Sorry, but you're way off. It was 10 of 15,200, but even those 10 were validated when they contacted the voters. That's the problem here. Folks, very smart folks, don't do the research. Instead, they believe Trump and his cronies. Every single one of Trump's Georgia claims was clearly and easily refuted. One hand recount, one machine recount, multiple audits, 15,200 absentee ballots pulled. Yet, you still believe Trump and his team, who could not convince even his own appointee judges that he had actual evidence of fraud.whiterock said:In an effort to prove it couldn't have happened, you showed how it did. 10 of 396 is 2.5% of ballots.sombear said:Below was the process for the random sample audit of 15,200 absentee ballots that showed no evidence of fraud. Note that this audit followed GA's 2-step signature verification process, which verifies signatures both at the application stage and the vote stage.Quote:link with details of the audit procedures used?Quote:GA GOP and several audits went above and beyond. Seriously, research it.Quote:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.Quote:Quote:Quote:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancyQuote:
They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
Investigators broke into 18 two-member inspection teams to evaluate voter signatures, comparing them with voter registration forms, absentee ballot applications, passports and other government documents. The looked for word and letter spacing, slant, size, flourishes and alignment.
When at least one member of a team believed a signature didn't match, the ballot envelope was submitted for further review. Two three-member investigation teams evaluated questionable signatures.
In all, investigation teams scrutinized 396 questionable signatures on ballot envelopes. All but 10 of them were accepted as valid, and then investigators contacted voters to verify those ballots.
Georgia law requires voters to be notified when their absentee ballots are rejected, giving them a chance to verify their identities.
2.5% of 1.7m is 43k questionable ballots, in an election decided by 11k votes.
The math here is very clear. If we do a David Boies level hell-for-leather ballot inspection, Trump wins GA.
So many levels of things to be concerned about. 7m ballot request forms mailed out in an electorate of 5.6m people, unsupervised ballot drop boxes, counting irregularities in blue counties, etc..... The assertion there was no fraud, that their could have been no fraud, is fatuous to the point of insulting the intelligence of the listener.
Close election results can create a free-for-all, often decided by the side that wants it most. neverTrumpers didn't want it in the first place, not-so-secretly happy that the election ratified their sensibilities, and they smirked like Pilate at being able to wash their hands without any water. And if we're going to be critical of Trump, lets not spare the 6% of GA Republicans who voted for Biden, costing us two Senate seats. neverTrumpers in GA were the far bigger problems than Democrat voter fraud, frankly..... Kemp & Raffensberger were unwilling to admit any irregularities for fear it would cast a cloud over their future political careers, then quietly amended election law in ways that sharply reduced mail-in voting. I wouldn't offer bodily fluids to those two if their guts were on fire.
Trump charged by Justice Department for efforts to overturn 2020 election
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Last: 2 yr ago by Jack Bauer
I've heard of motivated reasoning...I guess this is what you call motivated math.whiterock said:In an effort to prove it couldn't have happened, you showed how it did. 10 of 396 is 2.5% of ballots.sombear said:Below was the process for the random sample audit of 15,200 absentee ballots that showed no evidence of fraud. Note that this audit followed GA's 2-step signature verification process, which verifies signatures both at the application stage and the vote stage.Quote:link with details of the audit procedures used?Quote:GA GOP and several audits went above and beyond. Seriously, research it.Quote:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.Quote:Quote:Quote:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancyQuote:
They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
Investigators broke into 18 two-member inspection teams to evaluate voter signatures, comparing them with voter registration forms, absentee ballot applications, passports and other government documents. The looked for word and letter spacing, slant, size, flourishes and alignment.
When at least one member of a team believed a signature didn't match, the ballot envelope was submitted for further review. Two three-member investigation teams evaluated questionable signatures.
In all, investigation teams scrutinized 396 questionable signatures on ballot envelopes. All but 10 of them were accepted as valid, and then investigators contacted voters to verify those ballots.
Georgia law requires voters to be notified when their absentee ballots are rejected, giving them a chance to verify their identities.
2.5% of 1.7m is 43k questionable ballots, in an election decided by 11k votes.
The math here is very clear. If we do a David Boies level hell-for-leather ballot inspection, Trump wins GA.
There is more wrong than that. The assumptions built into figuring a way how a candidate can win is ridiculous. Trump lost by 70 electoral votes. He would have needed multiple States for the mathmatical gymnastics to go in his favor. Not to mention, if you open up the Biden win States, do you open up the Trump win States for such scrutiny? It is ridiculous, under the existing rules of 2020 Trump lost. End of story. Geez, get over it. It was not even close.sombear said:Sorry, but you're way off. It was 10 of 15,200, but even those 10 were validated when they contacted the voters. That's the problem here. Folks, very smart folks, don't do the research. Instead, they believe Trump and his cronies. Every single one of Trump's Georgia claims was clearly and easily refuted. One hand recount, one machine recount, multiple audits, 15,200 absentee ballots pulled. Yet, you still believe Trump and his team, who could not convince even his own appointee judges that he had actual evidence of fraud.whiterock said:In an effort to prove it couldn't have happened, you showed how it did. 10 of 396 is 2.5% of ballots.sombear said:Below was the process for the random sample audit of 15,200 absentee ballots that showed no evidence of fraud. Note that this audit followed GA's 2-step signature verification process, which verifies signatures both at the application stage and the vote stage.Quote:link with details of the audit procedures used?Quote:GA GOP and several audits went above and beyond. Seriously, research it.Quote:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.Quote:Quote:Quote:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancyQuote:
They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
Investigators broke into 18 two-member inspection teams to evaluate voter signatures, comparing them with voter registration forms, absentee ballot applications, passports and other government documents. The looked for word and letter spacing, slant, size, flourishes and alignment.
When at least one member of a team believed a signature didn't match, the ballot envelope was submitted for further review. Two three-member investigation teams evaluated questionable signatures.
In all, investigation teams scrutinized 396 questionable signatures on ballot envelopes. All but 10 of them were accepted as valid, and then investigators contacted voters to verify those ballots.
Georgia law requires voters to be notified when their absentee ballots are rejected, giving them a chance to verify their identities.
2.5% of 1.7m is 43k questionable ballots, in an election decided by 11k votes.
The math here is very clear. If we do a David Boies level hell-for-leather ballot inspection, Trump wins GA.
So many levels of things to be concerned about. 7m ballot request forms mailed out in an electorate of 5.6m people, unsupervised ballot drop boxes, counting irregularities in blue counties, etc..... The assertion there was no fraud, that their could have been no fraud, is fatuous to the point of insulting the intelligence of the listener.
Close election results can create a free-for-all, often decided by the side that wants it most. neverTrumpers didn't want it in the first place, not-so-secretly happy that the election ratified their sensibilities, and they smirked like Pilate at being able to wash their hands without any water. And if we're going to be critical of Trump, lets not spare the 6% of GA Republicans who voted for Biden, costing us two Senate seats. neverTrumpers in GA were the far bigger problems than Democrat voter fraud, frankly..... Kemp & Raffensberger were unwilling to admit any irregularities for fear it would cast a cloud over their future political careers, then quietly amended election law in ways that sharply reduced mail-in voting. I wouldn't offer bodily fluids to those two if their guts were on fire.
If we're honest, both 2016 and 2020 were anomalous in their voting behavior, but don't let that get in the way of your preferred assumptions.
How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.Oldbear83 said:
If we're honest, both 2016 and 2020 were anomalous in their voting behavior, but don't let that get in the way of your preferred assumptions.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate...
2020 was a pandemic year which allowed all sorts of accommodations get into practice, should they have been? I don't think so. I think Trump hatred is so high that they took risks they never would have against anyone else. Trump was and is a unique blowhard that anything he says will be discounted. Dems LOVE to run against him. GOP going to do it again and they will take more risks. People will allow because the one calling them out, is Donald...
Funny, the one thing they could have won on was never challenged by Trump and his clown team of attorneys. They went after everything else, but the one thing they could have proved, nah! Regardless, each of those votes were from real people and counted, there has been no evidence they were fraudulent.
So, I do not understand why you would expect normal election results from 2 very elections featuring horrible candidates and changed rules. They were anything but normal.
God willing, if Trump is out of the race, we can get some semblance of normalcy back.
"How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
It can smell all you want it to. It was legal, if for no other reason that NO ONE challenged the States in Court and won. (I know Deep State, Courts in bed with Dems and media against poor Donald)Oldbear83 said:
"How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
So, WHY didn't Trump challenge the States on following and changing their processes like Barr told him? Why did he keep chasing fraud that he was told was not there. It stinks. But, nothing was proven in multiple attempts. At some point you have to accept that you got beat and move on. To keep saying the same things that are not proven kills credibility. I tip my cap to Abrams and her cronies that pulled off 2020, they beat the GOP and got an old man in a basement elected...
That said, I HOPE 2024 is not a repeat of 2016 and 2020, I am right there with you on that! Unfortunately, it looks like it will be as everything is aligning for it with Trump in the lead. If Trump is the nominee, it will be 2020 all over.
I have voted Republican since Reagan. Problem is that NO ONE motivates the other side more than Donald and we are teeing it up for them. I really think Halley is the toughest out for them in the General.
I submit you're combining two distinct issues. Yes, HRC was the Dems' anointed one, but she also was always a bad candidate. Her unfavorables were always crazy high. Folks were sick of the Clintons. And her server issues and her dismissive response to it (along with Comey slamming her at the worst possible time) took it to another level. She was the least popular Dem candidate since Dukakis, and we know how bad he lost.Oldbear83 said:
"How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.sombear said:I submit you're combining two distinct issues. Yes, HRC was the Dems' anointed one, but she also was always a bad candidate. Her unfavorables were always crazy high. Folks were sick of the Clintons. And her server issues and her dismissive response to it (along with Comey slamming her at the worst possible time) took it to another level. She was the least popular Dem candidate since Dukakis, and we know how bad he lost.Oldbear83 said:
"How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
Trump was not thumped by Biden, he simply lost in a few critical states. We can and should discuss how Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona will vote, and who can win those states, but pretending Trump is not at least as strong as any other Republican would be delusional.
I'm a DeSantis guy, but I won't pretend the numbers are different just to sell his chances. Any Republican has a long hill to climb, and whoever wins the party nomination better be MAGA-friendly, or he is toast before he starts the General Campaign.
Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
I agree with all of this. But I do not think Trump is anywhere near as palatable as he was in 2016 or 2020 either. In my view, J6 and all the indictments will be fatal in swing states/with swing voters. Biden is such a disaster that Trump will have a fighting chance, but I think it's a longshot.Oldbear83 said:I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.sombear said:I submit you're combining two distinct issues. Yes, HRC was the Dems' anointed one, but she also was always a bad candidate. Her unfavorables were always crazy high. Folks were sick of the Clintons. And her server issues and her dismissive response to it (along with Comey slamming her at the worst possible time) took it to another level. She was the least popular Dem candidate since Dukakis, and we know how bad he lost.Oldbear83 said:
"How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
Trump was not thumped by Biden, he simply lost in a few critical states. We can and should discuss how Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona will vote, and who can win those states, but pretending Trump is not at least as strong as any other Republican would be delusional.
I'm a DeSantis guy, but I won't pretend the numbers are different just to sell his chances. Any Republican has a long hill to climb, and whoever wins the party nomination better be MAGA-friendly, or he is toast before he starts the General Campaign.
As I said, I am backing DeSantis this round, but we need to understand that ignoring Trump is not an option, at least in terms of the legal attacks on Trump. Winning the White House means the GOP nominee will have to get the party behind him, and the biggest damage done by the media and Democrats has been to get Republicans to go after each other.sombear said:I agree with all of this. But I do not think Trump is anywhere near as palatable as he was in 2016 or 2020 either. In my view, J6 and all the indictments will be fatal in swing states/with swing voters. Biden is such a disaster that Trump will have a fighting chance, but I think it's a longshot.Oldbear83 said:I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.sombear said:I submit you're combining two distinct issues. Yes, HRC was the Dems' anointed one, but she also was always a bad candidate. Her unfavorables were always crazy high. Folks were sick of the Clintons. And her server issues and her dismissive response to it (along with Comey slamming her at the worst possible time) took it to another level. She was the least popular Dem candidate since Dukakis, and we know how bad he lost.Oldbear83 said:
"How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
Trump was not thumped by Biden, he simply lost in a few critical states. We can and should discuss how Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona will vote, and who can win those states, but pretending Trump is not at least as strong as any other Republican would be delusional.
I'm a DeSantis guy, but I won't pretend the numbers are different just to sell his chances. Any Republican has a long hill to climb, and whoever wins the party nomination better be MAGA-friendly, or he is toast before he starts the General Campaign.
We have to start by attacking Biden for all his crimes, including using the government to go after his biggest political opponent, There is a chance that if the public turns against the prosecutors, the cases will collapse and we can then focus on issues and policies to choose the GOP nominee.
For now, the first thing we need to do is agree that we will all support whoever wins the nomination. I notice Trump's share of the GOP vote is brittle, so if the legal attacks are no longer the focus, I believe the voters will make their decision on better grounds, like economic and border policies and practices.
Oldbear83 said:I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.sombear said:I submit you're combining two distinct issues. Yes, HRC was the Dems' anointed one, but she also was always a bad candidate. Her unfavorables were always crazy high. Folks were sick of the Clintons. And her server issues and her dismissive response to it (along with Comey slamming her at the worst possible time) took it to another level. She was the least popular Dem candidate since Dukakis, and we know how bad he lost.Oldbear83 said:
"How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
Trump was not thumped by Biden, he simply lost in a few critical states. We can and should discuss how Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona will vote, and who can win those states, but pretending Trump is not at least as strong as any other Republican would be delusional.
I'm a DeSantis guy, but I won't pretend the numbers are different just to sell his chances. Any Republican has a long hill to climb, and whoever wins the party nomination better be MAGA-friendly, or he is toast before he starts the General Campaign.
Will all the (illegal) voting laws be reverted back to pre covid? If not, republicans have zero chance so just buckle up.
How has the CHIPS Act damaged our nation and people? Every president has done good and bad things, you do a disservice to your point by being hyperbolic.Oldbear83 said:
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.
Thanks for your opinion, Hunter.Bestweekeverr said:How has the CHIPS Act damaged our nation and people? Every president has done good and bad things, you do a disservice to your point by being hyperbolic.Oldbear83 said:
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.
Now go pay your child support.
Oldbear83 said:Thanks for your opinion, Hunter.Bestweekeverr said:How has the CHIPS Act damaged our nation and people? Every president has done good and bad things, you do a disservice to your point by being hyperbolic.Oldbear83 said:
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.
Now go pay your child support.
How many times have you looked at his dick pics today? Be honest.
some were, some werentFre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.sombear said:I submit you're combining two distinct issues. Yes, HRC was the Dems' anointed one, but she also was always a bad candidate. Her unfavorables were always crazy high. Folks were sick of the Clintons. And her server issues and her dismissive response to it (along with Comey slamming her at the worst possible time) took it to another level. She was the least popular Dem candidate since Dukakis, and we know how bad he lost.Oldbear83 said:
"How does nontypical voting make it rigged? It is not like had great choices for candidates.
Trump won because he ran against the one person on earth he could beat - Hillary Clinton. Someone actually more unlikeable than Trump. Hillary makes Nixon look warm and compassionate..."
First, you are looking at a very small portion of what happened, and pretending nothing else counts.
A lot of 2020 smells to high heaven, especially the convenient change in mail-in voting requirements just before the election.
But your second part is BS. Don't forget Trump beat out a large field of GOP candidates, he wasn't gifted the nomination, and most polls in 2016 indicated Hillary was the strongest option for the Donks, which was why they rigged the primaries to keep Sanders, Webb and others out of the running.
The 'Hillary was the only candidate worse than Trump' crap was sold by Never Trumpers and Democrats so they could ignore their blunders.
The only thing more stupid than selling that lie now, is pretending 2024 is going to be a repeat of 2016 or 2020. Some states have cleaned up their rules for mail ballots, others have not, the media is going to be all-in for whatever candidate the Donks nominate, and the election will be decided by how sane the GOP and Donk parties are during the Spring.
The one thing Republicans and anyone who loves our country should commit to now, is whoever wins the GOP nomination gets their vote. Just as McCain or Romney, RINOs though they were, would have been better than Obama, so any Republican is better than any Democrat in 2024.
Trump was not thumped by Biden, he simply lost in a few critical states. We can and should discuss how Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona will vote, and who can win those states, but pretending Trump is not at least as strong as any other Republican would be delusional.
I'm a DeSantis guy, but I won't pretend the numbers are different just to sell his chances. Any Republican has a long hill to climb, and whoever wins the party nomination better be MAGA-friendly, or he is toast before he starts the General Campaign.
Will all the (illegal) voting laws be reverted back to pre covid? If not, republicans have zero chance so just buckle up.
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart
Not my thing. I can understand why you would expect others to share your interests, but no, hard pass.Bestweekeverr said:Oldbear83 said:Thanks for your opinion, Hunter.Bestweekeverr said:How has the CHIPS Act damaged our nation and people? Every president has done good and bad things, you do a disservice to your point by being hyperbolic.Oldbear83 said:
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.
Now go pay your child support.
How many times have you looked at his dick pics today? Be honest.
Oldbear83 said:Not my thing. I can understand why you would expect others to share your interests, but no, hard pass.Bestweekeverr said:Oldbear83 said:Thanks for your opinion, Hunter.Bestweekeverr said:How has the CHIPS Act damaged our nation and people? Every president has done good and bad things, you do a disservice to your point by being hyperbolic.Oldbear83 said:
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.
Now go pay your child support.
How many times have you looked at his dick pics today? Be honest.
You're the one bringing him up when you don't have a real argument.
No, you brought up Hunter by channeling his essence in your posts.Bestweekeverr said:Oldbear83 said:Not my thing. I can understand why you would expect others to share your interests, but no, hard pass.Bestweekeverr said:Oldbear83 said:Thanks for your opinion, Hunter.Bestweekeverr said:How has the CHIPS Act damaged our nation and people? Every president has done good and bad things, you do a disservice to your point by being hyperbolic.Oldbear83 said:
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.
Now go pay your child support.
How many times have you looked at his dick pics today? Be honest.
You're the one bringing him up when you don't have a real argument.
Go back and obey the restraining order this time, ya bum.
Asking what's harmful about the CHIPs act is channeling his essence? Instead of thinking of an answer all your brain can do is imagine Hunter Biden.Oldbear83 said:No, you brought up Hunter by channeling his essence in your posts.Bestweekeverr said:Oldbear83 said:Not my thing. I can understand why you would expect others to share your interests, but no, hard pass.Bestweekeverr said:Oldbear83 said:Thanks for your opinion, Hunter.Bestweekeverr said:How has the CHIPS Act damaged our nation and people? Every president has done good and bad things, you do a disservice to your point by being hyperbolic.Oldbear83 said:
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.
Now go pay your child support.
How many times have you looked at his dick pics today? Be honest.
You're the one bringing him up when you don't have a real argument.
Go back and obey the restraining order this time, ya bum.
Weak try, like your "art".Bestweekeverr said:Asking what's harmful about the CHIPs act is channeling his essence? Instead of thinking of an answer all your brain can do is imagine Hunter Biden.Oldbear83 said:No, you brought up Hunter by channeling his essence in your posts.Bestweekeverr said:Oldbear83 said:Not my thing. I can understand why you would expect others to share your interests, but no, hard pass.Bestweekeverr said:Oldbear83 said:Thanks for your opinion, Hunter.Bestweekeverr said:How has the CHIPS Act damaged our nation and people? Every president has done good and bad things, you do a disservice to your point by being hyperbolic.Oldbear83 said:
I submit you are pretending Joe Biden 2024 is somehow as palatable as Joe Biden 2020, when literally every policy from him has damaged the nation and our people.
Now go pay your child support.
How many times have you looked at his dick pics today? Be honest.
You're the one bringing him up when you don't have a real argument.
Go back and obey the restraining order this time, ya bum.
inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
2020 is over. The Dems outplayed the GOP, plain and simple. You cannot re-do the 2020 election. You cannot go back after his term is 3/4 done and un-elect Biden. Dem won, GOP lost... Sooner MAGA comes to that conclusion and moves forward, the better. I agree with Haley and others you can't keep re-playing 2020.whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
GOP has played it right, look at the number of voting loop-holes that were closed since. Make sure it doesn't happen again, sure. All for it. Make sure GOP State Legislators know what to look for and to be deligent, all for it. In Florida, since the hanging-chad debacle, all voting has been modernized and processes have been clean, including extended hours and timeframes, absentee and protocols at voting locations. Other States have to do that.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Redbrickbear said:Mitch Blood Green said:Doc Holliday said:
Its based entirely on First Amendment protected speech.
A lot of this indictment is people telling Trump that something isn't true and him being his autistic self and believing it anyways.
No DC judge or jury is going to stop it and they're going to throw him in jail. Its not maybe, it will happen.
This will divide the country like you've never seen.
He has the right to free speech. This indictment says he went beyond that taking efforts to have millions of our votes nullified.
It's never good when Abe Lincoln indicts you.
Abe Lincoln killed 600,000+ people, burned down whole cities, suspended constitutional liberties, arrested and imprisoned political enemies without trial, waged war on States without a declaration of war…for the crime of declaring their independence, etc.
You can't be serious.
Abe Lincoln did his job to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States when some sought to destroy it. Most of us are happy he was successful.
Trump did not poison the national identity. The rise of communist and socialist thought along with the mainstreaming of mental illness and pagan culture and pagan sexual morality did that. We have already decided that we will not be a nation when we let millions stream in through the southern border each year. We simply pay taxes to the central government that is selling us out.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Trump makes a convenient whipping boy for our own failures to reign in the oligarchs and administrative state masters who rule over us. It is not Trump's fault. It's our fault we lost our nation.
Are you kidding? Trump is the walking personification of an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Trump did not poison the national identity. The rise of communist and socialist thought along with the mainstreaming of mental illness and pagan culture and sexual morality did that. We have already decided that we will not be a nation when we let millions stream in through the southern border each year. We simply pay taxes to the central government that is selling us out.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Trump makes a convenient whipping boy for our own failures to reign in the oligarchs and administrative state masters who rule over us. It is not Trump's fault. It's our fault we lost our nation.
Apparently, he is not in the club.FLBear5630 said:Are you kidding? Trump is the walking personification of an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Trump did not poison the national identity. The rise of communist and socialist thought along with the mainstreaming of mental illness and pagan culture and sexual morality did that. We have already decided that we will not be a nation when we let millions stream in through the southern border each year. We simply pay taxes to the central government that is selling us out.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Trump makes a convenient whipping boy for our own failures to reign in the oligarchs and administrative state masters who rule over us. It is not Trump's fault. It's our fault we lost our nation.
He got himself thrown out of the club with his actions and his mouth! Look at his developments, use of Government subsidies and ability to keep getting access to money. He was in the club and then ran for President so he could run the Oligarchy. He is as much of an insider as any!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Apparently, he is not in the club.FLBear5630 said:Are you kidding? Trump is the walking personification of an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Trump did not poison the national identity. The rise of communist and socialist thought along with the mainstreaming of mental illness and pagan culture and sexual morality did that. We have already decided that we will not be a nation when we let millions stream in through the southern border each year. We simply pay taxes to the central government that is selling us out.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Trump makes a convenient whipping boy for our own failures to reign in the oligarchs and administrative state masters who rule over us. It is not Trump's fault. It's our fault we lost our nation.
He did not throw himself out of the club. Perhaps you missed where the Democrats and Administrative State compiled a dossier predicated on lies to serve as a campaign tool. That was before he was even elected. The guy was a billionaire who ruffled the feathers of the insiders. Now he is paying the price for crossing Queens Nancy and Hillary and their scum in the alphabet agencies.FLBear5630 said:He got himself thrown out of the club with his actions and his mouth! Look at his developments, use of Government subsidies and ability to keep getting access to money. He was in the club and then ran for President so he could run the Oligarchy. He is as much of an insider as any!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Apparently, he is not in the club.FLBear5630 said:Are you kidding? Trump is the walking personification of an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Trump did not poison the national identity. The rise of communist and socialist thought along with the mainstreaming of mental illness and pagan culture and sexual morality did that. We have already decided that we will not be a nation when we let millions stream in through the southern border each year. We simply pay taxes to the central government that is selling us out.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Trump makes a convenient whipping boy for our own failures to reign in the oligarchs and administrative state masters who rule over us. It is not Trump's fault. It's our fault we lost our nation.
Trump went from the inside to claiming he was an outsider. He was down and out before this latest grift started, he was down to reality TV. He was a liberal Democrat for most of his life! He just discovered he couldn't win on that side. His whole shtick was and is that he is an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:He did not throw himself out of the club. Perhaps you missed where the Democrats and Administrative State compiled a dossier predicated on lies to serve as a campaign tool. That was before he was even elected. The guy was a billionaire who ruffled the feathers of the insiders. Now he is paying the price for crossing Queens Nancy and Hillary and their scum in the alphabet agencies.FLBear5630 said:He got himself thrown out of the club with his actions and his mouth! Look at his developments, use of Government subsidies and ability to keep getting access to money. He was in the club and then ran for President so he could run the Oligarchy. He is as much of an insider as any!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Apparently, he is not in the club.FLBear5630 said:Are you kidding? Trump is the walking personification of an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Trump did not poison the national identity. The rise of communist and socialist thought along with the mainstreaming of mental illness and pagan culture and sexual morality did that. We have already decided that we will not be a nation when we let millions stream in through the southern border each year. We simply pay taxes to the central government that is selling us out.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Sometimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Trump makes a convenient whipping boy for our own failures to reign in the oligarchs and administrative state masters who rule over us. It is not Trump's fault. It's our fault we lost our nation.
Trump never ran for office as a democrat. He also used to be in some form or another pro-abortion, but he and the Turtle put Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett on the Court and now Roe is gone. Things change. People change.FLBear5630 said:Trump went from the inside to claiming he was an outsider. He was down and out before this latest grift started, he was down to reality TV. He was a liberal Democrat for most of his life! He just discovered he couldn't win on that side. His whole shtick was and is that he is an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:He did not throw himself out of the club. Perhaps you missed where the Democrats and Administrative State compiled a dossier predicated on lies to serve as a campaign tool. That was before he was even elected. The guy was a billionaire who ruffled the feathers of the insiders. Now he is paying the price for crossing Queens Nancy and Hillary and their scum in the alphabet agencies.FLBear5630 said:He got himself thrown out of the club with his actions and his mouth! Look at his developments, use of Government subsidies and ability to keep getting access to money. He was in the club and then ran for President so he could run the Oligarchy. He is as much of an insider as any!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Apparently, he is not in the club.FLBear5630 said:Are you kidding? Trump is the walking personification of an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Trump did not poison the national identity. The rise of communist and socialist thought along with the mainstreaming of mental illness and pagan culture and sexual morality did that. We have already decided that we will not be a nation when we let millions stream in through the southern border each year. We simply pay taxes to the central government that is selling us out.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Smetimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Trump makes a convenient whipping boy for our own failures to reign in the oligarchs and administrative state masters who rule over us. It is not Trump's fault. It's our fault we lost our nation.
Now, if people can stop using Trump as some avatar for either everything wrong or everything right in society, we might be able to make some progress. Or we might be too far gone like the Roman Empire of old.
He has changed political allegiances at least 5 times, whatever Party or lack of Party he can use for his benefit.Wrecks Quan Dough said:Trump never ran for office as a democrat. He also used to be in some form or another pro-abortion, but he and the Turtle put Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett on the Court and now Roe is gone. Things change. People change.FLBear5630 said:Trump went from the inside to claiming he was an outsider. He was down and out before this latest grift started, he was down to reality TV. He was a liberal Democrat for most of his life! He just discovered he couldn't win on that side. His whole shtick was and is that he is an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:He did not throw himself out of the club. Perhaps you missed where the Democrats and Administrative State compiled a dossier predicated on lies to serve as a campaign tool. That was before he was even elected. The guy was a billionaire who ruffled the feathers of the insiders. Now he is paying the price for crossing Queens Nancy and Hillary and their scum in the alphabet agencies.FLBear5630 said:He got himself thrown out of the club with his actions and his mouth! Look at his developments, use of Government subsidies and ability to keep getting access to money. He was in the club and then ran for President so he could run the Oligarchy. He is as much of an insider as any!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Apparently, he is not in the club.FLBear5630 said:Are you kidding? Trump is the walking personification of an oligarch!Wrecks Quan Dough said:Trump did not poison the national identity. The rise of communist and socialist thought along with the mainstreaming of mental illness and pagan culture and sexual morality did that. We have already decided that we will not be a nation when we let millions stream in through the southern border each year. We simply pay taxes to the central government that is selling us out.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:inaccurate tabulation of totals was not the problem.....Waco1947 said:Three recounts and all the same.whiterock said:In a razor-thin election, 11k vote difference, fraud/discrepancies are always at or above the margin. The only question is whether one has the fortitude to start counting hanging chads to eke out the win. GA Republican clearly don't.sombear said:whiterock said:sombear said:The GOP-led audits did, and they did not find a single discrepancywhiterock said:They did not look at signatures on mail in ballots......sombear said:Fulton conducted hand and machine recounts.whiterock said:a 2500 vote difference in FL vs a 11k vote difference in GA. (and comparable margins in other states). That is not a different universe. In FL 2000, there were two slates of FL electors standing ready to go until SCOTUS issued its final ruling WEEKS after the general election concluded. Highly analogous. and nobody alleged insurrection then.FLBear5630 said:Whoa. This was not a re-count of one State with a 200 vote difference. Trump wanted Pence to throw out legally submitted State electors in favor of alternates that favored him. The two are not in the same galaxy!whiterock said:Let me say the inconvenient part cleary: it is not illegal to try to use legal procedures to overturn an election you know/suspect you actually lost. Gore literally did that in Florida in 2020. He kept counting Democrat counties only, knowing that the statistical certainty that any errors would fall in his favor might close the gap. And it would have if SCOTUS hadn't stepped in and stopped the re-counting (harvesting of ballot errors). Dems knew what they were doing.FLBear5630 said:Disagree with you on this one. He told his VP, in his chain of command, to accept alternate electors against legal counsel. Pence's Attorneys and White House Counsel said it was not legal. Yet, Trump and his surrogates pushed on at multiple levels after the election was over. That is beyond politics, that is downright coup area.whiterock said:exactly. Article describes completely lawful efforts to engage in politics and win an election, to include legal theory to support such.Oldbear83 said:
When you depend on the NY Times to sell your argument, you don't really have a good argument.
People file lawsuits all the time knowing full well they are not likely to win...... Sometimes the objective is legal. Smetimes it is political. Sometimes it is both. And losing does not one a criminal make.
He also had legal advice that it was a viable plan.... And Pence went along with it until the last minute.
Since with Trump we all have to believe that he is speaking metaphorically, I find it more likely he found the power of being US President more enticing than money and was willing to do ANYTHING to keep it. That to me is more probable than he was speaking metaphorically, playing master-level political strategy.
That is not even going into the Georgia "find me votes" comments and strong-arming.
Noting illegal about pointing out that a more thorough adjudication of mail-in votes would possibly/likely change the outcome. Remember, the margins were, statistically speaking, razor thin. Would have been very easy to find 12k questionable ballots worthy of disqualification. See Florida 2000 and hanging chads for how to execute the program.
The guy is a stupid, loose cannon and gets what he deserves. He is on tape saying "find me 11k votes". Same with the Ukraine impeachment quid pro quo in exchange for investigating Biden. The guy continued to break the law and rely on everyone to believe he is speaking metaphorically. Well, it bit him here. Because words matter and he is dead to rights when taking at the letter of what he says to overturn an election he knew he lost.
False dilemma. Speaking plain truth may be inconvenient, but it is still truth. We now know conclusively that Biden got rich off of bribes from Ukraine and that Trump's phone call to Ukraine on the matter showed good stewardship of US taxpayer dollars.
Gore was stopped the same way Trump was stopped = by checks and balances. The system worked.
Democrats understand very clearly that the election isn't won until you take the oath of office. Challenging the results, to including using legal theories that have never before been tried, is not insurrection. It's liberty. You have the right to keep fighting until your opponent says "so help me God."
Razor thin? Biden had over 300 electors! Trump needed to "find" votes in multiple state. This was not a Trump/Gore.
False dilemma? You can't just blurt out statements like fine me 11k votes OR investigate Joe Biden and you will receive aid! On tape. You can poo-poo it as a non-issue, but he set himself up for the impeachment and his comments are why he is going to be indicted in GA. He wonders why he is in Court!!! He is a stupid, loose cannon. You say it is OK to play politics and try anything to win an election and then get butt-hurt when Trump is tried for his own words!
There is law for process on post-election certification (or not) of every elected official. In close elections, the losing party attempts to stop certification, and/or to reverse certification. Nothing remarkable about any of that. Happens every election. What's unique about electors is that there actually are TWO sets of electors elected on the ballot. So it's not like Trump conjured this all up (which is what Dems are trying to portray). He was contesting the election results the way election results are contested. Democrats just didn't like it, and were highly defensive because they had much to be defensive about.
A thorough recounting of GA mail-in votes from Fulton Co (a selective recount ala what Gore demanded in 2000) would have reversed the results of the GA election.....a near mathematical certainty. Throwing out ballots with obvious errors would have had the effect of removing Biden votes at a rate exceeding 4-1. But Ga officials refused to do it. Trump was right to be livid with anger.
Dude. You are not thinking clearly on this point.....
LOL not a single discrepancy. can you not hear how silly you sound when you say that?
If you took the time to study Georgia's system, you wouldn't be surprised. It's 2-step verification. Of course, that does not necessarily mean zero issues, but there aren't material issues that would be discovered in a recount.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Trump makes a convenient whipping boy for our own failures to reign in the oligarchs and administrative state masters who rule over us. It is not Trump's fault. It's our fault we lost our nation.
Now, if people can stop using Trump as some avatar for either everything wrong or everything right in society, we might be able to make some progress. Or we might be too far gone like the Roman Empire of old.
As for being a caricature, he does it to himself.
As President, he was fine up to about 2020, after that he just lost it. Since the 2020 election he has done as much to hurt this Nation as Biden. They both need to go.
"Outplayed" is quite the euphemism.FLBear5630 said:
2020 is over. The Dems outplayed the GOP, plain and simple. You cannot re-do the 2020 election. You cannot go back after his term is 3/4 done and un-elect Biden. Dem won, GOP lost... Sooner MAGA comes to that conclusion and moves forward, the better. I agree with Haley and others you can't keep re-playing 2020.
GOP has played it right, look at the number of voting loop-holes that were closed since. Make sure it doesn't happen again, sure. All for it. Make sure GOP State Legislators know what to look for and to be deligent, all for it. In Florida, since the hanging-chad debacle, all voting has been modernized and processes have been clean, including extended hours and timeframes, absentee and protocols at voting locations. Other States have to do that.
What I am sick of, and it has to stop if we are going to go forward as a Nation, is re-living 2020. Trump is poison to the National identity and how he works up people on the past. He needs to go away.
Focusing on the obvious fraud is not trying to re-do 2020. It's a necessary step to prevent the problems from costing us a chance to win 2024.
Dems never cease talking about 2000, 2016, etc...contested everything, alleged fraud and interference and all kinds of nonsense, all of it demonstrably not true. And they still win elections all the time. So the idea that because we are Republicans we cannot protest elections is, well.....it's poppycock.
You want the fraud to go away, do away with mail-in voting. Or require a mail-in ballot to be acquired at the county courthouse upon presentation of valid photo ID, with signature and a DNA sample. And outlaw voter harvesting. These are simple, "one man, one vote" protections that a vast majority of voters support.....