break out.
What we are missing is the difference between current GDP and potential GDP if those dollars were being spent in the private sector. What is that formula and what is that difference?
Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
Golem said:Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
Cheap labor depresses wages for legal workers. There is simply no way paying people less helps the economy.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
You have a bigger problem than you realize,Booray said:Golem said:There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
People aren't voting republican because of Judeo-Christian moral positions. They're voting in Tea party types because they don't trust our system anymore. A system that every single democrat wants to expand.
A rational position is that congress needs to allocate funds and competence to fix immigration and streamline it. Like whiterock said, that's not advantageous to either party at the moment. Only tea party types are headed in that direction.
There's too much red tape and bureaucratic stonewalling and you need to stop supporting it if you really want solutions.
Doc Holliday said:You have a bigger problem than you realize,Booray said:Golem said:There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
People aren't voting republican because of Judeo-Christian moral positions. They're voting in Tea party types because they don't trust our system anymore. A system that every single democrat wants to expand.
A rational position is that congress needs to allocate funds and competence to fix immigration and streamline it. Like whiterock said, that's not advantageous to either party at the moment. Only tea party types are headed in that direction.
There's too much red tape and bureaucratic stonewalling and you need to stop supporting it if you really want solutions.
You have a bigger problem than me if you have to defend a lack of sympathy for people who died horrible deaths while trying to find a better life.
Booray said:Doc Holliday said:You have a bigger problem than you realize,Booray said:Golem said:There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
People aren't voting republican because of Judeo-Christian moral positions. They're voting in Tea party types because they don't trust our system anymore. A system that every single democrat wants to expand.
A rational position is that congress needs to allocate funds and competence to fix immigration and streamline it. Like whiterock said, that's not advantageous to either party at the moment. Only tea party types are headed in that direction.
There's too much red tape and bureaucratic stonewalling and you need to stop supporting it if you really want solutions.
You have a bigger problem than me if you have to defend a lack of sympathy for people who died horrible deaths while trying to find a better life.
Burglars break into homes to find a better life too. Bank robbers rob banks to find a better life. Car thieves steal cars to find a better life. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
What about people who exceed the speed limit in pursuit of a better life and end up having an accident? Leave them to die?Golem said:Booray said:Doc Holliday said:You have a bigger problem than you realize,Booray said:Golem said:There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
People aren't voting republican because of Judeo-Christian moral positions. They're voting in Tea party types because they don't trust our system anymore. A system that every single democrat wants to expand.
A rational position is that congress needs to allocate funds and competence to fix immigration and streamline it. Like whiterock said, that's not advantageous to either party at the moment. Only tea party types are headed in that direction.
There's too much red tape and bureaucratic stonewalling and you need to stop supporting it if you really want solutions.
You have a bigger problem than me if you have to defend a lack of sympathy for people who died horrible deaths while trying to find a better life.
Burglars break into homes to find a better life too. Bank robbers rob banks to find a better life. Car thieves steal cars to find a better life. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
excellent pointGolem said:Booray said:Doc Holliday said:You have a bigger problem than you realize,Booray said:Golem said:There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
People aren't voting republican because of Judeo-Christian moral positions. They're voting in Tea party types because they don't trust our system anymore. A system that every single democrat wants to expand.
A rational position is that congress needs to allocate funds and competence to fix immigration and streamline it. Like whiterock said, that's not advantageous to either party at the moment. Only tea party types are headed in that direction.
There's too much red tape and bureaucratic stonewalling and you need to stop supporting it if you really want solutions.
You have a bigger problem than me if you have to defend a lack of sympathy for people who died horrible deaths while trying to find a better life.
Burglars break into homes to find a better life too. Bank robbers rob banks to find a better life. Car thieves steal cars to find a better life.
Exactly how many tens of millions of illegals from central and south America can this country financially provide for over the foreseeable future...... if at some point we don't shut down access ?Booray said:Doc Holliday said:You have a bigger problem than you realize,Booray said:Golem said:There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
People aren't voting republican because of Judeo-Christian moral positions. They're voting in Tea party types because they don't trust our system anymore. A system that every single democrat wants to expand.
A rational position is that congress needs to allocate funds and competence to fix immigration and streamline it. Like whiterock said, that's not advantageous to either party at the moment. Only tea party types are headed in that direction.
There's too much red tape and bureaucratic stonewalling and you need to stop supporting it if you really want solutions.
You have a bigger problem than me if you have to defend a lack of sympathy for people who died horrible deaths while trying to find a better life.
Really believe this human wave from central and south America is going to end on its own at any point ?
Immigration policy is difficult and complicated. I have no problem with people arguing for stricter immigration laws or enforcement.
But not having sympathy for folks who die horrible deaths trying for a better life is just beyond the pale for me.
But not having sympathy for folks who die horrible deaths trying for a better life is just beyond the pale for me.
I'm arguing in favor of increasing immigration via streamlining the process...Booray said:Doc Holliday said:You have a bigger problem than you realize,Booray said:Golem said:There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
People aren't voting republican because of Judeo-Christian moral positions. They're voting in Tea party types because they don't trust our system anymore. A system that every single democrat wants to expand.
A rational position is that congress needs to allocate funds and competence to fix immigration and streamline it. Like whiterock said, that's not advantageous to either party at the moment. Only tea party types are headed in that direction.
There's too much red tape and bureaucratic stonewalling and you need to stop supporting it if you really want solutions.
You have a bigger problem than me if you have to defend a lack of sympathy for people who died horrible deaths while trying to find a better life.
I've got some painting to do this weekend. Where did you buy your broad brush?Booray said:Doc Holliday said:You have a bigger problem than you realize,Booray said:Golem said:There's no hate. There's simply zero sympathy for evil, greedy, selfish and entitled foreign invaders who illegally and completely dismissive and disdainful of our sovereignty, bring violence, rape, murder, addiction, and economic ruin to our country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.Booray said:Golem said:Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:Golem said:muddybrazos said:Well, we aren't even enforcing our own laws and the cartels are in complete control of the border. These people coming are being sent a message by our government and NGO's that are helping fund their journey that if they can get here then they can stay. The cartels are exploiting this and these poor people are just being caught in the crossfire.Golem said:
A car thief dies in a car wreck…zero sympathy.
A murderer accidentally shoots and kills himself…zero sympathy.
A burglar falls from the window he's breaking into and dies…zero sympathy.
An illegal violates our borders and sovereignty and dies committing that crime…zero sympathy.
If you want to live with less risk, don't violate the law.
They are choosing to break the law. Certainly democrat politicians are complicit, but it doesn't change the fact that these people are knowingly violating our laws. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Desperate people trying to provide for their family sometimes do "stupid" things.
Evil, selfish, greedy, and entitled people do too. There's tractor trailers full of them.
Conservatism has morphed from a thousand points of light to a black hole of hate.
The only hate here is your obvious hatred for your country and fellow citizens.
"Zero sympathy" might not be a synonym for hate, but it is not really a gospel inspired position..
People aren't voting republican because of Judeo-Christian moral positions. They're voting in Tea party types because they don't trust our system anymore. A system that every single democrat wants to expand.
A rational position is that congress needs to allocate funds and competence to fix immigration and streamline it. Like whiterock said, that's not advantageous to either party at the moment. Only tea party types are headed in that direction.
There's too much red tape and bureaucratic stonewalling and you need to stop supporting it if you really want solutions.
You have a bigger problem than me if you have to defend a lack of sympathy for people who died horrible deaths while trying to find a better life.
Booray said:
Immigration policy is difficult and complicated. I have no problem with people arguing for stricter immigration laws or enforcement.
But not having sympathy for folks who die horrible deaths trying for a better life is just beyond the pale for me.
When the uninsured illegal kills your family in a car wreck that never should have happened because he shouldn't have been in the country at all, you can tend his wounds. Love on him and let your family get cold in the husk what was their car.
As for me, zero sympathy.
and as a result you paint all conservatives with the same brush. Makes senseBooray said:
Immigration policy is difficult and complicated. I have no problem with people arguing for stricter immigration laws or enforcement.
But not having sympathy for folks who die horrible deaths trying for a better life is just beyond the pale for me.
Not trying to paint all conservatives as anything. Just those that post here that they have no sympathy for people who were fried to death.
I've seen it firsthand.Booray said:
Not trying to paint all conservatives as anything. Just those that post here that they have no sympathy for people who were fried to death.
I want more immigrants, we need more immigrants and I feel awful for them.
We need to simultaneously increase immigration, while making drug and human trafficking across the border damn near impossible.