Are you comfortable with the drug strikes?

74,835 Views | 1569 Replies | Last: 5 hrs ago by boognish_bear
KaiBear
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FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Underneath nearly all arguments against what POTUS is doing to the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror groups is the faulty premise that non-citizens outside of our jurisdiction engaged in illegal activity may ONLY be dealt with via law enforcement measures. Not. So. If Hizballah is running drugs to raise cash (and they've done that forever) are we obligated to reel in military options and instead treat them as a LE problem? No. We should refuse to treat them as a LE problem, because to do so would require us to bring them into the jurisdiction of our courts to do so at enormous risk and cost to the taxpayer. Far cheaper and wiser to dispatch them abroad with military assets.

Small powers avoid direct confrontation of great powers, and instead choose asymmetrical warfare tactics designed to harass those greater powers, to distract and dissuade and ideally destabilize them if possible. A hostile power like Venezuela allowing drug cartels into its ruling coalition affords it the de facto proxies necessary to wage asymmetrical warfare against us, in ways that (ironically) prompt people otherwise inimical to Venezuela and drug cartels to defend the de facto alliance between Venezuela and the Cartels of the Sun from the full force of USG policy response. (as if Venezuela has some right under international law to allow its state institutions to be a safe haven for drug cartels operating against the USA).

Whether or not we created a law in 1973 or in 2003 after 911 doesn't change the concern. Both are modern laws that delegate authority from one branch to the other. Using these powers so close to the US or even in the US itself begs the question of when is Executive Power too much. Opinion polls and laws on the books are not the end all for policy. There are bad laws on the books, there are legal acts that are immoral or just not good ideas, and there are Executives that are more Authoritarian than others that use those laws.


Realize you mean well.

However this is a straight line situation involving the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans each year.

Not just numbers, but real people.

And these drug smugglers are killing them with their poisons.

Don't insist on getting muddled up with the ' what's ifs ' . Decisive action is usually the best.
FLBear5630
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Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

Assassin said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Your defense of the constitution vs the number of drug deaths in America is interesting to say the least. You vote for more drugs in USA, I vote we save the Americans.

That is a short sighted and very antagonistic political statement. Ok, "Mr. we need to save lives", you believe that addicted people will just not switch to something else to meet their addiction or that the Cartels won't substitute some other additive without medical help.

Are you willing to support the Government sponsored addiction care and medical treatment to go with ending the access of the drugs. Afterall, you are voting for people, the cost shouldn't matter.

We are pushing the limits of the Executive Office, that deserves discussion, it is not an isolated action. If it is, then Congress needs to act on it.

I've been supporting any and all addiction programs for many years, my 35 year chip, last year:



I said congrats last time you showed it. It is commendable and I really am glad you found a place you are good, you are one of my favorite posters.

However, because you were able to beat your demons doesn't mean others can or that it impacts policy. Aside from the Executive Branch using National Emergencies and determining terror groups. If we are willing to go to this extreme shouldn't we also do the other side of the coin? If we are going to go hardcore on the enforcement side, how about hardcore on the medical services side? It is a total package. But, that is close to Socialism, so we will stick to blowing up a boat or two.

I have said multiple times that I support addiction centers, both AA and NA.

I have ZERO problems with drug boats being obliterated. Not sure why you support tens of thousands of Americans dying. It's bizarre

So, if we blow up the boats we will have no fentanyl deaths and it equals the tens of thousands dying.

Read about when the Republic became the Empire. That is my concern.

If we stop drug boats from getting Fentanyl and Cocaine to the US in any manner, that is a good thing for the USA and also Venezuela. The Cartels are hemorrhaging money at that point

"hemorrhaging money" Really? No they are not. The amounts we are talking are rounding errors to their revenue streams. This is an operational issue for them, not a monetary. Read up a little on the Cartel's finances. Drugs are not the only stream and the Gulf only represents 14% of the drug trade. This is not even getting into the other drug locations, human trafficking, gambling, extorsion and interest off investments.

I get it, it is cool watching missiles blow things up. I used to go out the range to watch the Warthogs blow the **** out of anything in their path. I used to love live fire. Pyrotechnics are a blast. I still shoot to this day and love my .22 MAG just because it goes bang and the show at the end of the muzzle. But, it is not doing much.

This is a cover for something else. We do not need an Aircraft Carrier Battle Group to destroy 14 fast boats. The Coast Guard was shooting out engines on these things for a decade. We can deploy several sniper teams and a couple of battalions from the 3rd ID Aviation Brigade in Savannah to help out... No, something else is coming.
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Blatantly false.

Expand with links please (no Legacy Media either or The View either)
"I will not die today, but the same cannot be said for you." - From Assassin's Creed
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Underneath nearly all arguments against what POTUS is doing to the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror groups is the faulty premise that non-citizens outside of our jurisdiction engaged in illegal activity may ONLY be dealt with via law enforcement measures. Not. So. If Hizballah is running drugs to raise cash (and they've done that forever) are we obligated to reel in military options and instead treat them as a LE problem? No. We should refuse to treat them as a LE problem, because to do so would require us to bring them into the jurisdiction of our courts to do so at enormous risk and cost to the taxpayer. Far cheaper and wiser to dispatch them abroad with military assets.

Small powers avoid direct confrontation of great powers, and instead choose asymmetrical warfare tactics designed to harass those greater powers, to distract and dissuade and ideally destabilize them if possible. A hostile power like Venezuela allowing drug cartels into its ruling coalition affords it the de facto proxies necessary to wage asymmetrical warfare against us, in ways that (ironically) prompt people otherwise inimical to Venezuela and drug cartels to defend the de facto alliance between Venezuela and the Cartels of the Sun from the full force of USG policy response. (as if Venezuela has some right under international law to allow its state institutions to be a safe haven for drug cartels operating against the USA).

Whether or not we created a law in 1973 or in 2003 after 911 doesn't change the concern. Both are modern laws that delegate authority from one branch to the other. Using these powers so close to the US or even in the US itself begs the question of when is Executive Power too much. Opinion polls and laws on the books are not the end all for policy. There are bad laws on the books, there are legal acts that are immoral or just not good ideas, and there are Executives that are more Authoritarian than others that use those laws.

"close to the US" is neither a concern nor a factor. You deal with the problem where it is.

"In the US itself" is manifestly not a factor. We have LE and Courts to handle it there. No role for the military inside the country until/unless things get wildly out of hand (i.e. total breakdown of civil order). This issue is about how we deal with the problem OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of US courts. (FYI, international law on piracy is written in context of "hot pursuit" scenarios or universal law claims. US has never exercised a universal law claim (in no small because we do not want to empower lesser powers to invoke it against US interests).

You are simply not addressing the issue at all. There is nothing illegal about what we are doing to the speedboats of the drug cartels who have been designated as terror organizations. If they attempt to run a blockade, they will be destroyed.

Here's the cul-de-sac you're in: are you saying Somali pirates on the high seas cannot be engaged by military force? That we must risk the lives of our troops to board & arrest them, pay to transport them all the way from the Indian Ocean to the jurisdiction of a US civilian court for prosecution, pay for them to have a defense attorney, and then have a trial where the defense can call no witnesses (who live halfway around the world), then pay the cost to incarcerate them for decades or more? Or do we simply sink the pirate ships we encounter and return any survivors to the Somali coast? Either option is legal. One is a helluva lot more expensive (and less effective) than the other.

Your reservations are completely emotional, and your implicit alternative is risky to our troops, costly to our taxpayer, and require pathologically insane decisions (to give drug smugglers a pass on the open seas and let them proceed all the way to US waters for USCG to hopefully interdict & detain them).

All of that is before we get to Article II powers of Presidents to engage in foreign policy = pressuring the Venezuelan regime by cutting off illicit revenue streams to key components of the Venezuelan regime, forcing them to either endure the pain or respond militarily (thereby admitting that the cartel boats are de facto Venezuelan government assets).

whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Blatantly false.

Expand with links please (no Legacy Media either or The View either)

he can't, because three is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror organizations. In fact, there is law specifically allowing him/her to do such.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Underneath nearly all arguments against what POTUS is doing to the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror groups is the faulty premise that non-citizens outside of our jurisdiction engaged in illegal activity may ONLY be dealt with via law enforcement measures. Not. So. If Hizballah is running drugs to raise cash (and they've done that forever) are we obligated to reel in military options and instead treat them as a LE problem? No. We should refuse to treat them as a LE problem, because to do so would require us to bring them into the jurisdiction of our courts to do so at enormous risk and cost to the taxpayer. Far cheaper and wiser to dispatch them abroad with military assets.

Small powers avoid direct confrontation of great powers, and instead choose asymmetrical warfare tactics designed to harass those greater powers, to distract and dissuade and ideally destabilize them if possible. A hostile power like Venezuela allowing drug cartels into its ruling coalition affords it the de facto proxies necessary to wage asymmetrical warfare against us, in ways that (ironically) prompt people otherwise inimical to Venezuela and drug cartels to defend the de facto alliance between Venezuela and the Cartels of the Sun from the full force of USG policy response. (as if Venezuela has some right under international law to allow its state institutions to be a safe haven for drug cartels operating against the USA).

Whether or not we created a law in 1973 or in 2003 after 911 doesn't change the concern. Both are modern laws that delegate authority from one branch to the other. Using these powers so close to the US or even in the US itself begs the question of when is Executive Power too much. Opinion polls and laws on the books are not the end all for policy. There are bad laws on the books, there are legal acts that are immoral or just not good ideas, and there are Executives that are more Authoritarian than others that use those laws.

"close to the US" is neither a concern nor a factor. You deal with the problem where it is.

"In the US itself" is manifestly not a factor. We have LE and Courts to handle it there. No role for the military inside the country until/unless things get wildly out of hand (i.e. total breakdown of civil order). This issue is about how we deal with the problem OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of US courts. (FYI, international law on piracy is written in context of "hot pursuit" scenarios or universal law claims. US has never exercised a universal law claim (in no small because we do not want to empower lesser powers to invoke it against US interests).

You are simply not addressing the issue at all. There is nothing illegal about what we are doing to the speedboats of the drug cartels who have been designated as terror organizations. If they attempt to run a blockade, they will be destroyed.

The concern is absolutely valid. Trump has just as much authority to order such strikes inside the country as to order them in the Caribbean. He's already declaring bogus emergencies (i.e. "breakdowns of civil order") as a way of involving the military.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Blatantly false.

Expand with links please (no Legacy Media either or The View either)

he can't, because three is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror organizations. In fact, there is law specifically allowing him/her to do such.

This is a lie, and you know that it's a lie.
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Underneath nearly all arguments against what POTUS is doing to the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror groups is the faulty premise that non-citizens outside of our jurisdiction engaged in illegal activity may ONLY be dealt with via law enforcement measures. Not. So. If Hizballah is running drugs to raise cash (and they've done that forever) are we obligated to reel in military options and instead treat them as a LE problem? No. We should refuse to treat them as a LE problem, because to do so would require us to bring them into the jurisdiction of our courts to do so at enormous risk and cost to the taxpayer. Far cheaper and wiser to dispatch them abroad with military assets.

Small powers avoid direct confrontation of great powers, and instead choose asymmetrical warfare tactics designed to harass those greater powers, to distract and dissuade and ideally destabilize them if possible. A hostile power like Venezuela allowing drug cartels into its ruling coalition affords it the de facto proxies necessary to wage asymmetrical warfare against us, in ways that (ironically) prompt people otherwise inimical to Venezuela and drug cartels to defend the de facto alliance between Venezuela and the Cartels of the Sun from the full force of USG policy response. (as if Venezuela has some right under international law to allow its state institutions to be a safe haven for drug cartels operating against the USA).

Whether or not we created a law in 1973 or in 2003 after 911 doesn't change the concern. Both are modern laws that delegate authority from one branch to the other. Using these powers so close to the US or even in the US itself begs the question of when is Executive Power too much. Opinion polls and laws on the books are not the end all for policy. There are bad laws on the books, there are legal acts that are immoral or just not good ideas, and there are Executives that are more Authoritarian than others that use those laws.

"close to the US" is neither a concern nor a factor. You deal with the problem where it is.

"In the US itself" is manifestly not a factor. We have LE and Courts to handle it there. No role for the military inside the country until/unless things get wildly out of hand (i.e. total breakdown of civil order). This issue is about how we deal with the problem OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of US courts. (FYI, international law on piracy is written in context of "hot pursuit" scenarios or universal law claims. US has never exercised a universal law claim (in no small because we do not want to empower lesser powers to invoke it against US interests).

You are simply not addressing the issue at all. There is nothing illegal about what we are doing to the speedboats of the drug cartels who have been designated as terror organizations. If they attempt to run a blockade, they will be destroyed.

Here's the cul-de-sac you're in: are you saying Somali pirates on the high seas cannot be engaged by military force? That we must risk the lives of our troops to board & arrest them, pay to transport them all the way from the Indian Ocean to the jurisdiction of a US civilian court for prosecution, pay for them to have a defense attorney, and then have a trial where the defense can call no witnesses (who live halfway around the world), then pay the cost to incarcerate them for decades or more? Or do we simply sink the pirate ships we encounter and return any survivors to the Somali coast? Either option is legal. One is a helluva lot more expensive (and less effective) than the other.

Your reservations are completely emotional, and your implicit alternative is risky to our troops, costly to our taxpayer, and require pathologically insane decisions (to give drug smugglers a pass on the open seas and let them proceed all the way to US waters for USCG to hopefully interdict & detain them).

All of that is before we get to Article II powers of Presidents to engage in foreign policy = pressuring the Venezuelan regime by cutting off illicit revenue streams to key components of the Venezuelan regime, forcing them to either endure the pain or respond militarily (thereby admitting that the cartel boats are de facto Venezuelan government assets).



Once again, you are mixing apples and oranges. Somali pirates ATTACK ships on the open seas. What boat has the Fast Boats we blew up ATTACKED?????

Keep doing the gymnastics. Trump is taking areas he wants to fix and declaring them a National Emergency so he can do what he wants. That is a problem. Now, maybe not. In 18 months when the Dems take the House and Senate? Yes it is. In 3 years when the Dems take the Presidency, YOU ARE GOING TO WISH WE RE-EMPHASIZED EXECUTIVE LIMITS.

Geez, people think more than the limit of what is right in front of you. There are bigger issues here and there is more than this 3 year period.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Underneath nearly all arguments against what POTUS is doing to the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror groups is the faulty premise that non-citizens outside of our jurisdiction engaged in illegal activity may ONLY be dealt with via law enforcement measures. Not. So. If Hizballah is running drugs to raise cash (and they've done that forever) are we obligated to reel in military options and instead treat them as a LE problem? No. We should refuse to treat them as a LE problem, because to do so would require us to bring them into the jurisdiction of our courts to do so at enormous risk and cost to the taxpayer. Far cheaper and wiser to dispatch them abroad with military assets.

Small powers avoid direct confrontation of great powers, and instead choose asymmetrical warfare tactics designed to harass those greater powers, to distract and dissuade and ideally destabilize them if possible. A hostile power like Venezuela allowing drug cartels into its ruling coalition affords it the de facto proxies necessary to wage asymmetrical warfare against us, in ways that (ironically) prompt people otherwise inimical to Venezuela and drug cartels to defend the de facto alliance between Venezuela and the Cartels of the Sun from the full force of USG policy response. (as if Venezuela has some right under international law to allow its state institutions to be a safe haven for drug cartels operating against the USA).

Whether or not we created a law in 1973 or in 2003 after 911 doesn't change the concern. Both are modern laws that delegate authority from one branch to the other. Using these powers so close to the US or even in the US itself begs the question of when is Executive Power too much. Opinion polls and laws on the books are not the end all for policy. There are bad laws on the books, there are legal acts that are immoral or just not good ideas, and there are Executives that are more Authoritarian than others that use those laws.

"close to the US" is neither a concern nor a factor. You deal with the problem where it is.

"In the US itself" is manifestly not a factor. We have LE and Courts to handle it there. No role for the military inside the country until/unless things get wildly out of hand (i.e. total breakdown of civil order). This issue is about how we deal with the problem OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of US courts. (FYI, international law on piracy is written in context of "hot pursuit" scenarios or universal law claims. US has never exercised a universal law claim (in no small because we do not want to empower lesser powers to invoke it against US interests).

You are simply not addressing the issue at all. There is nothing illegal about what we are doing to the speedboats of the drug cartels who have been designated as terror organizations. If they attempt to run a blockade, they will be destroyed.

The concern is absolutely valid. Trump has just as much authority to order such strikes inside the country as to order them in the Caribbean. He's already declaring bogus emergencies (i.e. "breakdowns of civil order") as a way of involving the military.

No, he does not have the same authority to order strikes inside the USA.

You may think the emergency he declared is bogus, and you can litigate that in court. You will likely lose. And continue to call him a fascist. because that's what lefties do....call everything they don't like something deplorable
FLBear5630
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Underneath nearly all arguments against what POTUS is doing to the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror groups is the faulty premise that non-citizens outside of our jurisdiction engaged in illegal activity may ONLY be dealt with via law enforcement measures. Not. So. If Hizballah is running drugs to raise cash (and they've done that forever) are we obligated to reel in military options and instead treat them as a LE problem? No. We should refuse to treat them as a LE problem, because to do so would require us to bring them into the jurisdiction of our courts to do so at enormous risk and cost to the taxpayer. Far cheaper and wiser to dispatch them abroad with military assets.

Small powers avoid direct confrontation of great powers, and instead choose asymmetrical warfare tactics designed to harass those greater powers, to distract and dissuade and ideally destabilize them if possible. A hostile power like Venezuela allowing drug cartels into its ruling coalition affords it the de facto proxies necessary to wage asymmetrical warfare against us, in ways that (ironically) prompt people otherwise inimical to Venezuela and drug cartels to defend the de facto alliance between Venezuela and the Cartels of the Sun from the full force of USG policy response. (as if Venezuela has some right under international law to allow its state institutions to be a safe haven for drug cartels operating against the USA).

Whether or not we created a law in 1973 or in 2003 after 911 doesn't change the concern. Both are modern laws that delegate authority from one branch to the other. Using these powers so close to the US or even in the US itself begs the question of when is Executive Power too much. Opinion polls and laws on the books are not the end all for policy. There are bad laws on the books, there are legal acts that are immoral or just not good ideas, and there are Executives that are more Authoritarian than others that use those laws.

"close to the US" is neither a concern nor a factor. You deal with the problem where it is.

"In the US itself" is manifestly not a factor. We have LE and Courts to handle it there. No role for the military inside the country until/unless things get wildly out of hand (i.e. total breakdown of civil order). This issue is about how we deal with the problem OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of US courts. (FYI, international law on piracy is written in context of "hot pursuit" scenarios or universal law claims. US has never exercised a universal law claim (in no small because we do not want to empower lesser powers to invoke it against US interests).

You are simply not addressing the issue at all. There is nothing illegal about what we are doing to the speedboats of the drug cartels who have been designated as terror organizations. If they attempt to run a blockade, they will be destroyed.

The concern is absolutely valid. Trump has just as much authority to order such strikes inside the country as to order them in the Caribbean. He's already declaring bogus emergencies (i.e. "breakdowns of civil order") as a way of involving the military.

No, he does not have the same authority to order strikes inside the USA.

You may think the emergency he declared is bogus, and you can litigate that in court. You will likely lose. And continue to call him a fascist. because that's what lefties do....call everything they don't like something deplorable

And what you do is what Authoritarian's do when they like what the Government is doing, look the other way or justify through all sorts of gymnastics. It is not based on any underlying principle of governance, it is they like it so it is good. Everything else bad.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Underneath nearly all arguments against what POTUS is doing to the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror groups is the faulty premise that non-citizens outside of our jurisdiction engaged in illegal activity may ONLY be dealt with via law enforcement measures. Not. So. If Hizballah is running drugs to raise cash (and they've done that forever) are we obligated to reel in military options and instead treat them as a LE problem? No. We should refuse to treat them as a LE problem, because to do so would require us to bring them into the jurisdiction of our courts to do so at enormous risk and cost to the taxpayer. Far cheaper and wiser to dispatch them abroad with military assets.

Small powers avoid direct confrontation of great powers, and instead choose asymmetrical warfare tactics designed to harass those greater powers, to distract and dissuade and ideally destabilize them if possible. A hostile power like Venezuela allowing drug cartels into its ruling coalition affords it the de facto proxies necessary to wage asymmetrical warfare against us, in ways that (ironically) prompt people otherwise inimical to Venezuela and drug cartels to defend the de facto alliance between Venezuela and the Cartels of the Sun from the full force of USG policy response. (as if Venezuela has some right under international law to allow its state institutions to be a safe haven for drug cartels operating against the USA).

Whether or not we created a law in 1973 or in 2003 after 911 doesn't change the concern. Both are modern laws that delegate authority from one branch to the other. Using these powers so close to the US or even in the US itself begs the question of when is Executive Power too much. Opinion polls and laws on the books are not the end all for policy. There are bad laws on the books, there are legal acts that are immoral or just not good ideas, and there are Executives that are more Authoritarian than others that use those laws.

"close to the US" is neither a concern nor a factor. You deal with the problem where it is.

"In the US itself" is manifestly not a factor. We have LE and Courts to handle it there. No role for the military inside the country until/unless things get wildly out of hand (i.e. total breakdown of civil order). This issue is about how we deal with the problem OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of US courts. (FYI, international law on piracy is written in context of "hot pursuit" scenarios or universal law claims. US has never exercised a universal law claim (in no small because we do not want to empower lesser powers to invoke it against US interests).

You are simply not addressing the issue at all. There is nothing illegal about what we are doing to the speedboats of the drug cartels who have been designated as terror organizations. If they attempt to run a blockade, they will be destroyed.

Here's the cul-de-sac you're in: are you saying Somali pirates on the high seas cannot be engaged by military force? That we must risk the lives of our troops to board & arrest them, pay to transport them all the way from the Indian Ocean to the jurisdiction of a US civilian court for prosecution, pay for them to have a defense attorney, and then have a trial where the defense can call no witnesses (who live halfway around the world), then pay the cost to incarcerate them for decades or more? Or do we simply sink the pirate ships we encounter and return any survivors to the Somali coast? Either option is legal. One is a helluva lot more expensive (and less effective) than the other.

Your reservations are completely emotional, and your implicit alternative is risky to our troops, costly to our taxpayer, and require pathologically insane decisions (to give drug smugglers a pass on the open seas and let them proceed all the way to US waters for USCG to hopefully interdict & detain them).

All of that is before we get to Article II powers of Presidents to engage in foreign policy = pressuring the Venezuelan regime by cutting off illicit revenue streams to key components of the Venezuelan regime, forcing them to either endure the pain or respond militarily (thereby admitting that the cartel boats are de facto Venezuelan government assets).



Once again, you are mixing apples and oranges. Somali pirates ATTACK ships on the open seas. What boat has the Fast Boats we blew up ATTACKED?????
False dilemma. We are not legally required to wait until pirates attack to open fire on them. We can do so if they approach too close to our ships. We are also not required to apprehend them at any time to send them home for trial. We are allowed to sink their ships and bomb their harbors if necessary to stop the piracy. The "....shores of Tripoli" solution is as old as the country. No declaration of war. Just sound policy. Today, we have statutes empowering the Executive to act in such ways. And Trump has done so, prudently and well within the boundaries of law.

Mostly, though, you miss the point. Courts are only effective to the limits of their jurisdiction i.e. US territory. Beyond they, they very quickly get wildly impractical as a policy tool. And there is not much constitutional room to fix that because, and this is instructive...........Foreign Policy is an enumerated responsibility of the executive. We have so many checks and balances on executive use of the military, from the constitution to several statutes to the power of the purse to court action and....ultimately....the ballot box.

Keep doing the gymnastics. Trump is taking areas he wants to fix and declaring them a National Emergency so he can do what he wants. That is a problem. Now, maybe not. In 18 months when the Dems take the House and Senate? Yes it is. In 3 years when the Dems take the Presidency, YOU ARE GOING TO WISH WE RE-EMPHASIZED EXECUTIVE LIMITS.
Moderate do-nothingism on parade. You seem to be saying that we should not solve problems for fear Democrats will also solve problems.

Geez, people think more than the limit of what is right in front of you. There are bigger issues here and there is more than this 3 year period.
(....sending virtual tissues for you to dab the tears from your cheeks.....)

Obama smoked American citizens in their living rooms abroad for being involved with terror groups. The usual voices howled about killing people without having convicted them. Not me. One of the few things I agreed with him on. You cannot run a country requiring congressional consent or court order for each and every pull of a trigger on a battlefield.

The only way what Trump is doing is illegal is if you can persuade SCOTUS to overrule his designation of the TDA and Cartels of The Sun as a terror groups. Given the plain language of the statute, good luck with that.

You're just whining because you hate Trump so much you can't allow yourself to like anything he does, which of course requires you to ignore all constitutional, statutory, judicial, and electoral empowerment (and restraints) on his actions.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Blatantly false.

Expand with links please (no Legacy Media either or The View either)

he can't, because three is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror organizations. In fact, there is law specifically allowing him/her to do such.

This is a lie, and you know that it's a lie.

you keep saying that, but you have not posted a single sentence of statute outlawing what he has done. (because there is none).

He, on the other hand, has cited statutory authority. It will be tested in court. It will likely survive.
Will he still be a fascist then?
GrowlTowel
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FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Underneath nearly all arguments against what POTUS is doing to the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror groups is the faulty premise that non-citizens outside of our jurisdiction engaged in illegal activity may ONLY be dealt with via law enforcement measures. Not. So. If Hizballah is running drugs to raise cash (and they've done that forever) are we obligated to reel in military options and instead treat them as a LE problem? No. We should refuse to treat them as a LE problem, because to do so would require us to bring them into the jurisdiction of our courts to do so at enormous risk and cost to the taxpayer. Far cheaper and wiser to dispatch them abroad with military assets.

Small powers avoid direct confrontation of great powers, and instead choose asymmetrical warfare tactics designed to harass those greater powers, to distract and dissuade and ideally destabilize them if possible. A hostile power like Venezuela allowing drug cartels into its ruling coalition affords it the de facto proxies necessary to wage asymmetrical warfare against us, in ways that (ironically) prompt people otherwise inimical to Venezuela and drug cartels to defend the de facto alliance between Venezuela and the Cartels of the Sun from the full force of USG policy response. (as if Venezuela has some right under international law to allow its state institutions to be a safe haven for drug cartels operating against the USA).

Whether or not we created a law in 1973 or in 2003 after 911 doesn't change the concern. Both are modern laws that delegate authority from one branch to the other. Using these powers so close to the US or even in the US itself begs the question of when is Executive Power too much. Opinion polls and laws on the books are not the end all for policy. There are bad laws on the books, there are legal acts that are immoral or just not good ideas, and there are Executives that are more Authoritarian than others that use those laws.

"close to the US" is neither a concern nor a factor. You deal with the problem where it is.

"In the US itself" is manifestly not a factor. We have LE and Courts to handle it there. No role for the military inside the country until/unless things get wildly out of hand (i.e. total breakdown of civil order). This issue is about how we deal with the problem OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of US courts. (FYI, international law on piracy is written in context of "hot pursuit" scenarios or universal law claims. US has never exercised a universal law claim (in no small because we do not want to empower lesser powers to invoke it against US interests).

You are simply not addressing the issue at all. There is nothing illegal about what we are doing to the speedboats of the drug cartels who have been designated as terror organizations. If they attempt to run a blockade, they will be destroyed.

Here's the cul-de-sac you're in: are you saying Somali pirates on the high seas cannot be engaged by military force? That we must risk the lives of our troops to board & arrest them, pay to transport them all the way from the Indian Ocean to the jurisdiction of a US civilian court for prosecution, pay for them to have a defense attorney, and then have a trial where the defense can call no witnesses (who live halfway around the world), then pay the cost to incarcerate them for decades or more? Or do we simply sink the pirate ships we encounter and return any survivors to the Somali coast? Either option is legal. One is a helluva lot more expensive (and less effective) than the other.

Your reservations are completely emotional, and your implicit alternative is risky to our troops, costly to our taxpayer, and require pathologically insane decisions (to give drug smugglers a pass on the open seas and let them proceed all the way to US waters for USCG to hopefully interdict & detain them).

All of that is before we get to Article II powers of Presidents to engage in foreign policy = pressuring the Venezuelan regime by cutting off illicit revenue streams to key components of the Venezuelan regime, forcing them to either endure the pain or respond militarily (thereby admitting that the cartel boats are de facto Venezuelan government assets).



Once again, you are mixing apples and oranges. Somali pirates ATTACK ships on the open seas. What boat has the Fast Boats we blew up ATTACKED?????

Keep doing the gymnastics. Trump is taking areas he wants to fix and declaring them a National Emergency so he can do what he wants. That is a problem. Now, maybe not. In 18 months when the Dems take the House and Senate? Yes it is. In 3 years when the Dems take the Presidency, YOU ARE GOING TO WISH WE RE-EMPHASIZED EXECUTIVE LIMITS.

Geez, people think more than the limit of what is right in front of you. There are bigger issues here and there is more than this 3 year period.


The House is probably going to flip but you are way off if you think the Senate is going to flip.

Democrats need to gain a net of four seats to win a majority in the chamber in 2026 and they are defending two seats that Trump won - Georgia and Michigan - so call that five seats. Republicans are only defending one seat that Giggles won - Maine.

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Assassin
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Blatantly false.

Expand with links please (no Legacy Media either or The View either)

he can't, because three is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror organizations. In fact, there is law specifically allowing him/her to do such.

This is a lie, and you know that it's a lie.

Your proof?
"I will not die today, but the same cannot be said for you." - From Assassin's Creed
william
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... and sprechen of the streiken??

- uncle fred

D!

Hey Pete - Get back to work!!!

Suelten los perros, amigos!!!

{ sipping coffee }

Go Bears!!
arbyscoin - the only crypto you can eat....
william
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those ar....e, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ....................ons are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Blatantly false.

Expand with links please (no Legacy Media either or The View either)

he can't, because three is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror organizations. In fact, there is law specifically allowing him/her to do such.

This is a lie, and you know that it's a lie.

argument by assertion..........

- tia juanita*

* in a sing songy voice

D!

{ sipping cafe }

{ eating donut }

Go Bears!!
arbyscoin - the only crypto you can eat....
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Blatantly false.

Expand with links please (no Legacy Media either or The View either)

he can't, because three is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror organizations. In fact, there is law specifically allowing him/her to do such.

This is a lie, and you know that it's a lie.

you keep saying that, but you have not posted a single sentence of statute outlawing what he has done.
I have indeed.

You have not posted any statute authorizing what he has done based on a terrorist designation by the secretary of state (because there is none).
Aliceinbubbleland
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whiterock said:

he can't, because three is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror organizations. In fact, there is law specifically allowing him/her to do such.

I guess the part
Quote:

drug cartels

is the question bothering some of us. Are we sinking everyone just claiming they are cartels? How do we know?

Anyone but the aggies please
Assassin
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We have info from our assets on the ground.
"I will not die today, but the same cannot be said for you." - From Assassin's Creed
Porteroso
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Assassin said:

We have info from our assets on the ground.

Hopefully they are at least near the water.
Oldbear83
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Sam and Eeyore working overtime to support the cartels.

Hmmmm
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
cowboycwr
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Oldbear83 said:

Sam and Eeyore working overtime to support the cartels.

Hmmmm


They still believe the poor guys fishing story. Even for the boat captured by the coast guard that was literally only inches above the water, with a hatch to the cabin, and was clearly special built to avoid radar, detection or even made to be hard to be seen by people.
Aliceinbubbleland
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I'm not aware of anyone against stopping drug importation but if you are honest you know this administration always goes beyond what is necessary. That is why I question if you know for sure ALL of these boats are drug operations and not legit fishing boats.

Anyone but the aggies please
Assassin
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Porteroso said:

Assassin said:

We have info from our assets on the ground.

Hopefully they are at least near the water.

CIA Assets are everywhere
"I will not die today, but the same cannot be said for you." - From Assassin's Creed
boognish_bear
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Robert Wilson
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Oldbear83 said:

Sam and Eeyore working overtime to support the cartels.

Hmmmm


I'm almost impressed by their willingness to just continue taking a beating from whiterock. Any sane and reasonable person would've thrown in the towel long ago. But maybe there's something to be said for blind persistence?

"that's my story and I'm sticking to it" kind of thing…
Sam Lowry
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Robert Wilson said:

Oldbear83 said:

Sam and Eeyore working overtime to support the cartels.

Hmmmm


I'm almost impressed by their willingness to just continue taking a beating from whiterock. Any sane and reasonable person would've thrown in the towel long ago. But maybe there's something to be said for blind persistence?

"that's my story and I'm sticking to it" kind of thing…

Whiterock is well aware that he lost this argument, but he appreciates your support.
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

Robert Wilson said:

Oldbear83 said:

Sam and Eeyore working overtime to support the cartels.

Hmmmm


I'm almost impressed by their willingness to just continue taking a beating from whiterock. Any sane and reasonable person would've thrown in the towel long ago. But maybe there's something to be said for blind persistence?

"that's my story and I'm sticking to it" kind of thing…

Whiterock is well aware that he lost this argument, but he appreciates your support.

Dude, you keep getting shown bar arsed, Whiterock destroys you each time
"I will not die today, but the same cannot be said for you." - From Assassin's Creed
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

KaiBear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ScottS said:

Yes, President Trump Can Blow Up Drug Boats - Chronicles

The question is whether drugs, which has been a law enforcement issue, is the same as terrorism.


No one on here, from what I can see, thinks it is bad to destroy drugs entering the US. No one on here seems to think that there are not drugs on those boats. Those are not the concerns.

The concern is how we are determining a "terrorist organization", the same as how we are determining "National Emergencies". Both of those, which are avenues this Administration are using broadly, give the Executive Branch much more power and leeway than the Constitution intends.

On a personal note, I just find it amusing watching people on here who were strict Constitutionalist 18 months ago defending Trump's taking of power and then applying all sorts of mental gymnastics and economic lessons to justify it. When the truth is that if the person in the President's seat advances what you (any of us) want, we will turn the other way. If it is something we don't want, like Biden's agenda, scream that the Constitution never intended for that... At least some on here say they are willing to look the other way to stop Fentanyl, I respect that more than the gymnastics because it is honest.

Me, I agree with what he is doing but worry about "how" and if that can be used in the future in ways I don't support or on me, for whatever reason.

Nothing amusing with the huge number of Americans dying every year from drug overdoses.

Past rules of engagement clearly have not worked.

Very glad Trump is taking a new approach.

If I had my way, a 2nd conviction for drug smuggling into the US would receive the death penalty.

An execution which would be 'fast tracked' within 6 months.

Results would be immediate


And how is my finding it amusing watching people change do the exact same thing they yelled at the liberals for doing on climate undo my second and last paragraph's? They are just as bad as the Biden crowd, just different set of issues their willing to let go.

How far do you go for ends justifies the means? Obviously, for Fentanyl you are good with what is going on. Get it a trigger for you. But, there are ALOT of other people that don't have Fentanyl or illegal drug issues in their life. Some believe prescription drug abuse is more of a problem. Some believe the Climate is more of a problem. Some believe aggressive driving and traffic deaths are more of an issue. I can go on, depends on what happened to each of us individually. How fare are you willing to go? Automated camera traffic ticketing? Raids on Doctor's offices? Allowing Elon to take over the sky? All can be done by the President with a swipe of the pen as a National Emergency.

Change the law. The system is in place for a reason, we have *******ized it and the ramifications are brutal. As you know, what we agree on with the President can be turned to something else, very easily, both left and right.

You closed with a false dilemma. There is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink drug cartel watercraft engaged in hostile acts against the USA. In fact, he has cited explicit statutory authority to do so.

Blatantly false.

Expand with links please (no Legacy Media either or The View either)

he can't, because three is no law preventing a POTUS from ordering the US Navy in international waters to sink the watercraft of drug cartels designated as terror organizations. In fact, there is law specifically allowing him/her to do such.

This is a lie, and you know that it's a lie.

you keep saying that, but you have not posted a single sentence of statute outlawing what he has done.

I have indeed.

You have not posted any statute authorizing what he has done based on a terrorist designation by the secretary of state (because there is none).

I've posted them and discussed them at length. Not all, though. There are numerous statutory authorities for emergency, terror, and military declarations. You, on the other hand, have cited things completely irrelevant to the situation, like UCMJ.

There is no law which says a POTUS may not use military strikes on drug cartels designated as terror organizations. Quite the opposite. Those designations are a power granted by Congress to the Executive via statute. Your only viable course of action here is to attack the declaration itself, to argue that Trump's use of the designation is over-reach. Instead, you avoid the one argument you could make which might have a chance of success and choose instead to make grandiloquent declarations that the strikes are flatly at odds with (as yet uncited) statutes. I hope you do better legal work in your day job....
whiterock
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Assassin said:

Porteroso said:

Assassin said:

We have info from our assets on the ground.

Hopefully they are at least near the water.

CIA Assets are everywhere

humint not likely central to shooting up cartel boats. Imagery (drone cameras) likely driving it, supplemented with signint (capturing hand-held radio and cell-phone comms).

We almost certainly know the bases from which they shipments originate. So we monitor them. We likely collect comms on preps for upcoming shipments. So it's easy to coordinate the two and spot a docked boat being loaded with bales. We wait until it gets out to sea far enough that there is no risk of collateral damage to civilian assets on shore or in harbor or any in any nearby sea lanes.....and we smoke it.

Very simple (given the technology we have today).
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Assassin said:

Porteroso said:

Assassin said:

We have info from our assets on the ground.

Hopefully they are at least near the water.

CIA Assets are everywhere

humint not likely central to shooting up cartel boats. Imagery (drone cameras) likely driving it, supplemented with signint (capturing hand-held radio and cell-phone comms).

We almost certainly know the bases from which they shipments originate. So we monitor them. We likely collect comms on preps for upcoming shipments. So it's easy to coordinate the two and spot a docked boat being loaded with bales. We wait until it gets out to sea far enough that there is no risk of collateral damage to civilian assets on shore or in harbor or any in any nearby sea lanes.....and we smoke it.

Very simple (given the technology we have today).

DEA might have assets there too. We know they were next door in Columbia.
"I will not die today, but the same cannot be said for you." - From Assassin's Creed
Assassin
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Another strike to save many, many lives in the USA

"I will not die today, but the same cannot be said for you." - From Assassin's Creed
Sam Lowry
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Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

Robert Wilson said:

Oldbear83 said:

Sam and Eeyore working overtime to support the cartels.

Hmmmm


I'm almost impressed by their willingness to just continue taking a beating from whiterock. Any sane and reasonable person would've thrown in the towel long ago. But maybe there's something to be said for blind persistence?

"that's my story and I'm sticking to it" kind of thing…

Whiterock is well aware that he lost this argument, but he appreciates your support.

Dude, you keep getting shown bar arsed, Whiterock destroys you each time
Whiterock is playing to the rubes. He's FOS and he knows it.
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

Assassin said:

Sam Lowry said:

Robert Wilson said:

Oldbear83 said:

Sam and Eeyore working overtime to support the cartels.

Hmmmm


I'm almost impressed by their willingness to just continue taking a beating from whiterock. Any sane and reasonable person would've thrown in the towel long ago. But maybe there's something to be said for blind persistence?

"that's my story and I'm sticking to it" kind of thing…

Whiterock is well aware that he lost this argument, but he appreciates your support.

Dude, you keep getting shown bar arsed, Whiterock destroys you each time

Whiterock is playing to the rubes. He's FOS and he knows it.

I don't think you're a rube, Sam. You're more of a contrarian.
"I will not die today, but the same cannot be said for you." - From Assassin's Creed
ScottS
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Bombs away = avoiding crooked judges.
 
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