Oldbear83 said:

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Also, poor Joseph. Jesus was (and is) the Son of God, but Joseph was his father figure while Jesus grew up, and the head of household.

All that praise and attention for Mary, yet her husband Joseph gets shoved into a corner.

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Jesus has no DNA from Joseph. Yet he was also his Father of course. We are all adopted or hope to be.

Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Sam: " Mary Mother of God"

Odd signature you have there ...

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Not mine.

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You put it there.

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No.

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Of course you did, you wrote your own post, neh?

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You're quoting the wrong person. The post was Freedombear's.

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My apologies, you are correct.

You two do use many of the same arguments, but yes this was from Freedombear.

Still an odd way to sign a post.

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No clue what yall are arguing about?

I signed a post? Sam signed a post?

Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

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You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

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So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

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Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

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You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

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Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

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LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

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Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

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Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

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Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

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More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

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Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

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Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

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"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

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Yup, your sig at the end of your post. I mistook it for Sam, but it's definitely your, Fre3dombear.

And it certainly IS an odd signature.

Mothra said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?

If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?

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It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.

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Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?

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Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?

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The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.

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Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?

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It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.

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So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.

Thank you. Bookmark.

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If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.

You're welcome.

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But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.

Thank you again.

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My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.

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LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.

^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?

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I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.

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No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.

In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.

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How do you know the difference between what you discern for yourself and what you've been taught? I would suggest that you don't.

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Why are you running away from the point? You said that I "literally" asked you what you would did if you "were not even aware of the magisterium" which was demonstrably false.

So did you lie, or are you just bad at keeping track of what's being said? Do you at least acknowledge that you are wrong here?

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"Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the 'ordinary magisterium' taught? What is your answer?"

Again, I was responding to the hypothetical above. I don't know what else you're looking for.

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So, by presenting the evidence that you were wrong, is this your admission?

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20 years on this board and I've never seen Sam admit he was wrong (despite the fact he's wrong the majority of the time). Too arrogant to ever admit he's been bested.

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20 years of this BS?

Wow. Now that's discouraging.

Ask a hypothetical question, get a hypothetical answer. Not a difficult concept.

Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

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Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

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How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

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How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

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'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

---

How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

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'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

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Elizabeth, who scripture tells us was a godly woman, greeted Mary as "the Mother of our Lord."

DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

---

How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

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'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

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Elizabeth, who scripture tells us was a godly woman, greeted Mary as "the Mother of our Lord."

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Pretty sure the Capitalized M was not in the verbal exchange, but added later by human choice.

DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

---

How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

---

'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

---

Elizabeth, who scripture tells us was a godly woman, greeted Mary as "the Mother of our Lord."

---

Luke 1:39-45
Legacy Standard Bible

39 Now at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And it happened that when Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? 44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed [c]that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord."

Proper Capitalization, there.

Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

---

How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

---

'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

---

Elizabeth, who scripture tells us was a godly woman, greeted Mary as "the Mother of our Lord."

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Pretty sure the Capitalized M was not in the verbal exchange, but added later by human choice.

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Yeah, I am sure a likely illiterate peasant woman who was clearly using the phrasing as an honorific really meant it with a lower-case "m" in the moment. That's what we're going to hang our hat on?

So, please, tell me why it was so significant to Elizabeth that Mary, in her capacity as mother of the Lord, was visiting her but she meant it all with a lower-case "m"?

DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

---

How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

---

'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

---

Elizabeth, who scripture tells us was a godly woman, greeted Mary as "the Mother of our Lord."

---

Pretty sure the Capitalized M was not in the verbal exchange, but added later by human choice.

---

Yeah, I am sure a likely illiterate peasant woman who was clearly using the phrasing as an honorific really meant it with a lower-case "m" in the moment. That's what we're going to hang our hat on?

So, please, tell me why it was so significant to Elizabeth that Mary, in her capacity as mother of the Lord, was visiting her but she meant it all with a lower-case "m"?

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4th and inches expressed it well. Mary certainly pleased God with her humble and obedient spirit. Elizabeth recognized that and Mary's role in bringing Jesus physically into this world.

That in no way makes Mary sinless or worthy of worship, her own shrines in Churches, and so on. That's where some have gone overboard.

Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

---

How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

---

'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

---

Elizabeth, who scripture tells us was a godly woman, greeted Mary as "the Mother of our Lord."

---

Pretty sure the Capitalized M was not in the verbal exchange, but added later by human choice.

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Agreed. The honorific title, complete with the capitalized "M", has only served as a pretext for elevating Mary to a divine status The proof is in the pudding. Look what happened to beliefs about Mary after her "Theotokos" designation.

Glad you're calling this out. I guess that makes you a fellow Pharisee!

Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

---

You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

---

So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

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Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

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You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

---

Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

---

LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

---

Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

---

Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

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Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

---

More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

---

Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

---

Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

---

"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

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Yup, your sig at the end of your post. I mistook it for Sam, but it's definitely your, Fre3dombear.

And it certainly IS an odd signature.

---

Which post?

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

---

You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

---

So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

---

Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

---

You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

---

Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

---

LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

---

Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

---

Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

---

Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

---

More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

---

Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

---

Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

---

"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

---

Yup, your sig at the end of your post. I mistook it for Sam, but it's definitely your, Fre3dombear.

And it certainly IS an odd signature.

---

Which post?

---

The one I quoted right above mine. Sig in bold.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

---

You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

---

So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

---

Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

---

You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

---

Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

---

LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

---

Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

---

Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

---

Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

---

More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

---

Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

---

Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

---

"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

---

Yup, your sig at the end of your post. I mistook it for Sam, but it's definitely your, Fre3dombear.

And it certainly IS an odd signature.

---

Which post?

---

The one I quoted right above mine. Sig in bold.

---

Apologies. Guess it doesn't come thru

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

---

You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

---

So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

---

Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

---

You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

---

Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

---

LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

---

Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

---

Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

---

Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

---

More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

---

Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

---

Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

---

"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

---

Yup, your sig at the end of your post. I mistook it for Sam, but it's definitely your, Fre3dombear.

And it certainly IS an odd signature.

---

Which post?

---

The one I quoted right above mine. Sig in bold.

---

Apologies. Guess it doesn't come thru

---

No worries, just a quip anyway.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

---

You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

---

So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

---

Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

---

You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

---

Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

---

LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

---

Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

---

Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

---

Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

---

More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

---

Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

---

Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

---

"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

---

Yup, your sig at the end of your post. I mistook it for Sam, but it's definitely your, Fre3dombear.

And it certainly IS an odd signature.

---

Which post?

---

The one I quoted right above mine. Sig in bold.

---

Apologies. Guess it doesn't come thru

---

No worries, just a quip anyway.

---

Cool cool. I dont think I have a signature here at least not one that I see.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

---

You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

---

So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

---

Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

---

You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

---

Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

---

LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

---

Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

---

Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

---

Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

---

More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

---

Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

---

Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

---

"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

---

So there is such a thing as a sinless human? Paul and even Christ himself would be very surprised by that. And for those who aren't sinless, they'll go to this made up place called purgatory? A place never mentioned in scripture?

Can you tell me of an example of a sinless human in the Bible, other than Christ that is.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
" I guess that was a lie.

---

Mary Mother of God

To square your belief in this new religion you speak of you'd have to believe things for example like Jesus went to Heaven on Good Friday. Support that claim (without irrational childish name calling and hate
- just defense of your position)

---

So the way the verse was meant to read was, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God except Mary"? Interesting. Can you point to the verses in scripture that support that position? Or is this your classic circular reasoning - well that's wha the Catholic Church has always taught so it's of course right? Lol.

As for where Christ went immediately after death, scripture is silent on this point, as I've repeatedly explained. Not sure if it's a reading compression problem or you being purposely obtuse. You just don't like the possibility he ended up in heaven because the thief on the cross destroys your little narrative:

As for name calling, the only poster doing that right now is yourself. So let's stop projecting and have a discussion if you can.

Fre3dombear said:

---

historian said:

---

Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Jesus is God. Mary is Mother of Jesus. Mary is Mother of God. Simple. Otherwise you're left believing and teaching the human nature of Jesus is not God.

Always fascinating what Protestant Christians get hung up and emotional about. Much energy spent there on confusion. I'd recommend let it go and focus elsewhere on their faith and hope for the best. Focus on the common ground.

Youre also thinking on things that were discussed and settled nearly 2000 years ago and you're choosing the losing side.

---

Jesus was both human & God. Mary was only human. She has zero divine properties, just like every other human who has ever lived except Jesus. She was a sinner and she needed Christ to get to heaven, like everyone else.

Calling her the Mother of God implies some sort of divinity that has never existed. It's almost like it's meant to confuse and obfuscate the gospel. It serves no legitimate purpose.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Also, poor Joseph. Jesus was (and is) the Son of God, but Joseph was his father figure while Jesus grew up, and the head of household.

All that praise and attention for Mary, yet her husband Joseph gets shoved into a corner.

---

It does not help his cause that he died before Christ's ministry began. He's not mentioned in the biography of Jesus after childhood.

The reality is that it does not matter. I have no doubt that both Mary & Joseph knew he Jesus really was and believed in Him. They were eyewitnesses to all His early miracles including His virgin birth, the only time that has ever happened. Whenn we get to heaven we can have some fascinating conversations with him!

Exactly. I think it's possible that Jesus had no DNA from Mary either. He did not need any because He was divinely conceived. Or maybe He did. We will never know and don't really need to know. The issue is as insignificant as medieval debates about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!

Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

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Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

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How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

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'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

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Elizabeth, who scripture tells us was a godly woman, greeted Mary as "the Mother of our Lord."

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Pretty sure the Capitalized M was not in the verbal exchange, but added later by human choice.

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It also might be a translation issue. None of them spoke English.

DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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DallasBear9902 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.

---

Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is none higher than God.

"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.

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How do you feel about "Mother of the Lord"?

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'Mary, whom Jesus called Mom' would be fine.

Titles implying a divine rank, no.

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Elizabeth, who scripture tells us was a godly woman, greeted Mary as "the Mother of our Lord."

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Pretty sure the Capitalized M was not in the verbal exchange, but added later by human choice.

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Yeah, I am sure a likely illiterate peasant woman who was clearly using the phrasing as an honorific really meant it with a lower-case "m" in the moment. That's what we're going to hang our hat on?

So, please, tell me why it was so significant to Elizabeth that Mary, in her capacity as mother of the Lord, was visiting her but she meant it all with a lower-case "m"?

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However Elizabeth greeted her relative, of one thing we can be certain: she did not see her as divine in any way. She acknowledged that Mary was blessed to be chosen by God for a special and unique role.

By the same token, so we're Moses, Ruth, David, Elijah, Esther, and mss as my others. In that respect, Mary was no different.

historian said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Also, poor Joseph. Jesus was (and is) the Son of God, but Joseph was his father figure while Jesus grew up, and the head of household.

All that praise and attention for Mary, yet her husband Joseph gets shoved into a corner.

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It does not help his cause that he died before Christ's ministry began. He's not mentioned in the biography of Jesus after childhood.

The reality is that it does not matter. I have no doubt that both Mary & Joseph knew he Jesus really was and believed in Him. They were eyewitnesses to all His early miracles including His virgin birth, the only time that has ever happened. Whenn we get to heaven we can have some fascinating conversations with him!

---

We agree that scripture doesn't really talk about Joseph during Jesus's life. You know what else is not talked about much? Mary. There's nothing in scripture to suggest she has any divine qualities, was sinless, or was worthy to be prayed to. Yet, that hasn't stopped the Catholic Church from doing so.

So the poster in question has a point. If we're going to point to lack of scripture support for the position that Joseph doesn't deserve the same treatment, then we have to use that same logic when it comes to Mary.

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

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You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

---

So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

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Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

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You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

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Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

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LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

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Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

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Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

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Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

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More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

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Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

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Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

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"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

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So there is such a thing as a sinless human? Paul and even Christ himself would be very surprised by that. And for those who aren't sinless, they'll go to this made up place called purgatory? A place never mentioned in scripture?

Can you tell me of an example of a sinless human in the Bible, other than Christ that is.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
" I guess that was a lie.

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Mary Mother of God

To square your belief in this new religion you speak of you'd have to believe things for example like Jesus went to Heaven on Good Friday. Support that claim (without irrational childish name calling and hate
- just defense of your position)

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So the way the verse was meant to read was, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God except Mary"? Interesting. Can you point to the verses in scripture that support that position? Or is this your classic circular reasoning - well that's wha the Catholic Church has always taught so it's of course right? Lol.

As for where Christ went immediately after death, scripture is silent on this point, as I've repeatedly explained. Not sure if it's a reading compression problem or you being purposely obtuse. You just don't like the possibility he ended up in heaven because the thief on the cross destroys your little narrative:

As for name calling, the only poster doing that right now is yourself. So let's stop projecting and have a discussion if you can.

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Romans 3:23 is a rhetorical unit about the universal human condition under the law, not an exhaustive census of every individual. The same argument would force the conclusion that infants, young children and the mentally incapacitated are sinners in the same sense and if they die as non believers then they go to hell.

There are many Calvinists that believe infants who die will go to hell…so maybe you're just a Calvinist?

I keep hearing this claim that Scripture alone can give you a perfect definition of the Holy Trinity as defined by Nicea and Chalcedon which most Protestants affirm.

Thats absolute nonsense.

Aries made his case to deny the Trinity with texts like Proverbs 8:22 ("the Lord created me at the beginning of his work"), John 14:28 ("the Father is greater than I"), Colossians 1:15 ("firstborn of all creation"), and Mark 13:32 (the Son not knowing the day or hour).

The Trinity was not settled by a better proof text. It was settled by a council with binding authority. Which is the problem. You can't affirm Nicaea and Chalcedon as settled Christianity, but then reject other conclusions from that same tradition and that same authority. You cannot selectively invoke conciliar authority when it suits you and discard it when it doesn't or you have no way to bind everyone.

Nobody actually relies on scripture alone either. Yall need to cut out that nonsense. Total bs. When a Reformed Protestant settles a disputed question by appealing to Calvin, or a Lutheran defers to Luther's exegesis, or a Baptist cites the Second London Confession, they are functionally doing exactly what they accuse Catholics and Orthodox of doing: grounding theological conclusions in the authority of post biblical teachers and confessional documents rather than scripture alone.

Mothra said:

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historian said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Also, poor Joseph. Jesus was (and is) the Son of God, but Joseph was his father figure while Jesus grew up, and the head of household.

All that praise and attention for Mary, yet her husband Joseph gets shoved into a corner.

---

It does not help his cause that he died before Christ's ministry began. He's not mentioned in the biography of Jesus after childhood.

The reality is that it does not matter. I have no doubt that both Mary & Joseph knew he Jesus really was and believed in Him. They were eyewitnesses to all His early miracles including His virgin birth, the only time that has ever happened. Whenn we get to heaven we can have some fascinating conversations with him!

---

We agree that scripture doesn't really talk about Joseph during Jesus's life. You know what else is not talked about much? Mary. There's nothing in scripture to suggest she has any divine qualities, was sinless, or was worthy to be prayed to. Yet, that hasn't stopped the Catholic Church from doing so.

So the poster in question has a point. If we're going to point to lack of scripture support for the position that Joseph doesn't deserve the same treatment, then we have to use that same logic when it comes to Mary.

---

Good point. I prefer not to discuss either very much. We can respect and admire both for their faithful obedience, like many other individuals in the Bible, but there is no reason for anything else. Our focus should be on serving God, including His Son Jesus Christ.

" There are many Calvinists that believe infants who die will go to hell"

I have not heard that in my life. I do not think your statement is true.

Provide links of those people saying that, please.

Oldbear83 said:

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" There are many Calvinists that believe infants who die will go to hell"

I have not heard that in my life. I do not think your statement is true.

Provide links of those people saying that, please.

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The "elect infants" language in the Westminster Confession is itself an implicit admission that non-elect infants exist as a category within their framework. You can't really escape it if you're claiming TULIP is dogmatic.

If Calvinists say "elect infants dying in infancy are saved," they've created a logical category of non elect infants dying in infancy. And if unconditional reprobation means what they say it means, that category of infants faces damnation. They can't have it both ways.

Peter Martyr Vermigli "Young infants must be punished (in hell-fire). But it is credible they shall be the easier punished."

Calvin himself, per Krauth's documented citations from his Opera: "As to infants they seem to perish not by their own fault but by the fault of another…they bear corruption shut up in the soul, so that before God they are damnable."

Lutheran theologian Charles Krauth summarized the position plainly: "Holding that all infants deserve damnation, that the election of God alone can save them from it, and that this election does not extend to all infants, Calvinism of necessity teaches that some infants perish."

Again, actual links showing Calvinist making the statements you claim, please.

Doc Holliday said:

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I keep hearing this claim that Scripture alone can give you a perfect definition of the Holy Trinity as defined by Nicea and Chalcedon which most Protestants affirm.

Thats absolute nonsense.

Aries made his case to deny the Trinity with texts like Proverbs 8:22 ("the Lord created me at the beginning of his work"), John 14:28 ("the Father is greater than I"), Colossians 1:15 ("firstborn of all creation"), and Mark 13:32 (the Son not knowing the day or hour).

The Trinity was not settled by a better proof text. It was settled by a council with binding authority. Which is the problem. You can't affirm Nicaea and Chalcedon as settled Christianity, but then reject other conclusions from that same tradition and that same authority. You cannot selectively invoke conciliar authority when it suits you and discard it when it doesn't or you have no way to bind everyone.

Nobody actually relies on scripture alone either. Yall need to cut out that nonsense. Total bs. When a Reformed Protestant settles a disputed question by appealing to Calvin, or a Lutheran defers to Luther's exegesis, or a Baptist cites the Second London Confession, they are functionally doing exactly what they accuse Catholics and Orthodox of doing: grounding theological conclusions in the authority of post biblical teachers and confessional documents rather than scripture alone.

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You realize that you're arguing against solO scriptura, and not solA scriptura?

And the concept of the Trinity is fully derivable from Scripture, as I had already demonstrated to you. Besides, if it wasn't, how could have the councils come to that conclusion? Did they create a concept out of whole cloth?

Here's a question for you, as well as for everyone else: is the belief in the Trinity necessary for one's salvation?

By definition, a Christian believes in and worships Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Although the Bible goes not use the term "Trinity", Jesus regularly spoke of His Father and of the Spirit (Helper). He was clear about the reality of the Trinity. The 3 have always existed as the one true God. See the creation account in Genesis & John 1, for example. If one believes in Jesus as the Son of God who never sinned, one cannot accuse Him of lying.

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Mothra said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

---

You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

---

So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

---

Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

---

You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?

LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.

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Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.

Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.

Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!

Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.

All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.

---

LOL. More projection.

I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?

Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.

Good luck!

---

Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.

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Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.

I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.

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Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.

Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.

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More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.

If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.

---

Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.

1) never suddenly changed anything

2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?

3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.

You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory

4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived

Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice

Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith

Shared With extreme bravery…

Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?

---

Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.

So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?

---

"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven

Mary Mother of God

---

So there is such a thing as a sinless human? Paul and even Christ himself would be very surprised by that. And for those who aren't sinless, they'll go to this made up place called purgatory? A place never mentioned in scripture?

Can you tell me of an example of a sinless human in the Bible, other than Christ that is.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
" I guess that was a lie.

---

Mary Mother of God

To square your belief in this new religion you speak of you'd have to believe things for example like Jesus went to Heaven on Good Friday. Support that claim (without irrational childish name calling and hate
- just defense of your position)

---

So the way the verse was meant to read was, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God except Mary"? Interesting. Can you point to the verses in scripture that support that position? Or is this your classic circular reasoning - well that's wha the Catholic Church has always taught so it's of course right? Lol.

As for where Christ went immediately after death, scripture is silent on this point, as I've repeatedly explained. Not sure if it's a reading compression problem or you being purposely obtuse. You just don't like the possibility he ended up in heaven because the thief on the cross destroys your little narrative:

As for name calling, the only poster doing that right now is yourself. So let's stop projecting and have a discussion if you can.

---

Jesus used that term once. Used Heaven 95+ other times. Anyone in the world believe Jesus died in the cross and zoomed up to Heaven for a cup of coffee, a fist bump to Dad and then headed to limbo? Hades? Hell? Gehenna?

Are there any in this thread that believe this? Neber heard even a Protestant Christian present that viewpoint.