Doc Holliday said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Geez, give it a rest. Most people understand that we all most comply to laws to be a successful nation. Tribal, independence will get us nowhere.

This idea that the Colonist were united to fight big Government is ridiculous. Only 30% of the Colonists wanted to fight England. 20% were outright loyalist, the majority just wanted to live their lives. Even the 30% tried to work out it out with the British for 11 years, wanting to follow the laws if they could.

This notion that indicting Trump for 2020 is preposterous, is BS. He tried to install his own electors, at the very least it should be tried.

---

So did Clinton in 2016. Should she be tried?

This breaks into basically three camps:

1. Trump is the most luxurious president we've ever had. He's never done anything wrong.

2. Trump did some stupid ****, but it was not criminal, and previous politicians have done the same and unprosecuted. We don't throw out the Bill of Rights and become a banana republic because of our Trumpgasm.

3. Trumpgasms showing each other their T Face.

---

In my opinion, yes. Clinton should be tried. Why Trump didn't, I have no idea.

But, the fact she wasn't doesn't give Donald a pass for his actions after the 2020 election. He did everything he is accused! If you notice, the arguments against are not whether he did it but whether he should be charged or if they are really a crime. He tried to coerce votes, submit alternate electors, he pressured Pence, he put out false statements as an elected official, brought law suits he knew were wrong, instigated a crowd to storm Congress, and he did take the docs. Bottomline is he tried to prevent the transfer of power. There is no doubt he was outwardly against the transfer of power and took actions to get around it. So, sorry yes at the very least it should be tried.

---

But, the fact she wasn't doesn't give Donald a pass for his actions after the 2020 election.
Yes it does. Only banana republics have different systems of justice based on political party.

He did everything he is accused!
Provide evidence for crimes of intent.

If you notice, the arguments against are not whether he did it but whether he should be charged or if they are really a crime.
Correct. It is called the First Amendment.

He tried to coerce votes, submit alternate electors, he pressured Pence, he put out false statements as an elected official, brought law suits he knew were wrong,
None of that is illegal. If we outlaw species lawsuits then virtually every regressive ambulance chaser is out of business and in jail.

instigated a crowd to storm Congress, and he did take the docs.
None of that is in the indictment. So did Biden. So did VP Brown. So did Clinton. Charge all or charge none. We are not a banana republic.

Bottomline is he tried to prevent the transfer of power. There is no doubt he was outwardly against the transfer of power and took actions to get around it. So, sorry yes at the very least it should be tried.
For what crime? Bloviation is protected by the First Amendment.

At the end of the day is your Trumpgasm worth overturning the Constitution. One of the thing that makes America America is people get to say stupid things - otherwise we would imprison every person that claimed kids should wear masks and not be allowed to go to school due to a disease that killed fewer of them than the flu.

Ironically, Klanocrat regressive prosecutors continue to make up specious legal theories to derail Trump while charging him with filing specious lawsuits. Irony never lost on regressive Klanocrats.

---

If you really want to dig in. If the Trump DOJ could have prosecuted Hillary they would have. The FACT that they never were able to bring charges shows that they couldn't. Where is the investigation, Grand Jury and indictment of Hillary? Trump had 4 years to do it. So cut the Banana Republic crap. Only in Banana Republics do they prosecute on TV reports. So, apparently Hillary was smarter and covered her trail better than Trump because Trump is indicted and no one has had enough to indict Hillary or Bill. Luckily for Donald, we are not a Banana Republic and he will be able to defend himself.

Actually, they are crimes! There are three indictments in place and trials set. Your point? What crime? Well, several different Grand Juries seem to think there are numerous crimes. Whether you like it or not, the DOJ did investigate, go through the Grand Jury and indicted in three different States (#4 in Georgia is coming). So all your speculation is just that speculation as he has been charged multiple times.

Don't tell me, it is a huge conspiracy all against Donald. All these prosecutors, all the Grand Juries, all the judges, and the whole DOJ is in on the conspiracy and got together at a big meeting to plan this across four states. At some point you have to look in the mirror and say that this may be a Donald issue, not a corruption issue.

---

Go ahead, put him in prison and see what happens.

I dare the neoliberal establishment to do so.

You want to break this country in half for real?

---

Only if the Progressive Lefties promise to take California, New York, Oregon, the state of Washington, Minnesota, and Illinois.

Otherwise, no deal.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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Mothra said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Name the specific law he broke.

---

This is what he's charged with. I'll let you and jury decide if he did these things.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/01/trump-charges-2020-election-probe/

---

Banana Republics trump up charges against political opponents.

Maybe a better question - name the last person indicted under any of these statues.

I actual think this could backfire. Imagine the discovery when Trump can get emails and information from election officials in Philadelphia, Phoenix, Atlanta, and other major cities in swing states that had continued shenanigans.

Imagine all the discovery around Democratic election officials around ballot harvesting, mail-in ballot schemes, etc.

This could really get interesting. It would be classic if this leads to the revelation of actual voter fraud.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

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Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

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I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Name the specific law he broke.

---

This is what he's charged with. I'll let you and jury decide if he did these things.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/01/trump-charges-2020-election-probe/

---

Banana Republics trump up charges against political opponents.

Maybe a better question - name the last person indicted under any of these statues.

I actual think this could backfire. Imagine the discovery when Trump can get emails and information from election officials in Philadelphia, Phoenix, Atlanta, and other major cities in swing states that had continued shenanigans.

Imagine all the discovery around Democratic election officials around ballot harvesting, mail-in ballot schemes, etc.

This could really get interesting. It would be classic if this leads to the revelation of actual voter fraud.

---

I'm in the audience watching you guys act like this woman. We saw January 6th.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Geez, give it a rest. Most people understand that we all most comply to laws to be a successful nation. Tribal, independence will get us nowhere.

This idea that the Colonist were united to fight big Government is ridiculous. Only 30% of the Colonists wanted to fight England. 20% were outright loyalist, the majority just wanted to live their lives. Even the 30% tried to work out it out with the British for 11 years, wanting to follow the laws if they could.

This notion that indicting Trump for 2020 is preposterous, is BS. He tried to install his own electors, at the very least it should be tried.

---

So did Clinton in 2016. Should she be tried?

This breaks into basically three camps:

1. Trump is the most luxurious president we've ever had. He's never done anything wrong.

2. Trump did some stupid ****, but it was not criminal, and previous politicians have done the same and unprosecuted. We don't throw out the Bill of Rights and become a banana republic because of our Trumpgasm.

3. Trumpgasms showing each other their T Face.

---

In my opinion, yes. Clinton should be tried. Why Trump didn't, I have no idea.

But, the fact she wasn't doesn't give Donald a pass for his actions after the 2020 election. He did everything he is accused! If you notice, the arguments against are not whether he did it but whether he should be charged or if they are really a crime. He tried to coerce votes, submit alternate electors, he pressured Pence, he put out false statements as an elected official, brought law suits he knew were wrong, instigated a crowd to storm Congress, and he did take the docs. Bottomline is he tried to prevent the transfer of power. There is no doubt he was outwardly against the transfer of power and took actions to get around it. So, sorry yes at the very least it should be tried.

---

But, the fact she wasn't doesn't give Donald a pass for his actions after the 2020 election.
Yes it does. Only banana republics have different systems of justice based on political party.

He did everything he is accused!
Provide evidence for crimes of intent.

If you notice, the arguments against are not whether he did it but whether he should be charged or if they are really a crime.
Correct. It is called the First Amendment.

He tried to coerce votes, submit alternate electors, he pressured Pence, he put out false statements as an elected official, brought law suits he knew were wrong,
None of that is illegal. If we outlaw species lawsuits then virtually every regressive ambulance chaser is out of business and in jail.

instigated a crowd to storm Congress, and he did take the docs.
None of that is in the indictment. So did Biden. So did VP Brown. So did Clinton. Charge all or charge none. We are not a banana republic.

Bottomline is he tried to prevent the transfer of power. There is no doubt he was outwardly against the transfer of power and took actions to get around it. So, sorry yes at the very least it should be tried.
For what crime? Bloviation is protected by the First Amendment.

At the end of the day is your Trumpgasm worth overturning the Constitution. One of the thing that makes America America is people get to say stupid things - otherwise we would imprison every person that claimed kids should wear masks and not be allowed to go to school due to a disease that killed fewer of them than the flu.

Ironically, Klanocrat regressive prosecutors continue to make up specious legal theories to derail Trump while charging him with filing specious lawsuits. Irony never lost on regressive Klanocrats.

---

If you really want to dig in. If the Trump DOJ could have prosecuted Hillary they would have. The FACT that they never were able to bring charges shows that they couldn't. Where is the investigation, Grand Jury and indictment of Hillary? Trump had 4 years to do it. So cut the Banana Republic crap. Only in Banana Republics do they prosecute on TV reports. So, apparently Hillary was smarter and covered her trail better than Trump because Trump is indicted and no one has had enough to indict Hillary or Bill. Luckily for Donald, we are not a Banana Republic and he will be able to defend himself.

Actually, they are crimes! There are three indictments in place and trials set. Your point? What crime? Well, several different Grand Juries seem to think there are numerous crimes. Whether you like it or not, the DOJ did investigate, go through the Grand Jury and indicted in three different States (#4 in Georgia is coming). So all your speculation is just that speculation as he has been charged multiple times.

Don't tell me, it is a huge conspiracy all against Donald. All these prosecutors, all the Grand Juries, all the judges, and the whole DOJ is in on the conspiracy and got together at a big meeting to plan this across four states. At some point you have to look in the mirror and say that this may be a Donald issue, not a corruption issue.

---

Let me explain it to you. Only in banana republics does the authoritarian government prosecute political opponents on specious grounds. Trump did not prosecute Hillary because James Comey stated it clearly - yes, she clearly committed treason and exposed classified documents to foreign governments, but we just don't prosecute political opponents because of the potential for abuse. This is not complicated. Trump and his DOJ respected polity and protocol and thought he did not need to prosecute Hillary because he never has been an vindictive authoritarian that wanted to turn the U.S. into a banana republic.

Of course it is a coordinated conspiracy against Trump. Anyone with a triple-digit IQ can see that. You're not so stupid as to not realize the mental gymnastics and specious legal theory required for this indictment. And it comes from a guy with a history of targeting Republicans with specious legal theories - the punishment is the process. This is little more than a way to distract from Bidenomics and the Biden global corruption to both keep the Democrat media focused on Trump to win the GOP nomination and (they hope) lose the general election.

Did you forget the DOJ laundered Russian disinformation from the Clinton Campaign to create the Russia Hoax?
Did you forget the DOJ targeted school board parents that opposed pedophilia in schools?
Did you forget the DOJ targeted churches that wanted to worship?
Did you forget the DOJ that told us Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation?
Did you forget the DOJ that raided a journalists home to retrieve Ashley Biden's diary as a political favor to Joe?
Did you forget the DOJ that tried to hoodwink the justice system with a sweetheart deal for Hunter Biden?

The difference is I am discussing actual facts and reality and you're having a Trumpgasm.

Again, it is possible to both oppose Trump's boorish behavior but obviously recognize it was not illegal. There is a reason these specious indictments cite laws in ways that has never been done. That's the exact definition of a banana republic.

My position is not one of love for Trump but of love for democracy and not becoming a banana republic.

---

We are over a year from the election. Using your logic Trump will be a perpetual Candidate, it gets him out of any accountability for his actions.

You are not discussing facts, you are discussing the world as you want it to be. Sort of a MAGA-Pollyanna. Everything I said is fact. Actually, I am only reacting to the facts. There are three, soon to be four, indictments that list actual charges approved by a Grand Jury. He has every right to a defense and will be able to meet his accuser in Court. He will be tried by Juries of his peers that his attorneys will get to challenge.

You are throwing out conspiracy theory, talk-radio talking points pushing some left-wing conspiracy that extended throughout the entire legal system in multiple states and the Federal Courts.

A rigged legal system in four states and the Federal Govt? Or, he committed crimes that are provable? Gee, which one seems more likely...

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Maybe, but then again, maybe not. 18 USC Sec. 371, 18 USC Sec. 1512 and 18 USC Sec. 241 - the statutes which Smith has used to charge Trump, have never been used in this manner for facts such as these. There isn't precedent for charging Trump based on the conduct alleged under these statutes.

And that's my point. We can say what he did is crappy, but whether it's actually illegal is a very different inquiry with a very different legal standard.

I agree with your last sentence. You won't hear me defending Trump's actions. But I do think this sets a potentially dangerous precedent, and seems a legal stretch to many legal observers.

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Maybe, but then again, maybe not. 18 USC Sec. 371, 18 USC Sec. 1512 and 18 USC Sec. 241 - the statutes which Smith has used to charge Trump, have never been used in this manner for facts such as these. There isn't precedent for charging Trump based on the conduct alleged under these statutes.

And that's my point. We can say what he did is crappy, but whether it's actually illegal is a very different inquiry with a very different legal standard.

I agree with your last sentence. You won't hear me defending Trump's actions. But I do think this sets a potentially dangerous precedent, and seems a legal stretch to many legal observers.

---

I am little surprised at how people turned on Trump. He did not do anything extraordinary except hold a rally during certification of an election. The Democrats clutch at their pearls and the GOP melts.

The way the Democrats are abusing the legal system to try to get DJT's head on pike is sickening and proves his point that the government is after the people, but he is just in the way.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Geez, give it a rest. Most people understand that we all most comply to laws to be a successful nation. Tribal, independence will get us nowhere.

This idea that the Colonist were united to fight big Government is ridiculous. Only 30% of the Colonists wanted to fight England. 20% were outright loyalist, the majority just wanted to live their lives. Even the 30% tried to work out it out with the British for 11 years, wanting to follow the laws if they could.

This notion that indicting Trump for 2020 is preposterous, is BS. He tried to install his own electors, at the very least it should be tried.

---

So did Clinton in 2016. Should she be tried?

This breaks into basically three camps:

1. Trump is the most luxurious president we've ever had. He's never done anything wrong.

2. Trump did some stupid ****, but it was not criminal, and previous politicians have done the same and unprosecuted. We don't throw out the Bill of Rights and become a banana republic because of our Trumpgasm.

3. Trumpgasms showing each other their T Face.

---

In my opinion, yes. Clinton should be tried. Why Trump didn't, I have no idea.

But, the fact she wasn't doesn't give Donald a pass for his actions after the 2020 election. He did everything he is accused! If you notice, the arguments against are not whether he did it but whether he should be charged or if they are really a crime. He tried to coerce votes, submit alternate electors, he pressured Pence, he put out false statements as an elected official, brought law suits he knew were wrong, instigated a crowd to storm Congress, and he did take the docs. Bottomline is he tried to prevent the transfer of power. There is no doubt he was outwardly against the transfer of power and took actions to get around it. So, sorry yes at the very least it should be tried.

---

But, the fact she wasn't doesn't give Donald a pass for his actions after the 2020 election.
Yes it does. Only banana republics have different systems of justice based on political party.

He did everything he is accused!
Provide evidence for crimes of intent.

If you notice, the arguments against are not whether he did it but whether he should be charged or if they are really a crime.
Correct. It is called the First Amendment.

He tried to coerce votes, submit alternate electors, he pressured Pence, he put out false statements as an elected official, brought law suits he knew were wrong,
None of that is illegal. If we outlaw species lawsuits then virtually every regressive ambulance chaser is out of business and in jail.

instigated a crowd to storm Congress, and he did take the docs.
None of that is in the indictment. So did Biden. So did VP Brown. So did Clinton. Charge all or charge none. We are not a banana republic.

Bottomline is he tried to prevent the transfer of power. There is no doubt he was outwardly against the transfer of power and took actions to get around it. So, sorry yes at the very least it should be tried.
For what crime? Bloviation is protected by the First Amendment.

At the end of the day is your Trumpgasm worth overturning the Constitution. One of the thing that makes America America is people get to say stupid things - otherwise we would imprison every person that claimed kids should wear masks and not be allowed to go to school due to a disease that killed fewer of them than the flu.

Ironically, Klanocrat regressive prosecutors continue to make up specious legal theories to derail Trump while charging him with filing specious lawsuits. Irony never lost on regressive Klanocrats.

---

If you really want to dig in. If the Trump DOJ could have prosecuted Hillary they would have. The FACT that they never were able to bring charges shows that they couldn't. Where is the investigation, Grand Jury and indictment of Hillary? Trump had 4 years to do it. So cut the Banana Republic crap. Only in Banana Republics do they prosecute on TV reports. So, apparently Hillary was smarter and covered her trail better than Trump because Trump is indicted and no one has had enough to indict Hillary or Bill. Luckily for Donald, we are not a Banana Republic and he will be able to defend himself.

Actually, they are crimes! There are three indictments in place and trials set. Your point? What crime? Well, several different Grand Juries seem to think there are numerous crimes. Whether you like it or not, the DOJ did investigate, go through the Grand Jury and indicted in three different States (#4 in Georgia is coming). So all your speculation is just that speculation as he has been charged multiple times.

Don't tell me, it is a huge conspiracy all against Donald. All these prosecutors, all the Grand Juries, all the judges, and the whole DOJ is in on the conspiracy and got together at a big meeting to plan this across four states. At some point you have to look in the mirror and say that this may be a Donald issue, not a corruption issue.

---

Go ahead, put him in prison and see what happens.

I dare the neoliberal establishment to do so.

You want to break this country in half for real?

---

Only if the Progressive Lefties promise to take California, New York, Oregon, the state of Washington, Minnesota, and Illinois.

Otherwise, no deal.

---

And Austin

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Maybe, but then again, maybe not. 18 USC Sec. 371, 18 USC Sec. 1512 and 18 USC Sec. 241 - the statutes which Smith has used to charge Trump, have never been used in this manner for facts such as these. There isn't precedent for charging Trump based on the conduct alleged under these statutes.

And that's my point. We can say what he did is crappy, but whether it's actually illegal is a very different inquiry with a very different legal standard.

I agree with your last sentence. You won't hear me defending Trump's actions. But I do think this sets a potentially dangerous precedent, and seems a legal stretch to many legal observers.

---

I am little surprised at how people turned on Trump. He did not do anything extraordinary except hold a rally during certification of an election. The Democrats clutch at their pearls and the GOP melts.

The way the Democrats are abusing the legal system to try to get DJT's head on pike is sickening and proves his point that the government is after the people, but he is just in the way.

---

Wow, way to downplay the event. People stormed the Capitol Building, broke windows, people got hurt, police were knocked around, people trespassed into private offices, the Vice President was evacuated to a safe place. An attempt to get the V.P. to decertify the election. These actions were much more than a simple rally.

Guy Noir said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Maybe, but then again, maybe not. 18 USC Sec. 371, 18 USC Sec. 1512 and 18 USC Sec. 241 - the statutes which Smith has used to charge Trump, have never been used in this manner for facts such as these. There isn't precedent for charging Trump based on the conduct alleged under these statutes.

And that's my point. We can say what he did is crappy, but whether it's actually illegal is a very different inquiry with a very different legal standard.

I agree with your last sentence. You won't hear me defending Trump's actions. But I do think this sets a potentially dangerous precedent, and seems a legal stretch to many legal observers.

---

I am little surprised at how people turned on Trump. He did not do anything extraordinary except hold a rally during certification of an election. The Democrats clutch at their pearls and the GOP melts.

The way the Democrats are abusing the legal system to try to get DJT's head on pike is sickening and proves his point that the government is after the people, but he is just in the way.

---

Wow, way to downplay the event. People stormed the Capitol Building, broke windows, people got hurt, police were knocked around, people trespassed into private offices, the Vice President was evacuated to a safe place. An attempt to get the V.P. to decertify the election. These actions were much more than a simple rally.

---

Little rally, where's the harm??

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Name the specific law he broke.

---

This is what he's charged with. I'll let you and jury decide if he did these things.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/01/trump-charges-2020-election-probe/

---

Banana Republics trump up charges against political opponents.

Maybe a better question - name the last person indicted under any of these statues.

I actual think this could backfire. Imagine the discovery when Trump can get emails and information from election officials in Philadelphia, Phoenix, Atlanta, and other major cities in swing states that had continued shenanigans.

Imagine all the discovery around Democratic election officials around ballot harvesting, mail-in ballot schemes, etc.

This could really get interesting. It would be classic if this leads to the revelation of actual voter fraud.

---

I'm in the audience watching you guys act like this woman. We saw January 6th.

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Good. Then you know it was not an insurrection or a THREAT TO DEMOCRACY.

FLBear5630 said:

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Guy Noir said:

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Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

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Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Maybe, but then again, maybe not. 18 USC Sec. 371, 18 USC Sec. 1512 and 18 USC Sec. 241 - the statutes which Smith has used to charge Trump, have never been used in this manner for facts such as these. There isn't precedent for charging Trump based on the conduct alleged under these statutes.

And that's my point. We can say what he did is crappy, but whether it's actually illegal is a very different inquiry with a very different legal standard.

I agree with your last sentence. You won't hear me defending Trump's actions. But I do think this sets a potentially dangerous precedent, and seems a legal stretch to many legal observers.

---

I am little surprised at how people turned on Trump. He did not do anything extraordinary except hold a rally during certification of an election. The Democrats clutch at their pearls and the GOP melts.

The way the Democrats are abusing the legal system to try to get DJT's head on pike is sickening and proves his point that the government is after the people, but he is just in the way.

---

Wow, way to downplay the event. People stormed the Capitol Building, broke windows, people got hurt, police were knocked around, people trespassed into private offices, the Vice President was evacuated to a safe place. An attempt to get the V.P. to decertify the election. These actions were much more than a simple rally.

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Little rally, where's the harm??

---

There was no harm until they shot dead Ashli Babbitt for the crime of standing on a door frame.


We have seen these kind of protests all over the world.

In Brazil, Sri Lanka, Chile

You suspend business for the day. Go home. Then come back the next after the protestors have been pushed back out from the premises and resume regular political work (stealing money from the tax payers and planning foreign wars)

You don't kill unarmed protestors and then spend the next 3 years trying to crush civil liberties and suppressing free speech in the name of "saving democracy".

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.

---

So you don't believe in the jury system? If he didn't do it, he won't be found guilty.

His problem won't be DC. It'll be Republican eye witnesses.

I think you'll be calling them "RINOs" instead of patriots.

---

You're insane if you believe our judicial system is sound and fair.

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There are millions of such slow functioning people.

KaiBear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.

---

So you don't believe in the jury system? If he didn't do it, he won't be found guilty.

His problem won't be DC. It'll be Republican eye witnesses.

I think you'll be calling them "RINOs" instead of patriots.

---

You're insane if you believe our judicial system is sound and fair.

---

There are millions of such slow functioning people.

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At least 81 million, in fact.

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.

---

So you don't believe in the jury system? If he didn't do it, he won't be found guilty.

His problem won't be DC. It'll be Republican eye witnesses.

I think you'll be calling them "RINOs" instead of patriots.

---

You're insane if you believe our judicial system is sound and fair.

---

There are millions of such slow functioning people.

---

At least 81 million, in fact.

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So we are told......

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

Maybe, but then again, maybe not. 18 USC Sec. 371, 18 USC Sec. 1512 and 18 USC Sec. 241 - the statutes which Smith has used to charge Trump, have never been used in this manner for facts such as these. There isn't precedent for charging Trump based on the conduct alleged under these statutes.

And that's my point. We can say what he did is crappy, but whether it's actually illegal is a very different inquiry with a very different legal standard.

I agree with your last sentence. You won't hear me defending Trump's actions. But I do think this sets a potentially dangerous precedent, and seems a legal stretch to many legal observers.

---

I am little surprised at how people turned on Trump. He did not do anything extraordinary except hold a rally during certification of an election. The Democrats clutch at their pearls and the GOP melts.

The way the Democrats are abusing the legal system to try to get DJT's head on pike is sickening and proves his point that the government is after the people, but he is just in the way.

---

Wow, way to downplay the event. People stormed the Capitol Building, broke windows, people got hurt, police were knocked around, people trespassed into private offices, the Vice President was evacuated to a safe place. An attempt to get the V.P. to decertify the election. These actions were much more than a simple rally.

---

Little rally, where's the harm??

---

There was no harm until they shot dead Ashli Babbitt for the crime of standing on a door frame.


We have seen these kind of protests all over the world.

In Brazil, Sri Lanka, Chile

You suspend business for the day. Go home. Then come back the next after the protestors have been pushed back out from the premises and resume regular political work (stealing money from the tax payers and planning foreign wars)

You don't kill unarmed protestors and then spend the next 3 years trying to crush civil liberties and suppressing free speech in the name of "saving democracy".

---

Do you really want to compare pictures? Take a look at them. They were breaking down the Chamber doors and chased Congress out of the building. But it a South American Government is your standard, not much I can say. Make sure you are wearing your Che t-shirt.

Of course Obama's mentor actually bombed the Capitol.

Can anyone share how long they served in prison for bombing the Capitol and The Pentagon?

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Of course Obama's mentor actually bombed the Capitol.

---

Prosecute the hell out of them! They are more wrong, if that is a thing, than the Jan 6th idiots. No argument, lock em up and throw away the key. Left doing it doesn't give the right a pass.

FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Of course Obama's mentor actually bombed the Capitol.

---

Left doing it doesn't give the right a pass.

---

You have to be sub 100 IQ to not realize the left gets a pass and the right is targeted.

Left leaning people do not believe in human nature, so they blame people's choices on societal factors, and since straight white conservative men are apparently the biggest influence on every society, only they can be held accountable for their actions, which subsumes everyone else's agency into theirs.

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Of course Obama's mentor actually bombed the Capitol.

---

Left doing it doesn't give the right a pass.

---

You have to be sub 100 IQ to not realize the left gets a pass and the right is targeted.

---

The only reason Hunter's sweetheart plea deal was no surprise, was because everyone knew long ago the DOJ would never go after a Lefty.

Non-violent protesters from Jan 6 have already seen more jail time than most of the violent rioters from that bloody summer of 2020.

Anyone pretending there is real Justice at work is getting checks form the DNC.

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Of course Obama's mentor actually bombed the Capitol.

---

Left doing it doesn't give the right a pass.

---

You have to be sub 100 IQ to not realize the left gets a pass and the right is targeted.

Left leaning people do not believe in human nature, so they blame people's choices on societal factors, and since straight white conservative men are apparently the biggest influence on every society, only they can be held accountable for their actions, which subsumes everyone else's agency into theirs.

---

Geez, when the Right had the chance they couldn't deliver on Clinton, Biden, Hunter or any of the other conspiracies. If the evidence is there why couldn't the GOP deliver?

There must be enough there on Trump to at least get an indictment.

Don't tell me, Everyone is in cahoots, right? Geez, who has the sub-100 IQ?

Haven't visited this part of Sicem365 for a while and given the Insurrection Apologists and usual political knuckle dragger posters, I'm glad I haven't. After all is said and done, Trump will be found guilty of these crimes and there's more coming...Georgia...Arizona is beginning their investigation of the fake electors conspiracy, and we'll see what happens in Michigan with those fake electors being charged. They didn't do this on their own and who knows what will be uncovered during the Discovery Phase.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Of course Obama's mentor actually bombed the Capitol.

---

Left doing it doesn't give the right a pass.

---

You have to be sub 100 IQ to not realize the left gets a pass and the right is targeted.

Left leaning people do not believe in human nature, so they blame people's choices on societal factors, and since straight white conservative men are apparently the biggest influence on every society, only they can be held accountable for their actions, which subsumes everyone else's agency into theirs.

---

Geez, when the Right had the chance they couldn't deliver on Clinton, Biden, Hunter or any of the other conspiracies. If the evidence is there why couldn't the GOP deliver?

There must be enough there on Trump to at least get an indictment.

Don't tell me, Everyone is in cahoots, right? Geez, who has the sub-100 IQ?

---

Comey admitted to Clinton breaking the law. They didn't pursue justice because they're weak and by their own words it was a precedent they didn't want to establish.

Again, throw Trump and prison and open up that can of worms. I dare them to do so.

Bearprof said:

---

Haven't visited this part of Sicem365 for a while and given the Insurrection Apologists and usual political knuckle dragger posters, I'm glad I haven't. After all is said and done, Trump will be found guilty of these crimes and there's more coming...Georgia...Arizona is beginning their investigation of the fake electors conspiracy, and we'll see what happens in Michigan with those fake electors being charged. They didn't do this on their own and who knows what will be uncovered during the Discovery Phase.

---

You mouth breathers simply don't have the credibility to levy charges against political opponents.

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Of course Obama's mentor actually bombed the Capitol.

---

Left doing it doesn't give the right a pass.

---

You have to be sub 100 IQ to not realize the left gets a pass and the right is targeted.

Left leaning people do not believe in human nature, so they blame people's choices on societal factors, and since straight white conservative men are apparently the biggest influence on every society, only they can be held accountable for their actions, which subsumes everyone else's agency into theirs.

---

Geez, when the Right had the chance they couldn't deliver on Clinton, Biden, Hunter or any of the other conspiracies. If the evidence is there why couldn't the GOP deliver?

There must be enough there on Trump to at least get an indictment.

Don't tell me, Everyone is in cahoots, right? Geez, who has the sub-100 IQ?

---

Comey admitted to Clinton breaking the law. They didn't pursue justice because they're weak and by their own words it was a precedent they didn't want to establish.

Again, throw Trump and prison and open up that can of worms. I dare them to do so.

---

But for knuckle draggers when the fact is literally in front of you ignore the facts or redefine them.

The knuckle draggers are having Trumpgasms all over regressive "media."

Bearprof said:

---

Haven't visited this part of Sicem365 for a while and given the Insurrection Apologists and usual political knuckle dragger posters, I'm glad I haven't. After all is said and done, Trump will be found guilty of these crimes and there's more coming...Georgia...Arizona is beginning their investigation of the fake electors conspiracy, and we'll see what happens in Michigan with those fake electors being charged. They didn't do this on their own and who knows what will be uncovered during the Discovery Phase.

---

Please come around more often

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.

We saw it.

I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.

---

He may have, but the question then becomes what law did he violate?

If being a crappy human being and trying to subvert an election were crimes, we would have lots of politicians in jail. I think Trump is a piece, but this seems to me a dangerous stretch.

---

Being crappy isn't illegal. Nor is lying to us illegal. Filing appeals isn't illegal.

Trying to get millions of votes thrown out is. The fake electors is. Putting a target on the backs of poll workers in a Georgia should be illegal. Look at what Republicans are saying. They were in the room and they are singing.

Bug Light on me if I'm wrong.

An aside. I do find the move from "stolen election" to "lying is protected free speech" to be astonishing. Am I now reading, they knew they were lying?

---

trying to get millions of ineligible votes thrown out is not illegal..

States that didnt follow election rules passed by their legislature had millions of ineligible ballots. Anybody with a brain knows this, nobody is willing to fix it.

I am all for progressive Dems continuing to go after him, they are losing ground daily in the polls and that works for me.

This is a chance for the center 80% to reclaim the govt from the outliers.

Bearprof said:

---

Haven't visited this part of Sicem365 for a while and given the Insurrection Apologists and usual political knuckle dragger posters, I'm glad I haven't. After all is said and done, Trump will be found guilty of these crimes and there's more coming...Georgia...Arizona is beginning their investigation of the fake electors conspiracy, and we'll see what happens in Michigan with those fake electors being charged. They didn't do this on their own and who knows what will be uncovered during the Discovery Phase.

---

Why have you not visited this forum in a while?

Why are you a Prof. but you also seem afraid of encountering ideas and opinions you don't like….

You are welcome to shill for the DC regime and we are welcome to criticize the overreach of trying to take out a former President over a protest at the Capitol.

This guy and many more are allowed to vote.

If this isn’t a testament to the legitimacy of liberal democracy, i dunno what to tell you man https://t.co/pnDXR9n4My

— Barbaric Disciple (@barbaricvitalsm) August 4, 2023

Bearprof said:

---

Haven't visited this part of Sicem365 for a while and given the Insurrection Apologists and usual political knuckle dragger posters, I'm glad I haven't. After all is said and done, Trump will be found guilty of these crimes and there's more coming...Georgia...Arizona is beginning their investigation of the fake electors conspiracy, and we'll see what happens in Michigan with those fake electors being charged. They didn't do this on their own and who knows what will be uncovered during the Discovery Phase.

---

You are one of a handful of reasons I haven't given Baylor any money since 2016. And probably will never again.

Not sure if anyone has seen Trump's current defense attorney, Alina Habba, but my God she is hot!! I hope Trump can stay strong and doesn't try to "grab her by the ***sy"!

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Not sure if anyone has seen Trump's current defense attorney, Alina Habba, but my God she is hot!! I hope Trump can stay strong and doesn't try to "grab her by the ***sy"!

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Ok. But how does she stack up against Nancy Pelosi?

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Not sure if anyone has seen Trump's current defense attorney, Alina Habba, but my God she is hot!! I hope Trump can stay strong and doesn't try to "grab her by the ***sy"!

---

She doesn't have the best professional reputation according to several articles. Sounds like typical Trump, will listen to the hottie that doesn't know what she is doing. Maybe that is how he ended up indicted...

Bearprof said:

---

Haven't visited this part of Sicem365 for a while and given the Insurrection Apologists and usual political knuckle dragger posters, I'm glad I haven't. After all is said and done, Trump will be found guilty of these crimes and there's more coming...Georgia...Arizona is beginning their investigation of the fake electors conspiracy, and we'll see what happens in Michigan with those fake electors being charged. They didn't do this on their own and who knows what will be uncovered during the Discovery Phase.

---

Good assessment!

In 1923, a malignant narcissist attempted to seize governmental power in a failed coup, was imprisoned with a sentence of five years. In prison he wrote his autobiography. After his early release in 1924, backed by conservative leaders, we know the rest of the story. In 2020, a malignant narcissist attempted to seize governmental power in a failed coup, …. to be determined.

FLBear5630 said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Not sure if anyone has seen Trump's current defense attorney, Alina Habba, but my God she is hot!! I hope Trump can stay strong and doesn't try to "grab her by the ***sy"!

---

She doesn't have the best professional reputation according to several articles. Sounds like typical Trump, will listen to the hottie that doesn't know what she is doing. Maybe that is how he ended up indicted...

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Given what is known about the man bringing these charges, that is laughably ironic.