Yep that's the issue.Keyser Soze said:
Generally it is just a figure of speech when we (man) is not in firm control of things.
Deeper, it is about the dichotomy of God being all powerful and the free world that runs it's own course.
How are our choices free will yet God already knows our choices?
"God is control." I hear that phrase a lot.
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Last: 4 yr ago by Waco1947
Issue? Who you plucking off the path today?
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Can God control physics? How does one prove it?
Waco1947 said:
In 1536, English theologian and scholar William Tyndale, who was the first to translate the Bible into Early Modern English, was executed for heresy.
Let's put some actual facts around this misconception ...
- First, many approved English translations existed centuries prior to Tynedale.
- A law was written in 1408 prohibiting the reading of unauthorized English bibles because John Wycliff's version was corrupt and full of heresy.
- Tyndale, at best was a mediocre scholar. He had a bad reputation of a violent temper, contempt with authority, and history of insulting all manner of clergy.
- Tyndale's version contained more than 2000 errors in the NT only.
- Its prologue was full of contempt for the Catholic church.
- King Henry VIII, declared that "the translation of Scripture corrupted by Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out the hands of the people."
- It was secular authorities that did him in.
- He was arrested and tried in the court of the Holy Roman Emperor in 1536 for heresy because his bible was full of heresy. Not because it was in English.
Inquisition called - we were head hunters for the Pope and I do mean head hunters. Binary thinkers have always attempted to quiet Differing views.Coke Bear said:Waco1947 said:
In 1536, English theologian and scholar William Tyndale, who was the first to translate the Bible into Early Modern English, was executed for heresy.
Let's put some actual facts around this misconception ...
- First, many approved English translations existed centuries prior to Tynedale.
- A law was written in 1408 prohibiting the reading of unauthorized English bibles because John Wycliff's version was corrupt and full of heresy.
- Tyndale, at best was a mediocre scholar. He had a bad reputation of a violent temper, contempt with authority, and history of insulting all manner of clergy.
- Tyndale's version contained more than 2000 errors in the NT only.
- Its prologue was full of contempt for the Catholic church.
- King Henry VIII, declared that "the translation of Scripture corrupted by Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out the hands of the people."
- It was secular authorities that did him in.
- He was arrested and tried in the court of the Holy Roman Emperor in 1536 for heresy because his bible was full of heresy. Not because it was in English.
Waco1947 said:
Can God control physics? How does one prove it?
But here is real question
God, if there is a God, created the heavens and the earth, including the laws of physics, and then stepped away from it all, and has had no involvement since the creation.
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
Waco1947 said:
Inquisition called - we were head hunters for the Pope and I do mean head hunters. Binary thinkers have always attempted to quiet Differing views.
Please help me understand your post ...
I pointed out a commonly misunderstood falsehood about the Tyndale affair, corrected it with actual facts, and you bring up the Inquisition?
Someone help me ... which fallacy is that? Red Herring fallacy, Two wrongs make a right, or Ad Hominem?
BTW, many real Protestant history scholars have studied the actual records from that period and recognize that a great deal of anti-Spain and Catholic propaganda was spread by the now German region as well as England.
An old theism. Secular Christians and the secular world no longer believe and orthodox, conservative, and fundamentalists cannot explain using the tools of science.Midnight Rider said:
God, if there is a God, created the heavens and the earth, including the laws of physics, and then stepped away from it all, and has had no involvement since the creation.
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
Demanding God be explained by human science is what secular non-believers do.Waco1947 said:An old theism. Secular Christians and the secular world no longer believe and orthodox, conservative, and fundamentalists cannot explain using the tools of science.Midnight Rider said:
God, if there is a God, created the heavens and the earth, including the laws of physics, and then stepped away from it all, and has had no involvement since the creation.
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
Faith in Christ is not about trying to force God to obey human rules.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
"Secular Christian" is like saying "brisket-eating vegan."Waco1947 said:An old theism. Secular Christians and the secular world no longer believe and orthodox, conservative, and fundamentalists cannot explain using the tools of science.Midnight Rider said:
God, if there is a God, created the heavens and the earth, including the laws of physics, and then stepped away from it all, and has had no involvement since the creation.
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
Waco1947 said:
Can God control physics? How does one prove it?
So not giving the creator credit for the laws of nature.
Again, I certainly appreciate your honesty.Midnight Rider said:
God, if there is a God, created the heavens and the earth, including the laws of physics, and then stepped away from it all, and has had no involvement since the creation.
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
Why do you believe that he stepped away? Not trying to answer for you; however, many people will site the existence of great evil in this world is why God doesn't exists or deistic notions like your assertion listed above.
Do you believe that a Jewish man named Jesus, was said to be a wise teacher and was crucified approximately 2000 years ago? (Please note, I am not mentioning anything about God here.)
Chip Engram has a series and Book about "the real God" and this part below is about the Sovereignty of God which I think answers some of the questions in this thread much better than I could.
Recommend listening if you have 30-45 min.
https://subsplash.com/chipingram/lb/mi/+6wpystf
Recommend listening if you have 30-45 min.
https://subsplash.com/chipingram/lb/mi/+6wpystf
Of course you are right old bear but neither can you defeat my logic and science belief in a non all powerful God by faith.Oldbear83 said:Demanding God be explained by human science is what secular non-believers do.Waco1947 said:An old theism. Secular Christians and the secular world no longer believe and orthodox, conservative, and fundamentalists cannot explain using the tools of science.Midnight Rider said:
God, if there is a God, created the heavens and the earth, including the laws of physics, and then stepped away from it all, and has had no involvement since the creation.
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
Faith in Christ is not about trying to force God to obey human rules.
I don't believe he stepped away, but I suspect he stepped away. Again, I don't know for sure.Coke Bear said:Again, I certainly appreciate your honesty.Midnight Rider said:
God, if there is a God, created the heavens and the earth, including the laws of physics, and then stepped away from it all, and has had no involvement since the creation.
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
Why do you believe that he stepped away? Not trying to answer for you; however, many people will site the existence of great evil in this world is why God doesn't exists or deistic notions like your assertion listed above.
Do you believe that a Jewish man named Jesus, was said to be a wise teacher and was crucified approximately 2000 years ago? (Please note, I am not mentioning anything about God here.)
I do believe that Jesus actually existed, and I am enthralled by some of his teachings,
You do not worship God in such statements, Waco. You are trying to demote God behind humanism.Waco1947 said:Of course you are right old bear but neither can you defeat my logic and science belief in a non all powerful God by faith.Oldbear83 said:Demanding God be explained by human science is what secular non-believers do.Waco1947 said:An old theism. Secular Christians and the secular world no longer believe and orthodox, conservative, and fundamentalists cannot explain using the tools of science.Midnight Rider said:
God, if there is a God, created the heavens and the earth, including the laws of physics, and then stepped away from it all, and has had no involvement since the creation.
(That's my gut instinct, anyway. But I don't know for sure).
Faith in Christ is not about trying to force God to obey human rules.
Why do you limit God? What do you want to keep Him from?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
That doesn't make sense. Even if it had words that formed a sentence, it probably still wouldn't make sense. Would you like to try again?Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an d theism God like you.
Great questions
Huh?Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
That is my reaction to many of Waco1947's posts.fadskier said:Huh?Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
You worship a 'god'' shaped by your own ignorance.
Midnight Rider said:
I don't believe he stepped away, but I suspect he stepped away. Again, I don't know for sure.
Fair enough. I apologize for stating that incorrectly.
Midnight Rider said:
I do believe that Jesus actually existed, and I am enthralled by some of his teachings,
Good deal.
Do you believe in miracles? If miracles do exist, would you believe that God is still present and not the divine Watch maker?
I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
That's your God. Good for you.Oldbear83 said:I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.
God is spiritual not physics or science. Love is spiritual. I would have to think more about this notion but it's possible God is all powerful in love. It is our hope.
All powerful in love keeps intact our free will. But again I have to think that one through. God never violates free will.
All powerful in love keeps intact our free will. But again I have to think that one through. God never violates free will.
Waco1947
Waco1947 said:That's your God. Good for you.Oldbear83 said:I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.
If "God accepts us too," that is both magical and supernatural.
Nope. That is love and unmerited grace The cross says so. "The power of God is the cross." I CorinthiansD. C. Bear said:Waco1947 said:That's your God. Good for you.Oldbear83 said:I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.
If "God accepts us too," that is both magical and supernatural.
Waco1947
Yes or no, did Jesus bodily rise from the dead?Waco1947 said:Nope. That is love and unmerited grace The cross says so. "The power of God is the cross." I CorinthiansD. C. Bear said:Waco1947 said:That's your God. Good for you.Oldbear83 said:I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.
If "God accepts us too," that is both magical and supernatural.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Waco1947 said:Nope. That is love and unmerited grace The cross says so. "The power of God is the cross." I CorinthiansD. C. Bear said:Waco1947 said:That's your God. Good for you.Oldbear83 said:I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.
If "God accepts us too," that is both magical and supernatural.
If God extends "love and unmerited grace," that is supernatural. If there is no supernatural God, there is no love and there is no grace and there is no power in the cross.
The same question crossed my mind re Wacko's position on the resurrection and I started to post it, then thought it was probably pointless to ask - lol.Oldbear83 said:Yes or no, did Jesus bodily rise from the dead?Waco1947 said:Nope. That is love and unmerited grace The cross says so. "The power of God is the cross." I CorinthiansD. C. Bear said:Waco1947 said:That's your God. Good for you.Oldbear83 said:I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.
If "God accepts us too," that is both magical and supernatural.
It says a lot, that Waco never answers that question.curtpenn said:The same question crossed my mind re Wacko's position on the resurrection and I started to post it, then thought it was probably pointless to ask - lol.Oldbear83 said:Yes or no, did Jesus bodily rise from the dead?Waco1947 said:Nope. That is love and unmerited grace The cross says so. "The power of God is the cross." I CorinthiansD. C. Bear said:Waco1947 said:That's your God. Good for you.Oldbear83 said:I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.
If "God accepts us too," that is both magical and supernatural.
He knows where it leads.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:It says a lot, that Waco never answers that question.curtpenn said:The same question crossed my mind re Wacko's position on the resurrection and I started to post it, then thought it was probably pointless to ask - lol.Oldbear83 said:Yes or no, did Jesus bodily rise from the dead?Waco1947 said:Nope. That is love and unmerited grace The cross says so. "The power of God is the cross." I CorinthiansD. C. Bear said:Waco1947 said:That's your God. Good for you.Oldbear83 said:I think you have that backwards, Waco.Waco1947 said:
I worship God but not an old theism God like you.
My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.
The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.
I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.
I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.
I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.
I hope one day, you will know Him also.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.
If "God accepts us too," that is both magical and supernatural.
He knows where it leads.
If memory serves, he says Jesus' resurrection was a "spiritual" resurrection. For some reason he does not seem to grasp that, even if Jesus' resurrection was "spiritual," he is still dealing with a supernatural God he says does not exist.