Can We Have a Serious, Objective Discussion About Kamala Harris?

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GrowlTowel
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J.R. said:

Oldbear83 said:

J.R. said:

Fre3dombear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

At the end of the day, she's an inarticulate idiot who flunked the bar and only got her for being a nookie girl and half-black. She's the only president that make Joe Biden not the stupidest president in American history.


Is she half black or half Indian? We know she's very recently descended from sla/ve owners.
she is half Indian and half Jamaican. Is that ok with you or do need just a white dude
The point is, Ms. Harris made a lot of noise about her Indian heritage at first, now she boasts about being 'black'.

So, which is it?
she is black. Last I check, most Jamaicans are black. She is also Indian. You got an issue with that, because, she isn't white and evangelical and married to a Jew


Actually, yes, I do have a problem with a **** bag falling up to a position she didn't earn.
LIB,MR BEARS
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The announcement
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/03/24/remarks-by-president-biden-and-vice-president-harris-in-a-meeting-on-immigration/
whitetrash
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Adriacus Peratuun said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

At the end of the day, she's an inarticulate idiot who flunked the bar and only got her for being a nookie girl and half-black. She's the only president that make Joe Biden not the stupidest president in American history.


Quote:

Both facts are true

It's true that Harris failed the bar exam on her first attempt, per The New York Times. She later passed.
The bar exam is the qualifying examination for lawyers to receive a license to practice law in a given state.
California has a notoriously difficult bar exam. In 1985, the Los Angeles Times wrote that its pass rate "has generally hovered around 50%."

The other fact was Amy Barrett graduted 1st in her Law Class.
And the key data for context:


FWIW:

Kamala graduated from Hastings (UC-San Francisco) law. When I was in law school 30+ years ago, Hastings was routinely considered top 25-35 in the country. It's now ranked #82. Used to be ranked up there with Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford. Now it's down tied with Tech.

A difference between Texas and California. Texas has only ABA accredited law schools, so if you manage to survive 3 years in a Texas law school, the Texas bar exam is more like a floor: it's designed to weed out the truly unqualified of the lot.

California allows non-accredited law schools (and as well as ones that are state-accredited but not ABA-accredited). So just about anyone could get into a law school somewhere in CA (as long as you pay the tuition), so CA treats the bar as a "shelf" (i.e., only the qualified ones can pass it). Still, a decent grad of one of the better law schools in state should be able to pass it.

Over the years, there are/were 2 Hastings Law grads practicing in Waco. One of whom is still here and a pretty good lawyer. The other one (a black attorney) was disbarred about 15 years ago and disappeared.
whitetrash
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Adriacus Peratuun
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whitetrash said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

At the end of the day, she's an inarticulate idiot who flunked the bar and only got her for being a nookie girl and half-black. She's the only president that make Joe Biden not the stupidest president in American history.


Quote:

Both facts are true

It's true that Harris failed the bar exam on her first attempt, per The New York Times. She later passed.
The bar exam is the qualifying examination for lawyers to receive a license to practice law in a given state.
California has a notoriously difficult bar exam. In 1985, the Los Angeles Times wrote that its pass rate "has generally hovered around 50%."

The other fact was Amy Barrett graduted 1st in her Law Class.
And the key data for context:


FWIW:

Kamala graduated from Hastings (UC-San Francisco) law. When I was in law school 30+ years ago, Hastings was routinely considered top 25-35 in the country. It's now ranked #82. Used to be ranked up there with Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford. Now it's down tied with Tech.

A difference between Texas and California. Texas has only ABA accredited law schools, so if you manage to survive 3 years in a Texas law school, the Texas bar exam is more like a floor: it's designed to weed out the truly unqualified of the lot.

California allows non-accredited law schools (and as well as ones that are state-accredited but not ABA-accredited). So just about anyone could get into a law school somewhere in CA (as long as you pay the tuition), so CA treats the bar as a "shelf" (i.e., only the qualified ones can pass it). Still, a decent grad of one of the better law schools in state should be able to pass it.

Over the years, there are/were 2 Hastings Law grads practicing in Waco. One of whom is still here and a pretty good lawyer. The other one (a black attorney) was disbarred about 15 years ago and disappeared.


Getting lost in the weeds.

Harris failing the bar isn't a bar difficulty issue.
It is a poor understanding of basic legal topics issue.

Cal bar isn't some horrible hurdle for grads of real law schools.
Had two friends sit California & Nevada bar exams B2B over five days and pass both (multistate portion is taken once and applied to both exams).

Harris is intellectually challenged. Period. End of sentence.
Forest Bueller
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J.R. said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Jack Bauer said:


And we are also supposed to believe there isn't a democrat machine.

They are good, I'll give them that.
now who is Bobby? I'm not familiar with his fine work. Some gutter punk you pulled off twatter. No thanks.


Are you losing it or something. I didn't pull up anybody much less "bobby" simply responding to another post where I suppose he may have pulled it up.
Mitch Blood Green
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New video of VP Harris zipping past Trump.

4th and Inches
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Mitch Blood Green said:

New video of VP Harris zipping past Trump.


lol
&ct=g
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4th and Inches
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Adopt-a-Bear 2024

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GrowlTowel
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LIB,MR BEARS
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Mitch Blood Green said:

New video of VP Harris zipping past Trump.


When one door closes, another door opens. Other than that, it's a nice car.
2024 model Harris
TWD 1974
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Midnight Rider said:

Let's try to have a serious, objective discussion without the tribalism and conspiracy theories that are so prevalent on this board.

From my viewpoint, as one who leans Democratic but has never, ever been a fan of Joe Biden, what Kamala Harris has accomplished in the last three days has been nothing short of amazing. I am talking about the money she has raised, about garnering the support of enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. and about now leading Trump in one of the most recent polls. All this in three days time. Like her or not, she is off to a great start.

As for her VP pick, it seems to be coming down to either Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro. Either would be a solid pick, but Shapiro, being Jewish, might be considered too much pro-Israel in the current political environment.

Can we have a serious, objective discussion?

Have to think Josh Shapiro is the top choice. Early polling shows Harris a couple points down in Pennsylvania. Dems don't keep the White House without Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly might be a fine choice, but no guarantee having him on the ticket delivers AZ.
Waco1947
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So much for objective. All I have seen is lies and vindictive comments. Of course, that's what you get from the right wing swarm. They can't wait for a liberal to post then they swarm with nonsense.

Vindictiveness is a noun that describes a strong desire to get back at someone who has wronged you. (or supposedly wronged you.
Adriacus Peratuun
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TWD 1974 said:

Midnight Rider said:

Let's try to have a serious, objective discussion without the tribalism and conspiracy theories that are so prevalent on this board.

From my viewpoint, as one who leans Democratic but has never, ever been a fan of Joe Biden, what Kamala Harris has accomplished in the last three days has been nothing short of amazing. I am talking about the money she has raised, about garnering the support of enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. and about now leading Trump in one of the most recent polls. All this in three days time. Like her or not, she is off to a great start.

As for her VP pick, it seems to be coming down to either Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro. Either would be a solid pick, but Shapiro, being Jewish, might be considered too much pro-Israel in the current political environment.

Can we have a serious, objective discussion?

Have to think Josh Shapiro is the top choice. Early polling shows Harris a couple points down in Pennsylvania. Dems don't keep the White House without Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly might be a fine choice, but no guarantee having him on the ticket delivers AZ.
Choosing Shapiro is a problematic scenario.

He definitely helps with Pennsylvania & with Jewish voters nationwide.
But he clearly hurts her chances with the big block of Muslim voters in Michigan that she needs to win that state.

If Harris loses either Pennsylvania or Michigan she has no shot at winning the election.
Adriacus Peratuun
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Waco1947 said:

So much for objective. All I have seen is lies and vindictive comments. Of course, that's what you get from the right wing swarm. They can't wait for a liberal to post then they swarm with nonsense.
Maybe put down that handful of rocks that you routinely hurl before demonizing folks for responding in kind.
KaiBear
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Waco1947 said:

So much for objective. All I have seen is lies and vindictive comments.


Your intentional hypocrisy is always good for a laugh.
TWD 1974
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Adriacus Peratuun said:

whitetrash said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

At the end of the day, she's an inarticulate idiot who flunked the bar and only got her for being a nookie girl and half-black. She's the only president that make Joe Biden not the stupidest president in American history.


Quote:

Both facts are true

It's true that Harris failed the bar exam on her first attempt, per The New York Times. She later passed.
The bar exam is the qualifying examination for lawyers to receive a license to practice law in a given state.
California has a notoriously difficult bar exam. In 1985, the Los Angeles Times wrote that its pass rate "has generally hovered around 50%."

The other fact was Amy Barrett graduted 1st in her Law Class.
And the key data for context:


FWIW:

Kamala graduated from Hastings (UC-San Francisco) law. When I was in law school 30+ years ago, Hastings was routinely considered top 25-35 in the country. It's now ranked #82. Used to be ranked up there with Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford. Now it's down tied with Tech.

A difference between Texas and California. Texas has only ABA accredited law schools, so if you manage to survive 3 years in a Texas law school, the Texas bar exam is more like a floor: it's designed to weed out the truly unqualified of the lot.

California allows non-accredited law schools (and as well as ones that are state-accredited but not ABA-accredited). So just about anyone could get into a law school somewhere in CA (as long as you pay the tuition), so CA treats the bar as a "shelf" (i.e., only the qualified ones can pass it). Still, a decent grad of one of the better law schools in state should be able to pass it.

Over the years, there are/were 2 Hastings Law grads practicing in Waco. One of whom is still here and a pretty good lawyer. The other one (a black attorney) was disbarred about 15 years ago and disappeared.


Getting lost in the weeds.

Harris failing the bar isn't a bar difficulty issue.
It is a poor understanding of basic legal topics issue.

Cal bar isn't some horrible hurdle for grads of real law schools.
Had two friends sit California & Nevada bar exams B2B over five days and pass both (multistate portion is taken once and applied to both exams).

Harris is intellectually challenged. Period. End of sentence.

Passing the bar -whether on the first or second try--is not an important factor in evaluating a candidate for President. The last Republican President to have passed the bar was Gerald Ford (who was never accused of being an intellectual giant). It's not even a clear evaluator of how someone will practice law, as I have known Lawyers who finished close or at the top of their class, passed the bar on the first try, and were walking, talking examples of legal incompetence thereafter.
Mothra
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Waco1947 said:

So much for objective. All I have seen is lies and vindictive comments. Of course, that's what you get from the right wing swarm. They can't wait for a liberal to post then they swarm with nonsense.

Vindictiveness is a noun that describes a strong desire to get back at someone who has wronged you. (or supposedly wronged you.
My God man. Your complete lack of self-awareness is astounding.

All you post is lies and vindictive comments. That's you in a nut shell.

There's a verse about taking the log out of your own eye that comes to mind...
STxBear81
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i know lots of lawyers who are very good that have had more than one try at the Bar. i actually respect their honesty
Mothra
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TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

whitetrash said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

At the end of the day, she's an inarticulate idiot who flunked the bar and only got her for being a nookie girl and half-black. She's the only president that make Joe Biden not the stupidest president in American history.


Quote:

Both facts are true

It's true that Harris failed the bar exam on her first attempt, per The New York Times. She later passed.
The bar exam is the qualifying examination for lawyers to receive a license to practice law in a given state.
California has a notoriously difficult bar exam. In 1985, the Los Angeles Times wrote that its pass rate "has generally hovered around 50%."

The other fact was Amy Barrett graduted 1st in her Law Class.
And the key data for context:


FWIW:

Kamala graduated from Hastings (UC-San Francisco) law. When I was in law school 30+ years ago, Hastings was routinely considered top 25-35 in the country. It's now ranked #82. Used to be ranked up there with Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford. Now it's down tied with Tech.

A difference between Texas and California. Texas has only ABA accredited law schools, so if you manage to survive 3 years in a Texas law school, the Texas bar exam is more like a floor: it's designed to weed out the truly unqualified of the lot.

California allows non-accredited law schools (and as well as ones that are state-accredited but not ABA-accredited). So just about anyone could get into a law school somewhere in CA (as long as you pay the tuition), so CA treats the bar as a "shelf" (i.e., only the qualified ones can pass it). Still, a decent grad of one of the better law schools in state should be able to pass it.

Over the years, there are/were 2 Hastings Law grads practicing in Waco. One of whom is still here and a pretty good lawyer. The other one (a black attorney) was disbarred about 15 years ago and disappeared.


Getting lost in the weeds.

Harris failing the bar isn't a bar difficulty issue.
It is a poor understanding of basic legal topics issue.

Cal bar isn't some horrible hurdle for grads of real law schools.
Had two friends sit California & Nevada bar exams B2B over five days and pass both (multistate portion is taken once and applied to both exams).

Harris is intellectually challenged. Period. End of sentence.

Passing the bar -whether on the first or second try--is not an important factor in evaluating a candidate for President. The last Republican President to have passed the bar was Gerald Ford (who was never accused of being an intellectual giant). It's not even a clear evaluator of how someone will practice law, as I have known Lawyers who finished close or at the top of their class, passed the bar on the first try, and were walking, talking examples of legal incompetence thereafter.
A few things...

1) Not being able to pass the bar does say something about a person's smarts, and the ability to analyze facts. Sure, plenty of presidents haven't been lawyers. But when you fail a test like that one - one that you most likely studied for intensely - it does say something about you. I'd prefer my presidents pass the bar the first time they tried.

2) Your experience has been different from mine. I've known a few people who didn't pass the bar the first time. None of them went on to be great lawyers.
TWD 1974
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Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Midnight Rider said:

Let's try to have a serious, objective discussion without the tribalism and conspiracy theories that are so prevalent on this board.

From my viewpoint, as one who leans Democratic but has never, ever been a fan of Joe Biden, what Kamala Harris has accomplished in the last three days has been nothing short of amazing. I am talking about the money she has raised, about garnering the support of enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. and about now leading Trump in one of the most recent polls. All this in three days time. Like her or not, she is off to a great start.

As for her VP pick, it seems to be coming down to either Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro. Either would be a solid pick, but Shapiro, being Jewish, might be considered too much pro-Israel in the current political environment.

Can we have a serious, objective discussion?

Have to think Josh Shapiro is the top choice. Early polling shows Harris a couple points down in Pennsylvania. Dems don't keep the White House without Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly might be a fine choice, but no guarantee having him on the ticket delivers AZ.
Choosing Shapiro is a problematic scenario.

He definitely helps with Pennsylvania & with Jewish voters nationwide.
But he clearly hurts her chances with the big block of Muslim voters in Michigan that she needs to win that state.

If Harris loses either Pennsylvania or Michigan she has no shot at winning the election.
There is a barely possible scenario to 270, winning Pennsylvania without Michigan. No real solution without PA. Harris appears to be making a strong move to the center. Her comments after meeting with Bebe yesterday reflect that. Michigan is a bit of a political enigma--I seem to remember that Obama was under water with the Muslim block for a time in the 2012 election. As Trump is not likely to make a move to embrace the Palestinian cause, however, I expect a lot of the block will come back to Harris. The election is going to be determined in PA, Michigan and Wisc.--expect huge money spent there. It also looks like it will be really close.
Mothra
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TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Midnight Rider said:

Let's try to have a serious, objective discussion without the tribalism and conspiracy theories that are so prevalent on this board.

From my viewpoint, as one who leans Democratic but has never, ever been a fan of Joe Biden, what Kamala Harris has accomplished in the last three days has been nothing short of amazing. I am talking about the money she has raised, about garnering the support of enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. and about now leading Trump in one of the most recent polls. All this in three days time. Like her or not, she is off to a great start.

As for her VP pick, it seems to be coming down to either Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro. Either would be a solid pick, but Shapiro, being Jewish, might be considered too much pro-Israel in the current political environment.

Can we have a serious, objective discussion?

Have to think Josh Shapiro is the top choice. Early polling shows Harris a couple points down in Pennsylvania. Dems don't keep the White House without Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly might be a fine choice, but no guarantee having him on the ticket delivers AZ.
Choosing Shapiro is a problematic scenario.

He definitely helps with Pennsylvania & with Jewish voters nationwide.
But he clearly hurts her chances with the big block of Muslim voters in Michigan that she needs to win that state.

If Harris loses either Pennsylvania or Michigan she has no shot at winning the election.
There is a barely possible scenario to 270, winning Pennsylvania without Michigan. No real solution without PA. Harris appears to be making a strong move to the center. Her comments after meeting with Bebe yesterday reflect that. Michigan is a bit of a political enigma--I seem to remember that Obama was under water with the Muslim block for a time in the 2012 election. As Trump is not likely to make a move to embrace the Palestinian cause, however, I expect a lot of the block will come back to Harris. The election is going to be determined in PA, Michigan and Wisc.--expect huge money spent there. It also looks like it will be really close.
Of course she is moving to the center. Every dem does that during the election cycle. Then she will move left as soon as she wins.

The problem is, centrist Dems and independents seem to fall for those shenanigans.
Adriacus Peratuun
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Mothra said:

TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

whitetrash said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

At the end of the day, she's an inarticulate idiot who flunked the bar and only got her for being a nookie girl and half-black. She's the only president that make Joe Biden not the stupidest president in American history.


Quote:

Both facts are true

It's true that Harris failed the bar exam on her first attempt, per The New York Times. She later passed.
The bar exam is the qualifying examination for lawyers to receive a license to practice law in a given state.
California has a notoriously difficult bar exam. In 1985, the Los Angeles Times wrote that its pass rate "has generally hovered around 50%."

The other fact was Amy Barrett graduted 1st in her Law Class.
And the key data for context:


FWIW:

Kamala graduated from Hastings (UC-San Francisco) law. When I was in law school 30+ years ago, Hastings was routinely considered top 25-35 in the country. It's now ranked #82. Used to be ranked up there with Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford. Now it's down tied with Tech.

A difference between Texas and California. Texas has only ABA accredited law schools, so if you manage to survive 3 years in a Texas law school, the Texas bar exam is more like a floor: it's designed to weed out the truly unqualified of the lot.

California allows non-accredited law schools (and as well as ones that are state-accredited but not ABA-accredited). So just about anyone could get into a law school somewhere in CA (as long as you pay the tuition), so CA treats the bar as a "shelf" (i.e., only the qualified ones can pass it). Still, a decent grad of one of the better law schools in state should be able to pass it.

Over the years, there are/were 2 Hastings Law grads practicing in Waco. One of whom is still here and a pretty good lawyer. The other one (a black attorney) was disbarred about 15 years ago and disappeared.


Getting lost in the weeds.

Harris failing the bar isn't a bar difficulty issue.
It is a poor understanding of basic legal topics issue.

Cal bar isn't some horrible hurdle for grads of real law schools.
Had two friends sit California & Nevada bar exams B2B over five days and pass both (multistate portion is taken once and applied to both exams).

Harris is intellectually challenged. Period. End of sentence.

Passing the bar -whether on the first or second try--is not an important factor in evaluating a candidate for President. The last Republican President to have passed the bar was Gerald Ford (who was never accused of being an intellectual giant). It's not even a clear evaluator of how someone will practice law, as I have known Lawyers who finished close or at the top of their class, passed the bar on the first try, and were walking, talking examples of legal incompetence thereafter.
A few things...

1) Not being able to pass the bar does say something about a person's smarts, and the ability to analyze facts. Sure, plenty of presidents haven't been lawyers. But when you fail a test like that one - one that you most likely studied for intensely - it does say something about you.

2) Your experience has been different from mine. I've known a few people who didn't pass the bar. None of them went on to be great lawyers.
Exactly.

Intelligence & Performance are HUGE factors in evaluating a Presidential candidate. To offer otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

Passing the bar might not directly correlate to quality professional performance but failing the bar does correlate to poor professional performance. There is a valid reason that most large/medium sized law firms pull offers/fire young attorneys for failing the bar.
Adriacus Peratuun
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TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Midnight Rider said:

Let's try to have a serious, objective discussion without the tribalism and conspiracy theories that are so prevalent on this board.

From my viewpoint, as one who leans Democratic but has never, ever been a fan of Joe Biden, what Kamala Harris has accomplished in the last three days has been nothing short of amazing. I am talking about the money she has raised, about garnering the support of enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. and about now leading Trump in one of the most recent polls. All this in three days time. Like her or not, she is off to a great start.

As for her VP pick, it seems to be coming down to either Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro. Either would be a solid pick, but Shapiro, being Jewish, might be considered too much pro-Israel in the current political environment.

Can we have a serious, objective discussion?

Have to think Josh Shapiro is the top choice. Early polling shows Harris a couple points down in Pennsylvania. Dems don't keep the White House without Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly might be a fine choice, but no guarantee having him on the ticket delivers AZ.
Choosing Shapiro is a problematic scenario.

He definitely helps with Pennsylvania & with Jewish voters nationwide.
But he clearly hurts her chances with the big block of Muslim voters in Michigan that she needs to win that state.

If Harris loses either Pennsylvania or Michigan she has no shot at winning the election.
There is a barely possible scenario to 270, winning Pennsylvania without Michigan. No real solution without PA. Harris appears to be making a strong move to the center. Her comments after meeting with Bebe yesterday reflect that. Michigan is a bit of a political enigma--I seem to remember that Obama was under water with the Muslim block for a time in the 2012 election. As Trump is not likely to make a move to embrace the Palestinian cause, however, I expect a lot of the block will come back to Harris. The election is going to be determined in PA, Michigan and Wisc.--expect huge money spent there. It also looks like it will be really close.
Muslim voters in Michigan switching their vote is simply disastrous for Ds.

But in a state where the polling is consistently showing a 1-2% gap and Muslims are 4.5% of registered voters and turnout at higher than average rates [average turnout for registered voters is around 70%] simply having a large portion stay home is enough to swing the outcome.

Turning out the vote is likely the key in Michigan and Wisconsin. The volume of undecideds is simply tiny.

And while there are numerous "scenarios", Ds aren't winning without taking both Michigan & Pennsylvania given polling data over last year.
TWD 1974
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Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Midnight Rider said:

Let's try to have a serious, objective discussion without the tribalism and conspiracy theories that are so prevalent on this board.

From my viewpoint, as one who leans Democratic but has never, ever been a fan of Joe Biden, what Kamala Harris has accomplished in the last three days has been nothing short of amazing. I am talking about the money she has raised, about garnering the support of enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. and about now leading Trump in one of the most recent polls. All this in three days time. Like her or not, she is off to a great start.

As for her VP pick, it seems to be coming down to either Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro. Either would be a solid pick, but Shapiro, being Jewish, might be considered too much pro-Israel in the current political environment.

Can we have a serious, objective discussion?

Have to think Josh Shapiro is the top choice. Early polling shows Harris a couple points down in Pennsylvania. Dems don't keep the White House without Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly might be a fine choice, but no guarantee having him on the ticket delivers AZ.
Choosing Shapiro is a problematic scenario.

He definitely helps with Pennsylvania & with Jewish voters nationwide.
But he clearly hurts her chances with the big block of Muslim voters in Michigan that she needs to win that state.

If Harris loses either Pennsylvania or Michigan she has no shot at winning the election.
There is a barely possible scenario to 270, winning Pennsylvania without Michigan. No real solution without PA. Harris appears to be making a strong move to the center. Her comments after meeting with Bebe yesterday reflect that. Michigan is a bit of a political enigma--I seem to remember that Obama was under water with the Muslim block for a time in the 2012 election. As Trump is not likely to make a move to embrace the Palestinian cause, however, I expect a lot of the block will come back to Harris. The election is going to be determined in PA, Michigan and Wisc.--expect huge money spent there. It also looks like it will be really close.
Muslim voters in Michigan switching their vote is simply disastrous for Ds.

But in a state where the polling is consistently showing a 1-2% gap and Muslims are 4.5% of registered voters and turnout at higher than average rates [average turnout for registered voters is around 70%] simply having a large portion stay home is enough to swing the outcome.

Turning out the vote is likely the key in Michigan and Wisconsin. The volume of undecideds is simply tiny.

And while there are numerous "scenarios", Ds aren't winning without taking both Michigan & Pennsylvania given polling data over last year.
Its an uphill fight for Dems whichever way you look. Polling in the former blue wall is only slightly better than NC, AZ, Nev.; There is a reason Trump is walking away from debating her, he likes the polling right now. Question is what it looks like after Labor day.
Adriacus Peratuun
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TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Midnight Rider said:

Let's try to have a serious, objective discussion without the tribalism and conspiracy theories that are so prevalent on this board.

From my viewpoint, as one who leans Democratic but has never, ever been a fan of Joe Biden, what Kamala Harris has accomplished in the last three days has been nothing short of amazing. I am talking about the money she has raised, about garnering the support of enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. and about now leading Trump in one of the most recent polls. All this in three days time. Like her or not, she is off to a great start.

As for her VP pick, it seems to be coming down to either Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro. Either would be a solid pick, but Shapiro, being Jewish, might be considered too much pro-Israel in the current political environment.

Can we have a serious, objective discussion?

Have to think Josh Shapiro is the top choice. Early polling shows Harris a couple points down in Pennsylvania. Dems don't keep the White House without Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly might be a fine choice, but no guarantee having him on the ticket delivers AZ.
Choosing Shapiro is a problematic scenario.

He definitely helps with Pennsylvania & with Jewish voters nationwide.
But he clearly hurts her chances with the big block of Muslim voters in Michigan that she needs to win that state.

If Harris loses either Pennsylvania or Michigan she has no shot at winning the election.
There is a barely possible scenario to 270, winning Pennsylvania without Michigan. No real solution without PA. Harris appears to be making a strong move to the center. Her comments after meeting with Bebe yesterday reflect that. Michigan is a bit of a political enigma--I seem to remember that Obama was under water with the Muslim block for a time in the 2012 election. As Trump is not likely to make a move to embrace the Palestinian cause, however, I expect a lot of the block will come back to Harris. The election is going to be determined in PA, Michigan and Wisc.--expect huge money spent there. It also looks like it will be really close.
Muslim voters in Michigan switching their vote is simply disastrous for Ds.

But in a state where the polling is consistently showing a 1-2% gap and Muslims are 4.5% of registered voters and turnout at higher than average rates [average turnout for registered voters is around 70%] simply having a large portion stay home is enough to swing the outcome.

Turning out the vote is likely the key in Michigan and Wisconsin. The volume of undecideds is simply tiny.

And while there are numerous "scenarios", Ds aren't winning without taking both Michigan & Pennsylvania given polling data over last year.
Its an uphill fight for Dems whichever way you look. Polling in the former blue wall is only slightly better than NC, AZ, Nev.; There is a reason Trump is walking away from debating her, he likes the polling right now. Question is what it looks like after Labor day.
She is in her polling honeymoon. History says it fades over next 2-3 weeks.

If the Ds have a fight at their convention, it is likely she never recovers. But even with a love fest, the next month is going to see a flood of social media content focusing on her bigger mistakes. Her negatives will climb substantially.

Ds are sacrificing to the election gods and praying for a Trump implosion [always possible].
Trump campaign staff's important job is to keep him from imploding.

Harris will implode. She doesn't need adversity to falter. Simple friendly questions often led to her biggest blunders.

And the border. And inflation. Neither is getting fixed any time soon.
whitetrash
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Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Midnight Rider said:

Let's try to have a serious, objective discussion without the tribalism and conspiracy theories that are so prevalent on this board.

From my viewpoint, as one who leans Democratic but has never, ever been a fan of Joe Biden, what Kamala Harris has accomplished in the last three days has been nothing short of amazing. I am talking about the money she has raised, about garnering the support of enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. and about now leading Trump in one of the most recent polls. All this in three days time. Like her or not, she is off to a great start.

As for her VP pick, it seems to be coming down to either Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro. Either would be a solid pick, but Shapiro, being Jewish, might be considered too much pro-Israel in the current political environment.

Can we have a serious, objective discussion?

Have to think Josh Shapiro is the top choice. Early polling shows Harris a couple points down in Pennsylvania. Dems don't keep the White House without Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly might be a fine choice, but no guarantee having him on the ticket delivers AZ.
Choosing Shapiro is a problematic scenario.

He definitely helps with Pennsylvania & with Jewish voters nationwide.
But he clearly hurts her chances with the big block of Muslim voters in Michigan that she needs to win that state.

If Harris loses either Pennsylvania or Michigan she has no shot at winning the election.
There is a barely possible scenario to 270, winning Pennsylvania without Michigan. No real solution without PA. Harris appears to be making a strong move to the center. Her comments after meeting with Bebe yesterday reflect that. Michigan is a bit of a political enigma--I seem to remember that Obama was under water with the Muslim block for a time in the 2012 election. As Trump is not likely to make a move to embrace the Palestinian cause, however, I expect a lot of the block will come back to Harris. The election is going to be determined in PA, Michigan and Wisc.--expect huge money spent there. It also looks like it will be really close.
Muslim voters in Michigan switching their vote is simply disastrous for Ds.

But in a state where the polling is consistently showing a 1-2% gap and Muslims are 4.5% of registered voters and turnout at higher than average rates [average turnout for registered voters is around 70%] simply having a large portion stay home is enough to swing the outcome.

Turning out the vote is likely the key in Michigan and Wisconsin. The volume of undecideds is simply tiny.

And while there are numerous "scenarios", Ds aren't winning without taking both Michigan & Pennsylvania given polling data over last year.
Its an uphill fight for Dems whichever way you look. Polling in the former blue wall is only slightly better than NC, AZ, Nev.; There is a reason Trump is walking away from debating her, he likes the polling right now. Question is what it looks like after Labor day.
She is in her polling honeymoon. History says it fades over next 2-3 weeks.

If the Ds have a fight at their convention, it is likely she never recovers. But even with a love fest, the next month is going to see a flood of social media content focusing on her bigger mistakes. Her negatives will climb substantially.

Ds are sacrificing to the election gods and praying for a Trump implosion [always possible].
Trump campaign staff's important job is to keep him from imploding.

Harris will implode. She doesn't need adversity to falter. Simple friendly questions often led to her biggest blunders.

And the border. And inflation. Neither is getting fixed any time soon.
But the media has already rewritten history with respect to her appointed role on the border. And be prepared for an onslaught of reports that since that basket of goods that you spent $175 for last year (notwithstanding the fact that only cost you $100 4-5 years ago) now cost you $180, that INFLATION IS UNDER CONTROL!!!!!
jbbear
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parch said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

parch said:

Doc Holliday said:

Lets look at her background:

- She sucked her way up the ladder of power.
- Put people in prison for no reason.
- She's not well spoken or personable.
- She was supposed to be a border czar and allowed 12+ million illegals to enter.
- She's a champion of identity politics.

She's more coherent than Joe and doesn't have Parkinson's. She will use her younger age against Trump...despite media circling wagons to say Joe's age wasn't an issue.

In polling aggregate she's lower than Joe, even at his worst. The "excitement" behind her is being astroturfed.

If elected, we'd get an onslaught of idpol agendas, no border control, continued economic struggles and I don't see her handling war issues well.
I thought this was supposed to be objective.

She's never been a "border czar."

"Put people in prison for no reason" is an interesting way to put it. As the ranking state attorney, she didn't put anyone anywhere. She made several bad calls on follow-up investigations, which she has been (and should be) held to account for, but to paint it as if she was some rogue attorney throwing innocent people behind bars willy nilly is not accurate and not even her role. There are four mistaken innocence cases I'm aware of that she fumbled.

The rest is subjective, including how she handles wars, border control and economic agenda. There is no way to know any of that based on fact. And the gross ladder of power comment does not deserve rebuttal or serious thought.

Harris, like all candidates, is imperfect and has political skeletons. I would say on balance in relation to past (and present) candidates, her skeletons are relatively minute, which is what has Trump's corner scrambling for talking points at the moment.
The gaslighting begins ... "fact check" would make Orwell blush.

https://easttexasradio.com/vice-president-coming-to-texas-friday-06-25/

VP Kamala Harris

Vice President Kamala Harris, named "border czar" three months ago, is making her first trip to the southwest border. El Paso State Senator Cesar Blanco is excited about the visit to his district today. It's unclear if the Vice President will meet with Governor Abbott, who issued a disaster declaration to combat the surge in illegal immigrants and drug trafficking."

You're quoting "East Texas Radio" as a source here? If you want to dispute PolitiFact's sourced, factual assessments, please do. I'll be waiting.

Harris was tasked with exploring and addressing factors that lead to mass northward migration in the first place at the root, one of the many useless errand-boy tasks VPs are set to to make it seem like they're busy. It was a diplomatic branch offered to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. She had no role in border enforcement, border policy, or any border issues at all. Biden kept those isolated within Homeland Security's remit, where they always are.

One of Biden's many mistakes, which Obama did not make when he issued VP Biden with a similar task, was outlining her actual KPIs in this. When Biden was given this task as VP, he secured a $700 million funding package intended to beef up Central American border security, law enforcement, prison reform and support. The outcome of that is a discussion point, but there was an outcome.

Harris was not given any similar task. She was just sent on a diplomatic mission to Central America in summer 2021, told migrants not to come to the US and left. She had no authority or tasking to do anything else. I think that's a failure of Biden's, but to somehow pin this inane "border czar" tag on Harris is disingenuous in the extreme and just a nonsense political football.
You're a liar just like the Dems and CNN and MSNBC.
STxBear81
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I'm no lawyer or accountant. But honestly, if you fail the Bar does that mean you can't be an upstanding lawyer and represent large clients or make a good living honestly? Or does failing imply you don't have what it takes in crunch time so a large firm won't give that guy a
Chance
Waco1947
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Adriacus Peratuun said:

Waco1947 said:

So much for objective. All I have seen is lies and vindictive comments. Of course, that's what you get from the right wing swarm. They can't wait for a liberal to post then they swarm with nonsense.
Maybe put down that handful of rocks that you routinely hurl before demonizing folks for responding in kind.
As always show me a "demonizing" quote. I don't attack personally but I do attack nonsensical lies.
I do not meet this standard "o demonize someone is to characterize them as evil or wicked, whether or not they actually are. It's distressingly common in politics for one party to demonize members of the opposing party."
Waco1947
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jbbear said:

parch said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

parch said:

Doc Holliday said:

Lets look at her background:

- She sucked her way up the ladder of power.
- Put people in prison for no reason.
- She's not well spoken or personable.
- She was supposed to be a border czar and allowed 12+ million illegals to enter.
- She's a champion of identity politics.

She's more coherent than Joe and doesn't have Parkinson's. She will use her younger age against Trump...despite media circling wagons to say Joe's age wasn't an issue.

In polling aggregate she's lower than Joe, even at his worst. The "excitement" behind her is being astroturfed.

If elected, we'd get an onslaught of idpol agendas, no border control, continued economic struggles and I don't see her handling war issues well.
I thought this was supposed to be objective.

She's never been a "border czar."

"Put people in prison for no reason" is an interesting way to put it. As the ranking state attorney, she didn't put anyone anywhere. She made several bad calls on follow-up investigations, which she has been (and should be) held to account for, but to paint it as if she was some rogue attorney throwing innocent people behind bars willy nilly is not accurate and not even her role. There are four mistaken innocence cases I'm aware of that she fumbled.

The rest is subjective, including how she handles wars, border control and economic agenda. There is no way to know any of that based on fact. And the gross ladder of power comment does not deserve rebuttal or serious thought.

Harris, like all candidates, is imperfect and has political skeletons. I would say on balance in relation to past (and present) candidates, her skeletons are relatively minute, which is what has Trump's corner scrambling for talking points at the moment.
The gaslighting begins ... "fact check" would make Orwell blush.

https://easttexasradio.com/vice-president-coming-to-texas-friday-06-25/

VP Kamala Harris

Vice President Kamala Harris, named "border czar" three months ago, is making her first trip to the southwest border. El Paso State Senator Cesar Blanco is excited about the visit to his district today. It's unclear if the Vice President will meet with Governor Abbott, who issued a disaster declaration to combat the surge in illegal immigrants and drug trafficking."

You're quoting "East Texas Radio" as a source here? If you want to dispute PolitiFact's sourced, factual assessments, please do. I'll be waiting.

Harris was tasked with exploring and addressing factors that lead to mass northward migration in the first place at the root, one of the many useless errand-boy tasks VPs are set to to make it seem like they're busy. It was a diplomatic branch offered to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. She had no role in border enforcement, border policy, or any border issues at all. Biden kept those isolated within Homeland Security's remit, where they always are.

One of Biden's many mistakes, which Obama did not make when he issued VP Biden with a similar task, was outlining her actual KPIs in this. When Biden was given this task as VP, he secured a $700 million funding package intended to beef up Central American border security, law enforcement, prison reform and support. The outcome of that is a discussion point, but there was an outcome.

Harris was not given any similar task. She was just sent on a diplomatic mission to Central America in summer 2021, told migrants not to come to the US and left. She had no authority or tasking to do anything else. I think that's a failure of Biden's, but to somehow pin this inane "border czar" tag on Harris is disingenuous in the extreme and just a nonsense political football.
You're a liar just like the Dems and CNN and MSNBC.
She was just sent on a diplomatic mission to Central America in summer 2021, told migrants not to come to the US and left. She had no authority or tasking to do anything else. I think that's a failure of Biden's, but to somehow pin this inane "border czar" tag on Harris is disingenuous in the extreme and just a nonsense political football. Which part of this statement is a lie?
LIB,MR BEARS
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Waco1947 said:

So much for objective. All I have seen is lies and vindictive comments. Of course, that's what you get from the right wing swarm. They can't wait for a liberal to post then they swarm with nonsense.

Vindictiveness is a noun that describes a strong desire to get back at someone who has wronged you. (or supposedly wronged you.

All the vindictiveness have been removed:

Border czar, failure

Set up a bail fund for rioters in 2020

CNN: Harris' voting record in the Senate is certainly one of the most liberal


What more do I need to know?
Adriacus Peratuun
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Waco1947 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

Waco1947 said:

So much for objective. All I have seen is lies and vindictive comments. Of course, that's what you get from the right wing swarm. They can't wait for a liberal to post then they swarm with nonsense.
Maybe put down that handful of rocks that you routinely hurl before demonizing folks for responding in kind.
As always show me a "demonizing" quote. I don't attack personally but I do attack nonsensical lies.
I do not meet this standard "o demonize someone is to characterize them as evil or wicked, whether or not they actually are. It's distressingly common in politics for one party to demonize members of the opposing party."
Do you realize that any member can go to your profile and scroll through your 306 pages of posts.
They are full of personal attacks and name calling.

No, I am not going to waste hours pouring through them for specific quotes. People can do that if they choose.
We know you by your words [to paraphrase the Bible].
4th and Inches
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Waco1947 said:

jbbear said:

parch said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

parch said:

Doc Holliday said:

Lets look at her background:

- She sucked her way up the ladder of power.
- Put people in prison for no reason.
- She's not well spoken or personable.
- She was supposed to be a border czar and allowed 12+ million illegals to enter.
- She's a champion of identity politics.

She's more coherent than Joe and doesn't have Parkinson's. She will use her younger age against Trump...despite media circling wagons to say Joe's age wasn't an issue.

In polling aggregate she's lower than Joe, even at his worst. The "excitement" behind her is being astroturfed.

If elected, we'd get an onslaught of idpol agendas, no border control, continued economic struggles and I don't see her handling war issues well.
I thought this was supposed to be objective.

She's never been a "border czar."

"Put people in prison for no reason" is an interesting way to put it. As the ranking state attorney, she didn't put anyone anywhere. She made several bad calls on follow-up investigations, which she has been (and should be) held to account for, but to paint it as if she was some rogue attorney throwing innocent people behind bars willy nilly is not accurate and not even her role. There are four mistaken innocence cases I'm aware of that she fumbled.

The rest is subjective, including how she handles wars, border control and economic agenda. There is no way to know any of that based on fact. And the gross ladder of power comment does not deserve rebuttal or serious thought.

Harris, like all candidates, is imperfect and has political skeletons. I would say on balance in relation to past (and present) candidates, her skeletons are relatively minute, which is what has Trump's corner scrambling for talking points at the moment.
The gaslighting begins ... "fact check" would make Orwell blush.

https://easttexasradio.com/vice-president-coming-to-texas-friday-06-25/

VP Kamala Harris

Vice President Kamala Harris, named "border czar" three months ago, is making her first trip to the southwest border. El Paso State Senator Cesar Blanco is excited about the visit to his district today. It's unclear if the Vice President will meet with Governor Abbott, who issued a disaster declaration to combat the surge in illegal immigrants and drug trafficking."

You're quoting "East Texas Radio" as a source here? If you want to dispute PolitiFact's sourced, factual assessments, please do. I'll be waiting.

Harris was tasked with exploring and addressing factors that lead to mass northward migration in the first place at the root, one of the many useless errand-boy tasks VPs are set to to make it seem like they're busy. It was a diplomatic branch offered to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. She had no role in border enforcement, border policy, or any border issues at all. Biden kept those isolated within Homeland Security's remit, where they always are.

One of Biden's many mistakes, which Obama did not make when he issued VP Biden with a similar task, was outlining her actual KPIs in this. When Biden was given this task as VP, he secured a $700 million funding package intended to beef up Central American border security, law enforcement, prison reform and support. The outcome of that is a discussion point, but there was an outcome.

Harris was not given any similar task. She was just sent on a diplomatic mission to Central America in summer 2021, told migrants not to come to the US and left. She had no authority or tasking to do anything else. I think that's a failure of Biden's, but to somehow pin this inane "border czar" tag on Harris is disingenuous in the extreme and just a nonsense political football.
You're a liar just like the Dems and CNN and MSNBC.
She was just sent on a diplomatic mission to Central America in summer 2021, told migrants not to come to the US and left. She had no authority or tasking to do anything else. I think that's a failure of Biden's, but to somehow pin this inane "border czar" tag on Harris is disingenuous in the extreme and just a nonsense political football. Which part of this statement is a lie?


About that..

from Axios. In 2021, the outlet reported that "Biden puts Harris in charge of border crisis." Another story from Axios used the phrase "border czar."

After 100 days on the job, Roberta Jacobson, President Joe Biden's first border czar, left the role on April 9, 2021, after already "grappling with large increases of migrants attempting to cross into the U.S.," The Los Angeles Times reported, saying, "Biden's border czar … is stepping down."

Before she did, Biden announced in a March 24, 2021, news conference that Harris would be responsible for addressing the southwest border surge that already began within days of him taking office. "I can think of nobody who's better qualified to do this than the former" California attorney general, Biden said.

Harris was chosen to lead the effort because "the best thing to do is to put someone [in the role] when he or she speaks they don't have to wonder about where the president is," Biden said. "When she speaks, she speaks for me. She doesn't have to check with me. She knows what she's doing. I hope we can move this along [to address the] increasing challenges at our southwest border. No one knows this better than the vice president."


You are being lied to or you are part of the historical rewrite sir.
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FLBear5630
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

Border czar, failure

Set up a bail fund for rioters in 2020

CNN: Harris' voting record in the Senate is certainly one of the most liberal


What more do I need to know?
Well, according to CNN she was never the Border Czar, that is not true.


Trump better get his ass in gear showing the facts or they will re-make her by the time he gets around to it. Between the remaking of Kamala and Vance's speeches Trump needs to get serious.

Even Politifact is in on it. They rated her being the Border Czar - "Mostly False"

PolitiFact | 'Border czar'? Kamala Harris assigned to tackle immigration's causes, not border security
 
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