saykay said:

---

George Truett said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

George Truett said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Canon said:

---

BearN said:

---

saykay said:

---

Canon said:

---

If someone (anyone) decides to take the time to wade through the incoherent word salad above, I'd appreciate both an English interpretation and an executive summary. Thanks in advance.

---

Since you're 'new' here, I'm generous with my 'first one is free' copy/pastes of an exact excerpt:

The social condition of people is often mentioned in the Bible. For example, the book of Leviticus is all about the law, the right, fair, just living/existence amongst all people on earth. The Bible speaks out against 'corrupt scales' in the market/economy, exploiting the poor by charging exorbitant interest rates/usury, acquiring multiple properties at the expense of the poor/unjust housing, exploiting widows and orphans i.e. misuse of power, welcoming immigrants & treating them well, paying day laborers fairly & quickly and the list goes on, and treating others with love and grace above all else, just to name a few of our responsibilities in the short 80+ years or so we spend on this earth.

So, if the Bible is true, social justice, equality and our role in addressing it, in fact are a concern to God (Hat tip: OldBear & others still questioning that Biblical reference).

And for those not yet convinced, Jesus cared as much as God instructed us to on earth in his reality... He healed people, fed people, embraced the outcast & crossed racial / ethnic barriers, AND he defended women & children in a culture in a time when that was even less popular to do so than it is today on the free boards.

---

Tying this back to a few posts above, on your prompting, I've been reading thru Leviticus looking for the part where God commands Moses to include healthcare benefits to homosexual spouses for the Children of Israel. Can you tell me what chapter that is in? I only see a few references to homosexuals in Leviticus, but they don't address this topic specifically.

---

It's enjoyable to see someone with so little to add parroting the arguments they have heard from someone else parroting another person, still. None of them ever reaching an analysis more thoughtful than a puddle at a men's urinal.

These topics have been covered here recently and the twisted left wing vision of 'social justice' has been soundly and roundly dispensed with. As copy and paste is the order of the day...

Quote:

---

Justice (MISHPAT or MISPAT) and Righteousness (SEDEK or TZEDAKAH or TSEDEQ) are paired so often in the bible precisely because they are not the same thing. Justice is most often a judicial/legal/procedural concept within the Bible, related most often to getting what one deserves. Where it references the poor, it is nearly always referring to equality under that law and delivered as prohibitions on oppression of same. Justice toward the poor as conceived of in the Bible is a negative obligation to not oppress, which includes equal treatment under the law and equal treatment with regard to things like delivering wages on time and so forth. That doesn't differ from the English concept of justice and it doesn't include government-imposed wealth redistribution.

Where charitable giving is prescribed, it's generally under the rubric of Righteousness (SEDEK) or Mercy (HESED) as in Micah 6:8. In any charitable sense, MISHPAT is really only used when referring to what God did for the Hebrews (Deut 10:18) not charity they are to give as individuals. SEDEK is an unusual word because it is more or less a general sense of doing what is right, being right or being in the right. It can refer to actions of kings, weights and measures, speech, being vindicated, being pure, being unblemished and so forth. If pairing is important, it's also very commonly paired with (juxtaposed against) wickedness or sin.

With regard to social justice, we often hear about the Jubilee year and the guidance. If those who used the Jubilee year to justify their views on Social Justice and claims that it is biblical actually read the entirety of the instructions for Jubilee (Leviticus 25:8-55), they would probably think better of using that particular justification.

Ultimately, the Bible doesn't really possess the common modern idea of Social Justice, unless by that you mean the Tribe of Israel condemned and fought against and subdued other tribes, because of their ethnicity and religion, and redistributed those tribes' wealth to themselves by use of force of arms (government). Social Justice is tribalism. It is group justice that expressly denies the individual as an image of God. It has nothing to do with MISHPAT or SEDEK or even HESED. A just society is a society filled with voluntary charitable institutions and a government that doesn't pervert justice by showing favoritism to one group or another, but rather holding to extraordinarily strict equality under the law.

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/83392/replies/2078923

---

---

Bubbadog was suddenly and unjustly permanently banned from here, apparently because the moderators are thin-skinned and can't take criticism.

So I'm passing on what he wanted to say in response to Golem, I, II, III Canon:

"Of course, justice and righteousness aren't the same thing. What I claim is that they are inextricably connected to each other. That's why they are so often paired. Like thunder and lightning, which also aren't identical. Where there is lightning, there will be thunder. Where there is no justice, there is no being right with God.

"Golem, this is basic. Why are you so intent on denying the truth of the Bible? Because you fear its implication for our own society?"

I agree with Bubba 100%.

I would add that the quote above takes a modern laissez faire approach and imposes it on the scriptures. First, you can't take laws addressed to monarchies and apply them to democracies. Second, the laws in relation to gleaning, etc., shows that interest in helping the poor goes far beyond not oppressing. Third, even applying the calls to not oppress the poor would be transformative for our country.

---

What on earth did he say? He's one of the most level-headed thoughtful posters you can find.

---

Not sure. They never tell you when they ban you. And when you ask them why, you get no reply.

The only thing I can figure is that it was his statement was that if people read the posts on this site, they would think Christianity was a mean and hateful religion. I've seen other people post much worse.

Maybe Brian, Ashley, or someone in charge can jump in here and tell us why this happened to a person who was never abusive to anyone.

Or at least they could do the simple courtesy of letting people know why they were banned.

---

Maybe someone clicked on the wrong user by accident.

---

Maybe.

---

I'll help out here in case it was a mixup... Canon is spelled C-a-n-o-n.

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You are not helping your case with the histrionics.

Grow up or at least recognize your behavior dissolves your cred.

---

George Truett said:

---

Canon said:

---

BearN said:

---

saykay said:

---

Canon said:

---

If someone (anyone) decides to take the time to wade through the incoherent word salad above, I'd appreciate both an English interpretation and an executive summary. Thanks in advance.

---

Since you're 'new' here, I'm generous with my 'first one is free' copy/pastes of an exact excerpt:

The social condition of people is often mentioned in the Bible. For example, the book of Leviticus is all about the law, the right, fair, just living/existence amongst all people on earth. The Bible speaks out against 'corrupt scales' in the market/economy, exploiting the poor by charging exorbitant interest rates/usury, acquiring multiple properties at the expense of the poor/unjust housing, exploiting widows and orphans i.e. misuse of power, welcoming immigrants & treating them well, paying day laborers fairly & quickly and the list goes on, and treating others with love and grace above all else, just to name a few of our responsibilities in the short 80+ years or so we spend on this earth.

So, if the Bible is true, social justice, equality and our role in addressing it, in fact are a concern to God (Hat tip: OldBear & others still questioning that Biblical reference).

And for those not yet convinced, Jesus cared as much as God instructed us to on earth in his reality... He healed people, fed people, embraced the outcast & crossed racial / ethnic barriers, AND he defended women & children in a culture in a time when that was even less popular to do so than it is today on the free boards.

---

Tying this back to a few posts above, on your prompting, I've been reading thru Leviticus looking for the part where God commands Moses to include healthcare benefits to homosexual spouses for the Children of Israel. Can you tell me what chapter that is in? I only see a few references to homosexuals in Leviticus, but they don't address this topic specifically.

---

It's enjoyable to see someone with so little to add parroting the arguments they have heard from someone else parroting another person, still. None of them ever reaching an analysis more thoughtful than a puddle at a men's urinal.

These topics have been covered here recently and the twisted left wing vision of 'social justice' has been soundly and roundly dispensed with. As copy and paste is the order of the day...

Quote:

---

Justice (MISHPAT or MISPAT) and Righteousness (SEDEK or TZEDAKAH or TSEDEQ) are paired so often in the bible precisely because they are not the same thing. Justice is most often a judicial/legal/procedural concept within the Bible, related most often to getting what one deserves. Where it references the poor, it is nearly always referring to equality under that law and delivered as prohibitions on oppression of same. Justice toward the poor as conceived of in the Bible is a negative obligation to not oppress, which includes equal treatment under the law and equal treatment with regard to things like delivering wages on time and so forth. That doesn't differ from the English concept of justice and it doesn't include government-imposed wealth redistribution.

Where charitable giving is prescribed, it's generally under the rubric of Righteousness (SEDEK) or Mercy (HESED) as in Micah 6:8. In any charitable sense, MISHPAT is really only used when referring to what God did for the Hebrews (Deut 10:18) not charity they are to give as individuals. SEDEK is an unusual word because it is more or less a general sense of doing what is right, being right or being in the right. It can refer to actions of kings, weights and measures, speech, being vindicated, being pure, being unblemished and so forth. If pairing is important, it's also very commonly paired with (juxtaposed against) wickedness or sin.

With regard to social justice, we often hear about the Jubilee year and the guidance. If those who used the Jubilee year to justify their views on Social Justice and claims that it is biblical actually read the entirety of the instructions for Jubilee (Leviticus 25:8-55), they would probably think better of using that particular justification.

Ultimately, the Bible doesn't really possess the common modern idea of Social Justice, unless by that you mean the Tribe of Israel condemned and fought against and subdued other tribes, because of their ethnicity and religion, and redistributed those tribes' wealth to themselves by use of force of arms (government). Social Justice is tribalism. It is group justice that expressly denies the individual as an image of God. It has nothing to do with MISHPAT or SEDEK or even HESED. A just society is a society filled with voluntary charitable institutions and a government that doesn't pervert justice by showing favoritism to one group or another, but rather holding to extraordinarily strict equality under the law.

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/83392/replies/2078923

---

---

I would add that the quote above takes a modern laissez faire approach and imposes it on the scriptures.

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You are not helping your case with the histrionics.

Grow up or at least recognize your behavior dissolves your cred.

---

Is this addressed to me or Bubba?

If it's about me, I didn't think I had any cred left to dissolve!

LOL.

So seriously, you think Bubba deserved a permanent ban for that post?

---

Look in the upper right corner. You know, where my post reads "in response to saykay"?

Regarding the ban, I know and like Bubba, so I don't think he earned a ban, even a time out, unless he said something obscene or completely out of his character.

As for you George, you strike me as the progressive version of Florda (btw has he been banned? have not read a post of his in some time) - you use posts like drive-by ammo. Not useful IMO but I can understand the desire to flame away sometimes.

---

George Truett said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

George Truett said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Canon said:

---

BearN said:

---

saykay said:

---

Canon said:

---

If someone (anyone) decides to take the time to wade through the incoherent word salad above, I'd appreciate both an English interpretation and an executive summary. Thanks in advance.

---

Since you're 'new' here, I'm generous with my 'first one is free' copy/pastes of an exact excerpt:

The social condition of people is often mentioned in the Bible. For example, the book of Leviticus is all about the law, the right, fair, just living/existence amongst all people on earth. The Bible speaks out against 'corrupt scales' in the market/economy, exploiting the poor by charging exorbitant interest rates/usury, acquiring multiple properties at the expense of the poor/unjust housing, exploiting widows and orphans i.e. misuse of power, welcoming immigrants & treating them well, paying day laborers fairly & quickly and the list goes on, and treating others with love and grace above all else, just to name a few of our responsibilities in the short 80+ years or so we spend on this earth.

So, if the Bible is true, social justice, equality and our role in addressing it, in fact are a concern to God (Hat tip: OldBear & others still questioning that Biblical reference).

And for those not yet convinced, Jesus cared as much as God instructed us to on earth in his reality... He healed people, fed people, embraced the outcast & crossed racial / ethnic barriers, AND he defended women & children in a culture in a time when that was even less popular to do so than it is today on the free boards.

---

Tying this back to a few posts above, on your prompting, I've been reading thru Leviticus looking for the part where God commands Moses to include healthcare benefits to homosexual spouses for the Children of Israel. Can you tell me what chapter that is in? I only see a few references to homosexuals in Leviticus, but they don't address this topic specifically.

---

It's enjoyable to see someone with so little to add parroting the arguments they have heard from someone else parroting another person, still. None of them ever reaching an analysis more thoughtful than a puddle at a men's urinal.

These topics have been covered here recently and the twisted left wing vision of 'social justice' has been soundly and roundly dispensed with. As copy and paste is the order of the day...

Quote:

---

Justice (MISHPAT or MISPAT) and Righteousness (SEDEK or TZEDAKAH or TSEDEQ) are paired so often in the bible precisely because they are not the same thing. Justice is most often a judicial/legal/procedural concept within the Bible, related most often to getting what one deserves. Where it references the poor, it is nearly always referring to equality under that law and delivered as prohibitions on oppression of same. Justice toward the poor as conceived of in the Bible is a negative obligation to not oppress, which includes equal treatment under the law and equal treatment with regard to things like delivering wages on time and so forth. That doesn't differ from the English concept of justice and it doesn't include government-imposed wealth redistribution.

Where charitable giving is prescribed, it's generally under the rubric of Righteousness (SEDEK) or Mercy (HESED) as in Micah 6:8. In any charitable sense, MISHPAT is really only used when referring to what God did for the Hebrews (Deut 10:18) not charity they are to give as individuals. SEDEK is an unusual word because it is more or less a general sense of doing what is right, being right or being in the right. It can refer to actions of kings, weights and measures, speech, being vindicated, being pure, being unblemished and so forth. If pairing is important, it's also very commonly paired with (juxtaposed against) wickedness or sin.

With regard to social justice, we often hear about the Jubilee year and the guidance. If those who used the Jubilee year to justify their views on Social Justice and claims that it is biblical actually read the entirety of the instructions for Jubilee (Leviticus 25:8-55), they would probably think better of using that particular justification.

Ultimately, the Bible doesn't really possess the common modern idea of Social Justice, unless by that you mean the Tribe of Israel condemned and fought against and subdued other tribes, because of their ethnicity and religion, and redistributed those tribes' wealth to themselves by use of force of arms (government). Social Justice is tribalism. It is group justice that expressly denies the individual as an image of God. It has nothing to do with MISHPAT or SEDEK or even HESED. A just society is a society filled with voluntary charitable institutions and a government that doesn't pervert justice by showing favoritism to one group or another, but rather holding to extraordinarily strict equality under the law.

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/83392/replies/2078923

---

---

Bubbadog was suddenly and unjustly permanently banned from here, apparently because the moderators are thin-skinned and can't take criticism.

So I'm passing on what he wanted to say in response to Golem, I, II, III Canon:

"Of course, justice and righteousness aren't the same thing. What I claim is that they are inextricably connected to each other. That's why they are so often paired. Like thunder and lightning, which also aren't identical. Where there is lightning, there will be thunder. Where there is no justice, there is no being right with God.

"Golem, this is basic. Why are you so intent on denying the truth of the Bible? Because you fear its implication for our own society?"

I agree with Bubba 100%.

I would add that the quote above takes a modern laissez faire approach and imposes it on the scriptures. First, you can't take laws addressed to monarchies and apply them to democracies. Second, the laws in relation to gleaning, etc., shows that interest in helping the poor goes far beyond not oppressing. Third, even applying the calls to not oppress the poor would be transformative for our country.

---

What on earth did he say? He's one of the most level-headed thoughtful posters you can find.

---

Not sure. They never tell you when they ban you. And when you ask them why, you get no reply.

The only thing I can figure is that it was his statement was that if people read the posts on this site, they would think Christianity was a mean and hateful religion. I've seen other people post much worse.

Maybe Brian, Ashley, or someone in charge can jump in here and tell us why this happened to a person who was never abusive to anyone.

Or at least they could do the simple courtesy of letting people know why they were banned.

---

Maybe someone clicked on the wrong user by accident.

---

Maybe.

---

Canon said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Canon said:

---

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what the evidence or even the jury thinks, really. There's enough promised violence and tacit guarantees that a juror who doesn't vote guilty will be destroyed, that the verdict was likely guilty before the trial ever began.

---

Yeah when you murder a guy in front of a crowd, on video tape, and the entire world sees it/gets mad about it, it's probably really hard to get a fair trial. I can sympathize with that. Chauvin is the real victim here, imo. Maybe we could find a technologically illiterate island tribe in the Caribbean to show the video to, I'm sure they'd vote not guilty.

---

You might try responding to the post that was made rather than the post you made up.

---

Canon said:

---

saykay said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Again, abandoning all pretense of courtesy is a detriment, not a success.

---

How should we frame up the abandonment on the pretense of courtesy when it comes to equating my value as a person to a puddle of piss? What scale exactly do you rate that on... Ounces? Distance from Canon's belt to the urinal? Pee stream velocity? Lots of options here.

But I wasn't a math major. Help this ignorant little lady liar out. You'd think I was coached by Mulkey or something.

---

You might start by not lying. It's a good place to start.

Canon said:

---

It's enjoyable to see someone with so little to add parroting the arguments they have heard from someone else parroting another person, still. None of them ever reaching an analysis more thoughtful than a puddle at a men's urinal.

---

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

George Truett said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

George Truett said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Canon said:

---

BearN said:

---

saykay said:

---

Canon said:

---

If someone (anyone) decides to take the time to wade through the incoherent word salad above, I'd appreciate both an English interpretation and an executive summary. Thanks in advance.

---

Since you're 'new' here, I'm generous with my 'first one is free' copy/pastes of an exact excerpt:

The social condition of people is often mentioned in the Bible. For example, the book of Leviticus is all about the law, the right, fair, just living/existence amongst all people on earth. The Bible speaks out against 'corrupt scales' in the market/economy, exploiting the poor by charging exorbitant interest rates/usury, acquiring multiple properties at the expense of the poor/unjust housing, exploiting widows and orphans i.e. misuse of power, welcoming immigrants & treating them well, paying day laborers fairly & quickly and the list goes on, and treating others with love and grace above all else, just to name a few of our responsibilities in the short 80+ years or so we spend on this earth.

So, if the Bible is true, social justice, equality and our role in addressing it, in fact are a concern to God (Hat tip: OldBear & others still questioning that Biblical reference).

And for those not yet convinced, Jesus cared as much as God instructed us to on earth in his reality... He healed people, fed people, embraced the outcast & crossed racial / ethnic barriers, AND he defended women & children in a culture in a time when that was even less popular to do so than it is today on the free boards.

---

Tying this back to a few posts above, on your prompting, I've been reading thru Leviticus looking for the part where God commands Moses to include healthcare benefits to homosexual spouses for the Children of Israel. Can you tell me what chapter that is in? I only see a few references to homosexuals in Leviticus, but they don't address this topic specifically.

---

It's enjoyable to see someone with so little to add parroting the arguments they have heard from someone else parroting another person, still. None of them ever reaching an analysis more thoughtful than a puddle at a men's urinal.

These topics have been covered here recently and the twisted left wing vision of 'social justice' has been soundly and roundly dispensed with. As copy and paste is the order of the day...

Quote:

---

Justice (MISHPAT or MISPAT) and Righteousness (SEDEK or TZEDAKAH or TSEDEQ) are paired so often in the bible precisely because they are not the same thing. Justice is most often a judicial/legal/procedural concept within the Bible, related most often to getting what one deserves. Where it references the poor, it is nearly always referring to equality under that law and delivered as prohibitions on oppression of same. Justice toward the poor as conceived of in the Bible is a negative obligation to not oppress, which includes equal treatment under the law and equal treatment with regard to things like delivering wages on time and so forth. That doesn't differ from the English concept of justice and it doesn't include government-imposed wealth redistribution.

Where charitable giving is prescribed, it's generally under the rubric of Righteousness (SEDEK) or Mercy (HESED) as in Micah 6:8. In any charitable sense, MISHPAT is really only used when referring to what God did for the Hebrews (Deut 10:18) not charity they are to give as individuals. SEDEK is an unusual word because it is more or less a general sense of doing what is right, being right or being in the right. It can refer to actions of kings, weights and measures, speech, being vindicated, being pure, being unblemished and so forth. If pairing is important, it's also very commonly paired with (juxtaposed against) wickedness or sin.

With regard to social justice, we often hear about the Jubilee year and the guidance. If those who used the Jubilee year to justify their views on Social Justice and claims that it is biblical actually read the entirety of the instructions for Jubilee (Leviticus 25:8-55), they would probably think better of using that particular justification.

Ultimately, the Bible doesn't really possess the common modern idea of Social Justice, unless by that you mean the Tribe of Israel condemned and fought against and subdued other tribes, because of their ethnicity and religion, and redistributed those tribes' wealth to themselves by use of force of arms (government). Social Justice is tribalism. It is group justice that expressly denies the individual as an image of God. It has nothing to do with MISHPAT or SEDEK or even HESED. A just society is a society filled with voluntary charitable institutions and a government that doesn't pervert justice by showing favoritism to one group or another, but rather holding to extraordinarily strict equality under the law.

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/83392/replies/2078923

---

---

Bubbadog was suddenly and unjustly permanently banned from here, apparently because the moderators are thin-skinned and can't take criticism.

So I'm passing on what he wanted to say in response to Golem, I, II, III Canon:

"Of course, justice and righteousness aren't the same thing. What I claim is that they are inextricably connected to each other. That's why they are so often paired. Like thunder and lightning, which also aren't identical. Where there is lightning, there will be thunder. Where there is no justice, there is no being right with God.

"Golem, this is basic. Why are you so intent on denying the truth of the Bible? Because you fear its implication for our own society?"

I agree with Bubba 100%.

I would add that the quote above takes a modern laissez faire approach and imposes it on the scriptures. First, you can't take laws addressed to monarchies and apply them to democracies. Second, the laws in relation to gleaning, etc., shows that interest in helping the poor goes far beyond not oppressing. Third, even applying the calls to not oppress the poor would be transformative for our country.

---

What on earth did he say? He's one of the most level-headed thoughtful posters you can find.

---

Not sure. They never tell you when they ban you. And when you ask them why, you get no reply.

The only thing I can figure is that it was his statement was that if people read the posts on this site, they would think Christianity was a mean and hateful religion. I've seen other people post much worse.

Maybe Brian, Ashley, or someone in charge can jump in here and tell us why this happened to a person who was never abusive to anyone.

Or at least they could do the simple courtesy of letting people know why they were banned.

---

Maybe someone clicked on the wrong user by accident.

---

Maybe.

---

Petition to get bubba back. He is very reasonable.

---

Good idea, any idea how we can go about that?

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

George Truett said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

George Truett said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

George Truett said:

---

Canon said:

---

BearN said:

---

saykay said:

---

Canon said:

---

If someone (anyone) decides to take the time to wade through the incoherent word salad above, I'd appreciate both an English interpretation and an executive summary. Thanks in advance.

---

Since you're 'new' here, I'm generous with my 'first one is free' copy/pastes of an exact excerpt:

The social condition of people is often mentioned in the Bible. For example, the book of Leviticus is all about the law, the right, fair, just living/existence amongst all people on earth. The Bible speaks out against 'corrupt scales' in the market/economy, exploiting the poor by charging exorbitant interest rates/usury, acquiring multiple properties at the expense of the poor/unjust housing, exploiting widows and orphans i.e. misuse of power, welcoming immigrants & treating them well, paying day laborers fairly & quickly and the list goes on, and treating others with love and grace above all else, just to name a few of our responsibilities in the short 80+ years or so we spend on this earth.

So, if the Bible is true, social justice, equality and our role in addressing it, in fact are a concern to God (Hat tip: OldBear & others still questioning that Biblical reference).

And for those not yet convinced, Jesus cared as much as God instructed us to on earth in his reality... He healed people, fed people, embraced the outcast & crossed racial / ethnic barriers, AND he defended women & children in a culture in a time when that was even less popular to do so than it is today on the free boards.

---

Tying this back to a few posts above, on your prompting, I've been reading thru Leviticus looking for the part where God commands Moses to include healthcare benefits to homosexual spouses for the Children of Israel. Can you tell me what chapter that is in? I only see a few references to homosexuals in Leviticus, but they don't address this topic specifically.

---

It's enjoyable to see someone with so little to add parroting the arguments they have heard from someone else parroting another person, still. None of them ever reaching an analysis more thoughtful than a puddle at a men's urinal.

These topics have been covered here recently and the twisted left wing vision of 'social justice' has been soundly and roundly dispensed with. As copy and paste is the order of the day...

Quote:

---

Justice (MISHPAT or MISPAT) and Righteousness (SEDEK or TZEDAKAH or TSEDEQ) are paired so often in the bible precisely because they are not the same thing. Justice is most often a judicial/legal/procedural concept within the Bible, related most often to getting what one deserves. Where it references the poor, it is nearly always referring to equality under that law and delivered as prohibitions on oppression of same. Justice toward the poor as conceived of in the Bible is a negative obligation to not oppress, which includes equal treatment under the law and equal treatment with regard to things like delivering wages on time and so forth. That doesn't differ from the English concept of justice and it doesn't include government-imposed wealth redistribution.

Where charitable giving is prescribed, it's generally under the rubric of Righteousness (SEDEK) or Mercy (HESED) as in Micah 6:8. In any charitable sense, MISHPAT is really only used when referring to what God did for the Hebrews (Deut 10:18) not charity they are to give as individuals. SEDEK is an unusual word because it is more or less a general sense of doing what is right, being right or being in the right. It can refer to actions of kings, weights and measures, speech, being vindicated, being pure, being unblemished and so forth. If pairing is important, it's also very commonly paired with (juxtaposed against) wickedness or sin.

With regard to social justice, we often hear about the Jubilee year and the guidance. If those who used the Jubilee year to justify their views on Social Justice and claims that it is biblical actually read the entirety of the instructions for Jubilee (Leviticus 25:8-55), they would probably think better of using that particular justification.

Ultimately, the Bible doesn't really possess the common modern idea of Social Justice, unless by that you mean the Tribe of Israel condemned and fought against and subdued other tribes, because of their ethnicity and religion, and redistributed those tribes' wealth to themselves by use of force of arms (government). Social Justice is tribalism. It is group justice that expressly denies the individual as an image of God. It has nothing to do with MISHPAT or SEDEK or even HESED. A just society is a society filled with voluntary charitable institutions and a government that doesn't pervert justice by showing favoritism to one group or another, but rather holding to extraordinarily strict equality under the law.

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/83392/replies/2078923

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Bubbadog was suddenly and unjustly permanently banned from here, apparently because the moderators are thin-skinned and can't take criticism.

So I'm passing on what he wanted to say in response to Golem, I, II, III Canon:

"Of course, justice and righteousness aren't the same thing. What I claim is that they are inextricably connected to each other. That's why they are so often paired. Like thunder and lightning, which also aren't identical. Where there is lightning, there will be thunder. Where there is no justice, there is no being right with God.

"Golem, this is basic. Why are you so intent on denying the truth of the Bible? Because you fear its implication for our own society?"

I agree with Bubba 100%.

I would add that the quote above takes a modern laissez faire approach and imposes it on the scriptures. First, you can't take laws addressed to monarchies and apply them to democracies. Second, the laws in relation to gleaning, etc., shows that interest in helping the poor goes far beyond not oppressing. Third, even applying the calls to not oppress the poor would be transformative for our country.

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What on earth did he say? He's one of the most level-headed thoughtful posters you can find.

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Not sure. They never tell you when they ban you. And when you ask them why, you get no reply.

The only thing I can figure is that it was his statement was that if people read the posts on this site, they would think Christianity was a mean and hateful religion. I've seen other people post much worse.

Maybe Brian, Ashley, or someone in charge can jump in here and tell us why this happened to a person who was never abusive to anyone.

Or at least they could do the simple courtesy of letting people know why they were banned.

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Maybe someone clicked on the wrong user by accident.

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Maybe.

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Petition to get bubba back. He is very reasonable.

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Good idea, any idea how we can go about that?

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I guess someone could start a new thread and use that thread for people to chime in and give a vote of approval for Bubba.

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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saykay said:

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Canon said:

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saykay said:

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Canon said:

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saykay said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Again, abandoning all pretense of courtesy is a detriment, not a success.

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How should we frame up the abandonment on the pretense of courtesy when it comes to equating my value as a person to a puddle of piss? What scale exactly do you rate that on... Ounces? Distance from Canon's belt to the urinal? Pee stream velocity? Lots of options here.

But I wasn't a math major. Help this ignorant little lady liar out. You'd think I was coached by Mulkey or something.

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You might start by not lying. It's a good place to start.

Canon said:

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It's enjoyable to see someone with so little to add parroting the arguments they have heard from someone else parroting another person, still. None of them ever reaching an analysis more thoughtful than a puddle at a men's urinal.

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Please remind me what I lied about, along with supporting evidence or knowledge you have of that to be making that accusation? And if none exists, what other variables should warrant or justify your word being more valid, true or believable than mine, please kind sir and brother in Christ?

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You aren't this obtuse. No one is. Your blatant lie and the evidence of your blatant lie is all in the post you quoted. It's all in coherent, standard English. (My part at least) Your weak attempts at deflection are unbecoming of an adult.

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Canon, I'm for real here - I have NO CLUE what you're referring to. Can someone else translate in Golem-speak what he's talking about - what post - what lie - I legit don't know. Spell it out. Copy/paste. Hell, you can even chisel it into a commandment or fire up Florida Mike's Speak & Spell.

Just explicitly SPELL-IT-OUT please if you really want to have "thoughtful intellectual sparring" you said you most welcome.

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He gave you the quotation that referenced what he was talking about, in his last post. The puddle of urine insult was in reference to the quality of your analysis, not your value as a person, which you accused him of saying.

If you would just quiet your spirit, maybe you could have just looked back and figured it out, instead of busying yourself posting a flurry of comments with what I can only describe as a nauseating, self-important style of writing. I mean, sheesh, if I wanted to read such pseudointellectual, pretentious fluff I'll go read the New Yorker.

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