80%, but the point remains valid https://t.co/xQGx1fRRly

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) November 22, 2024

🤣🤣🤣 pic.twitter.com/ce1bkwA915

— Not Jerome Powell (@alifarhat79) November 22, 2024

DOGE fixes this pic.twitter.com/EhhgtsA45w

— Declaration of Memes (@LibertyCappy) November 21, 2024

Over 10,000% … @DOGE is sorely needed! https://t.co/2IlINgQZHI

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) November 22, 2024

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

historian said:

---

🤣🤣🤣 pic.twitter.com/ce1bkwA915

— Not Jerome Powell (@alifarhat79) November 22, 2024

---

Not sure whether to laugh or cry with that one.

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

More people will start caring about government waste this way. Mark it.

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

A little of both: it is funny but it's also very accurate.

Thus is what happens when govt runs things. It's especially dangerous with health care.

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Nope. Unless those that don't pay taxes don't get to vote.

You shouldn't be able to vote if you don't pay taxes as you have no skin in the game and it's REAL easy to spend someone else's money.

I don't even care if it's 1% under 20k, 2% under 30k etc.

40% of American households pay no tax and that's a HUGE problem.

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

You would also shock the **** out of people when sales taxes and VAT are 30%+ and your real estate taxes double.

It establishes pretty clearly that the federal government is a bunch of parasites mooching off of taxpayers.

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

bearassnekkid said:

---

J.R. said:

---

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

---

^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

whiterock said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

J.R. said:

---

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

---

^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

---

I can be all in on VAT but:
1) the government has no idea how much product a vendor sold which often leads to misreporting or outright falsifying of sales tax records

2) each month I collect sales taxes to the tune of 7-10k dollars. I am responsible for holding that money in my bank and remitting it to the state. It's probably not reason #1 but I bet it's reason number #1C why small businesses fail especially when cash flow is tight. I've already had a competitor go out of business because he couldn't pay his sales taxes.

3) sales taxes are calculated on the SALE and not the collection. Therefore, if I sell a job that is $10,000 in January I owe the state $725 in sales taxes on Feb 20th. If that job was paid in full that's not a big deal. If that job is 30/60/90 or net 45+ I may be responsible for paying sales taxes with money I haven't collected. Now sell 4-5-6 jobs a month and, especially starting out, that can be a real problem. That's not as large of a problem in a purely transactional business but there are LOTS of service businesses.

nein51 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

J.R. said:

---

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

---

^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

---

I can be all in on VAT but:
1) the government has no idea how much product a vendor sold which often leads to misreporting or outright falsifying of sales tax records

2) each month I collect sales taxes to the tune of 7-10k dollars. I am responsible for holding that money in my bank and remitting it to the state. It's probably not reason #1 but I bet it's reason number #1C why small businesses fail especially when cash flow is tight. I've already had a competitor go out of business because he couldn't pay his sales taxes.

3) sales taxes are calculated on the SALE and not the collection. Therefore, if I sell a job that is $10,000 in January I owe the state $725 in sales taxes on Feb 20th. If that job was paid in full that's not a big deal. If that job is 30/60/90 or net 45+ I may be responsible for paying sales taxes with money I haven't collected. Now sell 4-5-6 jobs a month and, especially starting out, that can be a real problem. That's not as large of a problem in a purely transactional business but there are LOTS of service businesses.

---

all good concerns...details to work thru, those and more. But technically, sales tax and VAT are not identical levies. I am less excited about VAT. Would prefer a straight up end-user sales tax on everything. Sales tax is right there on the receipt, staring back at you.

whiterock said:

---

nein51 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

J.R. said:

---

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

---

^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

---

I can be all in on VAT but:
1) the government has no idea how much product a vendor sold which often leads to misreporting or outright falsifying of sales tax records

2) each month I collect sales taxes to the tune of 7-10k dollars. I am responsible for holding that money in my bank and remitting it to the state. It's probably not reason #1 but I bet it's reason number #1C why small businesses fail especially when cash flow is tight. I've already had a competitor go out of business because he couldn't pay his sales taxes.

3) sales taxes are calculated on the SALE and not the collection. Therefore, if I sell a job that is $10,000 in January I owe the state $725 in sales taxes on Feb 20th. If that job was paid in full that's not a big deal. If that job is 30/60/90 or net 45+ I may be responsible for paying sales taxes with money I haven't collected. Now sell 4-5-6 jobs a month and, especially starting out, that can be a real problem. That's not as large of a problem in a purely transactional business but there are LOTS of service businesses.

---

all good concerns...details to work thru, those and more. But technically, sales tax and VAT are not identical levies. I am less excited about VAT. Would prefer a straight up end-user sales tax on everything. Sales tax is right there on the receipt, staring back at you.

---

And I'm sure we can arrive at the technology soon to where the money goes straight to the US coffers at the point of sale... so the merchants never have to mess with it. Idk - but they may be a fan of not having to do that book keeping.

Married A Horn said:

---

whiterock said:

---

nein51 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

J.R. said:

---

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

---

^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

---

I can be all in on VAT but:
1) the government has no idea how much product a vendor sold which often leads to misreporting or outright falsifying of sales tax records

2) each month I collect sales taxes to the tune of 7-10k dollars. I am responsible for holding that money in my bank and remitting it to the state. It's probably not reason #1 but I bet it's reason number #1C why small businesses fail especially when cash flow is tight. I've already had a competitor go out of business because he couldn't pay his sales taxes.

3) sales taxes are calculated on the SALE and not the collection. Therefore, if I sell a job that is $10,000 in January I owe the state $725 in sales taxes on Feb 20th. If that job was paid in full that's not a big deal. If that job is 30/60/90 or net 45+ I may be responsible for paying sales taxes with money I haven't collected. Now sell 4-5-6 jobs a month and, especially starting out, that can be a real problem. That's not as large of a problem in a purely transactional business but there are LOTS of service businesses.

---

all good concerns...details to work thru, those and more. But technically, sales tax and VAT are not identical levies. I am less excited about VAT. Would prefer a straight up end-user sales tax on everything. Sales tax is right there on the receipt, staring back at you.

---

And I'm sure we can arrive at the technology soon to where the money goes straight to the US coffers at the point of sale... so the merchants never have to mess with it. Idk - but they may be a fan of not having to do that book keeping.

---

I owned a small business($2m/yr) for a decade. Understand completely what you're talking about on cash flow for small businesses. Corporate America will not have that problem, and that is the majority of GDP = Fortune 500 is approx 2/3rds of the economy. I would expect to see banks and/or software firms building financial services for smaller businesses to separate the tax funds out of daily deposits.

Suspect implementation will be less of a problem than you fear.

IRS as we know it goes away. Never again will an individual get hauled into explain their personal transactions. Just straight up audits of company books, likely mostly doable on-line.

We can then decommission all those SWAT teams the IRS hired.....

J.R. said:

---

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Our government functioned effectively for 150 years without an income tax. I was going to add "even winning the Civil War", but the government actually imposed an unconstitutional income tax during the war. Thankfully it ended when the war did. Still, America proved it possible to operate without it gif mist of our history, managing all kinds of issues including dramatic population growth & industrialization.

If the income tax were to be abolished, we would have to radically rethink how our government works. It would have to be smaller & assume far fewer responsibilities. For some of us, that's the point: the federal government does much it has no business doing (ie education) and much of it is arguably unconstitutional. It is unfortunate & perverse that the 10th amendment is generally ignored.

This would mean individuals would have to take more responsibility for their own lives because they could not expect Big Brother to bail them out if they experienced a tragedy of some sort. This is also the point. Government has proven to be unreliable & untrustworthy repeatedly. More often than not, they waste resources or abuse them fraudulently. The people of western North Carolina still have seen little or nothing from FEMA months after the hurricane. More often than not, the government creates the crises in the first place. One only needs to look at our open borders, the illegal immigration debacle, and the crime wave it helped create. There are many more examples.

According to SBA (consider the source) 99.9% of US businesses are small business which is fewer than 500 employees.

97.5% have fewer than 100 employees.

I often hear people like me say "I shouldn't be responsible for collecting the states money" and I understand why. We are militant about our taxes because I don't want to go to jail but I can tell you we are definitely in the minority.

I had one guy tell me "how would I afford my boat if I paid my sales taxes correctly". lol

whiterock said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

whiterock said:

---

nein51 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

J.R. said:

---

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

---

^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

---

I can be all in on VAT but:
1) the government has no idea how much product a vendor sold which often leads to misreporting or outright falsifying of sales tax records

2) each month I collect sales taxes to the tune of 7-10k dollars. I am responsible for holding that money in my bank and remitting it to the state. It's probably not reason #1 but I bet it's reason number #1C why small businesses fail especially when cash flow is tight. I've already had a competitor go out of business because he couldn't pay his sales taxes.

3) sales taxes are calculated on the SALE and not the collection. Therefore, if I sell a job that is $10,000 in January I owe the state $725 in sales taxes on Feb 20th. If that job was paid in full that's not a big deal. If that job is 30/60/90 or net 45+ I may be responsible for paying sales taxes with money I haven't collected. Now sell 4-5-6 jobs a month and, especially starting out, that can be a real problem. That's not as large of a problem in a purely transactional business but there are LOTS of service businesses.

---

all good concerns...details to work thru, those and more. But technically, sales tax and VAT are not identical levies. I am less excited about VAT. Would prefer a straight up end-user sales tax on everything. Sales tax is right there on the receipt, staring back at you.

---

And I'm sure we can arrive at the technology soon to where the money goes straight to the US coffers at the point of sale... so the merchants never have to mess with it. Idk - but they may be a fan of not having to do that book keeping.

---

I owned a small business($2m/yr) for a decade. Understand completely what you're talking about on cash flow for small businesses. Corporate America will not have that problem, and that is the majority of GDP = Fortune 500 is approx 2/3rds of the economy. I would expect to see banks and/or software firms building financial services for smaller businesses to separate the tax funds out of daily deposits.

Suspect implementation will be less of a problem than you fear.

IRS as we know it goes away. Never again will an individual get hauled into explain their personal transactions. Just straight up audits of company books, likely mostly doable on-line.

We can then decommission all those SWAT teams the IRS hired.....

---

Make Ammunition Cheap Again

william said:

---

---

Honestly, GDP and GNP as a measure of national prosperity have lost much of their meaning in the years following the financialization of the economy. Counting anything that comes out of DC towards GDP shows how flawed it is. GDP is better than GNP, but a measure of true prosperity and productivity must exclude rent seeking.

Excellent points

whiterock said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

J.R. said:

---

historian said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

---

^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

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I definitely like the idea of replacing the including tax with a national sales tax AND exempting staples. Basic food items and medicine should not be taxed. The hood news is that that stuff is already exempt from sales taxes, at least in Texas.

Also, gasoline should not be taxed again. It already is taxed at an excessive rate. I like the way the amount of tax per gallon is listed on the pumps.

Those are real issues that need to be fixed. It should be possible to help out businesses, especially the small ones, by addressing these problems. I bet you have a few ideas on how to do that. Once this is done, sales taxes work better. A sales tax is still better than income taxes (not VAT).

Married A Horn said:

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whiterock said:

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nein51 said:

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whiterock said:

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bearassnekkid said:

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J.R. said:

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historian said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

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Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

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Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

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Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

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^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

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I can be all in on VAT but:
1) the government has no idea how much product a vendor sold which often leads to misreporting or outright falsifying of sales tax records

2) each month I collect sales taxes to the tune of 7-10k dollars. I am responsible for holding that money in my bank and remitting it to the state. It's probably not reason #1 but I bet it's reason number #1C why small businesses fail especially when cash flow is tight. I've already had a competitor go out of business because he couldn't pay his sales taxes.

3) sales taxes are calculated on the SALE and not the collection. Therefore, if I sell a job that is $10,000 in January I owe the state $725 in sales taxes on Feb 20th. If that job was paid in full that's not a big deal. If that job is 30/60/90 or net 45+ I may be responsible for paying sales taxes with money I haven't collected. Now sell 4-5-6 jobs a month and, especially starting out, that can be a real problem. That's not as large of a problem in a purely transactional business but there are LOTS of service businesses.

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all good concerns...details to work thru, those and more. But technically, sales tax and VAT are not identical levies. I am less excited about VAT. Would prefer a straight up end-user sales tax on everything. Sales tax is right there on the receipt, staring back at you.

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And I'm sure we can arrive at the technology soon to where the money goes straight to the US coffers at the point of sale... so the merchants never have to mess with it. Idk - but they may be a fan of not having to do that book keeping.

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Agreed. However, I'm not sure a trust the feds to manage that properly.

historian said:

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whiterock said:

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bearassnekkid said:

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J.R. said:

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historian said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Replace IRS with flat tax. Everyone pays the same rate above 50k. Your first 50k is not taxed, over 50k is taxed at 15%. Zero deductions, zero loopholes. Tax form is 4 lines: https://t.co/fQMkfApy1g

— Zach Von Rosenberg (@ZVR09) November 21, 2024

---

Great idea but make it 10%

Ultimately, I'd like to see the income tax abolished completely. It was never a good idea, makes government more tyrannical, & encourages government to spend too much money on worthless garbage. Ideally, it's none of their business how much money you make.

However, I don't really believe it will happen since it would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th & 75% of the states to ratify. More than 80% of states have their own income taxes and those politicians will not want to kill the cash cow. It also would require lots of people to rethink how things are done: what government does & its relationship to citizens.

---

Everyone would love to see the IT abolished, but that is fantasy. How would the govt function? Listening.

---

Tax consumption instead of income. You keep 100% of your pay. You pay taxes when you buy stuff. Wealthy people pay more tax because they buy more. The collection mechanism is already in place because we already collect state sales tax at transactions. The math is feasible and has been worked out. Of course it should also come in conjunction with massive government spending cuts, but that should be true regardless of the taxation/collection method.

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^^This^^

Everybody pays. It's egalitarian: the poor pay less because they spend less; the rich pay more because they spend more. It's also transparent: everyone will see their tax bill every time they get a receipt, and be reminded that they do have stake in how THEIR money is spent in Washington.

Nothing could be more healthy for the Republic than the replacement of the income tax with a national sales tax.

And having mentioned health......we could exempt staples from sales tax to encourage healthier eating = no sales tax on milk, butter, eggs, flour, vegetables, fruits, etc..... Make Americans Cook Again

---

I definitely like the idea of replacing the including tax with a national sales tax AND exempting staples. Basic food items and medicine should not be taxed. The hood news is that that stuff is already exempt from sales taxes, at least in Texas.

Also, gasoline should not be taxed again. It already is taxed at an excessive rate. I like the way the amount of tax per gallon is listed on the pumps.

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Not sure you can advocate for a consumption tax and also say fuel shouldn't be taxed. It's one of the only consumption taxes we have.

I'm arguing against taxing fuel twice. It's already taxed.

historian said:

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Those are real issues that need to be fixed. It should be possible to help out businesses, especially the small ones, by addressing these problems. I bet you have a few ideas on how to do that. Once this is done, sales taxes work better. A sales tax is still better than income taxes (not VAT).

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It solves the problem of some people paying nothing but it would have to be HUGE % to make up for income taxes.

There's probably some irony here in that income taxes on a strictly dollar basis overwhelmingly effect the rich more than the poor who often pay nothing or even negative.

Reduction of government is far more important than any tax cut. When tax reform is combined with serious reductions in government spending (rules, regulations, & bureaucrats too) then the benefits are maximized. That puts us on the road back to a true market economy with true freedom and away from The Road to Serfdom.

(btw, I recommend that Hayek book to anyone interested in these ideas. Try to get the 1990s edition with an excellent foreword by Milton Friedman.)

historian said:

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Reduction of government is far more important than any tax cut. When tax reform is combined with serious reductions in government spending (rules, regulations, & bureaucrats too) then the benefits are maximized. That puts us on the road back to a true market economy with true freedom and away from The Road to Serfdom.

(btw, I recommend that Hayek book to anyone interested in these ideas. Try to get the 1990s edition with an excellent foreword by Milton Friedman.)

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There's no doubt change is needed. I'm merely pointing out that if change was easy everyone would do it. It's a lot more complex than "just make it a flat tax".

FTR I mostly agree with you.