Oldbear83 said:

---

The Church includes ALL Christians.

That includes Protestant Christians.

If you don't like it, too bad.

---

Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? They believe in God. How about Mormons? They claim to be Christians as well. At what point does any of it matter then? We all just interpret what we want and coast comfortably right on up into Heaven. Nothing to question. Nothing to consider. Nothing to check one's self

Just close eyes. Believe. Bang zoom HOV to Heaven. Simpol. Easy peazy lemon squeazy

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

Oldbear83 said:

---

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

---

The lady doth protest too much. Where do you draw the line since you are judge and drawer of lines?

Who is in and who is out of the 40,000 plus choices a protestant has to choose from?

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

---

The lady doth protest too much. Where do you draw the line since you are judge and drawer of lines?

Who is in and who is out of the 40,000 plus choices a protestant has to choose from?

---

Sir, I remind you that you are the one saying Protestants are not Christian.

On no evidence but your spite.

I have rebuked BusyTarpDuster for the same malice in his posts, and I call you according to the same standard.

John 3:16 states the matter plainly. If you disagree, you may take it up with Our Lord at your convenience.

You have flooded this thread with insults, attacks and false claims. And yet you have no shame for it.

I have prayed for you and will do so again, just as I pray that BusyTarpDuster's heart might be open to the Holy Spirit.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

---

The lady doth protest too much. Where do you draw the line since you are judge and drawer of lines?

Who is in and who is out of the 40,000 plus choices a protestant has to choose from?

---

Sir, I remind you that you are the one saying Protestants are not Christian.

On no evidence but your spite.

I have rebuked BusyTarpDuster for the same malice in his posts, and I call you according to the same standard.

John 3:16 states the matter plainly. If you disagree, you may take it up with Our Lord at your convenience.

You have flooded this thread with insults, attacks and false claims. And yet you have no shame for it.

I have prayed for you and will do so again, just as I pray that BusyTarpDuster's heart might be open to the Holy Spirit.

---

It appears kind sir that you do not know what the word insult means and just because your doctrine has taught you inadequately does not mean I am insulting you or anyone. Otherwise you have incessantly insulted and lied about all Catholics ad nauseum.

This is a discourse to share knowledge and learn and teach.

I posted a series of your posts

Insults are a major part of your argument.

And again, you are the one pretending to judge who is a Christian, in defiance of Scripture.

You need to talk with Jesus about that, since you have forgotten what He taught.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You have a lot to discuss with your priest the next time you go to confession.

But I doubt you will mention there the kind of things you said here.

---

You are quite the judger of men in your own mind. Maybe God will have a special job for you when your time comes to take the load off Him a bit.

If you have not confessed your sins to a priest, you are living in mortal sin. Per the Bible. Assembled by Catholics, the Church founded by Jesus Christ

But mock as you wish. It is your free will

---

where in the Bible does it say that? It says confess your sin to one another and to the one you sinned against, at no point does it say to confess only to a preist or you live in sin.

Comfessing to a preist is to allow a church member a safe place to confess sin as the church has tares among the wheat..

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

---

The lady doth protest too much. Where do you draw the line since you are judge and drawer of lines?

Who is in and who is out of the 40,000 plus choices a protestant has to choose from?

---

Pretty much begins and ends with what Christ says on the subject. See John 3:16-18.

You don't have to belong to any specific sect to repent and believe. These things are elementary, of course.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You have a lot to discuss with your priest the next time you go to confession.

But I doubt you will mention there the kind of things you said here.

---

If you have not confessed your sins to a priest, you are living in mortal sin. Per the Bible. Assembled by Catholics, the Church founded by Jesus Christ

---

Said God, never.

4th and Inches said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You have a lot to discuss with your priest the next time you go to confession.

But I doubt you will mention there the kind of things you said here.

---

You are quite the judger of men in your own mind. Maybe God will have a special job for you when your time comes to take the load off Him a bit.

If you have not confessed your sins to a priest, you are living in mortal sin. Per the Bible. Assembled by Catholics, the Church founded by Jesus Christ

But mock as you wish. It is your free will

---

where in the Bible does it say that? It says confess your sin to one another and to the one you sinned against, at no point does it say to confess only to a preist or you live in sin.

Comfessing to a preist is to allow a church member a safe place to confess sin as the church has tares among the wheat..

---

Pearls before swine. You're dealing with someone who lacks basic reasoning abilities. He's been propagandized by Catholicism since he was a little boy. There's no getting through to him.

Coke Bear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

But for clarity, when 'Catholic' is used by itself, it refers to the Church Entire, which includes the Protestants (cue selected wailing and gnashing of teeth). Any denomination of Christianity which includes 'Catholic' in its name does not have claim to the totality of the word.

---

When in the lower case, "catholic" does mean universal. That is how is it written in the Nicaean Creed.

However, when capitalized, "Catholic" refers to the Church.

Roman Catholic is a pejorative started by Anglicans when they split from the Church. It has become commonplace today, but it is not respectful of those other rites, who hold the same beliefs.

---

What exists today as the church administered by the Vatican is appropriately called the Roman Catholic or Latin Church. It lost its right to be included under the umbrella of Catholic in 1054 A.D.

Oldbear83 said:

---

I posted a series of your posts

Insults are a major part of your argument.

And again, you are the one pretending to judge who is a Christian, in defiance of Scripture.

You need to talk with Jesus about that, since you have forgotten what He taught.

---

Projecting will get you nowhere. Catholic apologetics is not insulting anyone. Some introspection is needed by you if you think so. Best of luck in your recovery.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

---

The lady doth protest too much. Where do you draw the line since you are judge and drawer of lines?

Who is in and who is out of the 40,000 plus choices a protestant has to choose from?

---

Pretty much begins and ends with what Christ says on the subject. See John 3:16-18.

You don't have to belong to any specific sect to repent and believe. These things are elementary, of course.

---

Imagine a faith of a single verse and you good. Simpol. Please donate.

Not 66 books. Literally a single verse is all you need.

Wven Calvin would be impressed.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

---

The lady doth protest too much. Where do you draw the line since you are judge and drawer of lines?

Who is in and who is out of the 40,000 plus choices a protestant has to choose from?

---

Pretty much begins and ends with what Christ says on the subject. See John 3:16-18.

You don't have to belong to any specific sect to repent and believe. These things are elementary, of course.

---

Said God Never.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Your posts I posted a series of your posts

Insults are a major part of your argument.

And again, you are the one pretending to judge who is a Christian, in defiance of Scripture.

You need to talk with Jesus about that, since you have forgotten what He taught.

---

Projecting will get you nowhere. Catholic apologetics is not insulting anyone. Some introspection is needed by you if you think so. Best of luck in your recovery.

---

Your own posts prove your malice. They are against Scripture and full of hate and pride.

You lie about Protestants and then pretend you are the victim. This grieves the Holy Spirit, just as it would when a Protestant lies about other denominations. You know whom I mean about the second part, yet you write with even more spite and venom.

Take your own advice. Pray, repent, return from your hate.

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You have a lot to discuss with your priest the next time you go to confession.

But I doubt you will mention there the kind of things you said here.

---

You are quite the judger of men in your own mind. Maybe God will have a special job for you when your time comes to take the load off Him a bit.

If you have not confessed your sins to a priest, you are living in mortal sin. Per the Bible. Assembled by Catholics, the Church founded by Jesus Christ

But mock as you wish. It is your free will

---

where in the Bible does it say that? It says confess your sin to one another and to the one you sinned against, at no point does it say to confess only to a preist or you live in sin.

Comfessing to a preist is to allow a church member a safe place to confess sin as the church has tares among the wheat..

---

Pearls before swine. You're dealing with someone who lacks basic reasoning abilities. He's been propagandized by Catholicism since he was a little boy. There's no getting through to him.

---

Younger than that Even but thankfully born into the faith Jesus Christ left us. Helping as many as I can while I'm here. Praise God.

This here is someone posting that inly defense theyve made for their position on this board is nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

Simpleton perspective that canteven explain what they believed last 500 years.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Your posts I posted a series of your posts

Insults are a major part of your argument.

And again, you are the one pretending to judge who is a Christian, in defiance of Scripture.

You need to talk with Jesus about that, since you have forgotten what He taught.

---

Projecting will get you nowhere. Catholic apologetics is not insulting anyone. Some introspection is needed by you if you think so. Best of luck in your recovery.

---

Your own posts prove your malice. They are against Scripture and full of hate and pride.

You lie about Protestants and then pretend you are the victim. This grieves the Holy Spirit, just as it would when a Protestant lies about other denominations. You know whom I mean about the second part, yet you write with even more spite and venom.

Take your own advice. Pray, repent, return from your hate.

---

Zero malice.

Zero hate

Merely explaining why the 2000 year old faith believes what it believes to those that have been taught to dislike Catholics and can't explain why they believe English words and missing passages from the Bible.

With love as always. Free will is a thing. Calling people names won't chamge that for you. Judging them won't go well go you. But again it is your free will. Direct your anger and confusion elsewhere.

Carry on with your rage and wasting time with your posts.

Feel free to finally defend your wayward confused beliefs at any time. I'll engage anything more than "just read John 3:16" thats not a personal attack of me.

Your posts prove your heart.

That's something you cannot escape, although you very obviously are trying.

How strange that you falsely claim other Christians are no different from Muslims, yet imagine anyone will see those lies as "love as always".

Oldbear83 said:

---

Your posts prove your heart.

That's something you cannot escape, although you very obviously are trying.

How strange that you falsely claim other Christians are no different from Muslims, yet imagine anyone will see those lies as "love as always".

---

Au contraire. In fact it was you that claimed protestant Christians are Catholic. A more bizarre statement has never existed and yet that is your main claim the last few weeks other than incessently judging everyone and suggesting any post in defense of a position is a personal attack somehow.

Carry on.

This has been an interesting thread.

Two here have written with a great deal of pride and spite. They do this to attack believers from groups to which they do not belong, demonstrating a personal insecurity they are quick to deny, but which is obvious.

What else is fascinating, is how each of these two men point to Scripture which in no way supports their claim.

This thread has been filled with a lot of wild claims, including the thread title, with almost nothing to support them in Scripture and certainly well short of proof. I half-expect the atheists on our board would find the bickering and attacks evidence of the character of believers. But I also am disappointed that so many here cannot see beyond their personal beliefs, to consider arguments from someone outside their group but with authentic identity about their experiences.

To a degree, that's normal, because people often think that beliefs they don't personally hold are wrong or at least missing something. But I have met a lot of people in different places and who grew up in different cultures, and from what I have seen there are a lot of good and bad people everywhere. I believe that God has a plan for everyone, and will make a way for anyone seeking Him in good faith. This matters, because I find the idea that we cannot be saved unless we meet some detailed and strict set of standards and rules, especially when those claims run directly against Scripture.

There are places where some clearly have put Religion above Christ in their hearts. This thread is one of those places.

Thanks, by the way, to FLBear, whose behavior and approach in this thread has been open and courteous and completely in line with how we Christians are directed to act towards other believers.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

juist as Your posts prove your heart.

That's something you cannot escape, although you very obviously are trying.

How strange that you falsely claim other Christians are no different from Muslims, yet imagine anyone will see those lies as "love as always".

---

Au contraire. In fact it was you that claimed protestant Christians are Catholic. A more bizarre statement has never existed and yet that is your main claim the last few weeks other than incessently judging everyone and suggesting any post in defense of a position is a personal attack somehow.

Carry on.

---

"Catholic" is simply the word which refers to the Church as a whole. Protestants who accepted Christ as their Lord are every bit as Christian and part of that Catholic Church as anyone else.

You do not get to bar anyone from Christ, sir.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

juist as Your posts prove your heart.

That's something you cannot escape, although you very obviously are trying.

How strange that you falsely claim other Christians are no different from Muslims, yet imagine anyone will see those lies as "love as always".

---

Au contraire. In fact it was you that claimed protestant Christians are Catholic. A more bizarre statement has never existed and yet that is your main claim the last few weeks other than incessently judging everyone and suggesting any post in defense of a position is a personal attack somehow.

Carry on.

---

"Catholic" is simply the word which refers to the Church as a whole. Protestants who accepted Christ as their Lord are every bit as Christian and part of that Catholic Church as anyone else.

You do not get to bar anyone from Christ, sir.

---

I would never deign to bar or judge anyone. God is the only just judge.

God nor I bars anyone from anytbing. You only bar yourself.

I am excited to use this as an example in my next talk of how now some protestant Christians are attempting to appropriate Catholicism. In all my discussions this one is a first.

We are making progress!!!

Read through your posts on this thread.

Your enemy is the guy you see in the mirror everyday.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Read through your posts on this thread.

Your enemy is the guy you see in the mirror everyday.

---

Seriously, your obsession with me and others personally is quite unhealthy. Again, a request that you focus on defending your doctrine and not on me or others personally. Otherwise you start sound like Charlie Kirk's assassin.

Very weird and seriously unhealthy. Remember when that guy lost his mind at me a couple months back and made a fool of himself and disappeared? That was quite embarrassing for him to do that in front of everyone. You seem quite on that path. Step away for a bit. Come back when focused on doctrine and defending your faith not your judgement of others' souls

This is a safe space. Stop the personal attacks.

Congrats F3, you proved you are the least honest person on this thread.

Off to ignore you go.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

---

The lady doth protest too much. Where do you draw the line since you are judge and drawer of lines?

Who is in and who is out of the 40,000 plus choices a protestant has to choose from?

---

Pretty much begins and ends with what Christ says on the subject. See John 3:16-18.

You don't have to belong to any specific sect to repent and believe. These things are elementary, of course.

---

Said God Never.

---

So you don't believe Jesus's own words to Nicodemus in John 3:16-18?

Figures. I always knew you were a heretic.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You have a lot to discuss with your priest the next time you go to confession.

But I doubt you will mention there the kind of things you said here.

---

You are quite the judger of men in your own mind. Maybe God will have a special job for you when your time comes to take the load off Him a bit.

If you have not confessed your sins to a priest, you are living in mortal sin. Per the Bible. Assembled by Catholics, the Church founded by Jesus Christ

But mock as you wish. It is your free will

---

where in the Bible does it say that? It says confess your sin to one another and to the one you sinned against, at no point does it say to confess only to a preist or you live in sin.

Comfessing to a preist is to allow a church member a safe place to confess sin as the church has tares among the wheat..

---

Pearls before swine. You're dealing with someone who lacks basic reasoning abilities. He's been propagandized by Catholicism since he was a little boy. There's no getting through to him.

---

Younger than that Even but thankfully born into the faith Jesus Christ left us. Helping as many as I can while I'm here. Praise God.

This here is someone posting that inly defense theyve made for their position on this board is nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

Simpleton perspective that canteven explain what they believed last 500 years.

---

Yes, they indoctrinated you early, that is for sure. You were a good little altar boy. It would explain your blind allegiance and simplistic defenses.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Congrats F3, you proved you are the least honest person on this thread.

Off to ignore you go.

---

Oh nooooooooooo

Doctrine only. Or please move on. Zero concern of your judgements of anyone personally.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You have a lot to discuss with your priest the next time you go to confession.

But I doubt you will mention there the kind of things you said here.

---

You are quite the judger of men in your own mind. Maybe God will have a special job for you when your time comes to take the load off Him a bit.

If you have not confessed your sins to a priest, you are living in mortal sin. Per the Bible. Assembled by Catholics, the Church founded by Jesus Christ

But mock as you wish. It is your free will

---

where in the Bible does it say that? It says confess your sin to one another and to the one you sinned against, at no point does it say to confess only to a preist or you live in sin.

Comfessing to a preist is to allow a church member a safe place to confess sin as the church has tares among the wheat..

---

Pearls before swine. You're dealing with someone who lacks basic reasoning abilities. He's been propagandized by Catholicism since he was a little boy. There's no getting through to him.

---

Younger than that Even but thankfully born into the faith Jesus Christ left us. Helping as many as I can while I'm here. Praise God.

This here is someone posting that inly defense theyve made for their position on this board is nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

Simpleton perspective that canteven explain what they believed last 500 years.

---

Yes, they indoctrinated you early, that is for sure. You were a good little altar boy. It would explain your blind allegiance and simplistic defenses.

---

You have 2 defenses thus far when not losing it

Nuh uh and John 3:16. Yawn.

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" Why stop at all Christians? How about Muslims? "

So you equate non-Roman Catholic Christians with Muslims.

Telling.

---

The lady doth protest too much. Where do you draw the line since you are judge and drawer of lines?

Who is in and who is out of the 40,000 plus choices a protestant has to choose from?

---

Pretty much begins and ends with what Christ says on the subject. See John 3:16-18.

You don't have to belong to any specific sect to repent and believe. These things are elementary, of course.

---

Said God Never.

---

So you don't believe Jesus's own words to Nicodemus in John 3:16-18?

Figures. I always knew you were a heretic.

---

Says the Helvidian Heretic. You were dealt with near a couple thousand years ago.

Saints prayers are more efficacious than ours.

Brazil has been eliminated from the World Cup and a national examination of conscience will run for the next few months. Lots of Brazilian commentary out there that the Protestant conversion of Brazil over the past few decades is what has killed Brazilian futbol.

The discourse connecting Brazilian soccer to Protestantism points to a deeper cultural claim: that Brazil’s football decline is not merely tactical, generational, or administrative, but spiritual and civilizational.

The argument is that the old Brazilian style — playful,… https://t.co/yTCEanAMsO pic.twitter.com/T6MZLUWhcU

— Institute for Hispano Studies (@hispano_studies) July 6, 2026

I'm not really sure what currently ails Brazilian soccer, but the framing here is interesting in the context of our running conversation on these boards. Interestingly, I think both sides probably accept the framing.

There is also an interesting meme of Neymar making the rounds (Neymar is the current (Protestant) Brazilian superstar that has defined the last decade plus of Brazilian soccer; a player whose legacy will ultimately be one of disappointment). Delightfully, the play on words translates well to English:

"Prays like a gringo;
Plays like a gringo."

After countless posts, I doubt any of us will change the other's minds theologically, but there is something about the difference in community between the Protestant and Catholic expressions of Christianity. I'm not trying to leave the Orthodox out of this conversation; I've always enjoyed being with them and felt welcome in their spaces, even if it feels (comfortably) foreign to me. And I think they've felt the same about me when invited into my community.

To use a perhaps light hearted example of this, dating at least back to my time at Baylor, many of us have lamented just how challenging it can be to get the Baylor faithful to present a united front just as fans at games (the battles over what shade of gold people were willing to wear come to mind). Contrast to how easily Catholics can rally and unite around Notre Dame and the entire stadium will wear the same thing (or use BYU and Mormons if you prefer). Fundamentally, the specific issue is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but it does speak to something bigger.

Where Mothra sees indoctrination, we see unity and community. I suppose where we see recalcitrance and resistance to submission, Mothra sees individual righteousness. And on and on it goes.

Coke Bear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

- your first paragraph is just flat out wrong. In fact, it's exactly how cults operate.

---

It is historically true that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. It is true that the Spirit of Truth (the Holy Spirit) would guide it in all truth.

My Church has existed for nearly 2000 years, but you believe that it is a something like a cult operates, YET, you refuse to state what church you belong to. YOU have made up a religion based on what YOU believe about the bible which contradicts what the earliest church fathers believe AND which also contradicts all of Church history for the first 1500 years. It sounds to me like you have made your old cult and are attempting to garner disciples here.

---

It is true that the Holy Spirit would guide Jesus' church into all truth. The question is whether the Roman Catholic Church is part of Jesus' true church. I've think I've clearly established that it isn't.

My church is the entire body of true believers in Jesus Christ, all who have the Holy Spirit guiding them. This does not include the Roman Catholic Church. Though, there may be true believers who call themselves Roman Catholic as an identity but they aren't truly one in heart. Yes, your Church claims to have existed for 2000 years (though this claim can be rightfully rejected, since it didn't really start until the time of Constantine in the 4th century, and it has not been consistent but rather has significantly changed over time, even contradicting itself). God's true church, however, has indeed existed since Jesus started it 2000 years ago. Roman Catholicism with its sacramental system, idolatrous beliefs and practices, and corrupt Gospel is clearly an apostate church that broke away from the true church.

The "made up religion" clearly would be Roman Catholicism, which is built on the whims of fallible man instead of the infallible word of God.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

- your first paragraph is just flat out wrong. In fact, it's exactly how cults operate.

---

It is historically true that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. It is true that the Spirit of Truth (the Holy Spirit) would guide it in all truth.

My Church has existed for nearly 2000 years, but you believe that it is a something like a cult operates, YET, you refuse to state what church you belong to. YOU have made up a religion based on what YOU believe about the bible which contradicts what the earliest church fathers believe AND which also contradicts all of Church history for the first 1500 years. It sounds to me like you have made your old cult and are attempting to garner disciples here.

---

It is true that the Holy Spirit would guide Jesus' church into all truth.

The question is whether the Roman Catholic Church is part of Jesus' church. I've think I've clearly established that it isn't.

My church is the entire body of true believers in Jesus Christ, all who have the Holy Spirit guiding them. This does not include your Church. Your Church has existed for 2000 years, yes (albeit inconsistently). So has God's true church (but consistent). The problem for Roman Catholicism is, those two are not the same thing.

The "made up religion" clearly would be Roman Catholicism, which is built on the whims of fallible man instead of the infallible word of God.

---

No true Scot, eh?

What denomination are you a member of?

Coke Bear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Did the vast majority of church fathers, theologians, scholars, historians, and even major Christians reference texts from the time of Jerome (c 350) up until the 16th century consider the deuterocanon as part of the canon? NO

Ergo, they were added.

---

This is demonstrably false. As we have discussed, a wide range of beliefs were present in the early Church about the Deuterocanon. It was certainly NOT a majority.

By the end of Jerome's life, he neither categorically rejected the Deuterocanon. He showed deference to the judgement of the Church. He states, "What sin have I committed in following the judgment of the churches?"

He wound up strenuously defending their status as inspired Scripture. He never said that the Deuterocanon was unscriptural he simply said that Jews he knew did not regard them as canonical. This distinction matters enormously. We don't get our canon discernment from the Jews, who also reject Jesus and ALL of the NT.

It was the Church that discerned what is scripture.

Finally, the Codex Sinaiticus (330360 AD) and Codex Vaticanus (300325 AD) contained the Deuterocanon.
The Gutenberg Bible (1455 AD) and the Wycliffe Bible (1380 AD) contained the Deuterocanon.

How could the deuterocanonical books have been added in the 16th century?

---

- I literally proved it was the majority in a previous thread. You are merely recycling a defeated argument. Do I need to show that evidence again? Do we need to see your lack of evidence for your claim again? Say the word, and we can remind the folks.

- Your Jerome history is completely made up. He obeyed the Church and went ahead and translated the deuterocanon into Latin, but he continued to believe that the deuterocanon was not part of canon Scripture. That's why he said so in his Latin Vulgate Bible. You have NO evidence that Jerome "strenuously defended their status as inspired Scripture". I guess when you have such a weak position, you have to make up the evidence, in hopes that your Catholic brethren won't notice.

- The Roman Catholic Church did NOT discern what was Scripture. My response to FLBear's post above proves this thoroughly. Melito's canon, Bryennios' list, Origen's list, none of which contained the books of the deuterocanon (Origen included Maccabees, but none of the others), pre-existed the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus by more than a century, and pre-existed the 14th and 15th century bibles you cited by over a millenium. The fact is that the vast majority of the Bible was already discerned by the church before the first century was over, LONG before any RCC council ever convened. So NO, the "Church" did not "discern the canon". You keep repeating a claim that's been defeated many, many times in this forum. I'm beginning to detect a pattern.

- I didn't say the deuterocanonical books were added "in the 16th century". This is yet another example of your sloppy argumentation (or maybe it's just dishonesty). I just said they were "added". The BETTER question is, rather, given all the factual historical evidence I presented, how can YOU claim that the deuterocanon was REMOVED in the 16th century?? I think to rational, intelligent people, it's clear that you can't "remove" something that wasn't initially there in the beginning.

You really need to abandon your whole line of argumentation here. The facts just aren't on your side. If you're just going to keep repeating them over and over like you are, you're just gonna make yourself look more and more intellectually dishonest and brainwashed.