Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Yeah JR, let's go ahead and lockdown for two months and increase penalties for not wearing masks.

Also no travel.

If you object because it's hurting your wallet then you're a racist bigot.

---

now, doc....I'm pragmatic, and you aren not. I'm not saying lockdown, I go to the office everyday, support my local restaurants and bars. It's obvious that mercans are either are too selfish or arrogant to voluntarily wear a mask in public. Travel can wait. I've traveled extensively , both business, and personal, and still do. Racist bigot, bro, that a little harsh, even for you. This is a time for everyone to pull together in a reasonable manner that doesn't increase the pandemic or tank the economy.

---

Have to say, I am in the office 3 days a week, and regularly out in the world, and I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen without a mask inside public spaces since the mask mandate went into effect. So, I don't think it's nearly as obvious that "mercans" are as selfish a lot of people as you think they are.

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Yeah JR, let's go ahead and lockdown for two months and increase penalties for not wearing masks.

Also no travel.

If you object because it's hurting your wallet then you're a racist bigot.

---

now, doc....I'm pragmatic, and you aren not. I'm not saying lockdown, I go to the office everyday, support my local restaurants and bars. It's obvious that mercans are either are too selfish or arrogant to voluntarily wear a mask in public. Travel can wait. I've traveled extensively , both business, and personal, and still do. Racist bigot, bro, that a little harsh, even for you. This is a time for everyone to pull together in a reasonable manner that doesn't increase the pandemic or tank the economy.

---

Have to say, I am in the office 3 days a week, and regularly out in the world, and I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen without a mask inside public spaces since the mask mandate went into effect. So, I don't think it's nearly as obvious that "mercans" are as selfish a lot of people as you think they are.

---

I see most people in the city and office buildings in compliance. However, I live in a high rise and you'd be shocked by the number of people getting on and off the elevator without one. Also, last weekend, we went hunting in South Texas and virtually no-one in the gas station convenience stores wore masks including the clerks.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

---

Actually, I didn't cite to any evidence that lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis. You made that suggestion, without any evidence to back it up.

---

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

Once again, there is no evidence in your link that the lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis

---

It's your link. See the quoted passage above.

---

The quoted passage that says "might"? That's your evidence?

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

---

J.R. said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

J.R. said:

---

which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

---

There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

---

One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

---

Mothra said:

---

LTbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

Or people to wear them. I've seen fat dumbasses scream to high heaven about "muh rights!" and "how dare you!?!" in the middle of a Walgreens where, you know, other people where lined up to get their medicine. And I've seen ant-mask rallies. The utter stupidity of these delicate little snowflakes is incredible. That they're all being whiny little snowflakes is the height of irony.

---

The vast majority of people are wearing masks. As I said, I can count one one hand the number of times I've seen people in public spaces not wearing them since the mandate took effect months ago. That's not the reason the virus is spreading.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

---

More like 50-80%.

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

---

More like 50-80%.

---

Absolutely wrong.

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

J.R. said:

---

which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

---

There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

---

One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

---

I assume your friend is the only physician in America who has worn the mask outside of the clinical setting for the last several years.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

---

More like 50-80%.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

---

Actually, I didn't cite to any evidence that lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis. You made that suggestion, without any evidence to back it up.

---

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

Once again, there is no evidence in your link that the lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis

---

It's your link. See the quoted passage above.

---

The quoted passage that says "might"? That's your evidence?

---

No, that's your evidence. But there's plenty more if you'd like:

https://journalstar.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/health/do-masks-work-data-doctors-in-nebraska-suggest-they-do/article_3b1db916-0cf1-57f5-8228-054d367885c7.html

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

J.R. said:

---

which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

---

There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

---

One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

---

I assume your friend is the only physician in America who has worn the mask outside of the clinical setting for the last several years.

---

no, just an opinion of the smarted person I know. I've got no idea as medicine is way out of my lane as I'm sure it is with you unless you are a doctor, which clearly you are not.

---

Precisely and we never saw doctors, surgeons, or nurses wear masks outside the clinical setting prior to everyone losing their collective mind over Covid. That tells me what the medical community thinks of the efficacy of masks in stopping respiratory viruses outside the clinical setting.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

J.R. said:

---

which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

---

There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

---

One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

---

I assume your friend is the only physician in America who has worn the mask outside of the clinical setting for the last several years.

---

no, just an opinion of the smarted person I know. I've got no idea as medicine is way out of my lane as I'm sure it is with you unless you are a doctor, which clearly you are not.

---

Precisely and we never saw doctors, surgeons, or nurses wear masks outside the clinical setting prior to everyone losing their collective mind over Covid. That tells me what the medical community thinks of the efficacy of masks in stopping respiratory viruses outside the clinical setting.

---

Yeah, if you really want to tie your brain in knots I guess it could tell you that. Or maybe it's just telling you the stuff out there prior to covid was less dangerous, like everyone says.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

---

More like 50-80%.

---

Cite?

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

---

More like 50-80%.

---

Cite?

---

In a review of observational studies, an international research team estimates that surgical and comparable cloth masks are 67% effective in protecting the wearer.

In unpublished work, Linsey Marr, an environmental engineer at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, and her colleagues found that even a cotton T-shirt can block half of inhaled aerosols and almost 80% of exhaled aerosols measuring 2 m across. Once you get to aerosols of 45 m, almost any fabric can block more than 80% in both directions, she says.

Multiple layers of fabric, she adds, are more effective, and the tighter the weave, the better. Another study found that masks with layers of different materials - such as cotton and silk - could catch aerosols more efficiently than those made from a single material.

Benn worked with Danish engineers at her university to test their two-layered cloth mask design using the same criteria as for medical-grade ventilators. They found that their mask blocked only 1119% of aerosols down to the 0.3 m mark, according to Benn. But because most transmission is probably occurring through particles of at least 1 m, according to Marr and Jimenez, the actual difference in effectiveness between N95 and other masks might not be huge.

Eric Westman, a clinical researcher at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, North Carolina, co-authored an August study that demonstrated a method for testing mask effectiveness. His team used lasers and smartphone cameras to compare how well 14 different cloth and surgical face coverings stopped droplets while a person spoke. "I was reassured that a lot of the masks we use did work," he says, referring to the performance of cloth and surgical masks. But thin polyester-and-spandex neck gaiters - stretchable scarves that can be pulled up over the mouth and nose - seemed to actually reduce the size of droplets being released. "That could be worse than wearing nothing at all," Westman says.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

---

More like 50-80%.

---

Cite?

---

In a review of observational studies, an international research team estimates that surgical and comparable cloth masks are 67% effective in protecting the wearer.

In unpublished work, Linsey Marr, an environmental engineer at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, and her colleagues found that even a cotton T-shirt can block half of inhaled aerosols and almost 80% of exhaled aerosols measuring 2 m across. Once you get to aerosols of 45 m, almost any fabric can block more than 80% in both directions, she says.

Multiple layers of fabric, she adds, are more effective, and the tighter the weave, the better. Another study found that masks with layers of different materials - such as cotton and silk - could catch aerosols more efficiently than those made from a single material.

Benn worked with Danish engineers at her university to test their two-layered cloth mask design using the same criteria as for medical-grade ventilators. They found that their mask blocked only 1119% of aerosols down to the 0.3 m mark, according to Benn. But because most transmission is probably occurring through particles of at least 1 m, according to Marr and Jimenez, the actual difference in effectiveness between N95 and other masks might not be huge.

Eric Westman, a clinical researcher at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, North Carolina, co-authored an August study that demonstrated a method for testing mask effectiveness. His team used lasers and smartphone cameras to compare how well 14 different cloth and surgical face coverings stopped droplets while a person spoke. "I was reassured that a lot of the masks we use did work," he says, referring to the performance of cloth and surgical masks. But thin polyester-and-spandex neck gaiters - stretchable scarves that can be pulled up over the mouth and nose - seemed to actually reduce the size of droplets being released. "That could be worse than wearing nothing at all," Westman says.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Apparently we need better masks.

---

We can't invent one that will wear itself.

---

If only people not wearing them was the issue.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

According to your article it is: "Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19."

---

"Might."

Well, in that case, let's shut down all non-essential businesses for 5 months!

---

Are we talking about masks or lockdowns?

Our discussions are beginning to resemble the ones I had with Jinx about reproductive rights. Everything always came back to outlawing contraception, even if it had little or nothing to do with the issue at hand.

---

Point is, you have no evidence that lack of mask wearing has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently.

---

You posted evidence of that on the previous page. You reverted to the "lockdown" mantra when I pointed it out.

It's also not a huge leap to assume that if wearing masks helps, not wearing masks doesn't help.

---

Actually, I didn't cite to any evidence that lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis. You made that suggestion, without any evidence to back it up.

---

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w

---

Once again, there is no evidence in your link that the lack of mask wearing is the issue you claim it to be, or that it has contributed to the current crisis

---

It's your link. See the quoted passage above.

---

The quoted passage that says "might"? That's your evidence?

---

No, that's your evidence. But there's plenty more if you'd like:

https://journalstar.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/health/do-masks-work-data-doctors-in-nebraska-suggest-they-do/article_3b1db916-0cf1-57f5-8228-054d367885c7.html

---

Once again, I am not arguing that there is no data that says masks are effective. I think they are somewhat effective. I wear them in public for that reason, to make others feel more comfortable, and because it's the law.

I have asked what evidence you have that people not wearing masks has in any way contributed to the spread, or the spike we are seeing currently. There is nothing in that link that provides evidence supporting that conclusion.

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

J.R. said:

---

which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

---

There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

---

One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

---

I assume your friend is the only physician in America who has worn the mask outside of the clinical setting for the last several years.

---

no, just an opinion of the smarted person I know. I've got no idea as medicine is way out of my lane as I'm sure it is with you unless you are a doctor, which clearly you are not.

---

Precisely and we never saw doctors, surgeons, or nurses wear masks outside the clinical setting prior to everyone losing their collective mind over Covid. That tells me what the medical community thinks of the efficacy of masks in stopping respiratory viruses outside the clinical setting.

---

Yeah, if you really want to tie your brain in knots I guess it could tell you that. Or maybe it's just telling you the stuff out there prior to covid was less dangerous, like everyone says.

---

Yeah, Sam, we have never seen anything as dangerous as Covid. Polio and TB said hello.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

J.R. said:

---

which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

---

There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

---

One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

---

I assume your friend is the only physician in America who has worn the mask outside of the clinical setting for the last several years.

---

no, just an opinion of the smarted person I know. I've got no idea as medicine is way out of my lane as I'm sure it is with you unless you are a doctor, which clearly you are not.

---

Precisely and we never saw doctors, surgeons, or nurses wear masks outside the clinical setting prior to everyone losing their collective mind over Covid. That tells me what the medical community thinks of the efficacy of masks in stopping respiratory viruses outside the clinical setting.

---

Yeah, if you really want to tie your brain in knots I guess it could tell you that. Or maybe it's just telling you the stuff out there prior to covid was less dangerous, like everyone says.

---

Yeah, Sam, we have never seen anything as dangerous as Covid. Polio and TB said hello.

---

Polio hasn't said hello in a while. TB kills fewer Americans in a year than coronavirus did today.

---

DioNoZeus said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

---

More like 50-80%.

---

Cite?

---

In a review of observational studies, an international research team estimates that surgical and comparable cloth masks are 67% effective in protecting the wearer.

In unpublished work, Linsey Marr, an environmental engineer at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, and her colleagues found that even a cotton T-shirt can block half of inhaled aerosols and almost 80% of exhaled aerosols measuring 2 m across. Once you get to aerosols of 45 m, almost any fabric can block more than 80% in both directions, she says.

Multiple layers of fabric, she adds, are more effective, and the tighter the weave, the better. Another study found that masks with layers of different materials - such as cotton and silk - could catch aerosols more efficiently than those made from a single material.

Benn worked with Danish engineers at her university to test their two-layered cloth mask design using the same criteria as for medical-grade ventilators. They found that their mask blocked only 1119% of aerosols down to the 0.3 m mark, according to Benn. But because most transmission is probably occurring through particles of at least 1 m, according to Marr and Jimenez, the actual difference in effectiveness between N95 and other masks might not be huge.

Eric Westman, a clinical researcher at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, North Carolina, co-authored an August study that demonstrated a method for testing mask effectiveness. His team used lasers and smartphone cameras to compare how well 14 different cloth and surgical face coverings stopped droplets while a person spoke. "I was reassured that a lot of the masks we use did work," he says, referring to the performance of cloth and surgical masks. But thin polyester-and-spandex neck gaiters - stretchable scarves that can be pulled up over the mouth and nose - seemed to actually reduce the size of droplets being released. "That could be worse than wearing nothing at all," Westman says.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

---

Where's the study where they tested the effectiveness of the cloth masks worn below the nose, the effect of breathing/coughing through a saturated cloth mask, the effectiveness of soiled masks that aren't washed frequently enough, or the integrity of these cloth masks after 7 months of wear and tear?

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

J.R. said:

---

which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

---

There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

---

One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

---

I assume your friend is the only physician in America who has worn the mask outside of the clinical setting for the last several years.

---

no, just an opinion of the smarted person I know. I've got no idea as medicine is way out of my lane as I'm sure it is with you unless you are a doctor, which clearly you are not.

---

Precisely and we never saw doctors, surgeons, or nurses wear masks outside the clinical setting prior to everyone losing their collective mind over Covid. That tells me what the medical community thinks of the efficacy of masks in stopping respiratory viruses outside the clinical setting.

---

Yeah, if you really want to tie your brain in knots I guess it could tell you that. Or maybe it's just telling you the stuff out there prior to covid was less dangerous, like everyone says.

---

Yeah, Sam, we have never seen anything as dangerous as Covid. Polio and TB said hello.

---

Polio hasn't said hello in a while. TB kills fewer Americans in a year than coronavirus did today.

---

Yes, now it does. But it was a whole lot more deadly than Covid, basically a bad cold or flu, and we did not shut down the economy.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Carlos Safety said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

J.R. said:

---

which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

---

There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

---

One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

---

I assume your friend is the only physician in America who has worn the mask outside of the clinical setting for the last several years.

---

no, just an opinion of the smarted person I know. I've got no idea as medicine is way out of my lane as I'm sure it is with you unless you are a doctor, which clearly you are not.

---

Precisely and we never saw doctors, surgeons, or nurses wear masks outside the clinical setting prior to everyone losing their collective mind over Covid. That tells me what the medical community thinks of the efficacy of masks in stopping respiratory viruses outside the clinical setting.

---

Yeah, if you really want to tie your brain in knots I guess it could tell you that. Or maybe it's just telling you the stuff out there prior to covid was less dangerous, like everyone says.

---

Yeah, Sam, we have never seen anything as dangerous as Covid. Polio and TB said hello.

---

Polio hasn't said hello in a while. TB kills fewer Americans in a year than coronavirus did today.

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Yes, now it does. But it was a whole lot more deadly than Covid, basically a bad cold or flu, and we did not shut down the economy.

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Why would we? It's been in decline for 150+ years. The main point of shutdowns is to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed by the sudden spikes.

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DioNoZeus said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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DioNoZeus said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

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More like 50-80%.

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Cite?

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In a review of observational studies, an international research team estimates that surgical and comparable cloth masks are 67% effective in protecting the wearer.

In unpublished work, Linsey Marr, an environmental engineer at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, and her colleagues found that even a cotton T-shirt can block half of inhaled aerosols and almost 80% of exhaled aerosols measuring 2 m across. Once you get to aerosols of 45 m, almost any fabric can block more than 80% in both directions, she says.

Multiple layers of fabric, she adds, are more effective, and the tighter the weave, the better. Another study found that masks with layers of different materials - such as cotton and silk - could catch aerosols more efficiently than those made from a single material.

Benn worked with Danish engineers at her university to test their two-layered cloth mask design using the same criteria as for medical-grade ventilators. They found that their mask blocked only 1119% of aerosols down to the 0.3 m mark, according to Benn. But because most transmission is probably occurring through particles of at least 1 m, according to Marr and Jimenez, the actual difference in effectiveness between N95 and other masks might not be huge.

Eric Westman, a clinical researcher at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, North Carolina, co-authored an August study that demonstrated a method for testing mask effectiveness. His team used lasers and smartphone cameras to compare how well 14 different cloth and surgical face coverings stopped droplets while a person spoke. "I was reassured that a lot of the masks we use did work," he says, referring to the performance of cloth and surgical masks. But thin polyester-and-spandex neck gaiters - stretchable scarves that can be pulled up over the mouth and nose - seemed to actually reduce the size of droplets being released. "That could be worse than wearing nothing at all," Westman says.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

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Where's the study where they tested the effectiveness of the cloth masks worn below the nose, the effect of breathing/coughing through a saturated cloth mask, the effectiveness of soiled masks that aren't washed frequently enough, or the integrity of these cloth masks after 7 months of wear and tear?

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Factors like those would be built into any study of mask effectiveness at the population level.

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Exactly, which is why no study has ever demonstrated the effectiveness of cloth masks in decreasing viral transmission in the community.

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DioNoZeus said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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DioNoZeus said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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DioNoZeus said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

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More like 50-80%.

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Cite?

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In a review of observational studies, an international research team estimates that surgical and comparable cloth masks are 67% effective in protecting the wearer.

In unpublished work, Linsey Marr, an environmental engineer at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, and her colleagues found that even a cotton T-shirt can block half of inhaled aerosols and almost 80% of exhaled aerosols measuring 2 m across. Once you get to aerosols of 45 m, almost any fabric can block more than 80% in both directions, she says.

Multiple layers of fabric, she adds, are more effective, and the tighter the weave, the better. Another study found that masks with layers of different materials - such as cotton and silk - could catch aerosols more efficiently than those made from a single material.

Benn worked with Danish engineers at her university to test their two-layered cloth mask design using the same criteria as for medical-grade ventilators. They found that their mask blocked only 1119% of aerosols down to the 0.3 m mark, according to Benn. But because most transmission is probably occurring through particles of at least 1 m, according to Marr and Jimenez, the actual difference in effectiveness between N95 and other masks might not be huge.

Eric Westman, a clinical researcher at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, North Carolina, co-authored an August study that demonstrated a method for testing mask effectiveness. His team used lasers and smartphone cameras to compare how well 14 different cloth and surgical face coverings stopped droplets while a person spoke. "I was reassured that a lot of the masks we use did work," he says, referring to the performance of cloth and surgical masks. But thin polyester-and-spandex neck gaiters - stretchable scarves that can be pulled up over the mouth and nose - seemed to actually reduce the size of droplets being released. "That could be worse than wearing nothing at all," Westman says.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

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Where's the study where they tested the effectiveness of the cloth masks worn below the nose, the effect of breathing/coughing through a saturated cloth mask, the effectiveness of soiled masks that aren't washed frequently enough, or the integrity of these cloth masks after 7 months of wear and tear?

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Factors like those would be built into any study of mask effectiveness at the population level.

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Exactly, which is why no study has ever demonstrated the effectiveness of cloth masks in decreasing viral transmission in the community.

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Sure they have:

[T]he strongest evidence in favor of masks come from studies of real-world scenarios. "The most important thing are the epidemiologic data," said Rutherford. Because it would be unethical to assign people to not wear a mask during a pandemic, the epidemiological evidence has come from so-called "experiments of nature."

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.

Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.

Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

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And forgive me for not making sweeping public policy based on two small case reports.

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Carlos Safety said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Carlos Safety said:

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J.R. said:

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Carlos Safety said:

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J.R. said:

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Gold Tron said:

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J.R. said:

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which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

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There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

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One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

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I assume your friend is the only physician in America who has worn the mask outside of the clinical setting for the last several years.

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no, just an opinion of the smarted person I know. I've got no idea as medicine is way out of my lane as I'm sure it is with you unless you are a doctor, which clearly you are not.

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Precisely and we never saw doctors, surgeons, or nurses wear masks outside the clinical setting prior to everyone losing their collective mind over Covid. That tells me what the medical community thinks of the efficacy of masks in stopping respiratory viruses outside the clinical setting.

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Yeah, if you really want to tie your brain in knots I guess it could tell you that. Or maybe it's just telling you the stuff out there prior to covid was less dangerous, like everyone says.

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Yeah, Sam, we have never seen anything as dangerous as Covid. Polio and TB said hello.

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Polio hasn't said hello in a while. TB kills fewer Americans in a year than coronavirus did today.

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Let's talk about other diseases and causes of death then.

Cancer kills almost 600,000 people a year. 24% of those are lung cancer victims. And the leading cause of lung cancer is smoking. Are you for outlawing the tobacco industry? If not, why not?

More than 600,000 people a year die of heart disease. Those numbers are in large part due to Americans' eating habits. Are you in favor of outlawing fatty foods, processed foods and fast foods? If not, why not?

Approximately 40,000 people die from gunshot wounds each year. Are you for repealing the right of gun owners to own guns? If not, why not?

Approximately 80,000 people die of diabetes. Are you in favor of getting rid of foods with sugar? If not, why not?

Almost 40,000 people die in automobile accidents each year. Are you in favor of getting rid of automobile ownership?

Approximately 60,000 people die of the flu each year. And the vast majority of those deaths occur during flu season. Are you for shutting down the economy for a few months during flu season? If not, why not?

And approximately 300,000 people die of alcohol related disease and illness. Would you be in favor of banning alcohol sales?

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J.R. said:

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Gold Tron said:

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J.R. said:

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which is the highest of any state. It's getting worse, folks, not better. Certainly not a hoax. Wearing a mask is probably a good idea when around people. Listen to the science.

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There is zero evidence that a mask mitigates or provides personal protection against a respiratory virus 0.125 microns in size. If it makes you feel safe then great. I only wear one because I don't want to be a jerk. Go read the studies.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

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One of my best friends who is a Harvard MD and PHD in Immunology differs.

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Any mask less than an N95 is of little benefit .

Cloth/paper masks (20% reduction max ) is better than nothing but not if you are determined to mix around crowds of people.

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More like 50-80%.

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Absolutely wrong.

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Source?

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