Assassin said:

---

And remember, this isnt totally in any way about the drug boats. Maduro is about to be overthrown. This is partially about the Columbians coming in once he is overthrown. Right now there are 10s of thousands of Columbians mercenaries in the country. Venezuela used to be one of the most modern countries in SA. Triple digit inflation has wiped the country out. And Venezuela has the highest oil reserves in SA also. And some of the highest of rare minerals

---

Careful…you were dangerously close to telling the truth there.

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Assassin said:

---

I'm absolutely for it. Blow these guys out of the water before the cocaine hits our shores. As a recovering addict (35 years), I dont want that stuff anywhere near me

Every one of these hits has been a drug boat or submarine. That whole Ecuador found a survivor from a submarine that said he wasnt running drugs was 100% BS. What idiot would be in a drug submarine if it werent carrying drugs?

This is what Rand Paul said "About 25% of the time the Coast Guard boards a ship, there are no drugs."
Not that the drug boats we have hit are not carrying drugs

---

...so, 75% of the time there are drugs?

I guarantee that 100% of Central American subs are diesel-electric boats running drugs. Why? Their national navies have none.

South American countries have a very limited amount. For example Ecuador has two Type 209 diesel-electric subs that descend from a 1960s design...but has retired 8 from service which probably are in the hands of cartels. Veneuzela has (had?) one

Submarines By Country, 2025

Some interesting information in that chart btw. The Egyptian and Algerian navies have more subs than Canada and as many (Algeria) or more (Egypt) than Australia. Of course this says nothing about the technology in these hulls, or their propulsion system.

---

From what I've read, these are 'narco surface subs'. In other words, they can't really submerge all the way, the conning tower and air breathers are above the surface. The body is submersible, but not the rest of the boat. They biggest haul of a narco sub is 17.7 tons of cocaine. These are not Naval submarines, they are built for one thing, to try to escape detection and run drugs

---

What does Gilligan have to do with this? What if he didn't know Lovey had smack on her?

---

You are going to see them put hostages on these boats. They will put women and children for the ride, maybe even the promise of dropping off on American soil.

---

They already traffic humans and drugs together on many different routes. No reason they can't do the same with these boats.

The question I have is why don't they just follow the boat and intercept at the destination? Don't you then take out even more of the trafficking participants?

---

Probably because we have been doing something like this for decades and the drug cartels were not intimidated by our court system. There was little fear of spending time in US prisons.

However getting blown to bits sends a message the cartels can understand…..clearly.

Just like when Singapore finally executed ANYONE attempting to smuggle drugs into their country ….did their drug problem get dramatically reduced.

Of course those who like the 'freedom' of drug use were outraged with the process.

---

The question is why don't they initiate the strike at the destination?

---

Not too many posts ago, you lauded the Singapore Solution (death penalty for users). Why would you not also laud a death penalty equivalent (military strike) for traffickers?

And if we destroy their craft, destroy their bases, and destroy the regime giving them safehaven, will you still insist we execute our own citizens as the only viable solution?

---

You can't destroy their craft.
LOL of course we can. We're doing it right now.
We produce drugs domestically.
And have local/state/federal efforts to interdict it.
When are you attacking our citizens?
LOL you proposed that, not me.
When are you invading China?
Never. Better to avoid WWIII by destabilizing their proxies.

Also, I never "lauded" the Singapore solution, just pointed out with out demand or need change, we'll just continue to escalate. You're now talking a global war over drugs. That's simply crazy talk.
No, global war. Just war against drug cartel controlled regimes using drug trade as unconventional warfare against us.

---

your argument is based on the faulty premise that if we eliminate demand for drugs, there will be no drug smuggling. Short of the draconian policy you cited, elimination of demand is not going to happen. We need a policy that can work in the real world.

One of the most important geopolitical lessons of Vietnam was that you cannot win a war on strategic defensive. You must be on strategic offensive. We see that dynamic at work in prior us drug policy - just defending our borders and our neighborhoods with law enforcement against well-funded cartels operating from safehavens afforded by rogue and/or dysfunctional/failing states. The proper response to that escalating problem is not to double down on defense, but go on offense....use our military to interdict supply lines, and if possible to destabilize states who have become key nodes on those supply lines.

We have to work the drug problem at all levels of policy response....... To include making it clear that a rogue state cannot use narcotics trade as a tool of unconventional warfare which is inherently shielded against military response.

all quiet on the southern front.........

- uncle fred*

maybe message received.

on espere.....

* dir. ufri

D!

william said:

---

all quiet on the southern front.........

- uncle fred*

maybe message received.

on espere.....

* dir. ufri

D!

---

read this weekend that a Presidential Finding has been signed to allow CIA to do kinetic operations in Venezuela.

I'm guessing that involves docks, warehouses, air hangars, etc.....used in drug cartel ops. That may well spark a Venezuelan response, even if only from elements of the regime rather than the regime itself.

We are poking Maduro in the chest....backing him across the schoolyard.....trying to force him to take a swing at us.

meh - I seriously the ex- chauffeur is calling the shots.

- uncle fred

now if putin wants a little mano a mano* - wh/ he might - then it's game on.

like tandy pong.

D!

{ sipping coffee }

* not mano y mano like many imbeciles say

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And remember, this isnt totally in any way about the drug boats. Maduro is about to be overthrown. This is partially about the Columbians coming in once he is overthrown. Right now there are 10s of thousands of Columbians mercenaries in the country. Venezuela used to be one of the most modern countries in SA. Triple digit inflation has wiped the country out. And Venezuela has the highest oil reserves in SA also. And some of the highest of rare minerals

---

Careful…you were dangerously close to telling the truth there.

---

And yet it is partially about the drug boats. Getting rid of Fentanyl and Cocaine being dispersed through Venezuela is a HUGE reason to push Maduro out of power. His cash flow is drying up quickly, he's losing cartel support. He is failing and now we have troops and ships ready to help push him out. This could easily roll over into other SA countries and be a domino effect on all the socialist groups/aka Chinese in in SA

This is massive.

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And remember, this isnt totally in any way about the drug boats. Maduro is about to be overthrown. This is partially about the Columbians coming in once he is overthrown. Right now there are 10s of thousands of Columbians mercenaries in the country. Venezuela used to be one of the most modern countries in SA. Triple digit inflation has wiped the country out. And Venezuela has the highest oil reserves in SA also. And some of the highest of rare minerals

---

Careful…you were dangerously close to telling the truth there.

---

And yet it is partially about the drug boats. Getting rid of Fentanyl and Cocaine being dispersed through Venezuela is a HUGE reason to push Maduro out of power. His cash flow is drying up quickly, he's losing cartel support. He is failing and now we have troops and ships ready to help push him out. This could easily roll over into other SA countries and be a domino effect on all the socialist groups/aka Chinese in in SA

This is massive.

---

And massively irrelevant to the problem of fentanyl, little or none of which comes from Venezuela.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And remember, this isnt totally in any way about the drug boats. Maduro is about to be overthrown. This is partially about the Columbians coming in once he is overthrown. Right now there are 10s of thousands of Columbians mercenaries in the country. Venezuela used to be one of the most modern countries in SA. Triple digit inflation has wiped the country out. And Venezuela has the highest oil reserves in SA also. And some of the highest of rare minerals

---

Careful…you were dangerously close to telling the truth there.

---

And yet it is partially about the drug boats. Getting rid of Fentanyl and Cocaine being dispersed through Venezuela is a HUGE reason to push Maduro out of power. His cash flow is drying up quickly, he's losing cartel support. He is failing and now we have troops and ships ready to help push him out. This could easily roll over into other SA countries and be a domino effect on all the socialist groups/aka Chinese in in SA

This is massive.

---

And massively irrelevant to the problem of fentanyl, little or none of which comes from Venezuela.

---

Incorrect. It's not MADE in Venezuela, neither is cocaine. Tons of both come through V to the USA.

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And remember, this isnt totally in any way about the drug boats. Maduro is about to be overthrown. This is partially about the Columbians coming in once he is overthrown. Right now there are 10s of thousands of Columbians mercenaries in the country. Venezuela used to be one of the most modern countries in SA. Triple digit inflation has wiped the country out. And Venezuela has the highest oil reserves in SA also. And some of the highest of rare minerals

---

Careful…you were dangerously close to telling the truth there.

---

And yet it is partially about the drug boats. Getting rid of Fentanyl and Cocaine being dispersed through Venezuela is a HUGE reason to push Maduro out of power. His cash flow is drying up quickly, he's losing cartel support. He is failing and now we have troops and ships ready to help push him out. This could easily roll over into other SA countries and be a domino effect on all the socialist groups/aka Chinese in in SA

This is massive.

---

And massively irrelevant to the problem of fentanyl, little or none of which comes from Venezuela.

---

Incorrect. It's not MADE in Venezuela, neither is cocaine. Tons of both come through V to the USA.

---

Nope.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And remember, this isnt totally in any way about the drug boats. Maduro is about to be overthrown. This is partially about the Columbians coming in once he is overthrown. Right now there are 10s of thousands of Columbians mercenaries in the country. Venezuela used to be one of the most modern countries in SA. Triple digit inflation has wiped the country out. And Venezuela has the highest oil reserves in SA also. And some of the highest of rare minerals

---

Careful…you were dangerously close to telling the truth there.

---

And yet it is partially about the drug boats. Getting rid of Fentanyl and Cocaine being dispersed through Venezuela is a HUGE reason to push Maduro out of power. His cash flow is drying up quickly, he's losing cartel support. He is failing and now we have troops and ships ready to help push him out. This could easily roll over into other SA countries and be a domino effect on all the socialist groups/aka Chinese in in SA

This is massive.

---

And massively irrelevant to the problem of fentanyl, little or none of which comes from Venezuela.

---

Incorrect. It's not MADE in Venezuela, neither is cocaine. Tons of both come through V to the USA.

---

Nope.

---

Yep

algonquin...........

- uncle fred

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

What's really bizarre is that anyone would be against this. The POTUS has just stopped dozens of tons of drugs coming into the US that would have killed thousands of people. How can you argue about the legal way that he did it?

US just sent a aircraft carrier into the same area. Maduro is going down

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

---

LOL.......it's not a MAGA tactic. It's public opinion.

Fact: Voters support blowing drug running speedboats to smithereens.

Courts are not likely to overturn his designation of certain cartels as terror groups, either. So whine on and keep losing elections.....

What do you think the courts and public opinion will rule on the following ?

Lawmakers Demand Answers on ICE's Use of Israeli Spyware (primary source comes from an article in Wired)

Lawmakers want answers from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) use of spyware that can access mobile phones without knowledge or consent. Graphite can gain unauthorized access to mobile phone encrypted applications, location data, messages, and photographs.

Paragon the Israeli company who owns the spy software does claim it has safeguards in place to protect against civil liberty and privacy violations. It comes with the ability for "zero-click" access to messaging apps and has been used to at least spy on journalists and human rights activists. One of the fears is that it allows ICE officers to use this spyware in a manner that could threaten Americans' freedom of speech and movement.

"Allowing ICE to utilize spyware raises serious questions about whether ICE will respect Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure for people residing in the U.S.," stated the letter. Neither ICE nor Homeland Security have given any internal legal justifications for deploying such technology in immigration enforcement, nor a list of surveillance targets and ICE's domestic spying strategy.

The letter also requested that the Department of Homeland Security furnish detailed information as to their evaluation of how the use of Graphite may violate the current executive order that prohibits the operational use of commercial spyware that may pose counterintelligence or security risks to the federal government.

It should also be noted that according to recent Supreme Court rulings, law enforcement must require a warrant before accessing cell phone content or location data.

"Lawmakers" huh, but no names?

I can smell it from here, you need to flush,maybe turn on some fans dude.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

---

LOL.......it's not a MAGA tactic. It's public opinion.

Fact: Voters support blowing drug running speedboats to smithereens.

Courts are not likely to overturn his designation of certain cartels as terror groups, either. So whine on and keep losing elections.....

---

ONCE AGAIN, nobody is questioning the "what" it is the "how". What we are doing breaks International Law. I get that you don't care about that, you are an "ends justifies the means" type, at least when it doesn't effect you. But that does not make you right. This is pure might makes right and we are killing people with no declared war or due process. If you don't get that, I am not sure it is worth discussing further. As, has been my experience, you are ALWAYS right and if not you will throw enough BS at the wall and lecture... I am not interested in any more of your lectures twisted to justify fascist behavior.

And since when do opinion polls determine whether we should do something? Opinion polls favored Student Loan forgiveness, but that was out of bounds and it was Socialist. Or fake polls. My favorite, whatever you don't like is fake.

Actually NEVER voted Democrat in my life. Trump has me there. I am going Democrat after this fiasco. So we will see. By the way, didn't Trump lose in 2020? Oh, yeah. Fake...

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

---

LOL.......it's not a MAGA tactic. It's public opinion.

Fact: Voters support blowing drug running speedboats to smithereens.

Courts are not likely to overturn his designation of certain cartels as terror groups, either. So whine on and keep losing elections.....

---

ONCE AGAIN, nobody is questioning the "what" it is the "how". What we are doing breaks International Law. I get that you don't care about that, you are an "ends justifies the means" type, at least when it doesn't effect you. But that does not make you right. This is pure might makes right and we are killing people with no declared war or due process. If you don't get that, I am not sure it is worth discussing further. As, has been my experience, you are ALWAYS right and if not you will throw enough BS at the wall and lecture... I am not interested in any more of your lectures twisted to justify fascist behavior.

And since when do opinion polls determine whether we should do something? Opinion polls favored Student Loan forgiveness, but that was out of bounds and it was Socialist. Or fake polls. My favorite, whatever you don't like is fake.

Actually NEVER voted Democrat in my life. Trump has me there. I am going Democrat after this fiasco. So we will see. By the way, didn't Trump lose in 2020? Oh, yeah. Fake...

---

You understand that the notion of international law is mostly performative nonsense, right?

BUDOS said:

---

What do you think the courts and public opinion will rule on the following ?

Lawmakers Demand Answers on ICE's Use of Israeli Spyware (primary source comes from an article in Wired)

Lawmakers want answers from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) use of spyware that can access mobile phones without knowledge or consent. Graphite can gain unauthorized access to mobile phone encrypted applications, location data, messages, and photographs.

Paragon the Israeli company who owns the spy software does claim it has safeguards in place to protect against civil liberty and privacy violations. It comes with the ability for "zero-click" access to messaging apps and has been used to at least spy on journalists and human rights activists. One of the fears is that it allows ICE officers to use this spyware in a manner that could threaten Americans' freedom of speech and movement.

"Allowing ICE to utilize spyware raises serious questions about whether ICE will respect Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure for people residing in the U.S.," stated the letter. Neither ICE nor Homeland Security have given any internal legal justifications for deploying such technology in immigration enforcement, nor a list of surveillance targets and ICE's domestic spying strategy.

The letter also requested that the Department of Homeland Security furnish detailed information as to their evaluation of how the use of Graphite may violate the current executive order that prohibits the operational use of commercial spyware that may pose counterintelligence or security risks to the federal government.

It should also be noted that according to recent Supreme Court rulings, law enforcement must require a warrant before accessing cell phone content or location data.

---

I would hope they would look skeptically at it and demand warrants before anyone's communications are collected.

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

---

LOL.......it's not a MAGA tactic. It's public opinion.

Fact: Voters support blowing drug running speedboats to smithereens.

Courts are not likely to overturn his designation of certain cartels as terror groups, either. So whine on and keep losing elections.....

---

ONCE AGAIN, nobody is questioning the "what" it is the "how". What we are doing breaks International Law.
No, it doesn't. But it does sound really cool when you say it that way.
I get that you don't care about that, you are an "ends justifies the means" type, at least when it doesn't effect you. But that does not make you right. This is pure might makes right and we are killing people with no declared war or due process.
You are ignoring facts and reality. We declare war against a state. We do not declare war against stateless entities. We designate them as enemies (like we did AQ, et al). The president, acting on existing statutory authority, has declared drug cartels as enemies (terrorists). Enemies on the battlefield do not get due process. They get "Rule 303."
If you don't get that, I am not sure it is worth discussing further. As, has been my experience, you are ALWAYS right and if not you will throw enough BS at the wall and lecture... I am not interested in any more of your lectures twisted to justify fascist behavior.
If I'm arguing a point, I'm doing so because I know I'm right and can easily defend it.

And since when do opinion polls determine whether we should do something? Opinion polls favored Student Loan forgiveness, but that was out of bounds and it was Socialist. Or fake polls. My favorite, whatever you don't like is fake.
Public opinion does matter in a republic with participatory democratic processes, doesn't it? it should inform policymakers on their duty, shouldn't it? It should have SOME level of impact on policy and statute, shouldn't it? As a more practical matter, though, it obviously shows that you are quite a bit out of the mainstream on the issue, contriving nonsensical points at odds with law domestic and international just because you are desperate to find something with which to prove the Orange Man really is a no-good, terrible, really bad person.

Actually NEVER voted Democrat in my life. Trump has me there. I am going Democrat after this fiasco. So we will see. By the way, didn't Trump lose in 2020? Oh, yeah. Fake...

---

You're going to vote Democrat because Trump used existing statute to declare Venezuelan gang & drug cartels as terror organization in order to justify sinking a half-dozen Venezuelan cartel watercraft headed to the USA in the open seas?

Emote much?

whiterock said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

What do you think the courts and public opinion will rule on the following ?

Lawmakers Demand Answers on ICE's Use of Israeli Spyware (primary source comes from an article in Wired)

Lawmakers want answers from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) use of spyware that can access mobile phones without knowledge or consent. Graphite can gain unauthorized access to mobile phone encrypted applications, location data, messages, and photographs.

Paragon the Israeli company who owns the spy software does claim it has safeguards in place to protect against civil liberty and privacy violations. It comes with the ability for "zero-click" access to messaging apps and has been used to at least spy on journalists and human rights activists. One of the fears is that it allows ICE officers to use this spyware in a manner that could threaten Americans' freedom of speech and movement.

"Allowing ICE to utilize spyware raises serious questions about whether ICE will respect Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure for people residing in the U.S.," stated the letter. Neither ICE nor Homeland Security have given any internal legal justifications for deploying such technology in immigration enforcement, nor a list of surveillance targets and ICE's domestic spying strategy.

The letter also requested that the Department of Homeland Security furnish detailed information as to their evaluation of how the use of Graphite may violate the current executive order that prohibits the operational use of commercial spyware that may pose counterintelligence or security risks to the federal government.

It should also be noted that according to recent Supreme Court rulings, law enforcement must require a warrant before accessing cell phone content or location data.

---

I would hope they would look skeptically at it and demand warrants before anyone's communications are collected.

---

They won't. They will spy and ask for forgiveness. The citizens will make arguments for it as long as they believe it's being used to spy on the citizens we disagree with.

Robert Wilson said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

---

LOL.......it's not a MAGA tactic. It's public opinion.

Fact: Voters support blowing drug running speedboats to smithereens.

Courts are not likely to overturn his designation of certain cartels as terror groups, either. So whine on and keep losing elections.....

---

ONCE AGAIN, nobody is questioning the "what" it is the "how". What we are doing breaks International Law. I get that you don't care about that, you are an "ends justifies the means" type, at least when it doesn't effect you. But that does not make you right. This is pure might makes right and we are killing people with no declared war or due process. If you don't get that, I am not sure it is worth discussing further. As, has been my experience, you are ALWAYS right and if not you will throw enough BS at the wall and lecture... I am not interested in any more of your lectures twisted to justify fascist behavior.

And since when do opinion polls determine whether we should do something? Opinion polls favored Student Loan forgiveness, but that was out of bounds and it was Socialist. Or fake polls. My favorite, whatever you don't like is fake.

Actually NEVER voted Democrat in my life. Trump has me there. I am going Democrat after this fiasco. So we will see. By the way, didn't Trump lose in 2020? Oh, yeah. Fake...

---

You understand that the notion of international law is mostly performative nonsense, right?

---

Until you have a dispute or claim...

So no, Maritime Law is real and we do subscribe to it. Or at least we did. You guys have got to stop supporting things based on Bannon podcasts...

Is The United States Under Maritime Law? - Maritime Page

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

whiterock said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

What do you think the courts and public opinion will rule on the following ?

Lawmakers Demand Answers on ICE's Use of Israeli Spyware (primary source comes from an article in Wired)

Lawmakers want answers from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) use of spyware that can access mobile phones without knowledge or consent. Graphite can gain unauthorized access to mobile phone encrypted applications, location data, messages, and photographs.

Paragon the Israeli company who owns the spy software does claim it has safeguards in place to protect against civil liberty and privacy violations. It comes with the ability for "zero-click" access to messaging apps and has been used to at least spy on journalists and human rights activists. One of the fears is that it allows ICE officers to use this spyware in a manner that could threaten Americans' freedom of speech and movement.

"Allowing ICE to utilize spyware raises serious questions about whether ICE will respect Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure for people residing in the U.S.," stated the letter. Neither ICE nor Homeland Security have given any internal legal justifications for deploying such technology in immigration enforcement, nor a list of surveillance targets and ICE's domestic spying strategy.

The letter also requested that the Department of Homeland Security furnish detailed information as to their evaluation of how the use of Graphite may violate the current executive order that prohibits the operational use of commercial spyware that may pose counterintelligence or security risks to the federal government.

It should also be noted that according to recent Supreme Court rulings, law enforcement must require a warrant before accessing cell phone content or location data.

---

I would hope they would look skeptically at it and demand warrants before anyone's communications are collected.

---

They won't. They will spy and ask for forgiveness. The citizens will make arguments for it as long as they believe it's being used to spy on the citizens we disagree with.

---

pronoun disconnect. The "they" I was referring to was the courts, not the policymakers. You are correct that policymakers will typically push the boundaries of statute, though. (Democrats far moreso than Republicans, at least until Trump.) It's an inherent part of the system. Takes years of work in courts, statutes, and ballot boxes to change directions. It can be a long, hard slog to get redress of a grievance, but we do have due process and free speech to help things along. Takes a lot of patience and elbow grease to change policy, which of course is also an inherent part of the system. It shouldn't be too easy to change policy direction, as such is destructive to a wide range of interests impacted by the policy, not all of which are bad.

whiterock said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

What do you think the courts and public opinion will rule on the following ?

Lawmakers Demand Answers on ICE's Use of Israeli Spyware (primary source comes from an article in Wired)

Lawmakers want answers from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) use of spyware that can access mobile phones without knowledge or consent. Graphite can gain unauthorized access to mobile phone encrypted applications, location data, messages, and photographs.

Paragon the Israeli company who owns the spy software does claim it has safeguards in place to protect against civil liberty and privacy violations. It comes with the ability for "zero-click" access to messaging apps and has been used to at least spy on journalists and human rights activists. One of the fears is that it allows ICE officers to use this spyware in a manner that could threaten Americans' freedom of speech and movement.

"Allowing ICE to utilize spyware raises serious questions about whether ICE will respect Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure for people residing in the U.S.," stated the letter. Neither ICE nor Homeland Security have given any internal legal justifications for deploying such technology in immigration enforcement, nor a list of surveillance targets and ICE's domestic spying strategy.

The letter also requested that the Department of Homeland Security furnish detailed information as to their evaluation of how the use of Graphite may violate the current executive order that prohibits the operational use of commercial spyware that may pose counterintelligence or security risks to the federal government.

It should also be noted that according to recent Supreme Court rulings, law enforcement must require a warrant before accessing cell phone content or location data.

---

I would hope they would look skeptically at it and demand warrants before anyone's communications are collected.

---

Who is being emotional here! You really think that they will honor this set of laws? Why? What indication have you gotten from the current Administration that if they believe the ends justifies the means they will demand warrants? People like you have empowered them to do what they want and run an opinion poll. Maybe blow something up and put it on TV, Apache's are cool blowing **** up.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

What do you think the courts and public opinion will rule on the following ?

Lawmakers Demand Answers on ICE's Use of Israeli Spyware (primary source comes from an article in Wired)

Lawmakers want answers from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) use of spyware that can access mobile phones without knowledge or consent. Graphite can gain unauthorized access to mobile phone encrypted applications, location data, messages, and photographs.

Paragon the Israeli company who owns the spy software does claim it has safeguards in place to protect against civil liberty and privacy violations. It comes with the ability for "zero-click" access to messaging apps and has been used to at least spy on journalists and human rights activists. One of the fears is that it allows ICE officers to use this spyware in a manner that could threaten Americans' freedom of speech and movement.

"Allowing ICE to utilize spyware raises serious questions about whether ICE will respect Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure for people residing in the U.S.," stated the letter. Neither ICE nor Homeland Security have given any internal legal justifications for deploying such technology in immigration enforcement, nor a list of surveillance targets and ICE's domestic spying strategy.

The letter also requested that the Department of Homeland Security furnish detailed information as to their evaluation of how the use of Graphite may violate the current executive order that prohibits the operational use of commercial spyware that may pose counterintelligence or security risks to the federal government.

It should also be noted that according to recent Supreme Court rulings, law enforcement must require a warrant before accessing cell phone content or location data.

---

I would hope they would look skeptically at it and demand warrants before anyone's communications are collected.

---

Who is being emotional here! You really think that they will honor this set of laws? Why? What indication have you gotten from the current Administration that if they believe the ends justifies the means they will demand warrants? People like you have empowered them to do what they want and run an opinion poll. Maybe blow something up and put it on TV, Apache's are cool blowing **** up.

---

you are.

I could have elaborated more on my concerns about how this new tech could be used against me, but frankly have not yet had a chance to fully ponder the pros/cons of its use. So my opening position is that I would expect a conservative court to be more respectful of individual liberties than a liberal court, and will give this new issue a good hard look. That's not emotional. That's calm, cool, collected, rational....you know, traditional conservative mindset thinking. You should try it more often!

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

---

LOL.......it's not a MAGA tactic. It's public opinion.

Fact: Voters support blowing drug running speedboats to smithereens.

Courts are not likely to overturn his designation of certain cartels as terror groups, either. So whine on and keep losing elections.....

---

ONCE AGAIN, nobody is questioning the "what" it is the "how". What we are doing breaks International Law. I get that you don't care about that, you are an "ends justifies the means" type, at least when it doesn't effect you. But that does not make you right. This is pure might makes right and we are killing people with no declared war or due process. If you don't get that, I am not sure it is worth discussing further. As, has been my experience, you are ALWAYS right and if not you will throw enough BS at the wall and lecture... I am not interested in any more of your lectures twisted to justify fascist behavior.

And since when do opinion polls determine whether we should do something? Opinion polls favored Student Loan forgiveness, but that was out of bounds and it was Socialist. Or fake polls. My favorite, whatever you don't like is fake.

Actually NEVER voted Democrat in my life. Trump has me there. I am going Democrat after this fiasco. So we will see. By the way, didn't Trump lose in 2020? Oh, yeah. Fake...

---

You understand that the notion of international law is mostly performative nonsense, right?

---

Until you have a dispute or claim...

So no, Maritime Law is real and we do subscribe to it. Or at least we did. You guys have got to stop supporting things based on Bannon podcasts...

Is The United States Under Maritime Law? - Maritime Page

---

I don't think you made the point you think you made.

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

---

LOL.......it's not a MAGA tactic. It's public opinion.

Fact: Voters support blowing drug running speedboats to smithereens.

Courts are not likely to overturn his designation of certain cartels as terror groups, either. So whine on and keep losing elections.....

---

ONCE AGAIN, nobody is questioning the "what" it is the "how". What we are doing breaks International Law. I get that you don't care about that, you are an "ends justifies the means" type, at least when it doesn't effect you. But that does not make you right. This is pure might makes right and we are killing people with no declared war or due process. If you don't get that, I am not sure it is worth discussing further. As, has been my experience, you are ALWAYS right and if not you will throw enough BS at the wall and lecture... I am not interested in any more of your lectures twisted to justify fascist behavior.

And since when do opinion polls determine whether we should do something? Opinion polls favored Student Loan forgiveness, but that was out of bounds and it was Socialist. Or fake polls. My favorite, whatever you don't like is fake.

Actually NEVER voted Democrat in my life. Trump has me there. I am going Democrat after this fiasco. So we will see. By the way, didn't Trump lose in 2020? Oh, yeah. Fake...

---

You understand that the notion of international law is mostly performative nonsense, right?

---

Until you have a dispute or claim...

So no, Maritime Law is real and we do subscribe to it. Or at least we did. You guys have got to stop supporting things based on Bannon podcasts...

Is The United States Under Maritime Law? - Maritime Page

---

I don't think you made the point you think you made.

---

I heard a 2 minute clip of a Bannon podcast one time that got posted on X. He made a good point, although I can't remember what it was. Does that make me a bad Republican?

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

ScottS said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

And what you are missing FL is that POTUS have been doing it for decades, most recently Biden in Yemen. HE DID NOT SEEK CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

Did it bother you then, when a liberal used an EO to make it happen?

---

The difference is that Yemen was firing missiles at US ships. That is an act of war.

We are now using the military for what was law enforcement through EO changing their status. That is a big difference.

---

This is an Act of War moreso than a few sailors with bandaids under Biden. According to provisional data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were an estimated 48,422 deaths from synthetic opioid overdoses, primarily fentanyl, in the United States in 2024. That doesnt take into effect all the cocaine that came into this country. That is what you are fighting for, the importation of drugs. Never pegged you as one of those. Since 1971, we have been fighting the War on Drugs. Apparently this is not something you feel we should participate in, now that we are actually fighting the War on Drugs

---

You guys are ridiculous. we moved drugs from law enforcement to terror. you question what we are doing and you are now good with drug dealers. That is the problem with you maga types, you label people if they question. no one in their right mind is for drug trafficing and you know it.

---

Then why do you support the drug cartels killing tens of thousands of Americans? Take a stand

---

Like ATL, they've argued themselves into a corner, in opposition to a supermajority of public opinion, which does matter in a republic built on democratic processes.

BREAKING: 71% of Americans back Trump's attacks on drug cartel boats: Harvard/Harris pollhttps://t.co/kjbQlvYqvL

— Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) October 25, 2025

---

Basically an 80/20 issue. Libs love to jump onto the 20 side. That will really help them in future elections getting behind the 20 side of the issues.

---

that is a BS choice, either you support blowing up profiled boats or you are in favor of drug smugglers.

Typical MAGA tactic. When the next subject he wants to use the military for comes up it may not be something you agree on. It is the precedent of moving law enforcement to terror.

---

LOL.......it's not a MAGA tactic. It's public opinion.

Fact: Voters support blowing drug running speedboats to smithereens.

Courts are not likely to overturn his designation of certain cartels as terror groups, either. So whine on and keep losing elections.....

---

ONCE AGAIN, nobody is questioning the "what" it is the "how". What we are doing breaks International Law. I get that you don't care about that, you are an "ends justifies the means" type, at least when it doesn't effect you. But that does not make you right. This is pure might makes right and we are killing people with no declared war or due process. If you don't get that, I am not sure it is worth discussing further. As, has been my experience, you are ALWAYS right and if not you will throw enough BS at the wall and lecture... I am not interested in any more of your lectures twisted to justify fascist behavior.

And since when do opinion polls determine whether we should do something? Opinion polls favored Student Loan forgiveness, but that was out of bounds and it was Socialist. Or fake polls. My favorite, whatever you don't like is fake.

Actually NEVER voted Democrat in my life. Trump has me there. I am going Democrat after this fiasco. So we will see. By the way, didn't Trump lose in 2020? Oh, yeah. Fake...

---

You understand that the notion of international law is mostly performative nonsense, right?

---

Until you have a dispute or claim...

So no, Maritime Law is real and we do subscribe to it. Or at least we did. You guys have got to stop supporting things based on Bannon podcasts...

Is The United States Under Maritime Law? - Maritime Page

---

I don't think you made the point you think you made.

---

Well, then its just prayers...

kinda missing the bombing............

- uncle fred

D!

Mitch Blood Green said:

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whiterock said:

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BUDOS said:

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What do you think the courts and public opinion will rule on the following ?

Lawmakers Demand Answers on ICE's Use of Israeli Spyware (primary source comes from an article in Wired)

Lawmakers want answers from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) use of spyware that can access mobile phones without knowledge or consent. Graphite can gain unauthorized access to mobile phone encrypted applications, location data, messages, and photographs.

Paragon the Israeli company who owns the spy software does claim it has safeguards in place to protect against civil liberty and privacy violations. It comes with the ability for "zero-click" access to messaging apps and has been used to at least spy on journalists and human rights activists. One of the fears is that it allows ICE officers to use this spyware in a manner that could threaten Americans' freedom of speech and movement.

"Allowing ICE to utilize spyware raises serious questions about whether ICE will respect Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure for people residing in the U.S.," stated the letter. Neither ICE nor Homeland Security have given any internal legal justifications for deploying such technology in immigration enforcement, nor a list of surveillance targets and ICE's domestic spying strategy.

The letter also requested that the Department of Homeland Security furnish detailed information as to their evaluation of how the use of Graphite may violate the current executive order that prohibits the operational use of commercial spyware that may pose counterintelligence or security risks to the federal government.

It should also be noted that according to recent Supreme Court rulings, law enforcement must require a warrant before accessing cell phone content or location data.

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I would hope they would look skeptically at it and demand warrants before anyone's communications are collected.

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They won't. They will spy and ask for forgiveness. The citizens will make arguments for it as long as they believe it's being used to spy on the citizens we disagree with.

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Ah, projection. In Trumps case, remember he has yet to break the law. See all the cases brought up before the Supreme Court

>>
New US strikes kill 14 alleged drug traffickers, Mexico leads rescue of survivor
Story by Idrees Ali and Phil Stewart

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -A series of U.S. strikes against suspected drug vessels in the eastern Pacific killed 14 alleged drug traffickers and left one survivor, U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said on Tuesday, the latest operation in President Donald Trump's counter-drug campaign.

Hegseth said Mexican search and rescue authorities "assumed responsibility for coordinating the rescue" of the sole survivor but didn't say if that person would stay in their custody or be handed over to the U.S.
In a strike earlier in October which had two survivors, the U.S. military rescued the pair and later repatriated them to Colombia and Ecuador.

Hegseth posted footage of the strikes to social media in which two boats can be seen moving at speed through the water. One is visibly laden with a large amount of parcels or bundles. Both then suddenly explode and are seen aflame.

The third strike appears to have been conducted on a pair of boats that were stationary in the water alongside each other. They appear to be largely empty with at least two people seen moving before an explosion engulfs both boats.

Hegseth said "the four vessels were known by our intelligence apparatus, transiting along known narco-trafficking routes, and carrying narcotics."
<<

The federal agent had a daring pitch for Nicolás Maduro’s chief pilot: All he had to do was surreptitiously divert the Venezuelan president’s plane to a place where U.S. authorities could nab the strongman. pic.twitter.com/h8H1KJIXuS

— The Associated Press (@AP) October 28, 2025

Assassin said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

---

whiterock said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

What do you think the courts and public opinion will rule on the following ?

Lawmakers Demand Answers on ICE's Use of Israeli Spyware (primary source comes from an article in Wired)

Lawmakers want answers from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem on Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) use of spyware that can access mobile phones without knowledge or consent. Graphite can gain unauthorized access to mobile phone encrypted applications, location data, messages, and photographs.

Paragon the Israeli company who owns the spy software does claim it has safeguards in place to protect against civil liberty and privacy violations. It comes with the ability for "zero-click" access to messaging apps and has been used to at least spy on journalists and human rights activists. One of the fears is that it allows ICE officers to use this spyware in a manner that could threaten Americans' freedom of speech and movement.

"Allowing ICE to utilize spyware raises serious questions about whether ICE will respect Fourth Amendment protections against warrantless search and seizure for people residing in the U.S.," stated the letter. Neither ICE nor Homeland Security have given any internal legal justifications for deploying such technology in immigration enforcement, nor a list of surveillance targets and ICE's domestic spying strategy.

The letter also requested that the Department of Homeland Security furnish detailed information as to their evaluation of how the use of Graphite may violate the current executive order that prohibits the operational use of commercial spyware that may pose counterintelligence or security risks to the federal government.

It should also be noted that according to recent Supreme Court rulings, law enforcement must require a warrant before accessing cell phone content or location data.

---

I would hope they would look skeptically at it and demand warrants before anyone's communications are collected.

---

They won't. They will spy and ask for forgiveness. The citizens will make arguments for it as long as they believe it's being used to spy on the citizens we disagree with.

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Ah, projection. In Trumps case, remember he has yet to break the law. See all the cases brought up before the Supreme Court

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I'm hoping we can keep Trump out of this thread and just deal with the potential ramifications of this, including within the context of current events over the last few months, especially ICE and Homeland Security.