Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Whats their biggest business? You dont think taking away their biggest business would cripple them?

I never disparaged border workers. I pointed out you prefer using of individual stories and talks you have had with drs border patrol bishops policeman etc.

I know a country that is comprised of about 87% labor from other countries. The visitors (there is no path to citizenship) control the expats/temporary immigrantgs with strong Visa control. Non citizens (around 87%) cant have a bank acount go to school buy a car rent housing buy groceries get paid etc etc without presenting a valid visa. They are surrounded on several borders with poor countries. Of course America doesnt need or want anywhere near that % of migrant labor. While a greqt number of the immigrants are from unskilled labor from Nepal, Pakistan, India and Bangledesh, they also hire skilled and professional workers from America, South Africa, Canada Irelend and Britian.

They excercise tight control with their visa system While they do have immigration points at the airport and other entry points, they have not resorted to a huuge wall.

https://sojo.net/articles/how-united-arab-emirates-country-90-percent-immigrants-handles-immigration

---

Still again...you are ignoring the basic question(s) .

If we cant effectively manage all the individuals who over stay visitor visas .......how in the world would our government effectively manage MILLIONS of new work visas every single year ? Because unlike any other country in the world....MILLIONS are what we are looking at....HERE.

If these MILLIONS of unskilled laborers can't find work.....who is going to feed them...for how long ? Who is going to provide shelter...provide medical care ? At what point do we finally stop this migration .....20 million, 40 million....never ?

Look big guy, if you are going to indefinitely ignore such basic questions of your work visa realities......just say so and I will quit asking .

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Whats their biggest business? You dont think taking away their biggest business would cripple them?

I never disparaged border workers. I pointed out you prefer using of individual stories and talks you have had with drs border patrol bishops policeman etc.

I know a country that is comprised of about 87% labor from other countries. The visitors (there is no path to citizenship) control the expats/temporary immigrantgs with strong Visa control. Non citizens (around 87%) cant have a bank acount go to school buy a car rent housing buy groceries get paid etc etc without presenting a valid visa. They are surrounded on several borders with poor countries. Of course America doesnt need or want anywhere near that % of migrant labor. While a greqt number of the immigrants are from unskilled labor from Nepal, Pakistan, India and Bangledesh, they also hire skilled and professional workers from America, South Africa, Canada Irelend and Britian.

They excercise tight control with their visa system While they do have immigration points at the airport and other entry points, they have not resorted to a huuge wall.

https://sojo.net/articles/how-united-arab-emirates-country-90-percent-immigrants-handles-immigration

---

And they do not have the bothersome protections the US Constitution affords to everyone, citizen or not, within the jurisdiction of US courts.

That is why we have historically focused all of our energy to defend the perimeter. Once someone gets that visa and enters the USA, there is no way to compel their return to their home country. Neither the American people nor the judicial branch of their government would tolerate the kinds of internal controls it takes to do what UAE does.

There is no more heartless class of Americans than consular officers in the visa line. No, no, no, no....all day every day. They often don't engage much in the local community, just to avoid being chased for visas.

Canada2017 said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Yes Cartels are amazig. If only there was a way America could stop feeding them...

---

As always you ignore the realities .

According to Border Patrol agents ( oh I forgot, in your world such individuals don't know anything ) the 2nd biggest business of the Mexican drug cartels is human trafficking .


With Biden allowing such incursions the cartels are making millions.

You still haven't explained to me how our government .....who is completely unable to manage , regulate and deport those who overstay their visitor visas.......

is magically going to be able to manage , regulate and deport those MILLIONS of central Americans arriving every year on your work visas.

---

It's easy to have a knee-jerk, pro-law enforcement reaction. Not everyone does the work of talking to actual law enforcement officers in order to confirm their bias. Hats off to you, sir.

whiterock said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Whats their biggest business? You dont think taking away their biggest business would cripple them?

I never disparaged border workers. I pointed out you prefer using of individual stories and talks you have had with drs border patrol bishops policeman etc.

I know a country that is comprised of about 87% labor from other countries. The visitors (there is no path to citizenship) control the expats/temporary immigrantgs with strong Visa control. Non citizens (around 87%) cant have a bank acount go to school buy a car rent housing buy groceries get paid etc etc without presenting a valid visa. They are surrounded on several borders with poor countries. Of course America doesnt need or want anywhere near that % of migrant labor. While a greqt number of the immigrants are from unskilled labor from Nepal, Pakistan, India and Bangledesh, they also hire skilled and professional workers from America, South Africa, Canada Irelend and Britian.

They excercise tight control with their visa system While they do have immigration points at the airport and other entry points, they have not resorted to a huuge wall.

https://sojo.net/articles/how-united-arab-emirates-country-90-percent-immigrants-handles-immigration

---

Neither the American people nor the judicial branch of their government would tolerate the kinds of internal controls it takes to do what UAE does.

---

Yep....but some folks like to pretend such differences don't exist or have no impact.

Ok Instead of welfare reform, controlling existing immigrants though stronger visa control, crippling the cartels by decimalizing drugs Lets keep on with the status quo, continue Nixons stupid drug war and maybe throw in a few miles of huuge walls. Watch it get worse and worse, complain about the "browning" of America and pretend theres no labor shortage. Dems blame repubs and repubs blame dems.. Sicem will have thread after thread complaining and pointing fingers with posters saying the same thing with 50 different combinations of words.

I never said the things you told me to explain
Let everyone in that wants a job
Create 2 million new jobs a year
create 10 million new jobs
Border control doesnt know what they are talking about
etc

I have said we need to have better control of immigration, including overstays, with better visa control.

You argue that we do no or cannot do it. If other countries can handle it why cant we? The numbers are bigger so get more computers.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

The numbers are bigger so get more computers.

---

There is no rational response to this .

None .

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

What makes sense to you……

1. Legalizing hard drugs like heroin knowing full well it would inevitably kill tens of thousands of Americans every year in addition to crippling the family structure of thousands more . Of course you once indicated you believed such deaths would be a form of 'survival of the fittest ' or 'natural selection '. To your credit you quickly backed away from such sentiments. However only you know if they really represent your current attitude.

2. That Mexican drug cartels would be financially devastated by legalizing drugs in the United States …totally ignoring the fact that the American mafia in no way was significantly damaged by the end of prohibition. The mafia merely adjusted their business models…..the Mexican drug cartels would utilize their billions to similarly adjust . It's silly to believe the cartels are incapable of adjusting . Meanwhile thousands of innocent people would certainly die of overdoses .

3. As another poster clearly pointed out …..attempting to use UAE as a comparison to the US situation is completely phoney.
The numbers involved, the far stricter judicial controls in UAE make any comparison invalid .

4. As always you completely ignore the question…..who are going to feed , shelter and educate these millions every year .
Saying it's just a matter of more computers is ludicrous.


Bottom line ….I am tired of this discussion . Your positions are incredibly destructive and we both know your personal priorities would be fundamentally unaffected with their implementation.

Over and out .

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

Yep...certainly sounds like an immigration system US voters would approve of .

Guess my friend simply 'forgot' to mention those little UAE nuances.

Canada2017 said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

Yep...certainly sounds like an immigration system US voters would approve of .

Guess my friend simply 'forgot' to mention those little UAE nuances.

---

LIQR is fundamentally dishonest. He's not worth a serious discussion.

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

whiterock said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

More inconvenient realities .

whiterock said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

We currently have a system that prohibits employers from hiring workers without proof of citizenship and identity, the I-9.

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

We currently have a system that prohibits employers from hiring workers without proof of citizenship and identity, the I-9.

---

Been on the books for many years......rarely utilized or enforced.

If an employee lies about their social security number to their employer then that employer is off the hook for hiring them. Change that loophole and we can make a real difference.

Wangchung said:

---

If an employee lies about their social security number to their employer then that employer is off the hook for hiring them. Change that loophole and we can make a real difference.

---

Phony social security cards have been common for at least 40 years .

Canada2017 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

If an employee lies about their social security number to their employer then that employer is off the hook for hiring them. Change that loophole and we can make a real difference.

---

Phony social security cards have been common for at least 40 years .

---

Ask LIQR about the EID and if can be faked. He's calling for a national ID card to copy the UAE. Everyone has one, including nationals.

Golem said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

If an employee lies about their social security number to their employer then that employer is off the hook for hiring them. Change that loophole and we can make a real difference.

---

Phony social security cards have been common for at least 40 years .

---

Ask LIQR about the EID and if can be faked. He's calling for a national ID card to copy the UAE. Everyone has one, including nationals.

---

Americans would never accept UAE immigration regulation policies…and LIQR knows it .

Just asking Americans to produce an ID to vote has some folks all worked up .

Papers, please?

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

We currently have a system that prohibits employers from hiring workers without proof of citizenship and identity, the I-9.

---

DEAD wrong.

eVerify is not mandatory. It is not timely. The employee in question must be allowed to work until all appeals are exhausted, a process which will take months, and could approach a year, in the case of federal contractors.

What we really have is a voluntary system (due to civil rights concerns) that seeks to primarily verify Social Security Numbers are valid (as many, many illegals obtain fraudulent SS cards for the purpose of seeking employment) for federal employees, federal contractors, and major corporations with risk management departments. Small business (who employs roughly half of all workers) almost uniformly does not comply. (Thus, it is higher wage employees who are protected from competition from lower wage illegal immigrants, leaving entry and unskilled workers to bear the brunt of depressed wages caused by illegal immigration. Funny how that works out, huh.)

NOTE: the Social Security system does not care about citizenship. It cares about collecting SS withholding and paying SS benefits. Same is true about IRS. They only enforce non-payment. Finally, and most importantly, failing eVerify does not trigger an ICE enforcement team to arrest, detain, and deport the individual.

Saying we are half-assing it on enforcement to prevent illegal immigrants form gaining employment is arguably a rather significant overstatement.

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

We currently have a system that prohibits employers from hiring workers without proof of citizenship and identity, the I-9.

---

DEAD wrong.

eVerify is not mandatory. It is not timely. The employee in question must be allowed to work until all appeals are exhausted, a process which will take months, and could approach a year, in the case of federal contractors.

What we really have is a voluntary system (due to civil rights concerns) that seeks to primarily verify Social Security Numbers are valid (as many, many illegals obtain fraudulent SS cards for the purpose of seeking employment) for federal employees, federal contractors, and major corporations with risk management departments. Small business (who employs roughly half of all workers) almost uniformly does not comply. (Thus, it is higher wage employees who are protected from competition from lower wage illegal immigrants, leaving entry and unskilled workers to bear the brunt of depressed wages caused by illegal immigration. Funny how that works out, huh.)

NOTE: the Social Security system does not care about citizenship. It cares about collecting SS withholding and paying SS benefits. Same is true about IRS. They only enforce non-payment. Finally, and most importantly, failing eVerify does not trigger an ICE enforcement team to arrest, detain, and deport the individual.

Saying we are half-assing it on enforcement to prevent illegal immigrants form gaining employment is arguably a rather significant overstatement.

---

Dead right on the law.

I don't see how you can read IRCA any other way but you do you

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

We currently have a system that prohibits employers from hiring workers without proof of citizenship and identity, the I-9.

---

DEAD wrong.

eVerify is not mandatory. It is not timely. The employee in question must be allowed to work until all appeals are exhausted, a process which will take months, and could approach a year, in the case of federal contractors.

What we really have is a voluntary system (due to civil rights concerns) that seeks to primarily verify Social Security Numbers are valid (as many, many illegals obtain fraudulent SS cards for the purpose of seeking employment) for federal employees, federal contractors, and major corporations with risk management departments. Small business (who employs roughly half of all workers) almost uniformly does not comply. (Thus, it is higher wage employees who are protected from competition from lower wage illegal immigrants, leaving entry and unskilled workers to bear the brunt of depressed wages caused by illegal immigration. Funny how that works out, huh.)

NOTE: the Social Security system does not care about citizenship. It cares about collecting SS withholding and paying SS benefits. Same is true about IRS. They only enforce non-payment. Finally, and most importantly, failing eVerify does not trigger an ICE enforcement team to arrest, detain, and deport the individual.

Saying we are half-assing it on enforcement to prevent illegal immigrants form gaining employment is arguably a rather significant overstatement.

---

Dead right on the law.

I don't see how you can read IRCA any other way but you do you

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It's not about 'reading" the law. It's about what an employer knows. If they don't KNOW someone is an illegal.....

whiterock said:

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quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

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Golem said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

We currently have a system that prohibits employers from hiring workers without proof of citizenship and identity, the I-9.

---

DEAD wrong.

eVerify is not mandatory. It is not timely. The employee in question must be allowed to work until all appeals are exhausted, a process which will take months, and could approach a year, in the case of federal contractors.

What we really have is a voluntary system (due to civil rights concerns) that seeks to primarily verify Social Security Numbers are valid (as many, many illegals obtain fraudulent SS cards for the purpose of seeking employment) for federal employees, federal contractors, and major corporations with risk management departments. Small business (who employs roughly half of all workers) almost uniformly does not comply. (Thus, it is higher wage employees who are protected from competition from lower wage illegal immigrants, leaving entry and unskilled workers to bear the brunt of depressed wages caused by illegal immigration. Funny how that works out, huh.)

NOTE: the Social Security system does not care about citizenship. It cares about collecting SS withholding and paying SS benefits. Same is true about IRS. They only enforce non-payment. Finally, and most importantly, failing eVerify does not trigger an ICE enforcement team to arrest, detain, and deport the individual.

Saying we are half-assing it on enforcement to prevent illegal immigrants form gaining employment is arguably a rather significant overstatement.

---

Dead right on the law.

I don't see how you can read IRCA any other way but you do you

---

It's not about 'reading" the law. It's about what an employer knows. If they don't KNOW someone is an illegal.....

---

And you can get sued by guessing incorrectly .

Canada2017 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

We currently have a system that prohibits employers from hiring workers without proof of citizenship and identity, the I-9.

---

DEAD wrong.

eVerify is not mandatory. It is not timely. The employee in question must be allowed to work until all appeals are exhausted, a process which will take months, and could approach a year, in the case of federal contractors.

What we really have is a voluntary system (due to civil rights concerns) that seeks to primarily verify Social Security Numbers are valid (as many, many illegals obtain fraudulent SS cards for the purpose of seeking employment) for federal employees, federal contractors, and major corporations with risk management departments. Small business (who employs roughly half of all workers) almost uniformly does not comply. (Thus, it is higher wage employees who are protected from competition from lower wage illegal immigrants, leaving entry and unskilled workers to bear the brunt of depressed wages caused by illegal immigration. Funny how that works out, huh.)

NOTE: the Social Security system does not care about citizenship. It cares about collecting SS withholding and paying SS benefits. Same is true about IRS. They only enforce non-payment. Finally, and most importantly, failing eVerify does not trigger an ICE enforcement team to arrest, detain, and deport the individual.

Saying we are half-assing it on enforcement to prevent illegal immigrants form gaining employment is arguably a rather significant overstatement.

---

Dead right on the law.

I don't see how you can read IRCA any other way but you do you

---

It's not about 'reading" the law. It's about what an employer knows. If they don't KNOW someone is an illegal.....

---

And you can get sued by guessing incorrectly .

---

"Just follow directions and nothing bad will happen."

quash said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Made sense to me. I have used UAE as an example of a country controlling immigration with strong visas. You have told me it would t work because the population of America is so much bigger than the UAE. They are 85% migrant labor and control it well. America could use the same technology to to control a much smaller %

Or just maintain the status quo and gripe.

---

The UAE regularly deports immigrants they don't want. They keep tabs on ALL of them and don't even let them mail a letter without an EID. They enforce borders by using automatic weapons and the Rub' al Khali. They jail and deport people for minor infractions like saying a mean thing to a contact on WhatsApp. They prevent families from joining workers. They jail you if you violate an employment contract.

You support that system? You think American politicians will pass that system?

I'd be ok with most of it, plus a wall (Rub' al Khali) and well advertised and posted land mine fields. You down? Deport everyone first and invite only single workers for a limited renewable time?

---

almost every country with a robust guest worker program also has a "work permit" system for citizens. Employers must refuse to hire anyone without a work permit, citizen or not. That creates a situation where illegal immigration isn't so much of a problem - illegals cannot take jobs from citizens. If those illegals have enough money pay for their lifestyle, great. That's a boost to the economy. If they don't, they have to go home. But we don't have a work permit system in America, so we have no internal control to reserve jobs for citizens and legal residents. Ergo we focus all our effort on defending the perimeter, as once someone gets thru, we are powerless to prevent them from flipping burgers at McDonalds (which would be a better lifestyle than most people in the 3rd world currently have).

Who among us is in support of requiring American citizens to get a work permit in order to work?
Will courts go along with such a program?
How could such a program be used or abused by one political party or the other?

We are not likely to have a work permit procedure to help us control illegal immigration.

---

We currently have a system that prohibits employers from hiring workers without proof of citizenship and identity, the I-9.

---

DEAD wrong.

eVerify is not mandatory. It is not timely. The employee in question must be allowed to work until all appeals are exhausted, a process which will take months, and could approach a year, in the case of federal contractors.

What we really have is a voluntary system (due to civil rights concerns) that seeks to primarily verify Social Security Numbers are valid (as many, many illegals obtain fraudulent SS cards for the purpose of seeking employment) for federal employees, federal contractors, and major corporations with risk management departments. Small business (who employs roughly half of all workers) almost uniformly does not comply. (Thus, it is higher wage employees who are protected from competition from lower wage illegal immigrants, leaving entry and unskilled workers to bear the brunt of depressed wages caused by illegal immigration. Funny how that works out, huh.)

NOTE: the Social Security system does not care about citizenship. It cares about collecting SS withholding and paying SS benefits. Same is true about IRS. They only enforce non-payment. Finally, and most importantly, failing eVerify does not trigger an ICE enforcement team to arrest, detain, and deport the individual.

Saying we are half-assing it on enforcement to prevent illegal immigrants form gaining employment is arguably a rather significant overstatement.

---

Dead right on the law.

I don't see how you can read IRCA any other way but you do you

---

It's not about 'reading" the law. It's about what an employer knows. If they don't KNOW someone is an illegal.....

---

And you can get sued by guessing incorrectly .

---

"Just follow directions and nothing bad will happen."

---

Yeah......that always is the case . Especially when dealing with governmental mediocrities .