LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Booray said:

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whiterock said:

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Booray said:

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whiterock said:

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Booray said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Texasjeremy said:

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https://texascpac.org/2021/03/02/texan-for-true-conservatives-announces-support-for-texas-independence-referendum/

Texans for True Conservatives PAC announces support for Texas Independence Referendum

On the 185th anniversary of Texas Independence, the Texans for True Conservatives PAC has announced that it will be supporting The Texas Independence Referendum Act (H.B. 1359) filed in the Texas Legislature by Republican Kyle Biedermann from Texas House District 73.

"Texans believe Washington, D.C. is irrevocably broken and corrupt. For too many years, federal overreach into the average Texan's liberty and freedoms have gone unchecked. In recent polling, the evidence is clear that the average Texan has reached the point where the overwhelming majority believe that Texas and Texans would be better served if Texas were to negotiate a 'Brexit-styled' negotiated separation," stated Texans for True Conservatives PAC founder and director, David Thomas Roberts.

H.B. 1359 does not call for the immediate separation from the United States but asks the legislature to place a referendum on the ballot next November for Texans to determine whether Texas should once again become an independent Republic.

"This is just the first step in a long process to achieve a new Republic of Texas. Even those legislators who may disagree with separation should not cloud their judgment whether Texans have the inalienable and God-given right to self-determination," added Roberts.

On the question of whether Texas could survive as an independent nation, Texas's GDP is larger than Russia, Canada, Korea, Mexico, Spain, and Australia and would rank as the 10th largest in the world using 2019 GDP data.

Asked about the legal question of a negotiated separation, Roberts said, "Texas independence is not a legal question; it's a political question. We've seen how political forces have changed the global landscape, sometimes seemingly overnight. From the fall of the Berlin wall to recent successful Brexit question in Great Britain."

"Texans feel disenfranchised. A final straw for many Texans occurred when Texas' electoral college votes were effectively canceled out by other states' highly questionable voter integrity processes. Additional disappointment in the Supreme Court ruling claiming Texas has 'no standing' in that cancellation of their electoral college votes have incensed many. To add insult, Texans are staring at funding financially irresponsible broken Democratic cities and states under the guise of Covid-19 relief with their hard-earned tax dollars. Texans have simply had enough of D.C. and the federal behemoth," added Roberts.

Our PAC will be massing the support of Texas legislators during this session. The PAC has a conservative pledge that certain candidates and legislators have taken and ultimately determines the gravity of support for (or against) current legislators. We fully expect our legislators who have taken the Conservative Pledge to fulfill their commitment to the ultimate resolution to Texas sovereignty by signing on and voting for H.B. 1359 and to sponsor a companion bill in the Texas Senate."

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There's no basis for the U.S. government to even start to negotiate or discuss with Texas its withdrawal from the Union. It's well established the Union is indivisible. HB 1359 will die in committee.

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The purpose of HB 1359 is to open a discussion within the state about ALL the potential barriers to succession in the event it should ever be seen as an option.

Thanks for listing one of the potential barriers. It sounds like you're onboard.

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We need the Texas legislature to authorize us to begin a discussion??

I thought the First Amendment allowed us to discuss ideas, even colossally stupid ideas like this one.

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Well, Critical Race Theory is a particularly stupid idea as well, and it's all the rage in polite society. If the left can have it's stupid ideas, why can't everybody else indulge in their own ideas? This particular stupid idea has the benefit of harming literally no one, unlike CRT which is pure poison.

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The Texas Legislature is not considering a bill to open discussion on CRT.

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not a very good dodge, as far as dodges go....

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Its not a dodge. Your position is the dodge.

The point I am responding to is that the purpose of the bill is to allow us to discuss secession's pros and cons. We don't need a bill for that and we don't need a bill to discuss CRT's pros and cons. But apparently there is a bill for the first, but not the second.

Are you for secession? Do you think there is any chance it would happen? Do you believe we need a bill to "open the discussion" about the issue?

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Are you always in favor of keeping people in the dark?

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Enough people were in the dark a few weeks ago that I'd think a reality check was due.

https://tnm.me/texit/government/how-will-texit-give-us-better-government-in-texas/

We have our own issues of bad governance in Austin. However, most of what is happening in our Capitol has flourished because of our continued membership in the United States.

Compliance
Most Texans aren't aware that the vast majority of legislative wrangling in Texas government takes place over issues that are not of our making. In this recent session, nearly half of all bills filed directly referenced federal law, federal regulations, federal agencies, or federal court rulings. That doesn't include bills that were filed in response to those where they weren't directly referenced but were filed to place Texas in compliance with one or more of those.

We can't even begin to count the bills that were filed solely to capture federal money. You know, the federal money that first came out of your pocket and then, after a 40% "membership fee" has been deducted, is dangled in front of the Texas Legislature as a reward for their loyalty.

Then you get into the areas of education, transportation, and social services which, to some degree, have their policy directions set in relation to or because of federal law or mandate.

Being outside of the United States means that we could set our own direction and create policies that are a perfect fit for us. If a policy doesn't work, we can scrap it and create a new one. It would be our decision and our decision alone.

Aspiration
Lest we forget, many in Texas government treat elected office like tryouts for the Federal Government. Granted, some get in and get comfortable. But others are like contestants on American Idol. They hope that they are good enough to get to the next round.

Oftentimes the policy decisions and the direction of the debate are dictated by how much of an audience they will get outside of Texas. They jockey just to get an interview on FoxNews or MSNBC, because deep in their heart-of-hearts, they want their 15 minutes of fame in a larger market. Being known in a larger market means that they can run for the US House or Senate or even President or jockey for a cabinet position in the White House.

In fact, our Lieutenant Governor missed the opening day of this legislative session because he'd been summoned to the White House to help with a speech. Effectively, the person holding the most powerful elected position in Texas chose to do the job of a federal staffer over executing his duty to Texans. This doesn't seem like something a person elected to serve the people of Texas would do. Rather, it looks like someone angling for a job on the federal level.

Standing as an independent nation, Texas is as good as it gets for these politicians. There are no tryouts for elected positions beyond Texas. They make it good here or they get thrown out. While they are here, and in office, they had better do the best job that they can because there is no one else to satisfy but the people of Texas.

Distraction
Ask anyone on the street right now this question.

"What do you think about what Congress is doing right now?"

The answer will generally lean toward disapproval followed by something about healthcare or taxes. At a very minimum it will include something very specific. They may namedrop some distasteful federal politician. Perhaps you'll even get the name of their Congressman and one or both of our Senators. The point is that even the least political have some idea of what's happening on the federal level.

Now ask the same person this question.

"What do you think about the property tax reform being debated in the Texas Legislature right now?"

You are likely to get a blank stare, a quizzical look, or be met with another question.

"What do you mean?"

Texans are distracted. We are inundated with news out of Washington, D.C. through every conceivable medium. We are conditioned to direct our attention and, consequently, our outrage toward the Potomac. Even the most politically active among Texans find themselves in this trap. Since we have finite time, resources, and attention spans, while Texans focus on the ills of the Federal Government, state and local government runs wild.

Those of you who stay engaged on state and local issues know the result of this. Low engagement by your fellow citizens gives the elected officials a trapdoor for bad behavior. They can simply brush off your issue because they "haven't heard from many of my constituents."

This distraction plays out at the polls as well. With everyone focused on the federal government, even to the point of listing federal offices at the top of the ballot, little to no attention is paid to the down ballot races. In addition, general dissatisfaction with the federal government leads to disillusioned voters who simply give up and don't vote.

With Texas out of the union, Texans remove one additional layer of government and the distraction it brings, and are left with the government that is closest to home the one in Austin and the one in their own backyard. Imagine if folks paid attention to those governments like they are glued to the the D.C. drama. Imagine how people would feel about voting if they actually could make a difference and be involved.

Dollars
Then we get to the simplest issue of all. Politics runs on money. You can hate it. You can deny it. However, it's the way things work.

As part of the United States, political contributions that flow into Texas are treated just the same as contributions from me and you. When Joe Crony gets into office, the coffers open up and money flows in from political action committees all over the United States. Every special interest from the other 49 states starts writing checks to curry favor and keep "their man" in office.

These contributions from outside of Texas give a decided advantage to incumbents and a major disadvantage to those that would challenge the political establishment.

When Texit happens, that comes to a screeching halt because they are now foreign and Texas does not and never will allow political contributions from foreign entities. Post-Texit, egregious politicians won't be able to stump for contributions in California or New York. We get a more level playing field and more opportunity for turnover in the Texas government.

Independence
Again, while we sympathize with the concerns of our fellow Texans about the state of governance in Austin, there is no doubt that removing the federal government out of the equation produces better government at home. Independence gives us an opportunity to create a government in our image, that is responsive to our needs, meets our challenges, and is the size that we want. Independence gives us a shot a self-government that we have never had and puts our destiny in our hands and our hands alone.

https://tnm.me/texit/us-texas-relations/will-the-federal-government-use-military-force-to-stop-texit/

One cannot reasonably assume that the policy of the federal government from the mid-19th century would be the policy of the federal government two decades into the 21st. There is no current federal policy regarding a State leaving the Union. However, there is current federal policy regarding states and territories leaving currently established political and economic institutions. Those policies involve neutrality or the use of military action in support of self-determination.

Imagine the scenario. Fifteen million Texans have gone to the polls and voted in a free, fair, and open referendum, conducted under the laws of the State of Texas, and have chosen, by a majority vote, to leave the Union and assert Texas' status as a free and independent self-governing nation-state. Historically, around the world, voter turnout for independence referenda is 85 to 90 percent. Taking the low end, that would mean that 12.75 million Texans would cast their vote in the referendum. Figuring the lowest possible threshold for an independence victory, approximately 6.4 million Texans would vote in favor of independence.

If the federal government opts for a military solution, how would it handle the 6.4 million Texans who voted in favor of independence? Prison? Extermination? What would the justification be for any actions taken against Texans whose sole crime was voting for self-determination in a fair, free, and open referendum? When exactly would this military intervention occur? Would they do it before a vote on Texit to prevent the people having their say? Would they wait until after the results of the vote were tallied and the results announced in favor of independence? Or would they wait until after Texas began the process of extracting itself from the federal system and began asserting its role as a nation among nations?

Under close scrutiny, it becomes apparent that the federal government will not move to stop Texit once it's been decided by the people of Texas and they most certainly won't use the military. It's just too impractical.

First, there would be little to no public support for military action against Texans who voted to leave the Union. A 2011 IBOPE Zogby poll found that 43 percent of respondents believed that States had justification for leaving the Union. For those who consider themselves conservatives, that number jumps to 65 percent. Military action against Texas, in the absence of some morally reprehensible act, would require a strong consensus from the remaining States and the people in those States. The strong liberal States would likely fall on the side of letting Texas go. The strong conservative States would be split on the issue but would largely be supportive of the basic principle of self-government. With numbers like these, a consensus seems implausible.

The use of military force would bring a swift condemnation from the international community and would damage international relations for years to come. Some countries would likely impose economic sanctions on the United States until the civilian government of Texas was restored and the results of the independence vote respected. It would also cause a tectonic shift in international policy related to the support of democratic institutions, essentially delegitimizing any efforts made by the United States past, present, and future.

You would have to believe that troops would obey an order to fire on millions of Texas civilians and their leaders whose only crime was invoking their right of self-government. With approximately 170,000 Texans serving in the United States armed forces, it would be difficult to get compliance. The ultimate irony is that any Texan in the United States military who took up arms against the lawfully elected government of Texas or its citizens would be guilty of treason under Article 1 Section 22 of the Texas Constitution.

A 2009 poll from the aforementioned Zogby showed a large number of military personnel and their families believed that States had an absolute right to leave the Union. As published in Forbes, "42% of members of the armed forces and 41% of people who have a family member active in the armed forces agree secession is a right" The fact that 42 percent view it as a right carries weight. It means they view it as a fundamental freedom, like the freedom of speech or the freedom of religion. Just as it is unlikely that the military would act against those rights when exercised by the civilian population, it is equally unlikely that they would act against Texit.

The most likely scenario, if an order of this nature was given, would be outright disobedience from the highest levels of the military all the way down to the enlisted ranks by at least 42 percent of the military, if not all. If some component of the military followed through on the order, it would likely trigger a domino effect where other States, outraged by the disregard for the political will of the people of Texas, would skip to the end of the process and unilaterally declare independence. Texas might be the first to leave but, if the federal government used the military to suppress the result, it certainly would not be the last.

Although the lack of public support and impracticality of military action are significant factors, the real reason the federal government won't stop Texas from leaving the Union is one of the most biggest drivers of federal policyeconomics.

Economies hate disruption. Texit would no doubt be disruptive, but it comes down to what is more disruptive. Ordering military intervention would be economically disruptive and would create shockwaves throughout the U.S. and global economies. Carrying out any type of military intervention would be even worse. The best course of action for the United States would be to mitigate disruption in the most practical way it canat the negotiating table. It is the most practical choice open to the federal government in dealing with a successful Texit vote.

To illustrate the oversized role that practicality plays in this arena, one only needs to look at the statements from the federal government on Brexit. In his now infamous visit to the U.K., President Obama told the British people that, if they voted to leave the European Union, the United States would place the U.K. at the "back of the queue" in negotiating a trade deal. The British people voted to leave the European Union anyway. Now the federal government is currently at the table with the U.K. laying the groundwork for a trade deal. When faced with the choice of irrationally shunning the world's fifth largest economy, with a GDP only $1 trillion greater than Texas or rationally executing a trade deal, the federal government chose the practical route.

It is far easier to negotiate a free trade agreement with a Texas that's on its way out the door than it is to militarily occupy its capital in Austin. It is easier to negotiate a currency union with Texas than it is to deal with the possibility of massive insubordination in your military. With a negotiated separation, the federal government has the opportunity to show that it believes in the principles that it has espoused around the world for the last 70 years. It is better to keep goods and services flowing than to have them come to a dead stop. Forced integration into the Union at the point of a gun invites international condemnation and the loss of credibility on the international stage for the next 70 years.

https://tnm.me/texit/business-commerce-trade/how-will-trade-work-with-the-united-states/

Trade is the major issue that has the clearest path to resolution with the United States and it is one of the most important. International trade is a major driver of the Texas economy. In fact, Texas exports products to virtually every country in the world with total value of exports to just the top 25 totaling between $225 and $285 billion every single year. These are just the figures for products that originate in Texas and doesn't include imports that flow through our ports and travel across our roads every day. Trade is major.

It is important to examine how trade works between Texas and the rest of the States and then see if there is a fair path to approximate that relationship now that gives Texas some control over the situation.

Currently, Texas is restricted in external trade by the prohibitions on States in Article 1 Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution, fully vesting that authority in the U.S. Congress. Consequently, States have little to no control over the flow of goods and services across their borders and there are certainly no trade tariffs between the States. Within the United States, member States have tariff-free trade and a singular external trade policy. Not accounting for the common currency, this economic relationship between the States is the textbook definition of a customs union. Some would argue that the United States is a fully integrated economic union, but the States retain a large degree of control over their individual fiscal policies, meaning that the United States is not a true economic union.

It is important to note that, other than the United States, there are 13 other customs unions around the world comprising virtually all of Central America, South America, nearly all of Europe, and portions of the old Soviet Union, and major blocs of countries in Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. In these customs unions, independent self-governing countries conduct trade in the same way as the States of the United States without being in a political union.

The clearest and easiest way to ensure that there is absolutely no disruption of trade between the U.S. and an independent Texas is for the two to enter into a customs union, but as equals. Anyone who thinks this would be unusual or far-fetched simply doesn't understand the way trade works. Most people believe that the only free trade agreement the U.S. is a part of is the multilateral North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) between the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. It's not. The U.S. also has free trade agreements with Australia, Bahrain, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Israel, Jordan, Korea, Morocco, Nicaragua, Oman, Panama, Peru, and Singapore, all of which have a smaller GDP than Texas.

A negotiated trade agreement between Texas and the U.S., either through a customs union or a free trade agreement, would ensure continued tariff-free trade between the two. Any agreement should ensure continued access to rail lines, airports, seaports, and highways for the transportation of goods.

If the negotiated agreement is a customs union, the work is done. If, however, the U.S. or Texas opts for a free trade agreement instead, Texas would retain the freedom to pursue bilateral or multilateral trade agreements with any other nations without restriction. That includes negotiating trade agreements with countries that already have free trade agreements with the U.S., ensuring a continuity of trade policy.

In the event that Texas and the U.S. fail to come to terms, Texas could still trade with the U.S. using standard World Trade Organization tariff schedules and trade rules that have already been agreed to by the U.S. In short, Texas could take the tariff tables submitted to the WTO by the U.S., scratch out its name, write in ours, and submit it. This again leaves Texas the freedom to hammer out its own trade policies and trade with every country in the world, much like we are already doing, with one exceptionit will be on our terms. In short, no matter how trade negotiations go with the U.S., Texas will be just fine.

The Venn diagram would show a large overlap of people who believe Texit could happen with those who believed martial law would be imposed on January 6 to stop the pedophiles.

Booray said:

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The Venn diagram would show a large overlap of people who believe Texit could happen with those who believed martial law would be imposed on January 6 to stop the pedophiles.

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Which reminds me, given your style of debate:

Have you stopped raping your cat yet, yes or no?

https://tnm.me/texit/referendum/what-will-happen-immediately-after-a-texit-vote/

Contrary to the doomsday predictions of those who oppose Texit, in the immediate aftermath of an affirmative Texas independence vote, things continue as they have until they don't. The mail gets delivered. The trash gets picked up. Goods flow. Money is earned and spent. Literally, nothing changes until it does.

While this may be a surprise to some, their surprise stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of the independence process. Independence is not a single act embodied in a referendum. Independence is a state of being. The referendum is the first step in the process, an expression of political will that kicks off the process of becoming independent. It is, however, an important step. Such an expression of political will must be respected. It demands action. However, that action must be balanced with care and caution as Texas enters the next phase of negotiation and transition.

There should be one single aim for relations with the United States in the immediate aftermath of Texit, minimizing disruption. While those opposed to Texit would love to think that disruption cannot be avoided or even mitigated as Texas leaves the Union, they are dead wrong. In fact, the tools necessary to effect a speedy, efficient, and minimally disruptive Texit are already at our disposal.

Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

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No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

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1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

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The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

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"The grievance culture the American independence cult relies on is truly pathetic. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live in a time and place, under the protection of the British Empire and its trading system, where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived."

-Some Whig/Tory MP fop from North London in 1775.

Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

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Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

quash said:

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Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

It can be done. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

If not then there will be no point. Texas will continue to move toward being California.

Redbrickbear said:

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quash said:

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Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

quash said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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quash said:

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Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

If it's going to be a peaceful expulsion, I assume you're going to compensate everyone for property left behind?

How do you guard against a fifth column on an ongoing basis? Ideological purity tests? More expulsions every so many years?

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

If it's going to be a peaceful expulsion, I assume you're going to compensate everyone for property left behind?

How do you guard against a fifth column on an ongoing basis? Ideological purity tests? More expulsions every so many years?

---

Of course you would have compensate people for their property.

If you want to look a polices that would defend the long term nature of the state.

Look at New York and California. They have pursed incredibility successful policies that have forced their conservative populations to flee.

You would have to think outside the box a little but I'm sure if NY-Cal can figure it out Texas can reengineer the process

Perhaps a law that demands every citizen must own a gun?
A massive tax on yoga studios?
Close down all Starbucks and all overpriced a** sniffing craft coffee shops?
Instead of CRT anti-white studies in school have unabashed pro-white studies in school?

You have to make living in the State as unpleasant as possible for leftists.

Be positive...it can be done.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

Of course you would have compensate people for their property.

If you want to look a polices that would defend the long term nature of the state.

Look at New York and California. They have pursed incredibility successful policies that have forced their conservative populations to flee.

You would have to think outside the box a little but I'm sure if NY-Cal can figure it out Texas can reengineer the process

Perhaps a law that demands every citizen must own a gun?
A massive tax on yoga studios?
Close down all Starbucks and all overpriced a** sniffing craft coffee shops?
Instead of CRT anti-white studies in school have unabashed pro-white studies in school?

You have to make living in the State as unpleasant as possible for leftists.

Be positive...it can be done.

---

So we're pretty much past the idea of free markets and constitutional government at this point.

---

Texiklans unite!

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

If it's going to be a peaceful expulsion, I assume you're going to compensate everyone for property left behind?

How do you guard against a fifth column on an ongoing basis? Ideological purity tests? More expulsions every so many years?

---

Of course you would have compensate people for their property.

If you want to look a polices that would defend the long term nature of the state.

Look at New York and California. They have pursed incredibility successful policies that have forced their conservative populations to flee.

You would have to think outside the box a little but I'm sure if NY-Cal can figure it out Texas can reengineer the process

Perhaps a law that demands every citizen must own a gun?
A massive tax on yoga studios?
Close down all Starbucks and all overpriced a** sniffing craft coffee shops?
Instead of CRT anti-white studies in school have unabashed pro-white studies in school?

You have to make living in the State as unpleasant as possible for leftists.

Be positive...it can be done.

---

So we're pretty much past the idea of free markets and constitutional government at this point.

---

What time period are you living in exactly?

The American empire has been waging foreign wars for 20 years without the approval of the people.

The government is trillions of dollars in debt.

The intelligence services spied on the President of the United States and worked to impeach him.

You can be fired from your job for saying that there are only two genders.

This summer we had 70 days of riots that lead to the 40 deaths and $2 billion in damages. Most large city prosecutors came out and said they would NOT charge or prosecute the rioters.

For over a year the government has prevented kids from going to school and imposed unconstitutional lockdowns on the civilian population.

We are well past "free markets and muh constitutional norms"

You are in the middle of an ideological war and you had best open your eyes to that fact.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

If it's going to be a peaceful expulsion, I assume you're going to compensate everyone for property left behind?

How do you guard against a fifth column on an ongoing basis? Ideological purity tests? More expulsions every so many years?

---

Of course you would have compensate people for their property.

If you want to look a polices that would defend the long term nature of the state.

Look at New York and California. They have pursed incredibility successful policies that have forced their conservative populations to flee.

You would have to think outside the box a little but I'm sure if NY-Cal can figure it out Texas can reengineer the process

Perhaps a law that demands every citizen must own a gun?
A massive tax on yoga studios?
Close down all Starbucks and all overpriced a** sniffing craft coffee shops?
Instead of CRT anti-white studies in school have unabashed pro-white studies in school?

You have to make living in the State as unpleasant as possible for leftists.

Be positive...it can be done.

---

So we're pretty much past the idea of free markets and constitutional government at this point.

---

What time period are you living in exactly?

The American empire has been waging foreign wars for 20 years without the approval of the people.

The government is trillions of dollars in debt.

The intelligence services spied on the President of the United States and worked to impeach him.

You can be fired from your job for saying that there are only two genders.

This summer we had 70 days of riots that lead to the 40 deaths and $2 billion in damages. Most large city prosecutors came out and said they would NOT charge or prosecute the rioters.

For over a year the government has prevented kids from going to school and imposed unconstitutional lockdowns on the civilian population.

We are well past "free markets and muh constitutional norms"

You are in the middle of an ideological war and you had best open your eyes to that fact.

---

Supposedly the conservative remedy for leftist overreach is to reaffirm constitutional values. No doubt that's the theory on which Texit would be sold to the public. I'm just clarifying that what you propose is the opposite. Not equality under the law, but an ideological state for right-wingers similar to what leftists want for leftists.

---

With 50 million people having come here since the destruction of our immigration system in 1965.

Compounded with the fact the most liberals admit they want to "fundamentally" change the nature of American government and "amend the idea of free speech".

Also, with the fact that large numbers of millennials and Gen Z's identify themselves as socialists or out right Marxists.

I wonder what constituency you think is out there for country club libertarian "Muh constitutional norms"

The America of 1980 is dead and gone.

The USSA of 2050 is more likely to vote away your property, crush your freedom and speech, and kill you than it is to return to "bed rock small gov. policy and tax cuts"

Well, at least this allows me to clearly identify the ******* (as if I needed any further help) that post here on 365.

Good grief! I never figured we had this many spineless pansy-asses lurking here in 365.

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

some people really struggle with the idea of freedom.

Parody account?

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

If it's going to be a peaceful expulsion, I assume you're going to compensate everyone for property left behind?

How do you guard against a fifth column on an ongoing basis? Ideological purity tests? More expulsions every so many years?

---

The Axis powers had to answer the same questions.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

If it's going to be a peaceful expulsion, I assume you're going to compensate everyone for property left behind?

How do you guard against a fifth column on an ongoing basis? Ideological purity tests? More expulsions every so many years?

---

Of course you would have compensate people for their property.

If you want to look a polices that would defend the long term nature of the state.

Look at New York and California. They have pursed incredibility successful policies that have forced their conservative populations to flee.

You would have to think outside the box a little but I'm sure if NY-Cal can figure it out Texas can reengineer the process

Perhaps a law that demands every citizen must own a gun?
A massive tax on yoga studios?
Close down all Starbucks and all overpriced a** sniffing craft coffee shops?
Instead of CRT anti-white studies in school have unabashed pro-white studies in school?

You have to make living in the State as unpleasant as possible for leftists.

Be positive...it can be done.

---

So we're pretty much past the idea of free markets and constitutional government at this point.

---

What time period are you living in exactly?

The American empire has been waging foreign wars for 20 years without the approval of the people.

The government is trillions of dollars in debt.

The intelligence services spied on the President of the United States and worked to impeach him.

You can be fired from your job for saying that there are only two genders.

This summer we had 70 days of riots that lead to the 40 deaths and $2 billion in damages. Most large city prosecutors came out and said they would NOT charge or prosecute the rioters.

For over a year the government has prevented kids from going to school and imposed unconstitutional lockdowns on the civilian population.

We are well past "free markets and muh constitutional norms"

You are in the middle of an ideological war and you had best open your eyes to that fact.

---

Supposedly the conservative remedy for leftist overreach is to reaffirm constitutional values. No doubt that's the theory on which Texit would be sold to the public. I'm just clarifying that what you propose is the opposite. Not equality under the law, but an ideological state for right-wingers similar to what leftists want for leftists.

---

With 50 million people having come here since the destruction of our immigration system in 1965.

Compounded with the fact the most liberals admit they want to "fundamentally" change the nature of American government and "amend the idea of free speech".

Also, with the fact that large numbers of millennials and Gen X's identify themselves as socialists or out right Marxists.

I wonder what constituency you think is out there for country club libertarian "Muh constitutional norms"

The America of 1980 is dead and gone.

The USSA of 2050 is more likely to vote away your property, crush your freedom and speech, and kill you than it is to return to "bed rock small gov. policy and tax cuts"

---

What's to stop the New Texan Reich from doing just the same?

---

Good point.

I see no limiting principal on the Left anymore and thus any right wing movement that might arise to counter it would also seemly be just as unattached to any limiting principal.

Redbrickbear said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

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Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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Booray said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

some people really struggle with the idea of freedom.

---

It's certainly half spit balling and half Joking.
But I just don't think that many people in the modern US like freedom anymore.

That's sad. The country I was born into seems to be dying or at least fading away quickly.

The covid lock downs the acceptance of mass riots this past year seem to prove that most people will continue on toward a left leaning authoritarian future.

---

And what about acceptance of the mass riot on the Capitol by the right, seeking to overturn government and make Trump essentially an authoritarian ruler? There is little difference.

TexasScientist said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

quash said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Booray said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Libs:

TEXAS has 30,000,000 million people and the 11th largest economy in the world.

But even though it has a larger population than 70 other countries....and is physically larger than 37 others.

It just can' handle being a free and independent nation.

---

No one on here is saying anything like that.

First, the United States of America is not going to agree to secession in any way, shape or form. Ever. So it is a non-starter.

Second, if it happened Texas would get by but it would hurt the economy tremendously.

Third, a huge percentage of Texans love their country and have no desire to see it dismembered.

---

1st: Almost no Imperial power ever agrees to the independence of its tax slaves. Didn't happen in 1776 or in 1836 or in 1861. Or in fact in most other countless and other eras of history. You want independence you have to struggle for it. Some times with force some times through peaceful agitation.... aka the South American nations, ask the people of India, ask the former Yugoslav states, the former USSR states, and the African nations.

2nd: Not really, the USA and rest of the world would still trade with Texas. I mean you could make that same argument if in a hypothetical world Canada was part of the USA and wanted to leave...."muh it would hurt the economy"...but Canada would do just fine in the long run. Economic systems can and do adapt always. And Texas has the business environment and natural resources other nations want and need.

3. Your personal feelings for the bloated and declining American empire and its corrupt and evil ruling class not withstanding. The elite of the USA hate you, your culture, and your history, and will continue to hate you going forward. Your bootlicking for them while touching is pathetic.

---

The grievance culture the Texas independence cult relies on is the truly pathetic thing here. It is mind boggling that the supporters of this movement can't see that they live n a time and place where they are blessed well beyond virtually every human who has ever lived.

But on substance, number 1 is all you need to know. If there is no agreement, it is not going to happen.

---

Agreement? Forget USA agreement, Texit won't have chance because Oak Cliff and the Park Cities don't agree. Austin and Alpine? Houston and Harrison County?

We are a very diverse state, much like the US. A new Republic of Texas would be a mini US complete with Qanon and Antifa and everything else that both unites and divides us. Including a bunch of folks who don't know good when they see it and just want new.

---

. But yes it will no doubt require the peaceful expulsion of Leftist elements outside the borders the Texas Republic.

---

Try it. I dare you.

Also, thanks for making my point.

---

Dare what?

Have a population exchange?

Well Texas independence itself is a pie in the sky dream....but if your going to do you have to take step to insure its success and survival.

A leftist traitorous 5th column would always be a threat to the national life of a independent Texas Republic.

---

some people really struggle with the idea of freedom.

---

It's certainly half spit balling and half Joking.
But I just don't think that many people in the modern US like freedom anymore.

That's sad. The country I was born into seems to be dying or at least fading away quickly.

The covid lock downs the acceptance of mass riots this past year seem to prove that most people will continue on toward a left leaning authoritarian future.

---

And what about acceptance of the mass riot on the Capitol by the right, seeking to overturn government and make Trump essentially an authoritarian ruler? There is little difference.

---

Pal, you left the road and plowed through the guardrail when you fell back on your Trump obsession.

Let it go.

Texas doesn't need to secede. Eventually, it would just in end up in the same exact spot we are now.

The United States just needs....

1) To kick out California and New York. Go ahead and throw in Oregon too.

or

2) Term limits for ALL politicians every where all the time. Same goes for the bureaucrats that have sucked the life out of this country by being there 40 years... term limits for all appointees.

Problem solved. Either way.

Rawhide said:

---

Texas doesn't need to secede. Eventually, it would just in end up in the same exact spot we are now.

The United States just needs....

1) To kick out California and New York. Go ahead and throw in Oregon too.

or

2) Term limits for ALL politicians every where all the time. Same goes for the bureaucrats that have sucked the life out of this country by being there 40 years... term limits for all appointees.

Problem solved. Either way.

---

Once you go full authoritarian all kinds of solutions are on the table.

Never go full authoritarian.

The one thing in common between the riots by the Left and the Jan 6 incident, is that Trump was not at fault for any of them.