Maybe part of the reason people don't think much about our $36 trillion debt is that we have difficulty comprehending the number trillion.




A trillion is 1,000 x 1 billion.

FLBear5630 said:

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J.R. said:

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4th and Inches said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The U.S. Now Has:

1. Record $18.0 trillion in household debt

2. Record $12.6 trillion in mortgages

3. Record $1.7 trillion in auto loans

4. Near record $1.6 trillion in student loans

5. Record $1.2 trillion in credit card debt

Total household debt is now up ~55% over the…

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) February 19, 2025

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mortgage debt and car loans is different from those other things although repos and foreclosures up is a bad thing

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Debt is debt. They are individual decisions. that is why I carry no debt except for business debt.

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I agree with you in theory. I have this conversation with my in-laws, farmers. They only carry "business" debt, but all their possession are the "farm". Every once in a while, they all get new cars and upgrade everything. Business debt level got too low. There is an optimal level of debt for the "business" to carry. So, yeah, to them, a car loan is a suckers deal.

I constantly hear how it is an individual choice. When you don't have to live in today's financial world and can just take a "draw" against the business those people really can't take part in the "responsible finances" conversation. Most farmers inherited land. This group inherited 3000 acres, which is now 1000 acres because they sold off the "non-farmable". So, they took 6 generations of investment and cashed it in for the lake house in their name, not the farm. Or other brothers "cashed" and walked, now working in commodities.

Sorry, JR we disagree on this one. 90% of the world is not living in yours or my in-laws world. I have NO issues with it, just don't call me or others stupid or irresponsible because we have to take out a car loan or mortgage. Myself and a majority of the Nation inherited nothing no business, no farm or trust fund. A lot of people started from scratch and being able to have a nice life, raise kids, and die when the last cent is paid back or spent is a better life than they could have hoped to have when they started out. Hearing from the trust fund group how irresponsible they are is annoying.

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didn't call you stupid at all. My point is debt is a killer. Hard to make headway with debt. Too many Americans live beyond their means while others are just trying to survive . I get that. What I know about farmland, which isn't much is that it is its own beast with generational dynamics. I have never bought a new car (certified preowned with 10K miles or so and my position is that one should drive a car that they can pay for in cash. I have friends with $1K a month car payments which they really can't afford, but man, they look kick ass!

J.R. said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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J.R. said:

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4th and Inches said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The U.S. Now Has:

1. Record $18.0 trillion in household debt

2. Record $12.6 trillion in mortgages

3. Record $1.7 trillion in auto loans

4. Near record $1.6 trillion in student loans

5. Record $1.2 trillion in credit card debt

Total household debt is now up ~55% over the…

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) February 19, 2025

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mortgage debt and car loans is different from those other things although repos and foreclosures up is a bad thing

---

Debt is debt. They are individual decisions. that is why I carry no debt except for business debt.

---

I agree with you in theory. I have this conversation with my in-laws, farmers. They only carry "business" debt, but all their possession are the "farm". Every once in a while, they all get new cars and upgrade everything. Business debt level got too low. There is an optimal level of debt for the "business" to carry. So, yeah, to them, a car loan is a suckers deal.

I constantly hear how it is an individual choice. When you don't have to live in today's financial world and can just take a "draw" against the business those people really can't take part in the "responsible finances" conversation. Most farmers inherited land. This group inherited 3000 acres, which is now 1000 acres because they sold off the "non-farmable". So, they took 6 generations of investment and cashed it in for the lake house in their name, not the farm. Or other brothers "cashed" and walked, now working in commodities.

Sorry, JR we disagree on this one. 90% of the world is not living in yours or my in-laws world. I have NO issues with it, just don't call me or others stupid or irresponsible because we have to take out a car loan or mortgage. Myself and a majority of the Nation inherited nothing no business, no farm or trust fund. A lot of people started from scratch and being able to have a nice life, raise kids, and die when the last cent is paid back or spent is a better life than they could have hoped to have when they started out. Hearing from the trust fund group how irresponsible they are is annoying.

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didn't call you stupid at all. My point is debt is a killer. Hard to make headway with debt. Too many Americans live beyond their means while others are just trying to survive . I get that. What I know about farmland, which isn't much is that it is its own beast with generational dynamics. I have never bought a new car (certified preowned with 10K miles or so and my position is that one should drive a car that they can pay for in cash. I have friends with $1K a month car payments which they really can't afford, but man, they look kick ass!

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Sorry, meant more generally not you specifically. (Maybe meant at Brother in law). Very frustrating listening to people preach no debt that just use it in a different way. As you say debt is debt. My brother in laws farm is leveraged to the hilt. But, he has no debt. How many on here use debt, but use their business? Is it the truth to say a person has no debt, when the just transfers it to the business? (Not saying it isn't smart or preferential.) Are they really living debt free?

Debt does kill. A small percentage get away from debt. Most of us manage it. Sometimes it is counter intuitive. For example, 10 years out from retirement, I am now doing things to the house and cars while I still have time to pay off. That is a different mind set from someone with real wealth. There are realities that some of us have to deal. Trying to payoff before work life ends. This is one of the tough things about a kid whose Dad had a gas station and lower enlisted goes to a school like Baylor.

Unfortunately, this is reality for far too many Americans thanks to Joe Biden, the fascists, & Bidenflation.

FLBear5630 said:

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J.R. said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

The U.S. Now Has:

1. Record $18.0 trillion in household debt

2. Record $12.6 trillion in mortgages

3. Record $1.7 trillion in auto loans

4. Near record $1.6 trillion in student loans

5. Record $1.2 trillion in credit card debt

Total household debt is now up ~55% over the…

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) February 19, 2025

---

mortgage debt and car loans is different from those other things although repos and foreclosures up is a bad thing

---

Debt is debt. They are individual decisions. that is why I carry no debt except for business debt.

---

I agree with you in theory. I have this conversation with my in-laws, farmers. They only carry "business" debt, but all their possession are the "farm". Every once in a while, they all get new cars and upgrade everything. Business debt level got too low. There is an optimal level of debt for the "business" to carry. So, yeah, to them, a car loan is a suckers deal.

I constantly hear how it is an individual choice. When you don't have to live in today's financial world and can just take a "draw" against the business those people really can't take part in the "responsible finances" conversation. Most farmers inherited land. This group inherited 3000 acres, which is now 1000 acres because they sold off the "non-farmable". So, they took 6 generations of investment and cashed it in for the lake house in their name, not the farm. Or other brothers "cashed" and walked, now working in commodities.

Sorry, JR we disagree on this one. 90% of the world is not living in yours or my in-laws world. I have NO issues with it, just don't call me or others stupid or irresponsible because we have to take out a car loan or mortgage. Myself and a majority of the Nation inherited nothing no business, no farm or trust fund. A lot of people started from scratch and being able to have a nice life, raise kids, and die when the last cent is paid back or spent is a better life than they could have hoped to have when they started out. Hearing from the trust fund group how irresponsible they are is annoying.

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didn't call you stupid at all. My point is debt is a killer. Hard to make headway with debt. Too many Americans live beyond their means while others are just trying to survive . I get that. What I know about farmland, which isn't much is that it is its own beast with generational dynamics. I have never bought a new car (certified preowned with 10K miles or so and my position is that one should drive a car that they can pay for in cash. I have friends with $1K a month car payments which they really can't afford, but man, they look kick ass!

---

Sorry, meant more generally not you specifically. (Maybe meant at Brother in law). Very frustrating listening to people preach no debt that just use it in a different way. As you say debt is debt. My brother in laws farm is leveraged to the hilt. But, he has no debt. How many on here use debt, but use their business? Is it the truth to say a person has no debt, when the just transfers it to the business? (Not saying it isn't smart or preferential.) Are they really living debt free?

Debt does kill. A small percentage get away from debt. Most of us manage it. Sometimes it is counter intuitive. For example, 10 years out from retirement, I am now doing things to the house and cars while I still have time to pay off. That is a different mind set from someone with real wealth. There are realities that some of us have to deal. Trying to payoff before work life ends. This is one of the tough things about a kid whose Dad had a gas station and lower enlisted goes to a school like Baylor.

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I have worked in Accounts Receivable for most of my career, and businesses pretty much always treat Debt as a factor of not only Operations but Growth Strategy. To a degree it makes sense, in that Debt is unavoidable in Business, but I see far too many businesses ignore debt until it becomes a crisis.

If that happens in Business, imagine individuals with no education in Financial Planning or Risk Management.

That is correct. We are all to blame. However, we elect Congress to represent us and the budget is one of their responsibilities. They can waste our money on fraud & wasteful garbage, they can be corrupt and use our money to line their pockets & buy votes. Or they can do their job and spend our money wisely and intelligently. Being human, they usually take the easy way which are the evils described above. We all have failed for years to hold them to account. It remains to be seen if justice will finally prevail even though real changes are clearly taking place in 2025.

May God give our leaders the wisdom, strength, & humility to govern correctly, to stand firm on keeping their promises to bring justice, and to govern in a godly manner. I want to be optimistic but I have real doubts as to how far this will go. We stand at a turning point in history, or so it seems. What is amazing is that God has placed a clearly flawed man in the position to lead the reformation of this country. Trump appears to be doing this. He will succeed as long as he follows God's leadership. That should be everyone be prayer.

Hold on to your hats boys, me thinks we are in for a serious correction. Optics don't look good. I'm just glad ole Trumpy Bear got inflation under control per his commitment on the first day. Oh, inflation will continue to increase and the market which Trump like to point to as the arbiter of success looks iffy. Btw, did that check from Mexico clear the bank? Where are we on the Great Wall. Any of you who believe fat boy's BS just haven't thought it through. Furthermore, Trump is starting to get pushback from his acolytes in the Congress where Trumps nonsensical cutting with no apparent pragmatism and logic is affecting their constituents and they are getting serious heat. Gonna get interesting. Trumps approval is currently the lowest of any one month POTUS in history. Ain't looking good for fat orange.

Just curious, JR;

Do you drink heavily before posts like your last one, or is channeling Joy Reid just a natural quality of your online contributions?

Oldbear83 said:

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Just curious, JR;

Do you drink heavily before posts like your last one, or is channeling Joy Reid just a natural quality of your online contributions?

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I don't drink. Furthermore, Joy Reid was terrible. Rachel Maddow, Larry Odonneld Sean Hannity, Jessie Watters, Gutfeld are all terrible. They are all bomb throwers and aren't very smart. Get back in your cube and continue to chase AR. There are decent journalists on all 3 cable networks such as Brett Beier, Anderson Cooper, Kaitlin Collins, Joe Scarborough to name a few. I cannot understand why the lunatic fringe on both sides get so worked up about TV hosts. They are all doing their jobs playing to their base. You would be much happier in life if you could just let it go.

So it's a natural trait for you. Got it.

Oldbear83 said:

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So it's a natural trait for you. Got it.

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get back to your pitiful life old man.

Poor JR, keeps confusing me for that schlub he sees when he shaves.

FLBear5630 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

The U.S. Now Has:

1. Record $18.0 trillion in household debt

2. Record $12.6 trillion in mortgages

3. Record $1.7 trillion in auto loans

4. Near record $1.6 trillion in student loans

5. Record $1.2 trillion in credit card debt

Total household debt is now up ~55% over the…

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) February 19, 2025

---

mortgage debt and car loans is different from those other things although repos and foreclosures up is a bad thing

---

Debt is debt. They are individual decisions. that is why I carry no debt except for business debt.

---

I agree with you in theory. I have this conversation with my in-laws, farmers. They only carry "business" debt, but all their possession are the "farm". Every once in a while, they all get new cars and upgrade everything. Business debt level got too low. There is an optimal level of debt for the "business" to carry. So, yeah, to them, a car loan is a suckers deal.

I constantly hear how it is an individual choice. When you don't have to live in today's financial world and can just take a "draw" against the business those people really can't take part in the "responsible finances" conversation. Most farmers inherited land. This group inherited 3000 acres, which is now 1000 acres because they sold off the "non-farmable". So, they took 6 generations of investment and cashed it in for the lake house in their name, not the farm. Or other brothers "cashed" and walked, now working in commodities.

Sorry, JR we disagree on this one. 90% of the world is not living in yours or my in-laws world. I have NO issues with it, just don't call me or others stupid or irresponsible because we have to take out a car loan or mortgage. Myself and a majority of the Nation inherited nothing no business, no farm or trust fund. A lot of people started from scratch and being able to have a nice life, raise kids, and die when the last cent is paid back or spent is a better life than they could have hoped to have when they started out. Hearing from the trust fund group how irresponsible they are is annoying.

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Inflation is the hidden tax of the Fed. It destroys people slowly over time. And in the case of very high inflation, like Biden, it destroyed people's savings in a matter of a few years. Now people cannot afford what they could just 3 years back. The middle class got sucker punched, and the political class will keep spending more and more, growing the money supply and reducing the average person's purchasing ability. Well that's how it's been. We will see if Trump changes that.

historian said:

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Unfortunately, this is reality for far too many Americans thanks to Joe Biden, the fascists, & Bidenflation.

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Biden exasperated the situation, but it wasn't exactly Joe's fault. The covid spending contributed greatly. As did the huge savings that people had on hand at the end of Covid. As did having to draw people back to work with new wage expectations. Those three factors + Bidenomics together sky-rocketed everything. Even if Trump had been re-elected, inflation would still have hit, it just wouldn't have been as pronounced.

More Americans are falling behind on their car payments:

The latest auto asset-back securities data shows that subprime 60+-day delinquencies hit 6.56% in December—the highest ever recorded.

Even prime borrowers are slipping, though not nearly as much.

And lenders are doing…

— Car Dealership Guy (@GuyDealership) February 27, 2025

Interest Rates Are Falling Thanks to Cuts in Government Spending

https://pjmedia.com/rick-moran/2025/02/28/interest-rates-are-falling-thanks-to-cuts-in-government-spending-n4937411

Atlanta FED GDPNow.... 2 ugly updates in the past week